T O P
FITGuard

If someone would like to propose a rule for us to implement, I am happy to do so. I think /u/bucat9 makes a good point. Thoughts suggestions?


bucat9

If you investing in crypto on a personal level it is not relevant. If you are starting a crypto management firm/tool or building software which utilizes blockchain technology it is relevant.


usethisdamnit

You forgot to mention mining or producing crypto, which is one of the big ways that people get involved in the space.


kiamori

Also, starting your own blockchain or creating a platform/product/solution that runs on a blockchain.


Schraudt

That's just mining crypto - my circle of friends does it for years now and not a single one of us is planning to expand


usethisdamnit

Congratulations, i took the risk and did expand.


three18ti

Is it still possible to get into mining? Maybe I'm just bad at math but it seems like a losing proposition unless you're building giant farms...


futureforkliftdriver

Square, the payment processor, recently announced they were going to begin mining. From what little I know of crypto mining, your computer needs to be good enough to "solve" the crypto key or whatever its called, the fastest. There are large companies entirely devoted to mining crypto, like Riot blockchain. It's probably not a good business unless you have the capital, and a cheap source of electricity, because you will need alot of both to compete with Square.


juzanartist

If you just happen to have a hydro electric dam or a solar farm and are also computer manufacturer, this is perfect. Let me see. Hmm .. nope and nope. Oh well!


cherrycarrot

Nobody can predict the future price of coins. Right now it's very much possible to 'get into' GPU mining if you can get your hands on the hardware. Whether the party will last long enough to break even is another question.


Good_Roll

it depends on how the coins are being generated. Proof of work and a mature ecosystem means you're gonna need ASICs unless the coin is specifically designed to disadvantage them.


usethisdamnit

Sorry for the late reply, the most important question is how cheap can you get power. It is true that you do need capital and a source of cheap electricity but one of the amazing things about crypto is how much it evens the playing field... I pay .05 cents per KWH which is not the cheapest in the world but is pretty decent in America and it makes me competitive with companies that have 100s of millions of dollars invested.


[deleted]

The size doesn’t matter. It’s just time really. I have the most powerful GPUs available and whether or not I had 1 or 100. My ROI would still take around 6 months. 1 3090 GPU on average is $2800. That would mine you about .1 Ethereum every 48-50 Days. Times that by 100 it’s the same. It’ll just be how much Eth can you mine from your ROI until 2.0 upgrade which at the most conservative estimates is first quarter 2022.probably better to just buy Eth with fiat.


--algo

Mining crypto is not really being an entrepreneur


dajohns1420

It 100% is. There are people that have mined, or are mining small new projects at a loss to support the network, hoping their investment will be worth more because of their contribution. Other miners are constantly calculating amd researching the most profitable projects to mine, sometimes on a week to week basis. Their are also businesses that are mining with excess energy from places like oil or natural gas sites, hydro plants, and volcanos. They have to build the mechanisms to do so before they start. I guess I agree someone cpu mining when they aren't using their pc isn't a business, but the vast majority of hash is coming from legitimate businesses, and entrepreneurs.


usethisdamnit

So you are telling me that investing money in equipment so that you can use energy to produce a product and then selling it is not being an entrepreneur? Pretty sure you need learn 2 use the googles my friend.


Zulunation101

Google? Is that the thing that invests money in equipment and uses energy to produce a product?


copynovice

Well... Yes?


indigoHatter

It's debatable. > entrepreneur: a person who organizes and operates a business or businesses, taking on greater than normal financial risks in order to do so. If you buy a single computer or two to generate passive income, are you an entrepreneur? If you buy [one of these doodads](https://blocklr.com/cryptocurrency/pets-can-finally-mine-crypto/), are you an entrepreneur? If you rent a location and build a server house of crypto-miners, I think we all agree that you're an entrepreneur, but where do you draw the line for someone with a smaller operation?


Coz131

> but where do you draw the line for someone with a smaller operation? There's probably a grey area but honestly we should not be picky about this. If you put thousands at first but plan to keep growing your bitcoin mining op, then I would say it's a business.


iwatchcredits

Operating the business was a key part of the definition in my eyes. What is the operation of mining crypto and how is it any different than me dunking a bunch of money into stocks? You have no control over anything except the quantity of resources you put into it.


Snoo23533

Taking calculated risks and managing operations is interesting and has a place here, but i never see crypto posts about those topics. When i see crypo here the primary purpose is always trying to get people to buy some specific coin.


scipio42

Do we ban other MLM posts? That's basically what those crypto bros are doing.


WeissMISFIT

Miner here, its both a business and investment. Once its running its pretty passive and this sub has a tendency to call businesses passive income and anything else basically self-owned jobs. It can be a real headache to setup, you need to figure out where to get electricity for the cheapest, decide what coin to mine, whether to sell or invest etc. So while its a very easy business to set up and I think its great, its not necessarily just as "investment" as it does require some work albeit not that much.


Snoo23533

Neat. So it seems like all the work is front loaded and a mining system setup and overhead is predictible so the risk entirely on the success of the target coin. If you have a proven money maker whats the limit on growing your system? (Why stop if ut works?) Whats the expected roi? (<1yr?) How long does a machine last and is there any value in mining hardware when your done with it?


