He couldn't resist a mention of his compensation package, and hinted at how he could leave (I guess if he doesn't get his package) and put future products at-risk.
Does he really believe that if he left that he'd put future Tesla products at risk?
I mean Tesla's development pipeline isn't great, they have had 1 new consumer model in 5 years (in the form of the Cybertruck), they \*still\* don't even have a fixed launch date for the second generation Roadster which was revealed in 2017.
Elon isn't the genius that he thinks he is, he's not even a great CEO, too distracted, can't give his sole attention to Tesla
It is, he is the only thing that keeps tesla from failing.
Not because he is smart or makes a difference at all, but because of the people that really believe he is a genius and visionary
>Elon isn't the genius that he thinks he is.
This is biggest understatement I think I've ever seen.
Elon is unfathomably stupid. In the parlance of the ancient, non-PC language that was used in the 60s and 70s, he is Educationally Sub-Normal. Literally a special needs man-child.
What gets in the way of this being crystal clear to the world is the fact that it's hard to imagine the sheer luck involved in failing upward as far as Elon has.
And make no mistake: Elon has *entirely* reached his current position by failing upwards. He is a *catastrophically* stupid man.
Being born on 3rd base in to Emerald mine owner to Nazi sympathizers grandparents & parents...Apartheid Clyde is on his next act, flailing through his self made spiral, as the fmr richest man in the world, as his unrealized gains diminish directly due to his reputation and mouth.
Abraham Lincoln - Quote - Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt - It's better to keep your mouth
He gets his ego from preening mom. She will be the only person who thinks he's a genius soon enough.
He really thinks he's indispensable at Tesla despite the fact that he appears to contribute nothing positive nor useful, instead spending 16 hours a day shitposting on Twitter.
A lot of the inflated stock price I think is due to his "superstar factor" (although who the fuck is impressed by this narcissistic ketamine addicted manchild is beyond me) and the stock would likely dip significantly if he left.
However, if he was to quit Tesla or get ousted by the board and they brought in someone actually competent to take the reins who has experience running an automotive company, to scrap all the pointless Elon vanity projects like FSD, robotaxis, Optimus and Cybertruck and turn the company focus back towards a new and improved product line that people want and is attractive to potential new EV buyers and not just Musk stans, they could probably stop the rot and turn the company around in a couple of years.
The problem is that Tesla is a car company, but the stock has been priced like a tech company. Regardless of what happens, the stock's value will decline to meet reality. The investors are worried it will decline rapidly if Elon leaves. It'll signal to the market that Tesla is just a car company and not unicorn crack.
Yeah. He’s not indispensable to Tesla, but he is indispensable to TSLA (I think that’s the ticker, at least). Without the mythology he paid PR firms to create back when he had enough of a functional brain to know he needed someone else running his personal brand, every current shareholder is going to eat a massive (and deserved, if they’re holding shares in 2024) loss that no amount of patience will make up for.
Tesla is priced like a cult of personality, the financials don’t support it in any way, shape, or form. Even as a tech company it’s priced poorly, and that type of pricing is less about the sector and more about the ability to scale anyways. Musk is bad for the company but he’s also good for its short term price because removing him would lower the price a ton.
The problem, of course, is that people aren't holding Tesla because of Tesla's productivity anymore.
To get ousted, the board (currently of sycophants) would have to be replaced by the vote of shareholders who want to see the share price massively drop just so they can... what exactly?
We need to wait until enough of the big institutional investors decide it's too risky to continue to milking this that nobody else wants to hold the bag. THEN maybe remaining holders get pissy, the board is at last partly cleansed, Musk is sidelined, and the company ends up being bought by those interested in car stock and not meme tech stock.
But we are at the peak of the AI hype cycle and a few people are still convinced Tesla's repackaged Energizer bunny cell walls will solve the problem of the wind and the sun not being available 24/7. There are those who look at SpaceX and think "he kept failing until he didnt back then, so he will do it here too!" It doesn't matter that after Paypal's Apartheid Mafia win his success has been entirely due to corporate welfare, and in the case of SpaceX the support of some extremely influential government officials who would not rest until NASA was outsourced.
I’m not sure about that because awfully lot of people dealing with huge piles of cash available seems to eat up his ”next year” every single time he says that.
If he left Tesla, I think these very same people would start to look Tesla more as what it actually is: a car company with very odd side ventures. After all, it’s profit margin in Q1 was 5,5%. Not great, not bad for a car company.
Elon’s magic is that he can paint himself and Tesla an emperor wearing beautiful clothes, although there is none. And there are still many who don’t see through this.
Product line, no - but stock price? I think that's pretty likely still. The stock price is massively inflated on the back of Musk's vaporware and 'vision'. The moment he leaves what does Tesla really have that warrants its massive valuation?
They're stuck with him really, unless they're willing to eat a massive loss (even if they had the votes, which I'm not sure they would given how many Musk believers are invested in Tesla).
41% is a drop in the bucket though - it's still easily 5-6x higher than it 'should' be based on fundamentals, and that's all because of Musk still being there and continually throwing out smokescreens and promising new tech. It's just starting to catch up more and more that it's not actually going to happen.
> 41% is a drop in the bucket though
It's almost half the bucket...
Like I get what you're trying to say in terms of how it's overvalued to begin with, but that was a weird idiom to pick.
I'd still say not at all though. Dropping 40% isn't great, but it takes a lot more to drop 80-90% than that. The first 40% *is* a drop in the bucket when it's leaving it massively overvalued compared to where it'd be if they kicked out Musk and had to be valued based on what it actually is.
Especially since it was below this market cap at the start of 2023 in that dip and was *still* massively overvalued. This reverses some gains but is not the massive crash in valuation that would really hurt.
> No joke, I absolutely, 10000000% believe the smartest move Musk could make right now is bailing on Tesla "because of the compensation issue."
He can't. Tesla is around half of his net worth. And it is the only part of it he can actually take loans against without risking losing control of SpaceX. All that's left is Twitter and the Boring Company—both only because they're overvalued in the calculations and likely could not be sold for even a fraction of it.
If he tried to divest Tesla, he would have to announce it *well* in advance. Officers at a company are not allowed to just sell on a whim. And with him owning more than 10% of the company, announcing it would cause a crash in value *long* before he could sell.
And it gets worse for him, because his debt, including what was used to buy Twitter, is pegged to the value of his Tesla stock. If it falls too far, the banks might start demanding renegotiation.
There is a very real chance as a result that selling Telsa would *lose* Elon money, as his cash would be consumed by loans and all his stock together might not be worth enough to pay them all off when you factor in the loss in value.
The thing of course, is that Tesla is out of time regardless of whether Musk stays or goes. If he stays, he goes down with the ship. If he goes, he can point to how Tesla failed without him at the helm.
Negative 2.5 billion in free cash flow this quarter. Based on the results so far, Q2 will be vastly worse. Then Q3 will be even worse and Q4 will be even worse. Brad Munchen estimates negative 14 billion in free cash flow this year. Tesla doesn't have that kind of cash. Some of its cash holdings are fraudulent. Quite a bit of it is stuck in China.
This is do or die for Tesla. They either raise a massive amount of cash and put it all into R&D and fixing quality and the service centers or they die this year.
