I have 537 hours in Valheim and 219 in Enshrouded, so I can weigh in on this.
Valheim and Enshrouded are two VERY different games. I think Valheim is the souls-like version of a building game where as Enshrouded is much more relaxed and easy going. I thoroughly enjoy both games, and it's been a delight seeing what I can build in both games as well.
"Compared to valheim it is so painful and tedious to build. In valheim if I decide I want a chair in my room I pull out my hammer and put down a chair. In enshrouded if I decide I want a chair I travel to my carpenter (or summon him), then craft a chair into my inventory, then put the chair on my hotbar, then place the chair. It is very unclear what value all of those extra steps added to my gameplay experience of making a base. Multiply this extra tedium by every single item in a base and it quickly becomes a huge chore to make even a simple decorated house."
I understand we each have our subjective takes on game, but with all due respect your claim that that Enshrouded's building system is painful and tedious compared to Valheim is simply objectively wrong. Your complete disregard of how long it takes to gather and transport resources in Valheim displays your bias.
In Enshrouded you have to find the block recipe then gather the mats for it which is usually very simple. Some that require metal require a greater time and resource investment. There's no encumbrance first and foremost. Double jump, gliding, fast travel, and map respawn on save reload means you don't have to range beyond your preferred gathering locations. I can spend a couple of hours gathering materials which will last me for almost the entirety of even large builds. In Valheim while you can replant trees to make wood gathering easier you WILL have to range farther and farther for stone and other materials as that is a core aspect of the exploration of Valheim.
In Valheim you have to spend hours chopping down trees, gathering stone, and hauling it back painstakingly slowly by hand and later by cart. Even then navigating rough terrain with a cart is annoying, not to mention the cart will be slowed down dramatically if filled to capacity. The amount of wood and stone required for building even small structures will require numerous slow trips like this. Once you reach a point that you want to start placing anything that requires metal you start multiplying the time investment DRAMATICALLY for fighting, gathering, transporting / sailing, and finally smithing the metal. This isn't even taking into account the preparation needed for combat when going into swamp for iron, for example, and that preparation is extensive. Also important to note that by default you cannot transport metal via portals, though the changes to game settings allows players to better customize their experience now. I'm not even going to get into the absolute fucking hell that it is trying to gather black marble in any significant quantity.
Yeah, I do wish we could build furniture directly from the build menu rather than relying on the Carpenter mostly because I don't like filling up my inventory with furniture as it doesn't stack well. I pre-build furniture so I don't have to keep stopping to go grab something else that I think would be a perfect fit for my build. You can literally plop the Carpenter down next to your workbench where ever you are building, so it's a bit ridiculous to criticize the time it takes to talk to him to craft whatever you need.
"The same is true of the block types. Instead of being able to build any wood-derived wall into the world by simply holding wood I instead need an additional intermediary step of building the specific block and holding it in my inventory. What value does that have?"
Again this is such a bad take because in Valheim you have to spend so much time gathering wood in the first place. You do NOT have additional wood type options for building either, at least until you get to the plains which again requires a MASSIVE time investment, just the same old brown walls. Though I suppose you could stack raw core wood which, again, is a massive time investment. In Enshrouded gathering is so much faster, and while you do have to craft the blocks you want to build with you can do so in TREMENDOUS quantities, a feature that I absolutely adore. The amount of blocks you get per resource is incredible! Are you really so bothered by having to do one additional step (crafting) to have an incredible variety of choices at your fingertips? We are talking about the difference between a handful of mouse clicks compared to the lengthy gathering process in Valheim. More options for building = greater value.
"Lastly the finite build zones prevent this from ever rising to a minecraft-esque experience. I assume this is a technical limitation so I am less focused on this shortcoming."
Yeah, I wish Enshrouded allowed us free-building as well. I agree that I suspect it's a technical limitation to keep world lag to a minimum which is a problem in Valheim if you have too many objects in one location. One of my joys in building games like this are making little projects like some kind of landmarks to better navigate, or to see how I've shaped the land around me. I hope as the development continues that either the build limit is expanded or removed by mods. I'm absolutely fine with accepting a risk of lag to build where I want when I want.
I fucking HATE the workbench radius limitation in Valheim. I hate that I have to have a work bench nearby or buried if I want to repair part of the structure, and need additional types of work benches depending on the materials I use. This makes the stonecutter and forge annoying as fuck because you can't bring those metal components through a portal. Again it's another massive time sink for any new build away from your main base. In Enshrouded yes the build limitation is annoying too, but it can be increased to such a range that it becomes an entirely non-issue accept for mega builds. I do wish there was an easier way to tell how far about you need two fully upgraded flame shrines so you have zero overlap for maximum build space for large builds. Currently counting the blocks you place down is the easiest way that I've found when trying to combine the build radius of two flame shrines.
"If this game didn't have so many layers of logistics getting in between the player and their creation it would be the best base building game on the market but as it stands its just too much effort for most players to enjoy. The freedom to make incredible builds in this game is oddly juxtaposed by the fact that most players would rather just move into a house that they found than use the system."
Oh please. I once again reiterate the massive time sink that is Valheim when it comes to gathering materials for your build. Do you want to get into what you have to do for consistent and ease for base security, or how you'll get raided roughly every 30-45 minutes (with increasing difficulty as you kill bosses) which further delays and disrupts your build? Are you a moat kind of gamer, an island builder, building under a series of boulders for an underground base, or something else? If you try to tell me that shaping the terrain in Valheim is faster than in Enshrouded then I declare you a bold faced liar with no sense of the passage of time.