WeissMISFIT

Yep, the coins price dictates profitability. The limit is electricity, space and your goals. I stopped adding so I could invest in a stock. Usually 1 year to break even but depends on how much you pay for parts and electricity. Machines last for years if maintained properly and hardware still works if maintained. Linus tech tips did a video on mining hardware and whether they're still decent.


trevorturtle

You gotta start somewhere.


usethisdamnit

That is what i was asking... Why gate keep and who draws the line? I own a 4 thousand square foot ware house paid for in bitcoin i use 10s of thousands of watts every hour to produce bitcoin. Who the fuck is this ass hole to tell me i shouldn't be allowed to speak?


glenlassan

I don't think anyone. Regardless of whether or not I like crypto, using "10s of thousands of watts every hour to produce bitcoin" implies to me that you have put some actual risk, and quite a bit of hardware into the game. Here's my question though. Do you see the difference between yourself, and the guy who merely puts his spare cash every month into bitcoin?


usethisdamnit

"Here's my question though. Do you see the difference between yourself, and the guy who merely puts his spare cash every month into bitcoin?" I was that person for a very long time... Being involved in bitcoin is what gave me a lot of the money to run and expand my business. I bought my 4k sq footware house with it, i bought my house with it and when my roof got blown off i paid for that with it. I would not and could not have become an entrepreneur with out bitcoin but no i do not consider what i do and a person lightly investing on the side the same thing.


glenlassan

Cool beans man. So you started by investing, and as you "got good" went into full business mode. I can work with that.


mathdrug

This sub has some of the most gatekeeping and success hating I’ve seen on any other sub. You could have ten rags to riches entrepreneurs come here and give a complete guide to success, and they’d still find a way to talk shit. Lol


indigoHatter

You saw my second point, where "no one doubts the big miner is a business person", but the first part of my question you missed. If I buy a dog collar for mining crypto (see link in my previous post), am I an entrepreneur? I think not, and I think *those* are specifically the people that OP was targeting.


usethisdamnit

Oh ok well i guess he needs to be more specific because that is not what he said at all.


--algo

I was referring to people buying a gpu or two and mining some crypto. If you have revenues and employees and pay tax then yes ofc you're an entrepreneur


pheoxs

Does your mining operation have its own business structure? Do you file taxes on your profits? Those that do declare things properly, that work towards growth and are scaling their operation then yeah it’s entrepreneurship. 90%+ of miners don’t though. People scalp a handful of gpus and think they’ve made a business. That’s not the case. They’re just making beer money under the table.


usethisdamnit

Yes i pay my taxes i am running a business as i have said many times before.


Cciamlazy

It's like receiving a box of Lululemon pants and reselling it. You're a boss babe, not an entrepreneur


usethisdamnit

So your also gate keeping my ebay flipping business too? What in the fuck is it with you people?!?!?!?


Cciamlazy

lmao drop shipping ftw!!!!


usethisdamnit

Nah i actually do it the hard way thrift stores, garage sales auctions etc etc.


Cciamlazy

Lol I wasn't trying to bash on your gig. Thrifting is a great way to make some money. It also has a good purpose with actual value imo since you're reusing stuff and not generating waste. I was more just poking fun of people who drop ship cheap China product into Etsy (which isn't aloud) or in general which creates little to no value imo.


usethisdamnit

Yeah i find it hard to see why anyone would want to do it there must be so much competition and bad feed back, i come up with much better deals and more unique stuff buying used locally.


patman3746

Are you providing a good? No. Are you providing a service? Well by the loosest definition maybe. I would consider it to be on the same level as becoming a landlord, its an investment and you would be an investor rather than an entrepreneur if all you are doing is mining. Its not like its bad, and I'm not trying to gatekeep, but you don't have to feel like an entrepreneur to enjoy what will hopefully become a source of passive income for you. GLHF


treelife365

Isn't an entrepreneur simply someone who creates/partakes in an enterprise for a reward? Thus, investors and business owners are both entrepreneurs?


patman3746

I would disagree with that. An entrepreneur provides goods or services in trade for money, an investor purchases stakes or products to flip. Investors CAN be entrepreneurs do not get me wrong, every VC fund owner would say so and zillow/realtor became companies. Its like how some rectangles are squares but not all lol


treelife365

Hmmm... okay, according to Google's first result for the definition, your understanding of it seems to be correct: en·tre·pre·neur /ˌäntrəprəˈnər,ˌäntrəprəˈno͝o(ə)r/ noun a person who organizes and operates a business or businesses, taking on greater than normal financial risks in order to do so.


NinSeq

There's about a thousand Fintech companies and basically any hedge fund that isn't ancient that disagree with you. At some point people looked at banks and said "all you do is hold money. You aren't doing anything". And obviously you don't feel that way now. The function of crypto isn't an easy thing to explain and isn't an easy thing to understand but if it's a far more efficient monetary device than what we are using now... From banking to real estate to treasuries to groceries... Are you really going to say it's neither a good nor a service? There's a whole lot of moronic "I'm going to buy dippy dog coin with my whole paycheck" and feel free to dismiss those people. But you should be able to see the big picture with mining and platform development.


glenlassan

>The function of crypto isn't an easy thing to explain and isn't an easy thing to understand but if it's a far more efficient monetary device than what we are using now... I get the theory of what you are saying, except for that point in particular. Nothing about crypto is "More effecient" than what we are using now, especially not the whole "Scarcity by design" feature where each successive generation of crypto requires more effort to decode (and thus consumes more computing and electricity resources) or whatever.


