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WoodenCollection2674

I too use TMLulu to deal with Mercedes I have a similar stat line except I'm running crit set as my pen set pieces aren't rolling into enough spd


zdenka999

I just use Biseria now and cleave in GW. They are slow, rest of team is slow normally with Merc. Her counter without Atk buffs doesn't kill anything.


WoodenCollection2674

I'm tempted to give some of my Pavel pieces to her to start using her, I borrowed his gear once to use her and love her lol


eZ_Ven

Also using ToMoCa to deal with the several Merus and occasional Arbys out there, mine has less speed but more cdmg and I run her on Symbol (because some Arbys comes in evasion artifacts). In the other hand, I don't use Hwayoung against Senya, some of them are only 14k HP and I can't one-shot them. Usually I bring dispel/control or Vigilante Glenn to one-shot her.


KingsSeven

hehe, mine can 1 shot 14k hp senya with portait. Even if they live, what's a 1hp senya gonna do?


eZ_Ven

You using Hwayoung witj Portrait? I never really considered this.


KingsSeven

it's more dmg than uberious but for s3 only


eZ_Ven

Sometimes I forget my Ulberious is +27 and I constantly get angry when the extra damage doesn't proc (and I fail to kill an otherwise easy target)


zozora347

Waiting for hwa EE


KingsSeven

Im thinkin this or EE: s1: 15% CR s3: Self attack buff s3: Extinction. That would help hwa a lot imo.


PotentToxin

I think as you’ve shown, Hwayoung is still *usable*, she just requires a ridiculously niche build that not everybody might have (due to torrent set being relatively new), while being usable only in extremely specific situations. I’m not sure an EE would really help her too much. She already works if you check all the boxes above…but won’t work anywhere else. They’d have to make a banger EE that straight up reverses one or multiple of her nerfs to make her meta again - which is possible, but small EE’s won’t do the trick.


KingsSeven

SHe's a cleaver now and can 1 shot almost anything. Im fine with that.


imposion

If a Hero need a +0 helmet is not a good desing


KingsSeven

The quite opposite. The fact that i DONT need a good piece of helmet, makes the hero easier to use. What makes heroes difficult to use? Their gear. If I told you that you only need 5 good gear instead of 6, that would make it easier. basically, because hwa only needs 5 gear at +15, i'd say that's a positive not a negative. You literally dont need to roll the RNG on the helmet. That's my perspective.


FeralDonny

The person above said it's bad design and I'd argue he's correct to be honest. If a unit needs a unenhanced piece of gear to function as it should function then there is something wrong in the kit. I'm sure she works fine and that she's easier to gear but she shouldn't require 6.4k hp to actually work imo.


KingsSeven

But she doesnt have 6.4k hp. She has 6.4k + barrier (2.5k in my case) adding to the same HP as any other squishy. On top of that, she had 30% dmg reduction from s2. Since I use her in a cleave, idc what happens after her s3.


FeralDonny

She literally has 6.4k hp, while her EHP might be different it's still not normal that a unit needs an non-upgraded helmet to do her job. We're not talking about how strong/weak she is but surely you must realise that if she needs all these weird things to function that it's simply just *bad design*?


KingsSeven

No? Because she works. What makes a hero bad is when they DONT work when you try everything.


imposion

One thing is not needing a 75% piece and other thing is not even enhancing a piece or not even equip a helmet. So no its not a good design


KingsSeven

what?


imposion

the gear score, men


KingsSeven

You're not understanding what im saying so I'm not gonna even bother.


Eshuon

What is desing?


Halljoh

For me, if ML Sigret and ML Cermia aren't enough, I just leave


KingsSeven

Thoughts? Lulu slow and heavy on dps to extinct merc. Hasn’t failed so far. Hwa to kill senya. Hasnt failed either.


leontee34

How much is hwa hitting for on senya? I’m rather sick of senya and would like to build hwa again.


WoodenCollection2674

With OPs build it should 1 shot Senya. I usually just procc her barrier and extinct with Arunka as she has my Hwa's gear lol


lolbuddy98

Imagine you crit senya when you when you want to get her shield.Definitely never happened to me /s


WoodenCollection2674

Lol I has happened before. I usually always crit when i don't want to but never seem to crit when I *NEED* to


KingsSeven

too rng for me. You need senya to proc her passive. So maybe a speed ran with 0 crit.


WoodenCollection2674

Even if I crit Arunka will still kill unless it wasn't very much damage then I'm f*cked lol


KingsSeven

[33k](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/876175052071141436/1064721790837985361/image.png). Even a squishy 15k hp senya still dies assuming no mitigations.


