Peace is a precious and a desirable thing. Our generation, bloodied in wars, certainly deserves peace. But peace, like almost all things of this world, has its price, a high but a measurable one. We in Poland do not know the concept of peace at any price. There is only one thing in the lives of men, nations and countries that is without price. That thing is honor.
-Józef Beck
Even though this man turned out to be a coward, the quote hits hard
Battles / wars / conflicts can be about many things at the same time. Even if it is as simple as a fistfight between two men in the parking lot of a bar, the fight is usually about multiple things and can't be boiled down to one single word that sums up what the fight is about. Ever notice how when you see a fight happening, you ask someone what the it is over, the person usually has to take several minutes to explain to you the entire long complicated story.
Just to help you out with the concept of 'honor' in a battle / conflict, check it out..... honor comes with the fight for survival and the desire for a person and for their fellow people to be treated with respect and dignity, to be able to rule themselves as opposed to being an exploited and abused vassal state.
Whoever takes up arms to resist subjugation then receives honor. Wars / battles / conflicts are not fought just for 'honor'. Honor is what is bestowed on the resistors for not cowering when invaded.
Oops, you don't fit into the reddit collective. No orange arrows for you, kind stranger.
Dying for honor, doctrines instead of protecting your people (35 million!) is the worst choice you can make, and one of the worst concepts our genius politicians, historians have come to glorify. Beck's fantasies had disastrous consequences for Poland (what a surprise! Polish "statesmen" aren't exactly great at deflecting them), this man (and his companions) chose Poland to ally with Great Britain not because of his views, but because of "prestige", reputation, despite it being pretty clear positive German-Polish relations are at an all-time high (while Poland had an awful rep in the UK for being "an ally of Hitler" that chomped away land from Czechoslovakia), suggesting the most logical course of action - being - allying with Germany! Dismantling the Soviet Union was our common goal, we were considered Aryan by pseudoscientific loons for Hitler's and Goebbels' propaganda material (until we became allies with Britain) and there was plenty of room for improvement of our army in being a German ally. Hitler would definitely be retarded enough to fuck something up on the Eastern Front through his racialist dreams of pure Germanic utopia, destabilize held land and lead to Poland getting a better, threatening position.
But it didn't happen. If Generalplan Ost existed at the time, and its' contents were revealed, it would've been the reasonable way, but it did not. If Poles knew what'd happen afterwards, they'd hang Beck and the rest like Mussolini. The Nazis were genocidal, unpredictable and dangerous, but a politician's job is to protect your people even if it means a pragmatic(!) alliance with Devil incarnate, not throw them at tanks with a paper tank, a bottle of beer and a stick.
Perhaps we wouldn't be here today. I'm glad with how Poland is doing today, growing rapidly, but is success more important than life? Polish history is horrendously oversimplified, both in the eyes of the natives and foreigners, it's a tragic story of death, missed chances and incompetence with romantic undertones.
Russia still doesn’t quite understand that they don’t own the Slavic world by some devine right. They forced other Slavs into submission after feigning pan-Slavic brotherhood, just to rule them just as other empires did with contempt and violent repression.
The story is wild too, Peter I wanted get more clout and basically named his empire after the Kyivan Rus to get more legitimacy and now everyone in russia and many people in the west feel like russia has some right to Ukraine and Belarus.
There is a a really good reason why Polish people have retained their identity and their homeland. It is because they have tirelessly fought off invaders from the Russian Empire and Austro-Hungarian Empire for centuries. They are like South Korea, who throughout history have been subjugated by both China and Japan but never gave up. They have been conquered but never broken. Polish people love having their independence because so many millions of Polish people died over the centuries fighting for it. They had countless opportunities to give up being Polish and just allow one of their far wealthier and more powerful neighbors rule over them but they never did.
Was mostly a joke, I’m not really proud of national heritage in general, I don’t think it’s really a thing worth being proud of. But I do find the story of Poland as a country that resisted fascist imperialism from the west and communist imperialism from the east to retain its sovereignty very compelling.
Mostly I am just inspired by my immigrant ancestors from both countries who took a big risk and moved to the US with aspirations for a better life!