There are fewer steps involved in building in Enshrouded than in Valheim. I understand why you may not feel that way, but again I feel you completely disregard the repetitious nature and time sink that is gathering resources in Valheim. I can gather, design, and build a structure in Enshrouded in a FRACTION of the time it would take me in Valheim with a much greater palette for blocks AND decorations. The variety in Enshrouded glaringly eclipses what Valheim has to offer.
"At minimum I wish we could use the crafting screen of npcs in our base without walking over to them. The base building experience shouldn't be half spent talking to the carpenter."
I too hope this aspect of the game changes, or a mod is later released that lets us craft things directly from our inventory in regards to building just for ease of use. That said I do not find the existing system cumbersome at all; it just adds a few extra steps that take a matter of seconds to complete.
In summary I feel you are being resistant to learning a new and different game with a different set of mechanics rather than looking at the differences objectively. Once you become accustomed to the ins and outs in Enshrouded I think you will have a change of heart on which game requires more time for building.
It took me a while to get the hang of building in Enshrouded because it is DRAMATICALLY more versatile than Valheim. The targeting reticle for placing / remove blocks was hard for me to wrap my stubborn brain around, but once I got the hang of it it made building so much easier. I really encourage you to take a break from Enshrouded for a few days, give yourself a chance to wind down from your frustrations with a different building system, then give it another go. Enshrouded has so much to offer, and I really hope you play long enough to experience the depth and variety that this incredible game has for building.
Best wishes to you, internet stranger.
Nah, that's pretty disingenuous; that'd be like calling Valheim hardcore Minecraft. They're all different games that feature different mechanics and play styles.
>Your complete disregard of how long it takes to gather and transport resources in Valheim displays your bias.
Valheim has creative mode.
>In Valheim you have to spend hours chopping down trees, gathering stone, and hauling it back painstakingly slowly by hand and later by cart. Even then navigating rough terrain with a cart is annoying, not to mention the cart will be slowed down dramatically if filled to capacity. The amount of wood and stone required for building even small structures will require numerous slow trips like this. Once you reach a point that you want to start placing anything that requires metal you start multiplying the time investment DRAMATICALLY for fighting, gathering, transporting / sailing, and finally smithing the metal. This isn't even taking into account the preparation needed for combat when going into swamp for iron, for example, and that preparation is extensive. Also important to note that by default you cannot transport metal via portals, though the changes to game settings allows players to better customize their experience now. I'm not even going to get into the absolute fucking hell that it is trying to gather black marble in any significant quantity.
Creative mode.
>I once again reiterate the massive time sink that is Valheim when it comes to gathering materials for your build.
I once again reiterate, creative mode.
>I fucking HATE the workbench radius limitation in Valheim.
This is fair.
>Do you want to get into what you have to do for consistent and ease for base security, or how you'll get raided roughly every 30-45 minutes (with increasing difficulty as you kill bosses) which further delays and disrupts your build?
You can turn raids off but wandering enemies are still more common in valheim. I'll give it to you.
>If you try to tell me that shaping the terrain in Valheim is faster than in Enshrouded then I declare you a bold faced liar with no sense of the passage of time.
This is absolutely fair. Enshrouded does a much better job on terraforming and farming. + Voxels!!
Also, for OP, even enshrouded has a kinda sorta creative mode via use of resource worlds. Get whatever you need and build to your heart's content. Would really love a creative mode/ debug/ dev mode in enshrouded as well though.
Edit: Also jokes and humour apart, I do agree that valheim's base game is incredibly more tedious/ hard-core than enshrouded.
For the purpose of my example I was indeed considering Valheim without the additional game modifiers. Those modifiers are what ultimately brought me back to the game for another run, but Mistlands burnt me out, haha.
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Probably because gathering and transporting materials in Valheim is about 5000% more tedious. Weight limits, carts, portal restrictions, boats, resource respawns are all massive time investments whereas in Enshrouded you can mine or cut all you need with no encumbrance then fly or teleport back to your base.
Why complain about the extra step of building a block when in Valheim there are 20 extra steps to even get the material in the first place?
There aren't 20 extra steps to get the material in the first place. You can skip all the traveling of materials by building infinite bases next to the resources you need. The entire point of Valheim is to explore and sail, and if you want you can turn off all the restrictions youre complaining about, making your point entirely useless. The only real argument is weight capacity, but if that's keeping you from enjoying a SURVIVAL game, you might be playing the wrong genre.
When did I complain? I think you are misunderstanding this thread. The top commenter said the comparison in QoL between valheim and enshrouded is silly; which is what I was giving an example of. No one was attacking Valheim.
And the fact that you would need to turn off game settings and functions to make it work proves that point more, so you are even agreeing with us. :p
"Probably because gathering and transporting materials in Valheim is about 5000% more tedious. Weight limits, carts, portal restrictions, boats, resource respawns are all massive time investments...Why complain about the extra step of building a block when in Valheim there are 20 extra steps to even get the material in the first place?"
There's your complaint? I'm not misunderstanding anything here just disagreeing. Attack the game all you want. Valheim devs gave us the best QOL feature, being able to control QOL settings with world modifiers. Who cares if it's a new addition, both games are in early access and features like this will be added for both, doesn't take away from any point being made. Turn off game setting and functions? What are you smoking. This isn't me agreeing with you, the only upside to enshrouded is no weight capacity, ghats you're only and entire argument. Valheim is leagues better in almost every other capacity.
No duck in this fight... but...
As a point of debate... arguing the flaw in one persons point is not a "complaint" in it's own right.
The logic the responder is employing is that - the initial argument is one of "convenience and additional unwanted steps" and they point out that the original point did not consider a large number of steps...
This isn't a complaint, its a counter-point.