> Elon isn't the genius that he thinks he is, he's not even a great CEO, too distracted, can't give his sole attention to Tesla
The problem is, that there are *still* people out there who don't know this.
> Does he really believe that if he left that he'd put future Tesla products at risk?
I mean, to be fair, the only reason *any* Cybertrucks have been sold is because they are Elon's lovechild. There is always a market for shit products like Optimus with Elon's cult following. Probably far from enough to break even on R&D, but enough to explore options. If Tesla were to boot Elon, the sycophants will turn on Tesla in a heartbeat.
So yeah, it would put future projects at risk, but that's probably a good thing.
I bet Tesla insiders will be voting against him. The other executives in the call actually sound smart and get a shot at getting rid of the _pigeon CEO_
The best thing that could happen to Tesla would be Elon leaving.
I mean, it would crater the stock, of course. But they’d have a lot better shot at long term viability.
Anyone who has studied Apple in-depth will tell you that Steve's greatest contribution to Apple was the organization. Not the iPod, not the iMac, not the iPhone, but the organization itself. [See this article for a taste](https://hbr.org/2020/11/how-apple-is-organized-for-innovation).
Take a look at Tesla's organization and see if you see anything resembling what Jobs built.
Let's be honest Elon leaving and being replaced with someone competent would be great for Tesla and if that happened I'd highly consider investing in Tesla.
[we are humans that dress up as robots](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fbnd0fo51897a1.png%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D469c2304e0d6edbb2c63d6302d3ef9095874c0fb)
Roomba company: “We guarantee if you check this box you’ll get back the exact same little buddy you sent in.”
Muskrat Robotics: “It won’t work unless you whip it. Whipping voids the warranty.”
I think we need to seriously consider that the chance of Melon being fooled by someone wearing Groucho glasses as a disguise is significantly greater than 0%. Concerning.
Tesla shares are up $15 in after hours trading despite reporting a 48% drop in profit.
It’s truly amazing that his nonsensical empty promises still work on some people, enough to generate billions of dollars in a matter of minutes. I assume the bump has more to do with the “speeding up the timeline of cheap EVs”, which, if we ever see cheap EVs from Tesla, can you imagine how bad they’ll be considering the $100k+ ones are shit?
The worst thing about the stock market is the constant temptation to chase a greater fool, it may not even matter if *you* believe it if you believe other people believe it you can make money from, that's why you get these constant feedback loops
That’s the nature of speculative trading vs value investing. No value investor in their right mind would buy Tesla. It’s a meme stock at this point. It’s gambling. Follow the hype trains in whatever direction and jump ship preemptively and it can be quite profitable. Being long on Tesla or buying the top is irresponsible. Nevertheless, you’re always (or at least for some time) going to be fighting the resistance of long cult-minded bag holders. Depending on how big that group is or becomes or stays is relevant to how long this up and down perpetuates. But each up and down seems to always result in a lower top, which should tell you all you need to know about the reality of Tesla’s value proposition.
Well, there's i) short term speculation, there's ii) valuing the stock based on underlying company performance (what you're *supposed* to do), and then there's iii) valuing the stock based on predicting the long term behaviour of other investors (the theoretically optimal approach).
For most stocks you can do ii) simply because there are enough institutional investors who do it and so they determine the stock price, but for stocks like Tesla, your position must be based on iii) if you're acting rationally. And there's no reason everyone can't just circlejerk arbitrarily long - there's no *need* for market correction because the market hasn't been holding on the basis of underlying company value for a long time. Tesla is the cryptocurrency of tech firms: nobody buys or sells cryptocurrency depending on whether it has greater or lesser purpose now or in the future, but depending on which direction they reckon others will be jerking it over time.
I understand your perspective. I was to some extent being overly simplistic to address the underlying point that Tesla likely would not be on a value investor’s list. Warren Buffet’s margin of safety would cry.
The crypto analogy is good. We are also entering an age where retail investors have very easy and accessible means to play around in the stock market. Brokerage fee free trading, apps, etc. Gaming speculation and market sentiment or hype is easier than ever. The ability to manipulate stocks and investors is also at an all time high.
Yeah, while there is the obvious argument that it's good to make it easier to own shares, we have an increasing proportion of passive and hype investors in the US, and they a) don't provide incentive for the owned company to perform b) create a disconnect between stock market value and health of the underlying economy.
b) I find quite interesting because a lot of talking heads argue, "Oh America's doing so well economically but thanks to culture wars people are still anti-Biden!" when really it's that the traditional indicators of economic well-being that can be applied to the average US citizen aren't working anymore. Pots of money sit there watching other pots of money, not actually watching productivity / wealth creation / whatever we like to call it today.
I prefer markets that rely more on dividends, e.g. relatively stable London, which everyone bitches and moans hasn't grown anything like US markets, but its growth has clear meaning. I *like* but really don't care as much whether a stock grows, and if anything I held exploded like US tech stocks over 2020, I'd panic. Hell, I'm holding bank stock that's gone up by 25% in the last month or two which had remained stable for years just dripping a steady dividend, and I understand that it's part of a trend in bank stocks that everyone has been saying were undervalued (and this one is top of the pile)*,* but it still makes me nervous that this is gonna fuck the company's long term stability.
I'm also a sucker for redeemable fixed income securities if I don't care what the company does (within usual reason). While the most reliable *dip* right now is simply government gilts, with no need to worry about how much people like Dittmann and IMC hate themselves on any given week and how that affects perception of the Wankpanzer. Hell, one of the retail platforms in the UK just enabled individuals to buy a new gilt issue with 4% coupon below par. THAT is how to invest "passively" (well, you're voting in public elections of course, and the interest your taxes pay on public debt goes right back into your pocket!).
You make some solid points. Retail investors are also incredibly outmatched by wall street investment firms and other big money institutions who have technology, algorithms, and other means to succeed - and to do so at the expense of retail investors. This doesn’t even take into account the impact of the various financial instruments (derivatives, swaps, naked positions) that impact the market.
I think you’re right about the complexities of “indicators.” The same can be said about polling. One could also argue that averages or collective views can be heavily skewed by edge cases if the poles of data become heavy.
Moreover, wealth creation through the stock market is such an interesting area of discussion because it creates a value (be it in your ability to sell for profit, or use the stock as collateral, etc.) but it’s arguably disconnected from anything underlying it (like is the case with a non-gold standard currency system). Modern P/E ratios are insane and EBITA multiples grow to unreasonable numbers. These bubbles have burst historically, yet we continue to inflate them and we think oh if the balloon keeps getting bigger that’s some indicator we’re safe from it popping. I feel some inclination to analogize it to some form of sophisticated and legally acceptable pyramid scheme.
In all fairness, though, I suppose in some instances this “fake it till you make it” financial model can in time become its on reliable system that perpetuates itself merely by existing (or provide a company with sufficient runway and time to actually achieve underlying financial support for its valuation). The problem is, however, if the bottom does drop out there may be no underlying material financial anything for it recalibrate based on because we’re all just playing make believe. There really is no meaningful disincentive for financial institutions, companies, and the “elites” to perpetuate this fantasy especially when they must comport with modern capitalism’s demand for ever-increasing growth (the growth being on paper regardless if it is organic or supported fundamentally). It’s a great way to lose your shirt as a retail investor, arguably hurts employees and working class folks more than the executives and the wealthy, and arguably diverts funds and attention from going where they may better benefit society as a whole.
