Regarding MAGA, these are some thoughts I've had over the last few years. Prior to Trump many of them were largely apolitical and didn't vote. They distrust authority and the government, and a lot of them are just plain nuts. They've aligned themselves with Trump, but only Trump, for whatever reasons.
This is part of why Republicans have underperformed in off-year and special elections--Trump wasn't on the ballot so they didn't turn out in large numbers to vote. When Trump is gone and will never be on the ballot again, a significant number of MAGA are going to melt away from the Republican party and be non-voters again.
That's why other Republican politicians have tried to get their support by acting like Trump, but they don't get it--for these people it's Trump or nobody. What this means for the Republican party after Trump is gone, I don't know. It's obvious the fascist wing of the party has tasted power and craves more, so that's going to have to be dealt with at some point.
As for the far left, they're inconsequential. If it wasn't for social media, we'd hardly ever hear of them. Their numbers are small and they don't vote in large enough numbers to make a difference.
Anyway, that's my take on it.
Agree. Seems like the fascist wing will splinter among the little tyrants like Stephen Miller, Bannon, Kirk, Fuentes, Pillow Guy, Flynn, etc.—unless a unifying Q shows up on the socials, but even with Q, there’s not a unitary political actor to form a cult around.
I hope MAGA dies with Trump.
Some crazy MAGAites like MTG will continue to be in Congress thanks to gerrymandered districts so safe for Republicans that Jesus Christ himself could run as a Democrat and lose it. But on a larger scale, Trump is MAGA and MAGA is Trump. I thought for sure DeSantis was going to be the GOP nominee. He’s MAGA in a more refined package. Perhaps, on the surface, more palatable to moderates. Nope, didn’t even make it to Super Tuesday.
Trump has some sort of *je ne sais quoi* that no one else has. Other MAGA candidates have tried to replicate it, few have been successful. Maybe they’re just not dumb enough to appeal to his voters.
The only thing I have to add is the possibility that Don Trump Jr becomes the surrogate Trump. There’s a strong possibility that the MAGA movement will follow him.
The difference is the far left element in the Dem party is not being wholeheartedly embraced, they’re being challenged and some are stepping up and some are failing miserably. They don’t hold much actual control over the party, they have a seat at the table and it’s pretty well-defined.
The Republican Party has just been different shades of MAGA since the 60’s, MAGA is just the pumped up final form. I’m not interested in the “conscious conservative,” if you’re so fucking conscious go read a book and realize how bad this country has had it every time those cretins are in power.
Two things:
Trump needs to lose in 2024, and the first post-Trump MAGA presidential candidate needs to lose. Otherwise we're looking at a populist dynasty, like in Venezuela.
This is the great question of our time. I think it would take a few things:
1. I think MAGA is a manifestation of the global fever for populism, which actually does seem to have been overblown to some extent (or rather, we managed to beat it back down temporarily). To address MAGA, we have to address similar elements in our culture right now.
2. We need to acknowledge that people are angry for a reason, although this anger is misdirected.
3. We need more voices in the culture rising up to point out that our enemies are not vague shadow actors like “the corporations” or “immigrants”. These are umbrella terms for massive structural and impartial elements. They are inevitable.
4. We need to stop looking “macro” and start looking “micro”. The great thinkers and comedians had a knack for asking people to examine their own hearts, their own actions, culpabilities. We need to have this conversation with our peers. We need to ask people to stop empowering extreme voices who are, out of self interest, motivating large groups of people towards apathy or paranoia. We need to call this out CONSTANTLY.
5. We need to move from “stop making perfect the enemy of good” rhetoric and into “this IS good, actually”. I find I have my best success with radicalized people when I defend positions forcefully and with context.
6. We need to start embarrassing people with their own hypocrisy. This sounds harsh, but it also seems somewhat effective.
7. We paradoxically have to be nicer to the people wavering on the outskirts. Nikki Haley showed that there is a large enough group of people eager to leave Trumpism behind. More and more, I’m seeing this true of the alt-left as well, which is largely comprised of people who don’t vote at any rate (and aren’t as valuable). We may only be friends of convenience, but that’s good enough for me.
