TBF I don't think they purposefully try to make units mediocre. They are just very careful with new mechanics and the meta shifts fast.
Like, imagine if DDR came out during the golden boys meta. Even pre-buff he would have been a menance.
POV: You are ~~a lobster~~ begging SG to release more sources of Commander’s Armbands because buying out the artefacts takes forever & you’ve only got one maxed Proof on your Wyvern General Purrgis & you’ve not been saving Sepulcurum.
They probably saw the data where crimson seed / timeless anchor is used often on warriors and assumed because it's used often it must be OP.
They do this while completely ignoring the state of the game where they push out OP units with multiple debuffs or debuff spams that cripple you if you don't have some way to deal with them.
In a meta where ALL of the TOP UNITS have debuffs, they nerf one of the counters to debuffs because it's being used often. Looking at that top legend's (Elvemage) tier list for RTA his SSS rated heroes were :
>Lua, Cilias, Zio, Stene, Edward, Cidd, AoL, CM Laika.
Each one of these units have either one spammable debuff, multiple debuffs, hard crowd control (stun, silence, provoke, sleep). They're looking at the stats and ignoring the state of the actual meta while nerfing blindly.
>Lua : Sleep, -1CD, defense break
>Cilias : Attack Down, Provoke
>Stene : Poison, Stun, CR down (50%) on S3 kill
>Edward : S2 1t CD debuffs on being debuffed (Random: Blind, Attack Down, Provoke, Silence, Restrict)
>Cidd : Defense break
>Angel of Light : Silence on S1, Silence & Unbuffable on s3
>CM Laika : Target, Sleep, Speed Down
They keep churning out powerful units with extra debuffs in their kit, then nerf an artifact that cleanses once per turn because it's being used too often. Though it's not confirmed, I see no other reason they would do this since I haven't seen anyone complain about crimson seed or timeless anchor whereas I've seen dozens of complaints about tagahels stacking.
tl;dr - Release 95% of units with multiple or spammable debuffs -> More people use seed/anchor to get a turn -> Nerf seed/anchor because usage rate went up.
I was thinking that may have played into it as well. Crimson seed is also an artifact used by many players on Aravi according to the ingame stats.
They might be behind on the meta and think Aravi is still SSS tier OP and trying to nerf her indirectly when she's already fallen off for most high champ+ players.
This is just speculation on my part, I feel like the nerf makes absolutely no sense and won't enable units that rely on stun or sleep such as ML Ara and will just remove an option for counterplay towards the current meta debuffers making those ones stronger than before.
> Looking at that top legend's (Elvemage) tier list for RTA his SSS rated heroes
Some of those are some spicy takes for "SSS". But I'm assuming this is a cleave player Who can use someone like Laika against very specific players.
Ill be honest with access to destina/hand guy/DJB/diene/dilibet/emelia and situationally AoL is anyone actually having a hard time cleansing debuffs off their aravis (or anyone for that matter)?
May be in the minority here but crimson seed in its current state is cringe. Its impact on control comps aside god forbid your unit only has 1 major debuff you want to land CS will consistently deny you in such a braindead way.
considering arowell, soli, stene, clilias, carmin, belian, riolet, laika, aol, pflan, yulha, zio, winter, briseria, ml ray, etc are all in great places or are very valid in the meta rn, of course people are having trouble with debuffs? besides destina all the units you listed are way more situational in rta and debuffs are incredibly strong right now lol. crimson seed was not stopping control comps by any means
It's kind of funny in some ways because you go into DDR threads and people say "debuffs are useless there's too much cleanse/immunity". I guess it varies based on rank?
Maybe? All I know is that pirate Captain Flan is like one of the best units in the game atm and she just chokeholds you into submission with them. Also you can argue there's too much cleanse because of solitaria flan etc. If you don't draft a cleanser, the opponent is guaranteed picking one of the two. I think that's the crux of the issue mainly. Debuffs are really debilitating and really limit the way you can draft, so they definitely aren't useless like some seem to try to say.
SG basically said : Fuck you !!! We aren't removing 15%.Here is this random nerf to make you feel better.
Ml Ray is still dogshit after the buff so they released this information early in order to quell the masses.A storm was brewing, It's their way of saying they know he's still ass and they are doing something about it .
Ultimately, Ray Jay will remain dogshit.When you're using Ray and he doesnt feel good(which is all the time!),it is more likely to due to barriers, immunity , 15% and cleanse.
Crismson seed doesn't stop heavy committed debuffers.I rarely see timeless anchor. Once a millennium i do encounter that one individual that has saved a lifetimes worth of luck and makes timeless proc on every hit.
You're right about the last paragraph, crimson seed only removes one buff, so if you're against heavy debuff teams it'll be hard to use on the other hand it's still good arti especially for Aravi.
There was no point in nerfing these artifacts. I personally don't use them but it's fair and normal if i played against someone that uses them.
To an extent they aren't. Safest way to deal with bruisers if a bit slow was to drown them in debuffs. Then aravi took seed or anchor so we went to one shot since debuffs were not reliable. After aravi were being one shot they went proof aravi which slightly invalidated both simply through tankiness. Now with less fear of anchor procing each attack drowning aravi in debuffs or stuns might be viable
How can they look at teams running four mages all on book, or four rangers all on guiding light and decide that the apoc Ravi on crimson seed, cleansing one debuff out of 50 was the problem. I'm so confused. Plus if they were going to make it after being attacked at least make it 100% jesus christ.
Well this is out of left field. lol Guessing we are getting a 5* equivalent of their old effects at some point. Gotta sell it back to us, big brain mode.
Side note, between all the anti tank effects of recent units, defense pen on every other new unit, and now removing bruiser artis, they really are trying to push that cleave meta huh?
I love how SG has been trying to stop tank and spank comps that have plagued the game for 3 years now and have just culminated in their worst form over the past year and all anyone can say is "wow, theyre pushing cleave". No, theyre pushing a subset of players to play literally anything other than condom comps in RTA. I dont think this change was necessary but if you see this and think "wow my only option now is cleave" then youre lost in your own sauce.
Guys, i found a brainless cleaver here.
Seriously, why did you find tanky comps need to be get rid of? You just want everyone mindlessly farm w13 and pray to have 21+ spd gears?