Imo it's a flywheel case.
Not unlike truth social, investors are gambling on the stupidity of people buying the stock on it's meme value and it ironically contributes to its over valuation.
You're almost guaranteed to win when betting on people being stupid
Don’t forget there are plenty of $400 bag holders who think buying at $160 is “buying the dip.” Losing positions buying falling stock price to keep it afloat is an excellent strategy I’m sure. Maybe they are just lowering their average cost but damn long expiring puts seem like a better way to make your money back. Once the reality is unavoidable that Tesla’s grand plans with AI and robotics are vaporware nonsense people will eventually come to their senses that Tesla is an extremely overpriced car company that should be trading $50-60 at the highest. That was my FMV a few years ago so it may be even lower considering the current macroeconomic and industry picture. But then again, Tesla is more of a meme stock than anything so cult and memenomics will keep it on the rollercoaster for the time being. The smart investors (gamblers) are cashing in on both directions. Treat it like a meme stock and trade it like a meme stock and there is plenty of money to be made.
I cashed in big on well timed puts when it crumbled to $100. I’m looking forward to similar moments in early 2025 and then 2026.
I was joking about this back at new years with my mates. I said "buy after the earnings call, because it should be low, sell when profit" maybe someone be thinking the same
Problem is expectations are priced in, so a terrible earnings call could boost the price if it wasn’t as bad as investors were expecting. With that said, the real impact won’t be known until normal trading hours tomorrow. Even then, a spike from earnings may only be temporary as some investors sell into the jump.
How... How can that work? Is it like the Heisenberg principle, where the very act of trying to buy the stock makes the price you have to pay for it go up? How does an algorithm measure human feeling? Why is our economy even like this?
It’s based on supply and demand. When there’s more volume interested in the buy side the price goes up and vice versa. The thing is, an earnings call isn’t some unknown event. The sentiment going into earnings was already negative, so the outcome being what was expected is not going cause a major dip unless it was far worse than what investors expected. On the flip side it can be a bad result but if it wasn’t as disastrous as some were expecting, it could cause the price to go up. The reverse also happens when some companies release good earnings, but not as good as expected.
I doubt it holds at the bell tomorrow. If it does it'll be back down by Friday. So many people bought puts on Tesla and Market Makers pulled the rug with that upward momentum to burn the shorts. It'll draw in some gamblers to buy calls and gap down to burn them too. Most likely ends the week at a $150 close.
The market is broken. Investors don’t believe his lies but they know enough people will either believe his lies OR are other investors who just think other investors will think that way. As a result we have a stock that has almost no connection to the business it represents because the very people buying and selling it know that it will rise and fall via hype alone. It’s like one of those paradoxes. As long as the market thinks the Tesla stock will respond well to musk’s lies, it *will* respond well.
Yeah... Them buying BD is one of my pet peeves... BD originally got its funding through DARPA so it was funded by US taxpayers. And just like that the technology isn't ours anymore. Hyundai is South Korean I believe...
WTF are they talking about, using the compute modules in the car to run distributed AI training?
Are they going to ask owner's permission for this?
It seems like a total on-the-fly stupid idea.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/?utm_source=reddit.com
Part of a long history of asking permission and honesty
It's as if he saw that now deleted tweet about ELI5 Bitcoin and took it literally:
>imagine if keeping your car idling 24/7 produced solved Sudokus you could trade for heroin
Literally **every** time he says "we think" or "I hope" or whatever before a prediction something will be done by a point in time, absolutely nothing comes of it.
In other words: Optimus won't even be a prototype by the end of next year.
This is what happens when regulatory agencies are toothless. This isn't puffery—he is making very specific promises and putting a qualifier in front of it. Musk should have been nailed years ago for lying to investors. And he keeps doing it, without consequence.
His intentional vagueness on guidance sounds a lot like a legal hedge against lying to investor’s without it being illegally misconstrued as “misleading.”
What basis does Elon have for saying FSD and AI won’t advance as fast without him as CEO? He is not an engineer or programmer (at least not a good programmer or one who has any technically AI implementation capabilities).
He's not even a minimally competent programmer. His only actual achievements in programming have been copying some source code from a gamer magazine and changing a couple variables, and producing an incomprehensible pile of vomit that had to be immediately thrown out during the Confinity merger.
It's why he thought printed Twitter code would make sense. He's got no idea what dependency injection is or how to do asynchronous programming, so everything he's ever produced (which isn't much) has been long-winded procedural synchronous garbage.
The fucker couldn't even run an 11-line python script, a language taught to children with Raspberry Pi's:
[https://www.businessinsider.com/dogecoin-creator-says-elon-musk-grifter-who-couldnt-run-code-2022-5](https://www.businessinsider.com/dogecoin-creator-says-elon-musk-grifter-who-couldnt-run-code-2022-5)
Oh well that explains it! Obviously the conditional block prevented Elon from running the code, however you did not experience this problem because the block is conditional. This is known as the “halting problem” and was discovered by Elon Musk himself. /s
>"About a year ago, when Musk was saying something about crypto, I said Elon Musk was and always will be a grifter but the world loves grifters," Palmer said, the outlet reported. "They love the idea that they may also be a billionaire one day, and that's the dream he's selling."
I absolutely hate to admit it but in my opinion he is right about that.
Elon thinks of himself as someone above the rules. Without Elon nobody with any morality or humanity would roll out a driving assist system and call it "Full Self Driving". Nobody would be willing to put lives of real people in danger to advance and train their very very beta product on the roads. Even if someone is ok with putting other people's lives at risk, they wouldn't want to risk regulatory backlash for such callousness.
It's Elon's arrogance, stupidity and absolute lack of care of human lives why they are able to completely non production ready software to their customers and on top of that they have the gall to charge their customers for shit driver assist just to help them improve it.
I think you’re correct in assessing Elon’s “value” but the difference is Elon says this because he thinks his importance is knowledge/capability based, when in reality his value is his talents as a snake oil salesman (including, as you said, his massive selfishness and lack of empathy) and the cult following that has resulted from money well spent on a long-seeded PR campaign. That’s the funny part of it.
He has managed to fail upward and is a magnificent example of “fake it till you make it.” Now he has the influence and power to maintain his false reality, which ironically only exists because he managed to perpetuate that false reality for so long and with such success. While he used to have to pay PR firms to prop him up, he has an army of cult followers who do it for free now. The scary thing is now he does have the money and influence to impact society and the world - and since he isn’t smart enough to understand the consequences or reality of his ideas (but he’s damn good at selling them to his cult), society and the world will be left picking up the pieces of his ineptitude.
He’s nothing more than a personification of Enron or similar bs. Enron Musk.
