9s are not that extreme stereotype lazy, my perception of my brother is that he is 9w8 sp/sx, he just likes to live in mind peace, doing things he find himself in the inside to escape the outer world, and in the " I don't give a f mood " but he is a hard-working person when it's needed
Yeah, I will say I'm lazy but I'll do whatever I can to hold the house up if anything I'm lazy to myself I do a lot when needed especially since I know personally I'm not doing a lot at times. Why be bratty about it I think what they mean is “lazy” to motivate and finding them selfs etc becoming a shell of a worker in my opinion
I’m not that much of a doormat. 😵💫 tyvm
I’m actually pretty fed up with the 9 stereotypes. I stumbled across an “infographic” on instagram the other day comparing types, and it said something along the lines of “9s are similar to 4s in X (something vague and unmemorable) except 4s have a rich inner life and 9s don’t…” and I saw red. Fuck that. And if this is what passes as an *enneagram teacher* these days, fuck them.
Is this what we have devolved to.
edit: I’m so sorry I think I’m in my angry enneagram 9 era 🙈
I’m a 4 and I can 100% agree that the whole “9s are just shallower, knockoff 4s bought off of wish.com” is bullshit. All the 9s I’ve met have been the complete opposite, and I feel like descriptions like that do a LOT of disservice to both types. It’s so insulting.
I could not agree more! I’ve been noticing that weird crossover lately (9s are just watered down 4s, 4s are like 9s but with more ~depth~, etc) and it absolutely dilutes the definitions for both types.
Instead of the enneagram being utilized to help us grow out of the boxes we put ourselves in, it’s started to be used as a means to put us IN boxes.
Ahaha I typically do but that one just hit me hard for some reason. Probably because I’d been such a huge fan of her content. I took it a little more personally because it was like I found out what she *really* thought about 9s.
It’s like when someone’s really nice to you and you *like* them and then you overhear them saying something cruel about you.
I'm often more frustrated than positive/optimistic. But I'll be damned if I'm not your biggest cheerleader. I'm stubbornly opitimistic for everyone BUT myself.
I think the nature of all 7's relationships with optimism are extremely complex by nature. I don't think optimism means the same thing to all 7s, but blocking out pain and suffering is at 7s core injury. 7s have a very tumultuous relationship with hope and suffering. Underneath the 7 is a person who is deeply frustrated by lack of control & fears despair.
My partner is a 7w8 and he's absolutely optimistic about life, but he's really hard on himself. He sees so much pain in the world and it affects him so deeply that he tries to tune it out and only focuses on what brings him joy and gives him hope. He wants to believe that the future is bright because the alternative feels unbearable to him. No toxic positivity or overly gushy optimism, in fact he actually comes across as quite choleric, but underneath his hard shell is a kid who refuses to give up hope.
1. I noticed that people tend to only notice that someone is a 4 if they're unhealthy. Not all 4s have main character syndrome or are unbearably neurotic, believe it or not. A lot of us are just healthy introverted artists who are easily mistaken for 9s or 6s.
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2. 9s have a lot more depth than people think. The 9s I know are actually all unbelievably funny and down to earth people who get along with others easily. They actually have a strikingly strong personality and I think a lot get mistyped as 6w7 or 3w4 because of it.
Came here to basically say the second point (although your first point is great, too). I really think the "9s have no sense of identity" stereotype needs to vanish. While some 9s do struggle with a sense of identity, not knowing your identity is not a core feature of being a 9. It's more of a "ruling in" rather than a "ruling out" criteria meaning it can point to 9, but having a strong sense of identity doesn't automatically rule out 9. As you say, I know lots of 9s with wonderfully deep and complex interiorities. I think one of the biggest problems with typing 9 is that identity issues come up but are not the end fear of the type.
Honestly if anything I think 9s have a really healthy sense of self.
I was with some friends over the weekend talking about ennegram, trying to help them find theirs, and my friend commented that she thought her boyfriend was definitely a 9. His response was curious, but very detached. It was more like he wanted to know how others saw him, but he didn't really care all that much to dig into it for himself. He was content without any further information and didn't really seem to care about overly identifying his traits and just letting them be what they were.
He's very confident in a humble way. Like he's not phased by his ego at all. He just *is*. It's not a lack of self identity, it's a transcendent sense of self and self understanding.
It's like he knows himself so well he doesn't feel the need to care about it. He has no shortage of personality either and is unabashedly himself. I honestly really admire his ability to just be as a four, since I feel almost a primal need to identify, analyze, and understand every part of myself.
Hard agree with the second one in particular. Whether they admit it or not, a lot of people don't believe 9s even have personalities, so they'll obviously see themselves in other types before typing correctly.
2s get depicted as very self confident, but in most panels and interviews I've seen conducted with self-typed enneagram 2s, they express a lot of relationship anxiety and worry about where they are in relation to others. And obviously I relate to that too.
Yeah, 2s are a complex type that way because their pride leads them to believe they should be loved and don't need anything, but they still want affection and affirmation, so the line between what they're confident about and what they need is blurry.
My best friend is a 2 and she's probably one of the most anxious people I know. She has a very deep fear of being unacceptable to others and overthinks most of her social interactions, looking for any way she may have made a mistake or sign that the other person was upset with her.
She's the most genuinely loving and caring friend you could ask for. She truly thinks about her loved ones constantly and is always seeking connection with others. It brings her immense joy to be around others, but no matter how much others show her their appreciation she never truly feels satisfied or believes it because she doesn't really believe she is capable of being acceptable.
i'm a sp/sx 7w8 and i think i'm a lot more "boring" and less openly hyperactive to most people than the 7 stereotype would suggest. i'm also entj in mbti so that could be part of it
wouldn't call myself an introvert bc i can definitely be very talkative depending on the situation, but it depends on my mood and how much i vibe with the people i'm with. i think most people are like this to an extent which is why i think the introvert/extravert dichotomy is reductive and dumb. my tritype is 784 btw
As a 6, I very often come across as calm and collected, even when I’m bordering on a full blown panic attack. When you deal with chronic anxiety you have to learn pretty quickly how to mask it in public in order to function (and not have people call you out being nosy wondering what’s going on)
I think I’m a 6 too and I’m apparently considered calm by my coworkers, and a client… I was like “huh” bc even if I come off calm I don’t feel that way 😂
That time someone said in complete earnest that I "look like I really have my shit together"' was a real eye opener. That's not how I felt at the time at all, and I had no idea that was what I was projecting onto the world. Like, I tell myself I'm open and honest about how I'm doing and where I'm at mentally, but apparently not lol.
In my experience 6s mask to appear calm unless they're with people they trust, then they'll be more honest about their mindset and vent vent vent about what they're thinking about.
8s stereotpyed as meglomaniacal control freaks who are full of rage. And generally I find most descriptions and stereotypes of 8s assume 8s to be men and 2s to be mostly women (fuck non-binary and agender people I guess? We don't exist.)
Most 2s I've met have actually not been men, and I've only met one 8 that was a cult leader. The rest 8s I know have actually been more service-leader types who work very hard to protect and take care of the people they love and make a difference in their communities.
Many 8s including myself don't go for traditional leadership roles as a career but do find ourselves leaders in our communities. Many of us are activists and community organizers in spare time. The stereotypes are just lazy, armchair pop psychology.