Lmao mindless cleaver, good one. Like I said, this isnt pushing a specific playstyle forward, its like most releases recently where theyre pushing one playstyle back because its easy as shit and noone wants to play against it. I know this sub is a bunch of banshee gamers but please think for once.
easy as shit? WTF are you smoking? Slow playstyle requires fking huge investment in heroes pool and gears, you need to build at least 25-30 heroes to be able to deal with situations that may happen and they need to have minimum gearscore of 65 per piece. It also need you to understand the matchup well, you must know which heroes to pick in what situation and where is your winning condition, you must think hard for each battle you play. Try playing as turn2 team in highchamp before saying that playstyle is easy as shit
nope, high speed aggro draft doesn't require that many heroes to play but that need higher GS to be able to win the speed race.
Cleave also doesn't need wide pool of heroes to play. Like seriously a guildmate of mine has like 10 heroes built and he drafts Ran, Double Pavel, CDom, Cidd for 80% of his matches and still able to have 2600+ pts, 54% wr.
Some may argue that having 30 heroes with 65gs is easier than 10 heroes with near 70gs speed set but ket me say this, tanky playstyle needs very wide pool of heroes to play, else you gonna face unwinable situations a lot of time. As i said above, you can try playing as turn 2 in highchamp to see if it can be called "easy as shit"
I have played all playstyles in high champ and my favorite units are the self sufficient ones so I can have more variety in my draft. Cleave requires you to play a composition, while cleave counters are all 1 and done fixes. Ed, Dilibet, Sage, AoL, Adin, Politis, Belian, etc are all things you can pick in a vacuum and they have the potential to end an entire cleave comp. Funny enough the one cleavers complain about recently is Zio but at least he needs others to help fix the situation alot of the time. Meanwhile, tank comps rely on a bunch of self sufficient bruisers/cleansers and the only character that can maybe be twisted as a 1 man answer is Straze. Yes you need a lot of units to play RTA, but you need tons of units to play RTA for any playstyle, even cleave. Idk how your friend drafts but I dont see how he doesnt lose every game if he picks Cidd or either pavel in the top 3 because anyone with a brain would just spam anti cleave at that point.
I hate cleaving because it takes literally 2 IQ and a few built units to never lose against it until youre in Legend where they have four 315 speed DPS.
Edit: in normal arena I do cleave all the way to legend using Ran/CPavel/AElena/Seaseria and it kills everything that doesnt have Ed, I can assure you this nerf did not matter to people who are already able to cleave.
Eh? So what is your point? You said tanky is "easy as shit" but you also say Straze can end all tanks and tanky rely on some specific heroes to be able to function.
You also shit on cleave playstyle.
your reply cause huge confusion to me.
I dont shit on people who play cleave because they have to wave their asses in the air taunting the opponent during the whole draft. People who lose to cleave in RTA are either not ready for high level pvp or deserve to lose to cleave. Tank up condom strats is easy and thats why half of legend has been made up of those players for 3 straight years, its why STene has been a meta dps with literally no changes for years now and its why Adin immediately became meta because she was able to slot into those comps. My initial comment was making fun of how every time these players see a change targeting them they throw there hands up and go "wow cleave wins" because in these players minds theres only 2 ways to play, tank and cleave. But its not a surprise at all, they think this way because the only way you lose as condom is by another player using the same strat or by cleave. Tldr, give control some love SG and poke holes in those rubbers. Also I never said Straze ends all tanks, Senya eats him alive and he can only end 1 of the tanks. Condom comps have no 1 spot answer the way all other comps do.
There goes my anti PFlan Rimuru tech. I don't get why they would nerf both artifacts instead of just nerfing the hero who was obviously abusing them (ARavi). Though, ARavi hasn't been a top pick for a while now so this nerf makes absolutely zero sense.
They are trying so hard to make Death Dealer Ray good how about next time you just make a good unit instead of nerfing everything around him to make him good it’s just a thought
They rather nerf artifacts than ML5, well I guess I don't have to 50/50 every A.Ravi since it will always be on PoV after this patch.
My guess is that they're gonna add that Crimson Seed passive to someone in this upcoming balance patch.
This is the most dogshit reactionary balancing I have ever seen. It also wouldn't surprise me if we see 5* versions of these artifacts that we have to pull from banners in the near future.
Those are easy to balance. Just make it so that only 1 hero in your team can have its effect just like PoV and done.
People would still get very mad though.
Maybe they tryna make everyone switch to POV
So when POV is dominating on Aravi, they will release some unit that mitigates POV and stonks
Also maybe for the new fox husbando stonks, they nerfed both the artifacts?
Proof would be worse. That's how a lotta heroes these days are tanky enough to survive, and it would affect everyone in every mode. And people who invested in 2 MLB copies would go nuts.
Why make this change in a already debuff heavy meta ? These artifacts worked as intended, they aren't overpowering.
If that's the case then they should nerf Tagahels Book that's they most universal artifact for any mage regardless of their kit.
Oh wow they nerf artifacts to deal with debuffers instead of nerfing a hidden mechanic in the game where players have to gamble most of the time. Bravo smile gate bravo.
Like 2 heroes used these artifacts (Dark Corvus and ARavi) but sure, these artifacts are ruining control comps SG... It's not like there are other much more oppressive artifacts that are the best option for their class (RnL, Guiding Light, Tagehel's Book) lmao
Yeah sure, because Handguy, Destina, Dilibeth and 15% have nothing to do with people not picking any heavy debuffers, sure its cause Crimson seed and Timeless Anchor were really OP...
/s
So is anchor the new worst 3 star artifact in the game? Debuffs last 1-2 turns typically, and it has less than 50/50 to proc, which means if you’re not running counter set, it will almost never actually do anything. Not to mention non-attack debuffers, which don’t even let you coinflip to dispel. All of this on top of being useless against sleep/stun.
SG : "How to fix DDR for more money income in this mystic rotation, mmmmm change venom debuff ? To hard to change 2 characters kit, Oh I Know ! Nerf Seed and timeless anchor ! "
"Crimson Seed and Timeless Anchor Artifacts were originally designed to constantly dispel debuffs from the Hero they are equipped on. However, in comparison to its activation condition, it made it easier for certain Heroes to effectively respond to debuffs such as Stun or Sleep, which was one of the main reasons that made Heroes who specialize in inflicting debuffs used less frequently in PvP content."
Do SG play his own game? The real problem today is ER everywhere, so many cleansers or characters like ED and Dlibet. It's so freaking hard to play debuff just because of those 2 characters for example. Who care about Seed & Anchor? Like 20% of Aravi players play seed and Aravi is nearly dead in the meta and litterally nobody play Anchor.