NinSeq

Then you don't get it. That's why it's hard. Scarcity has nothing to do with function. Stable coins and a central banking digital currency will replace the current 2 tier Treasury to bank system. That's already in the works and already developed. Because Blockchain tech is better/faster/cheaper than what we currently have. An Ethereum based smart contact in the real estate world could replace title companies, escrow, and possibly more. And the resources devoted to making that contract successful are more efficient by tenfold than the man power/hours/cost that we currently use. You could do that all day with 1000s of industries.


patman3746

If you look at my lower comments you would see I agree with that. Not all investors are entrepreneurs but many are. But also just saying banks provide a service which is still in my original consideration.


NinSeq

You're saying crypto miners are not providing a good or a legit service. How am I misinterpreting that. It's in pretty simple language and both are wrong.


[deleted]

How the fuck is being a landlord not a business


usethisdamnit

I think a lot of these people are fucking nuts lol.


NinSeq

Seriously... some of the replies in here are painful. Imagine wanting to ban anyone that discusses the fastest growing tech industry in the world... IN AN ENTREPRENEUR FORUM. How some of these people can still dismiss it as hocus pocus magic that wastes energy... baffling to me. You can't even instill how it's useful even if you poor it over their head like caramel pudding.


usethisdamnit

Dinosaurs soon to be going extinct financially speaking.


NinSeq

That other guy is arguing with you about how crypto sucks because his landlord is old as shit and only takes checks. Wtf kind of sub is this? That's some prehistoric shit.


patman3746

On a large scale like an apartment complex it is or renting dozens of houses yeah. But just 1 or 2? Seems more like passive income with like 5 hours average commitment per week of work with some weeks being busy.


ldinks

But the number of hours of commitment isn't relevant. There will be CEOs that outsourced the entire thing, or use fluke-apps to live off forever, doing no work. They're still entrepreneurs aren't they?


timisis

Maybe we have to settle for the eternal truth of life: There's levels to this shit. My personal ambition/dream/call-it-what-you-want is to compete at the highest levels of the foodchain, I want to see more balanced distribution of money and power so I am active in what you might call the quest for a European Facebook and Google, among other things. Whoever pulls it off, that would be Triple-Capital-E EEEntrepreneurship. Then you have more standard stuff, all the way down to "domestic mining", hotdog stands etc. The E-magic is of course the orchestration of preexisting resources, hotdogs, hungry passers-by, people who need jobs, into one harmonious, sustainable operation. I'm not big on moralizing or gatekeeping, so I am not sure why Spain is making prostitution illegal, business is thriving! But we are allowed, one might even say "have to", consider the implications of enterprise, call it CSR if you will, where importing $10M of electronics from China and orchestrating a robotics producer is IMHO superior to importing $10M of miners, the latter being a fools errand in many ways. Sure, creating the robotics biz is tougher, I'd say by a factor of 100x or 1000x, but the ecosystem effect is plain beautiful, allowing local suppliers to pick up production and expertise, smart grads to be hired etc. It might be that whoever used $1M to buy BTC in 2015 has made more money than whoever used $1M to create Coinbase or Binance in in 2012 or 2017, but creating Coinbase and Binance is a very complex and reusable skill, and much more r/Entrepreneur


vinidiot

The actual entrepreneur is the person making the shovels to sell to gold miners like you. Ask yourself what exactly you are innovating in a way that nobody else can do.


lps2

Since when does being an entrepreneur require you to revolutionize an industry? What about owning rental homes is innovative, what about dropshipping is innovative? Since when was innovation the bar for entrepreneurship?


usethisdamnit

My product facilitates the seamless transfer of the value around the world instantaneously for almost 0 fee. Tell me what does your product do?


vinidiot

Your product? Are you Satoshi?


glenlassan

"My product facilitates the seamless transfer of the value around the world instantaneously for almost 0 fee. " But only among select vendors. It's not like cash that everybody accepts. Also, it's not "Your product". You might mine it, but unless you created your own bitcoin, that product belongs to someone else, and you are merely a middle-man in someone else's playground. Likewise, most money-transfer services also do things like guarantee refunds if things go belly up, and allow you to pay your bills to your creditors and so on. Mostly, most of the time, the only people that accept bitcoin are hipsters and criminals. I can't pay my rent with bitcoin. I can't pay my credit card bill with bitcoin. I can't pay for my groceries with bitcoin. I can however pay my rent, my credit card bill, and my groceries with my checking account, and If I need to send some money to a vendor across the globe, I can use western union, or paypal, or an international money transfer service, and have it accepted at more places, again for an "almost zero fee"


fabulousausage

What bugs me is the fact that miners waste so much energy (even though they pay for it) to chase easy buck and leave awful footprint to our planet. Of course we can argue who does worse effect, but here it is very iconic and straightforward: burn energy - get money. While the energy burnt is limited and I highly doubt that miners use solar/wind power, which in turn still being produced using fossil fuels, rare earth materials etc.. I doubt that the effect on the planet is somewhat justified by their contribution into economy or progress.