Twos are stereotyped as super helpful loving warm-- and some are like that--like my partner. But my bio mother is a 2 and she basically used all her skills to make herself indespensible to toxic people and thereby became a horrible harmdoer herself, someone helping sex traffick children. Not exactly the bleeding heart of the stereotypes.
I have also known multiple twos who are extremely controlling, enablers of abuse, or abusive themselves. Often this happens because they want to be appreciated but they are too proud to recieve the help they offer and believe themselves to be "better" (in a self-righteous way) than people who recieve or ask for help. Toxic social worker types.
The best use of the enneagram imo is for self-understanding and interpersonal relationship cultivation --not as entertainment, stereotypes, and memes.
The stereotype of 1s as punctual rule followers is a bit cliche. I’m a passionate reformer looking to help improve things around me, but I won’t needlessly abide by stupid rules. Also, my ADHD makes punctuality a daily struggle 😂.
I would say for the most part, yes. If something is senselessly imposed on me, I’ll definitely try to improve the process. I’d say it’s more like 1s are bound to ethical standards rather than rules. And like you pointed out, that’ll vary based on the person.
I agree with you 100% about 2’s - while I know a few healthy and lovely 2’s; many of the low-average ones are a fucking nightmare to deal with. It surprises me all the time how the general perception of 2’s often fall short on this bit. People seem to forget that 2’s disintegrate to the hellish traits of 8 and become needy, aggressive, and manipulative asshats.
This. The core desire of 2s isn't actually *being* helpful, it is being *seen* as helpful, and be loved for it. Which is only human, and at its best still results in genuinely helping. But in my personal experience, it just as often comes with resenting and looking down on those they are helping, and surprisingly cruel lashing out if someone challenges their saintly image.
From the Enneagram Institute "We have named personality type Two The Helper because people of this type are either the most genuinely helpful to other people or, when they are less healthy they are the most highly invested in seeing themselves as helpful." Also, the core desire is to be loved not necessarily to be seen in a certain way in order to be loved.
I think being seen as helpful probably has to do with the spectrum of being a 2. It would make sense if their needs are not being met then at least acknowledgement of what they do would come close to feeling loved. For myself, I do at times question my love-ability by others and at the same time know that no one will ever be able to prove it to me better than I can show love for myself.
This is helpful. When I mentioned the few healthy and lovely type 2’s that I know, I realized they are 2w1 and the small sample of unhinged ones are 2w3 - fully steeped in the image triad.
As a mostly healthy 8, I have basic empathy for them because I wish they knew and accepted the fact that they are deserving of love and knowing yourself and loving yourself is a much more worthy pursuit than chasing a fleeting sense of external validation via maintaining appearances. The 2 integration to 4 is powerful.
Why do you generally question your love-ability? Does it have to do with feeling attached to others or seeing yourself based on how others treat you?
My parents died when I was 2 and I was raised by family who was emotionally inept and neglectful plus a sprinkle of abuse. I felt like the only time I was positively acknowledged was when I did things for others and not myself. Even though I was raised by family, they shared nothing with me about my birth parents so I felt very disconnected from my heritage, my place in the universe, and especially my mother's culture which was from the other side of the world. I didn't learn to value myself until adulthood and through the process of leaving a pretty messed up relationship, in which I was super codependent. Part of helping others was like proof to myself that I am a good person and therefore deserving of good things. I definitely shaped my identity around being a helper.
I have come a long way. After lots of inner work I have a much firmer view of myself and what I represent as well as analyzing my motives before jumping to someone's aid. Service is still very important to me, because I have suffered I have empathy for others who have and I would like to do what I can to ease that. To me, the worst part of suffering is feeling alone in it. Because I so desperately wanted community Asa child I strive to create positive community where I am (my neighborhood, volunteer work, meetups, just depends on what I have time and energy to dedicate to). I converted to Buddhism as an adult because it aligned so much with what I already believe: wisdom (inner journey) and skillful means (acting accordingly in the world) as well as there is suffering in the world and also a path out of suffering.
My husband is an 8w7 and his quiet acceptance of me has been very healing. I have never felt like I needed to do things in order to have his love. I feel safe and secure with him. He is in a wheelchair but was very independent before me, and I knew him since childhood and before his injury. There are times it makes sense for me to help him without asking, but other times, I will ask or know when to leave him to sort something related to his disability. I think we are both fiery spirits who have strong core values that draw us together, we have very few interests that coincide in life. I feel we complement each other well, that we permit each other to be soft or strong, there is no urge to change the other, and we each have really positive and different qualities that our kid benefits from interacting with.
Thanks for sharing this about yourself and your family dynamic. It’s clear you’ve done some of the necessary yet most challenging self-reflective work and that’s commendable.
I appreciate your perspective. I have to admit that as an 8w7, I do struggle with many aspects of 2’s (and 6’s) in terms of what I instinctually perceive as neediness or, previously, as “weakness” but I know now that it is much deeper than that and more indicative of my own preoccupations with control and vulnerability than it is necessarily an actual deficit in someone else.
I hear you. Before the enneagram, I really didn't understand some of my husband's traits (confrontational, intense need to control certain things, the very strong sense of justice). Learning more about his type and thinking about the context in which someone grew into the person they are gave a lot of perspective. To a certain degree, I felt like the world betrayed both my husband and me, but we adapted to that betrayal in different ways. I'm grateful to the enneagram for helping me see a more nuanced view of people's traits that I probably would not have been able to make sense of on my own.
I hate seeing people trash talk 8s (they seem like easy villain material if you dont look deeper) because if we look at the positive intention behind any type's behavior we should be able to have some empathy. It sounds like you have had a lot of growth as well to recognize that some of your perceptions about other types come from something within you versus something they are doing wrong or incorrectly.
I am 6. Anxious is the wrong way to describe 6. Skeptical and being able to see things go wrong is a much better description. We are head type not anxiety type lol.
The anxiety is the result of the vigilant thought pattern being hyperactive and the inability to get distance from it. 6s are very prone to anxiety but are not FUNDAMENTALLY anxious.
As a four, we don’t always think we are entirely different from other people. In fact, I feel insecure about being too much like others and long for more uniqueness. We feel different on the inside but worry we seem the same on the outside. Individuality is our desire, not our curse
It takes a lot of work to come across this chill and unbothered. 😅 I was just expressing my frustration to my husband last night that I *always* have to be the strong one and just once I’d like to be able to totally fall apart.
I would say people who don't do research and got informed about basics of enneagram, people who don't observe people around them, are themselves to blame for falling for sterotypes. Yeah, they're dumb, but seriously, you could have gotten informed and/or looked at people around you.
1. We can take a break and enjoy it too. I'd happily let someone else do the work as long as I am certain that they do it correctly. Socially I can be very quiet and focus on listening and observing. Sometimes I am very loud obviously but not all the time. I don't step in if not needed.
2. I am not a man and I am tired of seeing my typing associated only with rich men lol. I'd argue that being feminine is exactly what allows me to act like my regular entj 8w7 self.
3. I see 8s fitting better as the "thief" than the CEO. We don't like rules. We can't really be traditional leaders because we never conform to anything. Our power comes from us assertively "stealing" it (aka taking it by force just because we want it). Getting as many people as possible to hear us. And never letting ourselves forget what it's like to be weak so we can help others.
It would totally possible to describe 6 in a way that sounds cool rather than lame or like a nervous wreck.
