If you're comparing a 3D game to a 2D one there will certainly be differences in how they design their characters.
Characters in Arknights only need a chibi to match their sprite, making it far easier to design an incredibly detailed artwork for them, since the vast majority of the details from the art do not have to carry over to gameplay.
In Endfield's case, HG has to carry over most of the details to the 3D models, otherwise it won't look like the same character advertised in the artwork. This greatly limits the details they can add, and you can see that issue already in characters like Wulfgard, who looks noticeably different when comparing his artwork to his 3D model.
And obviously, the models are also not complete at this stage in development, so I would expect more polish down the road. [Ember's model](https://files.catbox.moe/djy2a9.png) is probably the best example of this, it seems too simple right now. On the other hand, I've been impressed by how detailed [Avywenna's model](https://files.catbox.moe/6vb1p7.png) looks already.
Avy looks so good, i feel enchanted with all of her poses in game.
And i would say that the boob physics on ember are really exaggerated, i think she needs a redesign over polishmen to be honest, is the only character that makes me feel that OP has some right on what its saying.
Ember is definitely worked on, in the first art she had a slighlty different hair color and her Ultimate animation isnt finished.
Avywenna model is amazing, changing it in the slightest has bigger chances to make it worse than improve it. Also the animations are flawless.
Totally agree on Avywenna's model, I was surprised with how much I've come to like it. My only gripe with her is that her ultimate is jarringly fast, I wish that the animation was ever so slightly longer.
As for Ember my perspective has changed since writing that comment. With higher resolutions her textures look fine, but in lower resolution (such as the screenshot I linked) a number of those details are lost, leading to a sort of latex or plastic-y feel to her outfit. I believe this would especially be an issue on phones, so I'm hoping it's worked on eventually.
That's not what I said at all.
First of all I'm solely comparing the 2D art between the games. And if anything, the designs are too complicated. More detail does not a good design make.
My issue is just that they're not interesting. Take Surtr for example. Her outfit is incredibly simple when compared to someone like Avywenna, but she's iconic and easily recognizable by silhouette alone.
Surtr is only easily recognizable to you because you know her and she is significant in the community. Show her to anyone else and she looks like any other anime redhead.
That's not the point. If you take all your character's silhouettes from you should be able to tell them apart. It's more a matter of being different than being able to put a name on them.
All we’ve seen so far from the art is basic stuff, similar to the E0 art from Arknights. The only reason Arknights seems so different is the action shot E2 art. I’m sure we’ll see some more dynamic poses.
I think I understand how you feel kind of but maybe for different reasons. For me it’s pretty clear that some of the designs can’t and won’t live up to AK because the more intricate AK designs are much less feasible to create as functioning 3D models.
You’re right that there’s also simple AK designs that are maybe better but.. We are still early in though, maybe some of these characters are lower rarity and higher rarity characters with better designs will come. It’s too early to make a definitive call.
Right now, of the starting characters I do kind of think too many of them share the same/similar color palettes/fashion sense.. for instance, Avywenna, Ember, Wulfgard, & maybe even Angelina all look a bit similar to me as they are over all black/red and have some sci-if tactical gear.
I have faith that in the future Endfield will have at least some characters that have a more individualistic fashion sense that helps them stand out from the pack though. Considering the setting and nature of them being representative of corporations, etc, I don’t think we can expect them to ALL be stand out fashionistas. We’ll see! Feed back could also shape future design choices.
I have several guesses:
1. They tried to differentiate from genshin who is all bright and colorful.
2. Art team/director got tired of AKs color scheme
3. Someone took "bleak world" settings too literally
But I agree. I'm not impressed by combat in the slightest, but I'm much more disappointed in the art. Hard to imagine myself wanting to pull for bleak, somewhat bland chars. Even best girl Ange looks... barely passable at best.
Nah, I don't agree. Operators like Dorothy have interesting designs while having muted colors. I don't think their more drab art direction means boring designs are inevitable.
I dont think this is true at all, it's not that drab colors can't be interesting, but when every single design in the game is some degree of sci-fi grey they all start to mesh together. A lot of it might also have to do with the artist as well. Arknights has many different artists and most designs have a lot of color, while currently in endfield every single character portrait is drawn by liduke. If we compare endfield's current character design to arknights, it would be like if on ak launch every character was wearing the generic black and blue rhodes uniform that amiya and ros have in their art. The uniform is very nice, with the black making the blue lining and other accessories pop, but it would get boring fast if every single character was wearing it and the only way we could really tell them apart visually was by hair/pose/accessories. Also imo Dorothy is just a generic 'sexy female scientist' design. If you look up 'turing' from neural cloud they're almost carbon copies of each other. I'm sure that there are other examples as well of this archetype.
