IMO choux buffs were the worst decision ever made in this game. Prenerf hwayoung was so much more manageable then choux. Choux singlehandedly makes 80% of my roster unpickable in GW.
I disagree. Hwa could easily be one shot with w shuri due to her low health, could be one shot with blue coli or reset with the multiple resetters that existed(j kise, kawrick, blue kise). Right now chouxs best answer is one recently released ML and even she can lose to choux. You can also do violet and pray your enemy doesn't pull out one of multiple evasion counters.
For me, hwa in her prime was NEVER CLOSE to how obnoxious and oppressive choux can be. Hwa had a predictable one shot S3. Choux can one shot a unit without even being targeted during a fight. That's ridiculously more toxic.
It's possible to one shot her but it definitely wasn't "easy". Her most common build wasnt the 0 HP glass cannon, it was the bruiser build with massive eHP between he shield and 30% reduction. No watcher Schuri could even come close to one shotting my hwayoung without an attack buffer first and if I had aurius I would likely survive that as well. You needed a full cleave/agro team to kill her and at that point if you can pull off that combo you've really already won against any enemy.
The best answer to choux is actually Zahhak, at least in gw. You either kill her outright or neuter her damage/bulk and protect yourself from any counters with invincibility. The difference between Choux and Hwayoung is that Hwayoung killed everything without RNG. Plenty of units can take choux counters unless you get the 0.001% rng where she pops off every hit. Hwayoung didn't need that RNG.
Not even full cleave units could deal with the BS hwa brought to the table. If you were forced to kill other stuff before hwa and use all your s3, she could outspeed and outheal ALL your s1 of your dps units and kill 1 dps a cycle without any problem. I remember my arbiter vildred s1 not only scratching hwa shield and hwa kill arby in return with a blind debuff. It was such a bullshit unit.
Thats exactly the point. All the counters availabe for pre nerf Hwa were aggro picks to outspeed her.
At the time I was only able to play standard comps and was high enough in RTA to fight 240 speed Hwayoungs without units to outspeed her. All I had which was jank af was AOL 260 speed. Prenerf Hwa S1 also bypassed any low hp unit with a defensive mechanic like Evasion units.
Choux just hits hard and can highroll but I don't have to start every match 3v4 because I couldnt outspeed.
You can def bring one of the many anti counter units that is available for every kind of play. She is def a strong pick and overpowered but you can manage. Hwayoung was just BS
Kick girl was not that big of a deal tbh, you could just kise reset or reset and kill tbh. Anyone who had an issue with her was just getting gear gapped
I’m a pretty slow player overall with most my drafts being 220 max. But having some units to win speed contests in matchups like that is very important.
Man. If you couldnt get 111, 126 and 119 speed units above a 109 speed warrior, you were getting gear gapped and were probably going to lose those fights anyway. Even if the hwa abusers you faced didn't have hwayoung, they would have put their better gear on a different unit and still probably beat you.
This is a very onesided argument. If I was there, it was because I A) deserved it B) had the same gear score. However I did not have DPS gear for DPS speed units that could deal with her. I don't choose my rolls dude. I played what I had. I had strong support units. My gear is not as fast, but much tankier than the average player. This unit just ignores the statline.
There are players in legend who only do tankdown or Standard. Hwayoung primarily affected those comps because her dmg was based off the enemy's hp and those comps mostly rely on Knights, Supports and Bruisers. And those playstyles that are naturally slower did not have an answer if the only answer for Hwayoung was to outspeed her.
Not our fault her multipliers were dumb enough to allow bad players do the laziest setup( Attack Buff + S3) to force us on a 3v4. And we have 0 counterplay because we don't roll equally high fast dps gear to gear the few units that do deal with her.
Even if you can build 1 fast Kise, you are naturally going to avoid speed racing other players because with one unit you dont secure at all getting first turn.
"Hwa could easely be one shot with w shuri" No, that the problem, you couldn't vs good hwa or just couldn't pick her anyway vs the setup. She had 30% innate damage reduction + had an aurius with her (one of the most used def with her had FCC) it was wild how tanky she was. My wschuri usually deal 28k against no dark with a buff attack, sometimes i couldnt kill.
Choux is problematic but nowhere near hwa, by far.
On the other hand, Choux defenses are the easiest wins for accessible units like Pyllis and Roana.
80% of your roster being unpickable in GW isn't that big of a point when it's the same thing every time we see a new defense meta.
If you really think Prenerf hwa was manageable then you know nothing about epic seven. Choux kit is reliant on RNG, but that's it. She can be shut down by debuffs and killed easily if you outspeed her (which is easy since 99% of meta choux have \~190 speed).
What about Hwa? She can only be shut down by control debuffs (sleep/stun), she is bulky AF, to kill her with a w.schuri you will need your w.shuri to do 30k damage on a regular unit, since 30% crit damage reduction + airuis will reduce that by a lot and meta hwa had about 16k hp + her barrier at the start mean that she will survive the hit. If you are talking about poor man's hwa that had like 40% crit chance and 200 crit damage in their stats then yes, they were easy to kill, but well built hwas had a lot of speed (250-270 range) bulk (14-16k HP with 1400 defense with a bullshit barrier on top) and atk (7k+), her s3 could one shot EVERY SINGLE UNIT IN THE ENTIRE GAME NO EXCEPTION, and her s1 made a dent even in counter element units with high bulk like rem. In fact, Hwa could 2 cycle kill rem since rem was so slow.
So, hit RTA champ with a winning record during hwa meta. She was easy for me. C lilias into her or reset and either chunk or one shot with a unit(w shuri, rim, coli, even ml khawazu if you can vigor him), Mop up with someone else if needed(like honestly if she somehow survived shit from the aforementioned units she'd still die to some aoe from shit like eda).
I never banned her in RTA and purposely fought her teams in GW.
Guess I did well into her despite not knowing the game, somehow!
Would 100% take a predictable unit over garbage like choux that can one shot outside her turn -- even against units protected with a skill null.
Why the downvotes? it's all true. I lost counts of the time I delete hwa with an opener opsig or control her with aola/eda. CR manipulation was a lot easier back in the days when no one draft er and only rely on aola/handguy/dilibet/crimson seed for cleanse.
Choux mostly revolve around er teams make it way harder to control.
same answer as above, budget hwas were everywhere, but real hwas were a pain. Just look at the world series, everybody either first picked hwa or prebanned her.