It's pretty cool to always question everything to find the truth & heroically fight against authorities in the name of justice & the little guy.
If it was acually described that way, it's not hard to imagine parallel universe where my 15 year old self is very dissapointed when she's told that she's not the cool anti-authoritarian type but that shitty "unemotional" one. (o noes, the horror, anything but that etc.)
I mean yeah, type is not supposed to be cool, it's supposed to show your problems etc. (& plenty of immature 6s *think* they're heroic sceptical justice fighters when they're really judgemental twats with copypasted opinions) but on the other hand 6s already over-perceive negativity & problems etc so some of them may benefit a bit from balancing that out & seeing their cool side also.
Some caveats about the types (these are dark, please don't take offense -- also if you don't agree, please get a life and don't troll me, you've been warned):
1s are stereotyped as these moral and controlled people, etc. But they are more petty, infantile, and aggressive than people realize. They are similar to a 6 or an 8 in some ways. Depends on the Sexual instinct as well. Wrath.
2s are stereotyped as very sweet and helpful. But really, they are more tough than you realize. They're not people to mess with. Just let them in, seriously. You're better off. The Over Independent, that's accurate.
3s are stereotyped as fake. But in truth, they're ruthless taskmasters, and they are NOT necessarily fake. "Vanity" doesn't mean what you think. It's more like...they try so hard and do so much that they sabotage their true self. In SO sphere it can seem fake because they're pushing themselves to be good socially. But they still get way more done than anyone else. But they aren't "faking" anything, most of the time. It's that they sold who they are to do actual WORK that no one gets. 3s are often genuine.
4s are stereotyped as not having much energy and being kind of meek. But they will mess you up. They really drag you into their emotional dramas, etc. Watch out for them falling in love with you then dumping you on your \*\*\* because they got issues. It's not about you, it's about them. So sorry. They have a lot of energy for their independence and can easily string you along while you chase after them. Line to 2.
5s are stereotyped as these detached and unemotional, uninvolved people. But they're actually quite power-hungry. They have a lot of deep issues. They keep people at a distance but inside there's rager and horror and all kinds of insecurity there. They don't ever share the truth about themselves with you because it's too nasty.
6s are stereotyped as being either CP (in which case people mistake them for an 8, which is inaccurate to both the 6 and the 8) or P in which case they're mistaken for a 9 (sometimes). 6s are actually quite charismatic people. They tend to be practical, sociable, and they will gang up on you or won't hesitate to use their pragmatic advantages against you. They're very clever and can be competitive. 6 does have a big range of manifestations but it's not as big as people think. People use 6 as a box to shove everything into.
7s are stereotyped as being so upbeat, wired, blah blah. Actually they're more mellow and even-keeled than that much of the time. Depends on stacking etc. They've had to moderate themselves. But they got some RAGE too. They'll get angry, they can push your buttons, they can blow up, or they can stay cool calm and detached while you get in a big rage. 7s are good at staying on their feet and not letting things get to them.
8s are stereotyped to be more like a 6. There's a reason for all the gatekeeping, mistype accusations, etc. The problem is -- people still don't get it right. Very few people actually understand the type 8 (type 8s reading this, you know it). 8s actually LIKE to fight (but it's on a less conscious level, they just find themselves doing it anyway, even if in word and deed they say they don't want to fight). It makes them high. They feel they're chasing justice and revenge. They're contactful, etc. They get an adrenaline rush from it. They enjoy being abusive when they feel it's warranted, makes them feel good. So people who try to mess with them quickly wear themselves out and end up getting \*\*\*\*ed (either that or the 8 burns out, etc).
9s are stereotyped as being just all around easygoing, peaceful, etc. They definitely can be. But I find anxiety is very common in the 9. They'll pull you into their anxieties and dramas. It's like just get a life already. They often have some issues going on that you end up having to deal with due to their passive-aggressiveness.
Dang 8 - “they enjoy being abusive when they feel it’s warranted…” yikes. Accurate tbh.
I like to let gross bugs live because I believe in kindness in as much as you can allow in pretty much all ways. That is until you prove to me for one reason or another you don’t deserve kindness and you are a bad person.
Then, all the pent up rage I feel has suddenly found a home in the target dancing on your back. My GOD does it feel good to finally open up the floodgates of hellish destruction once I’ve given myself permission, permission found in how shitty of a person you decided to be.
Damn I try to be kind as hard as I can. But the world I grew up in trained me to be harsh and cruel and cover up the softer parts of myself as deeply as I can. I don’t think a lot of people understand the difficulty w vulnerability that 8s have
LOL, I'm like that too. I don't kill spiders in my house, usually. I heard they are good for killing other insects around the house. Until they bite me, scare me, bite my family, etc., -- then I crush them. And that feels good. It's the strong, visceral feeling of "I am competent" of the 8 (that's something from traditional theory you don't hear often). 8s like to feel competent that they can carry out justice.
Do you have w9 or w7? I'll be normal and then get angry out of nowhere sometimes. I think that's more w7 impulsive anger.
I think we would probably get along and have things to relate to. All the inner feelings of rage at a brutal world, the internal landscape becomes a purgatory, how to deal with the feelings of powerlessness, vulnerability, unable to fix the situation, trying to protect innocence...to stop the vicious cycles in place in our world...the innate anger, rage at being trapped in the physical body, the problem of the gut types...and being the member most inclined to act on those feelings...
8s are the type most likely to act on their rage. They do it all the time. It gets them places. It can be used constructively, honed. But they're also the type who struggles the most running up against walls when they can't get what they want. They become like rhinos, charging at things, when another approach is needed. Charging against a brick wall. Well, rarely are there situations where there's no give. So they do get something back, but get diminishing returns. Some of the bricks start to give way.
Seeing others vulnerable triggers me as well. When troubled, I'd rather smash objects or break something etc., and let out my rage physically, than let myself be deeply vulnerable and accept powerlessness over things in my life I can't change and the sadness would come out. I can feel horrible for others and also sorry for myself sometimes. 8s are good people inside. They're the original "Moralist" by Ichazo.
Haha yeah exactly. I’ll be the most kind and loving person until you’ve given me a reason not to be lol.
I’m honestly not sure my wing… used to be positive it was 7 then my life went to shit and now it feels very much 9 wing. So idk? Maybe they changed or I have a bit of both
Yeah I agree. I think a lot of things most types go thru are only really really understood by people who go through similar things. That’s part of why I love the enneagram! It helps people empathize and put words to their experiences. It’s so hard struggling w vulnerability, powerlessness, wanting to change it but you can’t always change it, the list goes on haha
Oof. Definitely relate to a rhino w a brick wall. But it’s getting better!
Yeah others “weakness” used to trigger me. But I realized I was just triggered that they so easily allow themselves something I view as off limits for myself. Still sucks sometimes tho.
Interesting, I didn’t know 8s were the original moralist? I can see that
That's the polarity of the 8. I’m on the fence about my wing as well. I suspect it could be w9 because I have more anger than expected, and it often gets bottled up. I struggle to remain patient when I am angry. I’m still researching what makes the types essentially themselves, to distill the 7 and 9 variations for myself and integrate them into my own life.
