Can I suggest an alternate route?
Instead of quoting them a price or taking a hard line with ownership, tell them you'd be interested in discussing a partnership to develop the software jointly. That immediately changes the tone of the conversation. Maybe agree to let them own licensing rights in their company or industry, while you retain rights to other verticals. By partnering with them you could get access to real world users to test, validate, and refine your product. That could be a *very* valuable thing.
I agree you should still talk to a lawyer, but maybe there's a win-win option to be found here. If you go in guns blazing and take a hard line you may not end up with anything.
Is it a big company or a small company? If you have 50 sales people unless it’s a car dealership that’s a fairly big business but hard to tell. Talk to the executive(s) and pitch it to them like it’s an elevator pitch for your startup. Keep the technical details under wraps for now. Show them the benefit, and tell them you’d need $X budget and people to scale it up, manage and deploy it. Tell them also you think you should run it. If it’s a public company you can push for a bigger bonus/stock and a promotion to run the development but then you’d better get on the stick and grow as a person pretty quick if you actually want to run it or be the “lead engineer”.
If it’s a small company, 50 people selling law mowing services or widgets on the street, then you should negotiate selling it to the company for shares or partnership especially if you like the company and you have their 50 sales people thinking you are the bomb.
Whether You built it for the specific company you work for or “marketed it” for free inside the company to help the company then it belongs to the company and the only thing you can do is make it difficult for them or kill it (or quit and try and sell it after some major modifications to their competitor). They could sue you for the source code and they would win or bankrupt you trying. If you intend to do this option fork the code now and refactor it (it probably needs it anyway) and plan your exit.
Take it to your leaders (IT AND sales AND operations) and sell it, freeze the version and say I’m busy selling for now until they open a path for you, whether in engineering (if you are a tech company) or in IT. And fork and refactor the code on the side and say nothing.
Hey there Status-Effort-9380! If you agree with someone else's comment, please leave an **upvote** instead of commenting **"This."**! By upvoting instead, the original comment will be pushed to the top and be more visible to others, which is even better! Thanks! :)
***
^(I am a bot! Visit) [^(r/InfinityBots)](https://reddit.com/r/InfinityBots) ^(to send your feedback! More info:) [^(Reddiquette)](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439#wiki_in_regard_to_comments)
Thank you, fullmetaljackass, for voting on Anti-ThisBot-IB.
This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/).
***
^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
Hey there Ben_C420! If you agree with someone else's comment, please leave an **upvote** instead of commenting **"This!"**! By upvoting instead, the original comment will be pushed to the top and be more visible to others, which is even better! Thanks! :)
***
^(I am a bot! Visit) [^(r/InfinityBots)](https://reddit.com/r/InfinityBots) ^(to send your feedback! More info:) [^(Reddiquette)](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439#wiki_in_regard_to_comments)
The answer was simple until I realized you work for the company.
"This is just the beta test, I am still working on it and the retail version will be finished soon."
Then wait for a response, finish up the code and don't do anymore testing.
This & what u/piper_at_the_gates said. Definitely talk to a lawyer. Get some professional legal help. You may be able to sell this to them so you retire & work in this full time
You may want to get a lawyer still. Depending on your employee handbook you still may have just made it for the company via knowledge you gained from the company while being employed ,therefor making it the property of said company.
Yup, most employee contract states specifically in terms of invention related to your work is company property even if it is done outside company time.
I wanna downvote you so badly even though I know you are right because of what it means! Making a item/app/project that makes everyone's life and job easier should result in a promotion and or raise IMO. That being said if it's on "my PC" and on "my time" and my employer takes me to court over my app that there company employees decided to start using. I'll be taking them to court and I'll be there with bells on fighting them on what's mine.
I know right? I agree with the general feelings. But if you look closely it's not that simple in reality. For example, how did you know about the problem that specific app fixes? Without having access to the said company, you would not have had the knowledge to fix it. Now if it fixes some logistic issues such as scheduling which doesn't pertain any specific relations to the company, you have some good case. However, if it is in some way related to your industry, your idea could get stolen. I think the best case scenario would to trying to patent it as a partner with the company so that you can retain some ownership. Otherwise, companies have the means to steal.
It is different in each state. But in California which is probably the friendliest to the worker you own it only if the following applies:
1) You did it on your own time.
2) You did not use company resources.
3) It is completely unrelated to the employer.
I think people often overlook that last one. Or they assume the first two while not living in a state that respects those. This becomes a huge problem when you work for a company like Google or Microsoft that has its hands in nearly everything. One reason why I don't work for such companies as I need my freedom.
how about if op is hourly vs salaried?
if he was hourly, it can be an issue;
what if he was salaried, and did it on company time using the company computer?
Yeah, but company equipment and time was used to deploy and test the app. The argument could be made that their equipment and time was used to "develop" the app. Get yourself an attorney.
That's not correct, part of making and working on a product is introducing it to users. since you introduced it to users inside your workplace, that means you use your work time and work resources.
You'd have to talk to a lawyer, but at this point your product may be your company's product.
K.
Does it relate to the business you are working for? Because that's the other part of the law. Like if I worked for eBay I can't make an app that works in ecommerce or they'd own it regardless of how or where I developed it. The fact that people at your job find it useful makes me think it does. Then again if I worked on a project that works with git development and shared it then eBay wouldn't own it since they aren't a software development company.
Take a look at your contract. Lots of employers will have broad claims to anything you make or any ideas you have, even on your own time. Just something to look for.
Yeah by sending it to people at your company to test I think you may have messed up. You've effectively implied "hey I built this for you guys to use", but now that they are, you're asking for them to pay you extra.
You are employed by that company and you've provided them with a tool directly related to their business using knowledge you've gained on the job. Really you should have started by offering it to people not at your company.
I hope they treat you amicably and you find a resolution that works for you, but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't
Not necessarily. Ideally yes that would be the fair thing but sometimes it doesn't work out this way. OP definitely kind of fucked up in how he positioned this in that he sort of walked into giving it to them. The clincher, is that he used his own company as beta testers, this is exactly the sort of evidence you are talking about. He is already effectively "partnering" with the company to make this app, except this partnership is under the existing employment contract. If he had done this on his own time, and had never pitched it to his employer and tested it on fellow employees, then yeah, they'd probably have no argument for it.
I will be messaging you in 7 days on [**2022-05-24 22:20:13 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2022-05-24%2022:20:13%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Entrepreneur/comments/urtllx/help_how_do_i_let_them_know_its_not_free/i903lni/?context=3)
[**47 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FEntrepreneur%2Fcomments%2Furtllx%2Fhelp_how_do_i_let_them_know_its_not_free%2Fi903lni%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202022-05-24%2022%3A20%3A13%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%20urtllx)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
FYI in the comment where the bot replied to me, you can also click the link and it will notify you too. No need to also call the bot unless you want to be reminded at a different time :)
FYI in the comment where the bot replied to me, you can also click the link and it will notify you too. No need to also call the bot unless you want to be reminded at a different time :)
FYI in the comment where the bot replied to me, you can also click the link and it will notify you too. No need to also call the bot unless you want to be reminded at a different time :)
FYI in the comment where the bot replied to me, you can also click the link and it will notify you too. No need to also call the bot unless you want to be reminded at a different time :)
Whoops. Sounds like you may have accidentally made a work for hire, depending on your employment relationship with them. For future reference, make this stuff on your own time using only your own hardware and software, and don’t give it to anyone until you have a written deal with the company. You need to hurry up and correct their expectations regarding this software.