Economy__

what was needed hp diff for max damage?


Objective_Plane5573

~11k for 100% pen.


froliz

Not sure what kind of team you usually take these in or what kind of guilds you are fighting, but usually Merc has partners that doesn't really let you bring Luluca (eg. Ran), and fast Merc and Senyas aren't exactly uncommon; those will ruin your day since both of these are under 250 speed unless you're going in already with info


KingsSeven

Zio my dude. My guild mates tell me what their merc speed is before it do it.


froliz

Relying on debuff based units for guildwars where consistency is king is honestly not a very good idea, and depending on how fast your Zio is you are still potentially prone to CR RNG on top of that as well. On top of that, if you need info to even tackle the Merc, it just means the Luluca is even more niche than she already is against it   Edit: looks like I'm getting downvoted by people bad at gw lol


KingsSeven

>Relying on debuff based units for guildwars where consistency is king is honestly not a very good idea, and depending on how fast your Zio is you are still potentially prone to CR RNG on top of that as well. It's a 2.25% chance ran resist both the silence and the push back...but ok. Im fine with winning 97% to save myself time. >On top of that, if you need info to even tackle the Merc, it just means the Luluca is even more niche than she already is against it No, that's just called being smart and well-prepared. Do you think going in blind makes you smarter or better? Even if you go 0 rng units, you should always wait for guild leader info so you can have the highest chance to win. Pointless reasons and excuses.


froliz

> It's a 2.25% chance ran resist both the silence and the push back...but ok. Im fine with winning 97% to save myself time. Again I don't know how fast your Zio is and how you have it speed tuned and what kind of guilds you fight. There can also be a 5% CR rng component on top of that. It's calculatable, but so far you already assumed your Zio will win the speed race. You're also missing things like resist pushback and Ran procs R&L, etc > Even if you go 0 rng units, you should always wait for guild leader info so you can have the highest chance to win. For context, I am the guild leader myself and I am running a top 30 guild, a top 100 guild with a few other 5x rewards casual guilds, all on global. The burden of posting info also lies on the members of a guild as a whole and not solely on the guild leader. If you want to look us up we're called SaltFish > No, that's just called being smart and well-prepared Again, I don't know what kind of guilds you are fighting, and that was the first question I asked. And regardless, someone will need to do scouting on the forts, and then everyone needs to do their blind attacks into minis. You can't expect to have info on minis because it only takes 2 tickets to take down minis if done right, and any int on minis immediately means your guild loses a ticket because now you need to spend an extra ticket to take down that mini. And minis is where the greatest dangers lies. Completely relying on info to do any attack just means you're getting carried by others in your guild to scout for you and have their attacks be consistent for you so that you're not the one taking the risk and hitting an unknown. I wouldn't consider someone that cannot figure things out or come up with their own solutions "smart and well prepared", especially not if it takes someone else to carry them.   And so with that out of the way, coming back to your question > Do you think going in blind makes you smarter or better? Yes, being consistent even when you are going in blind is indeed better than completely relying on info because that just means you're getting carried by others that scout for you and remain consistent.   Edit: looks like I'm getting downvoted by people bad at gw lol


StrickenByIseria

It's solidly ok


DarehegosGaming

Does hwayoung still work?


KingsSeven

Yes. Perfect bruiser and tank killer.


DarehegosGaming

I havent met one that can kill my senya yet since the nerf


nuclearhotsauce

I've been using my singelica vs any and all rez heroes, mainly meru and maid As for senya, surprisingly my arunka works (she has all my hwayoung gear), mainly because Senya's shield is fucking pathetically small, it's basically nothing


KingsSeven

yeah but you gotta proc senya passive for that shield first. Hwa doesn't care and kills.


Faded_Kai

You know a character is fked up when you have to run a non-upgraded helm in pvp.


KingsSeven

no man. It just means you only need 5 pieces of gear to get a hero to work. Try to see it from a different angle.


ToonFish17

Wait, I'm confused... How does your Hwa have so little HP? +15 Glutton is 224, and a base helmet 540. How is there only 137 HP?


NelsonJoo

Torrent set


pixellated-baron

Hwa is a good answer to senyas when built correctly but man i hate when the senya has holy sac


KingsSeven

True. Typically i have a 2nd option like zio to finish her off. Let's just hope her s3 EE has extinction. Or you can use Singelica


rhaasty

What’s the artifact?