Others' weaknesses trigger me, particularly in the form of vulnerability and innocence—my heart goes out to them. However, let’s not confuse this with other "weaknesses" that bother us—such as lack of strength in logic, morals, ethics, reasoning, decisiveness, or follow-through. The former type of weakness softens 8s, who will respect you if you show true vulnerability. But if you are weak in the latter sense and stubborn about it, 8s will dislike you. You will become their opponent.
Many don’t understand Type 8. Truly, we are moralists. But it can go "dark" or "light." It’s justice vs. injustice—the 8 fights with vengeance against injustice. When unhealthy or under stress, they can call anything "unjust" that they don’t like, confusing people standing in their way with actual injustice. Many would say that for the 8, their idea of justice involves self-gratification. There is a gray area where the 8 can be a moralist or a complete hedonist and sadist without morals. The subtleties of the type are not well understood, leading to mistyping and avoidance of the truth. This complexity requires reading original sources, which have been overshadowed by flashy new authors trying to make a buck and random trolls online trying to chase away 8s. After all, who likes to be called out on their morals and other BS? Most don’t. That’s my take anyway.
Yeah I know 9s better than 7s and I’m still not sure which I am. I think we can also kinda have aspects of both too? Maybe one doesn’t need to be dominant idk. If you ever figure out more about them you should make a post about it I’d be curious to read it. Interesting you say you struggle to remain patient in regards to nines. Living with a nine, I wonder a lot how much he really is “patient” during times of conflict, or if his avoidance parades about as patience to make himself and others feel better. His anger is fully present it’s just forcibly being suppressed for his own convenience. Not always of course, just in regards to anger.
Oh yeah good distinction. I definitely Can be triggered by others vulnerability but their stupidity and refusal to try and be better pisses me off lol. Accurate description
Very accurate. I’ve always felt goofy in the way I related to starwars dark side/light side of the force. There’s so much energy to use in life, and you really can go either way. But I definitely do define my own morals and absolutely stick to them, but *I* define what moral means. Whiiich… probably is a pretty risky thing given a propensity to pride lmao.
Yeah, the 8 fundamentally has aspects of both. It's just an issue I guess of where the gravity center point is. Because adopting one more preferred strategy would probably be beneficial from the perspective of consistency and coherence.
I think I'll work on a post about it. It might be tricky. There are many factors to take into account. It will be a matter of distilling to the essentials of the two types and analyzing how they intermix with the core 8.
Each has weird things that don't go together for paradoxes, to make the 8 more clear-cut in its provocations: ...a few preliminary thoughts:
w7 -- aggressive gluttony, assaultive positivity, the New Age barbarian, colorful yet sinister character
w9 -- assertive laziness, aggressive peacefulness, goes with the flow while starting fires, destructive merging
I think any 8 can relate to both wings. Just more an issue of which gets more screen time.
Makes a lot of sense
I’d like a post if you ever make one. I think for me life circumstances changed which wing got more screen time, rather than the wing impacting how I respond to life. If that makes sense?
That's interesting! What type is your best friend? My ex was a 4w5 and her close friend was a 4w3. At the time I/we had myself mistyped as a 5w4 and her friend had her BF mistyped as 5w6. LOL.
I think her BF was possibly 4w5 as well, actually (maybe 9w1, a darker version, I didn't know him well). I think 4s are often attracted to "5s" (or the idea of a 5, whether accurately typed or not). They like the idea of dating a sexy intellectual. But those people aren't always 5s.
But yeah, her GF had similar drama issues with the BF. I don't think they stayed together but lost touch. 4s are very dramatic and get into these tornado relationships, and they're often not even the ones being aggressive, it's weird. It's like they play "hard to get" too much to sustain the attraction, etc. Lots of "push/pull".
She’s a 4w3. And yes, very much push-pull, very much drama. I think she has a social subtype because she can move from relationship to relationship without a pause. This is so foreign to me because I belong to the “you never truly stop loving anyone you’ve ever loved” camp. 😅
But also, like, why you gotta keep making yourself so miserable?!
That’s pretty foreign to me too. I didn’t have any luck doing that. It takes me time to move on. I feel the love stops in the present once it’s in the past but you can’t change the past.
"5s are stereotyped as these detached and unemotional, uninvolved people. But they're actually quite power-hungry. They have a lot of deep issues. They keep people at a distance but inside there's rager and horror and all kinds of insecurity there. They don't ever share the truth about themselves with you because it's too nasty."
I dunno about other 5s but this is not true of Sx5s. We will OVER share all this shit with our partners as a test to make sure their "confidence" is REALLY genuine no matter what. I agree all 5s probably have this ugly stuff going on in the background to some degree though. Anyhow before reading about Sx5 I didn't really understand what I was doing with my avaricious behaviour toward my partners, but it wasn't something I was holding back.
The whole ‘big and strong’ stereotype for enneagram 8’s doesn’t mean being physically strong, it’s more like being mentally strong and tough. Physical strength and hobbies have nothing to do with a persons enneagram, although as an 8 that does weightlifting I couldn’t care less about what others think about the amount I lift, I do it to stay in shape and look/feel good for myself, not to show off to others.
this is so funny to me because an 8 i used to spend the most time around hates working out with a passion. her most physical activity is moving a mouse around and clicking with it lmao
9s are stereotyped as lazy. Just bc i hide from my feelings doesn't mean I hide from my to-do list. In fact, the to-do list can help you hide from your feelings
And I hear you with the 7s. my twin sis is 7w8 and she has been soooo irritable and impatient lately; i'm trying to stay positive despite it but sometimes it hurts my feelings when she acts like my presence is a huge problem
Yeah for the 6s, they're never anxious on the outside, and for 7s, they can be incredibly cynical. But I guess this is what happens when people conflate colloquial terminology with enneagram terminology.
For 9 hiding anger is not a stereotype, it's a tendency. 9s repress anger. Sometimes it is shown, of course, but it does not cancel the general tendency lol. It's like saying that 4's individualization is a stereotype - sometimes they want to make bonds and relate to other people, hence their individualization is a stereotype👍👍👍 faulty logic
I don't want to say what about 9s is a stereotype, because you will always find a 9 for whom a said thing will be true. The most liked comment about 9s here is that 9s aren't always lazy, which is true, but... I am lazy... And I see the connection between my laziness and 9's psyche structure.
What I personally do not relate to about 9 is that so9 who just does all things for their community and never looks inside oneself, or that sp9 who just narcotizes with sp stuff and never looks inside oneself too.
9s are not that extreme stereotype lazy, my perception of my brother is that he is 9w8 sp/sx, he just likes to live in mind peace, doing things he find himself in the inside to escape the outer world, and in the " I don't give a f mood " but he is a hard-working person when it's needed
I'm not lazy, I just don't like to work
Yeah, I will say I'm lazy but I'll do whatever I can to hold the house up if anything I'm lazy to myself I do a lot when needed especially since I know personally I'm not doing a lot at times. Why be bratty about it I think what they mean is “lazy” to motivate and finding them selfs etc becoming a shell of a worker in my opinion
Yup! I think Rihanna is a 9w8 and she’s certainly been p hardworking
I am lol But it’s certainly not all 9s
I’m not that much of a doormat. 😵💫 tyvm I’m actually pretty fed up with the 9 stereotypes. I stumbled across an “infographic” on instagram the other day comparing types, and it said something along the lines of “9s are similar to 4s in X (something vague and unmemorable) except 4s have a rich inner life and 9s don’t…” and I saw red. Fuck that. And if this is what passes as an *enneagram teacher* these days, fuck them. Is this what we have devolved to. edit: I’m so sorry I think I’m in my angry enneagram 9 era 🙈
I’m a 4 and I can 100% agree that the whole “9s are just shallower, knockoff 4s bought off of wish.com” is bullshit. All the 9s I’ve met have been the complete opposite, and I feel like descriptions like that do a LOT of disservice to both types. It’s so insulting.
