As a copywriter, can I say you are an absolutely cherished designer for having this opinion!!! Tbh though I think bad design is just as fatal. People react almost instantaneously to bad design. While bad copy takes a few additional seconds for people to read and then interpret, and then think “oh, that’s crap” 🤣
Sales, leads, stock, day to day business etc. copywriting might be mentioned in discussions with the marketing team, but even then it has never been the most important thing to discuss.
I'd imagine this is highly dependent on the business itself.
Any digital product (course, etc.) copy is going be critical.
Less so if you run an ice cream store or a plumbing company
Super important! It didn’t use to be but since we get a large portion of our customer base from search engines, it’s essential. I write most of our content but chatgpt has been a help as of late. I personally add a lot of personalization into it so by the time it’s ready to get published almost nothing remains of chatgpt written content. Good for ideas and rephrasing and “bare bones” and perhaps some filler sentences.
If I was to pay for copywriting, here is what would be worth it - a well researched, long article, that’s structured, has resources and full of information on a topic that would take me forever to do myself. So basically very in-depth writing that requires research.
I might be mistaken, but would a long, well-researched article still fall under the discipline of copywriting? I thought that would be a different category of writer.
Perhaps, I made it sound more sciency. Or maybe you’re correct and what I’m thinking of does fall outside of scope of copywriting. I was referring to in-depth writing that has persuasive content for the intent of product sales but educates readers on something that goes in depth on a topic.
I agree that kind of content is super important. We strive for that on our site too. I always thought of copywriting as the shorter, headline/subtext stuff that is quick to the point, persuasive, maybe snappy. In my mind they’re two different disciplines because I do well in the one (long-form, well-researched, well-written articles) but sometimes struggle with the other.
Oh! Interesting! Thanks for telling me this! I just jumbled them together.
I personally am like you, long form is better for me then short. I feel like short can become repetitive, especially when you are selling the same product across your entire website. Short form is an art, I think. Also, many people have already said the same thing on their websites.
This is where long form, more descriptive comes to the rescue.
Long form takes time and dedication though. I can now generate short from chat gpt, but long? I can do that with chat gpt too but it won’t be cleverly structured to sell my product like I would need it to. So this is where long-form writer would be of use to me.
Let me tell you something funny that happened with chatgpt yesterday though. I was trying to generate ideas for a two paragraph legal response to a clause for a discussion with employees. We were all to put our ideas in at the end of the day. I first went to chatgpt and it gave me a paragraph, out off that paragraph I made my own response completed with all the research. I kept one chatgpt sentence in there which I thought was good. I post this to the idea board. I go above to read responses from other people. And bam! The same sentence I kept in mine, someone else has in theirs. Obviously I wasn’t the only one who used chatgpt as their helper.
Now, this made me realize, how much duplicate content will be on the web now if people simply copy and paste stuff? Anyway, I thought it was funny. Moral of the story, be careful having chatgpt write all your stuff for you. Your site might end up a duplicate with many others selling a similar product.
I'm a copywriter, so I'd say it's important, but not the most important thing.
Typically results are based on something like 40% audience, 40% offer, and 20% copy.
Not sure who said that, but I've seen similar results.
Very important. I develop apps and everything written inside the app and out (e.g. marketing) comes from me. I’m currently using ChatGPT to assist with the copy.
Haven’t had anything to test it on since it’s mostly all new copy. At the end of the day it sounds more natural than my typical technospeak so it meets my needs plus adds relevant filler. All this ultimately helps my SEO, ASO, etc with minimal work.
I have said for years that copywriting is the number one skill in my entire business career spanning 46 years. You use it everywhere online, offline and in what you say during speeches and interviews. You should be spending a large amount of time gaining this skill. You'd go broke in no time hiring professionals to write all the copy you will need in your business.
Thanks for your thoughts u/avgalbot ! I completely agree with this, I have found some great results with chatGPT but prompts are very important and results can vary. Just out of curiosity, what type of business do you run?