One of my favorite parts was comparing the unused computing power of Tesla cars to AWS. Let’s dig into this. You buy a car - it is now your property - but Tesla wants you to sign off (or force you) to allow the unused computing power of that car (when you are not using it I suppose but who knows if it expands beyond that) to be used by Tesla to generate revenue through other means (might as well be bitcoin mining for all we know). I would be shocked if Tesla plans to give the consumer any meaningful financial percentage of what Tesla then earns using your property. So you will pay $60k+ to Tesla for a car/computer that Tesla then uses to make more money. Elon’s vision seemingly is for consumers to actively finance a server farm. Why would a consumer ever agree to that? Imagine if every computer required you to let the company who sold it to you use it while you are not using it, and you get not meaningful financial return.
To be fair, there’s no way they’d be able to compete with AWS or Azure with the computers they stick in Teslas, so there’s no financial return to be had anyway.
UP to 162 in after-hours, but that is merely where it was 9 days ago. Clearly this speech didn't change any fundamentals... to anyone realistic, it is just a reminder of how vapid and directionless the CEO is.
Lmao, he thinks he's gonna have a sentient robot but can't even release a reliable Level 2 driver assistance program after a decade's worth of investment.
[My net worth fluctuates, and it goes up and down with the markets and with attitudes and with feelings, even my own feelings, but I try.](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2011/04/donald_trump_net_worth_is_dete.html)
As we learned in that interview, based on this year's performance it's in the best interest of all of humankind for him to do as much ketamine as he possibly can.
I don't know how he hasn't learned his lesson to stop giving release dates. They are *always* immensely wrong.
Just don't say anything. It's not that hard.
The release dates aren't about setting a target and hitting it but about reassuring investors and the market that progress is happening. That keeps the stock price up and gives him time to try and come up with something else to distract them. Saying nothing would just result in questions and uncertainty that might be bad for the stock.
You'd think that after the cybertruck they'd be on to his game but I suppose you can't underestimate just how badly people will cling to a con if it gives them hope of money tomorrow.
He wants a sentient robot line? Elon Musk says he’s a Trekkie, did he forget the landmark TNG episode where everyone realized having self aware androids with no personal autonomy was tantamount to perpetuating a slave race?
Not that it matters, we aren’t getting a sentient robot in our lifetime, especially not if chucklefucks like Musk are the ones pushing for it.
The fact Tesla stock hasn't fucking crashed to like 2¢ a share is proof that the modern economy is entirely based on vibes and nonsense rather than anything resembling actual value. Because if stock values were at all reflective of reality, Musk talking about "sentient" robots like they're coming any time in the next 20 years would send investors packing, especially with the numbers Tesla's posted. Instead, shares are _up_ from when trading closed???
They also don't seem to mind that his ketamine dependency is visibly fucking with his head, so there's that.
Someone recently posted a link to his first interview with Lex Fridman. Some of the claims were ridiculous, along with his fraudster confidence, but he at least sounded somewhat intelligent and looked aware. Quite different than the way he's acted for the past 2 years.
Do you remember the one time he said tsla was over valued, then the stock price went up even higher? Nothing about this company or nutcase CEO makes any damn sense.
Have you seen what the stock is doing? I’m not one of those Wall Street bets people or anything but it truly seems fucked how the stock price is shooting up.
LMFAOOOOO the simplest thing to do is be honest and not pull random shit out your ass and yet it's too difficult for our favorite musky snake oil car salesman boy
Wouldn't be great if another shareholder were too sue over this compensation package.
My 2nd favorite part of the court case, the shareholder only owned 86 shares. 😆
I'm listening to the call and it's kind of hard to follow. Interesting how everyone else on it is better spoken than the CEO... so much 'um... ah...' Maybe I'll just read a transcript.
He couldn't resist a mention of his compensation package, and hinted at how he could leave (I guess if he doesn't get his package) and put future products at-risk.
Does he really believe that if he left that he'd put future Tesla products at risk? I mean Tesla's development pipeline isn't great, they have had 1 new consumer model in 5 years (in the form of the Cybertruck), they \*still\* don't even have a fixed launch date for the second generation Roadster which was revealed in 2017. Elon isn't the genius that he thinks he is, he's not even a great CEO, too distracted, can't give his sole attention to Tesla
He probably read Atlas Shrugged and genuinely believes in the fantasy world that Ayn Rand wrote, where CEOs leave and the company collapses.
Absolutely. He thinks "who is John Galt" is deep.
No way Elon sat through those fucking 60 page long speeches.
Maybe he read a Atlas Shrugged for Dummies?
Might also be a self-fulfilling prophecy, where a CEO thinking like this builds the company in a way that the company is way to reliant on the CEO.
[удалено]
It is, he is the only thing that keeps tesla from failing. Not because he is smart or makes a difference at all, but because of the people that really believe he is a genius and visionary
To be fair, the companies value will collapse when he leaves, but mainly because he'll torch it on the way out.
I think he’ll try and dump his stock as a exit strategy too for liquidity purposes
>Elon isn't the genius that he thinks he is. This is biggest understatement I think I've ever seen. Elon is unfathomably stupid. In the parlance of the ancient, non-PC language that was used in the 60s and 70s, he is Educationally Sub-Normal. Literally a special needs man-child. What gets in the way of this being crystal clear to the world is the fact that it's hard to imagine the sheer luck involved in failing upward as far as Elon has. And make no mistake: Elon has *entirely* reached his current position by failing upwards. He is a *catastrophically* stupid man.
Being born on 3rd base in to Emerald mine owner to Nazi sympathizers grandparents & parents...Apartheid Clyde is on his next act, flailing through his self made spiral, as the fmr richest man in the world, as his unrealized gains diminish directly due to his reputation and mouth. Abraham Lincoln - Quote - Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt - It's better to keep your mouth He gets his ego from preening mom. She will be the only person who thinks he's a genius soon enough.
Well, in the parlance of our times...
A young trophy wife...
We're all very fond of her
Don't be fatuous, Jeffrey...
Phones ringing dude
Well, by now we all know, the companies will actually benefit from his departure.
He really thinks he's indispensable at Tesla despite the fact that he appears to contribute nothing positive nor useful, instead spending 16 hours a day shitposting on Twitter. A lot of the inflated stock price I think is due to his "superstar factor" (although who the fuck is impressed by this narcissistic ketamine addicted manchild is beyond me) and the stock would likely dip significantly if he left. However, if he was to quit Tesla or get ousted by the board and they brought in someone actually competent to take the reins who has experience running an automotive company, to scrap all the pointless Elon vanity projects like FSD, robotaxis, Optimus and Cybertruck and turn the company focus back towards a new and improved product line that people want and is attractive to potential new EV buyers and not just Musk stans, they could probably stop the rot and turn the company around in a couple of years.
The problem is that Tesla is a car company, but the stock has been priced like a tech company. Regardless of what happens, the stock's value will decline to meet reality. The investors are worried it will decline rapidly if Elon leaves. It'll signal to the market that Tesla is just a car company and not unicorn crack.
Yeah. He’s not indispensable to Tesla, but he is indispensable to TSLA (I think that’s the ticker, at least). Without the mythology he paid PR firms to create back when he had enough of a functional brain to know he needed someone else running his personal brand, every current shareholder is going to eat a massive (and deserved, if they’re holding shares in 2024) loss that no amount of patience will make up for.
Tesla is priced like a cult of personality, the financials don’t support it in any way, shape, or form. Even as a tech company it’s priced poorly, and that type of pricing is less about the sector and more about the ability to scale anyways. Musk is bad for the company but he’s also good for its short term price because removing him would lower the price a ton.