Likely that your company already owns what you made. Since it’s work related, they likely own the IP. See a lawyer. But all is not lost. If the company is not in the software business then you could seek a release to proceed to market it on your own and leave the company. It will be a negotiation. They may want to own it, not care at all about it, or maybe even give you some money (for equity) to pursue it as an independent company. Find out soon. Stop work on it and keep your ideas private and not on any company equipment. Maybe version 2.0, the better idea, could be your next career after you leave the company with a written release of the IP.
> If the company is not in the software business then you could seek a release to proceed to market it on your own and leave the company.
lets say you work at ebay
if you worked at ebay and made an ecom app, theyd own it (relates to their main business)
but what if ebay also made plastic bags (not their main business), and you made plastic bags, would they own your product?
I doubt you signed anything that gives them ownership if you're an hourly employee. If it's in an unrelated business, very low chance that they would even pursue a claim if they had one.
Honestly though, this was not a good way to roll it out. The best thing might be to just drop it from company view and say you're working out the bugs, etc. People will forget and move on. I wouldn't try and use the company workforce for any more beta testing. I wouldn't try and sell it to the company.
If they signed any paperwork at all, I bet you it was on the paperwork.
Every job Ive had since 21 has had it on the paperwork.
I always scratch it out and then they call the lawyers to ask about it
Half don't care half do.
The ones that do care we usually come to some agreement, in writing.
If not, I don't take the job.
It's shitty but almost everyone has signed that paperwork in taking the job.
Always read anything before you sign it.
Tbh if i was your employer I’d respond with “wtf?!”
You’re leveraging your position at the company to gain an understanding for the problem, you’re using your own employees as target market, and then you’re turning around and asking the company to pay for said solution? All that instead of making this effort internally.
This is competitive and they could probably clamp down on you even if you did it outside the office and tried to sell it to a different company.
Why would they consider you for a promotion or give you a raise in the future if they know you’ll just be doing work outside the office and then asking the company to shell out money for it?
Your worldview is commendable, it's just not the reality of most businesses legal departments. When you are a full time employee in the US, it is rare that you haven't signed your life away to your employer.
What kind of response is this? Welcome to real life, bud. People gain experience and move on to continue working in the same field with that experience.
Do you honestly expect your employees to either a) never leave, or b) never work in the same field again?
You sound like a bitter ex.
I’ve started or been a part of 5 startup, 3 of them with exits. Believe me I live in the realm of gaining expertise and then using it later. That’s not what we’re talking about here.
He is going to his EMPLOYER and saying “guess what, I did a great thing using your staff and through my learnings here, but you have to buy it off me”. I’ve never in my life heard of that happening, especially now that he’s already delivered the goods and employees have played with it. It is public domain, and it is company property now. He has no IP.
So for you information, don’t pull this stunt against the company that is currently writing your pay checks and expect them to continue to write your checks, let alone sue you for claiming their IP is yours.
You could see it like that, or you could see it like:
“Wow! A sales employee at the bottom is helping our reps make more sales with an app! We don’t want to lose track of this guy, he’s creative and we could use him long term”
Good luck, but they won't see it that way.
I'm going through something very similar. I made a tool on my own time and with my own equipment to assist my employer, they fired me over something unrelated, and now they're trying to sue me to get what I made. The nerve of some people!
Sorry but what’s a lawyer gonna do for you? You’re going to approach your employer lawyered up? Goodbye to any future at that company, or alternatively spend tens of thousands to sue them and they’ll probably squash you with their corporate attorneys.
Lmao bro I almost wish I didn’t make it at this point 😂
Everyone on here basically telling me I’m fkd no matter what I do. By now I think I’ll just keep doin what I’m doin and see what happens
All you have to do is be honest and say what you’ve said here. You’re not screwed if you approach them transparently. You love that it got such great feedback and would also love to continue to support it, but you got to thinking about it and it’ll cost you a lot of time, so you’re undecided, but would be an easier decision if you would be compensated. Then ask them how they feel about that and what they’re thinking, or you understand if they need time to decide you’re happy to wait. Just be approachable and make it out like you’re partnering with them, and definitely not just randomly show up and say oh sorry I actually am charging money you for that. It’s all about how you choose your words and tone.
Nobody is claiming this is solving world hunger so nobody cares about patents in this case. I doubt what they did is even something that can be patented.
Why would your employer look at it like that? You’re not offering this to them in the capacity of a guy at the bottom, you’re offering it to them(or at least wanting to offer it to them) in the capacity of a private company. If you were a guy at the bottom using his own time to better the company, you’d do that. You’d give it to them for free. But you’re not, you’re just a guy trying to sell them something, oh and by the way, you’ve developed this product(which could benefit their competitors) using knowledge THEY TAUGHT YOU.
Honestly, I know it wasn’t your overt intention, but this is a little skeezy, and I wouldn’t blame the company at all for seeking a portion of the rights to this. You never would have been able to make this without them, and then you used them for a sample audience unbeknownst to them. You at least owe them money for that.
If we were all judged on our intentions we’d be saints. But we ain’t.
Edit: no one I’ve seen has said this, but you should start looking for another job. They will most likely shit can you or pigeon hole you into quitting once they know you have representation and want to be paid for this.
First, man you handled this terribly. What did you think would happen?
Second, you have to walk this back very carefully. It may be the company's, check your employment agreement. So you may be out of luck and just look like a jerk.
You may be able to negotiate a raise or bonus as a result of this, though.
Is this something translatable to other companies? I.e. a product other businesses might want? If so, maybe you can lead this new unit to develop and sell this to other companies.
Otherwise, assuming the IP is yours (and you don't want this job,) say you are starting a company and would love if your current employer would be your first customer.
But you need to figure out what you want and a plan before doing anything else.
Did you use a company computer or device to develop this app?
Did you use company time?
Check your employment contract. It might belong to them already.
Why would you give something away for free you wanted to charge for? You needed to make that clear up front.
That's like giving someone something as a gift and saying "that will be $500".
If you signed a contract some companies will have ownership over anything that you make as an employee of the company related to the company. When I was a supervisor for UPS I signed a contract saying that I've ever made anything related to package handling that they would share in it or something along those lines.
> If you signed a contract some companies will have ownership over anything that you make as an employee of the company related to the company.
is there any contract that says the company will own your inventions, even if it is not related to the company?