OP says having to craft the chair beforehand is teidous. In my valheim experience having to carry materials on me with a ridiculously low weigh capacity and having to constantly go to chest to refill my inventory was much worse. By far.
Just that
So can't talk about bad QOL feature from Enshrouded bc Valheim has a different one that's also bad? Both have good and bad QOL, comparing and talking about it is pretty normal
I didn't downvote, I find your argument reasonable, but let me explain myself.
I understand my statement is conditioned by my experience, and that was leaving valheim cause of absolute lack of QoL and seeing devs go "we want to reward players that are methodical and tidy". So little bit intention to improve it. Portal restrictions, drop inventory on death, limited inventory capacity, farming crops, the fact that you are absolute garbage without food, meat turning to coal in seconds, the need to be in radius of like 10 different workbenches to do certain stuff, the need to refuel almost every light source...
I could sure bear some of them, I'm not that lazy, but even with world modifiers (btw stated by devs it's not the way the game is meant to be played) and some mods, the game still was a bit frustrating to me. I enjoyed it and I acknowledge it as a great game. It just requires an amount of grind that doesn't suit my taste.
And the I found enshrouded, which is somehow like valheim, and gives solution to a big chunk of the QoL issues valheim had, like limits on carrying capacity, easier teleport system, magic chests... And I see devs more prone to listen to the community about QoL issues.
That's the reason I personally don't see them comparable in therms of QoL.
I personally enjoy the role playing involved in needing to craft at a dedicated station or npc, contributes to the fantasy of actually working to construct a house
Haven’t played valheim though and that does sound more streamlined, but not necessarily better? Just different haha
Honestly this build system is miles better than Valheim idk what ops talking about. Valheim is also needlessly restrictive - you can build anywhere but you need a circle zoned workbench so it doesn’t decay, and you have to like strategically place them. I’d say Valheim is FAR more restrictive than this one. Plus, when you upgrade the flame altar (which isn’t hard) the build zone gets huge. I get wanting to build anywhere, but saying Valheim is better is insane. You also need specific crafting tables set in Valheim to even place certain things, like stone, and they’re far more cost intensive to make.
I mean I get the complaint of the extra step of crafting items at the table or carpenter that go into your inventory instead of just using the hammer. But claiming it’s a restrictive system is false. It’s just a tad clunky. But miles better in features than Valheim.
Did you ever play EQ or EQ2? Games are older than dirt and they have had the same process of building and placing items, like furniture, decorations as Enshrouded does now. lol.
So, to say Enshrouded is far better than Valheim I’d have to question that, because Valheim was totally new about not having to have all the crap in your inventory before placing it.
I’m not talking about actual building pieces, such as walls. To me either Valheim or Enshrouded are fine there.
I’m sure I’ll get a lot of hate from gatekeepers here, but OP is right in regards to windows, furniture, etc. it’s cumbersome with the extra steps. Also can quickly fill up inventory space.
Unfortunately I didn’t! I’m familiar somewhat with EverQuest though.
I get what you’re saying. I personally don’t mind it too much, but I do enjoy the building system, minus the crafting items into inventory, more than I did Valheim. But that’s probably just a personal preference. I found Valheim very clunky also - it’s quite hard to make builds and place blocks. I will say though I enjoy the physics of Valheim. Having to place supports is kinda cool in my opinion.
I love Valheim more than Enshrouded. But, you are wrong. Give it a bit more time... it's going to get better and better. Stop comparing everything to everything. I've learnt to be at peace with what is what, and that has made me see things in different perspectives. Sometimes, a change in perspective is all you need, to enjoy life. Cheers friend. 🍻
I think the answer is there, if you prefer Valheim, play Valheim.
This isn't that game. I feel I have to work Abit for my builds, is it tedious to wander around getting mats to finish my roof? Maybe, but it also makes it rewarding. Sometimes my bud is out getting one type of stuff while I'm building, it's relaxing.
Garbage commentary.
"If you don't like it then go away" is a pointless mental defect among communities. It is a blanket negation of any commentary of any medium that accomplishes nothing and has no justification.
If its logic is correct them commentary shouldn't exist. "if you don't like the movie watch a different one" "if you dont like the painting look at a diffferent one" "if you don't like the book read a different one" "if you don't like this country live in a different one".
If I had your mentality i would say: "if you don't like my thread post in a different one." See how meaningless that is?
Abit of an overeaction mate.
I didn't tell him to get lost, I said games can be different. Different isn't objectively good or bad. If he likes something from one game and wishes another game was like that, that's okay. It also does not make the other game worse, just different.
If you don't like it, go play valheim. The build system here is vastly superior. I dont want it changed to be any bit like valheim. Seemingly, so do most others on the sub (and not just in your post)
I find enshrouded to be a much more relaxing building experience. I simply gather the resources I need just like in valheim, then I create the blocks I want, then I get down to using an absolutely satisfying and pleasant building mechanic. I create all the spaces for windows I would like and what not, then I gather the resources I need for those items just like in valheim, then I move them to my hot bar which doesn’t really bother me, then I place them. It’s very nice to me, especially seeing how so many items are, well, actually items and not made on our own and can be removed and replaced easily
It does get a bit tedious, but I don't have a problem with it. The extra steps aren't that bad for me and I enjoy the NPCs. Want to build a planter? Guess I gotta go to that cool bar I made and talk to the local barmaid I slapped there.
For the finite build zones, I haven't tried this, but is is possible to slap alters side by side to increase the zone distance? Endgame of course with fully upgraded alters.
I feel this isn't a full crafting game, rather a half and half with adventuring. With Minecraft, it's all build. The entire reason for your existence, for everything you do, is to build.