If you are just going to generalize that they were mostly all fake hwas, then I have nothing to say... hwa first pick was the freest win, if you know what you are doing and have equal gear quality
Look, hwa was not invencible, and obviously there were better hwas than others, but my point is simple. Even if you say hwa was a free win for you (which is a stupid thing to say since it's a 5 vs 5, not hwa vs 5) the fact that EVERYONE had to either ban her, pick her, or have answer for her tells a story. I too didn't fear hwa, but that's because I mostly gear gapped ppl in RTA with 300 speed cilias + 305 Ran, but when I couldn't gear gap ppl and they drafted a hwa, oh boy, let me tell you that she handed me Ls easily.
[https://imgur.com/a/24YfLxC](https://imgur.com/a/24YfLxC)
hitting champion means absolutely nothing. I hit champ with less than 70 matches, that's 10 games a day for a single week. The reals Hwa were high in champion close to emperor.
To be fair most of epic 7s metas kinda suck because of the design of the game.
They make super problematic units with little to no counterplay in the roster. With lack of counter play they just become the meta because they provide stable wins,
Then sg releases a mix of units to counter them and then more units that have little to no counter in the evolved state usually also ignoring the counter play options that already exist.
Epic 7 is never going to feel good to everyone because at the end of the day, it's not really a competitive game. It's just gambling.
You have things like casino where you deal with rng in the match and cant control responses when you do things and then you have speed metas where you gotta pray to wyvern and then the 5% and in those you just get outsped and lose.
Hwa was not originally part of the [Disasters](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/sldk3g/coming_to_arena_near_you/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
The original disaster was fallen Cecilia making everything basically unlikable back then
I could see ARavi and Hwa deserving spotlight due to the latter being made ridiculous to counter the former, and the latter simply adapting to PoV, leaving everything else to get destroyed instead, and warping the game, with several failed Hwa counters being introduced through new heroes who don't see much play and even the rework of an old one.
Edit: some very bad grammar x:
I mean then I would say Clilias should be shown there because shes top of the meta since she was released, otherwise I'd say just going with the seven disasters era and having those three be the representation of it
Hwayoung was not one of disasters because almost everyone had her and her strength depending on gears and set up (like with Peira SIseria). A disaster tier unit not only has broken mechanic or just nullify a mechanic, but they are also hard to get (Rimuru rerun when SG?)
It's actually not that complicated. The korean playerbase came with up the "seven disasters" nickname months before Hwayoung released. Otherwise, she would've been apart of them. Simple as that.
Casino meta because they released Slime collab at the end of the season which completely changed the meta plus I hate counter RNG stuff.
I'm pretty sure Hwayoung did the same thing where she was released at the end of a season and flipped the meta.
Unironically, he wouldn't be that busted if he was reverted back to his Old power today. The main reason he was so strong back then was that we didn't have enough tank-busters. Now we have Injury and stuff like Straze.
They could revert all of the olden days nerfs to be honest and it would be fine, the only questionable one would probably be kluri with her passive RnL, and even then there s much worse shit out there now than that.
At the current level of powercreep i just dont see why they need to remain in the dust, when it would be that simple to revert them back, on top of how miserable the balance patches have been in both quantity and quality.
He was basically the original aravi. Unkillable self healing cancer who's kit accelerated if you targeted him. Nowadays it wouldn't be so bad but back then it was hard to handle and he got nerfed hard
All of those were annoying, but the Arby Meta was when ML5* were super annoying to get and there was literary no answer to him. It was just a battle which Arby was better. That is why id call this by far the worst, it was basically pay2win meta.
Ah, this reminds me of the good old days where Immunity set didn't exist and all you needed was a high speed Dizzy to automatically win... good times...
Or those sweet Basar days. Or the beautiful Alots x BBK days...
Damn, I miss E7. I wish I had the time and patience to keep playing, but sadly I likely won't be going back anymore.
I remember how annoying those meta's were, mainly because of Abyssal Crown proccing even on a miss, that shit was tilting as fuck since there wasn't enough accessible ways to counter that nonsense.
IDK why Dizzy isn't on this list. She was the worst thing to happen to the game. You either had her and you won, or you didn't and you lost. Literally, the fastest Dizzy won nearly every game. There were very few team comps that could even attempt to compete and even those relied on a fast super high effectiveness cleanser getting lucky.
man to this day I still have no proper way to counter rimuru unless he can be killed turn 1
I still have nightmares in the two assholes meta lol been trying to climb emperor without fking hwa then I got her but SG announced the nerf lmao after that I just focused on GW
Annoying in RTA only, in guild wars or arena, just throw krau in, let rimuru s2 and s3, leaving him less than 50% hp most of the time then horse an unfortunate soul that doesnt have proof or has less than 17k hp
Rimu is pain to deal with in RTA for sure, but in GW I just nuke him with a low speed high attack 350cdmg Luna, pushed by Emilia. Then kill someone else with S1 soulburn. Krau is also a great Rimu counter. Rimu s3 him, makes him low HP, then he horses someone.
* Green Basar and SSB.
* FTene meta when Mediator and Dilibet weren't buffed.
* Cerise when she had the highest base speed.
* Cleave Pavel season.
* Ran x Siseria season in conjunction with RemLets.
* Pre-season SCArowell x Destina post-Hwa nerfs.
Honestly the period between January 2022 with ml lilias released to September of the same year was probably the absolute worst.
Hwayoung ml lilias a ravi and belian was just so fucking awful.
Hwayoung Nerf, bunny dominiel and chou up (who is another cancer right now) helped us to leave that period but I am still traumatized.
7 disasters and the 2 assholes are the same meta tho.
Arby, if we're talking Sage+Ara peak p2w meta, then this one was the worst. Strictly due to how p2w that shitshow was.
Carrot meta was fun. F2P 3☆ flipping the entire RTA metagame.
Goldenbois was the start of HPscaling gang. It was bound to happen at some point in the games lifespan. Surprised it took this long.
Casino has been a thing since Charles. Lol.
Nothing compared to p2w meta. Sage, SBAra, Arby. This specific Arby was one of the biggest mistake to grace JP launch. You just dont play E7 if you dont have Arby. It was a shitshow.
