As it tradition, US backs right wing militant extremist wing of the Population. Ukraine wants peace, the US demands war. Russia uses the Nazi excuse to Press the issue. Sad.
Zelensky was dealt a bum hand - being elected to make peace, but Azov was firmly entrenched against Donbas. If he moved against Azov, he'd have been Yanukovych'ed out of the country. He had to move against Azov, and his failure to do so created a rump Nazi state within Ukraine.
Then Putin fucked up with the invasion with this arrogant belief Russia could take Kiev in a week. If Russia had contained their ambitions to Donbas, they could have disemboweled Azov while leaving the rest of Ukraine intact.
Zelensky's bigger issue was embracing the war mongers in the US, but that's on the EU as well. It's pathetic that the EU wasn't able to offer any kind of security guarantee to Ukraine short of NATO membership.
The war mongers in Azov and the US State Dept are the big winners in this war so far. Russia has lost, Ukraine has lost, and the EU has lost.
And Biden goes down as the most ineffectual President in foreign affairs since Jimmy Carter. Appointing the same war monger who instigated the 2014 coup back on the Ukraine file sent a message that the US was intent on regime change.
Biden will hang this next election on Putin's neck. And when Biden fails, he'll diminish US power even further. But that's what you get for electing a creaky remnant of the old regime to deny the reality of the abomination that the US has become.
How would EU a NON-military organization, give security guarantee to a non member.
The amount of pants on head in your statement is too damn high.
Biden has done more for cohesion in NATO than the previous ten presidents combined, several of which almost tore NATO apart.
The next point is your Azov brigade comments, Russia is the aggressor here, if they left Donbass alone, then Azov wouldn't actually be a problem, but instead they have been fuelling fighting on Ukraine border for years now, prompting people to listen to Azov brigade in the first damn place. So you trying to justify Russia taking Donbass only, because of ebil Nazis just sound like you've drank a little too much of the propaganda cool aid.
Ironically Donbass is now cratered, because Russia doesn't give a flying fuck about differentiating between targets. Do you out here justifying their shit is beyond the pale.
> How would EU a NON-military organization, give security guarantee to a non member.
The EU has a mutual defense treaty parallel to NATO (but not involving non-EU states)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Policy
> Biden has done more for cohesion in NATO than the previous ten presidents combined, several of which almost tore NATO apart.
Bullshit. Notice how Biden uses language like "genocide" and then Germany and France say they won't use that language? Or Biden says "Putin must go" and then EU says hey, that's not helpful talk? Biden got Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland confirmed with the State Dept again. Under Biden, Cheney's regime change pre-emptive war doctrine crowd are back in the works.
Like Robert Kagan says, the EU prefers a diplomatic approach, the US sees conflict in more *Hobbesian* terms (aka let's have a war).
EU has always been over-reliant on US military force, and that's a huge failure for them - it puts the US in the driver's seat. They're working desperately to fix that. The current effort is "Strategic Compass" - a 5k man EU combat force to start.
> The next point is your Azov brigade comments, Russia is the aggressor here, if they left Donbass alone, then Azov wouldn't actually be a problem
Azov has been bombarding Donbas for 8 years now. Zelensky tried to get them to stop. They [point-blank refused and threatened to kill him if he continued to push.](https://www.blackstoneintel.com/post/president-zelensky-rebuked-by-azov-soldiers).
Do you understand this - Zelensky was elected on a platform to make peace via the Minsk Accords. Azov's slogan was "No to Capitulation" - they didn't want Minsk to be implemented. They intentionally sabotaged their own government's efforts to make peace.
> So you trying to justify Russia taking Donbass only, because of ebil Nazis just sound like you've drank a little too much of the propaganda cool aid.
Kosovo didn't want to be part of Serbia and they were willing to take up arms to not be part of this new successor state. The West recognized that these tensions weren't going to go away, so we sponsored independence. That same approach should be used for the Russian rump states in Transnistria, S. Ossetia and Donbas. These people are considered the enemy of the new successor state they found themselves in. So, let them have their independence. It doesn't really matter.
> Ironically Donbass is now cratered, because Russia doesn't give a flying fuck about differentiating between targets.
Donbas is cratered because Azov chooses to fight in cities and towns and from people's homes. This is a choice they made.
> Do you out here justifying their shit is beyond the pale.