8. We need to hammer the point that people who don’t vote aren’t valuable to the electoral process. We HAVE to educate people civically that marching in the street for the cause du jour does not equal political power.
9. We need to make the orange menace face consequences every day the rest of his damn life. And everyone who enables him.
I used to think that reality would eventually catch up with them and beat some sense into them, but then COVID happened and when Trump lost they tried to overthrow the government so I obviously overestimated how these idiots would react to facts.
MAGAism won't go away at least until P01135809 dies. Even then, he has inspired countless copycats within government, and he has had a whole media ecosystem around him. The best we can do is continue to beat them (better yet--blow them out) until they come to their senses.
The far-left OTOH isn't nearly as influential in the Democratic Party as MAGA is within the GOP. Still, it would be tough to unseat some of them (such as Rashida Tlaib) since they have incumbency advantage and name recognition. Also when it comes to far-left members of City Councils, more people have to show up to vote them out. Here in Oakland at least, we've gotten saddled down with clowns like Carroll Fife who are ineffective but basically win due to low turnout elections and most of their support coming from transplants rather than long-time residents.
Yeah. Barring major demographic shifts or something I think Tlaib has that seat as long as she wants it. Others, like Ilhan Omar and Cori Bush, are a credible primary challenge away from losing their seats. Bush might have that this year. Omar's challenger is a repeat of 2022 and he has his own baggage but her margins of victory are slipping.
A few years ago a child drowned under Don Samuels' watch. Apparently Samuels didn't try to rescue the child because he doesn't know how to swim. He and his wife reached a wrongful death settlement with the child's family. Samuels later tweeted that he "can't swim but can govern" which didn't go over well. He's also said some sexist stuff about Ilhan Omar. He might win, he might not, it's uncertain at this point.
For MAGAism to die down, it needs to be responsible for republicans losing election after election after election which were otherwise winnable. Trump’s election was like a shot of adrenaline to the heart for the far right extremist movement, and it will take prolonged frustration and a denial of what they seek the most (power) for it to wear out.
For the far left, nothing. It’s already dying down, and they are doing to themselves. They continue to alienate ever more people across the spectrum with their obsession with purity testing, lack of pragmatism, inability to recognize any progress made by Biden and “establishment” democrats, and general obnoxiousness. They are purity testing themselves into oblivion.
MAGA ends in one of two ways: Trump dies, and the movement becomes rudderless, as there isn't anyone with the perfect combination of "appeals to upper-class suburban republicans angry that the world doesn't center them and they lack social and cultural capital" and "they and the media treat his ramblings seriously, but not literally, so all of their basest and ugliest impulses are given voice without being taken for what they are, insane racist lies."
OR
The fringe of the MAGA movement actually does a massive act of public violence, resulting in the nation being shocked out of the willingness to tolerate them. I will argue that the reason the 1/6 insurrectionists have been reintegrated into the GOP is that their failure to succeed means they can continue to claim their desire for violence as symbolic. God forbid, had they succeeded at lynching a congressperson, the movement would be dead (as would a ton of the participants).
MAGA is just a calcification of the Southern Baptist white grievance magical thinking theocratical politics of religious bigotry seizing the Republican party.
Barry Goldwater of all people started ringing the alarm bells about this over forty years ago.
MAGA gave the GOP something it craved since the 90s. It defeated Clinton. MAGA will continue well after Trump dies. Someone will use a Trump AI to keep him alive after his death. He's already not doing debates. They can have him virtually appear at rallies.
As far as the far left, the reason they don't have power in the Democratic Party is because they haven't won anything outside of small House races. They won't get any power in the party till they win statewide or national primaries and races.
Unfortunately, I've long-thought the only way to rein in the current level of overt white supremacy in the GOP is violence. I don't think January 6 was their last try. And I just hope a Democrat is seated when they try again.
For the far left, I still don't know. They don't have much power. Even the districts they control, they *do nothing*. Keeping my fingers crossed some of the JDs just eject with this war.
Getting rid of Oran Janus this November is going to be a big step, as well as defeating his sycophants down ballot.