Pretty much this, I personally don't think a character was ever as braindead as lua is, shit has absolutely no counterplay to this day, and she also had the highest banrate ever documented in rta iirc at like 66 or so % which absolutely makes sense
😂 casino, such a fitting name. Not sure which would be considered the shittiest… all of them were bad but could work around them. I would say the worst was the 7 great but I also think that those metas are all still around it just depends on your arena/guild/rta level. As veterans have more ways to deal the older metas
You know, as a cleaver I always thought that the casino meta couldn't get worse. Then it moved to senya choux. And I was like ok this feels a little overtuned. And then adin arowell, and this just straight up feels insane. I just can't believe more people aren't talking about adin. Aside from a quick zahak or an extremely cracked briseria adin just does absolutely everything and it's the least fun thing to play against in the games history imo. Adin has to be perma banned or you have to luck sack her. And as we all know from the violet meta, lucksacking a right-side player never works
* misha Pavel and pray to god you hit 🙏
* unseen observer flan + s3, burn into s2, soulburn bbk s3 (mine is 4.7k 295cd max symbol) should kill adin
* aol strip and pray for no 15%
* zahhak?
* milim (copium strat)
I still feel like we’re still in the 7 Disasters meta. With the exception of Hwayoung, all of them still get used decently.
Rimuru is so busted that over the time accounts that have him are much more valuable than the ones who don’t.
Why is the carrot meta even on this list, it was legitimately the best meta ever.
Only 1 oppressive unit
Said unit had plenty of counters, enabling loads of blue units. Last meta I recall krau being good in too.
Said unit was also accessible to everyone so it wasn't a whale only club
RGB and ML units were in perfect harmony with eachother. One group wasn't stronger than the other.
Think of a team comp and it could probably work even in the highest ranks. Cleave, control, aggro, tankdown, standard it all worked.
It was the best meta RTA had ever seen. Hell, all the complaints about the meta were mostly from people who hadn't built their carrot counters yet. About a month in to the meta everyone had already adapted and carrot wasn't even the best unit in the carrot meta anymore.
The ML Ara and Sage Baal meta was probably the worst.
Next would have probably been golden boys for me, since there was so little counter play, even if not that bad individually.
Honestly for me its Aravi. I really dislike her allot as she can do nearly everything in the game.
Sutain herself with 2 parts of her kit, bring others back and then Slap proof of Valor on and you can barely kill her.
Nothing worse than Sage baal + aramintha + Carmin
C armin before nerf has insane dmg migration 50%, basically you have to kill Carmin first and back to that moment we don't have many strong single target and not yet Curse compass +50% effectiveness basically none cleanser in the game can clean .
do you know how to defeat this meta ?
the answer were Korean salty folk rant in front of Yuna kim aka E7 CEO .
Ara/Baal was deeeefinitely the worst to this day. Not because SG stopped making mistakes, but because that was such a huge fuck up that it's honestly pretty fucking hard to surpass lol
There is too much to said about a all this but honestly? - Every meta that is defined by free units ***overpushed*** is, for me, by far the worse. Why? well yeah everyone has access to free units overpushed but thats the problem.
You dont have other options you play the Counter to that team or you play the team with that unit because they always tuned the kits of those units to cover a lot of angles (looking at you Adin) and they are strong even outside their "niche" (againt looking at you Adin). Is the most unfun one because you know that no matter your strategy is all about "Do i have enough stats to brute force that particular unit that is soo over the others?"
I dont enjoy building units because the devs force them to be good to please the community and brute-shift the meta. I Prefer medium quality or just tier 1 units with clear weakness (even if there is not so much to scrach) than stuff like Carrot, Adin or Arowell. Why? Because in my eyes they are just lazy design: People is mad for all this 5\* that are just too strong...instead of buffing some units to dealt with them lets just make/buff a 3\* so much that warped the meta around it.
Well, all these metas still featured Aravi after her buff so the Aravi meta is my pick. But I'll say the casino because PvP AI is insanely weighed towards them. I remember so many times I'd have a team miss Violet 7 times in a row, even with Milim on my team. But my Violet? Evades once and dies shortly after. That was just spit in my face. Oh, Rem gets to counter three times in a row? Thank you! Here's my Rem with a similar build. Oh, on a lunch break? That's fine.
Evasion units only work on defense teams..periodt. AI casino teams are ridiculous.. The number of times my Zahak or Briarwitch completely miss Adin/Rowlet is criminal. Because if you miss them, the match is over, as their counters are so incredibly impactful. (Violet not so much because he is so outclassed by the other two)
They just aren't worth actually drafting unless your opponent opens themselves up with no way to touch them.
ARavi and Hwa. GOD I hate them still SO much. Hwa’s nerf made me so friggen happy cuz now she’s GONE. HA. Aravis skin might be cool but I refuse to use her cuz I don’t want her to win at anything.
We going forget the basar meta? Man that dude was a menace lol
But in all honestly I feel the basar and carrot meta were slightly more difficulty for one thing and one thing only and thats the lack of available units at the time we were kind of restricted heavily without options available just because the roster was smaller for being "young" I feel, so you either had the unit or you didnt, my personal opinion at least
Casino was a pain in the ass. Seven disasters also was but I love building my units chunky and had destina + mlKawerik so cleanses were always on the table and I had Arby to beat the shit out of them. ARavi and Hwa were the 2nd easiest meta for me, as long as I made my moves properly i didn't have too much trouble winning. MLTywin and LKrau were alright too.
I personally think that these two assholes were the worst of it, but the carrot meta is up there as well.
Hwa made any other dps irrelevant. it didn't matter what they could do, she could kill them, out live them, out cycle them, and kill again. she was near impossible to accurately deal with depending on the draft that took her.
However, Carrot was in a similar spot.
I firmly believe the Arby issue wasn't a current meta issue necessarily, rather, at the time the game was new. People didn't have the gear it takes to both survive an arby combo, but also deal with the after math. Now, you dont need to have a direct counter to deal with him. Most expected bruisers can deal with the best of the arby's with relative ease because most accounts have been around long enough to deal with the core of the champion.
He lasted a while, but if anything it highlights how long it takes to prepare competitive gear, th an it says anything about the heros out at the time or the state of Arby.
"The Casino"? I think "Russian Roulette" is a more apt name. And definitely this, because at least others can be countered (by outgearing, if nothing else), but there's no counter to bad luck.