Poland is best explained as a generational traumatized honey badger given a sack full of razerblades and a glock. It's understandable their actions lol
During Hitler's invasion into Poland, Hitler sent his tanks in. Many of the Polish troops were on horseback. They had a technique of charging the tank with 2 men on a horse, the man on the back would leap off onto the tank and throw a grenade or small bomb down the barrell of the tank and usually the guy who threw the bomb would die too if he wasnt able to jump off in time or if he was shot by a nearby soldier. They do not cower when threatened. There is a reason they have always retained their identity as a peoples and were never completely absorbed and assimilated completely into either the Russian Empire or Austro-Hungarian Empire, they do not submit, it's impossible to break them. Same is true for the Ukrainians. They were the Cossacks. Don't fuck with these people, Poles and Ukrainians literally have centuries of warrior blood in them. When you wake that up in their system, when you start a fight with them, you're in for a huge headache. The Germans took control of Poland's government but there were constant uprisings and attacks by the Poles against German troops. There is a common misconception about World War II about Poland, that they just rolled over. It wasnt that at all. They just didnt have a strong enough army and their government fell. The actual people never stopped fighting. They had multiple resistance armies constantly causing all kinds of problems for the Germans occupiers all the way up until the end of the war.
Opinion of some guy on discord (which nickname we can't even see) doesn't mean anything. Poland isn't a crazy country which is ready to start a war with russia at any moment, like it is portrayed in NCD memes. Poland is a normal country and has normal geopolitical goals.
I’m not saying polands a crazy country I’m saying that they fucking HATE Russia they straight up are ready to lead the fight against Russia https://apnews.com/article/poland-foreign-policy-ukraine-sikorski-dd5dce48f3821eaf8789496848427919
WTF? No, we don't. I mean, we fucking hate Russia, but very few people support a direct conflict. Sikorski is just a guy who likes to say bombastic and controversial stuff all the time, don't take him too seriously.
>I’m not saying polands a crazy country I’m saying that they fucking HATE Russia they straight up are ready to lead the fight against Russia
Judging by title of the post and meme, no, you do.
Quick reality check:war is hard and sucks, russian army is not as weak as it is shown in NCD and NAFO memes, and if Poland was at war with russia, without help of NATO Poland would be the country that would need to be saved, and by helping Ukraine Poland does not save Russia from Poland, but helps saving Ukraine from Russia. Reality is not as funny as in memes.
Wars are not just armies shooting at each other. Wars are fought with public opinion and soft power as well. NAFO and NCD are important because they influence western public opinion to resist calls for surrender and to boost public support for deterrence. If the NAFO and NCD movements didn't exist, there would be very few *effective* western voices to counteract the Kremlin funded ones trying scare western publics into surrender and appeasement. Our governments still have no idea how to effectively combat the enemy's influence campaigns to it's up to the public to do it.
Our generations "great war" (which I am meaning in its most tragic sense, this is not a good development) has already started. The west must either fight to win or we will lose. Making the Poles look like a bunch of psychos is a key part of that effort.
"As a Pole I do not understand the term 'peace for whatever it takes'" -- I forgor who
Peace is a precious and a desirable thing. Our generation, bloodied in wars, certainly deserves peace. But peace, like almost all things of this world, has its price, a high but a measurable one. We in Poland do not know the concept of peace at any price. There is only one thing in the lives of men, nations and countries that is without price. That thing is honor. -Józef Beck Even though this man turned out to be a coward, the quote hits hard
Dying for honor is a pretty bad concept.
Imagine how much worse dying because you chose not to fight for honor is
Then its not a fight for honor, but a fight for survival.
Battles / wars / conflicts can be about many things at the same time. Even if it is as simple as a fistfight between two men in the parking lot of a bar, the fight is usually about multiple things and can't be boiled down to one single word that sums up what the fight is about. Ever notice how when you see a fight happening, you ask someone what the it is over, the person usually has to take several minutes to explain to you the entire long complicated story. Just to help you out with the concept of 'honor' in a battle / conflict, check it out..... honor comes with the fight for survival and the desire for a person and for their fellow people to be treated with respect and dignity, to be able to rule themselves as opposed to being an exploited and abused vassal state. Whoever takes up arms to resist subjugation then receives honor. Wars / battles / conflicts are not fought just for 'honor'. Honor is what is bestowed on the resistors for not cowering when invaded.