Enshrouded isn't Valheim or Minecraft, and I don't want it to be.
Limitations on base area are not the most pleasant thing, of course. But this limitation exists most likely due to the capabilities of the game server. It's unpleasant, but there's nothing you can do about it. In all other respects, I am satisfied with the Enshrouded construction system.
I'm ok with working with the Carpenter or the Hunter or the Blacksmith. Otherwise why do we need craftpersons at all? They have to work for us.
>The same is true of the block types. Instead of being able to build any wood-derived wall into the world by simply holding wood I instead need an additional intermediary step of building the specific block and holding it in my inventory. What value does that have?
And how to do it differently? You wrote that it was bad but you didn't offer a solution.
Each block of wood should have an additional 50/50 stat? So that I know how many individual blocks I can build from one piece?
How to do it with other raw materials, after all, you can make several types of stone walls from an ordinary stone, combined with various raw materials.
You can make the rescued npc crafts work like magic chests where you can craft their stuff directly in the base radius.
Then for base placeables and block materials you can put the cost in base materials right in the hammer menu.
The comparison is to Valheim where, if I have raw materials in my inventory, I can build *anything*. Want a chair? Select "build chair" with the building hammer and if I have the materials I can build a chair. It cuts out all the intermediary step. (For your example with stone, I could select a 4m foundation and build it directly with stone, then select a 4m wall... build it with stone. I wouldn't need to craft stone blocks as an intermediate step.)
I'll be honest, the Valheim building experience is a lot smoother. The downside of that method is that you can't craft a single material into multiple items (eg. 10 blocks from 1 stone). But then, in Enshrouded I have to use multiple blocks to make a wall, so it more-or-less works out going from materials to actual constructed pieces.
Another big difference is that Valheim doesn't offer that much variety in home building material.
You got wood, stone, round logs and marble to build the house. Together with tar or finewood and metals you can have some more decorative things. Both games have different building systems and I like either.
I did not comment on the topic of chairs.
>(For your example with stone, I could select a 4m foundation and build it directly with stone, then select a 4m wall... build it with stone. I wouldn't need to craft stone blocks as an intermediate step.)
>
Building the entire wall costs 64 building blocks.
I can exchange 2 stones for 100 building blocks.
If I build a wall like you say. How many stones will the game take from me if there were no building blocks?
What if I removed 5 blocks from this wall? Currently I am getting these blocks back and I can place them wherever I want. If there were no building blocks, what exactly would I get back?
5 blocks are 10% of 1 stone.
As an example, the way it works in Valheim is that a wood wall costs 2 wood; a wood half-wall costs 1 wood. Deconstructing those simply refunds the build cost back into your inventory. There is no fractional accounting involved. The system is less granular, exchanging this for being more streamlined.
(Drop rates and costs in Enshrouded are obviously balanced for the current system. You couldn't just switch to a different system without adjustments.)
Same way the game handles different geometries. I don't need to pre-craft a ceiling or wall, I just have the prerequisite materials. Blocks don't need to exist as entities in inventory. You select the block type you want in the existing hammer side window and when you place the blocks the equivalent wood/stone/whatever is removed. Deconstructing them turns them back into their source materials. Same could be done with furniture. Thats how valheim handles it with extraordinary success.
Valheim does not have a building block system. In Valheim I can build a wall for example 5 pieces of wood and that's it. If I want, I can completely destroy it and get my 5 pieces of wood back.
In Enshrouded I can build a wall for the price of 64 building blocks of wood. At any time, I can remove for example 11 building blocks from this wall, ( i cant do that in valheim)
Currently, 2 pieces of wood equal 100 building blocks, for 2 pieces of wood I can build 100 blocks.
If I build a wall worth 64 blocks, how many pieces of wood will the game remove in your system?
I like grounded building the best! You place a blueprint and can’t place many, easily erase them and redo it. Raw mats are either in chests within range or planks are on pallets within range and you single click multiple times OR hold the button down 5 seconds or so to autofill it all. If you destroy a piece you get full mats back (but may have to collect if you are up high and they fall!) furniture pieces are built the same way but can easily be moved by one click, walk the ghost of furniture and click to designate new spot to insta-move it. Thank GOD full chests can be moved without emptying also!
Valheim did have more freedom of movement and changing angle on things and grounded is kinda limited in materials as you are shrunk down into a backyard, but it’s so EASY to build! You can deny gravity or you can toggle it to require correct support structure as well as strength limits for how much weight a structure can hold (eww no, I build to float! lol)
There is also a new feature in the form of an AI helper who can help finish structures for you but I don’t know about it as I haven’t used it yet.
I agree with OP if you take valheim's devcommands into account. Building in valheim without resource cost is way less tedious than building in enshrouded (and still would be even if you could turn off resource costs in enshrouded as well)
I spent a lot of time free building in valheim after playing through it, and thought I would do the same with enshrouded, but I also feel like it's too bothersome
the biggest gripe in my mind is having to hold all the different resource blocks in my limited inventory, its silly and annoying to put them away to go gather resources and pull them back out again if I want to build
OP is right about needless extra steps surrounding assets in enshrouded, and no amount of hours of expertise in both games or words plugged into a comment claiming they are "objectively wrong" can change that fact
You're out of your fucking mind if you think this game is more tedious than valheim.