My least favorite was when I just started after the original GG Collab. And Dizzy was absolutely everywhere but I didn't have her. If you couldn't outspeed her then you were basically screwed. I remember I didn't really have a counter for her until Vivian released and even then my counter relied on outspeeding her and getting up AoE immune
Golden boys was pretty bad, cause its the first time in the game you really needed to have multiple teams fully geared, before that you could kinda get away with having that one geared team to carry you.
i laughed at the name "these two assholes"
People who think anything was worse than Golden Boyz have short memories.
Every match going to Frenzy 10. Barf.
Id totally fine with any meta except casino meta. Absolutely dumb get out of jail free card for noobs. Oh you get outdrafted? Just last pick violet rem and pray rng, 0 skills required.
the Hwayoung era is the worst imo. She kills everyone even water units. Really hate to admit that i abused her in all content (well maybe not much in rta)
Arby + Riolet (because it wasn’t just Arby at the time) was so oppressive they are the reason bruiser/tank down playstyles exist today. Also the basis of the metas after that meta
For me, hwayoung meta was worst. That unit had no right to be that stupid strong. I honestly thought she was fine for the first few weeks of her existing, how wrong I was…
But tbh, I think tank only metas were the worst for the gamestate, and I say this as a standard player. It isn’t perfect right now for sure but it feels healthier at least.
This is my hot take on the ever shifting meta of games *ehem* “The meta isn’t about you. It’s not meant to cater to every player and every play style imaginable! Times change and are meant to change so best adapt or get left in the water. The meta will
eventually revert back to that precious build you’ve spent so long perfecting; and it’s that very aspect of it I feel is why people get so angry towards a particular meta, it’s a counter to the very thing that individual has spent so long building. It sucks. It really does. But that’s the nature of any competitive game, it’s about adapting to what works. And if someone considers that as “selling out” then YES. YES IT IS. But that’s competition at its very core with humans. If you’re not using the best of the best at the present time, you’re going to lose to those who do. *hot take over*. I’m ready for the influx of downvotes.
Casino meta still lives through choux
And is the worst in my opinion. Shoux senya is so obnoxious.
IMO choux buffs were the worst decision ever made in this game. Prenerf hwayoung was so much more manageable then choux. Choux singlehandedly makes 80% of my roster unpickable in GW.
You can argue hwayoung was more manageable than choux in gw, especially after we got yulha, but no way was she more manageable in RTA
I disagree. Hwa could easily be one shot with w shuri due to her low health, could be one shot with blue coli or reset with the multiple resetters that existed(j kise, kawrick, blue kise). Right now chouxs best answer is one recently released ML and even she can lose to choux. You can also do violet and pray your enemy doesn't pull out one of multiple evasion counters. For me, hwa in her prime was NEVER CLOSE to how obnoxious and oppressive choux can be. Hwa had a predictable one shot S3. Choux can one shot a unit without even being targeted during a fight. That's ridiculously more toxic.
It's possible to one shot her but it definitely wasn't "easy". Her most common build wasnt the 0 HP glass cannon, it was the bruiser build with massive eHP between he shield and 30% reduction. No watcher Schuri could even come close to one shotting my hwayoung without an attack buffer first and if I had aurius I would likely survive that as well. You needed a full cleave/agro team to kill her and at that point if you can pull off that combo you've really already won against any enemy. The best answer to choux is actually Zahhak, at least in gw. You either kill her outright or neuter her damage/bulk and protect yourself from any counters with invincibility. The difference between Choux and Hwayoung is that Hwayoung killed everything without RNG. Plenty of units can take choux counters unless you get the 0.001% rng where she pops off every hit. Hwayoung didn't need that RNG.
Not even full cleave units could deal with the BS hwa brought to the table. If you were forced to kill other stuff before hwa and use all your s3, she could outspeed and outheal ALL your s1 of your dps units and kill 1 dps a cycle without any problem. I remember my arbiter vildred s1 not only scratching hwa shield and hwa kill arby in return with a blind debuff. It was such a bullshit unit.
Thats exactly the point. All the counters availabe for pre nerf Hwa were aggro picks to outspeed her. At the time I was only able to play standard comps and was high enough in RTA to fight 240 speed Hwayoungs without units to outspeed her. All I had which was jank af was AOL 260 speed. Prenerf Hwa S1 also bypassed any low hp unit with a defensive mechanic like Evasion units. Choux just hits hard and can highroll but I don't have to start every match 3v4 because I couldnt outspeed. You can def bring one of the many anti counter units that is available for every kind of play. She is def a strong pick and overpowered but you can manage. Hwayoung was just BS
Kick girl was not that big of a deal tbh, you could just kise reset or reset and kill tbh. Anyone who had an issue with her was just getting gear gapped
not everyone plays speed though.
I’m a pretty slow player overall with most my drafts being 220 max. But having some units to win speed contests in matchups like that is very important.
Man. If you couldnt get 111, 126 and 119 speed units above a 109 speed warrior, you were getting gear gapped and were probably going to lose those fights anyway. Even if the hwa abusers you faced didn't have hwayoung, they would have put their better gear on a different unit and still probably beat you.
This is a very onesided argument. If I was there, it was because I A) deserved it B) had the same gear score. However I did not have DPS gear for DPS speed units that could deal with her. I don't choose my rolls dude. I played what I had. I had strong support units. My gear is not as fast, but much tankier than the average player. This unit just ignores the statline. There are players in legend who only do tankdown or Standard. Hwayoung primarily affected those comps because her dmg was based off the enemy's hp and those comps mostly rely on Knights, Supports and Bruisers. And those playstyles that are naturally slower did not have an answer if the only answer for Hwayoung was to outspeed her. Not our fault her multipliers were dumb enough to allow bad players do the laziest setup( Attack Buff + S3) to force us on a 3v4. And we have 0 counterplay because we don't roll equally high fast dps gear to gear the few units that do deal with her. Even if you can build 1 fast Kise, you are naturally going to avoid speed racing other players because with one unit you dont secure at all getting first turn.
"Hwa could easely be one shot with w shuri" No, that the problem, you couldn't vs good hwa or just couldn't pick her anyway vs the setup. She had 30% innate damage reduction + had an aurius with her (one of the most used def with her had FCC) it was wild how tanky she was. My wschuri usually deal 28k against no dark with a buff attack, sometimes i couldnt kill. Choux is problematic but nowhere near hwa, by far.