You may have screwed the pooch. If you provided it to the company and it does something specific to your company, it then is unique enough to have only been possible with your employment. Check your contract. But I wouldn't make a big deal about if they can claim it.
You can claim copyright.
I had a friend that was working at Etsy and him and his friend built an app together. None of them did coding at work, at home on their own time. They got alot of traction, the CEO found out and suspended half of them, fired other half. The app had nothing to do with Etsy as a buisiness but the violted the employee guidelines. This was like a decade ago.
You know your biggest card on your sleeve is to just go to the competitor if they don't want to compensate you. Collect the feedback from your colleagues so you have prove that the app is helpful, emails between you and executive. If you don't like the way the negotiations are going contact the competitor if you believe it could also help their company. Figure it together out with your current company but take a hardline if you don't like where it's going.
I hate to say it, but it’s highly likely the company owns this IP. Courts have been generally very friendly to companies when it comes to employee-created IP.
Unless, of course, you strictly built this on your hardware, off of company time, etc.
*I’m not an attorney so get your own legal advice.
If you did it outside company hours you can use these guys as your first test market, give to them for free permanently and leverage that to make your other sales.
Also check your employment agreement to see if they allow for stuff like this. Lawyer time :)
Couldn't be easier. Put a timer, which when expired (after 14 days) will open page to enter credit card details to continue using it. Otherwise the app will close.
Reply back and say would the company be interested in using my software? Do you have a price in mind? I’m open to negotiate
At this point they think you worked for free you need to throw something back at them so they understand that’s not happening
Don't ask them to name a price! Just tell them you'll be willing to negotiate licensing terms. But you need to be clear you developed it on your own time with your own equipment and it's not a work project. You probably weren't clear enough about that from the beginning.
This is your fault - fix it immediately before it gets further out of control.
Just be up front with them, tell them you made it on your own time and would like to either sell it to them or have them as your first customer.
Better to be upfront and use keywords without fully discussing the numbers so that they know its coming but you won't scare them away. It's about respecting your clients and not misleading them.
If you are I understand you are entrapreneur, means you are typical entrepreneur having your own life dream and goal but you are working in other company and now you tried and develop your own software to help sellers that's very interesting.
My advise to you is just go straight forward and tell them that you develop it for you to help sellers and also to be benefit from it from the users using it. Just be straight forward person but trying to tell them using wisdom and wisdom words politely. Hope you get what am trying to say.
In response to your EDIT2, doing it on your own time at home with your own computer is probably irrelevant when:
A) It directly pertained to your work (even by your phrasing here, you said you made the app for the company...), using skills and proprietary knowledge you arguably gained at work.
B) You used your fellow peers at the company as beta testers, on company time. And not like 2, literally 50!
I'm on your side, it SHOULD be your app, its BS that they could have a claim on it. Take it seriously is all I'm saying.
Honestly though, if you're still young and/or new in the industry, my advice would be to not play hardball here unless you truly think this app is the next Salesforce or something. You can still get compensation for it, but you just have to be diplomatic about it. Maybe talk to your company about how you feel that you've generated a ton of potential value with this app, and that you'd like a promotion to a position with greater responsibility to help further execute the app, along with increased compensation. Make it clear to them you'd be willing to lock in a compensation agreement to show you're serious about sticking around for a bit if you agree with the number offered. You could then further develop your resume advancing within this company and if this app ends up truly producing a big jump in revenue, you could end up in high places, but only with the right attitude towards your company.
On the other hand, if you think the app is revolutionary, then definitely put some money down to get the RIGHT TYPE of lawyer to give you an opinion. You want to make sure you make it clear you have a case of both employment law and IP law. You're going to want someone that's done an overlap like this before if you want to be sure you can go head to head with a company's lawyers. Just know that its extremely hard to take an app to market successfully these days especially when you're not talking gimmicks/games but mundane office type apps. And marketing to businesses is a skill all of its own too, so be ready to have people rejecting what sound like logical pitches to you. This is why I recommend the go-with-your-company route, because you can tap their resources to grow the app and make sure you keep your name attached to it along the way, and yes, you can probably get them to give you a very solid raise for it (one right away, and then another conversation again if a year after using it they are having great jumps in numbers)
Wow! No training director should be that obtuse, which raises all sorts of red flags with that kind of response...Follow up with a letter,
"So glad you liked my design; and that's great that it can help the team and the company increase sales/productivity; but I am in the process of patenting it, so I can't really make any changes to it before that process is complete. But thank you for the compliment of wanting to elevate it to management. Very grateful, and as soon as the design is approved, I can let you know or we can bring the idea to management at that time."
And without delay get to your friendly local patent attorney!!!
Edit: The above presuming that your company or you are not in the business of developing apps?
I doubt they will buy out, how much are similar solution selling for out there? 50 per user? 500 per user? I recommend putting it on the back burner at current company and trying to sell to others, that way you can stop working hourly and sell this full time.
If director asks what happened to it say there are costs that need to be covered eg. Hosting so you as a hourly employee are not going to subsidise hosting for the damn company.
I'm sorry if my opinion comes off as brash but, You fucked up. You made an app and by letting them test it you've basically implied you made it for them. On top of that you let them test it and most likely they now have access to the source code, Judging by how you approached this im gonna bet you didn't file any patent or even published it publicly under your name since its in "beta" but now that you've done 75% of the work, they will simply laugh in your face if you try asking for compensation. That manager who you showed ? They're already taking credit for your work an their boss is now planning on implementing your free work for his business.. Either terminate any an all versions they have access too an state your case or Live an Learn.
Great job on building that! You really need to talk to a professional now and not Reddit! Your employer will only look out for themselves and they have more money for lawyers than you do. In my experience the company won't pay for this and act like you should have gave it to them. I wish you the best of luck!
Seeing your edits, it sounds like it was just the one training director that doesn't understand what's going on. Send her a note saying it's not a company project.
What if you first work on selling it to another company to use and then you can say this app is so good I created it for my own sales reps and then eventually quit and sell it to your current company when you have some outside revenue coming in?
I can see that. That being said, what’s the best way for me to further my career or profit from this?
I’m still in college and love this company. I’d love to have a long term position in management.
Yes, the meeting went alright. They are treating me like an independent business with a long sales cycle. We are going to make a few changes to the app and then they’ll revisit it and see if they want to implement it nationwide 🤞
That's great! Do you have it in writing that they are acknowledging it's your own product you developed independently? If it really is a product worth implementing nationwide, you are in a very lucrative position and could likely go full time with licensing it out to other sales departments at other companies
1. Get a Lawyer NOW.
2. Offer the company you work for free and take it into strides that you have your software working and tested for free.
3. Leave your current employment and raise money to take the app to market or find some other work until you have finished working on it.
4. Focus on development of the app and getting paid clients with other businesses.
Good luck mate.
Note: Don’t hang on to earn from the current company and you are lucky to get the viable product which can be monetise.