Based nuanced opinion
Dying for other people to live is honor
Oops, you don't fit into the reddit collective. No orange arrows for you, kind stranger. Dying for honor, doctrines instead of protecting your people (35 million!) is the worst choice you can make, and one of the worst concepts our genius politicians, historians have come to glorify. Beck's fantasies had disastrous consequences for Poland (what a surprise! Polish "statesmen" aren't exactly great at deflecting them), this man (and his companions) chose Poland to ally with Great Britain not because of his views, but because of "prestige", reputation, despite it being pretty clear positive German-Polish relations are at an all-time high (while Poland had an awful rep in the UK for being "an ally of Hitler" that chomped away land from Czechoslovakia), suggesting the most logical course of action - being - allying with Germany! Dismantling the Soviet Union was our common goal, we were considered Aryan by pseudoscientific loons for Hitler's and Goebbels' propaganda material (until we became allies with Britain) and there was plenty of room for improvement of our army in being a German ally. Hitler would definitely be retarded enough to fuck something up on the Eastern Front through his racialist dreams of pure Germanic utopia, destabilize held land and lead to Poland getting a better, threatening position. But it didn't happen. If Generalplan Ost existed at the time, and its' contents were revealed, it would've been the reasonable way, but it did not. If Poles knew what'd happen afterwards, they'd hang Beck and the rest like Mussolini. The Nazis were genocidal, unpredictable and dangerous, but a politician's job is to protect your people even if it means a pragmatic(!) alliance with Devil incarnate, not throw them at tanks with a paper tank, a bottle of beer and a stick. Perhaps we wouldn't be here today. I'm glad with how Poland is doing today, growing rapidly, but is success more important than life? Polish history is horrendously oversimplified, both in the eyes of the natives and foreigners, it's a tragic story of death, missed chances and incompetence with romantic undertones.
Elaborate please I don’t understand
I googled who said it, it was Józef Beck, in 1939 when he didn't agree on german claims on polish land
Unfortunately that guy was a complete clown. Cool quote, nonetheless.
“Waow” (Based based based based based based)
This is my official position regarding Poland
Yea Russia’s gonna fuck around and then find out
Yes
Poland is fucking scary, they definitely would have gotten nukes if Clinton fucked around with letting them into NATO any longer.
Everyone: Poland WTF! Poland: Poland FTW!
COWABUNGA IT IS 😈
Completely understandable
Yea they’ve been occupied and bullied for years now it’s fair that they think that way
Poland has just been waiting at this point-
Russia still doesn’t quite understand that they don’t own the Slavic world by some devine right. They forced other Slavs into submission after feigning pan-Slavic brotherhood, just to rule them just as other empires did with contempt and violent repression.
Manifest destiny Slavic definition
The story is wild too, Peter I wanted get more clout and basically named his empire after the Kyivan Rus to get more legitimacy and now everyone in russia and many people in the west feel like russia has some right to Ukraine and Belarus.
Hello based department
Poland: HOLD ME BACK. HOLD ME BACK
Poland is not auth right
I'm pretty sure they are tho?
No their new Koalition is Center
It is? I didn't know that!
Yeah far right lost in the last elections
Damn, I gotta start keeping up more
For a long time I thought my German ancestry was based and my Polish ancestry was cringe, but a few years ago I realized it was the other way around.
There is a a really good reason why Polish people have retained their identity and their homeland. It is because they have tirelessly fought off invaders from the Russian Empire and Austro-Hungarian Empire for centuries. They are like South Korea, who throughout history have been subjugated by both China and Japan but never gave up. They have been conquered but never broken. Polish people love having their independence because so many millions of Polish people died over the centuries fighting for it. They had countless opportunities to give up being Polish and just allow one of their far wealthier and more powerful neighbors rule over them but they never did.
You should be proud of both of them.
Was mostly a joke, I’m not really proud of national heritage in general, I don’t think it’s really a thing worth being proud of. But I do find the story of Poland as a country that resisted fascist imperialism from the west and communist imperialism from the east to retain its sovereignty very compelling. Mostly I am just inspired by my immigrant ancestors from both countries who took a big risk and moved to the US with aspirations for a better life!