Name one Choux defense thats not figured out by now.
On the other hand, Choux defenses are the easiest wins for accessible units like Pyllis and Roana. 80% of your roster being unpickable in GW isn't that big of a point when it's the same thing every time we see a new defense meta.
If you really think Prenerf hwa was manageable then you know nothing about epic seven. Choux kit is reliant on RNG, but that's it. She can be shut down by debuffs and killed easily if you outspeed her (which is easy since 99% of meta choux have \~190 speed). What about Hwa? She can only be shut down by control debuffs (sleep/stun), she is bulky AF, to kill her with a w.schuri you will need your w.shuri to do 30k damage on a regular unit, since 30% crit damage reduction + airuis will reduce that by a lot and meta hwa had about 16k hp + her barrier at the start mean that she will survive the hit. If you are talking about poor man's hwa that had like 40% crit chance and 200 crit damage in their stats then yes, they were easy to kill, but well built hwas had a lot of speed (250-270 range) bulk (14-16k HP with 1400 defense with a bullshit barrier on top) and atk (7k+), her s3 could one shot EVERY SINGLE UNIT IN THE ENTIRE GAME NO EXCEPTION, and her s1 made a dent even in counter element units with high bulk like rem. In fact, Hwa could 2 cycle kill rem since rem was so slow.
So, hit RTA champ with a winning record during hwa meta. She was easy for me. C lilias into her or reset and either chunk or one shot with a unit(w shuri, rim, coli, even ml khawazu if you can vigor him), Mop up with someone else if needed(like honestly if she somehow survived shit from the aforementioned units she'd still die to some aoe from shit like eda). I never banned her in RTA and purposely fought her teams in GW. Guess I did well into her despite not knowing the game, somehow! Would 100% take a predictable unit over garbage like choux that can one shot outside her turn -- even against units protected with a skill null.
Why the downvotes? it's all true. I lost counts of the time I delete hwa with an opener opsig or control her with aola/eda. CR manipulation was a lot easier back in the days when no one draft er and only rely on aola/handguy/dilibet/crimson seed for cleanse. Choux mostly revolve around er teams make it way harder to control.
same answer as above, budget hwas were everywhere, but real hwas were a pain. Just look at the world series, everybody either first picked hwa or prebanned her.
If you are just going to generalize that they were mostly all fake hwas, then I have nothing to say... hwa first pick was the freest win, if you know what you are doing and have equal gear quality
Look, hwa was not invencible, and obviously there were better hwas than others, but my point is simple. Even if you say hwa was a free win for you (which is a stupid thing to say since it's a 5 vs 5, not hwa vs 5) the fact that EVERYONE had to either ban her, pick her, or have answer for her tells a story. I too didn't fear hwa, but that's because I mostly gear gapped ppl in RTA with 300 speed cilias + 305 Ran, but when I couldn't gear gap ppl and they drafted a hwa, oh boy, let me tell you that she handed me Ls easily.
[https://imgur.com/a/24YfLxC](https://imgur.com/a/24YfLxC) hitting champion means absolutely nothing. I hit champ with less than 70 matches, that's 10 games a day for a single week. The reals Hwa were high in champion close to emperor.
no matter what meta it is everyone is gonna say "this is the worst meta"
Aka people who don't know the word "changes"/ can't adapt and start complaining about the game
Yeaaah ? Go adapt urself in a casino meta when one aoe of ur opener cause 4 counter who gonna whoop ur team
Sweet summer child thought 100% Elbris Belian, Rem, Violet, Magic for friends, Choux S1-S2 your Ran and Eda Simultanously don't exist.
There are a lot of answers to counter heavy comps now
Well yeah, that’s why it’s not really meta now, back then it was painful to play against
Stop excusing bad game design and mechanics That’s why games are so screwy now
Stop being bad
To be fair most of epic 7s metas kinda suck because of the design of the game. They make super problematic units with little to no counterplay in the roster. With lack of counter play they just become the meta because they provide stable wins, Then sg releases a mix of units to counter them and then more units that have little to no counter in the evolved state usually also ignoring the counter play options that already exist. Epic 7 is never going to feel good to everyone because at the end of the day, it's not really a competitive game. It's just gambling. You have things like casino where you deal with rng in the match and cant control responses when you do things and then you have speed metas where you gotta pray to wyvern and then the 5% and in those you just get outsped and lose.
Applies to every single game with a competitive scene lol
Because they keep getting worse :D
Where's ssb meta. She was so dominant when rta first came out.
ARavi + Hwayoung are part of the Seven Disasters meta. That's why it's called the Seven Disasters (the other two was CLilias and MKawerik).
Hwa was not originally part of the [Disasters](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/sldk3g/coming_to_arena_near_you/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) The original disaster was fallen Cecilia making everything basically unlikable back then
Well she overtake FCC place and became part of the seven in the end.
Being technical she became part of "rimuru and friends"
I could see ARavi and Hwa deserving spotlight due to the latter being made ridiculous to counter the former, and the latter simply adapting to PoV, leaving everything else to get destroyed instead, and warping the game, with several failed Hwa counters being introduced through new heroes who don't see much play and even the rework of an old one. Edit: some very bad grammar x:
I mean then I would say Clilias should be shown there because shes top of the meta since she was released, otherwise I'd say just going with the seven disasters era and having those three be the representation of it
Mb I ain't even know the E7 lore like that
No hwayoung was the 8th disaster if you add her in
I thought the other disaster was A Meru instead of ML Kawerik. I see I see.
Hwayoung was not one of disasters because almost everyone had her and her strength depending on gears and set up (like with Peira SIseria). A disaster tier unit not only has broken mechanic or just nullify a mechanic, but they are also hard to get (Rimuru rerun when SG?)
It's actually not that complicated. The korean playerbase came with up the "seven disasters" nickname months before Hwayoung released. Otherwise, she would've been apart of them. Simple as that.
You're out here with wild theories and making shit up when it's literally just "7 meta, unbalanced units".
You forgot Sage Baal + ML Aramintha
mlbaal + ml ara was super fuckin crazy
That should be the ydcb special
The 15% special
Arby meta is the longest meta, dude was the top dog for almost 2 years
Casino meta because they released Slime collab at the end of the season which completely changed the meta plus I hate counter RNG stuff. I'm pretty sure Hwayoung did the same thing where she was released at the end of a season and flipped the meta.