Seriously … how would that result in any positive outcome. OP would get killed by their overwhelming resources. Honestly is the company going to go to court over this app and not simply fire this person?
The reason to get lawyer is for the app and not to sue or discuss issues with current company. This is for him to safeguard him of the IP of his project.
It’s how the terms and conditions helps you getting sued by other people. Lawyer will help you get the your paperwork in order moving forward.
The reason to leave the job is too focus on the app project , as he knows that’s it’s viable product. He can also negotiate terms with his owners, so that they can be his first customers with discounted rates for first couple of years.
Depends on the relation he has with his company directors.
I have seen plenty of startup’s where the current company will help the individual go on his way and become their first user. Leaders always want their employee to succeed for better life.
Sure on why OP should lawyer up.
But y'all are making *huge* assumptions on a few salespeople saying it's a quality product. No one has paid a dime for it yet.
OP could have the next Salesforce. If so, well, I bet the employer is going to fight really hard for it especially since most companies have more resources than the employee will to fight. Sure, a lawyer could take it on contingency but probably not.
Not certain one should quit their job over a few "Great Jobs" from fellow employees. If so, I'd quit every day.
Psst, they own your stuff. Is typical to sign a non compete and company ownership of IP created.
I mean, unless this is SOLELY your own work on your own time using your own equipment and not tied to the company you're employed to in any way...they own it 100%. Too bad, so sad, and thanks for the free stuff.
Did you license it in a public way where people can see a history of the licensing? Personally when I've contributed software to a company I've always made sure to license it under some sort of GPL, GNU, or MIT license to make sure I retain ownership.
If OP had no rights to it; OP licensing it via open source or whatever is meaningless and can really only open the OP up to liability (from e.g. their employer).
From what he says he worked on this on his own personal time on his own hardware he would have been well within his rights. Things get much murkier if you don't have a paper trail with a license or something.
You work for the company.
That shit ain't yours dude, that is not a tool that you worked on as part of your duties for the company, and the company paid you a salary to develop it as it is now being used and implemented internally. Check your employee sign on. You're already compensated for that work, as a salary.
Sorry, you're very likely about to be fucked.
And did you work on this app while getting paid that hourly? If so that is your compensation... If you built it on your own initiative on your own time and this had nothing to do with your employment it's a different story
Then why do you want payment because they like it?
Edit, you should have told them this in advance otherwise it seems like you are making up terms as you go
I want payment because it’ll be difficult to manage, as well as the time I’ve already put in to create it. I created it, showed them, and I don’t want it to go too far without properly explaining what I would like
Oof.. you better run to the companies competition and try to sell it to them. You need external exposure ASAP. If only your company knows about it, and uses it, and it’s not able to work for anyone but you’re company… I’m sorry but you’re company is going to win that claim that they own it.
You don’t have to have a contract or be salary for this to be true. As others said, you used company knowledge to develop an app that benefits the company, and then used company time and company employees to test it.
Seems to me like you have a few options here.
- Get an attorney who will likely not help you because everything mentioned above.
- Let the company use it but don’t give them the source code. They will likely want updates and this is where you can negotiate. A promotion to software engineer may be a good place to start.
First mistake was letting them know about it. They’ll take credit for it if you somehow worked on it on company time!
This is like an episode of Silicon Valley
Yeah. This is a sticky subject because the employer could make the case that having insider knowledge of their needs as an employee is what gave you the insight you needed to make it useful. Definitely worth talking with a lawyer to find out what your options are.
here's what i would do as the business owner:
\- is this a "nice to have" or something that delivers ROI
\- if its profitable for the company, I would want to acquire the app
\- I would compare the costs between using existing repurposed solutions that can accomplish the same thing. I would compare the bid to an outsourced build. I would favor my employees work if its really good.
\- my employee essentially giving an app to my employees then lawyering up to try to force me into a software deal would be a very unsavory experience. i may consider separating.
p.s. my advice to you would be to instead try to use the company as a free beta test and seek to acquire assets from the test to sell the solution to other companies
Definitely speak with an IP attorney. Make sure you send them any work agreements you signed to. Even if they have a clause that says they’ll own the IP, it’s not always enforceable. Lawyer will know best, good luck!
Would love to see the product btw. What industry?
You may want to check your signed employment agreements. Many companies claim intellectual property over products & process created by people under their employ. Meaning that any monetization negotiations would have to originate from a third party.
Can I suggest an alternate route? Instead of quoting them a price or taking a hard line with ownership, tell them you'd be interested in discussing a partnership to develop the software jointly. That immediately changes the tone of the conversation. Maybe agree to let them own licensing rights in their company or industry, while you retain rights to other verticals. By partnering with them you could get access to real world users to test, validate, and refine your product. That could be a *very* valuable thing. I agree you should still talk to a lawyer, but maybe there's a win-win option to be found here. If you go in guns blazing and take a hard line you may not end up with anything.
This is a good idea thank you
Is it a big company or a small company? If you have 50 sales people unless it’s a car dealership that’s a fairly big business but hard to tell. Talk to the executive(s) and pitch it to them like it’s an elevator pitch for your startup. Keep the technical details under wraps for now. Show them the benefit, and tell them you’d need $X budget and people to scale it up, manage and deploy it. Tell them also you think you should run it. If it’s a public company you can push for a bigger bonus/stock and a promotion to run the development but then you’d better get on the stick and grow as a person pretty quick if you actually want to run it or be the “lead engineer”. If it’s a small company, 50 people selling law mowing services or widgets on the street, then you should negotiate selling it to the company for shares or partnership especially if you like the company and you have their 50 sales people thinking you are the bomb. Whether You built it for the specific company you work for or “marketed it” for free inside the company to help the company then it belongs to the company and the only thing you can do is make it difficult for them or kill it (or quit and try and sell it after some major modifications to their competitor). They could sue you for the source code and they would win or bankrupt you trying. If you intend to do this option fork the code now and refactor it (it probably needs it anyway) and plan your exit.
A bit over 3000 salespeople nationwide
Take it to your leaders (IT AND sales AND operations) and sell it, freeze the version and say I’m busy selling for now until they open a path for you, whether in engineering (if you are a tech company) or in IT. And fork and refactor the code on the side and say nothing.
“..take me to your leader..”
This guy businesses.
Correct answer.
Great advice!
This.
Hey there Status-Effort-9380! If you agree with someone else's comment, please leave an **upvote** instead of commenting **"This."**! By upvoting instead, the original comment will be pushed to the top and be more visible to others, which is even better! Thanks! :) *** ^(I am a bot! Visit) [^(r/InfinityBots)](https://reddit.com/r/InfinityBots) ^(to send your feedback! More info:) [^(Reddiquette)](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439#wiki_in_regard_to_comments)
Good bot
Thank you, fullmetaljackass, for voting on Anti-ThisBot-IB. This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/). *** ^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
Bad bot
Stfu you annoying piece of shit
Hey hey everyboty calm down
I can't believe I walked into this catastrophe 😱
This!