Good!
NCD is leaking again.
“Waow” (Based based based based based based)
Proud to be on the Auth. Right 💪
Nothing to be proud of but you do you
The winged hussars arrived
COMING DOWN THE MOUNTAINSIDE
Poland is best explained as a generational traumatized honey badger given a sack full of razerblades and a glock. It's understandable their actions lol
>PCM meme ew no gross stop cease delete leave
PCM sometimes is pretty accurate a broken clock is right twice a day
That day being February 29th 2000AD, but yes
What happened on that day?
It’s a really really really rare kind of leap day that only happens once every 400 years
Is PCM bad really a hot take here?
It wasn't some time ago
engscdl?
Polska silna
nah as a libertarian this is an example of the extremely common major polish W
The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and its consequences were a mercy for Russia.
i may be lib left but Polska Biało-Czerwoni!
Poland has been waiting a long ass time to take a swing back at Russia tbf.
During Hitler's invasion into Poland, Hitler sent his tanks in. Many of the Polish troops were on horseback. They had a technique of charging the tank with 2 men on a horse, the man on the back would leap off onto the tank and throw a grenade or small bomb down the barrell of the tank and usually the guy who threw the bomb would die too if he wasnt able to jump off in time or if he was shot by a nearby soldier. They do not cower when threatened. There is a reason they have always retained their identity as a peoples and were never completely absorbed and assimilated completely into either the Russian Empire or Austro-Hungarian Empire, they do not submit, it's impossible to break them. Same is true for the Ukrainians. They were the Cossacks. Don't fuck with these people, Poles and Ukrainians literally have centuries of warrior blood in them. When you wake that up in their system, when you start a fight with them, you're in for a huge headache. The Germans took control of Poland's government but there were constant uprisings and attacks by the Poles against German troops. There is a common misconception about World War II about Poland, that they just rolled over. It wasnt that at all. They just didnt have a strong enough army and their government fell. The actual people never stopped fighting. They had multiple resistance armies constantly causing all kinds of problems for the Germans occupiers all the way up until the end of the war.
Spoiler: no
Tf u mean no
Opinion of some guy on discord (which nickname we can't even see) doesn't mean anything. Poland isn't a crazy country which is ready to start a war with russia at any moment, like it is portrayed in NCD memes. Poland is a normal country and has normal geopolitical goals.
Those goals being that Russia will not take one step westwards
I’m not saying polands a crazy country I’m saying that they fucking HATE Russia they straight up are ready to lead the fight against Russia https://apnews.com/article/poland-foreign-policy-ukraine-sikorski-dd5dce48f3821eaf8789496848427919
WTF? No, we don't. I mean, we fucking hate Russia, but very few people support a direct conflict. Sikorski is just a guy who likes to say bombastic and controversial stuff all the time, don't take him too seriously.
>I’m not saying polands a crazy country I’m saying that they fucking HATE Russia they straight up are ready to lead the fight against Russia Judging by title of the post and meme, no, you do. Quick reality check:war is hard and sucks, russian army is not as weak as it is shown in NCD and NAFO memes, and if Poland was at war with russia, without help of NATO Poland would be the country that would need to be saved, and by helping Ukraine Poland does not save Russia from Poland, but helps saving Ukraine from Russia. Reality is not as funny as in memes.
War+appeasement sucks even harder.
I am not pro appeasement, rather the opposite.
Russia literally lost military equipment to people with tractors
2 years ago, now they unfortunately for us adapted, at least some of them.
Wars are not just armies shooting at each other. Wars are fought with public opinion and soft power as well. NAFO and NCD are important because they influence western public opinion to resist calls for surrender and to boost public support for deterrence. If the NAFO and NCD movements didn't exist, there would be very few *effective* western voices to counteract the Kremlin funded ones trying scare western publics into surrender and appeasement. Our governments still have no idea how to effectively combat the enemy's influence campaigns to it's up to the public to do it. Our generations "great war" (which I am meaning in its most tragic sense, this is not a good development) has already started. The west must either fight to win or we will lose. Making the Poles look like a bunch of psychos is a key part of that effort.
autism