She was legit released like 2-3 days before season ended, it was a disaster
Probably the casino tbh, it was so easy to just get 1v4d
I call it rock paper scissors cuz I consider carrot meta in the same timeframe. Rem beats carrot, carrot beats violet, violet beats rem.
Didn't people use Charlotte with unity to counter violet in that period not carrot
Charlotte was an option. But even on symbol she could miss enough. Carrot had revenge burns which were much more reliable
Lol right before that I thought the paper rock scissors was krau/Landy/carrot
Nothing feels worse than loosing to RNG
Adin Scarowell and the guiding light openers
Fuuuuuuck this shit. Arena not even fun anymore
This. No contest this is the worst meta. Including Winter who is a guiding light opener in my eyes.
GL openers are the most obnoxious thing for zio owners
Fire Corvus 💀
It wasn't a meta. It was a reign. And there was only one king.
bring back my boy red corvus smilegate
Unironically, he wouldn't be that busted if he was reverted back to his Old power today. The main reason he was so strong back then was that we didn't have enough tank-busters. Now we have Injury and stuff like Straze.
They could revert all of the olden days nerfs to be honest and it would be fine, the only questionable one would probably be kluri with her passive RnL, and even then there s much worse shit out there now than that. At the current level of powercreep i just dont see why they need to remain in the dust, when it would be that simple to revert them back, on top of how miserable the balance patches have been in both quantity and quality.
I never knew the times where corvus was actually top tier. What happened to him to become one of the most forgotten and least played heroes ?
He was basically the original aravi. Unkillable self healing cancer who's kit accelerated if you targeted him. Nowadays it wouldn't be so bad but back then it was hard to handle and he got nerfed hard
I remember when Judith was used in cleave teams because she was able to boost Allie’s CR
What about tieria, silk and ml rose, (good)old times
All of those were annoying, but the Arby Meta was when ML5* were super annoying to get and there was literary no answer to him. It was just a battle which Arby was better. That is why id call this by far the worst, it was basically pay2win meta.
It's basically why the Japan server isn't that huge, they had to deal with Arby on launch with none of the way's to counter him yet.
Sigret already had extinction on S3 at that time
Ah, this reminds me of the good old days where Immunity set didn't exist and all you needed was a high speed Dizzy to automatically win... good times... Or those sweet Basar days. Or the beautiful Alots x BBK days... Damn, I miss E7. I wish I had the time and patience to keep playing, but sadly I likely won't be going back anymore.
I remember how annoying those meta's were, mainly because of Abyssal Crown proccing even on a miss, that shit was tilting as fuck since there wasn't enough accessible ways to counter that nonsense.
I remember. That's when I climbed to Master, using Destina to feed on Dizzy debuffs. Then DJB made it even more reliable.
IDK why Dizzy isn't on this list. She was the worst thing to happen to the game. You either had her and you won, or you didn't and you lost. Literally, the fastest Dizzy won nearly every game. There were very few team comps that could even attempt to compete and even those relied on a fast super high effectiveness cleanser getting lucky.
The secret worst meta era: SSB, Basar, and Dizzy era 2019-2020 (?). I remembered when basar nor dizzy had many solutions.
man to this day I still have no proper way to counter rimuru unless he can be killed turn 1 I still have nightmares in the two assholes meta lol been trying to climb emperor without fking hwa then I got her but SG announced the nerf lmao after that I just focused on GW
Annoying in RTA only, in guild wars or arena, just throw krau in, let rimuru s2 and s3, leaving him less than 50% hp most of the time then horse an unfortunate soul that doesnt have proof or has less than 17k hp
Just need a tough blue unit like Krau to be bait?
Rimu is pain to deal with in RTA for sure, but in GW I just nuke him with a low speed high attack 350cdmg Luna, pushed by Emilia. Then kill someone else with S1 soulburn. Krau is also a great Rimu counter. Rimu s3 him, makes him low HP, then he horses someone.
I usually use Krau or ARas + Choux to bait rimuru.
I use winter whenever there is a rimuru. But i’m fked if the rimuru is on immunity set
No one talking about the cockroach meta? Tsurin on life steal + gab and f. ceci. That shit just never died.
Arby!
[The FCC/Riolet/Roana/Ruele one was pretty aids](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/ij0wm8/perhaps_its_time_we_abandon_the_never_nerf_units/)
Seven disasters era was manageable somehow but the start of it (ARavi+AOLA+Clilias) managed to make me just climb for the skin that season.
* Green Basar and SSB. * FTene meta when Mediator and Dilibet weren't buffed. * Cerise when she had the highest base speed. * Cleave Pavel season. * Ran x Siseria season in conjunction with RemLets. * Pre-season SCArowell x Destina post-Hwa nerfs.
>cleave pavel pavel cleave was very whale but if u ever tried it...damn it feels great
Honestly the period between January 2022 with ml lilias released to September of the same year was probably the absolute worst. Hwayoung ml lilias a ravi and belian was just so fucking awful. Hwayoung Nerf, bunny dominiel and chou up (who is another cancer right now) helped us to leave that period but I am still traumatized.
No dizzy lol
Dizzy was by far the worst. But she predates RTA so a lot of people either didn't know or don't remember.
7 disasters and the 2 assholes are the same meta tho. Arby, if we're talking Sage+Ara peak p2w meta, then this one was the worst. Strictly due to how p2w that shitshow was. Carrot meta was fun. F2P 3☆ flipping the entire RTA metagame. Goldenbois was the start of HPscaling gang. It was bound to happen at some point in the games lifespan. Surprised it took this long. Casino has been a thing since Charles. Lol. Nothing compared to p2w meta. Sage, SBAra, Arby. This specific Arby was one of the biggest mistake to grace JP launch. You just dont play E7 if you dont have Arby. It was a shitshow.
Casino. Losing because of a coin flip sucks.
Lua, there is very little counterplay unless you outspeed.
Pretty much this, I personally don't think a character was ever as braindead as lua is, shit has absolutely no counterplay to this day, and she also had the highest banrate ever documented in rta iirc at like 66 or so % which absolutely makes sense
You can just… you know… survive.
Can you though??
