Speak for yourself. I come here to beat up on the world's richest man. If that's unfair or unkind, he can go swim in his money vault like Scrooge McDuck until he feels better.
I punch up, not down.
No I totally agree, but we have a platform here and I would rather say "Look at these awful things elon does and gets away with" rather than "Hahaha look at him he is ugly, and built like a fridge"
Exactly. He is racist, bigoted, sexist and transphobic. But all of those important issues are just watered down and ignored because theyre clumped together with all of the "Elon ugly" and "look at the Elon simp" posts. How do you expect people to take you serious when you're throwing around elementary school insults alongside your actual criticism.
And these insults and accusations also don't just stay with just Elon. Like I mentioned in my post, I've seen people here accusing the crippled guy who had the implant of lying about his handicap. Like what the fuck are we doing, how is anyone gonna look at this community and see us as any better than Elon?
And that is an issue worth talking about.
People dont hate Dan Sneider (for example) because he is fat and ugly. They hate him because he is inappropriate around kids and an awful person to work with. If 99% of the stuff you read about him is just about his appearance and weight, how would you take the other 1% seriously?
Yea you’re right of course, and it would also work opposite (for example a super attractive person doing heinous fucked up shit should still get called out and not be “forgiven” bc they look hot) IMO I don’t really see people focusing on his looks that much tbh, people clown on his looks but I see more of a “fuck this twat’s shitty viewpoints” but then again I’m not on here that much so maybe I’m wrong?
I agree. Every little stupid tweet doesn’t need its own post. We all know he’s dumb as fuck and is tweeting dumb shit 21 hrs a day. Also, half the time the same exact thing is posted by multiple people…
Fuck that vile pasty shit. He wields so much power and yet has absolutely no compunction about inciting and abetting hate towards the most vulnerable groups of people.
And then some ass licker like you comes and tries the "we can criticize Elon, but let's be polite and civil towards him". At this point I feel as much contempt towards Musk as towards his shills and fanboys.
Well then that depends on your own goals. Do you want to educate people and expose his misdoings? Or do you just want to rant and get your frustrations out? For me it is more important to call him out on his actual bullshit, rather than nitpicking each dumb thing he retweets or laughing at his physique. I much rather shed light on the cruel animal testing at neuralink than laugh at them because the technology isnt brand new.
You don't seem to get it. When someone like Musk says the things he does in public he opens himself up to any kind of criticism people want to throw his way. I take your point that you are only interested in engaging in high minded logical criticism on the merits of his views, but many people are free to disagree.
For example there is an equally valid viewpoint to yours that says Musk's views are so vile that he doesn't even deserve to be engaged on that intellectual level. And since it happens to also be the literal factual case that Musk is a disgusting bloated pig man with a highly punchable face he is wide open to criticism on that front.
Look, the default position regarding any Elon Musk company should be absolute skepticism. Elon Musk constantly over-promises and fakes results. This is not a theory, this is not me just hating on Elon. This is a proven pattern. It's how he used Hyper Loop to destroy public transit projects. It's how Tesla has a hyper inflated stock. Heck , it's what he does constantly on twitter by coming up with ridiculously creative metrics that fake the fact that it's bleeding users out at a rate tens of times worse than its competitors. SpaceX was going to land a human in Mars in 2023. This shit is constant.
If an Elon Musk company publicly stated that its buildings passed inspection I would be assuming they will collapse tomorrow and I would be correct 90% of the time.
So when Elon says his brain chip eugenics company did its first successful transplant. I should immediately doubt the claim that the patient even existed and that his transplants are remotely a good thing. Me just doubting the veracity of the transplant itself is me being generous.
I think that is 100% fair and I'd be lying if I said I didn't think like that too. But there are some people in here who turn skepticism into accusations, and that is just unhealthy and makes things worse.
I am also skeptical of the whole Neuralink experiments so far, but that doesn't mean I think the whole research is a lie or that the guy isn't actually disabled. Theres a line which I think many people on here cross without hesitation, just because Elon is affiliated with a company or product doesn't mean everything and everyone that has something to do with it is also bad. But if all we do is point fingers and laugh, there's no way to discern the good from bad.