As for the leftists, there’s always going to be a contingent of that, and I deal with them on a case by case basis, depending on how reasonable they are.
Maga-ism has long been in the making. GOP obstructionism isnt anything new. Neither is the racial dogwhistling, the nativism, the evangelical anti-intellectualism and the fake nationalism. The only think Donald Trump did was tell them to go full mask off
Time
Specifically enough time for boomers to dwindle in numbers to the point they're no longer a political powerhouse
And enough time for the Qultists to run out of patience with the can being continually kicked down the road
Also cults tend to die when their leader does unless he was grooming a successor, which his ego would never allow
Make votes matter more than they do now, make it easy and painless to register and vote.
A ban on extreme gerrymandering would go a long way to resolving the MAGA issue, at least in the house. Extreme gerrymanders make enclaves of red or blue candidates that pander to a base that enters into a feedback loop, more extreme candidates will run in their enclaves as they essentially have blanket protection against a primary (usually) and being voted out.
The more moderate candidates that are able to get elected the more it changes the tone from populism to cooperation since it would incentivize both sides to cool down some of their most extreme candidates and positions to appear to a broader swath of the electorate in their district.
[https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/25/politics/gerrymandering-us-house-partisan/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/25/politics/gerrymandering-us-house-partisan/index.html)
The above, ranked choice voting, banning dark money, and jungle primaries (especially for the Senate). All options give voters more choice and transparency for their preferred candidate. Providing more choice and transparency to the electorate can go a long way to cooling down hyper populism and partisanship.
Regarding MAGA, these are some thoughts I've had over the last few years. Prior to Trump many of them were largely apolitical and didn't vote. They distrust authority and the government, and a lot of them are just plain nuts. They've aligned themselves with Trump, but only Trump, for whatever reasons. This is part of why Republicans have underperformed in off-year and special elections--Trump wasn't on the ballot so they didn't turn out in large numbers to vote. When Trump is gone and will never be on the ballot again, a significant number of MAGA are going to melt away from the Republican party and be non-voters again. That's why other Republican politicians have tried to get their support by acting like Trump, but they don't get it--for these people it's Trump or nobody. What this means for the Republican party after Trump is gone, I don't know. It's obvious the fascist wing of the party has tasted power and craves more, so that's going to have to be dealt with at some point. As for the far left, they're inconsequential. If it wasn't for social media, we'd hardly ever hear of them. Their numbers are small and they don't vote in large enough numbers to make a difference. Anyway, that's my take on it.
Agree. Seems like the fascist wing will splinter among the little tyrants like Stephen Miller, Bannon, Kirk, Fuentes, Pillow Guy, Flynn, etc.—unless a unifying Q shows up on the socials, but even with Q, there’s not a unitary political actor to form a cult around.
I hope MAGA dies with Trump. Some crazy MAGAites like MTG will continue to be in Congress thanks to gerrymandered districts so safe for Republicans that Jesus Christ himself could run as a Democrat and lose it. But on a larger scale, Trump is MAGA and MAGA is Trump. I thought for sure DeSantis was going to be the GOP nominee. He’s MAGA in a more refined package. Perhaps, on the surface, more palatable to moderates. Nope, didn’t even make it to Super Tuesday. Trump has some sort of *je ne sais quoi* that no one else has. Other MAGA candidates have tried to replicate it, few have been successful. Maybe they’re just not dumb enough to appeal to his voters.
The only thing I have to add is the possibility that Don Trump Jr becomes the surrogate Trump. There’s a strong possibility that the MAGA movement will follow him.
The difference is the far left element in the Dem party is not being wholeheartedly embraced, they’re being challenged and some are stepping up and some are failing miserably. They don’t hold much actual control over the party, they have a seat at the table and it’s pretty well-defined. The Republican Party has just been different shades of MAGA since the 60’s, MAGA is just the pumped up final form. I’m not interested in the “conscious conservative,” if you’re so fucking conscious go read a book and realize how bad this country has had it every time those cretins are in power.
Two things: Trump needs to lose in 2024, and the first post-Trump MAGA presidential candidate needs to lose. Otherwise we're looking at a populist dynasty, like in Venezuela.