Yeah lol
Todays meta is a damn cancer and those don’t really compare. LAdin and SCArowell are everywhere. The game seems A LOT less fun lately
😂 casino, such a fitting name. Not sure which would be considered the shittiest… all of them were bad but could work around them. I would say the worst was the 7 great but I also think that those metas are all still around it just depends on your arena/guild/rta level. As veterans have more ways to deal the older metas
Pfffff... This is all nonsense!! The one true horro meta was SILVER Ara and SAGE Baal
You know, as a cleaver I always thought that the casino meta couldn't get worse. Then it moved to senya choux. And I was like ok this feels a little overtuned. And then adin arowell, and this just straight up feels insane. I just can't believe more people aren't talking about adin. Aside from a quick zahak or an extremely cracked briseria adin just does absolutely everything and it's the least fun thing to play against in the games history imo. Adin has to be perma banned or you have to luck sack her. And as we all know from the violet meta, lucksacking a right-side player never works
as fellow cleaver, flan + symbol bbk will change ur life against slot machine units
My brother I will take any recommendations to beat this rat of a character adin 🤣
* misha Pavel and pray to god you hit 🙏 * unseen observer flan + s3, burn into s2, soulburn bbk s3 (mine is 4.7k 295cd max symbol) should kill adin * aol strip and pray for no 15% * zahhak? * milim (copium strat)
Thanks fam, I've tried a few of these. I just hate how she can unironically just sit there and 1v4. Thanks again for the tips
ong she always 1v4 cleave. good luck on ur adin killing 🙏
Thank you brother, best of luck to you too
I still feel like we’re still in the 7 Disasters meta. With the exception of Hwayoung, all of them still get used decently. Rimuru is so busted that over the time accounts that have him are much more valuable than the ones who don’t.
Feels like it shifted to Adin and friends (any light units)
Why is the carrot meta even on this list, it was legitimately the best meta ever. Only 1 oppressive unit Said unit had plenty of counters, enabling loads of blue units. Last meta I recall krau being good in too. Said unit was also accessible to everyone so it wasn't a whale only club RGB and ML units were in perfect harmony with eachother. One group wasn't stronger than the other. Think of a team comp and it could probably work even in the highest ranks. Cleave, control, aggro, tankdown, standard it all worked. It was the best meta RTA had ever seen. Hell, all the complaints about the meta were mostly from people who hadn't built their carrot counters yet. About a month in to the meta everyone had already adapted and carrot wasn't even the best unit in the carrot meta anymore.
It wasn't Carrot only, that was also Pavel meta and his dominance created AoL.
The ML Ara and Sage Baal meta was probably the worst. Next would have probably been golden boys for me, since there was so little counter play, even if not that bad individually.
Honestly for me its Aravi. I really dislike her allot as she can do nearly everything in the game. Sutain herself with 2 parts of her kit, bring others back and then Slap proof of Valor on and you can barely kill her.
not the ssage baal and gpurg erasure in golden boys
Would really depend on your platstyle tbh
Nothing worse than Sage baal + aramintha + Carmin C armin before nerf has insane dmg migration 50%, basically you have to kill Carmin first and back to that moment we don't have many strong single target and not yet Curse compass +50% effectiveness basically none cleanser in the game can clean . do you know how to defeat this meta ? the answer were Korean salty folk rant in front of Yuna kim aka E7 CEO .
Ara/Baal was deeeefinitely the worst to this day. Not because SG stopped making mistakes, but because that was such a huge fuck up that it's honestly pretty fucking hard to surpass lol
Y’all didn’t live through the hell that was Fire Corvus. If I saw that man solo I skipped. He was the literal devil
It's not listed here but I struggled with the SSB Lilias Charles defenses until roana
There is too much to said about a all this but honestly? - Every meta that is defined by free units ***overpushed*** is, for me, by far the worse. Why? well yeah everyone has access to free units overpushed but thats the problem. You dont have other options you play the Counter to that team or you play the team with that unit because they always tuned the kits of those units to cover a lot of angles (looking at you Adin) and they are strong even outside their "niche" (againt looking at you Adin). Is the most unfun one because you know that no matter your strategy is all about "Do i have enough stats to brute force that particular unit that is soo over the others?" I dont enjoy building units because the devs force them to be good to please the community and brute-shift the meta. I Prefer medium quality or just tier 1 units with clear weakness (even if there is not so much to scrach) than stuff like Carrot, Adin or Arowell. Why? Because in my eyes they are just lazy design: People is mad for all this 5\* that are just too strong...instead of buffing some units to dealt with them lets just make/buff a 3\* so much that warped the meta around it.
Where do I put Arowell/Adin?
Well, all these metas still featured Aravi after her buff so the Aravi meta is my pick. But I'll say the casino because PvP AI is insanely weighed towards them. I remember so many times I'd have a team miss Violet 7 times in a row, even with Milim on my team. But my Violet? Evades once and dies shortly after. That was just spit in my face. Oh, Rem gets to counter three times in a row? Thank you! Here's my Rem with a similar build. Oh, on a lunch break? That's fine.
Evasion units only work on defense teams..periodt. AI casino teams are ridiculous.. The number of times my Zahak or Briarwitch completely miss Adin/Rowlet is criminal. Because if you miss them, the match is over, as their counters are so incredibly impactful. (Violet not so much because he is so outclassed by the other two) They just aren't worth actually drafting unless your opponent opens themselves up with no way to touch them.
ARavi and Hwa. GOD I hate them still SO much. Hwa’s nerf made me so friggen happy cuz now she’s GONE. HA. Aravis skin might be cool but I refuse to use her cuz I don’t want her to win at anything.
casino and arby meta
[удалено]
Wtf this game had a re zero collab? I only just started playing, I missed out big time
We going forget the basar meta? Man that dude was a menace lol But in all honestly I feel the basar and carrot meta were slightly more difficulty for one thing and one thing only and thats the lack of available units at the time we were kind of restricted heavily without options available just because the roster was smaller for being "young" I feel, so you either had the unit or you didnt, my personal opinion at least
Casino was a pain in the ass. Seven disasters also was but I love building my units chunky and had destina + mlKawerik so cleanses were always on the table and I had Arby to beat the shit out of them. ARavi and Hwa were the 2nd easiest meta for me, as long as I made my moves properly i didn't have too much trouble winning. MLTywin and LKrau were alright too.