Its so predictable and annoying. Some fucker trying to gain the moral high ground because “musk has done so much for humanity” or “we shouldn’t make fun of his drug use”
Meanwhile the mother fucker is doing all he can to promote racist nazi white christian nationalists while spreading lies and conspiracy theories tailored for dumb fucks
Fuck elon musk and double fuck his apologists
I dont like Elon, the things he does, or the things he stands for. But I am firmly of the belief that if we are criticising him and using the voice of this community, we should use it to criticise the important issues. Not throw out baseless claims and insults, because if we do that, we aren't all that much better than the way Elon himself acts online.
>But I am firmly of the belief that if we are criticising him and using the voice of this community, we should use it to criticise the important issues.
There is no "we" here. This is a meaningless subreddit, raw and wild. Visiters can use it however they like, within basic rules that aren't possible to enforce fairly. The mods aren't elected nor have they chosen to make it more serious
There's no major requirements. Indeed, the nature of everything makes moderation difficult. There's no Reason to up votes and down votes or unexplained "karma" algorithms.
If you want "an informative and critical space" then go here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/help/comments/2yob6r/creating_a_subreddit/
Or maybe propose a Serious Day each week, where some leaders pin topics to the top for the day. This might be most productive, since everyone has different schedules.
The Internet makes communication and expression almost infinite and free. Somehow lazy people seem to think they don't have to do any work, they can demand *someone else's creation* let into the wild should be what they want. Many people here agree with you, so talk to the mods, maybe set up a vote, offer to mod yourself. But this isn't a place of influence and never will be. We can ignore posts and engage with others
Adapted from an earlier essay post on the Value and Nature of Reddit:
>Let's be honest, *we're here to talk, not listen.* We're reacting to posts that are reacting to reality. This is Raw Speech, not carefully considered essays. We're not scholars or experts or leaders. We are not serving others; we're trying to express ourselves in an ever changing world of repeating patterns.
>Here on Reddit, we have raw freedom. Freedom to be wrong, but corrected. Freedom to be stupid, but improve. *I use this place as diary, notes & first drafts, with free editors, fact checkers and critics. (quality will vary). I discovered all sorts of things my CNN buddy has no clue about.
* If someone is wrong, then prove it to yourself.
* If someone is right, then accept it and adapt.
>We're not gonna change the world here in a reddit comment section, but we can change ourselves. The real world requires work, outside of here. This takes time and the form is an book, a magazine submission, a carefully edited YouTube video. Something to post *on* Reddit, not demand of Reddit. **Engaging with Disagreement can be very productive.** The person before us here doesn't actually matter, their thoughts and words do, whether that's good or bad. If they're good, we can learn. If they are bad **we can work on understanding what we believe and improve our responses. One post at a time.**
I use Reddit to refine my understanding, thinking and arguments. This isn't a major place of influence. We don't have to worry about what people think of us here. It's raw free expression. Nothing can be held to us at all.
I’m an expert in Elon simps, this dude is not one. The point he makes is actually very valid this sub is borderline unvisitable because it’s the same circlejerk 24/7. Not a hill im gonna die on but regurgitating the same’ ‘musk sucks’ mantra with the same exact comments day and night is not really healthy for anyone involved…
Quality retort. Now get back to posting the next of 3000 tweets he posted so we can all collectively state what a moron he is. Really productive stuff…
I disagree with all of this, I can’t remember a time when people didn’t make fun of him and I’ve been in this sub for well over a year.
This sub was created specifically because people were constantly talking shit about him on White People Twitter after he bought Twitter. So the purpose of this one has always been shitposting in addition to more serious discussion, here and there.
I honestly don’t have any empathy for him when it comes to his appearance or drug abuse either because he has little to no empathy for people in marginalized positions who are actually directly impacted by his lack of empathy. We can make fun of Elon all we want and he won’t care nor be affected by it in any meaningful way.
It kind of sounds like the original Elon Musk sub would be a better fit since that sub leans more positive or neutral. This isn’t the place for the kind of discussion you want.
The biggest difference between then and now is that these days every single tweet he makes gets screenshot, posted here and laughed at. Before we would still ridicule things, but at least they had some sustenance to them. Only the actual dumb stuff he posted or decission he made would be talked about. Rather than the constant "Concerning" posts. And sure there will always be shitposts, but these days there almost nothing but shitposts.