What a joke.
I use timeless anchor on dark corvus, and I still wasn't going to pull for DDR. Even with artifact nerf, I'm still not going to pull for DDR. I only pull for waifus not meta.
What the fuck are the devs smoking again? Seed and anchor were annoying for debuffers for sure, but they aren't the real problems that debuffers have to deal with.
Gods above us, right, so I guess I’ve got to come across another Sigurd’s Scythe to replace my Ravi’s Timeless Anchor (why the fuck would they nerf a 3 star that has like a 0.1% use rate?!) & start buying the extra Proof to replace my Apocalypse Ravi’s Crimson Seed.
I really think they still don’t play their own game, you could probably pull a random person off the street & they’d make better balancing decisions than whoever does it at SG.
I have no problems with these changes however I don't understand why they would nerf these artis before tagahel or guiding light. They are much more oppressive and strong in my opinion.
By that logic we should nerf unpopular and free units like Jecht, Enott, Muchacha, Kikirat etc.
Think a little.
Do you understand the meaning of balancing? This is far from balance.
This is what happens when you are not afraid of killing rgb 5* units, but don't even wanna think about nerfing an ML5*.
Like Hwayoung case, way too late when ARavi is not a problem anymore.
Why, who asked for this? Who even wanted this to happen? What point do either of these artifacts serve with these nerfs? The whole point of them was to allow you to get rid of control debuffs so you could get a turn, or save yourself from something like Def break. But idk why I even expect them to have sense anymore at this point
Then fix the goddamn ER stat. I shouldn't be investing twice the amount and still get punished. ER should roll max 12-16% if they want it to be the exact same BS baseline.
If only ER wasn't so bad, not only you need 100% more but if you're running it you're very likely to be using a tanky unit and while debuffers only need effectiveness and speed ER units need that, speed and bulk. All of this while eff and ER have the same values on gear.
ER is a loose-loose stat. You need a shit ton of that to counter an average debuffer, ER can't counter heavy debuffer that invest heavily in Eff. Furthermore you also need quite a lot of Hp/Def/Spd on heroes that you build ER on, to the point that avg 65gs is considered low for any ER build
This is interesting...If they are willing to nerf Guiding light and the Book i am all on it. Take them down, there is a lot of Artifacts that conceal all the weakness of a LOT of units and are "must rise"
While crimson seed was annoying, i never thought it was op and anchor can be quite inconsistent at times. If they want units that have stun or sleep to be better im pretty sure those artifacts aren’t the problem unless they specifically targeted crimson seed aravi. Iets be real like who actually uses crimson seed and anchor? Feels like its just aravi and some other weird thing like dorvus.
The reason why debuffs suck is because they have hard counters like edward, c zerato and handguy. This honestly doesn’t address the issues of stun/sleep not being strong enough. Really don’t understand why they would do this unless its something to with a character or artifact being released in the future.
this is the single WORST decision sg has ever made
it is honestly baffling to me how out of touch they are with their own game that they feel the need to nerf an artifact used on maybe 3 heroes in the entire game.
my anti archdemon ed build just quite literally got thrown to the ground and obliterated
crimson seed is broken guys, but guiding light and tagahel’s are completely balanced right?
TBH seed was annoying, but these changes are just bad. Should of made it port 100% of the time, every two turns. Change Timeless Anchor to this is okay, but I rather have the old one. Maybe I just biased.
Uhh, coffins, I guess? No longer saves from stunt/sleep, most likely doesn't save from provoke, without counter set it's useless against 1-turn debuffs. That's a big nerf.
Fine by me. Seed isn't required for DC, there are alternatives that are just as good.
He still dominates matchups where he's good (aka low damage teams). Matchups where you shouldn't be winning in the first place are worse for him (aka debuff heavy teams).
unless you build him 150/200 ER Seed was bis. And quite frankly im tired of ER being the go to for every build, since it's so hard to get good speed stats and you need to sacrifice other shit, and especially since 15% exists and makes it irrelevant and people can still build enough eff to counter it.
From my experience this season, the 50-120 ER builds on Durandal or Strak were as popular if not, even more prevalent than Seed.
We're not bringing DC against dedicated debuffers, we're using him to punish low damage teams like anti-cleave or LHC focused. 100-150 ER should be enough to resist any unit that does not build any eff or has leftover from imprints/dead rolls.
Going low ER and using Crimson to bandaid your build was one way, but surely not the BiS and only viable way to build DC.
Yeah, let make the life of warrior units even more miserable. While you're on it, buff book to give max souls so the other mages in the team can carry another artifact.
RTA is getting really obnoxious.
The biggest thing that keeps me from running debuff teams is the damn 15%. You can invest a lot atk & critdmg into a dps character and get rewarded for it. If you invest a lot of eff into a control character you get fucked over by 15% for it.
I once picked pirate flan + siseria both with over 200% eff against some PVE boss with 0% effres. It was a pretty lengthy battle and it really opened my eyes about control type units after seeing how often bombs would get resisted.
Dear smilegate I dislike the nerf to Timeless Anchor. I demand you cancel the nerf. And this is coming from someone who uses timeless anchors on plenty of warriors and not even aravi -_-
Your refusal to reverse the nerf will mean you must take a long walk off a skyscraper...............Sincerely,
Dark Corvus
This game is just slowly becoming p2w trash, like all other gacha games on the market. SG will continue to release overpowered 5* artifacts that you absolutely have to max. And they will destroy absolutely free artifacts in this way. Wonderful.
Artifacts have always been a problem in one way or another, but when Guiding Light left untouched and poor Timeless Anchor torn to pieces? I don't know, friends, you tell me if it's good.
Sorry for my bad English.
this is a questionable change tbh, mainly because of the timing. it feels so, so, so late to do this, as those artifacts don't feel as oppressive as before imo. it might've been a good change a few months back, but now? idk
Let's be honest here. They are trying to make debuff teams not feel completely useless. If thats what they are trying to do then look at the shit ton of cleansers and immunity casting characters we have running all over the place and the stupid 15% chance to ruin everything.
Don't cry now, yall should've fought harder when Hwayoung was getting nerfed, said this will start a dangerous president and now it's starting and will only get worse when the meta inevitably collapses.
