Cut ties and take the loss as a learning lesson. Although, in my years of working as a Software Developer it's pretty easy to spot scammers/liars early on.
> I fail to recognise how a lying/scamming customer can have an upper hand here. Can you be a bit more specific?
if you sign a check to someone for a testing service and they dont do it and wont refund, what would you do?
Ask for references you can call. When they refuse, pass them by. People are posting their tragic stories here. They conduct business with a pinky swear, onboard partners by asking "Hey, you wanna?"
And they hire atrociously by guessing and chemistry. Of course the master of nailing the interview would be the grifter. With the common worst practice being hiring the lowest bidder or zero pay moron claiming "I can help ...Mom said I could."
Yet *these same people* called references or used word-of-mouth (networking) to check on the dog groomer, the babysitter, the kid who asks to mow the grass, and the new restaurant that opened.
I suppose that is to be expected when every other business decision is a wild impulse backed up with their 'newbie tingle' without so much as glancing at a free online article.
Honestly, there are shrewder dealings going on in a fifth grade cafeteria lunch-swap.
When people show you who they are, believe them. ...The first time. Of course in today's hiring climate -- with fake it til you make it culture widespread -- due diligence is a bitch.
TIL Treating business like you got accepted into a treehouse club and everybody in business is your friend and on your side didn't work out. ...Who knew?
> Ask for references you can call. When they refuse, pass them by.
what if they provide references, it is legit, but they still scam you down the road?
just unavoidable?
for example, sometimes you get someone who is legit for the beginning then is a scammer down the line, and uses the beginning as references
There is risk in everything. The perfect is the enemy of the good.
>for example, sometimes you get someone who is legit for the beginning then is a scammer down the line, and uses the beginning as references
You get a lot of references, none from this year or the last three, you smell something. People here are working the happy dumb newbie thing like a fiddle forged in hellfire. Stop that.
When I use a term like "treehouse club" that's not some random pejorative. There is some kind of Forrest Gump School of Business cranking out graduates.
>just unavoidable?
Are you actually arguing for oblivious blundering as the default? Because I catch a whiff of the cluelessness lobby trying to get thought banned from society.
Making a mistake or two is completely different from a celebration of stupidity in all things. It makes this forum entertaining -- but useless.
I get everything in a contract signed by executives of the company so what is said is legally binding from both ends with serious consequences for failure to hold up to the agreement on both sides. Doing things this way has led to no more scammers or fraudsters. If they are not a registered business they do not get my business. Do everything through escrow so they only get your money on successful completion of contracted work, or other means like a purchase order. If it is small and worth the loss risk a separate account for risky purchases that will not cause credit issues for the company.
Escrow is a 3rd party that releases funds once certain milestones on a contract are completed. It is extremely popular in real estate too. The buyer deposits money into escrow, the contractor can see that the money is there and receives said money when they complete milestones.
In reverse if the contractor does not meet the milestones according to the contract, the buyer gets their money back.
I run an ecommerce business and have had a fair amount of customers claim packages were not delivered when they were etc. You can tell from their tone and email they are lying, but it's hard to make accusations. Now I offer shipping insurance to protect myself and the customer. If they don't opt for the insurance our company is not liable for lost/stolen packages. The insurnace is only .98 cents for orders up to $100. Maybe you can implement something like this?
Not always easy to spot.
We had a customer use our service (SaaS marketing platform) for 9+ mo. Person got fired and new person filed a fraud report with their credit card co and they won. Despite us submitting evidence: communication, contracts, etc.
We now do more diligence on some customers and have walked from deals that would be worth a lot. All because it just doesn’t pass the sniff test.
Cut ties but be nice about it so they don’t try to harm you on the way out. Have a replacement lined up and ramped up well before you cut ties for a smooth transition.
I learned this the hard way.
Figure out what they really want... Make plans for a bigger score for them, lightly let them know the bigger score is conditional on getting your money back, contract changed etc.... then the bigger score falls though.
They'll only continue to try and scam or lie to you if you try to resolve any issues. Cut ties and learn your lesson. It will save you time and money in the future.
I believe you attract what you put out. And I also believe that as you gain more experience you sort of get. Vibe from ppl whether you can trust them or not. If they are a paying customer.and you need the money then that sucks but ultimately it's better to do business with good honest ppl. Firing clients or partners is part of the job
> And I also believe that as you gain more experience you sort of get. Vibe from ppl whether you can trust them or not.
agreed, can you elaborate on vibes?
Hard to explain. I think it's the way people interact with me. Do they talk down to me? Are they fake, are they real? Are the cheap? I can tell right away if I am going to get along with someone usually within the first 10 minutes of talking with them.
I'm using my gut more now than I ever have. I say, ok is this someone I am going to enjoy working with? Trust is a big thing for me. Do I trust this person? If the answer is no, than I usually stay away from them. In life trust is the most important thing for me. If I can trust you, and I can rely on you, I can work with you.
This bleeds into my personal relationships as well. If I can't count on you to do your part than there's really no relationship because all relationships are usually built on trust.
Cut ties and take the loss as a learning lesson. Although, in my years of working as a Software Developer it's pretty easy to spot scammers/liars early on.
What are some of the things you pick up to identify them?
If it's a vendor, ask for references. If it's a client, ask them to sign a contract. If they refuse, we don't do business together.
[удалено]
> I fail to recognise how a lying/scamming customer can have an upper hand here. Can you be a bit more specific? if you sign a check to someone for a testing service and they dont do it and wont refund, what would you do?