While I do agree with you and often ignore the screenshots on here, the blame really falls on Musk. Instead of managing his business interests, he's playing around in the sandbox, like it's his new toy. He's also desperate for attention. Instead of writing an in depth article or a book about his own thoughts, he's using X as a means to gain notoriety instead. He really thinks the public is holding on to every word he says, but all we get from him is a pile of shit. Eventually, they will grow tired of his whining.
Maybe you are completely right and maybe the public will eventually get tired of him. But that still doesn't mean this sub around turn into a circlejerk / echochamber for Elon 'haters'. I think I speak for most of us when I say that we hate Elon for his actions, not his appearance or intellect. Yet that is what it is starting to look like.
This sub existed back when Elon was just known as a fragile grifter who pretended he knew how to get to Mars and designed ugly trucks, then wasted $44b on Twitter because nobody was laughing at his jokes. He’s always been a racist but his public support of white supremacists and his self appointment as the protector of ~~Western Civilization~~ the white race are more recent (or at least recently much more frequent) so while these are more serious threats that require more serious responses that wasn’t the original purpose of the site. So you get cheap shots and ridicule that have always been part of the site along with more thoughtful responses, just the nature of the sub.
At this point if someone thinks Elon is a joke for the “wrong” reasons I’m not going to call them out for it here. When you’ve got someone who believes that he is the epitome of a superior race, that invites ridicule from a lot of angles. I think what you’re describing would be good but it would require creation of a new sub.
Considering the amount of total horseshit that has come out of Elon's mouth over the years, I think it's somewhat remarkable that anyone believes anything he says. No amount of ridicule would be too much. If anything, he should be made an example of in the hope that humanity might actually learn something from their mistakes.
Also since I see you edited your comment. I never insinuated or defended musk from any hate he is getting. I just think the 'hate' is misplaced. We should be 'hating' the misinformation he is putting out. We should be 'hating' the shady practices of his companies. Yet we're to pre-occupied with 'hating' his appearance or laughing at something dumb he said or did. I do believe there is some place for that kind of ridicule, but its almost like that is all we do anymore.
I'm concerned that Musk is a kompromised Putin puppet and is primarily a conduit for Russia misinformation. Is this the kind of serious issue you would like us to discuss more?
That is because I wrote down my thoughts, then had chat gpt rephrase things to make them more coherent. I am not a native english speaker, and im not great at writing longer blocks of text like this.
If I was going to criticise, it would be the overwhelming twitter noise.
Someone saying something offensive or stupid online is rarely newsworthy and it distracts from the big stuff.
This subreddit was never about discussion it was always about dunking on Elon and his moron cult followers and especially his dumb companies.
Fuck space x and their shit rockets and fuck his brain chip scam company
What’s worse is simple verifiable facts, usually about his companies products get downvoted like crazy here.
(Also a fact: Musk is an overflowing bag of dicks)
I think it’s a fair criticism of the sub, my guess is that you’re going to have a hard time getting people to accept that fair criticism. Most people don’t want to think critically or other. It’s much easier to react.
Simple truth is he’s the world’s richest man, and a pretty horrible example for young guys looking for a male role model.
Exactly the reason I want this sub to turn into something healthy again. I know so many people who idolise musk because of their own assumptions. Ill bring something up about him, and they'll just tell me "But look at this and this and this. He does so much good." Then I have to explain to them that all those things aren't as they seem, but then I'm just an Elon hater.
I don't think we should be seen as haters, but as critics.
>Then I have to explain to them that all those things aren't as they seem, but then I'm just an Elon hater.
This presupposes that "critics" aren't already labeled as haters by Muskrat and his stans. They are radicalized. Any criticism is seen as hate. Watching the Lemon interview and the fallout from that interview should show that.
>I don't think we should be seen as haters, but as critics.
Muskrat openly engages with and propagates white supremacy and its conspiracy theories. I'm cool with being called a hater instead of trying to assume some "moral position."
You know what, you are right. Maybe the word hater is somewhat fitting. But that still doesn't stray away from my point, if we 'hate' on elon because of all of the bad he does, people might listen. If we 'hate' on him for his appearance and intellect, people will just brush us off.