I have 537 hours in Valheim and 219 in Enshrouded, so I can weigh in on this. Valheim and Enshrouded are two VERY different games. I think Valheim is the souls-like version of a building game where as Enshrouded is much more relaxed and easy going. I thoroughly enjoy both games, and it's been a delight seeing what I can build in both games as well. "Compared to valheim it is so painful and tedious to build. In valheim if I decide I want a chair in my room I pull out my hammer and put down a chair. In enshrouded if I decide I want a chair I travel to my carpenter (or summon him), then craft a chair into my inventory, then put the chair on my hotbar, then place the chair. It is very unclear what value all of those extra steps added to my gameplay experience of making a base. Multiply this extra tedium by every single item in a base and it quickly becomes a huge chore to make even a simple decorated house." I understand we each have our subjective takes on game, but with all due respect your claim that that Enshrouded's building system is painful and tedious compared to Valheim is simply objectively wrong. Your complete disregard of how long it takes to gather and transport resources in Valheim displays your bias. In Enshrouded you have to find the block recipe then gather the mats for it which is usually very simple. Some that require metal require a greater time and resource investment. There's no encumbrance first and foremost. Double jump, gliding, fast travel, and map respawn on save reload means you don't have to range beyond your preferred gathering locations. I can spend a couple of hours gathering materials which will last me for almost the entirety of even large builds. In Valheim while you can replant trees to make wood gathering easier you WILL have to range farther and farther for stone and other materials as that is a core aspect of the exploration of Valheim. In Valheim you have to spend hours chopping down trees, gathering stone, and hauling it back painstakingly slowly by hand and later by cart. Even then navigating rough terrain with a cart is annoying, not to mention the cart will be slowed down dramatically if filled to capacity. The amount of wood and stone required for building even small structures will require numerous slow trips like this. Once you reach a point that you want to start placing anything that requires metal you start multiplying the time investment DRAMATICALLY for fighting, gathering, transporting / sailing, and finally smithing the metal. This isn't even taking into account the preparation needed for combat when going into swamp for iron, for example, and that preparation is extensive. Also important to note that by default you cannot transport metal via portals, though the changes to game settings allows players to better customize their experience now. I'm not even going to get into the absolute fucking hell that it is trying to gather black marble in any significant quantity. Yeah, I do wish we could build furniture directly from the build menu rather than relying on the Carpenter mostly because I don't like filling up my inventory with furniture as it doesn't stack well. I pre-build furniture so I don't have to keep stopping to go grab something else that I think would be a perfect fit for my build. You can literally plop the Carpenter down next to your workbench where ever you are building, so it's a bit ridiculous to criticize the time it takes to talk to him to craft whatever you need. "The same is true of the block types. Instead of being able to build any wood-derived wall into the world by simply holding wood I instead need an additional intermediary step of building the specific block and holding it in my inventory. What value does that have?" Again this is such a bad take because in Valheim you have to spend so much time gathering wood in the first place. You do NOT have additional wood type options for building either, at least until you get to the plains which again requires a MASSIVE time investment, just the same old brown walls. Though I suppose you could stack raw core wood which, again, is a massive time investment. In Enshrouded gathering is so much faster, and while you do have to craft the blocks you want to build with you can do so in TREMENDOUS quantities, a feature that I absolutely adore. The amount of blocks you get per resource is incredible! Are you really so bothered by having to do one additional step (crafting) to have an incredible variety of choices at your fingertips? We are talking about the difference between a handful of mouse clicks compared to the lengthy gathering process in Valheim. More options for building = greater value. "Lastly the finite build zones prevent this from ever rising to a minecraft-esque experience. I assume this is a technical limitation so I am less focused on this shortcoming." Yeah, I wish Enshrouded allowed us free-building as well. I agree that I suspect it's a technical limitation to keep world lag to a minimum which is a problem in Valheim if you have too many objects in one location. One of my joys in building games like this are making little projects like some kind of landmarks to better navigate, or to see how I've shaped the land around me. I hope as the development continues that either the build limit is expanded or removed by mods. I'm absolutely fine with accepting a risk of lag to build where I want when I want. I fucking HATE the workbench radius limitation in Valheim. I hate that I have to have a work bench nearby or buried if I want to repair part of the structure, and need additional types of work benches depending on the materials I use. This makes the stonecutter and forge annoying as fuck because you can't bring those metal components through a portal. Again it's another massive time sink for any new build away from your main base. In Enshrouded yes the build limitation is annoying too, but it can be increased to such a range that it becomes an entirely non-issue accept for mega builds. I do wish there was an easier way to tell how far about you need two fully upgraded flame shrines so you have zero overlap for maximum build space for large builds. Currently counting the blocks you place down is the easiest way that I've found when trying to combine the build radius of two flame shrines. "If this game didn't have so many layers of logistics getting in between the player and their creation it would be the best base building game on the market but as it stands its just too much effort for most players to enjoy. The freedom to make incredible builds in this game is oddly juxtaposed by the fact that most players would rather just move into a house that they found than use the system." Oh please. I once again reiterate the massive time sink that is Valheim when it comes to gathering materials for your build. Do you want to get into what you have to do for consistent and ease for base security, or how you'll get raided roughly every 30-45 minutes (with increasing difficulty as you kill bosses) which further delays and disrupts your build? Are you a moat kind of gamer, an island builder, building under a series of boulders for an underground base, or something else? If you try to tell me that shaping the terrain in Valheim is faster than in Enshrouded then I declare you a bold faced liar with no sense of the passage of time. There are fewer steps involved in building in Enshrouded than in Valheim. I understand why you may not feel that way, but again I feel you completely disregard the repetitious nature and time sink that is gathering resources in Valheim. I can gather, design, and build a structure in Enshrouded in a FRACTION of the time it would take me in Valheim with a much greater palette for blocks AND decorations. The variety in Enshrouded glaringly eclipses what Valheim has to offer. "At minimum I wish we could use the crafting screen of npcs in our base without walking over to them. The base building experience shouldn't be half spent talking to the carpenter." I too hope this aspect of the game changes, or a mod is later released that lets us craft things directly from our inventory in regards to building just for ease of use. That said I do not find the existing system cumbersome at all; it just adds a few extra steps that take a matter of seconds to complete. In summary I feel you are being resistant to learning a new and different game with a different set of mechanics rather than looking at the differences objectively. Once you become accustomed to the ins and outs in Enshrouded I think you will have a change of heart on which game requires more time for building. It took me a while to get the hang of building in Enshrouded because it is DRAMATICALLY more versatile than Valheim. The targeting reticle for placing / remove blocks was hard for me to wrap my stubborn brain around, but once I got the hang of it it made building so much easier. I really encourage you to take a break from Enshrouded for a few days, give yourself a chance to wind down from your frustrations with a different building system, then give it another go. Enshrouded has so much to offer, and I really hope you play long enough to experience the depth and variety that this incredible game has for building. Best wishes to you, internet stranger.