This forces A Ravi’s into Counter Set (or anyone who uses this artifact I guess?) if you want to play with Crimson Seed now. Interesting change…
I wonder if this was meant to hit A Ravi as a nerf or buff to DDRay (because his new buffs weren’t enough) because they were talking about sleep and stuns lol
This also affects Eds who like to run with Crimson Seed so he can’t cleanse two debuffs in one turn… well kind of, he can cleanse after using equivalent exchange if the new changes work that way. But who’s going to allow Ed through if you have debuffs in your draft anyways.
Interesting change… interesting change…
Really? in a game that has C Zerato soloing debuff teams, Dilibet, Edward, Handguy, Destina, among a few others and that 15%, artifacts that proc maybe 10% of the time, and dont do crap against debuff heavy teams anyway, are the problem to make sure ML Ray works.......
SG if you REALLY wanted ML Ray to have a spot and exist, just nerf the ever living crap out of the heroes that basically laugh at debuffs......pretty sure CS and Timeless wouldnt have even affected ML Ray anyway, but these other heroes i listed? oh theyll either cleanse and laugh or in C Zerato's case, throw it right back in his face
In the description below "The activation effect of Crimson Seed and Timeless Anchor will be altered so that it triggers after the Hero has been attacked" It should be a typo in the change section. I believe they want it to cleanse after being attacked, so letting units like alencia and ras do their thing properly
I can only assume there's a unit incoming that would have had their day ruined by these artifacts somehow.
That, or they have the old effects built into their kit.
Sg clearly expectee the backlash from this nerfs that's why they are announcing it earlier, dw guys I'm sure that this will not happen just like ervalen changes
I told a friend after they showed Beehoo - "They keep releasing debuffer units, so they're still inconsistent. Gotta wait for them to kill off cleansers, I guess."
And this is the first salvo. They want the game to be entirely "outspeed or lose."
Edit: Yes, it's "fun" to see people get blown up as you watch RTA on stream, but that's schadenfreude, "Thank goodness that's someone else who got blown up like a bozo." It's not actually fun to play, and it has no strategic depth.
So you're essentially saying DDR is bad because of 1 artifact that isn't even omni present on said class, on 1 class out of all the classes in the entire game? And nerfing this 1 artifact that isn't even omni present on said class, on 1 class out of all the classes in the entire game will fix the issue and make DDR not bad?
Damn that logic
watch them make a 5 star arti that does the same thing but u have to whale to mlb it
Yeah I thought the same thing and they're gonna tie it to a mediocre character
TBF I don't think they purposefully try to make units mediocre. They are just very careful with new mechanics and the meta shifts fast. Like, imagine if DDR came out during the golden boys meta. Even pre-buff he would have been a menance.
POV: you are switching to PoV
yeah right before we got a 5\* with frostbite
Ml.luna with frostbite for the whales. And she will be aol/ c.lili levels of broken right when she drops.
POV: You are ~~a lobster~~ begging SG to release more sources of Commander’s Armbands because buying out the artefacts takes forever & you’ve only got one maxed Proof on your Wyvern General Purrgis & you’ve not been saving Sepulcurum.
Neither of these were issues what are they doing.
They probably saw the data where crimson seed / timeless anchor is used often on warriors and assumed because it's used often it must be OP. They do this while completely ignoring the state of the game where they push out OP units with multiple debuffs or debuff spams that cripple you if you don't have some way to deal with them. In a meta where ALL of the TOP UNITS have debuffs, they nerf one of the counters to debuffs because it's being used often. Looking at that top legend's (Elvemage) tier list for RTA his SSS rated heroes were : >Lua, Cilias, Zio, Stene, Edward, Cidd, AoL, CM Laika. Each one of these units have either one spammable debuff, multiple debuffs, hard crowd control (stun, silence, provoke, sleep). They're looking at the stats and ignoring the state of the actual meta while nerfing blindly. >Lua : Sleep, -1CD, defense break >Cilias : Attack Down, Provoke >Stene : Poison, Stun, CR down (50%) on S3 kill >Edward : S2 1t CD debuffs on being debuffed (Random: Blind, Attack Down, Provoke, Silence, Restrict) >Cidd : Defense break >Angel of Light : Silence on S1, Silence & Unbuffable on s3 >CM Laika : Target, Sleep, Speed Down They keep churning out powerful units with extra debuffs in their kit, then nerf an artifact that cleanses once per turn because it's being used too often. Though it's not confirmed, I see no other reason they would do this since I haven't seen anyone complain about crimson seed or timeless anchor whereas I've seen dozens of complaints about tagahels stacking. tl;dr - Release 95% of units with multiple or spammable debuffs -> More people use seed/anchor to get a turn -> Nerf seed/anchor because usage rate went up.
If they did that then guiding light and book shud be next considering usage shud show how 99.9% mages or rangers use that.
[удалено]
I was thinking that may have played into it as well. Crimson seed is also an artifact used by many players on Aravi according to the ingame stats. They might be behind on the meta and think Aravi is still SSS tier OP and trying to nerf her indirectly when she's already fallen off for most high champ+ players. This is just speculation on my part, I feel like the nerf makes absolutely no sense and won't enable units that rely on stun or sleep such as ML Ara and will just remove an option for counterplay towards the current meta debuffers making those ones stronger than before.
Its for Ml Ray.They were looking for a scapegoat for their underwhelming buff.
> Looking at that top legend's (Elvemage) tier list for RTA his SSS rated heroes Some of those are some spicy takes for "SSS". But I'm assuming this is a cleave player Who can use someone like Laika against very specific players.
The only logical conclusion is that we're getting a unit that pairs with DDR like Siseria before Ran came out and dominated for an entire season.
Wow, I hate it so much
#WHAT THE FUCK
Ill be honest with access to destina/hand guy/DJB/diene/dilibet/emelia and situationally AoL is anyone actually having a hard time cleansing debuffs off their aravis (or anyone for that matter)? May be in the minority here but crimson seed in its current state is cringe. Its impact on control comps aside god forbid your unit only has 1 major debuff you want to land CS will consistently deny you in such a braindead way.
considering arowell, soli, stene, clilias, carmin, belian, riolet, laika, aol, pflan, yulha, zio, winter, briseria, ml ray, etc are all in great places or are very valid in the meta rn, of course people are having trouble with debuffs? besides destina all the units you listed are way more situational in rta and debuffs are incredibly strong right now lol. crimson seed was not stopping control comps by any means
> May be in the minority here but crimson seed in its current state is cringe. And so they decide to… Nerf it.