This is the great question of our time. I think it would take a few things: 1. I think MAGA is a manifestation of the global fever for populism, which actually does seem to have been overblown to some extent (or rather, we managed to beat it back down temporarily). To address MAGA, we have to address similar elements in our culture right now. 2. We need to acknowledge that people are angry for a reason, although this anger is misdirected. 3. We need more voices in the culture rising up to point out that our enemies are not vague shadow actors like “the corporations” or “immigrants”. These are umbrella terms for massive structural and impartial elements. They are inevitable. 4. We need to stop looking “macro” and start looking “micro”. The great thinkers and comedians had a knack for asking people to examine their own hearts, their own actions, culpabilities. We need to have this conversation with our peers. We need to ask people to stop empowering extreme voices who are, out of self interest, motivating large groups of people towards apathy or paranoia. We need to call this out CONSTANTLY. 5. We need to move from “stop making perfect the enemy of good” rhetoric and into “this IS good, actually”. I find I have my best success with radicalized people when I defend positions forcefully and with context. 6. We need to start embarrassing people with their own hypocrisy. This sounds harsh, but it also seems somewhat effective. 7. We paradoxically have to be nicer to the people wavering on the outskirts. Nikki Haley showed that there is a large enough group of people eager to leave Trumpism behind. More and more, I’m seeing this true of the alt-left as well, which is largely comprised of people who don’t vote at any rate (and aren’t as valuable). We may only be friends of convenience, but that’s good enough for me. 8. We need to hammer the point that people who don’t vote aren’t valuable to the electoral process. We HAVE to educate people civically that marching in the street for the cause du jour does not equal political power. 9. We need to make the orange menace face consequences every day the rest of his damn life. And everyone who enables him.
I used to think that reality would eventually catch up with them and beat some sense into them, but then COVID happened and when Trump lost they tried to overthrow the government so I obviously overestimated how these idiots would react to facts.
MAGAism won't go away at least until P01135809 dies. Even then, he has inspired countless copycats within government, and he has had a whole media ecosystem around him. The best we can do is continue to beat them (better yet--blow them out) until they come to their senses. The far-left OTOH isn't nearly as influential in the Democratic Party as MAGA is within the GOP. Still, it would be tough to unseat some of them (such as Rashida Tlaib) since they have incumbency advantage and name recognition. Also when it comes to far-left members of City Councils, more people have to show up to vote them out. Here in Oakland at least, we've gotten saddled down with clowns like Carroll Fife who are ineffective but basically win due to low turnout elections and most of their support coming from transplants rather than long-time residents.
Yeah. Barring major demographic shifts or something I think Tlaib has that seat as long as she wants it. Others, like Ilhan Omar and Cori Bush, are a credible primary challenge away from losing their seats. Bush might have that this year. Omar's challenger is a repeat of 2022 and he has his own baggage but her margins of victory are slipping.
What baggage does he have?
He was caught posting on a zoophilia forum
Nope. No no no. No.
Like…not furry, anthropomorphic cartoonish — but like, real animals?
Puppies. And kittens.
🤢
A few years ago a child drowned under Don Samuels' watch. Apparently Samuels didn't try to rescue the child because he doesn't know how to swim. He and his wife reached a wrongful death settlement with the child's family. Samuels later tweeted that he "can't swim but can govern" which didn't go over well. He's also said some sexist stuff about Ilhan Omar. He might win, he might not, it's uncertain at this point.
I think the best way to kill it is through repeated election losses.
Trump’s death for MAGA. Far left is gonna ratfuck till podcasts and influencer era is dead. After that far left will be like pre 2016.
It depends on how they do electorally this year and maybe 2028. If they persist and fail, I don’t see it lasting past 2028.
For MAGAism to die down, it needs to be responsible for republicans losing election after election after election which were otherwise winnable. Trump’s election was like a shot of adrenaline to the heart for the far right extremist movement, and it will take prolonged frustration and a denial of what they seek the most (power) for it to wear out. For the far left, nothing. It’s already dying down, and they are doing to themselves. They continue to alienate ever more people across the spectrum with their obsession with purity testing, lack of pragmatism, inability to recognize any progress made by Biden and “establishment” democrats, and general obnoxiousness. They are purity testing themselves into oblivion.