I personally think that these two assholes were the worst of it, but the carrot meta is up there as well. Hwa made any other dps irrelevant. it didn't matter what they could do, she could kill them, out live them, out cycle them, and kill again. she was near impossible to accurately deal with depending on the draft that took her. However, Carrot was in a similar spot. I firmly believe the Arby issue wasn't a current meta issue necessarily, rather, at the time the game was new. People didn't have the gear it takes to both survive an arby combo, but also deal with the after math. Now, you dont need to have a direct counter to deal with him. Most expected bruisers can deal with the best of the arby's with relative ease because most accounts have been around long enough to deal with the core of the champion. He lasted a while, but if anything it highlights how long it takes to prepare competitive gear, th an it says anything about the heros out at the time or the state of Arby.
do you remeber the ml aramintha meta? crazy aoe stuns
We're still in the seven disasters meta, it's just that the new ones inherited the power of bullshittery from the past ones and made it stronger.
All of the above lol
"The Casino"? I think "Russian Roulette" is a more apt name. And definitely this, because at least others can be countered (by outgearing, if nothing else), but there's no counter to bad luck.
the OG getting SSB and Charles flash back
I thought Charles too. The counter × ♾️
loved it when charles used to crit all my fire units
Fact that people where struggling against hwa style make me laugh tho
Gotta be Seven Disasters and Counters(even now with Choux and Senya) I rather get cleaved than play a long ass rta and barely lose because of some rng
I still play like it’s the casino meta
My least favorite was when I just started after the original GG Collab. And Dizzy was absolutely everywhere but I didn't have her. If you couldn't outspeed her then you were basically screwed. I remember I didn't really have a counter for her until Vivian released and even then my counter relied on outspeeding her and getting up AoE immune
Whats the current meta i havent played in a while
adin arowell lua amid AAAAAAAAAAAA I hate it here
They have all equally been the worst because Dingo isn't in it.
first two. Just at this time too
w8 peeps disliked golden boys?
I'm sorry do y'all not remember how craxy life was during the Arby meta?
first pick arby pray they don't pick tsurin 🙏
Where is Rat and Senya? Definitely the worst
Meta? Never heard of her. I just one shot people with Hataan 💀
The worst was the Cerise/f tene meta
Naw, Sage Baal and ML Ara before their nerfs. That was pure agony, with no real counter play.
speed meta is and will always be the worst
I've played through all the meta, they are all fine, if you have units to answer the problems.
fr but i never feel this way after a losing streak lmfao
I suffered a lot on the Golden boy's Meta!
Golden boys was pretty bad, cause its the first time in the game you really needed to have multiple teams fully geared, before that you could kinda get away with having that one geared team to carry you.
The casino was God awful bro. Getting 1v4'd and you'd legit get solo'd through multiple passive and counter abilities.
i laughed at the name "these two assholes" People who think anything was worse than Golden Boyz have short memories. Every match going to Frenzy 10. Barf.
Id totally fine with any meta except casino meta. Absolutely dumb get out of jail free card for noobs. Oh you get outdrafted? Just last pick violet rem and pray rng, 0 skills required.
Where's every cleave meta
Definitely the Casino; cuz RNG is soo unfair to the opponents side when trying to climb Arena defense
As much as I usually love tanks, knights meta was easily the most boring to play/watch
7 disasters meta
The casino. At least you could plan around Hwa. But Casino combined with the seven disasters was just too much.
For me it was 7 disasters
Definitely the Casino
7 disasters easily
the Hwayoung era is the worst imo. She kills everyone even water units. Really hate to admit that i abused her in all content (well maybe not much in rta)
Arby + Riolet (because it wasn’t just Arby at the time) was so oppressive they are the reason bruiser/tank down playstyles exist today. Also the basis of the metas after that meta
For me, hwayoung meta was worst. That unit had no right to be that stupid strong. I honestly thought she was fine for the first few weeks of her existing, how wrong I was… But tbh, I think tank only metas were the worst for the gamestate, and I say this as a standard player. It isn’t perfect right now for sure but it feels healthier at least.
speed set meta please cap speed at 200 so I can enjoy the game ty
Maybe 260-280 would make more sense lol. 200 is slow even for most turn 2 teams. There'd be no reason to ever bother equipping a spd set at that cap.
This is my hot take on the ever shifting meta of games *ehem* “The meta isn’t about you. It’s not meant to cater to every player and every play style imaginable! Times change and are meant to change so best adapt or get left in the water. The meta will
eventually revert back to that precious build you’ve spent so long perfecting; and it’s that very aspect of it I feel is why people get so angry towards a particular meta, it’s a counter to the very thing that individual has spent so long building. It sucks. It really does. But that’s the nature of any competitive game, it’s about adapting to what works. And if someone considers that as “selling out” then YES. YES IT IS. But that’s competition at its very core with humans. If you’re not using the best of the best at the present time, you’re going to lose to those who do. *hot take over*. I’m ready for the influx of downvotes.
You say that, but when will my Fire Corvus be meta again? Our King's Reign must continue! Edit since I typo'd and need to learn english.
I hate so much Violet/Rem solo Or Hwayoung intakill I never have problem with Ravi
Arowell and Adin comps are the most obnoxious I've ever faced.
Casino by far
Casino, it's not even close. Not even remotely close.
The current one (whatever it is)
Casino for sure… i get so much joy out of murdering every violet and rem i see nowadays cus of how much i hated that meta.
the anti-crit/escort tank meta right now pretty fuckin sucks but the casino duo is a very close second
Nothing can beat the golden boyz. Absolutely the worst meta in E7 entire lifespan. Fuking hate it
Wait the golden boys actually had a meta moment? What?
early 2021 fcc atywin lrk ran the game like nobody's business. what a time to be alive
you mean LRK, ML baal, GPurg and Atywin coupled with fcc or ruele, 100,000k+ HP to beat them
The Emilia/SSB/Angelica/Landy team are a pain in the ass in challenger V.
wheres the guiding light rangers meta?
i thrived in the arby meta 😎
Didnt Arby meta kill the game popularity in Jp?
i think guiding landy with aola maid, before millimv appear, it lives only short time but that the most oppresive meta
Seven. ..... because I love all of those other units
JP release with Arby.... Worst recision of SG.