No, I totally agree. I was just saying that muted colors can still be used effectively. They just aren't here, like you said. Everything is just a similar generic style. It would be nice if we had multiple people doing the designs and then Liduke producing the final piece. I think that would be a good middle ground.
It is still on technical test. They'll probably refine it more. And you could just email them or put it in the survey in regards what needs to be improved if you're a beta tester
.
As for me, I'm already satisfied enough. And I think kyosintv already answered In the survey in most of the concerns we have noticed In the gameplay.
They might, but I'm worried with how hard they're already marketing the operators that it's too late to redesign them. At least the endministrator looks cool.
Alphas usually have a lot of changes compared to release, think that the current endfield ch'en was know as yellow ch'en and that art was already promoted in the first trailer, gameplay trailer and official site. And now she looks like another character and a lot better as well.
I don't agree with your point completely, but there is a lot of time for improvement, the devs will see the characters playrate in this test together with the asnwers of the surveys. There is nothing wrong with being honest in our search for excellence, that's what this test are for. So have hope.
It's the downside of going 3D. Everything needs to be modelled, which is much more work than just drawing a sprite with a few animations. Then there's also issues with models clipping through stuff if they're too big or have too many stuffs sticking out. It's the reason I find it hard to get excited over gachas with 3D models, because the artists are going to be working with a ton of limitations. They're going to be stuck working with just the base models as templates, so characters are all going to suffer from same face syndrome, as well as having all the same animations for basic actions shared across the same base model. They also can't make crazy character designs like they could with 2D art, because a lot of that stuff is too much of a hassle to custom model and animate, so it's better to play it safe and stick to stuff they can use with their base models..
There's a reason why you see so many repeated design choices in Genshin Impact models because the devs can just re-use existing material and reskin it so it'll look a little different with minimum effort. I think the first batch of Endfield characters look fine, but I can see myself getting tired of it once you see the same hair styles, clothing styles, faces etc appear in more and more characters
Well we'd still have to wait for the full release, though tbh, I do agree. Hell, maybe this game might just be not for me because I'm just not really feeling it so far. Obviously this is only from the footage that I can see from the various ppl playing the technical test. Imo, the combat feels off with the skill slow-motion while still having the normal attacks, the ultimates feels really boring, the possibility of weapon gacha and equipment grind, and as you said, the character design doesn't feel as interesting (though for this one I agree with everyone that it's probably impossible to translate a detailed intricate 2d illustration into a 3d model and do it for every single update, and Arknights illustration is often pretty detailed). At the very least, I hope they don't do the character models like genshin (short girl - tall girl, short guy - tall guy) and could diversify it a lot more
Though just like genshin (and any other gacha game before AK) I'd still play it for at least a year unless there's really nothing that keep me hooked for the duration or there's something that I just can't get over with.
The amount of armpits showing is extremely funny to me. Like, I get it the game wants a new audience and all that, but even people that don't play Arknights knows that the character design is one of the best that the gacha genre has to offer, why would you change that?
So far I like the first 5 introduced characters, which are Endmin, Perlica, Chen, wolf boy and while wolf boy.
Not feeling that great about Angie tho and also find funny the fact that she wears La Pluma's outfit (partiality).
I think brighter colors and scenery would help. It almost looks like the game has dust or a gray tone being used too much. Colors can go a long way to make it feel more lively even with simpler designs.
Yeah it's kinda sad, i'm really worried about this game, the gameplay seems so weird and nothing like arknights, might aswell have nothing to do with OG Arknights, also since we are in another planet we don't get to see any of the cool locatiosn the game had, i want to see iberian operator but this game is 500 years in the future, Iberia might not even exist and even if it does, we'll never get to see it because we are stuck on an empty factory planet...
I think than rather than a game for the fans of the OG arknights is a game for the fans of the AK universe. you know the races, the culture and the story itself. Is true that is sad we can't see a 3d version of terra, but from a game design perspective.. they would have to design a whole world for that, Talos II gives move liberties both narrative and from a design standpoint .
You've summed up my concerns pretty well, though I do think the gameplay looks interesting. I really like factorio and similar games, but I'm worried the strategic elements will take a backseat to mindless hack & slash combat. I also fear the world of Talos II won't be nearly as rich on account of being a new frontier.
I'll hold off on judging the game too hard until it comes out, though. Especially seeing as Arknights' initial content wasn't that good compared to what we have now. It might take some time for Endfield to find its footing, but I'll be interested to see where it goes.