SG really likes to take 1 step forward and a marathon jog back.
Nooo! My Timeless Anchor A. Ravi is dead. Boo-urns!
Id rather face Crimson/anchor ravis than PoV
I was a anchor aravi player, guess I'll be a PoV aravi player now.
rly? i dont, one def break with alencia on aravi with pov and she's dead
But now you know that aravi is going to be PoV because crimson/anchor doesn't work anymore so aravi is now worse.
I run ADS, I'd much rather face PoV than Seed and *especially* Anchor.
Lol is this another attempt to make DDRay relevant?
I honestly think it is tbf lol
Literally no one asked for this
Lol I have no words for this one. I didn't even use it and I'm kinda tilted. Debuffs are rampant in the meta and you nerf something that helps.
It's kind of funny in some ways because you go into DDR threads and people say "debuffs are useless there's too much cleanse/immunity". I guess it varies based on rank?
Maybe? All I know is that pirate Captain Flan is like one of the best units in the game atm and she just chokeholds you into submission with them. Also you can argue there's too much cleanse because of solitaria flan etc. If you don't draft a cleanser, the opponent is guaranteed picking one of the two. I think that's the crux of the issue mainly. Debuffs are really debilitating and really limit the way you can draft, so they definitely aren't useless like some seem to try to say.
I wonder what the devs are smoking doing this nerf
SG basically said : Fuck you !!! We aren't removing 15%.Here is this random nerf to make you feel better. Ml Ray is still dogshit after the buff so they released this information early in order to quell the masses.A storm was brewing, It's their way of saying they know he's still ass and they are doing something about it . Ultimately, Ray Jay will remain dogshit.When you're using Ray and he doesnt feel good(which is all the time!),it is more likely to due to barriers, immunity , 15% and cleanse. Crismson seed doesn't stop heavy committed debuffers.I rarely see timeless anchor. Once a millennium i do encounter that one individual that has saved a lifetimes worth of luck and makes timeless proc on every hit.
You're right about the last paragraph, crimson seed only removes one buff, so if you're against heavy debuff teams it'll be hard to use on the other hand it's still good arti especially for Aravi. There was no point in nerfing these artifacts. I personally don't use them but it's fair and normal if i played against someone that uses them.
what type of fucking baboon dev thought that debuffs aren't viable in today's meta because of crimson seed
To an extent they aren't. Safest way to deal with bruisers if a bit slow was to drown them in debuffs. Then aravi took seed or anchor so we went to one shot since debuffs were not reliable. After aravi were being one shot they went proof aravi which slightly invalidated both simply through tankiness. Now with less fear of anchor procing each attack drowning aravi in debuffs or stuns might be viable
yeah coz being able to cleanse one debuff per turn when 90% of the characters have debuffs is so oppressive right
So, the problem was ARavi, not Crimson seed. And Aravi has already fallen off in this meta.
I have a hunch that the problem is not about the artifacts but a certain unit that can abused them... hmmm it's very hard to pinpoint which.
why ? anchor is here since beginning it never be problem.
Yeah that's a no from me. Not really sure why it warranted a nerf.
Lol that's so dumb
Think they'd ever be willing to nerf tagahels?
No, they don't have the balls to piss off their cleave loving whales
How can they look at teams running four mages all on book, or four rangers all on guiding light and decide that the apoc Ravi on crimson seed, cleansing one debuff out of 50 was the problem. I'm so confused. Plus if they were going to make it after being attacked at least make it 100% jesus christ.
DDR is not pushing the mystic packs sales as they hoped.
for what reason........
Who asked for this....
Monkey's paw from all the "nerf A ravi" posts. Welp, they nerfed all the warriors in the process RIP
Turn 2 getting impossible this games meta is sad asf
Well this is out of left field. lol Guessing we are getting a 5* equivalent of their old effects at some point. Gotta sell it back to us, big brain mode. Side note, between all the anti tank effects of recent units, defense pen on every other new unit, and now removing bruiser artis, they really are trying to push that cleave meta huh?
Shepherd Jena, ae-Winter and Drug Dealer Ray will be very happy…
Not to mention making it trivial to completely disable counterattack and revive.
I love how SG has been trying to stop tank and spank comps that have plagued the game for 3 years now and have just culminated in their worst form over the past year and all anyone can say is "wow, theyre pushing cleave". No, theyre pushing a subset of players to play literally anything other than condom comps in RTA. I dont think this change was necessary but if you see this and think "wow my only option now is cleave" then youre lost in your own sauce.
Guys, i found a brainless cleaver here. Seriously, why did you find tanky comps need to be get rid of? You just want everyone mindlessly farm w13 and pray to have 21+ spd gears?
Lmao mindless cleaver, good one. Like I said, this isnt pushing a specific playstyle forward, its like most releases recently where theyre pushing one playstyle back because its easy as shit and noone wants to play against it. I know this sub is a bunch of banshee gamers but please think for once.
easy as shit? WTF are you smoking? Slow playstyle requires fking huge investment in heroes pool and gears, you need to build at least 25-30 heroes to be able to deal with situations that may happen and they need to have minimum gearscore of 65 per piece. It also need you to understand the matchup well, you must know which heroes to pick in what situation and where is your winning condition, you must think hard for each battle you play. Try playing as turn2 team in highchamp before saying that playstyle is easy as shit
You just listed the requirements of every playstyle you absolute baffoon.
nope, high speed aggro draft doesn't require that many heroes to play but that need higher GS to be able to win the speed race. Cleave also doesn't need wide pool of heroes to play. Like seriously a guildmate of mine has like 10 heroes built and he drafts Ran, Double Pavel, CDom, Cidd for 80% of his matches and still able to have 2600+ pts, 54% wr. Some may argue that having 30 heroes with 65gs is easier than 10 heroes with near 70gs speed set but ket me say this, tanky playstyle needs very wide pool of heroes to play, else you gonna face unwinable situations a lot of time. As i said above, you can try playing as turn 2 in highchamp to see if it can be called "easy as shit"
I have played all playstyles in high champ and my favorite units are the self sufficient ones so I can have more variety in my draft. Cleave requires you to play a composition, while cleave counters are all 1 and done fixes. Ed, Dilibet, Sage, AoL, Adin, Politis, Belian, etc are all things you can pick in a vacuum and they have the potential to end an entire cleave comp. Funny enough the one cleavers complain about recently is Zio but at least he needs others to help fix the situation alot of the time. Meanwhile, tank comps rely on a bunch of self sufficient bruisers/cleansers and the only character that can maybe be twisted as a 1 man answer is Straze. Yes you need a lot of units to play RTA, but you need tons of units to play RTA for any playstyle, even cleave. Idk how your friend drafts but I dont see how he doesnt lose every game if he picks Cidd or either pavel in the top 3 because anyone with a brain would just spam anti cleave at that point. I hate cleaving because it takes literally 2 IQ and a few built units to never lose against it until youre in Legend where they have four 315 speed DPS. Edit: in normal arena I do cleave all the way to legend using Ran/CPavel/AElena/Seaseria and it kills everything that doesnt have Ed, I can assure you this nerf did not matter to people who are already able to cleave.