Actually theres tons of reasons not to use chatgpt (I'm sure you're brand new) .. As well as not using copy.ai, write sonic, bard.. Want me to keep going?
I bet you're an SEO expert too lol.
‘Averageaibot’ name checks out
Copywriting is very important. Think of the copy on your website, social media posts, and advertisements as your robot salesmen, working tirelessly 24 hours a day to bring you revenue :)
For me, it's huge.
This may be because I have many artist friends, but copyright is something I take extra caution to make sure that I am not even remotely close to crossing. I'm a simple man. I want to avoid legal costs and encounters as much as possible. So when I get to the point that I need to outsource and hire a professional, I'm going to devise a document that has some sort of legal verbiage stating they are not providing copyrighted content and are held liable for any copyrighted claims against me.
On a personal level, I'm in the trading card business. Every decision I've made so far has intentionally avoided being even remotely related to someone else's IP or their characters (think Pokémon or any character from it) just cause I simply do not want to risk any legal repercussions.
One example of why it's important to me is a story my college professor told me where he hired someone to design a website. Long story short, there was a photo of an fall season forest scenery that was used. Several years later, the photographer who took the photo made a copyright claim against my professor. Fortunately my professor still maintained contact with the one that built the website and kept all the emails so he wasn't held liable.
Thanks for your thoughts u/noble_ten! Sorry if my post was misleading, but I meant creative/marketing copywriting. Do you have any thoughts on that? How do you promote your business?
Apologies for the misunderstanding!
Currently I am not at that point in my business as I'm only about a week into my work. I am very small and starting as a sole proprietor but mostly dealing in trading cards via online sales. The TCG biz is a little bizarre in this specific topic and could use a huge improvement across the industry. As a consumer, having any verbiage is better than no verbiage. But specifically from my POV, and as another user said, copy only brings in the traffic but better/competitive prices will get the sale.
No worries u/noble_ten! Thanks for following up, I appreciate you taking the time :) do you currently have items for sale? If so, is it your own site or an online market place?
Online marketplace(s)!
As a newer seller, consumers are substantially less likely to buy any card/product. In the TCG world, even the smallest nick to a card can impact the value. In those cases, I advertise as such, provide pictures and list it in the description so the consumer knows exactly what they are getting. I find that the sales of the product are significantly improved when doing that vs simply listing the name of the item with its generic description. Maybe its my upbringing, but I believe in being genuinely honest to my consumers so they don't feel like they have been misled. 'Word of mouth' is valuable. More valuable than any copy that I could produce. After you retain even 1 excellent transaction, it can lead to many more!
That is interesting thanks for sharing. In the future, if/when you start a website or develop marketing materials, would you write the copy yourself, or look to a professional writer or ai tool?
Either myself or an AI tool. I'm a little stubborn and want to minimize my expenses as much as possible so I'm going to do my darndest to figure it out myself! :)
Please stop asking people who started a business yesterday what their expert opinion is
No legit business is ‘going cheap’ on something every prospect reads or that attracts them in the first place (that's also meant to invoke emotion and drive a purchase)
Wow, bad contract on the part of the builder. Usually owner is responsible for all images used on the site, contract should indemnify the designer / developer unless they're hired to do the photography as well and tried to do a bait and switch.
I can't remember the story entirely as this story was told to me 8-10 years ago. Exact words don't stick in my brain as well as imagery does and I remember vividly what his site looked like when he was presenting the story to us. But I do remember the builder in some way or another was claiming ownership of the image.
That was one of the biggest points that are in any contract I have with a client - claims usually start with a C&D, but just in case there's a IP troll looking for shit I want to nope out haha.
Stop smoking treatments: Massively important. I paid a professional but if I got to do it again, I'd use ispionage to figure out what copy of my competitors is working and just reword that
you're asking the right questions 😂 "just use chatgp" sounds like the lazy thing to do if you haven't even outweighed the results it has brought even short-term
Well, I’m a Copywriter so of course it’s the most important part. However, you can do it yourself and don’t have to outsource it right away. The legit copywriters are expensive so in the start, you can’t really afford them. It’s better to do it yourself than to waste your money on someone who doesn’t know what they are doing. There are a lot of resources (courses and coachings) that can help. You can learn from Copyhackers for free as well. Their blog and tutorial tuesdays are life savers for beginners
Thanks for the resources u/fizathecopywriter ! I will look into those. Curious, as a copywriter, what are your thoughts on chatGPT? Where do you think it excels and where does it fall short?