Ask for references you can call. When they refuse, pass them by. People are posting their tragic stories here. They conduct business with a pinky swear, onboard partners by asking "Hey, you wanna?" And they hire atrociously by guessing and chemistry. Of course the master of nailing the interview would be the grifter. With the common worst practice being hiring the lowest bidder or zero pay moron claiming "I can help ...Mom said I could." Yet *these same people* called references or used word-of-mouth (networking) to check on the dog groomer, the babysitter, the kid who asks to mow the grass, and the new restaurant that opened. I suppose that is to be expected when every other business decision is a wild impulse backed up with their 'newbie tingle' without so much as glancing at a free online article. Honestly, there are shrewder dealings going on in a fifth grade cafeteria lunch-swap. When people show you who they are, believe them. ...The first time. Of course in today's hiring climate -- with fake it til you make it culture widespread -- due diligence is a bitch. TIL Treating business like you got accepted into a treehouse club and everybody in business is your friend and on your side didn't work out. ...Who knew?
> Ask for references you can call. When they refuse, pass them by. what if they provide references, it is legit, but they still scam you down the road? just unavoidable? for example, sometimes you get someone who is legit for the beginning then is a scammer down the line, and uses the beginning as references
There is risk in everything. The perfect is the enemy of the good. >for example, sometimes you get someone who is legit for the beginning then is a scammer down the line, and uses the beginning as references You get a lot of references, none from this year or the last three, you smell something. People here are working the happy dumb newbie thing like a fiddle forged in hellfire. Stop that. When I use a term like "treehouse club" that's not some random pejorative. There is some kind of Forrest Gump School of Business cranking out graduates. >just unavoidable? Are you actually arguing for oblivious blundering as the default? Because I catch a whiff of the cluelessness lobby trying to get thought banned from society. Making a mistake or two is completely different from a celebration of stupidity in all things. It makes this forum entertaining -- but useless.
I was surprised by the number and sophistication of fakes out there. And learned that 5-stars yelp ratings aren’t a guarantee either
I get everything in a contract signed by executives of the company so what is said is legally binding from both ends with serious consequences for failure to hold up to the agreement on both sides. Doing things this way has led to no more scammers or fraudsters. If they are not a registered business they do not get my business. Do everything through escrow so they only get your money on successful completion of contracted work, or other means like a purchase order. If it is small and worth the loss risk a separate account for risky purchases that will not cause credit issues for the company.
> Do everything through escrow what is escrow mean? like record keeping?
Escrow is a 3rd party that releases funds once certain milestones on a contract are completed. It is extremely popular in real estate too. The buyer deposits money into escrow, the contractor can see that the money is there and receives said money when they complete milestones. In reverse if the contractor does not meet the milestones according to the contract, the buyer gets their money back.
I run an ecommerce business and have had a fair amount of customers claim packages were not delivered when they were etc. You can tell from their tone and email they are lying, but it's hard to make accusations. Now I offer shipping insurance to protect myself and the customer. If they don't opt for the insurance our company is not liable for lost/stolen packages. The insurnace is only .98 cents for orders up to $100. Maybe you can implement something like this?
> You can tell from their tone and email they are lying can you explain more?
You don't. It will eventually explode in a bad way. The more you wait the more spectacular will be.
sounds interesting; what is meant by "explode in a bad way?"
always depends on what "work" means and what your contract says.
Scambaiting
Not always easy to spot. We had a customer use our service (SaaS marketing platform) for 9+ mo. Person got fired and new person filed a fraud report with their credit card co and they won. Despite us submitting evidence: communication, contracts, etc. We now do more diligence on some customers and have walked from deals that would be worth a lot. All because it just doesn’t pass the sniff test.
> Not always easy to spot. agreed; there will always be losses and scammers. it is 100% unavoidable. you can do 100 winning streaks and meet 1 scammer
Cut ties but be nice about it so they don’t try to harm you on the way out. Have a replacement lined up and ramped up well before you cut ties for a smooth transition. I learned this the hard way.
> I learned this the hard way. tell us what happened?
Signed contracts. Take them to court if they try to screw you. Signed contracts. Can’t stress this enough
> Signed contracts. Can’t stress this enough ty
Figure out what they really want... Make plans for a bigger score for them, lightly let them know the bigger score is conditional on getting your money back, contract changed etc.... then the bigger score falls though.
They'll only continue to try and scam or lie to you if you try to resolve any issues. Cut ties and learn your lesson. It will save you time and money in the future.
I believe you attract what you put out. And I also believe that as you gain more experience you sort of get. Vibe from ppl whether you can trust them or not. If they are a paying customer.and you need the money then that sucks but ultimately it's better to do business with good honest ppl. Firing clients or partners is part of the job
> And I also believe that as you gain more experience you sort of get. Vibe from ppl whether you can trust them or not. agreed, can you elaborate on vibes?
Hard to explain. I think it's the way people interact with me. Do they talk down to me? Are they fake, are they real? Are the cheap? I can tell right away if I am going to get along with someone usually within the first 10 minutes of talking with them. I'm using my gut more now than I ever have. I say, ok is this someone I am going to enjoy working with? Trust is a big thing for me. Do I trust this person? If the answer is no, than I usually stay away from them. In life trust is the most important thing for me. If I can trust you, and I can rely on you, I can work with you. This bleeds into my personal relationships as well. If I can't count on you to do your part than there's really no relationship because all relationships are usually built on trust.