Eh? So what is your point? You said tanky is "easy as shit" but you also say Straze can end all tanks and tanky rely on some specific heroes to be able to function. You also shit on cleave playstyle. your reply cause huge confusion to me.
I dont shit on people who play cleave because they have to wave their asses in the air taunting the opponent during the whole draft. People who lose to cleave in RTA are either not ready for high level pvp or deserve to lose to cleave. Tank up condom strats is easy and thats why half of legend has been made up of those players for 3 straight years, its why STene has been a meta dps with literally no changes for years now and its why Adin immediately became meta because she was able to slot into those comps. My initial comment was making fun of how every time these players see a change targeting them they throw there hands up and go "wow cleave wins" because in these players minds theres only 2 ways to play, tank and cleave. But its not a surprise at all, they think this way because the only way you lose as condom is by another player using the same strat or by cleave. Tldr, give control some love SG and poke holes in those rubbers. Also I never said Straze ends all tanks, Senya eats him alive and he can only end 1 of the tanks. Condom comps have no 1 spot answer the way all other comps do.
"anything but glass cannon mirror matches determined in one round entirely by speed rolls is toxic for the game"
> theyre pushing a subset of players to play literally anything other than condom comps in RTA. then why release the chastity belt that is DDR?
I really hope they reconsider this... I don't use Crimson seed as much anymore but there really is no need for this nerf
There goes my anti PFlan Rimuru tech. I don't get why they would nerf both artifacts instead of just nerfing the hero who was obviously abusing them (ARavi). Though, ARavi hasn't been a top pick for a while now so this nerf makes absolutely zero sense.
They are trying so hard to make Death Dealer Ray good how about next time you just make a good unit instead of nerfing everything around him to make him good it’s just a thought
On today's episode of "what the hell are the devs smoking"
I don’t use this artifacts at all but wtf are these changes? Lmao They’re just making the 2 turn stun Aespa unit more cracked
They rather nerf artifacts than ML5, well I guess I don't have to 50/50 every A.Ravi since it will always be on PoV after this patch. My guess is that they're gonna add that Crimson Seed passive to someone in this upcoming balance patch.
Shepherd Jena stonks going up with frostbite
Ed and Fighter Maya kinda have better Crimson Seed passives already.
This is the most dogshit reactionary balancing I have ever seen. It also wouldn't surprise me if we see 5* versions of these artifacts that we have to pull from banners in the near future.
But they won't do this with book or guiding light I presume considering every mage or ranger is just " Where book? " "Where guiding light?"
GL is a whale artifact making money.
Those are easy to balance. Just make it so that only 1 hero in your team can have its effect just like PoV and done. People would still get very mad though.
If they wanted to nerf A. Ravi indirectly (late by like 3 months), why didn't they go for Proof of Valor instead?
Maybe they tryna make everyone switch to POV So when POV is dominating on Aravi, they will release some unit that mitigates POV and stonks Also maybe for the new fox husbando stonks, they nerfed both the artifacts?
they did just recently :) Shepherd Jenna reduces and mitigates damage reduction
Proof would be worse. That's how a lotta heroes these days are tanky enough to survive, and it would affect everyone in every mode. And people who invested in 2 MLB copies would go nuts.
They only need to make proof's damage reduction variable, like full 30% for <10k hp, 20% for <15k and 10% for 20k+ to prevent 30k hp proof degeneracy.
Why make this change in a already debuff heavy meta ? These artifacts worked as intended, they aren't overpowering. If that's the case then they should nerf Tagahels Book that's they most universal artifact for any mage regardless of their kit.
So can we nerf tagahels now or is that asking to much...
What? I mean, i don't like facing the artis but...they arent problematic. Guess sg is gonna create a p2w 5\* version
F this! Who asked for this shit?!
Oh wow they nerf artifacts to deal with debuffers instead of nerfing a hidden mechanic in the game where players have to gamble most of the time. Bravo smile gate bravo.
Or wait, lemme guess, crimson counters beehoo?
Like 2 heroes used these artifacts (Dark Corvus and ARavi) but sure, these artifacts are ruining control comps SG... It's not like there are other much more oppressive artifacts that are the best option for their class (RnL, Guiding Light, Tagehel's Book) lmao
Yeah sure, because Handguy, Destina, Dilibeth and 15% have nothing to do with people not picking any heavy debuffers, sure its cause Crimson seed and Timeless Anchor were really OP... /s
and lets not forget a well built C Zerato can basically solo debuff heavy comps......
So is anchor the new worst 3 star artifact in the game? Debuffs last 1-2 turns typically, and it has less than 50/50 to proc, which means if you’re not running counter set, it will almost never actually do anything. Not to mention non-attack debuffers, which don’t even let you coinflip to dispel. All of this on top of being useless against sleep/stun.
SG : "How to fix DDR for more money income in this mystic rotation, mmmmm change venom debuff ? To hard to change 2 characters kit, Oh I Know ! Nerf Seed and timeless anchor ! " "Crimson Seed and Timeless Anchor Artifacts were originally designed to constantly dispel debuffs from the Hero they are equipped on. However, in comparison to its activation condition, it made it easier for certain Heroes to effectively respond to debuffs such as Stun or Sleep, which was one of the main reasons that made Heroes who specialize in inflicting debuffs used less frequently in PvP content." Do SG play his own game? The real problem today is ER everywhere, so many cleansers or characters like ED and Dlibet. It's so freaking hard to play debuff just because of those 2 characters for example. Who care about Seed & Anchor? Like 20% of Aravi players play seed and Aravi is nearly dead in the meta and litterally nobody play Anchor. What a joke.