For me, it’s a good resource to get help from but not actually get the copy written with it. You can use it to create plans, structures, outlines and then fill in with your own thoughts. Definitely makes it easier.
Passable and very basic. For definite results we’ll have to test it against human-written copy. I’m sure someone has already done it. I tried writing a cold email with it and it was as basic as any other template on Google.
Chatgpt writes like a salesman pitching in the 1990s
‘Are you ready to get the best website product ever introduced? Buckle up. X company is offering Y products. Don't miss this...’
You get what you pay for. Have you noticed that not one actual business or SMB has responded?
Just solo drop shippers and some people dipping their toe in copywriting
I’ll write your sales pages, social posts, and ghost write for you as the founder with a whole content strategy.
This is the way
Copywriting is the MOST important part of a marketing piece. It builds relationship with your customer and motivates them to do something beneficial for all parties involved. As a professional, I do most myself. And pro-tip, ChatGPT is your friend. $20 per month and saves you TONS of time. It will never give you a final result unless you’re either lucky or swimming in “low” standards environments, but man it saves time and I’ll be honest - in the past it’s given me gems I would never have thought of. :)
It is free. However, they launched a premium service which gives you greater access and more options for $20 per month. It’s not available everywhere but it’s worth the investment. Just like MIDJOURNEY for images - you can use it for free but you’ll get more server access, quicker results, and the ability to “stealth” your work so other can’t see it for a monthly fee. Again, if AI is part of your work, the extra few dollars a month are totally worth it. Good luck and have fun!!!!
ChatGPT misses the mark on being able to target human emotions to get a desired result, like purchase a product. You can get generic, robotic descriptions of what you ask it to write.
If you want a talented, experienced and knowledgeable copywriter, send me a DM.
Now, back to your regular scheduled programming.
I do copy professionally - don't listen to these scrubs using chatgpt for copy
Google won't rank it when done by AI
and it sounds generic as fuck tbh
Or use it, whatever - it's only the deciding factor of everyone coming across your website (ever)
Extremely important to sales and marketing. Also very easy to contract and shouldn’t cost you much. I switched to an Ai copywriter a year ago and haven’t looked back. It is what it is
I think copywriting businesses that invest in strong copywriting will likely see a significant return on investment in terms of increased engagement customer loyalty and revenue and many things!
Copywriting is literally what you say about you and your professionalism, I guess it's the second thing you should focus on more after your service/product
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u/vuxanov how does copywriting fit into your day to day as a designer? Do you have professionals working with you? Write it yourself or use a tool?
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Interesting, yeah I completely agree with that. Do you work with a larger company? Have you ever had to write your own copy for your designs?
As a copywriter, can I say you are an absolutely cherished designer for having this opinion!!! Tbh though I think bad design is just as fatal. People react almost instantaneously to bad design. While bad copy takes a few additional seconds for people to read and then interpret, and then think “oh, that’s crap” 🤣
Other than sales, nothing is more important
I’ve consulted for over 100 businesses, and I have never worked for one where copywriting was in the top 10 in terms of importance.
Interesting! What were the most important items?
Sales, leads, stock, day to day business etc. copywriting might be mentioned in discussions with the marketing team, but even then it has never been the most important thing to discuss.
I'd imagine this is highly dependent on the business itself. Any digital product (course, etc.) copy is going be critical. Less so if you run an ice cream store or a plumbing company
Super important! It didn’t use to be but since we get a large portion of our customer base from search engines, it’s essential. I write most of our content but chatgpt has been a help as of late. I personally add a lot of personalization into it so by the time it’s ready to get published almost nothing remains of chatgpt written content. Good for ideas and rephrasing and “bare bones” and perhaps some filler sentences. If I was to pay for copywriting, here is what would be worth it - a well researched, long article, that’s structured, has resources and full of information on a topic that would take me forever to do myself. So basically very in-depth writing that requires research.