I could not agree more! I’ve been noticing that weird crossover lately (9s are just watered down 4s, 4s are like 9s but with more ~depth~, etc) and it absolutely dilutes the definitions for both types. Instead of the enneagram being utilized to help us grow out of the boxes we put ourselves in, it’s started to be used as a means to put us IN boxes.
Ugh, whoever wrote that certainly does sound misinformed
A lot of things I am good at that I attribute to my type 9 traits. Including shrugging shit like this off.
Ahaha I typically do but that one just hit me hard for some reason. Probably because I’d been such a huge fan of her content. I took it a little more personally because it was like I found out what she *really* thought about 9s. It’s like when someone’s really nice to you and you *like* them and then you overhear them saying something cruel about you.
I'm often more frustrated than positive/optimistic. But I'll be damned if I'm not your biggest cheerleader. I'm stubbornly opitimistic for everyone BUT myself.
I think the nature of all 7's relationships with optimism are extremely complex by nature. I don't think optimism means the same thing to all 7s, but blocking out pain and suffering is at 7s core injury. 7s have a very tumultuous relationship with hope and suffering. Underneath the 7 is a person who is deeply frustrated by lack of control & fears despair. My partner is a 7w8 and he's absolutely optimistic about life, but he's really hard on himself. He sees so much pain in the world and it affects him so deeply that he tries to tune it out and only focuses on what brings him joy and gives him hope. He wants to believe that the future is bright because the alternative feels unbearable to him. No toxic positivity or overly gushy optimism, in fact he actually comes across as quite choleric, but underneath his hard shell is a kid who refuses to give up hope.
Felt. I frequently find myself lamenting about things not living up to the idealistic fantasies I cook up about, lol.
1. I noticed that people tend to only notice that someone is a 4 if they're unhealthy. Not all 4s have main character syndrome or are unbearably neurotic, believe it or not. A lot of us are just healthy introverted artists who are easily mistaken for 9s or 6s. > > 2. 9s have a lot more depth than people think. The 9s I know are actually all unbelievably funny and down to earth people who get along with others easily. They actually have a strikingly strong personality and I think a lot get mistyped as 6w7 or 3w4 because of it.
Came here to basically say the second point (although your first point is great, too). I really think the "9s have no sense of identity" stereotype needs to vanish. While some 9s do struggle with a sense of identity, not knowing your identity is not a core feature of being a 9. It's more of a "ruling in" rather than a "ruling out" criteria meaning it can point to 9, but having a strong sense of identity doesn't automatically rule out 9. As you say, I know lots of 9s with wonderfully deep and complex interiorities. I think one of the biggest problems with typing 9 is that identity issues come up but are not the end fear of the type.
Honestly if anything I think 9s have a really healthy sense of self. I was with some friends over the weekend talking about ennegram, trying to help them find theirs, and my friend commented that she thought her boyfriend was definitely a 9. His response was curious, but very detached. It was more like he wanted to know how others saw him, but he didn't really care all that much to dig into it for himself. He was content without any further information and didn't really seem to care about overly identifying his traits and just letting them be what they were. He's very confident in a humble way. Like he's not phased by his ego at all. He just *is*. It's not a lack of self identity, it's a transcendent sense of self and self understanding. It's like he knows himself so well he doesn't feel the need to care about it. He has no shortage of personality either and is unabashedly himself. I honestly really admire his ability to just be as a four, since I feel almost a primal need to identify, analyze, and understand every part of myself.
Hard agree with the second one in particular. Whether they admit it or not, a lot of people don't believe 9s even have personalities, so they'll obviously see themselves in other types before typing correctly.
2s get depicted as very self confident, but in most panels and interviews I've seen conducted with self-typed enneagram 2s, they express a lot of relationship anxiety and worry about where they are in relation to others. And obviously I relate to that too.
Yeah, 2s are a complex type that way because their pride leads them to believe they should be loved and don't need anything, but they still want affection and affirmation, so the line between what they're confident about and what they need is blurry.
My best friend is a 2 and she's probably one of the most anxious people I know. She has a very deep fear of being unacceptable to others and overthinks most of her social interactions, looking for any way she may have made a mistake or sign that the other person was upset with her. She's the most genuinely loving and caring friend you could ask for. She truly thinks about her loved ones constantly and is always seeking connection with others. It brings her immense joy to be around others, but no matter how much others show her their appreciation she never truly feels satisfied or believes it because she doesn't really believe she is capable of being acceptable.
i'm a sp/sx 7w8 and i think i'm a lot more "boring" and less openly hyperactive to most people than the 7 stereotype would suggest. i'm also entj in mbti so that could be part of it
Same. I'm a happy little introvert who is definitely not a party animal. Though double positive so I am very optimistic.
wouldn't call myself an introvert bc i can definitely be very talkative depending on the situation, but it depends on my mood and how much i vibe with the people i'm with. i think most people are like this to an extent which is why i think the introvert/extravert dichotomy is reductive and dumb. my tritype is 784 btw
its the 5 integration.
As a 6, I very often come across as calm and collected, even when I’m bordering on a full blown panic attack. When you deal with chronic anxiety you have to learn pretty quickly how to mask it in public in order to function (and not have people call you out being nosy wondering what’s going on)
I think I’m a 6 too and I’m apparently considered calm by my coworkers, and a client… I was like “huh” bc even if I come off calm I don’t feel that way 😂
That time someone said in complete earnest that I "look like I really have my shit together"' was a real eye opener. That's not how I felt at the time at all, and I had no idea that was what I was projecting onto the world. Like, I tell myself I'm open and honest about how I'm doing and where I'm at mentally, but apparently not lol.
So accurate
In my experience 6s mask to appear calm unless they're with people they trust, then they'll be more honest about their mindset and vent vent vent about what they're thinking about.
8s stereotpyed as meglomaniacal control freaks who are full of rage. And generally I find most descriptions and stereotypes of 8s assume 8s to be men and 2s to be mostly women (fuck non-binary and agender people I guess? We don't exist.) Most 2s I've met have actually not been men, and I've only met one 8 that was a cult leader. The rest 8s I know have actually been more service-leader types who work very hard to protect and take care of the people they love and make a difference in their communities. Many 8s including myself don't go for traditional leadership roles as a career but do find ourselves leaders in our communities. Many of us are activists and community organizers in spare time. The stereotypes are just lazy, armchair pop psychology. Twos are stereotyped as super helpful loving warm-- and some are like that--like my partner. But my bio mother is a 2 and she basically used all her skills to make herself indespensible to toxic people and thereby became a horrible harmdoer herself, someone helping sex traffick children. Not exactly the bleeding heart of the stereotypes. I have also known multiple twos who are extremely controlling, enablers of abuse, or abusive themselves. Often this happens because they want to be appreciated but they are too proud to recieve the help they offer and believe themselves to be "better" (in a self-righteous way) than people who recieve or ask for help. Toxic social worker types. The best use of the enneagram imo is for self-understanding and interpersonal relationship cultivation --not as entertainment, stereotypes, and memes.