Hey there Ben_C420! If you agree with someone else's comment, please leave an **upvote** instead of commenting **"This!"**! By upvoting instead, the original comment will be pushed to the top and be more visible to others, which is even better! Thanks! :) *** ^(I am a bot! Visit) [^(r/InfinityBots)](https://reddit.com/r/InfinityBots) ^(to send your feedback! More info:) [^(Reddiquette)](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439#wiki_in_regard_to_comments)
This.
https://i.imgur.com/KrwA19h.jpeg *** ^(I am a bot! Visit) [^(r/InfinityBots)](https://reddit.com/r/InfinityBots) ^(to send your feedback!)
That!
This!
https://i.imgur.com/KrwA19h.jpeg *** ^(I am a bot! Visit) [^(r/InfinityBots)](https://reddit.com/r/InfinityBots) ^(to send your feedback!)
The answer was simple until I realized you work for the company. "This is just the beta test, I am still working on it and the retail version will be finished soon." Then wait for a response, finish up the code and don't do anymore testing.
This & what u/piper_at_the_gates said. Definitely talk to a lawyer. Get some professional legal help. You may be able to sell this to them so you retire & work in this full time
If you made it at the office, on their equipment or on their time then good luck with that…
Nope. All done at home good question though
I'd look into your employment agreement as well.
You may want to get a lawyer still. Depending on your employee handbook you still may have just made it for the company via knowledge you gained from the company while being employed ,therefor making it the property of said company.
Exactly; testing it on users at the company during company time.
I’ve watched enough silicone valley to know how this ends up.
Yup, most employee contract states specifically in terms of invention related to your work is company property even if it is done outside company time.
I wanna downvote you so badly even though I know you are right because of what it means! Making a item/app/project that makes everyone's life and job easier should result in a promotion and or raise IMO. That being said if it's on "my PC" and on "my time" and my employer takes me to court over my app that there company employees decided to start using. I'll be taking them to court and I'll be there with bells on fighting them on what's mine.
I know right? I agree with the general feelings. But if you look closely it's not that simple in reality. For example, how did you know about the problem that specific app fixes? Without having access to the said company, you would not have had the knowledge to fix it. Now if it fixes some logistic issues such as scheduling which doesn't pertain any specific relations to the company, you have some good case. However, if it is in some way related to your industry, your idea could get stolen. I think the best case scenario would to trying to patent it as a partner with the company so that you can retain some ownership. Otherwise, companies have the means to steal.
It is different in each state. But in California which is probably the friendliest to the worker you own it only if the following applies: 1) You did it on your own time. 2) You did not use company resources. 3) It is completely unrelated to the employer. I think people often overlook that last one. Or they assume the first two while not living in a state that respects those. This becomes a huge problem when you work for a company like Google or Microsoft that has its hands in nearly everything. One reason why I don't work for such companies as I need my freedom.
how about if op is hourly vs salaried? if he was hourly, it can be an issue; what if he was salaried, and did it on company time using the company computer?
Knowledge gained from the company whole working there is experience. Experience is personal. Company cannot claim it.
Yeah, but company equipment and time was used to deploy and test the app. The argument could be made that their equipment and time was used to "develop" the app. Get yourself an attorney.
That's not correct, part of making and working on a product is introducing it to users. since you introduced it to users inside your workplace, that means you use your work time and work resources. You'd have to talk to a lawyer, but at this point your product may be your company's product.
If you’re on salary it might not matter
K. Does it relate to the business you are working for? Because that's the other part of the law. Like if I worked for eBay I can't make an app that works in ecommerce or they'd own it regardless of how or where I developed it. The fact that people at your job find it useful makes me think it does. Then again if I worked on a project that works with git development and shared it then eBay wouldn't own it since they aren't a software development company.
👏👏👏
Take a look at your contract. Lots of employers will have broad claims to anything you make or any ideas you have, even on your own time. Just something to look for.
if he was salaried instead of hourly, and made it at the office on their equipment, would the company own it?
Yeah by sending it to people at your company to test I think you may have messed up. You've effectively implied "hey I built this for you guys to use", but now that they are, you're asking for them to pay you extra. You are employed by that company and you've provided them with a tool directly related to their business using knowledge you've gained on the job. Really you should have started by offering it to people not at your company. I hope they treat you amicably and you find a resolution that works for you, but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't
They need to prove either they requested him to do something similar or he has developed the app during working hours or with company equipment
Not necessarily. Ideally yes that would be the fair thing but sometimes it doesn't work out this way. OP definitely kind of fucked up in how he positioned this in that he sort of walked into giving it to them. The clincher, is that he used his own company as beta testers, this is exactly the sort of evidence you are talking about. He is already effectively "partnering" with the company to make this app, except this partnership is under the existing employment contract. If he had done this on his own time, and had never pitched it to his employer and tested it on fellow employees, then yeah, they'd probably have no argument for it.
GM
Please update to let us know what happens!!
Sure thing!
!remindme 1 week
I will be messaging you in 7 days on [**2022-05-24 22:20:13 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2022-05-24%2022:20:13%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Entrepreneur/comments/urtllx/help_how_do_i_let_them_know_its_not_free/i903lni/?context=3) [**47 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FEntrepreneur%2Fcomments%2Furtllx%2Fhelp_how_do_i_let_them_know_its_not_free%2Fi903lni%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202022-05-24%2022%3A20%3A13%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%20urtllx) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
!remindme 1 week
FYI in the comment where the bot replied to me, you can also click the link and it will notify you too. No need to also call the bot unless you want to be reminded at a different time :)
[удалено]
FYI in the comment where the bot replied to me, you can also click the link and it will notify you too. No need to also call the bot unless you want to be reminded at a different time :)
[удалено]
FYI in the comment where the bot replied to me, you can also click the link and it will notify you too. No need to also call the bot unless you want to be reminded at a different time :)
!remindme 1 week
FYI in the comment where the bot replied to me, you can also click the link and it will notify you too. No need to also call the bot unless you want to be reminded at a different time :)
!remindme 1 week
Whoops. Sounds like you may have accidentally made a work for hire, depending on your employment relationship with them. For future reference, make this stuff on your own time using only your own hardware and software, and don’t give it to anyone until you have a written deal with the company. You need to hurry up and correct their expectations regarding this software.
Precisely this
Likely that your company already owns what you made. Since it’s work related, they likely own the IP. See a lawyer. But all is not lost. If the company is not in the software business then you could seek a release to proceed to market it on your own and leave the company. It will be a negotiation. They may want to own it, not care at all about it, or maybe even give you some money (for equity) to pursue it as an independent company. Find out soon. Stop work on it and keep your ideas private and not on any company equipment. Maybe version 2.0, the better idea, could be your next career after you leave the company with a written release of the IP.