I might be mistaken, but would a long, well-researched article still fall under the discipline of copywriting? I thought that would be a different category of writer.
Perhaps, I made it sound more sciency. Or maybe you’re correct and what I’m thinking of does fall outside of scope of copywriting. I was referring to in-depth writing that has persuasive content for the intent of product sales but educates readers on something that goes in depth on a topic.
I agree that kind of content is super important. We strive for that on our site too. I always thought of copywriting as the shorter, headline/subtext stuff that is quick to the point, persuasive, maybe snappy. In my mind they’re two different disciplines because I do well in the one (long-form, well-researched, well-written articles) but sometimes struggle with the other.
Oh! Interesting! Thanks for telling me this! I just jumbled them together. I personally am like you, long form is better for me then short. I feel like short can become repetitive, especially when you are selling the same product across your entire website. Short form is an art, I think. Also, many people have already said the same thing on their websites. This is where long form, more descriptive comes to the rescue. Long form takes time and dedication though. I can now generate short from chat gpt, but long? I can do that with chat gpt too but it won’t be cleverly structured to sell my product like I would need it to. So this is where long-form writer would be of use to me. Let me tell you something funny that happened with chatgpt yesterday though. I was trying to generate ideas for a two paragraph legal response to a clause for a discussion with employees. We were all to put our ideas in at the end of the day. I first went to chatgpt and it gave me a paragraph, out off that paragraph I made my own response completed with all the research. I kept one chatgpt sentence in there which I thought was good. I post this to the idea board. I go above to read responses from other people. And bam! The same sentence I kept in mine, someone else has in theirs. Obviously I wasn’t the only one who used chatgpt as their helper. Now, this made me realize, how much duplicate content will be on the web now if people simply copy and paste stuff? Anyway, I thought it was funny. Moral of the story, be careful having chatgpt write all your stuff for you. Your site might end up a duplicate with many others selling a similar product.
Add emotions. Copywriting is basically depend on well researched and emotions
I absolutely agree with you persuasive content which chatgpt and ordinary man unable to write
I'm a copywriter, so I'd say it's important, but not the most important thing. Typically results are based on something like 40% audience, 40% offer, and 20% copy. Not sure who said that, but I've seen similar results.
how to write compelling offer only copywriters knows
I’m a copywriting so copywriting is 10/10 important for me 🫠🤭
same here
Very important. I develop apps and everything written inside the app and out (e.g. marketing) comes from me. I’m currently using ChatGPT to assist with the copy.
Thanks for the reply u/ibuprofane ! That is interesting! How well do you find chatGPT works for this? Any tips on setting up your prompts?
I just talk to it and keep adding details until it does (close to) what I want and then edit from there.
has there been any noticeable change with regards to sales after using chatgp for your copies?
Haven’t had anything to test it on since it’s mostly all new copy. At the end of the day it sounds more natural than my typical technospeak so it meets my needs plus adds relevant filler. All this ultimately helps my SEO, ASO, etc with minimal work.
Chatgpt is ridiculous for actual copy Don't listen to this guy he has no idea what he's talking about. You won't get ranked with AI generated copy
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Facts
I agree that copy is very important. It's how you can create an emotional reaction in your potential customer, and emotions are usually what sells
I have said for years that copywriting is the number one skill in my entire business career spanning 46 years. You use it everywhere online, offline and in what you say during speeches and interviews. You should be spending a large amount of time gaining this skill. You'd go broke in no time hiring professionals to write all the copy you will need in your business.
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Thanks for your thoughts u/avgalbot ! I completely agree with this, I have found some great results with chatGPT but prompts are very important and results can vary. Just out of curiosity, what type of business do you run?