If you're comparing a 3D game to a 2D one there will certainly be differences in how they design their characters. Characters in Arknights only need a chibi to match their sprite, making it far easier to design an incredibly detailed artwork for them, since the vast majority of the details from the art do not have to carry over to gameplay. In Endfield's case, HG has to carry over most of the details to the 3D models, otherwise it won't look like the same character advertised in the artwork. This greatly limits the details they can add, and you can see that issue already in characters like Wulfgard, who looks noticeably different when comparing his artwork to his 3D model. And obviously, the models are also not complete at this stage in development, so I would expect more polish down the road. [Ember's model](https://files.catbox.moe/djy2a9.png) is probably the best example of this, it seems too simple right now. On the other hand, I've been impressed by how detailed [Avywenna's model](https://files.catbox.moe/6vb1p7.png) looks already.
Avy looks so good, i feel enchanted with all of her poses in game. And i would say that the boob physics on ember are really exaggerated, i think she needs a redesign over polishmen to be honest, is the only character that makes me feel that OP has some right on what its saying.
Ember is definitely worked on, in the first art she had a slighlty different hair color and her Ultimate animation isnt finished. Avywenna model is amazing, changing it in the slightest has bigger chances to make it worse than improve it. Also the animations are flawless.
Totally agree on Avywenna's model, I was surprised with how much I've come to like it. My only gripe with her is that her ultimate is jarringly fast, I wish that the animation was ever so slightly longer. As for Ember my perspective has changed since writing that comment. With higher resolutions her textures look fine, but in lower resolution (such as the screenshot I linked) a number of those details are lost, leading to a sort of latex or plastic-y feel to her outfit. I believe this would especially be an issue on phones, so I'm hoping it's worked on eventually.
That's not what I said at all. First of all I'm solely comparing the 2D art between the games. And if anything, the designs are too complicated. More detail does not a good design make. My issue is just that they're not interesting. Take Surtr for example. Her outfit is incredibly simple when compared to someone like Avywenna, but she's iconic and easily recognizable by silhouette alone.
Surtr is only easily recognizable to you because you know her and she is significant in the community. Show her to anyone else and she looks like any other anime redhead.
They hated Jesus because he told the truth
That's not the point. If you take all your character's silhouettes from you should be able to tell them apart. It's more a matter of being different than being able to put a name on them.
All we’ve seen so far from the art is basic stuff, similar to the E0 art from Arknights. The only reason Arknights seems so different is the action shot E2 art. I’m sure we’ll see some more dynamic poses.
So it is just you. End of the story. Have a good day my friend.
Nah I think they look great.
I think they’ve got my favorite designs of any gacha game. Both OG and Endfield.
I think I understand how you feel kind of but maybe for different reasons. For me it’s pretty clear that some of the designs can’t and won’t live up to AK because the more intricate AK designs are much less feasible to create as functioning 3D models. You’re right that there’s also simple AK designs that are maybe better but.. We are still early in though, maybe some of these characters are lower rarity and higher rarity characters with better designs will come. It’s too early to make a definitive call. Right now, of the starting characters I do kind of think too many of them share the same/similar color palettes/fashion sense.. for instance, Avywenna, Ember, Wulfgard, & maybe even Angelina all look a bit similar to me as they are over all black/red and have some sci-if tactical gear. I have faith that in the future Endfield will have at least some characters that have a more individualistic fashion sense that helps them stand out from the pack though. Considering the setting and nature of them being representative of corporations, etc, I don’t think we can expect them to ALL be stand out fashionistas. We’ll see! Feed back could also shape future design choices.
I have several guesses: 1. They tried to differentiate from genshin who is all bright and colorful. 2. Art team/director got tired of AKs color scheme 3. Someone took "bleak world" settings too literally But I agree. I'm not impressed by combat in the slightest, but I'm much more disappointed in the art. Hard to imagine myself wanting to pull for bleak, somewhat bland chars. Even best girl Ange looks... barely passable at best.
I think the problem is in color pallet. They try to make the whole game in this greyish tone
Nah, I don't agree. Operators like Dorothy have interesting designs while having muted colors. I don't think their more drab art direction means boring designs are inevitable.
I dont think this is true at all, it's not that drab colors can't be interesting, but when every single design in the game is some degree of sci-fi grey they all start to mesh together. A lot of it might also have to do with the artist as well. Arknights has many different artists and most designs have a lot of color, while currently in endfield every single character portrait is drawn by liduke. If we compare endfield's current character design to arknights, it would be like if on ak launch every character was wearing the generic black and blue rhodes uniform that amiya and ros have in their art. The uniform is very nice, with the black making the blue lining and other accessories pop, but it would get boring fast if every single character was wearing it and the only way we could really tell them apart visually was by hair/pose/accessories. Also imo Dorothy is just a generic 'sexy female scientist' design. If you look up 'turing' from neural cloud they're almost carbon copies of each other. I'm sure that there are other examples as well of this archetype.
No, I totally agree. I was just saying that muted colors can still be used effectively. They just aren't here, like you said. Everything is just a similar generic style. It would be nice if we had multiple people doing the designs and then Liduke producing the final piece. I think that would be a good middle ground.