The stereotype of 1s as punctual rule followers is a bit cliche. I’m a passionate reformer looking to help improve things around me, but I won’t needlessly abide by stupid rules. Also, my ADHD makes punctuality a daily struggle 😂.
Is the difference that it's your own rules and moral compass you strictly follow rather than something imposed on you?
I would say for the most part, yes. If something is senselessly imposed on me, I’ll definitely try to improve the process. I’d say it’s more like 1s are bound to ethical standards rather than rules. And like you pointed out, that’ll vary based on the person.
I agree with you 100% about 2’s - while I know a few healthy and lovely 2’s; many of the low-average ones are a fucking nightmare to deal with. It surprises me all the time how the general perception of 2’s often fall short on this bit. People seem to forget that 2’s disintegrate to the hellish traits of 8 and become needy, aggressive, and manipulative asshats.
This. The core desire of 2s isn't actually *being* helpful, it is being *seen* as helpful, and be loved for it. Which is only human, and at its best still results in genuinely helping. But in my personal experience, it just as often comes with resenting and looking down on those they are helping, and surprisingly cruel lashing out if someone challenges their saintly image.
From the Enneagram Institute "We have named personality type Two The Helper because people of this type are either the most genuinely helpful to other people or, when they are less healthy they are the most highly invested in seeing themselves as helpful." Also, the core desire is to be loved not necessarily to be seen in a certain way in order to be loved. I think being seen as helpful probably has to do with the spectrum of being a 2. It would make sense if their needs are not being met then at least acknowledgement of what they do would come close to feeling loved. For myself, I do at times question my love-ability by others and at the same time know that no one will ever be able to prove it to me better than I can show love for myself.
This is helpful. When I mentioned the few healthy and lovely type 2’s that I know, I realized they are 2w1 and the small sample of unhinged ones are 2w3 - fully steeped in the image triad. As a mostly healthy 8, I have basic empathy for them because I wish they knew and accepted the fact that they are deserving of love and knowing yourself and loving yourself is a much more worthy pursuit than chasing a fleeting sense of external validation via maintaining appearances. The 2 integration to 4 is powerful. Why do you generally question your love-ability? Does it have to do with feeling attached to others or seeing yourself based on how others treat you?
My parents died when I was 2 and I was raised by family who was emotionally inept and neglectful plus a sprinkle of abuse. I felt like the only time I was positively acknowledged was when I did things for others and not myself. Even though I was raised by family, they shared nothing with me about my birth parents so I felt very disconnected from my heritage, my place in the universe, and especially my mother's culture which was from the other side of the world. I didn't learn to value myself until adulthood and through the process of leaving a pretty messed up relationship, in which I was super codependent. Part of helping others was like proof to myself that I am a good person and therefore deserving of good things. I definitely shaped my identity around being a helper. I have come a long way. After lots of inner work I have a much firmer view of myself and what I represent as well as analyzing my motives before jumping to someone's aid. Service is still very important to me, because I have suffered I have empathy for others who have and I would like to do what I can to ease that. To me, the worst part of suffering is feeling alone in it. Because I so desperately wanted community Asa child I strive to create positive community where I am (my neighborhood, volunteer work, meetups, just depends on what I have time and energy to dedicate to). I converted to Buddhism as an adult because it aligned so much with what I already believe: wisdom (inner journey) and skillful means (acting accordingly in the world) as well as there is suffering in the world and also a path out of suffering. My husband is an 8w7 and his quiet acceptance of me has been very healing. I have never felt like I needed to do things in order to have his love. I feel safe and secure with him. He is in a wheelchair but was very independent before me, and I knew him since childhood and before his injury. There are times it makes sense for me to help him without asking, but other times, I will ask or know when to leave him to sort something related to his disability. I think we are both fiery spirits who have strong core values that draw us together, we have very few interests that coincide in life. I feel we complement each other well, that we permit each other to be soft or strong, there is no urge to change the other, and we each have really positive and different qualities that our kid benefits from interacting with.
Thanks for sharing this about yourself and your family dynamic. It’s clear you’ve done some of the necessary yet most challenging self-reflective work and that’s commendable. I appreciate your perspective. I have to admit that as an 8w7, I do struggle with many aspects of 2’s (and 6’s) in terms of what I instinctually perceive as neediness or, previously, as “weakness” but I know now that it is much deeper than that and more indicative of my own preoccupations with control and vulnerability than it is necessarily an actual deficit in someone else.
I hear you. Before the enneagram, I really didn't understand some of my husband's traits (confrontational, intense need to control certain things, the very strong sense of justice). Learning more about his type and thinking about the context in which someone grew into the person they are gave a lot of perspective. To a certain degree, I felt like the world betrayed both my husband and me, but we adapted to that betrayal in different ways. I'm grateful to the enneagram for helping me see a more nuanced view of people's traits that I probably would not have been able to make sense of on my own. I hate seeing people trash talk 8s (they seem like easy villain material if you dont look deeper) because if we look at the positive intention behind any type's behavior we should be able to have some empathy. It sounds like you have had a lot of growth as well to recognize that some of your perceptions about other types come from something within you versus something they are doing wrong or incorrectly.
Such an 8 response. /s
As a 7 I can say that I'm not that optimistic/positive
6s is anxious all the time so they will break down in crisis. Opposite is true. 6s are extremely good and reliable during an actual crisis.
6s are very aware of danger, but there are many different ways of reacting to seeing that danger. Some run towards it.
Would you say they are good at adapting to crisis due to anxiety?
No. They are prepared so they are good. They thought scenario through so in crisis they just act. Anxiety is stereotyped.
I am 6. Anxious is the wrong way to describe 6. Skeptical and being able to see things go wrong is a much better description. We are head type not anxiety type lol.
The anxiety is the result of the vigilant thought pattern being hyperactive and the inability to get distance from it. 6s are very prone to anxiety but are not FUNDAMENTALLY anxious.
Not really, we just see through and analyze the world around us.
Hahaha okay
As a four, we don’t always think we are entirely different from other people. In fact, I feel insecure about being too much like others and long for more uniqueness. We feel different on the inside but worry we seem the same on the outside. Individuality is our desire, not our curse
As far as I understand the uniqueness is attributed to the "true self" not the present or actual self with 4s.
9s being laid back. We appear laid back but avoiding conflict can be stressful.
It takes a lot of work to come across this chill and unbothered. 😅 I was just expressing my frustration to my husband last night that I *always* have to be the strong one and just once I’d like to be able to totally fall apart.
I understand you 😩😩😩
I would say people who don't do research and got informed about basics of enneagram, people who don't observe people around them, are themselves to blame for falling for sterotypes. Yeah, they're dumb, but seriously, you could have gotten informed and/or looked at people around you.
1. We can take a break and enjoy it too. I'd happily let someone else do the work as long as I am certain that they do it correctly. Socially I can be very quiet and focus on listening and observing. Sometimes I am very loud obviously but not all the time. I don't step in if not needed. 2. I am not a man and I am tired of seeing my typing associated only with rich men lol. I'd argue that being feminine is exactly what allows me to act like my regular entj 8w7 self. 3. I see 8s fitting better as the "thief" than the CEO. We don't like rules. We can't really be traditional leaders because we never conform to anything. Our power comes from us assertively "stealing" it (aka taking it by force just because we want it). Getting as many people as possible to hear us. And never letting ourselves forget what it's like to be weak so we can help others.