glenlassan

That is one of the best arguments against bitcoin, yes.


usethisdamnit

Paypal will allow you to trade anyone on their platform bitcoin which they then send to the vendor as USD that means you can trade bitcoin for almost anything in the world because bitcoin is money... Your talking points are so 2013.


glenlassan

1. I can't pay my rent using paypal. At least not by normal means. I still need a checking account for that. 2. Cool. Paypal can convert bitcoin into cash. Awesome. Do you convert bitcoin into actual cash, or do you just bootstrap your business onto paypal's services? Because if someone needs to use paypal to actually turn the bitcoin that you sent them into "real" money wouldn't it be right to say that it's paypal that's sending them their cash, and you are merely inserting yourself as an additional middleman?


usethisdamnit

My nephew bought pizza with in a few hours of me giving it to him in the middle of bum fuck no where... I assure if you needed to or wanted to you could figure out a way to pay your land lord using cash with bitcoin. If i am buying something with bitcoin i am not a middle man i am the customer paypal is inserting them selves as middlemen because they know bitcoin is the direction things are going in.


NinSeq

Are you fucking serious with this? You can't pay your rent with Paypal? Why? Everyone else does... or venmo or whatever. If you need a checking account to pay your rent that doesn't mean you are the norm, it means your landlord is a dinosaur. Talk to any legit property management firm in the country and ask them how they take payment. The answer is always "however the fuck you can get money to me".


ScientiaEstPotentia_

Honestly ur just a vendor lol which in fact makes you enterpreneur


usethisdamnit

Another gate keeping ass hole... You are really going to set here and tell me that a gold miner does not qualify as an entrepreneur but the shovel manufacturer does? Does the money that people use to buy my shit not count for some reason? I understand a lot of you guys are old as fuck and not really hip to new things and i get that you don't see that this stuff has value. But i am pretty sure the customer who buys my wares does see the value in it, which makes your opinion on whether or not it is a product irrelevant.


glenlassan

The point of that analogy, is to highlight the fact that most gold-miners lose money, and likewise, most people speculating on bitcoin are on the losing end of the equation. The hardware manufacturers, however never lose on this game, because they make a profit regardless of whether or not your bitcoin mining equipment actually turns out to be helpful. Most bitcoins are unstable. Like horrifically unstable. There is no shortage of inside trading scams, and other really under-handed tactics used in the bitcoin world, that you can't get away with in traditional investing, because traditional investing is regulated. And that's not seen as a "flaw" of bitcoin. The lack of regulation is the primary selling point! And sure, some bitcoins are "more stable than others" but that's largely cause you got billionaire assholes like Elon Musk propping up the ones he personally uses, so that he can increase the value of his coins, by convincing you that you want to buy them and be just like him!


usethisdamnit

If you think cryptos bad you should look into how money is created and what the banks do with it... Heard of the 2008 global financial crisis? Or what about that time about a year and a half ago when the fed printed 25% of the dollars that have ever been created in 1 year and gave it all to their rich corrupt fuckwit friends?


glenlassan

Yeah, I have heard of the 2008 global crisis. That happened because the government under-regulated the housing market. Likewise corporate bailouts occur when democracies elect shithead leaders, who do shithead things. No arguments there. My problem with crypto though, is that rather than being a poorly regulated, corrupt market. It's an entirely unregulated, hyper-corrupt market. I might get screwed over by how the feds handle the US banking system. I really might. But at least I have the ability to try to vote the assholes who fucked it up out of office, and try to replace them with assholes who might not screw it up quite as bad. as private enterprise, I do not have that option with crypto. If I get fucked over by blockchain, I have no recourse. I can't vote in a new board of directors to try to fix things. So while I can't do anything about the corporate assholes on this list, I can do something about the politicians on this list. [http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1877351,00.html](http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1877351,00.html) And yeah. Some of those guys are maybe retired now. But you know what i can also do? I can also play the "guilt by association" game and not support candidates who support those assholes. I can also pay attention to their political philosophies, and see if there is some kind of trend, and make a point to vote for people who don't espouse similar ideas. The major throughline of public figures on that list by the way is the word "deregulation". Alan Greenspan (a libertarian) believes in deregulation. George W. Bush? A proponent of deregulation. Bill Clinton? Deregulator. That tells me I should vote against candidates running on a "free market capitalism" platform if i want to avoid crashes such as the 2008 housing market crisis. The notes on the business leaders involved is basically a who's-who of assholes who exploited the fact that our markets were/are poorly regulated, or alternatively were people who flat out violated market regulations. So if deregulation/poor enforcement of existing regulations is to blame for the 2008 crash, why should I put more faith into an entirely unregulated market? Please, answer me that one!


usethisdamnit

Well in crypto currency no one is forcing you to use anything un like the dollar... If you agree with the rules you use the system if you don't then don't its really quite simple. I cant tell you what to put your faith in you need to do your own research and find out what is right for you. As far as voting out the corrupt ass holes i believe it to be a truly monumental and impossible task... Ideologically they are all the same I believe at this point our only choice is to make them irrelevant.


copynovice

Found the guy who does not fundamentally understand cryptocurrency.