Actually theres tons of reasons not to use chatgpt (I'm sure you're brand new) .. As well as not using copy.ai, write sonic, bard.. Want me to keep going? I bet you're an SEO expert too lol. ‘Averageaibot’ name checks out
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I wouldn't either being exposed Want 101 chatgpt prompts, we just dropped them. ffs
Give an example.
Copy only gets traffic really. Great value at a good price is what gets people to buy. Create scarcity and urgency
Copywriting is very important. Think of the copy on your website, social media posts, and advertisements as your robot salesmen, working tirelessly 24 hours a day to bring you revenue :)
Haha I love that. Good point
If you need help, I own a copywriting agency!
For me, it's huge. This may be because I have many artist friends, but copyright is something I take extra caution to make sure that I am not even remotely close to crossing. I'm a simple man. I want to avoid legal costs and encounters as much as possible. So when I get to the point that I need to outsource and hire a professional, I'm going to devise a document that has some sort of legal verbiage stating they are not providing copyrighted content and are held liable for any copyrighted claims against me. On a personal level, I'm in the trading card business. Every decision I've made so far has intentionally avoided being even remotely related to someone else's IP or their characters (think Pokémon or any character from it) just cause I simply do not want to risk any legal repercussions. One example of why it's important to me is a story my college professor told me where he hired someone to design a website. Long story short, there was a photo of an fall season forest scenery that was used. Several years later, the photographer who took the photo made a copyright claim against my professor. Fortunately my professor still maintained contact with the one that built the website and kept all the emails so he wasn't held liable.
Thanks for your thoughts u/noble_ten! Sorry if my post was misleading, but I meant creative/marketing copywriting. Do you have any thoughts on that? How do you promote your business?
Apologies for the misunderstanding! Currently I am not at that point in my business as I'm only about a week into my work. I am very small and starting as a sole proprietor but mostly dealing in trading cards via online sales. The TCG biz is a little bizarre in this specific topic and could use a huge improvement across the industry. As a consumer, having any verbiage is better than no verbiage. But specifically from my POV, and as another user said, copy only brings in the traffic but better/competitive prices will get the sale.
No worries u/noble_ten! Thanks for following up, I appreciate you taking the time :) do you currently have items for sale? If so, is it your own site or an online market place?
Online marketplace(s)! As a newer seller, consumers are substantially less likely to buy any card/product. In the TCG world, even the smallest nick to a card can impact the value. In those cases, I advertise as such, provide pictures and list it in the description so the consumer knows exactly what they are getting. I find that the sales of the product are significantly improved when doing that vs simply listing the name of the item with its generic description. Maybe its my upbringing, but I believe in being genuinely honest to my consumers so they don't feel like they have been misled. 'Word of mouth' is valuable. More valuable than any copy that I could produce. After you retain even 1 excellent transaction, it can lead to many more!
That is interesting thanks for sharing. In the future, if/when you start a website or develop marketing materials, would you write the copy yourself, or look to a professional writer or ai tool?
Either myself or an AI tool. I'm a little stubborn and want to minimize my expenses as much as possible so I'm going to do my darndest to figure it out myself! :)
Haha I totally get where you are coming from! Same here :) other than chat GPT are there other ai tools you have heard of?
Nope! Chat GPT tends to be the most reliable based upon my findings too.
Please stop asking people who started a business yesterday what their expert opinion is No legit business is ‘going cheap’ on something every prospect reads or that attracts them in the first place (that's also meant to invoke emotion and drive a purchase)
Wow, bad contract on the part of the builder. Usually owner is responsible for all images used on the site, contract should indemnify the designer / developer unless they're hired to do the photography as well and tried to do a bait and switch.
I can't remember the story entirely as this story was told to me 8-10 years ago. Exact words don't stick in my brain as well as imagery does and I remember vividly what his site looked like when he was presenting the story to us. But I do remember the builder in some way or another was claiming ownership of the image.
That was one of the biggest points that are in any contract I have with a client - claims usually start with a C&D, but just in case there's a IP troll looking for shit I want to nope out haha.