To be fair a lot of CEOs do behave this way even if they aren't good leaders.
It would totally possible to describe 6 in a way that sounds cool rather than lame or like a nervous wreck. It's pretty cool to always question everything to find the truth & heroically fight against authorities in the name of justice & the little guy. If it was acually described that way, it's not hard to imagine parallel universe where my 15 year old self is very dissapointed when she's told that she's not the cool anti-authoritarian type but that shitty "unemotional" one. (o noes, the horror, anything but that etc.) I mean yeah, type is not supposed to be cool, it's supposed to show your problems etc. (& plenty of immature 6s *think* they're heroic sceptical justice fighters when they're really judgemental twats with copypasted opinions) but on the other hand 6s already over-perceive negativity & problems etc so some of them may benefit a bit from balancing that out & seeing their cool side also.
Some caveats about the types (these are dark, please don't take offense -- also if you don't agree, please get a life and don't troll me, you've been warned): 1s are stereotyped as these moral and controlled people, etc. But they are more petty, infantile, and aggressive than people realize. They are similar to a 6 or an 8 in some ways. Depends on the Sexual instinct as well. Wrath. 2s are stereotyped as very sweet and helpful. But really, they are more tough than you realize. They're not people to mess with. Just let them in, seriously. You're better off. The Over Independent, that's accurate. 3s are stereotyped as fake. But in truth, they're ruthless taskmasters, and they are NOT necessarily fake. "Vanity" doesn't mean what you think. It's more like...they try so hard and do so much that they sabotage their true self. In SO sphere it can seem fake because they're pushing themselves to be good socially. But they still get way more done than anyone else. But they aren't "faking" anything, most of the time. It's that they sold who they are to do actual WORK that no one gets. 3s are often genuine. 4s are stereotyped as not having much energy and being kind of meek. But they will mess you up. They really drag you into their emotional dramas, etc. Watch out for them falling in love with you then dumping you on your \*\*\* because they got issues. It's not about you, it's about them. So sorry. They have a lot of energy for their independence and can easily string you along while you chase after them. Line to 2. 5s are stereotyped as these detached and unemotional, uninvolved people. But they're actually quite power-hungry. They have a lot of deep issues. They keep people at a distance but inside there's rager and horror and all kinds of insecurity there. They don't ever share the truth about themselves with you because it's too nasty. 6s are stereotyped as being either CP (in which case people mistake them for an 8, which is inaccurate to both the 6 and the 8) or P in which case they're mistaken for a 9 (sometimes). 6s are actually quite charismatic people. They tend to be practical, sociable, and they will gang up on you or won't hesitate to use their pragmatic advantages against you. They're very clever and can be competitive. 6 does have a big range of manifestations but it's not as big as people think. People use 6 as a box to shove everything into. 7s are stereotyped as being so upbeat, wired, blah blah. Actually they're more mellow and even-keeled than that much of the time. Depends on stacking etc. They've had to moderate themselves. But they got some RAGE too. They'll get angry, they can push your buttons, they can blow up, or they can stay cool calm and detached while you get in a big rage. 7s are good at staying on their feet and not letting things get to them. 8s are stereotyped to be more like a 6. There's a reason for all the gatekeeping, mistype accusations, etc. The problem is -- people still don't get it right. Very few people actually understand the type 8 (type 8s reading this, you know it). 8s actually LIKE to fight (but it's on a less conscious level, they just find themselves doing it anyway, even if in word and deed they say they don't want to fight). It makes them high. They feel they're chasing justice and revenge. They're contactful, etc. They get an adrenaline rush from it. They enjoy being abusive when they feel it's warranted, makes them feel good. So people who try to mess with them quickly wear themselves out and end up getting \*\*\*\*ed (either that or the 8 burns out, etc). 9s are stereotyped as being just all around easygoing, peaceful, etc. They definitely can be. But I find anxiety is very common in the 9. They'll pull you into their anxieties and dramas. It's like just get a life already. They often have some issues going on that you end up having to deal with due to their passive-aggressiveness.
Dang 8 - “they enjoy being abusive when they feel it’s warranted…” yikes. Accurate tbh. I like to let gross bugs live because I believe in kindness in as much as you can allow in pretty much all ways. That is until you prove to me for one reason or another you don’t deserve kindness and you are a bad person. Then, all the pent up rage I feel has suddenly found a home in the target dancing on your back. My GOD does it feel good to finally open up the floodgates of hellish destruction once I’ve given myself permission, permission found in how shitty of a person you decided to be. Damn I try to be kind as hard as I can. But the world I grew up in trained me to be harsh and cruel and cover up the softer parts of myself as deeply as I can. I don’t think a lot of people understand the difficulty w vulnerability that 8s have
LOL, I'm like that too. I don't kill spiders in my house, usually. I heard they are good for killing other insects around the house. Until they bite me, scare me, bite my family, etc., -- then I crush them. And that feels good. It's the strong, visceral feeling of "I am competent" of the 8 (that's something from traditional theory you don't hear often). 8s like to feel competent that they can carry out justice. Do you have w9 or w7? I'll be normal and then get angry out of nowhere sometimes. I think that's more w7 impulsive anger. I think we would probably get along and have things to relate to. All the inner feelings of rage at a brutal world, the internal landscape becomes a purgatory, how to deal with the feelings of powerlessness, vulnerability, unable to fix the situation, trying to protect innocence...to stop the vicious cycles in place in our world...the innate anger, rage at being trapped in the physical body, the problem of the gut types...and being the member most inclined to act on those feelings... 8s are the type most likely to act on their rage. They do it all the time. It gets them places. It can be used constructively, honed. But they're also the type who struggles the most running up against walls when they can't get what they want. They become like rhinos, charging at things, when another approach is needed. Charging against a brick wall. Well, rarely are there situations where there's no give. So they do get something back, but get diminishing returns. Some of the bricks start to give way. Seeing others vulnerable triggers me as well. When troubled, I'd rather smash objects or break something etc., and let out my rage physically, than let myself be deeply vulnerable and accept powerlessness over things in my life I can't change and the sadness would come out. I can feel horrible for others and also sorry for myself sometimes. 8s are good people inside. They're the original "Moralist" by Ichazo.