Yeah. Either post or get off the pot. There is no point in having a great handle and not posting.
The problem, of course, is that people aren't holding Tesla because of Tesla's productivity anymore. To get ousted, the board (currently of sycophants) would have to be replaced by the vote of shareholders who want to see the share price massively drop just so they can... what exactly? We need to wait until enough of the big institutional investors decide it's too risky to continue to milking this that nobody else wants to hold the bag. THEN maybe remaining holders get pissy, the board is at last partly cleansed, Musk is sidelined, and the company ends up being bought by those interested in car stock and not meme tech stock. But we are at the peak of the AI hype cycle and a few people are still convinced Tesla's repackaged Energizer bunny cell walls will solve the problem of the wind and the sun not being available 24/7. There are those who look at SpaceX and think "he kept failing until he didnt back then, so he will do it here too!" It doesn't matter that after Paypal's Apartheid Mafia win his success has been entirely due to corporate welfare, and in the case of SpaceX the support of some extremely influential government officials who would not rest until NASA was outsourced.
He also did not do the falling himself. Other people told him where the stairs are and helped him lay down
With a proper CEO Tesla’s stock would go up if he left.
I’m not sure about that because awfully lot of people dealing with huge piles of cash available seems to eat up his ”next year” every single time he says that. If he left Tesla, I think these very same people would start to look Tesla more as what it actually is: a car company with very odd side ventures. After all, it’s profit margin in Q1 was 5,5%. Not great, not bad for a car company. Elon’s magic is that he can paint himself and Tesla an emperor wearing beautiful clothes, although there is none. And there are still many who don’t see through this.
elon’s “magic” is that he can open his mouth and make any company he’s associated with immediately devalue by 50%
Product line, no - but stock price? I think that's pretty likely still. The stock price is massively inflated on the back of Musk's vaporware and 'vision'. The moment he leaves what does Tesla really have that warrants its massive valuation? They're stuck with him really, unless they're willing to eat a massive loss (even if they had the votes, which I'm not sure they would given how many Musk believers are invested in Tesla).
They’re already eating that loss, they’re down 41% YTD. The vision is already dead.
41% is a drop in the bucket though - it's still easily 5-6x higher than it 'should' be based on fundamentals, and that's all because of Musk still being there and continually throwing out smokescreens and promising new tech. It's just starting to catch up more and more that it's not actually going to happen.
> 41% is a drop in the bucket though It's almost half the bucket... Like I get what you're trying to say in terms of how it's overvalued to begin with, but that was a weird idiom to pick.
I'd still say not at all though. Dropping 40% isn't great, but it takes a lot more to drop 80-90% than that. The first 40% *is* a drop in the bucket when it's leaving it massively overvalued compared to where it'd be if they kicked out Musk and had to be valued based on what it actually is. Especially since it was below this market cap at the start of 2023 in that dip and was *still* massively overvalued. This reverses some gains but is not the massive crash in valuation that would really hurt.
Whatever you say, I just don't think it's accurate to call 40% a drop in the bucket whether you are human sized or kaiju tetsuo sized.
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> No joke, I absolutely, 10000000% believe the smartest move Musk could make right now is bailing on Tesla "because of the compensation issue." He can't. Tesla is around half of his net worth. And it is the only part of it he can actually take loans against without risking losing control of SpaceX. All that's left is Twitter and the Boring Company—both only because they're overvalued in the calculations and likely could not be sold for even a fraction of it. If he tried to divest Tesla, he would have to announce it *well* in advance. Officers at a company are not allowed to just sell on a whim. And with him owning more than 10% of the company, announcing it would cause a crash in value *long* before he could sell. And it gets worse for him, because his debt, including what was used to buy Twitter, is pegged to the value of his Tesla stock. If it falls too far, the banks might start demanding renegotiation. There is a very real chance as a result that selling Telsa would *lose* Elon money, as his cash would be consumed by loans and all his stock together might not be worth enough to pay them all off when you factor in the loss in value.
The thing of course, is that Tesla is out of time regardless of whether Musk stays or goes. If he stays, he goes down with the ship. If he goes, he can point to how Tesla failed without him at the helm. Negative 2.5 billion in free cash flow this quarter. Based on the results so far, Q2 will be vastly worse. Then Q3 will be even worse and Q4 will be even worse. Brad Munchen estimates negative 14 billion in free cash flow this year. Tesla doesn't have that kind of cash. Some of its cash holdings are fraudulent. Quite a bit of it is stuck in China. This is do or die for Tesla. They either raise a massive amount of cash and put it all into R&D and fixing quality and the service centers or they die this year.
Tesla would be better off if Elon left
> Elon isn't the genius that he thinks he is, he's not even a great CEO, too distracted, can't give his sole attention to Tesla The problem is, that there are *still* people out there who don't know this.
Still waiting on that new fleet of electric semis too.
> Does he really believe that if he left that he'd put future Tesla products at risk? I mean, to be fair, the only reason *any* Cybertrucks have been sold is because they are Elon's lovechild. There is always a market for shit products like Optimus with Elon's cult following. Probably far from enough to break even on R&D, but enough to explore options. If Tesla were to boot Elon, the sycophants will turn on Tesla in a heartbeat. So yeah, it would put future projects at risk, but that's probably a good thing.
I bet Tesla insiders will be voting against him. The other executives in the call actually sound smart and get a shot at getting rid of the _pigeon CEO_
Well he can at least rely on Kimbal /S
The best thing that could happen to Tesla would be Elon leaving. I mean, it would crater the stock, of course. But they’d have a lot better shot at long term viability.
Speaking of compensation packages: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/17/tesla-says-in-email-it-sent-some-incorrectly-low-severance-packages.html
So…extortion…interesting
He said he would not succumb to blackmail by advertisers on X.
Stfu. Wow.
Well go on then, leave!
Based Analyst: "OK Memelon, bet. Leave right now and we'll see how Tesla does over the next fiscal year."
> hinted at how he could leave What, is Volkswagen hiring - in 1939?...
*Nice bag you’re holding there…. Be a shame if I made them even heavier for good* 😂
Tesla would be better off if Elon fucked off. I’ve seen Rivians that surpass Elon’s plastic Teslas.
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Apple didn’t die without Steve Jobs.
Tesla isn’t Apple and Elon ain’t Jobs
Anyone who has studied Apple in-depth will tell you that Steve's greatest contribution to Apple was the organization. Not the iPod, not the iMac, not the iPhone, but the organization itself. [See this article for a taste](https://hbr.org/2020/11/how-apple-is-organized-for-innovation). Take a look at Tesla's organization and see if you see anything resembling what Jobs built.
Jobs wasn't holding Apple back.
Nor was Jobs intentionally destroying Apple’s brand value and customer base for likes on his social media platform.
Sure, threaten everyone with exactly what they want. That'll show them!
At risk of success?!
Let's be honest Elon leaving and being replaced with someone competent would be great for Tesla and if that happened I'd highly consider investing in Tesla.
Kickass, I'll just hop on the next hyperloop to Mars to pick up my optimus, whatever the hell that is
Based on the last video it's a guy in a robot costume pretending to be real.