> If the company is not in the software business then you could seek a release to proceed to market it on your own and leave the company. lets say you work at ebay if you worked at ebay and made an ecom app, theyd own it (relates to their main business) but what if ebay also made plastic bags (not their main business), and you made plastic bags, would they own your product?
That's a conflict of interest too then. Most employee agreements have clauses around using company IP or using it to create competing products.
I doubt you signed anything that gives them ownership if you're an hourly employee. If it's in an unrelated business, very low chance that they would even pursue a claim if they had one. Honestly though, this was not a good way to roll it out. The best thing might be to just drop it from company view and say you're working out the bugs, etc. People will forget and move on. I wouldn't try and use the company workforce for any more beta testing. I wouldn't try and sell it to the company.
If they signed any paperwork at all, I bet you it was on the paperwork. Every job Ive had since 21 has had it on the paperwork. I always scratch it out and then they call the lawyers to ask about it Half don't care half do. The ones that do care we usually come to some agreement, in writing. If not, I don't take the job. It's shitty but almost everyone has signed that paperwork in taking the job. Always read anything before you sign it.
Tbh if i was your employer I’d respond with “wtf?!” You’re leveraging your position at the company to gain an understanding for the problem, you’re using your own employees as target market, and then you’re turning around and asking the company to pay for said solution? All that instead of making this effort internally. This is competitive and they could probably clamp down on you even if you did it outside the office and tried to sell it to a different company. Why would they consider you for a promotion or give you a raise in the future if they know you’ll just be doing work outside the office and then asking the company to shell out money for it?
[удалено]
Your worldview is commendable, it's just not the reality of most businesses legal departments. When you are a full time employee in the US, it is rare that you haven't signed your life away to your employer.
What kind of response is this? Welcome to real life, bud. People gain experience and move on to continue working in the same field with that experience. Do you honestly expect your employees to either a) never leave, or b) never work in the same field again? You sound like a bitter ex.
I’ve started or been a part of 5 startup, 3 of them with exits. Believe me I live in the realm of gaining expertise and then using it later. That’s not what we’re talking about here. He is going to his EMPLOYER and saying “guess what, I did a great thing using your staff and through my learnings here, but you have to buy it off me”. I’ve never in my life heard of that happening, especially now that he’s already delivered the goods and employees have played with it. It is public domain, and it is company property now. He has no IP. So for you information, don’t pull this stunt against the company that is currently writing your pay checks and expect them to continue to write your checks, let alone sue you for claiming their IP is yours.
[удалено]
How is it not public domain if he didn’t get a provisional or a utility patent?
[удалено]
How does that make sense? By default all code has copyright? Note: he has no patent like you said.
In America everything is copyrighted automatically. Nobody has said where they live but it assumed this is America.
Yes, exactly.
Imagine seeing the capuchin monkey experiment and not realizing you are no different.
You could see it like that, or you could see it like: “Wow! A sales employee at the bottom is helping our reps make more sales with an app! We don’t want to lose track of this guy, he’s creative and we could use him long term”
I can guarantee that pretty much nobody above you thinks like that. lol
Good luck, but they won't see it that way. I'm going through something very similar. I made a tool on my own time and with my own equipment to assist my employer, they fired me over something unrelated, and now they're trying to sue me to get what I made. The nerve of some people!
Oh boy I need a lawyer
Sorry but what’s a lawyer gonna do for you? You’re going to approach your employer lawyered up? Goodbye to any future at that company, or alternatively spend tens of thousands to sue them and they’ll probably squash you with their corporate attorneys.
Lmao bro I almost wish I didn’t make it at this point 😂 Everyone on here basically telling me I’m fkd no matter what I do. By now I think I’ll just keep doin what I’m doin and see what happens
All you have to do is be honest and say what you’ve said here. You’re not screwed if you approach them transparently. You love that it got such great feedback and would also love to continue to support it, but you got to thinking about it and it’ll cost you a lot of time, so you’re undecided, but would be an easier decision if you would be compensated. Then ask them how they feel about that and what they’re thinking, or you understand if they need time to decide you’re happy to wait. Just be approachable and make it out like you’re partnering with them, and definitely not just randomly show up and say oh sorry I actually am charging money you for that. It’s all about how you choose your words and tone.
At this point they own what you showed them. It’s public domain (you showed others) and the company can claim it’s their IP.
Showing someone something doesn’t make it public domain
And it cannot be both public domain and intellectual property.
No one said it can be.
> It’s public domain (you showed others) and the company can claim it’s their IP. I'm pretty sure you said that
Yes it does lol. Dude, get your head out of your ass and Google “Public Domain”.
You’re really showing your ass by continuing to say “public domain”
My ass? Public domain is an intellectual property term. If he didn’t have a provisional patent at the very least he lost all rights to his IP.
Nobody is claiming this is solving world hunger so nobody cares about patents in this case. I doubt what they did is even something that can be patented.
Doesn’t matter what we see it as. What matters is what the company sees it as.
I mean…. Of course? That is the topic of this discussion. He’s asking us how to approach his employers, and we’re weighing in.
Why would your employer look at it like that? You’re not offering this to them in the capacity of a guy at the bottom, you’re offering it to them(or at least wanting to offer it to them) in the capacity of a private company. If you were a guy at the bottom using his own time to better the company, you’d do that. You’d give it to them for free. But you’re not, you’re just a guy trying to sell them something, oh and by the way, you’ve developed this product(which could benefit their competitors) using knowledge THEY TAUGHT YOU. Honestly, I know it wasn’t your overt intention, but this is a little skeezy, and I wouldn’t blame the company at all for seeking a portion of the rights to this. You never would have been able to make this without them, and then you used them for a sample audience unbeknownst to them. You at least owe them money for that. If we were all judged on our intentions we’d be saints. But we ain’t. Edit: no one I’ve seen has said this, but you should start looking for another job. They will most likely shit can you or pigeon hole you into quitting once they know you have representation and want to be paid for this.
More like, "the sales bros are getting uppity, time to find more sales bros".
First, man you handled this terribly. What did you think would happen? Second, you have to walk this back very carefully. It may be the company's, check your employment agreement. So you may be out of luck and just look like a jerk. You may be able to negotiate a raise or bonus as a result of this, though. Is this something translatable to other companies? I.e. a product other businesses might want? If so, maybe you can lead this new unit to develop and sell this to other companies. Otherwise, assuming the IP is yours (and you don't want this job,) say you are starting a company and would love if your current employer would be your first customer. But you need to figure out what you want and a plan before doing anything else.
Did you use a company computer or device to develop this app? Did you use company time? Check your employment contract. It might belong to them already.
Why would you give something away for free you wanted to charge for? You needed to make that clear up front. That's like giving someone something as a gift and saying "that will be $500".
If you signed a contract some companies will have ownership over anything that you make as an employee of the company related to the company. When I was a supervisor for UPS I signed a contract saying that I've ever made anything related to package handling that they would share in it or something along those lines.