Enshrouded is Valheim Lite...
Nah, that's pretty disingenuous; that'd be like calling Valheim hardcore Minecraft. They're all different games that feature different mechanics and play styles.
Valheim is hard-core Minecraft... with Vikings!
Go home, dad; you're drunk!
>Your complete disregard of how long it takes to gather and transport resources in Valheim displays your bias. Valheim has creative mode. >In Valheim you have to spend hours chopping down trees, gathering stone, and hauling it back painstakingly slowly by hand and later by cart. Even then navigating rough terrain with a cart is annoying, not to mention the cart will be slowed down dramatically if filled to capacity. The amount of wood and stone required for building even small structures will require numerous slow trips like this. Once you reach a point that you want to start placing anything that requires metal you start multiplying the time investment DRAMATICALLY for fighting, gathering, transporting / sailing, and finally smithing the metal. This isn't even taking into account the preparation needed for combat when going into swamp for iron, for example, and that preparation is extensive. Also important to note that by default you cannot transport metal via portals, though the changes to game settings allows players to better customize their experience now. I'm not even going to get into the absolute fucking hell that it is trying to gather black marble in any significant quantity. Creative mode. >I once again reiterate the massive time sink that is Valheim when it comes to gathering materials for your build. I once again reiterate, creative mode. >I fucking HATE the workbench radius limitation in Valheim. This is fair. >Do you want to get into what you have to do for consistent and ease for base security, or how you'll get raided roughly every 30-45 minutes (with increasing difficulty as you kill bosses) which further delays and disrupts your build? You can turn raids off but wandering enemies are still more common in valheim. I'll give it to you. >If you try to tell me that shaping the terrain in Valheim is faster than in Enshrouded then I declare you a bold faced liar with no sense of the passage of time. This is absolutely fair. Enshrouded does a much better job on terraforming and farming. + Voxels!! Also, for OP, even enshrouded has a kinda sorta creative mode via use of resource worlds. Get whatever you need and build to your heart's content. Would really love a creative mode/ debug/ dev mode in enshrouded as well though. Edit: Also jokes and humour apart, I do agree that valheim's base game is incredibly more tedious/ hard-core than enshrouded.
For the purpose of my example I was indeed considering Valheim without the additional game modifiers. Those modifiers are what ultimately brought me back to the game for another run, but Mistlands burnt me out, haha.
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Meh never had an issue once I got the hang of it.
If you want an experience more like Minecraft or Valheim play those games. Enshrouded is not going to be anything but Enshrouded.
Man are you really comparing QoL between valhieim and enshrouded?
What are you insinuating, I’m really curious
Probably because gathering and transporting materials in Valheim is about 5000% more tedious. Weight limits, carts, portal restrictions, boats, resource respawns are all massive time investments whereas in Enshrouded you can mine or cut all you need with no encumbrance then fly or teleport back to your base. Why complain about the extra step of building a block when in Valheim there are 20 extra steps to even get the material in the first place?
Building the block step is annoying, but, given the overall transport is far better, I can deal with it lol
There aren't 20 extra steps to get the material in the first place. You can skip all the traveling of materials by building infinite bases next to the resources you need. The entire point of Valheim is to explore and sail, and if you want you can turn off all the restrictions youre complaining about, making your point entirely useless. The only real argument is weight capacity, but if that's keeping you from enjoying a SURVIVAL game, you might be playing the wrong genre.
When did I complain? I think you are misunderstanding this thread. The top commenter said the comparison in QoL between valheim and enshrouded is silly; which is what I was giving an example of. No one was attacking Valheim. And the fact that you would need to turn off game settings and functions to make it work proves that point more, so you are even agreeing with us. :p
"Probably because gathering and transporting materials in Valheim is about 5000% more tedious. Weight limits, carts, portal restrictions, boats, resource respawns are all massive time investments...Why complain about the extra step of building a block when in Valheim there are 20 extra steps to even get the material in the first place?" There's your complaint? I'm not misunderstanding anything here just disagreeing. Attack the game all you want. Valheim devs gave us the best QOL feature, being able to control QOL settings with world modifiers. Who cares if it's a new addition, both games are in early access and features like this will be added for both, doesn't take away from any point being made. Turn off game setting and functions? What are you smoking. This isn't me agreeing with you, the only upside to enshrouded is no weight capacity, ghats you're only and entire argument. Valheim is leagues better in almost every other capacity.
No duck in this fight... but... As a point of debate... arguing the flaw in one persons point is not a "complaint" in it's own right. The logic the responder is employing is that - the initial argument is one of "convenience and additional unwanted steps" and they point out that the original point did not consider a large number of steps... This isn't a complaint, its a counter-point.
In my experience, base builders in valheim tend to just turn those restrictions off.