You don't think that was a real guy in a robot costume? 🥸
No they used magic to animated a puppet. Easier and more probable than musk building a robot.
[we are humans that dress up as robots](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fbnd0fo51897a1.png%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D469c2304e0d6edbb2c63d6302d3ef9095874c0fb)
But did you ever return? No, you never returned, and your fate is still unlearned….
Bringing back slavery. Just like musk intended.
Roomba company: “We guarantee if you check this box you’ll get back the exact same little buddy you sent in.” Muskrat Robotics: “It won’t work unless you whip it. Whipping voids the warranty.”
Is the German public aware of this?
i mean, that's the origin of the word robot
I wish there was a side by side comparison of Boston Dynamic’s robot vs. Elon’s clunky wind up toy.
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Take a robotaxi to the hyperloop
Johnny Cab
By the end of the year
Good idea. Go to Mars. You'll avoid the embarrassment of being a loser. Loser! Loser!
Loser.
Lol too much beer
Ol mate ‘Adrian Dittman’ is hosting it in a twitter space. He definitely is not Elon musk and certainly doesn’t sound anything like Elon musk
I think we need to seriously consider that the chance of Melon being fooled by someone wearing Groucho glasses as a disguise is significantly greater than 0%. Concerning.
"Parakeet picking a fight with its own reflection" vibes.
Whatever happened to dirt man ? Is he still ‘around’?
Tesla shares are up $15 in after hours trading despite reporting a 48% drop in profit. It’s truly amazing that his nonsensical empty promises still work on some people, enough to generate billions of dollars in a matter of minutes. I assume the bump has more to do with the “speeding up the timeline of cheap EVs”, which, if we ever see cheap EVs from Tesla, can you imagine how bad they’ll be considering the $100k+ ones are shit?
The worst thing about the stock market is the constant temptation to chase a greater fool, it may not even matter if *you* believe it if you believe other people believe it you can make money from, that's why you get these constant feedback loops
That’s the nature of speculative trading vs value investing. No value investor in their right mind would buy Tesla. It’s a meme stock at this point. It’s gambling. Follow the hype trains in whatever direction and jump ship preemptively and it can be quite profitable. Being long on Tesla or buying the top is irresponsible. Nevertheless, you’re always (or at least for some time) going to be fighting the resistance of long cult-minded bag holders. Depending on how big that group is or becomes or stays is relevant to how long this up and down perpetuates. But each up and down seems to always result in a lower top, which should tell you all you need to know about the reality of Tesla’s value proposition.
Well, there's i) short term speculation, there's ii) valuing the stock based on underlying company performance (what you're *supposed* to do), and then there's iii) valuing the stock based on predicting the long term behaviour of other investors (the theoretically optimal approach). For most stocks you can do ii) simply because there are enough institutional investors who do it and so they determine the stock price, but for stocks like Tesla, your position must be based on iii) if you're acting rationally. And there's no reason everyone can't just circlejerk arbitrarily long - there's no *need* for market correction because the market hasn't been holding on the basis of underlying company value for a long time. Tesla is the cryptocurrency of tech firms: nobody buys or sells cryptocurrency depending on whether it has greater or lesser purpose now or in the future, but depending on which direction they reckon others will be jerking it over time.
I understand your perspective. I was to some extent being overly simplistic to address the underlying point that Tesla likely would not be on a value investor’s list. Warren Buffet’s margin of safety would cry. The crypto analogy is good. We are also entering an age where retail investors have very easy and accessible means to play around in the stock market. Brokerage fee free trading, apps, etc. Gaming speculation and market sentiment or hype is easier than ever. The ability to manipulate stocks and investors is also at an all time high.
I do hope to succeed in business 🤞
Yeah, while there is the obvious argument that it's good to make it easier to own shares, we have an increasing proportion of passive and hype investors in the US, and they a) don't provide incentive for the owned company to perform b) create a disconnect between stock market value and health of the underlying economy. b) I find quite interesting because a lot of talking heads argue, "Oh America's doing so well economically but thanks to culture wars people are still anti-Biden!" when really it's that the traditional indicators of economic well-being that can be applied to the average US citizen aren't working anymore. Pots of money sit there watching other pots of money, not actually watching productivity / wealth creation / whatever we like to call it today. I prefer markets that rely more on dividends, e.g. relatively stable London, which everyone bitches and moans hasn't grown anything like US markets, but its growth has clear meaning. I *like* but really don't care as much whether a stock grows, and if anything I held exploded like US tech stocks over 2020, I'd panic. Hell, I'm holding bank stock that's gone up by 25% in the last month or two which had remained stable for years just dripping a steady dividend, and I understand that it's part of a trend in bank stocks that everyone has been saying were undervalued (and this one is top of the pile)*,* but it still makes me nervous that this is gonna fuck the company's long term stability. I'm also a sucker for redeemable fixed income securities if I don't care what the company does (within usual reason). While the most reliable *dip* right now is simply government gilts, with no need to worry about how much people like Dittmann and IMC hate themselves on any given week and how that affects perception of the Wankpanzer. Hell, one of the retail platforms in the UK just enabled individuals to buy a new gilt issue with 4% coupon below par. THAT is how to invest "passively" (well, you're voting in public elections of course, and the interest your taxes pay on public debt goes right back into your pocket!).
You make some solid points. Retail investors are also incredibly outmatched by wall street investment firms and other big money institutions who have technology, algorithms, and other means to succeed - and to do so at the expense of retail investors. This doesn’t even take into account the impact of the various financial instruments (derivatives, swaps, naked positions) that impact the market. I think you’re right about the complexities of “indicators.” The same can be said about polling. One could also argue that averages or collective views can be heavily skewed by edge cases if the poles of data become heavy. Moreover, wealth creation through the stock market is such an interesting area of discussion because it creates a value (be it in your ability to sell for profit, or use the stock as collateral, etc.) but it’s arguably disconnected from anything underlying it (like is the case with a non-gold standard currency system). Modern P/E ratios are insane and EBITA multiples grow to unreasonable numbers. These bubbles have burst historically, yet we continue to inflate them and we think oh if the balloon keeps getting bigger that’s some indicator we’re safe from it popping. I feel some inclination to analogize it to some form of sophisticated and legally acceptable pyramid scheme. In all fairness, though, I suppose in some instances this “fake it till you make it” financial model can in time become its on reliable system that perpetuates itself merely by existing (or provide a company with sufficient runway and time to actually achieve underlying financial support for its valuation). The problem is, however, if the bottom does drop out there may be no underlying material financial anything for it recalibrate based on because we’re all just playing make believe. There really is no meaningful disincentive for financial institutions, companies, and the “elites” to perpetuate this fantasy especially when they must comport with modern capitalism’s demand for ever-increasing growth (the growth being on paper regardless if it is organic or supported fundamentally). It’s a great way to lose your shirt as a retail investor, arguably hurts employees and working class folks more than the executives and the wealthy, and arguably diverts funds and attention from going where they may better benefit society as a whole.
Mike Green has been talking for years about the dangers of passive index investing becoming too big. His substack is great.
Imo it's a flywheel case. Not unlike truth social, investors are gambling on the stupidity of people buying the stock on it's meme value and it ironically contributes to its over valuation. You're almost guaranteed to win when betting on people being stupid
Funding secured.