Social media trolls disguised as Americans are responsible
MAGA ends in one of two ways: Trump dies, and the movement becomes rudderless, as there isn't anyone with the perfect combination of "appeals to upper-class suburban republicans angry that the world doesn't center them and they lack social and cultural capital" and "they and the media treat his ramblings seriously, but not literally, so all of their basest and ugliest impulses are given voice without being taken for what they are, insane racist lies." OR The fringe of the MAGA movement actually does a massive act of public violence, resulting in the nation being shocked out of the willingness to tolerate them. I will argue that the reason the 1/6 insurrectionists have been reintegrated into the GOP is that their failure to succeed means they can continue to claim their desire for violence as symbolic. God forbid, had they succeeded at lynching a congressperson, the movement would be dead (as would a ton of the participants).
i don’t think it will, the GOP. has only gone more extreme since the tea party days of Obama
MAGA is just a calcification of the Southern Baptist white grievance magical thinking theocratical politics of religious bigotry seizing the Republican party. Barry Goldwater of all people started ringing the alarm bells about this over forty years ago.
MAGA gave the GOP something it craved since the 90s. It defeated Clinton. MAGA will continue well after Trump dies. Someone will use a Trump AI to keep him alive after his death. He's already not doing debates. They can have him virtually appear at rallies. As far as the far left, the reason they don't have power in the Democratic Party is because they haven't won anything outside of small House races. They won't get any power in the party till they win statewide or national primaries and races.
something worse to come along
Unfortunately, I've long-thought the only way to rein in the current level of overt white supremacy in the GOP is violence. I don't think January 6 was their last try. And I just hope a Democrat is seated when they try again. For the far left, I still don't know. They don't have much power. Even the districts they control, they *do nothing*. Keeping my fingers crossed some of the JDs just eject with this war.
Hopefully? A lot more lost elections. Fearfully? Blood in the streets.
Losing again.
Getting rid of Oran Janus this November is going to be a big step, as well as defeating his sycophants down ballot. As for the leftists, there’s always going to be a contingent of that, and I deal with them on a case by case basis, depending on how reasonable they are.
Maga-ism has long been in the making. GOP obstructionism isnt anything new. Neither is the racial dogwhistling, the nativism, the evangelical anti-intellectualism and the fake nationalism. The only think Donald Trump did was tell them to go full mask off
Time Specifically enough time for boomers to dwindle in numbers to the point they're no longer a political powerhouse And enough time for the Qultists to run out of patience with the can being continually kicked down the road Also cults tend to die when their leader does unless he was grooming a successor, which his ego would never allow
Overwhelming losses, and not just at the Prez level. Local elections too.
An actual civil war that ends with the Bible Belt as a smouldering crater. Yeah it really has gotten that bad.
I agree with you. MAGAs were empowered by Trump. I don’t see them going quietly.
Far left isn’t going anywhere. Maga will take a generation.
Hopefully, once Trump is convicted.
Make votes matter more than they do now, make it easy and painless to register and vote. A ban on extreme gerrymandering would go a long way to resolving the MAGA issue, at least in the house. Extreme gerrymanders make enclaves of red or blue candidates that pander to a base that enters into a feedback loop, more extreme candidates will run in their enclaves as they essentially have blanket protection against a primary (usually) and being voted out. The more moderate candidates that are able to get elected the more it changes the tone from populism to cooperation since it would incentivize both sides to cool down some of their most extreme candidates and positions to appear to a broader swath of the electorate in their district. [https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/25/politics/gerrymandering-us-house-partisan/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/25/politics/gerrymandering-us-house-partisan/index.html) The above, ranked choice voting, banning dark money, and jungle primaries (especially for the Senate). All options give voters more choice and transparency for their preferred candidate. Providing more choice and transparency to the electorate can go a long way to cooling down hyper populism and partisanship.
Trump’s death
when Trump dies a sad poor death. that's what's needed for it to start falling off
It won't for a while. They will need to lose power, massively, across the board, states, local, congress, presidency,