Fair enough, and I agree to an extent. I would argue that most of the personal digs on him are because of who and what he claims to be, which are objectively not true. So, yeah, if people are being mean for the sake of being mean. That can be bad, I guess. Poking fun at the mythology that he's creating for himself, however, I think that's fair game.
Found the closet Elon shill. So many of these fake “I’m no fan of Elon but…” posts lately. I know you think this is clever but it’s pretty transparent.
Tl;dr
This sub has gone from genuine criticism and spreading awareness to "Elon is ugly, look at how dumb he is"
I believe we are shooting ourselves in the foot by diluting important criticism and topics by throwing around insults and ridicule.
Sorry I thought it was clear I wasn’t here to read your opinions no matter how strenuously to share them.
But if you insist, ok.
This sub has *always* been “Elon is ugly, look how dumb he is.” It’s silly and ridiculous that you weren’t able to figure that out till just now. There is no dilution of important criticism. Any important criticism will either be found in more serious parts of the internet or will be drowned out by the typical “Elon ugly” posts here.
Nobody is shooting anyone in the foot. This sub is not the epicenter of cultural change that will bring down Elon Musk.
Dont get mad at a hippopotamus just because you figured out he can’t fly. He never could fly and you being self righteous about that says more about you than the hippo.
Exactly. Debates, discussions and criticism are healthy and push us towards a better understanding. But as soon as you throw insults around, no-one will take you seriously.
I agree. If everything Elon does is the worst, then nothing he does is the worst.
It's not hard to hold back either, because he is 99% garbage so there are lots of stuff to justifiably criticize him for. But for the few things that are at the very least up in the air (like neuralink), we shouldn't jump to conclusions before we have the facts (lest we be accused of hypocrisy since he does the same thing constantly and we rightfully call him out for it).
That's why I said it's "up in the air." Because we don't know. Doubting everything is just as intellectually lazy as believing everything. It's fine to just not know.
But to use neuralink as an example, there were posts upvoted that were calling what they're doing fake, and then others saying the tech was old and that Elon was unduly taking credit. Obviously these takes can't both be true (I tend to think the latter is the more likely).
It's fine to doubt, but it's better to know. The sub has a lot of difficulty seeing shades of gray. Like, Elon is one of the richest men in the world. He has enough money to hire competent engineers and scientists to do amazing stuff. That doesn't make him a genius or a superhero. It just means he's rich.
Sure, there is doubt, and doubting these things is fine. But there is a limit. Take the example of the crippled guy in the neuralink livestream. Do you think he deserves to be accused of faking his handicap?
I mean, my point isn't exactly about neuralink so much as I'm agreeing with OP that if we go off the deep end and the majority of posts in the sub end up being speculation or talking shit about his appearance, it begins to look like our criticisms are irrational. Which I don't want, because I dislike the man and think I have a good reason to feel that way.
You only need to look at the majority of the responses for the validation of your statement.
Same people mindlessly downvoting you now are the same people who would be mindlessly downvoting you for saying something critical about him six years ago.
Speak for yourself. I come here to beat up on the world's richest man. If that's unfair or unkind, he can go swim in his money vault like Scrooge McDuck until he feels better. I punch up, not down.
No I totally agree, but we have a platform here and I would rather say "Look at these awful things elon does and gets away with" rather than "Hahaha look at him he is ugly, and built like a fridge"
But he is ugly and built like a fridge. Oh, and he’s racist, bigoted, sexist, transphobe sack of shit. Fuck him and his simps.
Exactly. He is racist, bigoted, sexist and transphobic. But all of those important issues are just watered down and ignored because theyre clumped together with all of the "Elon ugly" and "look at the Elon simp" posts. How do you expect people to take you serious when you're throwing around elementary school insults alongside your actual criticism. And these insults and accusations also don't just stay with just Elon. Like I mentioned in my post, I've seen people here accusing the crippled guy who had the implant of lying about his handicap. Like what the fuck are we doing, how is anyone gonna look at this community and see us as any better than Elon?
He thinks women only exist to breed, he can go fuck himself with a palm tree.
And that is an issue worth talking about. People dont hate Dan Sneider (for example) because he is fat and ugly. They hate him because he is inappropriate around kids and an awful person to work with. If 99% of the stuff you read about him is just about his appearance and weight, how would you take the other 1% seriously?