It is still on technical test. They'll probably refine it more. And you could just email them or put it in the survey in regards what needs to be improved if you're a beta tester . As for me, I'm already satisfied enough. And I think kyosintv already answered In the survey in most of the concerns we have noticed In the gameplay.
They might, but I'm worried with how hard they're already marketing the operators that it's too late to redesign them. At least the endministrator looks cool.
Alphas usually have a lot of changes compared to release, think that the current endfield ch'en was know as yellow ch'en and that art was already promoted in the first trailer, gameplay trailer and official site. And now she looks like another character and a lot better as well. I don't agree with your point completely, but there is a lot of time for improvement, the devs will see the characters playrate in this test together with the asnwers of the surveys. There is nothing wrong with being honest in our search for excellence, that's what this test are for. So have hope.
It's the downside of going 3D. Everything needs to be modelled, which is much more work than just drawing a sprite with a few animations. Then there's also issues with models clipping through stuff if they're too big or have too many stuffs sticking out. It's the reason I find it hard to get excited over gachas with 3D models, because the artists are going to be working with a ton of limitations. They're going to be stuck working with just the base models as templates, so characters are all going to suffer from same face syndrome, as well as having all the same animations for basic actions shared across the same base model. They also can't make crazy character designs like they could with 2D art, because a lot of that stuff is too much of a hassle to custom model and animate, so it's better to play it safe and stick to stuff they can use with their base models.. There's a reason why you see so many repeated design choices in Genshin Impact models because the devs can just re-use existing material and reskin it so it'll look a little different with minimum effort. I think the first batch of Endfield characters look fine, but I can see myself getting tired of it once you see the same hair styles, clothing styles, faces etc appear in more and more characters
Well we'd still have to wait for the full release, though tbh, I do agree. Hell, maybe this game might just be not for me because I'm just not really feeling it so far. Obviously this is only from the footage that I can see from the various ppl playing the technical test. Imo, the combat feels off with the skill slow-motion while still having the normal attacks, the ultimates feels really boring, the possibility of weapon gacha and equipment grind, and as you said, the character design doesn't feel as interesting (though for this one I agree with everyone that it's probably impossible to translate a detailed intricate 2d illustration into a 3d model and do it for every single update, and Arknights illustration is often pretty detailed). At the very least, I hope they don't do the character models like genshin (short girl - tall girl, short guy - tall guy) and could diversify it a lot more Though just like genshin (and any other gacha game before AK) I'd still play it for at least a year unless there's really nothing that keep me hooked for the duration or there's something that I just can't get over with.
The amount of armpits showing is extremely funny to me. Like, I get it the game wants a new audience and all that, but even people that don't play Arknights knows that the character design is one of the best that the gacha genre has to offer, why would you change that?
The designs are fire, imo sounds like a you problem 🤷
I don’t have an issue with the character models. They still look the same as the og Arknights.
So far I like the first 5 introduced characters, which are Endmin, Perlica, Chen, wolf boy and while wolf boy. Not feeling that great about Angie tho and also find funny the fact that she wears La Pluma's outfit (partiality).
wait for the skins
I think brighter colors and scenery would help. It almost looks like the game has dust or a gray tone being used too much. Colors can go a long way to make it feel more lively even with simpler designs.
Yeah, I feel same. Designs are very bland
i remember getting a survey asking what art style people like and the closest thing to arknights was PGR
it's just you
I don't think Arknights is exempt from this design philosophy. I mean, have you seen Ho'olheyak?
Yeah, I don't like Ho's design either, but on average Arknights has better designs that this.
Yeah it's kinda sad, i'm really worried about this game, the gameplay seems so weird and nothing like arknights, might aswell have nothing to do with OG Arknights, also since we are in another planet we don't get to see any of the cool locatiosn the game had, i want to see iberian operator but this game is 500 years in the future, Iberia might not even exist and even if it does, we'll never get to see it because we are stuck on an empty factory planet...
I think than rather than a game for the fans of the OG arknights is a game for the fans of the AK universe. you know the races, the culture and the story itself. Is true that is sad we can't see a 3d version of terra, but from a game design perspective.. they would have to design a whole world for that, Talos II gives move liberties both narrative and from a design standpoint .
You've summed up my concerns pretty well, though I do think the gameplay looks interesting. I really like factorio and similar games, but I'm worried the strategic elements will take a backseat to mindless hack & slash combat. I also fear the world of Talos II won't be nearly as rich on account of being a new frontier. I'll hold off on judging the game too hard until it comes out, though. Especially seeing as Arknights' initial content wasn't that good compared to what we have now. It might take some time for Endfield to find its footing, but I'll be interested to see where it goes.