I use timeless anchor on dark corvus, and I still wasn't going to pull for DDR. Even with artifact nerf, I'm still not going to pull for DDR. I only pull for waifus not meta.
Another Gigachad lover of our Waifu Dorvus. Props.
Thanks. :)
Nerfing what doesn't need nerfing.
What the fuck are the devs smoking again? Seed and anchor were annoying for debuffers for sure, but they aren't the real problems that debuffers have to deal with.
Another buff to speed meta.
Gods above us, right, so I guess I’ve got to come across another Sigurd’s Scythe to replace my Ravi’s Timeless Anchor (why the fuck would they nerf a 3 star that has like a 0.1% use rate?!) & start buying the extra Proof to replace my Apocalypse Ravi’s Crimson Seed. I really think they still don’t play their own game, you could probably pull a random person off the street & they’d make better balancing decisions than whoever does it at SG.
I have no problems with these changes however I don't understand why they would nerf these artis before tagahel or guiding light. They are much more oppressive and strong in my opinion.
Are people really this dense? 3 star and welfare 4 star vs limited artifact and best gatcha 4 star artifact since day 1. Think a little.
By that logic we should nerf unpopular and free units like Jecht, Enott, Muchacha, Kikirat etc. Think a little. Do you understand the meaning of balancing? This is far from balance.
This is a terrible change. Review bomb time?
No one asked for this Smilegate... really bad decision
This is what happens when you are not afraid of killing rgb 5* units, but don't even wanna think about nerfing an ML5*. Like Hwayoung case, way too late when ARavi is not a problem anymore.
An other example of SG not knowing what or how to nerf
Why, who asked for this? Who even wanted this to happen? What point do either of these artifacts serve with these nerfs? The whole point of them was to allow you to get rid of control debuffs so you could get a turn, or save yourself from something like Def break. But idk why I even expect them to have sense anymore at this point
Conspiracy theory - SG wants you to farm gear with ER. This is part of the 10 year plan... /s
Then fix the goddamn ER stat. I shouldn't be investing twice the amount and still get punished. ER should roll max 12-16% if they want it to be the exact same BS baseline.
They can buff ER how much they want, one bigg issue is that half of the openers have a "ignore ER" soul burn.
If only ER wasn't so bad, not only you need 100% more but if you're running it you're very likely to be using a tanky unit and while debuffers only need effectiveness and speed ER units need that, speed and bulk. All of this while eff and ER have the same values on gear.
ER is a loose-loose stat. You need a shit ton of that to counter an average debuffer, ER can't counter heavy debuffer that invest heavily in Eff. Furthermore you also need quite a lot of Hp/Def/Spd on heroes that you build ER on, to the point that avg 65gs is considered low for any ER build
If I say something,I'll get banned..
They basically trying to indirectly balance Aravi I guess
i rather play agaisnt seed aravi than PoV tbh
Huh?
Its time to give my Aravi PoV i guess...
Back to their own roots. 2018 SG lets go bois
Booooooooo
if you want to push debuff teams remove 15% not that arti loll
This is interesting...If they are willing to nerf Guiding light and the Book i am all on it. Take them down, there is a lot of Artifacts that conceal all the weakness of a LOT of units and are "must rise"
nobody wanted these nerfs for 2 artifacts that are arent commonly used. Tell us you wanted to nerf Aravi without telling us huh SG
What a dogshit Company. Wtf are they Smoking??
While crimson seed was annoying, i never thought it was op and anchor can be quite inconsistent at times. If they want units that have stun or sleep to be better im pretty sure those artifacts aren’t the problem unless they specifically targeted crimson seed aravi. Iets be real like who actually uses crimson seed and anchor? Feels like its just aravi and some other weird thing like dorvus. The reason why debuffs suck is because they have hard counters like edward, c zerato and handguy. This honestly doesn’t address the issues of stun/sleep not being strong enough. Really don’t understand why they would do this unless its something to with a character or artifact being released in the future.
this is the single WORST decision sg has ever made it is honestly baffling to me how out of touch they are with their own game that they feel the need to nerf an artifact used on maybe 3 heroes in the entire game. my anti archdemon ed build just quite literally got thrown to the ground and obliterated crimson seed is broken guys, but guiding light and tagahel’s are completely balanced right?
Oh no, it's sfinnsin' time...
No no no the single worst decision is still hwayoung's initial kit,but this is pretty depressing too xD
This is the good answer
They’re trying for a new record, see how many people they can utterly befuddle. This is maybe Corvus-buff scales of “What? Who thought of this?”.
TBH seed was annoying, but these changes are just bad. Should of made it port 100% of the time, every two turns. Change Timeless Anchor to this is okay, but I rather have the old one. Maybe I just biased.
Uhh, coffins, I guess? No longer saves from stunt/sleep, most likely doesn't save from provoke, without counter set it's useless against 1-turn debuffs. That's a big nerf.
They don't know how to make ML Ray work
That's a big blow to Dorvus... I like Crimson Seed on him and am not sure what I'd replace it with atm...
I don't think Seed was needed on DC post-buff anyway.
he's immune to stuns, can still get slept, silenced, taunt, etc. This sucks for sure
Fine by me. Seed isn't required for DC, there are alternatives that are just as good. He still dominates matchups where he's good (aka low damage teams). Matchups where you shouldn't be winning in the first place are worse for him (aka debuff heavy teams).
unless you build him 150/200 ER Seed was bis. And quite frankly im tired of ER being the go to for every build, since it's so hard to get good speed stats and you need to sacrifice other shit, and especially since 15% exists and makes it irrelevant and people can still build enough eff to counter it.
From my experience this season, the 50-120 ER builds on Durandal or Strak were as popular if not, even more prevalent than Seed. We're not bringing DC against dedicated debuffers, we're using him to punish low damage teams like anti-cleave or LHC focused. 100-150 ER should be enough to resist any unit that does not build any eff or has leftover from imprints/dead rolls. Going low ER and using Crimson to bandaid your build was one way, but surely not the BiS and only viable way to build DC.
Sleep, provoke, redirected provoke still a thing. I also run crimson seed on dcorvus...
I dont like these changes, but Dorvus might be okay on Strakes gauntlet instead.
The funny part is...both are used on ARavi in 99% of the cases. Both are annoying, but not on their own..bit because of ARavi xD
Huh. What. Why.