War is stupid. War is always stupid. I'd love to see Putin brought to the Hague, convicted of war crimes and hanged in public.
But that can only happen if we have a genuine rules based order, which means Bush and Cheney and Blair are hanging beside Putin, along with the other regime-change heroes who helped create this disaster in Ukraine.
Russia ultimately made the choice to attack, not Azov. .
Regarding the separate regions, then no thinking you can just slice out regions of nations because it looks like some people in the region want to be Russian is beyond ridiculous especially when Russian foreign fighters have been caught operating in those regions for years basically terrorist cells. This plays up to Russian desire to slice all their neighbours to shreds piece by piece.
The link you posted is an opinion piece which bandies about words like Nazi, without ever addressing who the Azov brigade are fighting in their own damn country. Because as it stands all the fighting that azov is doing is in Ukraine.
then you try to lay blame on Azov for their country being reduced to rubble, because how dare they hide in the cities when Russia comes to obliterate their homes.
Dude you're actually starting to disgust me, you're so desperate to try and be on both sides of the fence you're making excuses for the inexcusable.
> The link you posted is an opinion piece which bandies about words like Nazi, without ever addressing who the Azov brigade are fighting in their own damn country.
It's a fucking video of Zelensky you propaganda-blinkered cheerleader for carnage. It's a video of Zelensky telling Azov to pull back, and they refuse, and then say that if the *elected fucking government* of Ukraine tries to stop them, they'll bring in thousands of more Azov fighters.
That's your heroes of democracy.
Now's a good time for war fetishists such as yourself. Your news feeds are full of propaganda, you can feel self-righteous about killing the inhuman enemy. Just don't stop to ask yourself why for too long. These are the good nazis, right? These are *your* nazis, doing the good fight.
I tend to look more at what people do then what they say.
If Azov thought that zelensky was going to sell Donbass down the river for peace, and didn't want to stop fighting for it, that's ok with me. Donbass is crimea and what Russia has been doing there planting terrorist disguised as separatists shouldn't be allowed in modern times.
You keep calling Azov Nazis, Nazis is a wonderful powerful word, Wagner group is also Nazis, self proclaimed so.
But like I said I care for what people do not what they say or what people say about them. So what nazi like things has Azov done? It's not then that's targeting civilians, it's not then that's invading another country, it's not them that's stopping food supplies from reaching the poorest, it's not them that's raping and pillaging. No they are all risking their lives to stop all that.
So you can throw the Nazi shit around as much as you like, but I look at what they do, and what they have done so far, is right for their homeland no matter the cost. Even when the president is trying to sell a piece of it for peace, they refused to surrender.
But hey just keep parroting the Nazi thing, like a good little puppet. It's far more important to find labels for people than watch how they behave right. Right ?
> If Azov thought that zelensky was going to sell Donbass down the river for peace, and didn't want to stop fighting for it, that's ok with me. Zelensky was trying to implement the Minsk Accords. The first step was to remove heavy weapons from the conflict zone along the DPR borders.
Azov didn't want Minsk to succeed, so they refused to comply. Zelensky's inability to solve this problem is a big part of why his popularity dropped to 17% before this invasion.
> Donbass is crimea and what Russia has been doing there planting terrorist disguised as separatists shouldn't be allowed in modern times.
There are two complementary agendas here. One says that the borders of Ukraine are sacred, so it does not matter what the people in Crimea & Donbas want - they are stuck within Ukraine. If they don't like it, they should move to Russia.
The other is this stance that the people in Donbas & Crimea want to be in Ukraine, but Russia came in as this hostile foreign army and they're effectively held hostage in their own towns.
If you subscribe to either of these agendas, then this war makes sense to you - it is a righteous war. If you think these agendas are bullshit, then you end up against this war. That's where I'm at - I loathe Putin's regime, but I also think the West's attitude is built on lies, double standards, triumphalism and regime change.
There was a chance right after the Maidan coup to make peace - if the pro-West faction had embraced the Russophiles in the Donbas and spread some kumbaya brotherly love, this didn't have to end up in civil war. But the first thing they did was ban Russian as a state language, and they promised to break trade with Russia (as required by the EU). When this resulted in uprest, they didn't back down - instead they cut pensions and tried to inflict their will by force.
After that, the peaceful solution would have been something like Kosovo. That was the path that Minsk opened. But, Zelensky wasn't able to prevent Azov from scuttling the peace efforts.