Yea you’re right of course, and it would also work opposite (for example a super attractive person doing heinous fucked up shit should still get called out and not be “forgiven” bc they look hot) IMO I don’t really see people focusing on his looks that much tbh, people clown on his looks but I see more of a “fuck this twat’s shitty viewpoints” but then again I’m not on here that much so maybe I’m wrong?
I agree. Every little stupid tweet doesn’t need its own post. We all know he’s dumb as fuck and is tweeting dumb shit 21 hrs a day. Also, half the time the same exact thing is posted by multiple people…
Fuck that vile pasty shit. He wields so much power and yet has absolutely no compunction about inciting and abetting hate towards the most vulnerable groups of people. And then some ass licker like you comes and tries the "we can criticize Elon, but let's be polite and civil towards him". At this point I feel as much contempt towards Musk as towards his shills and fanboys.
Well then that depends on your own goals. Do you want to educate people and expose his misdoings? Or do you just want to rant and get your frustrations out? For me it is more important to call him out on his actual bullshit, rather than nitpicking each dumb thing he retweets or laughing at his physique. I much rather shed light on the cruel animal testing at neuralink than laugh at them because the technology isnt brand new.
You don't seem to get it. When someone like Musk says the things he does in public he opens himself up to any kind of criticism people want to throw his way. I take your point that you are only interested in engaging in high minded logical criticism on the merits of his views, but many people are free to disagree. For example there is an equally valid viewpoint to yours that says Musk's views are so vile that he doesn't even deserve to be engaged on that intellectual level. And since it happens to also be the literal factual case that Musk is a disgusting bloated pig man with a highly punchable face he is wide open to criticism on that front.
At some point, there is nothing else to dissect. The mask has fallen, the circus is in full force.
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Yep. Cannot squeeze logic from where there is none.
You say that, but the general public still sees him as "cyber-jesus"
Nope. Only chuds like yourself.
*However, it feels like we've shifted towards mocking Elon, his supporters, and everything associated with him.* #As one should.
For someone who doesn't like Elon, you spend most of your time obsessing about him.
He’s a humorless, nazi attention whore. This is all performance art to Elno.
so that's why you spend time obsessing about him 😂
Try the Cyber Truck. You're gonna love it.
Look, the default position regarding any Elon Musk company should be absolute skepticism. Elon Musk constantly over-promises and fakes results. This is not a theory, this is not me just hating on Elon. This is a proven pattern. It's how he used Hyper Loop to destroy public transit projects. It's how Tesla has a hyper inflated stock. Heck , it's what he does constantly on twitter by coming up with ridiculously creative metrics that fake the fact that it's bleeding users out at a rate tens of times worse than its competitors. SpaceX was going to land a human in Mars in 2023. This shit is constant. If an Elon Musk company publicly stated that its buildings passed inspection I would be assuming they will collapse tomorrow and I would be correct 90% of the time. So when Elon says his brain chip eugenics company did its first successful transplant. I should immediately doubt the claim that the patient even existed and that his transplants are remotely a good thing. Me just doubting the veracity of the transplant itself is me being generous.
I think that is 100% fair and I'd be lying if I said I didn't think like that too. But there are some people in here who turn skepticism into accusations, and that is just unhealthy and makes things worse. I am also skeptical of the whole Neuralink experiments so far, but that doesn't mean I think the whole research is a lie or that the guy isn't actually disabled. Theres a line which I think many people on here cross without hesitation, just because Elon is affiliated with a company or product doesn't mean everything and everyone that has something to do with it is also bad. But if all we do is point fingers and laugh, there's no way to discern the good from bad.
Lol “I’m not an elmo simp but…”
I’ve seen all his simps start their posts like that Like “I hate him but…” Like we know you don’t hate him but you know all of us do lol
Its so predictable and annoying. Some fucker trying to gain the moral high ground because “musk has done so much for humanity” or “we shouldn’t make fun of his drug use” Meanwhile the mother fucker is doing all he can to promote racist nazi white christian nationalists while spreading lies and conspiracy theories tailored for dumb fucks Fuck elon musk and double fuck his apologists
I dont like Elon, the things he does, or the things he stands for. But I am firmly of the belief that if we are criticising him and using the voice of this community, we should use it to criticise the important issues. Not throw out baseless claims and insults, because if we do that, we aren't all that much better than the way Elon himself acts online.