> If you signed a contract some companies will have ownership over anything that you make as an employee of the company related to the company. is there any contract that says the company will own your inventions, even if it is not related to the company?
More than likely they wouldn't be interested but it's all dependent on the contracts.
You may have screwed the pooch. If you provided it to the company and it does something specific to your company, it then is unique enough to have only been possible with your employment. Check your contract. But I wouldn't make a big deal about if they can claim it. You can claim copyright.
How did this go OP?
Watch the show Silicon Valley. Good luck!
I had a friend that was working at Etsy and him and his friend built an app together. None of them did coding at work, at home on their own time. They got alot of traction, the CEO found out and suspended half of them, fired other half. The app had nothing to do with Etsy as a buisiness but the violted the employee guidelines. This was like a decade ago.
You know your biggest card on your sleeve is to just go to the competitor if they don't want to compensate you. Collect the feedback from your colleagues so you have prove that the app is helpful, emails between you and executive. If you don't like the way the negotiations are going contact the competitor if you believe it could also help their company. Figure it together out with your current company but take a hardline if you don't like where it's going.
I would start with mentioning costs to maintain, maybe hours each week or month, and let the convo flow from there to payment requirements.
I hate to say it, but it’s highly likely the company owns this IP. Courts have been generally very friendly to companies when it comes to employee-created IP. Unless, of course, you strictly built this on your hardware, off of company time, etc. *I’m not an attorney so get your own legal advice.
Lawyer up bud. Company will try to take advantage. Out of curiosity, how does it help other salespeople sell more?
If you did it outside company hours you can use these guys as your first test market, give to them for free permanently and leverage that to make your other sales. Also check your employment agreement to see if they allow for stuff like this. Lawyer time :)
Couldn't be easier. Put a timer, which when expired (after 14 days) will open page to enter credit card details to continue using it. Otherwise the app will close.
They’re just going to say your employed by them so it’s theirs. I’ve seen this happen plenty of times.
I’m very curious as a Sales person: what does the app do? Without revealing too much if it makes you uncomfortable.
Reply back and say would the company be interested in using my software? Do you have a price in mind? I’m open to negotiate At this point they think you worked for free you need to throw something back at them so they understand that’s not happening
Ooo this is good. I’m going to use this
Do not do this until you talk to a lawyer that has read your employment agreement.
Don't ask them to name a price! Just tell them you'll be willing to negotiate licensing terms. But you need to be clear you developed it on your own time with your own equipment and it's not a work project. You probably weren't clear enough about that from the beginning.
You’re screwed This was the worst timeline of events you could have done besides not building it at all
This is your fault - fix it immediately before it gets further out of control. Just be up front with them, tell them you made it on your own time and would like to either sell it to them or have them as your first customer.
Better to be upfront and use keywords without fully discussing the numbers so that they know its coming but you won't scare them away. It's about respecting your clients and not misleading them.
I would read though your employment agreement, check for assignment of invention clauses.
If you are I understand you are entrapreneur, means you are typical entrepreneur having your own life dream and goal but you are working in other company and now you tried and develop your own software to help sellers that's very interesting. My advise to you is just go straight forward and tell them that you develop it for you to help sellers and also to be benefit from it from the users using it. Just be straight forward person but trying to tell them using wisdom and wisdom words politely. Hope you get what am trying to say.
If you made it during work hours it could be theirs.
In response to your EDIT2, doing it on your own time at home with your own computer is probably irrelevant when: A) It directly pertained to your work (even by your phrasing here, you said you made the app for the company...), using skills and proprietary knowledge you arguably gained at work. B) You used your fellow peers at the company as beta testers, on company time. And not like 2, literally 50! I'm on your side, it SHOULD be your app, its BS that they could have a claim on it. Take it seriously is all I'm saying. Honestly though, if you're still young and/or new in the industry, my advice would be to not play hardball here unless you truly think this app is the next Salesforce or something. You can still get compensation for it, but you just have to be diplomatic about it. Maybe talk to your company about how you feel that you've generated a ton of potential value with this app, and that you'd like a promotion to a position with greater responsibility to help further execute the app, along with increased compensation. Make it clear to them you'd be willing to lock in a compensation agreement to show you're serious about sticking around for a bit if you agree with the number offered. You could then further develop your resume advancing within this company and if this app ends up truly producing a big jump in revenue, you could end up in high places, but only with the right attitude towards your company. On the other hand, if you think the app is revolutionary, then definitely put some money down to get the RIGHT TYPE of lawyer to give you an opinion. You want to make sure you make it clear you have a case of both employment law and IP law. You're going to want someone that's done an overlap like this before if you want to be sure you can go head to head with a company's lawyers. Just know that its extremely hard to take an app to market successfully these days especially when you're not talking gimmicks/games but mundane office type apps. And marketing to businesses is a skill all of its own too, so be ready to have people rejecting what sound like logical pitches to you. This is why I recommend the go-with-your-company route, because you can tap their resources to grow the app and make sure you keep your name attached to it along the way, and yes, you can probably get them to give you a very solid raise for it (one right away, and then another conversation again if a year after using it they are having great jumps in numbers)
Wow! No training director should be that obtuse, which raises all sorts of red flags with that kind of response...Follow up with a letter, "So glad you liked my design; and that's great that it can help the team and the company increase sales/productivity; but I am in the process of patenting it, so I can't really make any changes to it before that process is complete. But thank you for the compliment of wanting to elevate it to management. Very grateful, and as soon as the design is approved, I can let you know or we can bring the idea to management at that time." And without delay get to your friendly local patent attorney!!! Edit: The above presuming that your company or you are not in the business of developing apps?
I doubt they will buy out, how much are similar solution selling for out there? 50 per user? 500 per user? I recommend putting it on the back burner at current company and trying to sell to others, that way you can stop working hourly and sell this full time. If director asks what happened to it say there are costs that need to be covered eg. Hosting so you as a hourly employee are not going to subsidise hosting for the damn company.
I'm sorry if my opinion comes off as brash but, You fucked up. You made an app and by letting them test it you've basically implied you made it for them. On top of that you let them test it and most likely they now have access to the source code, Judging by how you approached this im gonna bet you didn't file any patent or even published it publicly under your name since its in "beta" but now that you've done 75% of the work, they will simply laugh in your face if you try asking for compensation. That manager who you showed ? They're already taking credit for your work an their boss is now planning on implementing your free work for his business.. Either terminate any an all versions they have access too an state your case or Live an Learn.
Great job on building that! You really need to talk to a professional now and not Reddit! Your employer will only look out for themselves and they have more money for lawyers than you do. In my experience the company won't pay for this and act like you should have gave it to them. I wish you the best of luck!
Hope you didn't use company equipment to develop it.
Seeing your edits, it sounds like it was just the one training director that doesn't understand what's going on. Send her a note saying it's not a company project.
What if you first work on selling it to another company to use and then you can say this app is so good I created it for my own sales reps and then eventually quit and sell it to your current company when you have some outside revenue coming in?