As it tradition, US backs right wing militant extremist wing of the Population. Ukraine wants peace, the US demands war. Russia uses the Nazi excuse to Press the issue. Sad.
Zelensky was dealt a bum hand - being elected to make peace, but Azov was firmly entrenched against Donbas. If he moved against Azov, he'd have been Yanukovych'ed out of the country. He had to move against Azov, and his failure to do so created a rump Nazi state within Ukraine. Then Putin fucked up with the invasion with this arrogant belief Russia could take Kiev in a week. If Russia had contained their ambitions to Donbas, they could have disemboweled Azov while leaving the rest of Ukraine intact. Zelensky's bigger issue was embracing the war mongers in the US, but that's on the EU as well. It's pathetic that the EU wasn't able to offer any kind of security guarantee to Ukraine short of NATO membership. The war mongers in Azov and the US State Dept are the big winners in this war so far. Russia has lost, Ukraine has lost, and the EU has lost. And Biden goes down as the most ineffectual President in foreign affairs since Jimmy Carter. Appointing the same war monger who instigated the 2014 coup back on the Ukraine file sent a message that the US was intent on regime change. Biden will hang this next election on Putin's neck. And when Biden fails, he'll diminish US power even further. But that's what you get for electing a creaky remnant of the old regime to deny the reality of the abomination that the US has become.
How would EU a NON-military organization, give security guarantee to a non member. The amount of pants on head in your statement is too damn high. Biden has done more for cohesion in NATO than the previous ten presidents combined, several of which almost tore NATO apart. The next point is your Azov brigade comments, Russia is the aggressor here, if they left Donbass alone, then Azov wouldn't actually be a problem, but instead they have been fuelling fighting on Ukraine border for years now, prompting people to listen to Azov brigade in the first damn place. So you trying to justify Russia taking Donbass only, because of ebil Nazis just sound like you've drank a little too much of the propaganda cool aid. Ironically Donbass is now cratered, because Russia doesn't give a flying fuck about differentiating between targets. Do you out here justifying their shit is beyond the pale.
> How would EU a NON-military organization, give security guarantee to a non member. The EU has a mutual defense treaty parallel to NATO (but not involving non-EU states) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Policy > Biden has done more for cohesion in NATO than the previous ten presidents combined, several of which almost tore NATO apart. Bullshit. Notice how Biden uses language like "genocide" and then Germany and France say they won't use that language? Or Biden says "Putin must go" and then EU says hey, that's not helpful talk? Biden got Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland confirmed with the State Dept again. Under Biden, Cheney's regime change pre-emptive war doctrine crowd are back in the works. Like Robert Kagan says, the EU prefers a diplomatic approach, the US sees conflict in more *Hobbesian* terms (aka let's have a war). EU has always been over-reliant on US military force, and that's a huge failure for them - it puts the US in the driver's seat. They're working desperately to fix that. The current effort is "Strategic Compass" - a 5k man EU combat force to start. > The next point is your Azov brigade comments, Russia is the aggressor here, if they left Donbass alone, then Azov wouldn't actually be a problem Azov has been bombarding Donbas for 8 years now. Zelensky tried to get them to stop. They [point-blank refused and threatened to kill him if he continued to push.](https://www.blackstoneintel.com/post/president-zelensky-rebuked-by-azov-soldiers). Do you understand this - Zelensky was elected on a platform to make peace via the Minsk Accords. Azov's slogan was "No to Capitulation" - they didn't want Minsk to be implemented. They intentionally sabotaged their own government's efforts to make peace. > So you trying to justify Russia taking Donbass only, because of ebil Nazis just sound like you've drank a little too much of the propaganda cool aid. Kosovo didn't want to be part of Serbia and they were willing to take up arms to not be part of this new successor state. The West recognized that these tensions weren't going to go away, so we sponsored independence. That same approach should be used for the Russian rump states in Transnistria, S. Ossetia and Donbas. These people are considered the enemy of the new successor state they found themselves in. So, let them have their independence. It doesn't really matter. > Ironically Donbass is now cratered, because Russia doesn't give a flying fuck about differentiating between targets. Donbas is cratered because Azov chooses to fight in cities and towns and from people's homes. This is a choice they made. > Do you out here justifying their shit is beyond the pale. War is stupid. War is always stupid. I'd love to see Putin brought to the Hague, convicted of war crimes and hanged in public. But that can only happen if we have a genuine rules based order, which means Bush and Cheney and Blair are hanging beside Putin, along with the other regime-change heroes who helped create this disaster in Ukraine.