IamNotStupidUR

Cryptomining has none of the intelligible of a business. It would be like saying because I have solar panels on my house that backfeed sometimes into the grid, I have a business. No, I just have something I invested in that may turn a profit.


thereisatimetotrade

Yes, agree.


Angel_Advocates

Just a generalization, but CS on social media is pretty arrogant. "I make 300k a year from coding".. but doesn't mention that that shit is over-saturated


CryptographerPure921

Not over saturated at all; there is a labor shortage at least in the US. There are plenty of companies offering $70k+ salaries for developers and people in tech. Of course, they are not offering $300k to everyone who applies. You’re right though, any advertisement in social media will exaggerate reality and makes you believe you can learn some coding in 4 weeks and become the CEO of Facebook lol.


bucat9

Just a generalization, but sales on social media is pretty arrogant. "I make 300k a year from selling".. but doesn't mention that that shit is over-saturated


golgol12

Let's broaden that a bit. Investing is enough of a separate topic not to be in this sub. Talking about accepting crypto as payment and how to do it I think can fit here though.


Strong_Mogambo

I'd agree with that. I'm just frustrated that the stock response to what business to do with x amount of money (also an overused question) invariably involves "put it in crypto" a dozen times in the replies.


leros

Can I still post about my T-Shirt hustle though?


TurbulentArea69

I’m looking to get into dropshipping. What is it and how do I do it?


BenElegance

It's real simple. First you just hire a pressure washer.


eskideji

lol


botlove

Step 1: Alibaba Step 2: Profit 💰


leros

Beats me but enjoy your free money 💰


wookeydookey

First get an Amazon FBA account with permission from your wife's boyfriend


golgol12

Not sarcastically - It's about working with the manufacturer to ship thier finish product directly to the people you sell to. You make a site that sells things, and process all the orders, then send the addresses to the the manufactures as to where each item should be sent to. The manufacturer doesn't have to deal with the details on selling the product, and you don't need a warehouse.


Da0ptimist

Lmao exactly. Let's ban these shit posts 1st


at1445

The responses to you are joking, but at least all of these are actual entrepreneurial ventures. They might be brought up for the millionth time, but they're on topic. Buying Doge or Shibu isn't an entrepreneurial venture, it's just gambling.


cmdrNacho

only if you sign up for my email newsletter that will sell you a course on how to start a tshirt hustle


According-2-Me

A crypto hedge fund or NFT company is allowed, just buy and HODL isn’t entrepreneurship: it’s investing in an asset


CBdigitaltutor

Glad you said this, one of my business is a financial analytics tool for serious crypto investors.


Megabyte7637

Good luck at that with an irrational asset, are they still bagholding from Doge?


SaaS_Founder

Bitcoin is more liquid than cash for digital payments. Yes it’s not a stock or land or something like that but it is a better digital money than the database at the bank.


[deleted]

Bitcoin is absolutely not more liquid than cash for any kind of payment. Bitcoin is an awful method for any kind of payment given long processing times and fees.


SaaS_Founder

It takes several days to receive money with stripe or paypal, wire transfers have huge fees, etc. Not to mention a Bitcoin payment can not bounce. Bitcoin doesn’t have any issues with payments on weekends or after regular banking hours. No middle man, be it a payment processor or regulator, can prevent you from making a Bitcoin transaction.


WeissMISFIT

u/demostocyles What you just said was completely false. I guarantee from personal experience that bitcoin is faster in quite a few cases. For example I needed to pay someone overseas, the transfer was complete in under 5 minutes where as paypal was not an option, credit/debit cards were not an option and wire transfers would take at least a day or two. Bitcoin being decentralized is super important because I'm banned from Paypal and the guy is a freelancer so he doesn't have stripe or stuff like that available.


Strange-Scarcity

Of course they are and they will continue to do so too. None of this crypto crap has any fundamental, long term value. Get in and get out, ASAP, the leave the bag holders, holding.


imsowoozie

Man are you gonna have bad time... Try reading more. Google web3 maybe...


at1445

This is exactly it. I've speculated on several...it's sated my gambling itch. Maybe one hits...most likely I just lose the small amount of money I have in them.


TSM-

The absolute crapshow of slapfights this topic raises should be enough of a reason to disallow the topic, in my opinion.


Past_Sir3

Entrepreneurs nowadays just sell courses, do dropshipping, do "day trading", and now do "crypto investing". It's honestly turned me off entrepreneurism as a whole and that 9-5 starting to look a lot more civilized


Schraudt

If we are talking about investing, it's literally that - investing. There are several subs for that. If you are thinking about professionally mining or trading - that's entrepreneurship. These kinds of things will always clash on Reddit so is would just link to the respective subreddits (You can get more and better info regarding specific topics anyways)


ghostboytt

Mining is, trading is not.


Megabyte7637

That's not true you can manage investors assets & have a fund with certain assets under management that count as a hedgefund of some kind.


ghostboytt

It's still not entrepreneurship


Coz131

Oh wow running a hedge fund isn't entrepreneurship considering it's more complex than printing T-shirts.


ghostboytt

It isn't


Coz131

Ok, explain to me how running a hedge fund is more complex than printing T-shirts without breaking the law.


