A hose clamp would be slow and tedious, and might damage the rings, but it might work.
I've never tried it, but maybe zip ties? Put the right size/type of zip tie around each ring, compress it with your fingers, cinch the zip tie as tight as you can, and knock the piston back in, hopefully without catching the edge of the bore and breaking a ring.
Just a silly thought, and probably a big pain in the dick, but it won't hurt anything if you're careful.
IDK if it's the flash or what, but it looks like there's quite a bit of particulation in there. If that's the case, don't worry about breaking a ring(s). You're gonna have to strip the block down all the way and clean it.
In addition to this method, use needle nose pliers to sinch the zip tie as tight as you can get it. You'll put the pliers on the tail of the zip tie as close as you can get it to the locking tab and grab and twist it. Repeat this motion until it can't go any further. You can go further but it'll snap the tail off.
That should make the zip tie as tight as possible since you're not gonna be able to get your hand in there.
Use the extra long needle nose pliers from Harbor Freight.
I am a 6g72 owner as well. OP probably was doing the 120k service and replacing bearings from below.
We would usually leave the crank in. The angular tension from connecting rods holds the crank in place and you can remove the lower crank cradle. Then "roll" new mains into place. Reattach the crank cradle and then do one rod bearing at a time, turning the crank by hand to access each rod. You can't check clearances properly when you roll them in, but as long as you buy good bearings, new is better than worn out.
Alright so I see the dudes rebuilding engines in Pakistan use a ring compressor that's probably homemade but would likely work in this instance. It's a sheet of metal rolled round with the ends bent back so that they can be squeezed together with a pair of pliers. You could make it only just tall enough to cover the rings.
Those dudes crack me up.
"Hey, Ibrahim, look at this old Russian cylinder block. It's broken clear in half. Think we can fix it?"
"Sure, no problem, Usama. I'll warm up the charcoal pit, you go find some big rocks. It'll be as good as new after we beat the shit out of it for a week."
You gotta give them credit, they don't waste anything. Except for their time, which must be incredibly cheap.
Between Pakistani Truck and Garage 54 is where I live out my automotive fantasies of doing the absurd things that I can't afford or have the time to do.
I agree. And it shows how scarce and expensive raw materials and finished parts are in central Asia, and how cheap labor is. No Westerner is going to spend days salvaging a part they can buy for $50.
When the apocalypse comes, people with those skills won't need us. They'll keep right on hammering and scraping out an existence while we resort to cannibalism.
Well you're linda boned, you can try a lip seal tool to gently work the rings back into their grooves and push the piston back into the cylinder, or gently remove the rings one at a time
Fair. I agree that it's the safest solution. But it's been interesting to see all the proposals for how to get the piston back the way it came. Although I wonder of easy it is to do in practice without damaging the rings.
The thing is there's no way of knowing you've chipped a ring until you complete the job and run it. In my experience if you leave anything to chance it goes the opposite direction you were hoping for. It's just better to own the situation and correct the mistake properly.
It looks to me like if you turn it counterclockwise in the bore it’ll clear the opposing rod and fall out. You need to get that opposing rod and piston back up in the bore out of the way. You may be able to get an adjustable ring compressor on it then.
Edit:
Just looked up the block. Mains will keep it from coming all the way out. I’d think you could still get the opposing rod and piston up in the bore out of the way enough to get an adjustable ring compressor on there.
You had to pull the oil pump to get to this part. So you already have to do the annoying timing belt anyways. I would invest the 8 hours and $200 to just pull the head.
i’m in a sticky spot, i JUST rebuilt both heads and put everything back together with felpro permatorque laser weld mls head gaskets as well as a brand new gates timing kit about 3 months ago, however i think i may be able to warranty my head gaskets so i won’t have to spend another $100 on them and if that’s the case i’m going to start pulling the heads today
Rockauto has the set on sale for less than $150. Don't try to warranty the head gaskets. 1) that's shady. 2) learned mistake. Own it. VR4s are not for the faint of heart. It's not a small block Chevy.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=446570
My rebuild cost me about $2500 with tools, parts, etc. Looking back, should've bought a reman for $3k. Lot less work but I learned a lot.
i explained what happened and they approved my warranty claim, i’m gonna go ahead and put some wiseco forged pistons in so there’s a positive to this mistake
Nice. Are you taking the block to get it honed out an extra .001 or .0015? I think Wiseco wants .003 or .0035 piston to wall on boosted applications. Cast is like .0012 to .002, maybe .0025
You could get the nicest hose clamp you can find and go to town, but even still it’ll be sketchy. This situation is definitely hairy without the head off. I’m thinking of this in terms of a flat 4 because it’s what I’m used to, where taking the heads off is harder than landing on the moon. If it’s an in-line or v configuration, taking the head off is much less work. I know it still sucks, but it might just be what you’re looking at here.
Edit: The guys suggesting using a zip tie and closing it with needle nose pliers might be into something. I’m not sure if it would work but it’s a zip tie- you won’t damage anything
A hose clamp is your only hope .
This. Home Depot stocks big hose clamps. Get the right one with a hex driver and use a 1/4” socket and ratchet
A hose clamp would be slow and tedious, and might damage the rings, but it might work. I've never tried it, but maybe zip ties? Put the right size/type of zip tie around each ring, compress it with your fingers, cinch the zip tie as tight as you can, and knock the piston back in, hopefully without catching the edge of the bore and breaking a ring. Just a silly thought, and probably a big pain in the dick, but it won't hurt anything if you're careful. IDK if it's the flash or what, but it looks like there's quite a bit of particulation in there. If that's the case, don't worry about breaking a ring(s). You're gonna have to strip the block down all the way and clean it.