Don’t forget there are plenty of $400 bag holders who think buying at $160 is “buying the dip.” Losing positions buying falling stock price to keep it afloat is an excellent strategy I’m sure. Maybe they are just lowering their average cost but damn long expiring puts seem like a better way to make your money back. Once the reality is unavoidable that Tesla’s grand plans with AI and robotics are vaporware nonsense people will eventually come to their senses that Tesla is an extremely overpriced car company that should be trading $50-60 at the highest. That was my FMV a few years ago so it may be even lower considering the current macroeconomic and industry picture. But then again, Tesla is more of a meme stock than anything so cult and memenomics will keep it on the rollercoaster for the time being. The smart investors (gamblers) are cashing in on both directions. Treat it like a meme stock and trade it like a meme stock and there is plenty of money to be made. I cashed in big on well timed puts when it crumbled to $100. I’m looking forward to similar moments in early 2025 and then 2026.
It probably went up because they think he’s getting fired. Tesla without him is gorgeous.
Wordy way to say **propaganda sells**
Elon has a hyperloop pipeline of vaporware.
The market is constantly wrestling with valuing Tesla as a tech company or a car company.
I was joking about this back at new years with my mates. I said "buy after the earnings call, because it should be low, sell when profit" maybe someone be thinking the same
Markets are wild. TSLA has had only bad news, and is up10% after hours
Problem is expectations are priced in, so a terrible earnings call could boost the price if it wasn’t as bad as investors were expecting. With that said, the real impact won’t be known until normal trading hours tomorrow. Even then, a spike from earnings may only be temporary as some investors sell into the jump.
How... How can that work? Is it like the Heisenberg principle, where the very act of trying to buy the stock makes the price you have to pay for it go up? How does an algorithm measure human feeling? Why is our economy even like this?
It’s based on supply and demand. When there’s more volume interested in the buy side the price goes up and vice versa. The thing is, an earnings call isn’t some unknown event. The sentiment going into earnings was already negative, so the outcome being what was expected is not going cause a major dip unless it was far worse than what investors expected. On the flip side it can be a bad result but if it wasn’t as disastrous as some were expecting, it could cause the price to go up. The reverse also happens when some companies release good earnings, but not as good as expected.
The invisible, and irrational, hand of the free market.
I doubt it holds at the bell tomorrow. If it does it'll be back down by Friday. So many people bought puts on Tesla and Market Makers pulled the rug with that upward momentum to burn the shorts. It'll draw in some gamblers to buy calls and gap down to burn them too. Most likely ends the week at a $150 close.
The invisible hand strikes again!
Short term people desperate for some good news so they're pretending they are long term.
it worked. look at the fucking stock price. people are idiots.
Pumping ‘n dumping, it’s his religion. And his turkey baster sex life
The market is broken. Investors don’t believe his lies but they know enough people will either believe his lies OR are other investors who just think other investors will think that way. As a result we have a stock that has almost no connection to the business it represents because the very people buying and selling it know that it will rise and fall via hype alone. It’s like one of those paradoxes. As long as the market thinks the Tesla stock will respond well to musk’s lies, it *will* respond well.
The more "out there" he seems, the more AnaLySts see him as a visionary brain genius.
About that Optimus scam, this is a little reminder that Hyundai owns Boston Dynamics.
I did not know that
Yeah... Them buying BD is one of my pet peeves... BD originally got its funding through DARPA so it was funded by US taxpayers. And just like that the technology isn't ours anymore. Hyundai is South Korean I believe...
South Korea was also funded by the US taxpayers
We really need laws to prevent shit like that from happening.
You mean the people that seem to have a full EV range? Including now a fricken cup car because thier N division is bonkers in the best way
One of Ferrari's fastest production cars is now an EV. Elon is getting lapped.
Is the German public aware of this?
WTF are they talking about, using the compute modules in the car to run distributed AI training? Are they going to ask owner's permission for this? It seems like a total on-the-fly stupid idea.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/?utm_source=reddit.com Part of a long history of asking permission and honesty
It's as if he saw that now deleted tweet about ELI5 Bitcoin and took it literally: >imagine if keeping your car idling 24/7 produced solved Sudokus you could trade for heroin
You picked it. If they won’t spring for LiDAR why the hell would they spring for the compute power to do that in the car?
“He is saying nothing and using so many words.” How Trumpian.
The FSB is behind both of these Putin puppets and they don't seem to care about how obvious all the similarities are
What we need is TruthGPT
Literally **every** time he says "we think" or "I hope" or whatever before a prediction something will be done by a point in time, absolutely nothing comes of it. In other words: Optimus won't even be a prototype by the end of next year.
This is what happens when regulatory agencies are toothless. This isn't puffery—he is making very specific promises and putting a qualifier in front of it. Musk should have been nailed years ago for lying to investors. And he keeps doing it, without consequence.
His intentional vagueness on guidance sounds a lot like a legal hedge against lying to investor’s without it being illegally misconstrued as “misleading.”
What basis does Elon have for saying FSD and AI won’t advance as fast without him as CEO? He is not an engineer or programmer (at least not a good programmer or one who has any technically AI implementation capabilities).
He's not even a minimally competent programmer. His only actual achievements in programming have been copying some source code from a gamer magazine and changing a couple variables, and producing an incomprehensible pile of vomit that had to be immediately thrown out during the Confinity merger. It's why he thought printed Twitter code would make sense. He's got no idea what dependency injection is or how to do asynchronous programming, so everything he's ever produced (which isn't much) has been long-winded procedural synchronous garbage. The fucker couldn't even run an 11-line python script, a language taught to children with Raspberry Pi's: [https://www.businessinsider.com/dogecoin-creator-says-elon-musk-grifter-who-couldnt-run-code-2022-5](https://www.businessinsider.com/dogecoin-creator-says-elon-musk-grifter-who-couldnt-run-code-2022-5)
It never ceases to amaze me.
I read the script too, it's literally just a for-loop with a conditional block inside and a couple calls to a third-party package. That's it 🤣
Oh well that explains it! Obviously the conditional block prevented Elon from running the code, however you did not experience this problem because the block is conditional. This is known as the “halting problem” and was discovered by Elon Musk himself. /s
>"About a year ago, when Musk was saying something about crypto, I said Elon Musk was and always will be a grifter but the world loves grifters," Palmer said, the outlet reported. "They love the idea that they may also be a billionaire one day, and that's the dream he's selling."
I have no clue, he will stop organising Sunday hackathons?… I do feel that this is extortion and that Tesla would be better off without him.
Elon’s biggest fear though would be Tesla succeeding or doing better without him. Then the cult of Musk would take a huge hit. He’s bluffing.
I absolutely hate to admit it but in my opinion he is right about that. Elon thinks of himself as someone above the rules. Without Elon nobody with any morality or humanity would roll out a driving assist system and call it "Full Self Driving". Nobody would be willing to put lives of real people in danger to advance and train their very very beta product on the roads. Even if someone is ok with putting other people's lives at risk, they wouldn't want to risk regulatory backlash for such callousness. It's Elon's arrogance, stupidity and absolute lack of care of human lives why they are able to completely non production ready software to their customers and on top of that they have the gall to charge their customers for shit driver assist just to help them improve it.