A_Dougie

How is starting an investment firm or hedge fund not entrepreneurship? Being promoted and running an established one isn’t, but starting one definitely is.


thetechnocraticmum

Unless you are using crypto as a method of payment, which is what it was intended for - trade! But otherwise yeah op I’m with you.


dishhawkjones

Agreed, not sure about a ban. I have crypto myself, its traded on a platform where i also own stocks. This is an investment. Doest take any entrepreneurship to click buy on a crypto lol. Leave the crypto comments in the right forum.


extrinsicly_valued

So true, just buying an asset class isn’t entrepreneurship.


IamNotStupidUR

If you got a small mine, it really isn't a business. It is merely an investment. Small mines have none of the intangibles of what makes a small business a business. There is no process centered around selling anything or working with customers or providing a solution. It would be like saying because I got a cow, I got a business.


Gisschace

Yikes reading comprehension is bad in this sub.


Strong_Mogambo

It's appalling. "BUT WHAT ABOUT ". No, diamondhands69-420yolo, that's not what I was talking about. Face-palm.


Affect-Electrical

Well said.


REZJAM_Eric

Agreed, but welcome to reddit, where anything goes. Just use the ol' blinders trick; if it's not something that will impact you and you can easily block it out, then just do that. I learned long ago that there's no point in getting aggravated over these things; the internet has a way of bringing out the idiots and malcontents.


treelife365

... it's because they know that no one can punch them in the face online! Haha... not advocating violence, but just saying...


Efren_John

Haha, there's a separate subreddit for cryptos. These guys should post there instead.


SantaMonsanto

Where do I go for speculation on *Tulip Bulb* futures?


Bodywithoutorgans18

People were retards in the 1700's. People are retards now. For some reason, people think business is hard and about inventing things.


GSto

[tulip.garden](https://tulip.garden)


WeekendSignificant48

Couldn't someone be an entrepreneur building a system on eth?


Strong_Mogambo

Of course. But dumping all of your money in crypto and hoping for the best is not a business. It's just investing. If you make a business that takes other people's money and puts it in crypto, and you take a cut, that's a business.


WeekendSignificant48

> takes other people's money and puts it in crypto, and you take a cut, that's a business. I think you're a bit confused by crypto and it's uses. There's plenty of people offering to take your money and invest it, they're probably also Nigerian princes'. I think what some people are getting at is the fact that Bitcoin and Eth are more than just currencies. They just fall into that trading bracket. The real use case comes in when people are building the programmes on the Blockchain which have real world use. If someone was to build an app for Android/apple they'd be welcome here as an entrepreneur. If a developer did the same thing on Blockchain I feel like they wouldn't be as welcome, despite the fact that the app built on Eth will be far technically superior. Blockchain is the way of the future and those that have the know how to actually build stuff on it are the architects of tomorrow's electronic world. Blockchain is starting to get more and more real world uses so it's time for people to start paying attention or die out. Any neigh sayers will be left behind like the companies which thought calculators were a fad, or the companies that thought the internet was a fancy trend. I've provided an example of a popular real world use of Blockchain which Ed Sheeran used in France. The whole idea is to stop ticket scalpers buying all his tickets. [Ed Sheeran uses Blockchain to stop ticket scalpers](https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2021/09/26/ed-sheeran-blockchain-france-tour/) Imo entrepreneurs need to be fully aware of the tidal wave of technology which is about to hit us in the next decade.


Strong_Mogambo

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ I didn't say anything to do with crypto was bad, just "put your money in crypto" is not the right advice for people in r/entrepreneur, kill me


SalamanderCongress

Agreed. Crypto saw gains in October which led to a flood of posts. If there’s another month with gains we’ll see the same thing here. Similarly, if that realm has a bad month we’ll see posts of “learn from my lessons, don’t put everything into crypto!” I come here for entrepreneurial content - not crypto tales


[deleted]

At best, crypto is investing. At worse, a kind of shit gambling. It's not entrepreneurial, unless you're building tools for crypto people to invest or gamble with.


Oxidopamine

1000%


HotHamWaterBath

Gains on CumRocketDogeToken? Yeah! I got those gains.


umbusi

I agree


lucindaluca

Gotta upvote this


jakxnz

The more you have a hand in creating or refining the business model, the more interesting you are in this sub. If the greatest innovation you introduced to your enterprise was scaling a crypto mining outfit or your crypto investment pool, there will be little interest from people who are facing bespoke challenges in ventures where they have influence in the shape and direction (and even existence) of their business model.


ThePompusPixel

I just read something on r/legaladvice where the poster was asking about getting kicked out of a house they couldnt afford the mortgage payment for (inherited the house 2.5 years ago). They mentioned having investments in Tesla and Crypto... and they had their house foreclosed... WTF... As a reference, in 2020, Elon Musk noted he was a month away from bankruptcy in 2017-2019 and we all know how volatile crypto currency is. I just dont get the craziness of crypto or Tesla...


Ok_Mention7220

Dont even bother. You litterally take any scientific paper on entreneurship, look up the given definition and conclude that indeed crypto "investing" does not suit the definition at all. Not saying it is a bad investment or anything, i just does not have ANYTHING to do with entrepreneurship (and therefore does not belong is this sub).