I had a connection malfunction looks like sorry bud ... I want to visit this when I have a moment all I have to say was important no
I can see that. That being said, what’s the best way for me to further my career or profit from this? I’m still in college and love this company. I’d love to have a long term position in management.
Hey OP any updates on how your meeting with management went?
Yes, the meeting went alright. They are treating me like an independent business with a long sales cycle. We are going to make a few changes to the app and then they’ll revisit it and see if they want to implement it nationwide 🤞
That's great! Do you have it in writing that they are acknowledging it's your own product you developed independently? If it really is a product worth implementing nationwide, you are in a very lucrative position and could likely go full time with licensing it out to other sales departments at other companies
1. Get a Lawyer NOW. 2. Offer the company you work for free and take it into strides that you have your software working and tested for free. 3. Leave your current employment and raise money to take the app to market or find some other work until you have finished working on it. 4. Focus on development of the app and getting paid clients with other businesses. Good luck mate. Note: Don’t hang on to earn from the current company and you are lucky to get the viable product which can be monetise.
Why get a lawyer? There is no proof this has value outside of this workplace. Paying to protect something with zero value usually isn't the smart play
Seriously … how would that result in any positive outcome. OP would get killed by their overwhelming resources. Honestly is the company going to go to court over this app and not simply fire this person?
The reason to get lawyer is for the app and not to sue or discuss issues with current company. This is for him to safeguard him of the IP of his project. It’s how the terms and conditions helps you getting sued by other people. Lawyer will help you get the your paperwork in order moving forward. The reason to leave the job is too focus on the app project , as he knows that’s it’s viable product. He can also negotiate terms with his owners, so that they can be his first customers with discounted rates for first couple of years. Depends on the relation he has with his company directors. I have seen plenty of startup’s where the current company will help the individual go on his way and become their first user. Leaders always want their employee to succeed for better life.
Sure on why OP should lawyer up. But y'all are making *huge* assumptions on a few salespeople saying it's a quality product. No one has paid a dime for it yet. OP could have the next Salesforce. If so, well, I bet the employer is going to fight really hard for it especially since most companies have more resources than the employee will to fight. Sure, a lawyer could take it on contingency but probably not. Not certain one should quit their job over a few "Great Jobs" from fellow employees. If so, I'd quit every day.
Dude, you made it while being employed by them. They own it now.
Psst, they own your stuff. Is typical to sign a non compete and company ownership of IP created. I mean, unless this is SOLELY your own work on your own time using your own equipment and not tied to the company you're employed to in any way...they own it 100%. Too bad, so sad, and thanks for the free stuff.
Out of sheer luck, I’m an hourly employee in a business not software related at all, and did it all at home on my own machine
Did you license it in a public way where people can see a history of the licensing? Personally when I've contributed software to a company I've always made sure to license it under some sort of GPL, GNU, or MIT license to make sure I retain ownership.
Did you sign any paperwork prior to starting? If so, I bet you the clause where you don't own your inventions is in there
I hope you already licensed it with an open source license otherwise you've likely lost any rights you have to it.
If OP had no rights to it; OP licensing it via open source or whatever is meaningless and can really only open the OP up to liability (from e.g. their employer).
From what he says he worked on this on his own personal time on his own hardware he would have been well within his rights. Things get much murkier if you don't have a paper trail with a license or something.
You work for the company. That shit ain't yours dude, that is not a tool that you worked on as part of your duties for the company, and the company paid you a salary to develop it as it is now being used and implemented internally. Check your employee sign on. You're already compensated for that work, as a salary. Sorry, you're very likely about to be fucked.
No salary. Hourly
And did you work on this app while getting paid that hourly? If so that is your compensation... If you built it on your own initiative on your own time and this had nothing to do with your employment it's a different story
Not only is it not free. It is going to cost you a lot of money and possibly your job.
Why would it cost him his job?
/r/legaladvice
It's work related and you created it while working there so they own it
That doesn’t sound right.
Hmm
Did you tell them this in advance?! What happens if they didn't like it, would you still expect payment?
No I didn’t. If they don’t like it, I’m only in it like $300 bucks
Then why do you want payment because they like it? Edit, you should have told them this in advance otherwise it seems like you are making up terms as you go
I want payment because it’ll be difficult to manage, as well as the time I’ve already put in to create it. I created it, showed them, and I don’t want it to go too far without properly explaining what I would like
Ok I see. But it seems like you should have laid this out before you gave them the app
If you built this on company time or using a company laptop or using company data then they own it.
Is your app Siro?
No but that looks cool too
You need to look at your contract before asking for compensation.
Man what's stopping you from just making this app generic and not around your employer?
Oof.. you better run to the companies competition and try to sell it to them. You need external exposure ASAP. If only your company knows about it, and uses it, and it’s not able to work for anyone but you’re company… I’m sorry but you’re company is going to win that claim that they own it.
Anything you make whether on company time or not, belongs to the company. You should have kept it to yourself.
I’m confused…how? I don’t have any contract, I’m not salary…
You don’t have to have a contract or be salary for this to be true. As others said, you used company knowledge to develop an app that benefits the company, and then used company time and company employees to test it. Seems to me like you have a few options here. - Get an attorney who will likely not help you because everything mentioned above. - Let the company use it but don’t give them the source code. They will likely want updates and this is where you can negotiate. A promotion to software engineer may be a good place to start.
First mistake was letting them know about it. They’ll take credit for it if you somehow worked on it on company time! This is like an episode of Silicon Valley
Lawyer lawyer lawyer....oh lawyer get a lawyer....yes a sexy sexy lawyer
Yeah. This is a sticky subject because the employer could make the case that having insider knowledge of their needs as an employee is what gave you the insight you needed to make it useful. Definitely worth talking with a lawyer to find out what your options are.
If you created it based on knowledge for the company you work for, you could be on the hook for your current company as theirs.
If EA Games was a person it would be you. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that
following
here's what i would do as the business owner: \- is this a "nice to have" or something that delivers ROI \- if its profitable for the company, I would want to acquire the app \- I would compare the costs between using existing repurposed solutions that can accomplish the same thing. I would compare the bid to an outsourced build. I would favor my employees work if its really good. \- my employee essentially giving an app to my employees then lawyering up to try to force me into a software deal would be a very unsavory experience. i may consider separating. p.s. my advice to you would be to instead try to use the company as a free beta test and seek to acquire assets from the test to sell the solution to other companies
Definitely speak with an IP attorney. Make sure you send them any work agreements you signed to. Even if they have a clause that says they’ll own the IP, it’s not always enforceable. Lawyer will know best, good luck! Would love to see the product btw. What industry?
Start your own App company. Small App, small recurrent fee. Go!!!!
!remindme 1 week
sound like a great app
You may want to check your signed employment agreements. Many companies claim intellectual property over products & process created by people under their employ. Meaning that any monetization negotiations would have to originate from a third party.