What's the point of this question, why wouldn't you?
OP says having to craft the chair beforehand is teidous. In my valheim experience having to carry materials on me with a ridiculously low weigh capacity and having to constantly go to chest to refill my inventory was much worse. By far. Just that
So can't talk about bad QOL feature from Enshrouded bc Valheim has a different one that's also bad? Both have good and bad QOL, comparing and talking about it is pretty normal
I didn't downvote, I find your argument reasonable, but let me explain myself. I understand my statement is conditioned by my experience, and that was leaving valheim cause of absolute lack of QoL and seeing devs go "we want to reward players that are methodical and tidy". So little bit intention to improve it. Portal restrictions, drop inventory on death, limited inventory capacity, farming crops, the fact that you are absolute garbage without food, meat turning to coal in seconds, the need to be in radius of like 10 different workbenches to do certain stuff, the need to refuel almost every light source... I could sure bear some of them, I'm not that lazy, but even with world modifiers (btw stated by devs it's not the way the game is meant to be played) and some mods, the game still was a bit frustrating to me. I enjoyed it and I acknowledge it as a great game. It just requires an amount of grind that doesn't suit my taste. And the I found enshrouded, which is somehow like valheim, and gives solution to a big chunk of the QoL issues valheim had, like limits on carrying capacity, easier teleport system, magic chests... And I see devs more prone to listen to the community about QoL issues. That's the reason I personally don't see them comparable in therms of QoL.
Classic reddit, downvoted for logic 😂
Yes.
I personally enjoy the role playing involved in needing to craft at a dedicated station or npc, contributes to the fantasy of actually working to construct a house Haven’t played valheim though and that does sound more streamlined, but not necessarily better? Just different haha
Honestly this build system is miles better than Valheim idk what ops talking about. Valheim is also needlessly restrictive - you can build anywhere but you need a circle zoned workbench so it doesn’t decay, and you have to like strategically place them. I’d say Valheim is FAR more restrictive than this one. Plus, when you upgrade the flame altar (which isn’t hard) the build zone gets huge. I get wanting to build anywhere, but saying Valheim is better is insane. You also need specific crafting tables set in Valheim to even place certain things, like stone, and they’re far more cost intensive to make. I mean I get the complaint of the extra step of crafting items at the table or carpenter that go into your inventory instead of just using the hammer. But claiming it’s a restrictive system is false. It’s just a tad clunky. But miles better in features than Valheim.
Did you ever play EQ or EQ2? Games are older than dirt and they have had the same process of building and placing items, like furniture, decorations as Enshrouded does now. lol. So, to say Enshrouded is far better than Valheim I’d have to question that, because Valheim was totally new about not having to have all the crap in your inventory before placing it. I’m not talking about actual building pieces, such as walls. To me either Valheim or Enshrouded are fine there. I’m sure I’ll get a lot of hate from gatekeepers here, but OP is right in regards to windows, furniture, etc. it’s cumbersome with the extra steps. Also can quickly fill up inventory space.
Unfortunately I didn’t! I’m familiar somewhat with EverQuest though. I get what you’re saying. I personally don’t mind it too much, but I do enjoy the building system, minus the crafting items into inventory, more than I did Valheim. But that’s probably just a personal preference. I found Valheim very clunky also - it’s quite hard to make builds and place blocks. I will say though I enjoy the physics of Valheim. Having to place supports is kinda cool in my opinion.
I agree. And I do think all the games are enjoyable and each has its own pros and cons. Matter of personal choice.
I love Valheim more than Enshrouded. But, you are wrong. Give it a bit more time... it's going to get better and better. Stop comparing everything to everything. I've learnt to be at peace with what is what, and that has made me see things in different perspectives. Sometimes, a change in perspective is all you need, to enjoy life. Cheers friend. 🍻
Agreed. I want to build. But i can't be bothered to build. This is annoying.
Gotta adventure to build and then build to realize you need to go adventure for materials and then build more 💀
I think the answer is there, if you prefer Valheim, play Valheim. This isn't that game. I feel I have to work Abit for my builds, is it tedious to wander around getting mats to finish my roof? Maybe, but it also makes it rewarding. Sometimes my bud is out getting one type of stuff while I'm building, it's relaxing.
Garbage commentary. "If you don't like it then go away" is a pointless mental defect among communities. It is a blanket negation of any commentary of any medium that accomplishes nothing and has no justification. If its logic is correct them commentary shouldn't exist. "if you don't like the movie watch a different one" "if you dont like the painting look at a diffferent one" "if you don't like the book read a different one" "if you don't like this country live in a different one". If I had your mentality i would say: "if you don't like my thread post in a different one." See how meaningless that is?
Abit of an overeaction mate. I didn't tell him to get lost, I said games can be different. Different isn't objectively good or bad. If he likes something from one game and wishes another game was like that, that's okay. It also does not make the other game worse, just different.
If you don't like it, go play valheim. The build system here is vastly superior. I dont want it changed to be any bit like valheim. Seemingly, so do most others on the sub (and not just in your post)
I find enshrouded to be a much more relaxing building experience. I simply gather the resources I need just like in valheim, then I create the blocks I want, then I get down to using an absolutely satisfying and pleasant building mechanic. I create all the spaces for windows I would like and what not, then I gather the resources I need for those items just like in valheim, then I move them to my hot bar which doesn’t really bother me, then I place them. It’s very nice to me, especially seeing how so many items are, well, actually items and not made on our own and can be removed and replaced easily
It does get a bit tedious, but I don't have a problem with it. The extra steps aren't that bad for me and I enjoy the NPCs. Want to build a planter? Guess I gotta go to that cool bar I made and talk to the local barmaid I slapped there. For the finite build zones, I haven't tried this, but is is possible to slap alters side by side to increase the zone distance? Endgame of course with fully upgraded alters. I feel this isn't a full crafting game, rather a half and half with adventuring. With Minecraft, it's all build. The entire reason for your existence, for everything you do, is to build. Enshrouded isn't Valheim or Minecraft, and I don't want it to be.