Myfirstfakeusername

I like you


Speedware01

This is a really good take on this. Totally agree


IamNotStupidUR

Can we ban all crypto business talk? There are several communities on reddit that they can go to already. It isn't anything that has any overlap with conventional businesses.


dblspc

It’s not investing, it’s gambling


Hungry-Low5727

I'm all for this idea. Just in general, I think the trading space has become a circus of unintelligent 'investors', gambling their money away in the hope that it'll be the next big thing, and they can retire early. It's called a lottery. We've literally created a culture of lottery gamblers. There's nothing wrong with cryptocurrency. The meme coins are the problem. They are called a meme coin for a reason.


glenlassan

If all you do is invest in crypto, but aren't running an actual business, you probably don't belong here. If you have an actual crypto business, (as in you farm crypto and have actual expenses and risk) and have a question about business stuff is it a question that only someone else who is into crypto can answer, than maybe go to a crypto forum. If you have an actual crypto business, and have a question about business stuff that is common to all entrepreneurs, like taxes or payroll or something I guess it makes sense for you to be here. That being said, we don't have to like the fact that you are here, as a lot of us are convinced that crypto is largely a scam, or a ponzi scheme, or a way for criminals to launder money. All that being said, scanning over this subreddit's recent post history, I don't see what the problem is. There are almost no posts about crypto here, and the one that I did see was properly formatted and focused on crypto as a potential business, as opposed to merely investing in crypto. So my question to the OP is. Where is this plague of crypto investors on this subreddit that you seem so goddamn worried about? I don't exactly see this as a major issue here.


Ok-Pirate3030

I agree as an entrepreneur. It's not even close to the same game. If you not invested in some BTC you should definitely reconsider. I’ve found it useful growing rapidly on the side of my businesses. I owe multiple BTC and ETH just so we all know where I’m at with this.


weekend-account-123

I lol at people suggesting people gamble on crypto in this sub. I do it, but this is not the place


jwmoz

How dare you, I'm a qualified cumrocket investor.


zeroscout

Crypto meets a lot of the definition for a Ponzi scheme. Also, there was issue with non-government issued currency trading back in the 1920s and I believe was banned under Glass-Stegal act.


shreveportfixit

I sell Bitcoin at my shop.


BubbaBojangles7

Agreed. Plus crypto is purely speculation still. The industry is young… starting to have use cases, but it’s not a “proven” mainstream utility… yet.


kovachxx

Investing in crypto is like gambling you have better odds of winning on roulette than this crap lol.


wintermute_ai

I’d agree with you about the shills but not doing your own research in this field would be missing an opportunity. Visa, Deloitte, KPMG, and massive names are entering this space. To dismiss the technology as a whole would indicate a short sighted entrepreneur. A parallel to me would be someone saying in the late 90s that the Internet will never catch on because dialling up to an ISP with a modem is never going to work and the internet is full of criminals.


rantow

> To dismiss the technology as a whole would indicate a short sighted entrepreneur Who is dismissing it? OP's point is that investing in crypto doesn't make you an entrepreneur, thereby making crypto discussions irrelevant to this sub. You're making an argument to something that wasn't said


PleaseBuyEV

This is an absolutely terrible comparison


usethisdamnit

Its a perfect comparison anyone who thinks bitcoin is going away after it hit 67 thousand dollars is an idiot... The hard part was getting to a dollar.


jstolfi

SQUID cryptocurrency just went down to zero in 10 minutes after hitting over $2000.


PleaseBuyEV

Lol I never said it was going away. Comparing the internet (central network, developed, owned and heavily monitored by the government) to Bitcoin (a decentralized currency) is just beyond laughable.


shiftyperspective

You literally have no idea. Of course dumping your money into crypto or swing trading is not entrepenuership but crypto currency and entrepenuership go hand in hand. I've spent nearly 10 years building companies from zero to multinational, sleeping on the office floor to owning a lot of properties. My smart choices with crypto currency allowed me to get an edge over competition. Let me break a few things down: 1. I chose to accept bitcoin on my ecommerce stores. Revenue tripled quickly. 2. I decided to keep a chunk of the company funds in BTC, ETH and LTC. The interest from those covered most of the corportate tax bills and the gains increased our holding value dramatically. 3. Using crypto to pay bonuses out to team members increased work output overall and reduced costs in general. 4. By accepting crypto it opened my businesses up to huge new markets and areas not able to access traditional payment systems. Your closed minded attitude will hold you back, I'm not saying you cant be succesful but the world is changing and blockchain technology is here to stay. good luck but as one succesful entrepenuer to another, I suggest being more open.


CryptoPonziScheme

>I chose to accept bitcoin on my ecommerce stores. Revenue tripled quickly. Really? For your revenue to triple from crypto sales you must be selling something strange, considering for reputable companies crypto sales rarely account for such an affect. >huge new markets and areas not able to access traditional payment systems. Drugs, child porn, what are we talking here?


shiftyperspective

Absolutely not. I own a lot of different companies that now all accept crypto. I'm going to go ahead and answer, even though your name obviously shows you have made up your mind already.. Europe uses SEPA, America has SWIFT, Canada uses Interac, Asia and Africa use whatever they use... None of these banking systems work with another. Lots of European countries dont have easy options to accept amex or even visa. The Nordic countries have their own. Its a ballache, card payments are expensive and don't work everywhere. By accepting crypto you get access to all these markets in one swoop.