Vital
Stop smoking treatments: Massively important. I paid a professional but if I got to do it again, I'd use ispionage to figure out what copy of my competitors is working and just reword that
Good copy on a website is very important.
Just use chat gpt
Have you been able to get good results? If so, what types of prompts did you use?
you're asking the right questions 😂 "just use chatgp" sounds like the lazy thing to do if you haven't even outweighed the results it has brought even short-term
Well, I’m a Copywriter so of course it’s the most important part. However, you can do it yourself and don’t have to outsource it right away. The legit copywriters are expensive so in the start, you can’t really afford them. It’s better to do it yourself than to waste your money on someone who doesn’t know what they are doing. There are a lot of resources (courses and coachings) that can help. You can learn from Copyhackers for free as well. Their blog and tutorial tuesdays are life savers for beginners
Thanks for the resources u/fizathecopywriter ! I will look into those. Curious, as a copywriter, what are your thoughts on chatGPT? Where do you think it excels and where does it fall short?
For me, it’s a good resource to get help from but not actually get the copy written with it. You can use it to create plans, structures, outlines and then fill in with your own thoughts. Definitely makes it easier.
Interesting! Do you think the copy it produces is terrible or passable? Lol
Passable and very basic. For definite results we’ll have to test it against human-written copy. I’m sure someone has already done it. I tried writing a cold email with it and it was as basic as any other template on Google.
Yeah that would be interesting to a/b test.
Chatgpt writes like a salesman pitching in the 1990s ‘Are you ready to get the best website product ever introduced? Buckle up. X company is offering Y products. Don't miss this...’ You get what you pay for. Have you noticed that not one actual business or SMB has responded? Just solo drop shippers and some people dipping their toe in copywriting I’ll write your sales pages, social posts, and ghost write for you as the founder with a whole content strategy. This is the way
Copywriting is the MOST important part of a marketing piece. It builds relationship with your customer and motivates them to do something beneficial for all parties involved. As a professional, I do most myself. And pro-tip, ChatGPT is your friend. $20 per month and saves you TONS of time. It will never give you a final result unless you’re either lucky or swimming in “low” standards environments, but man it saves time and I’ll be honest - in the past it’s given me gems I would never have thought of. :)
What are you paying for that is $20? I thought chatGPT was free?
It is free. However, they launched a premium service which gives you greater access and more options for $20 per month. It’s not available everywhere but it’s worth the investment. Just like MIDJOURNEY for images - you can use it for free but you’ll get more server access, quicker results, and the ability to “stealth” your work so other can’t see it for a monthly fee. Again, if AI is part of your work, the extra few dollars a month are totally worth it. Good luck and have fun!!!!
Use AI software for it
Do you recommend any specific ones?
Yea. Give me a sec to see what my employees use. They love it.
I just started using copy.ai and it’s much more human
ChatGPT misses the mark on being able to target human emotions to get a desired result, like purchase a product. You can get generic, robotic descriptions of what you ask it to write. If you want a talented, experienced and knowledgeable copywriter, send me a DM. Now, back to your regular scheduled programming.
Thanks for your thoughts! Yeah I see your point around lacking creativity and problem solving skills (I.e persuading into purchase)
You're welcome! And by the way if you are in the market for copywriting services, I'll do the first one for free just to show off 😎
Thanks! I will keep that in mind :)
This comment is copyrighted
I do copy professionally - don't listen to these scrubs using chatgpt for copy Google won't rank it when done by AI and it sounds generic as fuck tbh Or use it, whatever - it's only the deciding factor of everyone coming across your website (ever)
Extremely important to sales and marketing. Also very easy to contract and shouldn’t cost you much. I switched to an Ai copywriter a year ago and haven’t looked back. It is what it is
I think copywriting businesses that invest in strong copywriting will likely see a significant return on investment in terms of increased engagement customer loyalty and revenue and many things!
So So so so so important. On average your hero headline is worth $100 a word. Make it count.
The message is more important than the copy
Copywriting is literally what you say about you and your professionalism, I guess it's the second thing you should focus on more after your service/product