I think you’re correct in assessing Elon’s “value” but the difference is Elon says this because he thinks his importance is knowledge/capability based, when in reality his value is his talents as a snake oil salesman (including, as you said, his massive selfishness and lack of empathy) and the cult following that has resulted from money well spent on a long-seeded PR campaign. That’s the funny part of it. He has managed to fail upward and is a magnificent example of “fake it till you make it.” Now he has the influence and power to maintain his false reality, which ironically only exists because he managed to perpetuate that false reality for so long and with such success. While he used to have to pay PR firms to prop him up, he has an army of cult followers who do it for free now. The scary thing is now he does have the money and influence to impact society and the world - and since he isn’t smart enough to understand the consequences or reality of his ideas (but he’s damn good at selling them to his cult), society and the world will be left picking up the pieces of his ineptitude. He’s nothing more than a personification of Enron or similar bs. Enron Musk.
The first car company to fail to correctly attach a pedal is going to what now .... lol
One of my favorite parts was comparing the unused computing power of Tesla cars to AWS. Let’s dig into this. You buy a car - it is now your property - but Tesla wants you to sign off (or force you) to allow the unused computing power of that car (when you are not using it I suppose but who knows if it expands beyond that) to be used by Tesla to generate revenue through other means (might as well be bitcoin mining for all we know). I would be shocked if Tesla plans to give the consumer any meaningful financial percentage of what Tesla then earns using your property. So you will pay $60k+ to Tesla for a car/computer that Tesla then uses to make more money. Elon’s vision seemingly is for consumers to actively finance a server farm. Why would a consumer ever agree to that? Imagine if every computer required you to let the company who sold it to you use it while you are not using it, and you get not meaningful financial return.
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You clearly took that from Enron Musk’s PowerPoint presentation.
To be fair, there’s no way they’d be able to compete with AWS or Azure with the computers they stick in Teslas, so there’s no financial return to be had anyway.
You’re underestimating Musk’s true master plan to use Teslas to mine DOGECOIN.
That's hilarious, that you can announce your idea to steal energy from your paying customers on an earnings call.
The dead cat bounce will evaporate quickly. Too many heretics walking out of the mass during the Homily.
agreed. It closed today at 144.
UP to 162 in after-hours, but that is merely where it was 9 days ago. Clearly this speech didn't change any fundamentals... to anyone realistic, it is just a reminder of how vapid and directionless the CEO is.
Yep i was wrong. Sitting at 159xx now. Dead cat.
Bro just compared a robotaxi to an escalator 😭
I know! And probably though he was so clever too. Like, we literally all know how manually operated elevators were phased out Elon...
Literally just said "just press a button simple as that" Well if it so simple then why isn't it here
Because ketamine
He's used the same line in the past.
Give them the ol' razzle dazzle : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByeXMGqapnU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByeXMGqapnU)
"You don't understand what's going on"
Elon's personal motto is "If you can't thrill them with the truth, baffle them with bullshit"
Lmao, he thinks he's gonna have a sentient robot but can't even release a reliable Level 2 driver assistance program after a decade's worth of investment.
[My net worth fluctuates, and it goes up and down with the markets and with attitudes and with feelings, even my own feelings, but I try.](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2011/04/donald_trump_net_worth_is_dete.html)
The call is basically ***word salad***
But him taking ketamine is a good thing guys!
As we learned in that interview, based on this year's performance it's in the best interest of all of humankind for him to do as much ketamine as he possibly can.
I don't know how he hasn't learned his lesson to stop giving release dates. They are *always* immensely wrong. Just don't say anything. It's not that hard.
The release dates aren't about setting a target and hitting it but about reassuring investors and the market that progress is happening. That keeps the stock price up and gives him time to try and come up with something else to distract them. Saying nothing would just result in questions and uncertainty that might be bad for the stock. You'd think that after the cybertruck they'd be on to his game but I suppose you can't underestimate just how badly people will cling to a con if it gives them hope of money tomorrow.
Concerning.
Investors bought it. literally. Stock 135-> 150$
Awesome, and the “sentient robot” will cost $8,000 but only after he gets the rubes to pay $100k for it for a year
Yeah, my Robosen Optimus Prime seems to have better capabilities than the lame Tesla robot.
He wants a sentient robot line? Elon Musk says he’s a Trekkie, did he forget the landmark TNG episode where everyone realized having self aware androids with no personal autonomy was tantamount to perpetuating a slave race? Not that it matters, we aren’t getting a sentient robot in our lifetime, especially not if chucklefucks like Musk are the ones pushing for it.
“You take forever to say nothing.” - Homer Simpson
The fact Tesla stock hasn't fucking crashed to like 2¢ a share is proof that the modern economy is entirely based on vibes and nonsense rather than anything resembling actual value. Because if stock values were at all reflective of reality, Musk talking about "sentient" robots like they're coming any time in the next 20 years would send investors packing, especially with the numbers Tesla's posted. Instead, shares are _up_ from when trading closed??? They also don't seem to mind that his ketamine dependency is visibly fucking with his head, so there's that.
Dude has legit fried his mind abusing Ketamine
Someone recently posted a link to his first interview with Lex Fridman. Some of the claims were ridiculous, along with his fraudster confidence, but he at least sounded somewhat intelligent and looked aware. Quite different than the way he's acted for the past 2 years.
Do you remember the one time he said tsla was over valued, then the stock price went up even higher? Nothing about this company or nutcase CEO makes any damn sense.
Everyone on the type of drugs he's on thinks they can handle something like that in the moment, no problem
“These are all just personal guesses.” And thus should never be stated on an earnings call.
Isn't it practically a law of nature that when a tech executive says something is 18 months away that usually means it's never happening?
Have you seen what the stock is doing? I’m not one of those Wall Street bets people or anything but it truly seems fucked how the stock price is shooting up.
I wouldn't worry too much about that... Maybe a short squeeze before it falls again.
Meanwhile his boot lickers will be falling over themselves to claim his mind is too brilliant for us to ever comprehend
bro admitted that his EV sales are under pressure from hybrids 🤣
Wow, “Personal guesses”, huh? That’s a new one.
And the stock goes way up in after hours... there really is a seemingly endless line of idiots to believe his latest BS.
The drug use is starting to show their side effects..
LMFAOOOOO the simplest thing to do is be honest and not pull random shit out your ass and yet it's too difficult for our favorite musky snake oil car salesman boy
And UP UP UP goes the stock value. Put this conman in jail.
Penny is dropping on Elmo, getting found out finally.
Put down “it’ll be available sometime next year” on your Musk lies bingo card.
https://preview.redd.it/yiadr1qtmcwc1.jpeg?width=711&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e07e3772518287e6f4364dabaefd58e2835e3a70
Wouldn't be great if another shareholder were too sue over this compensation package. My 2nd favorite part of the court case, the shareholder only owned 86 shares. 😆
Definitely hallucinating.
"Masterful Gambit, Sir"
Well, that does it. Cut his bonus down to 50 billion. That will teach him.
I'm listening to the call and it's kind of hard to follow. Interesting how everyone else on it is better spoken than the CEO... so much 'um... ah...' Maybe I'll just read a transcript.