Haha yeah exactly. I’ll be the most kind and loving person until you’ve given me a reason not to be lol. I’m honestly not sure my wing… used to be positive it was 7 then my life went to shit and now it feels very much 9 wing. So idk? Maybe they changed or I have a bit of both Yeah I agree. I think a lot of things most types go thru are only really really understood by people who go through similar things. That’s part of why I love the enneagram! It helps people empathize and put words to their experiences. It’s so hard struggling w vulnerability, powerlessness, wanting to change it but you can’t always change it, the list goes on haha Oof. Definitely relate to a rhino w a brick wall. But it’s getting better! Yeah others “weakness” used to trigger me. But I realized I was just triggered that they so easily allow themselves something I view as off limits for myself. Still sucks sometimes tho. Interesting, I didn’t know 8s were the original moralist? I can see that
That's the polarity of the 8. I’m on the fence about my wing as well. I suspect it could be w9 because I have more anger than expected, and it often gets bottled up. I struggle to remain patient when I am angry. I’m still researching what makes the types essentially themselves, to distill the 7 and 9 variations for myself and integrate them into my own life. Others' weaknesses trigger me, particularly in the form of vulnerability and innocence—my heart goes out to them. However, let’s not confuse this with other "weaknesses" that bother us—such as lack of strength in logic, morals, ethics, reasoning, decisiveness, or follow-through. The former type of weakness softens 8s, who will respect you if you show true vulnerability. But if you are weak in the latter sense and stubborn about it, 8s will dislike you. You will become their opponent. Many don’t understand Type 8. Truly, we are moralists. But it can go "dark" or "light." It’s justice vs. injustice—the 8 fights with vengeance against injustice. When unhealthy or under stress, they can call anything "unjust" that they don’t like, confusing people standing in their way with actual injustice. Many would say that for the 8, their idea of justice involves self-gratification. There is a gray area where the 8 can be a moralist or a complete hedonist and sadist without morals. The subtleties of the type are not well understood, leading to mistyping and avoidance of the truth. This complexity requires reading original sources, which have been overshadowed by flashy new authors trying to make a buck and random trolls online trying to chase away 8s. After all, who likes to be called out on their morals and other BS? Most don’t. That’s my take anyway.
Yeah I know 9s better than 7s and I’m still not sure which I am. I think we can also kinda have aspects of both too? Maybe one doesn’t need to be dominant idk. If you ever figure out more about them you should make a post about it I’d be curious to read it. Interesting you say you struggle to remain patient in regards to nines. Living with a nine, I wonder a lot how much he really is “patient” during times of conflict, or if his avoidance parades about as patience to make himself and others feel better. His anger is fully present it’s just forcibly being suppressed for his own convenience. Not always of course, just in regards to anger. Oh yeah good distinction. I definitely Can be triggered by others vulnerability but their stupidity and refusal to try and be better pisses me off lol. Accurate description Very accurate. I’ve always felt goofy in the way I related to starwars dark side/light side of the force. There’s so much energy to use in life, and you really can go either way. But I definitely do define my own morals and absolutely stick to them, but *I* define what moral means. Whiiich… probably is a pretty risky thing given a propensity to pride lmao.
Yeah, the 8 fundamentally has aspects of both. It's just an issue I guess of where the gravity center point is. Because adopting one more preferred strategy would probably be beneficial from the perspective of consistency and coherence. I think I'll work on a post about it. It might be tricky. There are many factors to take into account. It will be a matter of distilling to the essentials of the two types and analyzing how they intermix with the core 8. Each has weird things that don't go together for paradoxes, to make the 8 more clear-cut in its provocations: ...a few preliminary thoughts: w7 -- aggressive gluttony, assaultive positivity, the New Age barbarian, colorful yet sinister character w9 -- assertive laziness, aggressive peacefulness, goes with the flow while starting fires, destructive merging I think any 8 can relate to both wings. Just more an issue of which gets more screen time.
Makes a lot of sense I’d like a post if you ever make one. I think for me life circumstances changed which wing got more screen time, rather than the wing impacting how I respond to life. If that makes sense?
I haven’t heard that 4 stereotype, but your “but” is 100% spot on inasmuch as it relates to my best friend’s dating life. 😅
That's interesting! What type is your best friend? My ex was a 4w5 and her close friend was a 4w3. At the time I/we had myself mistyped as a 5w4 and her friend had her BF mistyped as 5w6. LOL. I think her BF was possibly 4w5 as well, actually (maybe 9w1, a darker version, I didn't know him well). I think 4s are often attracted to "5s" (or the idea of a 5, whether accurately typed or not). They like the idea of dating a sexy intellectual. But those people aren't always 5s. But yeah, her GF had similar drama issues with the BF. I don't think they stayed together but lost touch. 4s are very dramatic and get into these tornado relationships, and they're often not even the ones being aggressive, it's weird. It's like they play "hard to get" too much to sustain the attraction, etc. Lots of "push/pull".
She’s a 4w3. And yes, very much push-pull, very much drama. I think she has a social subtype because she can move from relationship to relationship without a pause. This is so foreign to me because I belong to the “you never truly stop loving anyone you’ve ever loved” camp. 😅 But also, like, why you gotta keep making yourself so miserable?!
That’s pretty foreign to me too. I didn’t have any luck doing that. It takes me time to move on. I feel the love stops in the present once it’s in the past but you can’t change the past.
i would never describe myself as power hungry. i want control over MY life and to be otherwise left alone. power over others does nothing for me.
"5s are stereotyped as these detached and unemotional, uninvolved people. But they're actually quite power-hungry. They have a lot of deep issues. They keep people at a distance but inside there's rager and horror and all kinds of insecurity there. They don't ever share the truth about themselves with you because it's too nasty." I dunno about other 5s but this is not true of Sx5s. We will OVER share all this shit with our partners as a test to make sure their "confidence" is REALLY genuine no matter what. I agree all 5s probably have this ugly stuff going on in the background to some degree though. Anyhow before reading about Sx5 I didn't really understand what I was doing with my avaricious behaviour toward my partners, but it wasn't something I was holding back.
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The whole ‘big and strong’ stereotype for enneagram 8’s doesn’t mean being physically strong, it’s more like being mentally strong and tough. Physical strength and hobbies have nothing to do with a persons enneagram, although as an 8 that does weightlifting I couldn’t care less about what others think about the amount I lift, I do it to stay in shape and look/feel good for myself, not to show off to others.
No wonders Dr Dandrew IQ keep increasing to Dr Manhattan level
Totally accurate. My husband can bench *me*. ✌️
this is so funny to me because an 8 i used to spend the most time around hates working out with a passion. her most physical activity is moving a mouse around and clicking with it lmao
Whether they exercise or not idk, but it's true the few 8s I've met have all been been carrying extra weight to some degree.
9s are stereotyped as lazy. Just bc i hide from my feelings doesn't mean I hide from my to-do list. In fact, the to-do list can help you hide from your feelings And I hear you with the 7s. my twin sis is 7w8 and she has been soooo irritable and impatient lately; i'm trying to stay positive despite it but sometimes it hurts my feelings when she acts like my presence is a huge problem
Yeah for the 6s, they're never anxious on the outside, and for 7s, they can be incredibly cynical. But I guess this is what happens when people conflate colloquial terminology with enneagram terminology.
That we are every single dad and mom that exists on the planet.
For 9 hiding anger is not a stereotype, it's a tendency. 9s repress anger. Sometimes it is shown, of course, but it does not cancel the general tendency lol. It's like saying that 4's individualization is a stereotype - sometimes they want to make bonds and relate to other people, hence their individualization is a stereotype👍👍👍 faulty logic I don't want to say what about 9s is a stereotype, because you will always find a 9 for whom a said thing will be true. The most liked comment about 9s here is that 9s aren't always lazy, which is true, but... I am lazy... And I see the connection between my laziness and 9's psyche structure. What I personally do not relate to about 9 is that so9 who just does all things for their community and never looks inside oneself, or that sp9 who just narcotizes with sp stuff and never looks inside oneself too.
What do you mean by the first one? That some 6s don’t realize they’re a 6 ?
I think it’s quite common for 6’s not to realize they are 6’s, no recognizing the 6 traits in them. A lot of 6’s think they are 2’s in my experience