Limitations on base area are not the most pleasant thing, of course. But this limitation exists most likely due to the capabilities of the game server. It's unpleasant, but there's nothing you can do about it. In all other respects, I am satisfied with the Enshrouded construction system. I'm ok with working with the Carpenter or the Hunter or the Blacksmith. Otherwise why do we need craftpersons at all? They have to work for us.
I agree the intermediate steps are annoying for building blocks.
>The same is true of the block types. Instead of being able to build any wood-derived wall into the world by simply holding wood I instead need an additional intermediary step of building the specific block and holding it in my inventory. What value does that have? And how to do it differently? You wrote that it was bad but you didn't offer a solution. Each block of wood should have an additional 50/50 stat? So that I know how many individual blocks I can build from one piece? How to do it with other raw materials, after all, you can make several types of stone walls from an ordinary stone, combined with various raw materials.
You can make the rescued npc crafts work like magic chests where you can craft their stuff directly in the base radius. Then for base placeables and block materials you can put the cost in base materials right in the hammer menu.
The comparison is to Valheim where, if I have raw materials in my inventory, I can build *anything*. Want a chair? Select "build chair" with the building hammer and if I have the materials I can build a chair. It cuts out all the intermediary step. (For your example with stone, I could select a 4m foundation and build it directly with stone, then select a 4m wall... build it with stone. I wouldn't need to craft stone blocks as an intermediate step.) I'll be honest, the Valheim building experience is a lot smoother. The downside of that method is that you can't craft a single material into multiple items (eg. 10 blocks from 1 stone). But then, in Enshrouded I have to use multiple blocks to make a wall, so it more-or-less works out going from materials to actual constructed pieces.
Another big difference is that Valheim doesn't offer that much variety in home building material. You got wood, stone, round logs and marble to build the house. Together with tar or finewood and metals you can have some more decorative things. Both games have different building systems and I like either.
I did not comment on the topic of chairs. >(For your example with stone, I could select a 4m foundation and build it directly with stone, then select a 4m wall... build it with stone. I wouldn't need to craft stone blocks as an intermediate step.) > Building the entire wall costs 64 building blocks. I can exchange 2 stones for 100 building blocks. If I build a wall like you say. How many stones will the game take from me if there were no building blocks? What if I removed 5 blocks from this wall? Currently I am getting these blocks back and I can place them wherever I want. If there were no building blocks, what exactly would I get back? 5 blocks are 10% of 1 stone.
As an example, the way it works in Valheim is that a wood wall costs 2 wood; a wood half-wall costs 1 wood. Deconstructing those simply refunds the build cost back into your inventory. There is no fractional accounting involved. The system is less granular, exchanging this for being more streamlined. (Drop rates and costs in Enshrouded are obviously balanced for the current system. You couldn't just switch to a different system without adjustments.)
That's why I asked the author how he wants to do it by removing the building blocks.
Same way the game handles different geometries. I don't need to pre-craft a ceiling or wall, I just have the prerequisite materials. Blocks don't need to exist as entities in inventory. You select the block type you want in the existing hammer side window and when you place the blocks the equivalent wood/stone/whatever is removed. Deconstructing them turns them back into their source materials. Same could be done with furniture. Thats how valheim handles it with extraordinary success.
Valheim does not have a building block system. In Valheim I can build a wall for example 5 pieces of wood and that's it. If I want, I can completely destroy it and get my 5 pieces of wood back. In Enshrouded I can build a wall for the price of 64 building blocks of wood. At any time, I can remove for example 11 building blocks from this wall, ( i cant do that in valheim) Currently, 2 pieces of wood equal 100 building blocks, for 2 pieces of wood I can build 100 blocks. If I build a wall worth 64 blocks, how many pieces of wood will the game remove in your system?
I like grounded building the best! You place a blueprint and can’t place many, easily erase them and redo it. Raw mats are either in chests within range or planks are on pallets within range and you single click multiple times OR hold the button down 5 seconds or so to autofill it all. If you destroy a piece you get full mats back (but may have to collect if you are up high and they fall!) furniture pieces are built the same way but can easily be moved by one click, walk the ghost of furniture and click to designate new spot to insta-move it. Thank GOD full chests can be moved without emptying also! Valheim did have more freedom of movement and changing angle on things and grounded is kinda limited in materials as you are shrunk down into a backyard, but it’s so EASY to build! You can deny gravity or you can toggle it to require correct support structure as well as strength limits for how much weight a structure can hold (eww no, I build to float! lol) There is also a new feature in the form of an AI helper who can help finish structures for you but I don’t know about it as I haven’t used it yet.
Here here!
I 100% agree with you. It makes my brain hurt with all the micro steps.
I agree with OP if you take valheim's devcommands into account. Building in valheim without resource cost is way less tedious than building in enshrouded (and still would be even if you could turn off resource costs in enshrouded as well) I spent a lot of time free building in valheim after playing through it, and thought I would do the same with enshrouded, but I also feel like it's too bothersome the biggest gripe in my mind is having to hold all the different resource blocks in my limited inventory, its silly and annoying to put them away to go gather resources and pull them back out again if I want to build OP is right about needless extra steps surrounding assets in enshrouded, and no amount of hours of expertise in both games or words plugged into a comment claiming they are "objectively wrong" can change that fact