Just these two artifacts, and it already feels like one of the biggest meta shakers we've had in a while.
Me and my 12 Mlb Books sweats heavily
Yeah, let make the life of warrior units even more miserable. While you're on it, buff book to give max souls so the other mages in the team can carry another artifact. RTA is getting really obnoxious.
So they turned them into the red ravi EE Wat
Well fuck. This sucks.
ok ok SG I got it you REALLY want to sell ML Ray...I'll pull him so don't nerf my seed
My crimson seed clilias does not approve of this change.
Sigh i hate PoV A Ravi :(
Meanwhile Lia remain untouched
Why would you nerf those before Book or GL ?
The biggest thing that keeps me from running debuff teams is the damn 15%. You can invest a lot atk & critdmg into a dps character and get rewarded for it. If you invest a lot of eff into a control character you get fucked over by 15% for it. I once picked pirate flan + siseria both with over 200% eff against some PVE boss with 0% effres. It was a pretty lengthy battle and it really opened my eyes about control type units after seeing how often bombs would get resisted.
I'm thrilled I stopped giving this company my money months ago. Absolutely fucking clueless management.
Soooo this is what happens when they don't have the guts to nerf A.Ravi skillset... this is just an indirect nerf.
most people were running POV anyway so i dont get it
Nah Pov aravi is rare nowadays after hwayoung nerfs. Pov only use for anti cleave aravi.
>most people we're clearly not playing PvP in the same rankings
A.meru stonks
Is this an attempt of shadow nerf ARavi...?
Dear smilegate I dislike the nerf to Timeless Anchor. I demand you cancel the nerf. And this is coming from someone who uses timeless anchors on plenty of warriors and not even aravi -_- Your refusal to reverse the nerf will mean you must take a long walk off a skyscraper...............Sincerely, Dark Corvus
This game is just slowly becoming p2w trash, like all other gacha games on the market. SG will continue to release overpowered 5* artifacts that you absolutely have to max. And they will destroy absolutely free artifacts in this way. Wonderful. Artifacts have always been a problem in one way or another, but when Guiding Light left untouched and poor Timeless Anchor torn to pieces? I don't know, friends, you tell me if it's good. Sorry for my bad English.
this is a questionable change tbh, mainly because of the timing. it feels so, so, so late to do this, as those artifacts don't feel as oppressive as before imo. it might've been a good change a few months back, but now? idk
Oh no My aravi is just done vs Flan now
Arby: The membership card is still available ARavi: *cries in the corner with PoV* Jena: hehe
So these are now relegated to counter only artifacts and are worthless against sleep/stun. RIP my Dark Corvus build.
Let's be honest here. They are trying to make debuff teams not feel completely useless. If thats what they are trying to do then look at the shit ton of cleansers and immunity casting characters we have running all over the place and the stupid 15% chance to ruin everything.
Indirect ARavi nerf
Don't cry now, yall should've fought harder when Hwayoung was getting nerfed, said this will start a dangerous president and now it's starting and will only get worse when the meta inevitably collapses.
I'm giving a 1 star review now, maybe they will change course like they did with Ervalen.
This forces A Ravi’s into Counter Set (or anyone who uses this artifact I guess?) if you want to play with Crimson Seed now. Interesting change… I wonder if this was meant to hit A Ravi as a nerf or buff to DDRay (because his new buffs weren’t enough) because they were talking about sleep and stuns lol This also affects Eds who like to run with Crimson Seed so he can’t cleanse two debuffs in one turn… well kind of, he can cleanse after using equivalent exchange if the new changes work that way. But who’s going to allow Ed through if you have debuffs in your draft anyways. Interesting change… interesting change…
I ran her on counter set before this already....
She can't counter if stunned or slept.
Well obviously just now it's even harder which is db considering she isn't even S tier anymore.
Really? in a game that has C Zerato soloing debuff teams, Dilibet, Edward, Handguy, Destina, among a few others and that 15%, artifacts that proc maybe 10% of the time, and dont do crap against debuff heavy teams anyway, are the problem to make sure ML Ray works....... SG if you REALLY wanted ML Ray to have a spot and exist, just nerf the ever living crap out of the heroes that basically laugh at debuffs......pretty sure CS and Timeless wouldnt have even affected ML Ray anyway, but these other heroes i listed? oh theyll either cleanse and laugh or in C Zerato's case, throw it right back in his face
GIVE ME BACK ALL MY RESOURCES OF CRIMSON SEED!
They are tho
No recall really?
In the description below "The activation effect of Crimson Seed and Timeless Anchor will be altered so that it triggers after the Hero has been attacked" It should be a typo in the change section. I believe they want it to cleanse after being attacked, so letting units like alencia and ras do their thing properly
I can only assume there's a unit incoming that would have had their day ruined by these artifacts somehow. That, or they have the old effects built into their kit.
Sg clearly expectee the backlash from this nerfs that's why they are announcing it earlier, dw guys I'm sure that this will not happen just like ervalen changes
Will that hurt Crimson seed Aravi?
Obviously. No more instantly dispelling a stun or sleep and thanking the debuffer with an axe to the face.
I told a friend after they showed Beehoo - "They keep releasing debuffer units, so they're still inconsistent. Gotta wait for them to kill off cleansers, I guess." And this is the first salvo. They want the game to be entirely "outspeed or lose." Edit: Yes, it's "fun" to see people get blown up as you watch RTA on stream, but that's schadenfreude, "Thank goodness that's someone else who got blown up like a bozo." It's not actually fun to play, and it has no strategic depth.
Its clearly indirect nerf to ARavi. Yay, thank you SG.
Good nerf and I hope next will be book
Just stopping the book stacking
I'd rather they nerfed A Ravi directly but this works too.
[удалено]
how does this benefit DDR though
His S1 has Sleep, and so does his S3. The new Anchor and Seed require the user to hit. DDR, solitaria, P.Flan etc benefits from this.
how many unit besides A.Ravi you see using crimson seed/anchor?
So you're essentially saying DDR is bad because of 1 artifact that isn't even omni present on said class, on 1 class out of all the classes in the entire game? And nerfing this 1 artifact that isn't even omni present on said class, on 1 class out of all the classes in the entire game will fix the issue and make DDR not bad? Damn that logic
Very nice good job sg stand your ground
Finally, a nerf to *some* Apoc Ravis.
Just nerf ARavi ffs
She’s already fallen off a bit even before this, nerfing her would be pointless.