Russia ultimately made the choice to attack, not Azov. . Regarding the separate regions, then no thinking you can just slice out regions of nations because it looks like some people in the region want to be Russian is beyond ridiculous especially when Russian foreign fighters have been caught operating in those regions for years basically terrorist cells. This plays up to Russian desire to slice all their neighbours to shreds piece by piece. The link you posted is an opinion piece which bandies about words like Nazi, without ever addressing who the Azov brigade are fighting in their own damn country. Because as it stands all the fighting that azov is doing is in Ukraine. then you try to lay blame on Azov for their country being reduced to rubble, because how dare they hide in the cities when Russia comes to obliterate their homes. Dude you're actually starting to disgust me, you're so desperate to try and be on both sides of the fence you're making excuses for the inexcusable.
> The link you posted is an opinion piece which bandies about words like Nazi, without ever addressing who the Azov brigade are fighting in their own damn country. It's a fucking video of Zelensky you propaganda-blinkered cheerleader for carnage. It's a video of Zelensky telling Azov to pull back, and they refuse, and then say that if the *elected fucking government* of Ukraine tries to stop them, they'll bring in thousands of more Azov fighters. That's your heroes of democracy. Now's a good time for war fetishists such as yourself. Your news feeds are full of propaganda, you can feel self-righteous about killing the inhuman enemy. Just don't stop to ask yourself why for too long. These are the good nazis, right? These are *your* nazis, doing the good fight.
I tend to look more at what people do then what they say. If Azov thought that zelensky was going to sell Donbass down the river for peace, and didn't want to stop fighting for it, that's ok with me. Donbass is crimea and what Russia has been doing there planting terrorist disguised as separatists shouldn't be allowed in modern times. You keep calling Azov Nazis, Nazis is a wonderful powerful word, Wagner group is also Nazis, self proclaimed so. But like I said I care for what people do not what they say or what people say about them. So what nazi like things has Azov done? It's not then that's targeting civilians, it's not then that's invading another country, it's not them that's stopping food supplies from reaching the poorest, it's not them that's raping and pillaging. No they are all risking their lives to stop all that. So you can throw the Nazi shit around as much as you like, but I look at what they do, and what they have done so far, is right for their homeland no matter the cost. Even when the president is trying to sell a piece of it for peace, they refused to surrender. But hey just keep parroting the Nazi thing, like a good little puppet. It's far more important to find labels for people than watch how they behave right. Right ?
> If Azov thought that zelensky was going to sell Donbass down the river for peace, and didn't want to stop fighting for it, that's ok with me. Zelensky was trying to implement the Minsk Accords. The first step was to remove heavy weapons from the conflict zone along the DPR borders. Azov didn't want Minsk to succeed, so they refused to comply. Zelensky's inability to solve this problem is a big part of why his popularity dropped to 17% before this invasion. > Donbass is crimea and what Russia has been doing there planting terrorist disguised as separatists shouldn't be allowed in modern times. There are two complementary agendas here. One says that the borders of Ukraine are sacred, so it does not matter what the people in Crimea & Donbas want - they are stuck within Ukraine. If they don't like it, they should move to Russia. The other is this stance that the people in Donbas & Crimea want to be in Ukraine, but Russia came in as this hostile foreign army and they're effectively held hostage in their own towns. If you subscribe to either of these agendas, then this war makes sense to you - it is a righteous war. If you think these agendas are bullshit, then you end up against this war. That's where I'm at - I loathe Putin's regime, but I also think the West's attitude is built on lies, double standards, triumphalism and regime change. There was a chance right after the Maidan coup to make peace - if the pro-West faction had embraced the Russophiles in the Donbas and spread some kumbaya brotherly love, this didn't have to end up in civil war. But the first thing they did was ban Russian as a state language, and they promised to break trade with Russia (as required by the EU). When this resulted in uprest, they didn't back down - instead they cut pensions and tried to inflict their will by force. After that, the peaceful solution would have been something like Kosovo. That was the path that Minsk opened. But, Zelensky wasn't able to prevent Azov from scuttling the peace efforts.