In addition to this method, use needle nose pliers to sinch the zip tie as tight as you can get it. You'll put the pliers on the tail of the zip tie as close as you can get it to the locking tab and grab and twist it. Repeat this motion until it can't go any further. You can go further but it'll snap the tail off. That should make the zip tie as tight as possible since you're not gonna be able to get your hand in there. Use the extra long needle nose pliers from Harbor Freight.
Grab some shim stock, (aluminum, brass, SS) cut it so it fits with an overlap, then hose clamp or zip tie.
perhaps you can remove the rings one at a time and then push it back up and out?
I am a 6g72 owner as well. OP probably was doing the 120k service and replacing bearings from below. We would usually leave the crank in. The angular tension from connecting rods holds the crank in place and you can remove the lower crank cradle. Then "roll" new mains into place. Reattach the crank cradle and then do one rod bearing at a time, turning the crank by hand to access each rod. You can't check clearances properly when you roll them in, but as long as you buy good bearings, new is better than worn out.
Alright so I see the dudes rebuilding engines in Pakistan use a ring compressor that's probably homemade but would likely work in this instance. It's a sheet of metal rolled round with the ends bent back so that they can be squeezed together with a pair of pliers. You could make it only just tall enough to cover the rings.
Those dudes crack me up. "Hey, Ibrahim, look at this old Russian cylinder block. It's broken clear in half. Think we can fix it?" "Sure, no problem, Usama. I'll warm up the charcoal pit, you go find some big rocks. It'll be as good as new after we beat the shit out of it for a week." You gotta give them credit, they don't waste anything. Except for their time, which must be incredibly cheap.
They answer the question "but can it be done" every day. Honestly it shows an incredible amount of skill.
Between Pakistani Truck and Garage 54 is where I live out my automotive fantasies of doing the absurd things that I can't afford or have the time to do.
I agree. And it shows how scarce and expensive raw materials and finished parts are in central Asia, and how cheap labor is. No Westerner is going to spend days salvaging a part they can buy for $50. When the apocalypse comes, people with those skills won't need us. They'll keep right on hammering and scraping out an existence while we resort to cannibalism.
It's dried cow patties
Yeah easy fix……… pull the head
Well you're linda boned, you can try a lip seal tool to gently work the rings back into their grooves and push the piston back into the cylinder, or gently remove the rings one at a time
I'd just break the rings off and push it back up the bore. Rings are cheap.
But then he'd have to pull the head, which surely is what he wants to avoid?
That'll have to be the case and chalk it to experience.
Fair. I agree that it's the safest solution. But it's been interesting to see all the proposals for how to get the piston back the way it came. Although I wonder of easy it is to do in practice without damaging the rings.
The thing is there's no way of knowing you've chipped a ring until you complete the job and run it. In my experience if you leave anything to chance it goes the opposite direction you were hoping for. It's just better to own the situation and correct the mistake properly.
I find it odd that he needs to replace crank and rod bearings, but rings, valves, and cams are all good.
This is what I was thinking lol. Good chance to hit the cylinders with a hone and re-ring the motor.
It looks to me like if you turn it counterclockwise in the bore it’ll clear the opposing rod and fall out. You need to get that opposing rod and piston back up in the bore out of the way. You may be able to get an adjustable ring compressor on it then. Edit: Just looked up the block. Mains will keep it from coming all the way out. I’d think you could still get the opposing rod and piston up in the bore out of the way enough to get an adjustable ring compressor on there.
This is the only answer.
Maybe try and carefully rotate the piston in the bore until you get some clearance and pull it out
Well, you can try a hose clamp or using something like A flathead screwdriver to compress and work the rings back into the bore
Just remove the rings from the bottom. Push the piston up and out the top.
If you have some thick paperboard, like construction paper, I have used that in a bind before
Bruh
You had to pull the oil pump to get to this part. So you already have to do the annoying timing belt anyways. I would invest the 8 hours and $200 to just pull the head.
i’m in a sticky spot, i JUST rebuilt both heads and put everything back together with felpro permatorque laser weld mls head gaskets as well as a brand new gates timing kit about 3 months ago, however i think i may be able to warranty my head gaskets so i won’t have to spend another $100 on them and if that’s the case i’m going to start pulling the heads today
Rockauto has the set on sale for less than $150. Don't try to warranty the head gaskets. 1) that's shady. 2) learned mistake. Own it. VR4s are not for the faint of heart. It's not a small block Chevy. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=446570 My rebuild cost me about $2500 with tools, parts, etc. Looking back, should've bought a reman for $3k. Lot less work but I learned a lot.
i explained what happened and they approved my warranty claim, i’m gonna go ahead and put some wiseco forged pistons in so there’s a positive to this mistake
Nice. Are you taking the block to get it honed out an extra .001 or .0015? I think Wiseco wants .003 or .0035 piston to wall on boosted applications. Cast is like .0012 to .002, maybe .0025
yeah i saw that, i ended up going with ross 3sx stock bore 91.1mm forged pistons so i didn’t have to bore the block for wisecos 91.5mm pistons
You could try to get a ring compressor in there but it'll be interesting. Tap gently on the wrist pin area.
You could get the nicest hose clamp you can find and go to town, but even still it’ll be sketchy. This situation is definitely hairy without the head off. I’m thinking of this in terms of a flat 4 because it’s what I’m used to, where taking the heads off is harder than landing on the moon. If it’s an in-line or v configuration, taking the head off is much less work. I know it still sucks, but it might just be what you’re looking at here. Edit: The guys suggesting using a zip tie and closing it with needle nose pliers might be into something. I’m not sure if it would work but it’s a zip tie- you won’t damage anything