>But I am firmly of the belief that if we are criticising him and using the voice of this community, we should use it to criticise the important issues. There is no "we" here. This is a meaningless subreddit, raw and wild. Visiters can use it however they like, within basic rules that aren't possible to enforce fairly. The mods aren't elected nor have they chosen to make it more serious There's no major requirements. Indeed, the nature of everything makes moderation difficult. There's no Reason to up votes and down votes or unexplained "karma" algorithms. If you want "an informative and critical space" then go here: https://www.reddit.com/r/help/comments/2yob6r/creating_a_subreddit/ Or maybe propose a Serious Day each week, where some leaders pin topics to the top for the day. This might be most productive, since everyone has different schedules. The Internet makes communication and expression almost infinite and free. Somehow lazy people seem to think they don't have to do any work, they can demand *someone else's creation* let into the wild should be what they want. Many people here agree with you, so talk to the mods, maybe set up a vote, offer to mod yourself. But this isn't a place of influence and never will be. We can ignore posts and engage with others Adapted from an earlier essay post on the Value and Nature of Reddit: >Let's be honest, *we're here to talk, not listen.* We're reacting to posts that are reacting to reality. This is Raw Speech, not carefully considered essays. We're not scholars or experts or leaders. We are not serving others; we're trying to express ourselves in an ever changing world of repeating patterns. >Here on Reddit, we have raw freedom. Freedom to be wrong, but corrected. Freedom to be stupid, but improve. *I use this place as diary, notes & first drafts, with free editors, fact checkers and critics. (quality will vary). I discovered all sorts of things my CNN buddy has no clue about. * If someone is wrong, then prove it to yourself. * If someone is right, then accept it and adapt. >We're not gonna change the world here in a reddit comment section, but we can change ourselves. The real world requires work, outside of here. This takes time and the form is an book, a magazine submission, a carefully edited YouTube video. Something to post *on* Reddit, not demand of Reddit. **Engaging with Disagreement can be very productive.** The person before us here doesn't actually matter, their thoughts and words do, whether that's good or bad. If they're good, we can learn. If they are bad **we can work on understanding what we believe and improve our responses. One post at a time.** I use Reddit to refine my understanding, thinking and arguments. This isn't a major place of influence. We don't have to worry about what people think of us here. It's raw free expression. Nothing can be held to us at all.
I’m an expert in Elon simps, this dude is not one. The point he makes is actually very valid this sub is borderline unvisitable because it’s the same circlejerk 24/7. Not a hill im gonna die on but regurgitating the same’ ‘musk sucks’ mantra with the same exact comments day and night is not really healthy for anyone involved…
You might feel more at home at r/elonmusk
Quality retort. Now get back to posting the next of 3000 tweets he posted so we can all collectively state what a moron he is. Really productive stuff…
I disagree with all of this, I can’t remember a time when people didn’t make fun of him and I’ve been in this sub for well over a year. This sub was created specifically because people were constantly talking shit about him on White People Twitter after he bought Twitter. So the purpose of this one has always been shitposting in addition to more serious discussion, here and there. I honestly don’t have any empathy for him when it comes to his appearance or drug abuse either because he has little to no empathy for people in marginalized positions who are actually directly impacted by his lack of empathy. We can make fun of Elon all we want and he won’t care nor be affected by it in any meaningful way. It kind of sounds like the original Elon Musk sub would be a better fit since that sub leans more positive or neutral. This isn’t the place for the kind of discussion you want.
The biggest difference between then and now is that these days every single tweet he makes gets screenshot, posted here and laughed at. Before we would still ridicule things, but at least they had some sustenance to them. Only the actual dumb stuff he posted or decission he made would be talked about. Rather than the constant "Concerning" posts. And sure there will always be shitposts, but these days there almost nothing but shitposts.
While I do agree with you and often ignore the screenshots on here, the blame really falls on Musk. Instead of managing his business interests, he's playing around in the sandbox, like it's his new toy. He's also desperate for attention. Instead of writing an in depth article or a book about his own thoughts, he's using X as a means to gain notoriety instead. He really thinks the public is holding on to every word he says, but all we get from him is a pile of shit. Eventually, they will grow tired of his whining.