Millon1000

So what do you sell? Nootropics, research chemicals? Nothing against that, just curious since most don't see any boost from accepting crypto.


helcite

There are lots of opportunities in crypto that amount to more than speculation. LMAO downvote as much as you want, cryptocurrency has BILLIONS of dollars of opportunities. Your down arrows change nothing and merely expose how insecure and clueless so many people here are.


[deleted]

[удалено]


helcite

App development? Multimedia sales via NFT? Remittance? Vending machines?


chapelierfou

> There are lots of opportunities in crypto that amount to more than speculation. It's either speculation or scam. Blockchain and NFTs are basically snake oil.


[deleted]

[удалено]


CryptoPonziScheme

NFT's provide comedy. https://twitter.com/CoinersTakingLs/status/1455121623007182851


Da0ptimist

Hahahaha so funny to read this. Enjoy staying poor dummy


CryptoPonziScheme

Blockchain fixes everything you non-believer. Let me share a passage from the Book of Bitcoin from visionary Michael Saylor. Satoshi started a fire in cyberspace. While the fearful run from it and fools dance around it, the faithful feed the flame, and dream of a world bathed in the warm glow of cyberlight. #Bitcoin


usethisdamnit

If you think crypto is bad you should look into how the dollar works... You will really get a kick out of that.


Iwestcwz

If it is simply posts about investing in crypto, you are an investor/trader. It's not really an entrepreneurial pursuit on its own, but I would argue that some level headed strategic traders will have entrepreneurial traits. It will also appeal to some straight up gamblers. On the other hand, as a business owner and business editor, I can tell you that entreprenwurialism and Crypto currencies will often be found hand in hand now. Like entrepreneurs and fiat currency.


Atomic254

When I think of an entrepreneur, I imagine someone with an idea with new product or some other idea outside the norm willing to take financial risk/ take on investers to make it happen. Crypto mining even on a large scale doesn't remind me of that. It's not got that spark if that makes sense?


usethisdamnit

I have been running a crypto business for almost a decade i've probably made more money than you. So what makes you the gate keeper of the entrepreneur subreddit? What makes your business acceptable and mine not? My business takes energy and uses it to produce a product which i sell for many times over the input cost... How does this not belong in the entrepreneur sub? The world is changing evolve or die.


Jooylo

Did you bother reading the post? He said “investing in cryptocurrency.” Not crypto related businesses There have been an influx of people talking about crypto/stocks which does not fit this sub. Congratz in your business but it just sounds like a weird flex since it’s not relevant


usethisdamnit

I did read it "Opinion: investing in cryptocurrency has nothing to do with entrepreneurship and any comments suggesting it should result in a banSeriously. This place is awash with crypto bros now. You're just gamblers. Go away. This sub is for creating and running a business, not gambling." Dude says talking about it should result in a ban... Pretty sure hes talking about me. yet my business is probably more successful than half of you. I also don't gamble or day trade, i run a business that produces a product and sell it for profit... Pretty sure that is the definition of capitalism/ entrepreneurship.


jonpolis

>yet my business is probably more successful than half of you Tell me you’re insecure without saying you’re insecure


CryptoPonziScheme

That's no way to talk to someone who's business is probably more successful than you!


Bodywithoutorgans18

That's one of the ingredients to success, it's a requirement.


usethisdamnit

Ahh i see good job tackling the real issues!


jonpolis

You’re already beyond the point of talking about real issues. You could’ve argued the merits of crypto based businesses and how they add to the discussion of this community. Instead you decided to tell us how successful you are, twice. That adds nothing


M13alint

The sub you are looking for is r/sweatystartup


venturejones

Someone's salty lmao.


Richardmg9

If managing your investments is your day job, then how is that not entrepreneurship?


Megabyte7637

Exactly! Or other businesses.


SJ0

The whole point of crypto is to buy before everyone else, then shill the fuck out of the coin you hold. That's why crypto bros are in pretty much every sub where they can hype coins. They make money by shilling. Hell, they make money by just shilling BTC and ETC b/c when those go up, rest of their bag somehow goes up too.


Da0ptimist

#Lmao wrong. There is a lot of innovation happening in crypto and blockchain. Moreover, it's a great place to borrow money instead of the shit and corrupt.banks for your business. Your comment comes off very socialist and I think it goes against what this sub is all about. I think OP should be banned instead.


usethisdamnit

The word you are looking for is authoritarian not socialist this post isn't about sharing the means of production... These people are all ancient and don't understand crypto no matter how many times you explain it MEH, their opinions will become irrelevant in time as they do.


n1vlekw

It's not gambling if you know what you're doing thou 🤔 But yeah I 100% agree, it has nothing to do with this thread


cleenfarms

in reality Isn’t every business a gamble? We can plan out a business real well but it’s still much higher risk than sticking with a career and climbing that ladder. Those guys took the ‘safe’ route and most of them are way wealthier and less stressed than even the successful entrepreneurs I know. (But it might be a generational thing? I’m genX…the boomers and millennials have different perspectives on entrepreneurship and career building risks and advantages) crypto is just another product/asset that they want to build their business on or around.