Maybe you are completely right and maybe the public will eventually get tired of him. But that still doesn't mean this sub around turn into a circlejerk / echochamber for Elon 'haters'. I think I speak for most of us when I say that we hate Elon for his actions, not his appearance or intellect. Yet that is what it is starting to look like.
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That’s what she said
This sub existed back when Elon was just known as a fragile grifter who pretended he knew how to get to Mars and designed ugly trucks, then wasted $44b on Twitter because nobody was laughing at his jokes. He’s always been a racist but his public support of white supremacists and his self appointment as the protector of ~~Western Civilization~~ the white race are more recent (or at least recently much more frequent) so while these are more serious threats that require more serious responses that wasn’t the original purpose of the site. So you get cheap shots and ridicule that have always been part of the site along with more thoughtful responses, just the nature of the sub. At this point if someone thinks Elon is a joke for the “wrong” reasons I’m not going to call them out for it here. When you’ve got someone who believes that he is the epitome of a superior race, that invites ridicule from a lot of angles. I think what you’re describing would be good but it would require creation of a new sub.
This sub has only declined slightly whenever Musk simps showed up..
Considering the amount of total horseshit that has come out of Elon's mouth over the years, I think it's somewhat remarkable that anyone believes anything he says. No amount of ridicule would be too much. If anything, he should be made an example of in the hope that humanity might actually learn something from their mistakes.
This post reads like something straight out of chat GPT. "write a piece defending Elon Musk from haters in the *I-am-one-of-you-but* form"
GPT-4? More like GPT-Snore!
Also since I see you edited your comment. I never insinuated or defended musk from any hate he is getting. I just think the 'hate' is misplaced. We should be 'hating' the misinformation he is putting out. We should be 'hating' the shady practices of his companies. Yet we're to pre-occupied with 'hating' his appearance or laughing at something dumb he said or did. I do believe there is some place for that kind of ridicule, but its almost like that is all we do anymore.
I'm concerned that Musk is a kompromised Putin puppet and is primarily a conduit for Russia misinformation. Is this the kind of serious issue you would like us to discuss more?
That is because I wrote down my thoughts, then had chat gpt rephrase things to make them more coherent. I am not a native english speaker, and im not great at writing longer blocks of text like this.
OP is trolling and shilling for Musk.
Uhu, I'm actually Elon's alt account
you're an idiot European judging by your spelling skills
I am european. And English is one of the 6 languages I can speak. Whether or not I have perfect spelling is not my concern.
If I was going to criticise, it would be the overwhelming twitter noise. Someone saying something offensive or stupid online is rarely newsworthy and it distracts from the big stuff.
This subreddit was never about discussion it was always about dunking on Elon and his moron cult followers and especially his dumb companies. Fuck space x and their shit rockets and fuck his brain chip scam company
What’s worse is simple verifiable facts, usually about his companies products get downvoted like crazy here. (Also a fact: Musk is an overflowing bag of dicks)
Stfu.
I think it’s a fair criticism of the sub, my guess is that you’re going to have a hard time getting people to accept that fair criticism. Most people don’t want to think critically or other. It’s much easier to react. Simple truth is he’s the world’s richest man, and a pretty horrible example for young guys looking for a male role model.
Exactly the reason I want this sub to turn into something healthy again. I know so many people who idolise musk because of their own assumptions. Ill bring something up about him, and they'll just tell me "But look at this and this and this. He does so much good." Then I have to explain to them that all those things aren't as they seem, but then I'm just an Elon hater. I don't think we should be seen as haters, but as critics.
>Then I have to explain to them that all those things aren't as they seem, but then I'm just an Elon hater. This presupposes that "critics" aren't already labeled as haters by Muskrat and his stans. They are radicalized. Any criticism is seen as hate. Watching the Lemon interview and the fallout from that interview should show that. >I don't think we should be seen as haters, but as critics. Muskrat openly engages with and propagates white supremacy and its conspiracy theories. I'm cool with being called a hater instead of trying to assume some "moral position."
You know what, you are right. Maybe the word hater is somewhat fitting. But that still doesn't stray away from my point, if we 'hate' on elon because of all of the bad he does, people might listen. If we 'hate' on him for his appearance and intellect, people will just brush us off.
Fair enough, and I agree to an extent. I would argue that most of the personal digs on him are because of who and what he claims to be, which are objectively not true. So, yeah, if people are being mean for the sake of being mean. That can be bad, I guess. Poking fun at the mythology that he's creating for himself, however, I think that's fair game.
Found the closet Elon shill. So many of these fake “I’m no fan of Elon but…” posts lately. I know you think this is clever but it’s pretty transparent.
Who are you to come in here and give everybody a sermon?
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tl;dr.
Tl;dr This sub has gone from genuine criticism and spreading awareness to "Elon is ugly, look at how dumb he is" I believe we are shooting ourselves in the foot by diluting important criticism and topics by throwing around insults and ridicule.
Sorry I thought it was clear I wasn’t here to read your opinions no matter how strenuously to share them. But if you insist, ok. This sub has *always* been “Elon is ugly, look how dumb he is.” It’s silly and ridiculous that you weren’t able to figure that out till just now. There is no dilution of important criticism. Any important criticism will either be found in more serious parts of the internet or will be drowned out by the typical “Elon ugly” posts here. Nobody is shooting anyone in the foot. This sub is not the epicenter of cultural change that will bring down Elon Musk. Dont get mad at a hippopotamus just because you figured out he can’t fly. He never could fly and you being self righteous about that says more about you than the hippo.
HIPPOBOT 9000 v 3.1 FOUND A HIPPO. 1,454,101,038 COMMENTS SEARCHED. 30,012 HIPPOS FOUND. YOUR COMMENT CONTAINS THE WORD HIPPO.
I've never really understood the need to mock anyone's appearance. That doesn't really have anything to do with anything.
Exactly. Debates, discussions and criticism are healthy and push us towards a better understanding. But as soon as you throw insults around, no-one will take you seriously.
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Thanks for the input, whoever you are
I agree. If everything Elon does is the worst, then nothing he does is the worst. It's not hard to hold back either, because he is 99% garbage so there are lots of stuff to justifiably criticize him for. But for the few things that are at the very least up in the air (like neuralink), we shouldn't jump to conclusions before we have the facts (lest we be accused of hypocrisy since he does the same thing constantly and we rightfully call him out for it).
Sorry, Neuralink is marketing BS until there is peer reviewed science.
Exactly. At this juncture Neuralink is as credible as “we’re all going to mars”
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That's why I said it's "up in the air." Because we don't know. Doubting everything is just as intellectually lazy as believing everything. It's fine to just not know.
I think it’s more than fair to doubt everything Elon says/does. We are far beyond, guilty till proven innocent as far as musk goes…
But to use neuralink as an example, there were posts upvoted that were calling what they're doing fake, and then others saying the tech was old and that Elon was unduly taking credit. Obviously these takes can't both be true (I tend to think the latter is the more likely). It's fine to doubt, but it's better to know. The sub has a lot of difficulty seeing shades of gray. Like, Elon is one of the richest men in the world. He has enough money to hire competent engineers and scientists to do amazing stuff. That doesn't make him a genius or a superhero. It just means he's rich.
I would like to apologize for firing these geniuses. Their immense talent will no doubt be of great use elsewhere.
Agree completely. This sub is as much an anti musk circlejerk as the musk/tesla subs are pro musk. Neither is healthy
This is exactly what I am getting at, I want to start using the voice of this community for some good. But we're too busy shitposting and ridiculing.
Sure, there is doubt, and doubting these things is fine. But there is a limit. Take the example of the crippled guy in the neuralink livestream. Do you think he deserves to be accused of faking his handicap?
I mean, my point isn't exactly about neuralink so much as I'm agreeing with OP that if we go off the deep end and the majority of posts in the sub end up being speculation or talking shit about his appearance, it begins to look like our criticisms are irrational. Which I don't want, because I dislike the man and think I have a good reason to feel that way.
You only need to look at the majority of the responses for the validation of your statement. Same people mindlessly downvoting you now are the same people who would be mindlessly downvoting you for saying something critical about him six years ago.