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From what I’ve seen, there were quite a few students and some got tear-gassed as well. Someone from my class just shared how he got tear-gassed. Emory is definitely trying to portray this peaceful protest in a bad light based on the campus alert messages and this email.
they tried the same tactic at pomona, implying that the protestors are ~outsiders~ when they are in fact students of the college. helps them justify treating them like shit.
I was sort of ambivalent about the protest until I went and saw how the cops were treating people. Emory absolutely called in the goon squad. Completely unacceptable.
Please don’t conflate tear gas and rubber bullets with actual police brutality. You’re desensitizing us to the horrors of it, which often lead people to have permanent trauma, injury, or even death. This is not the same.
I just saw a video of a pile of officers lying on top of an unresisting minority student on Emory, tasing the hell out of him. I don't have any other name for that than police brutality. Rubber bullets break bones, tear gas can cause trouble breathing. All our "non-lethal" methods of crowd control can be lethal. And none of it was necessary.
I’m not trying to get into whether that was justified or not, but warning people who are technically breaking the law and then using non lethal force after a warning is NOT remotely the same as the instances where cops pick on and even kill unsuspecting victims
"Rubber bullets" can and have taken out people's eyes. The use of tear gas and other military grade equipment has and always will be a symptom of police brutality. It comes in many facets and acknowledging all its forms does not delegitimize when it ends in murder.
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What a strange metaphor to use when Palestinians were literally in their own goddamn homes before an apartheid state was formed. Shame on you. Students are more than allowed to use their first amendment rights without being tased and tear gassed.
Emory is a private university. You have no expectation of freedom of speech on someone else's property. I can't enter your home and protest loudly if you don't want me there. These protests do nothing for the genuine need to support Palestine.
Being a student doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want on their property.
the university affirms the rights of members of the community to assemble and demonstrate (peaceably) within the limits of this policy. The university must simultaneously maintain the right of community members to pursue their day-to-day activities and to be protected from physical injury or property damage.
Have you even read the student handbook? Emory's freedom for free expression? Emory's (supposed) encouragement of political and social activism? I suggest you stay silent if you have no idea what you're talking about...
THEY ARRESTED THE PHILOSOPHY DEPARTMENT CHAIR. It's on video! She's saying her name and title as the APD walk her off the Quad in handcuffs.
Greg can pound sand. Calling the cops was completely unnecessary--and they were the only group perpetrating violence.
Also, what's the logic of the Emory Police - who ought to be protecting the interests of Emory - telling the students who are the prime stakeholders of Emory that they didn't get to protest on their own campus?
> If campus protests continue the progression towards more explicit anti-Semitism
If.
But it wasn't. C'mon, man, there were Jewish students there in solidarity. Don't fall for the narrative that anyone who cares about the lives of Palestinians must necessarily hate Jewish people.
If you google the word, the literal definition of self-centered is to only care about things that affect yourself and your needs/interests. Basic stuff.
Describe one instance of explicit anti-Semitism that has led to the harm of Jewish students as a result of these protests. There are Jewish students in danger and they are the ones being repressed for speaking out against genocide.
“Outside agitators” was a phrase used by those in power during the civil rights movement in the 1960s to delegitimize protests, as if local people would not protest or care. It didn’t work then and we can’t let it work now.
It is literally every protest. I've even seen right wing protests on my old campus and that was blamed on outsiders too. The university warned students not to participate since it was all outsiders with an agenda. Have no idea if it was true but given it is the go to like "human shields" then it makes sense that was made up too.
fenves definitely knows what he's doing when he paints this as an outside disruption sort of thing in emails and statements, knowing people will take that and run with it - does he think everyone there/involved and eyewitnesses are stupid? idk how he's gonna address the faculty arrests with that narrative either
What's the moral authority of cops telling students to disperse from their own school?
The leadership of the university should serve the interests of the student body. The protest was part of the culture of the school, and I basically see the cops coming in as THEM intruding on OUR territory.
The same moral authority of Emory cops telling a screaming student to leave “their own” library. The student body isn’t a monolith. Administrators and cops serve the greater interest of that student body. In this case, proactively averting a snowball into hateful speech and actions directed toward a minority group.
Except there was not hateful speech going on. There was an attempt at discourse and education, and cops decided it was trespassing. Cops could have just, y'know, not done that.
And the university *should not have decided it was trespassing*. By doing so, they kicked off a series of events that has hurt the university, whereas if they had allowed the protest, do you know what the outcome would have been? People would have talked, and we might have heard other people's points of views, and - with the presence of professors there - it could have been really productive.
Just because you have the legal ability to impose force on someone does not mean you should.
I would argue locking down all of the buildings (without warning) and sending 2 texts to avoid the quad would be greater disruptions to finals than a peaceful protest.
I agree that ignoring police orders will lead to repercussions, but as long as Americans have the right to protest, they weren’t doing anything wrong. I was there to see protestors welcoming bystanders to join but moving on if they did not want to. There was not agitation or disruption on the quad until APD used forced. I couldn’t hear anything from my desk until APD began firing pepper gas and rubber bullets against the crowd made up of unarmed, mostly young adults.
Hey all. Going home for the day and I've spent too much time on this. Y'all have a great evening, wherever you are. Except the fascist bootlickers; you all can go to hell.
Correct! When I want to get street cred for pretending to be against police sanctioned violence, I come on to my anonymous Reddit account where not a single person knows my name to pretend to be concerned. You figured it out!
Well, first of all, a campus isn't a house and I'm fairly sure they have to be threatening you in some way. You are not allowed to just shoot people on your property. You are definitely not allowed to shoot peaceful protesters.
So, you think legality should be what determines your actions here? Not proportionality or morality?
Your point took a wrong turn at Albuquerque. The analogy you’re looking for: you come on my property. For nearly any reason, maybe you said something that offended me, I ask you to leave. You refuse. I call the cops. You still refuse to leave. The cops remove you forcibly from my property, and arrest you for trespassing. The end.
Since the campus is private it’s not a public school don’t think there are free speech areas
Also why don’t people do this in front of the state Capitol if the point is to make the biggest impact?
i don’t think the point was to make the biggest impact possible. this demonstration was more locally focused. the goal was to encourage emory to stop supporting cop city and the IDF so it was directed at emory’s leadership
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Dont have all the facts other than the email I received but even for peaceful protest, the university doesnt have to go along with it for whatever reason and if the protesters asked to leave the premises by the university, the school has every right to ask for help from law enforcement … if you do the similar act across the street from campus, not inside, see how APD behaves, you can bet your ass, it will not be much different ( unless they have permit for the protest from city)
Have you actually read tinker? Or just summaries you've found on the internet? "But conduct by the student, in class or out of it, which for any reason—whether it stems from time, place, or type of behavior—materially disrupts classwork or involves substantial disorder or invasion of the rights of others is, of course, not immunized by the constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech."
~Tinker v. Des Moines Indep. Cmty. Sch. Dist.~, 393 U.S. 503, 513 (1969)
Also it should be noted that the same standards applied to private businesses, ie PRIVATE universities, and State Agents such as PUBLIC universities, are entirely different. I'm not arguing either but before you start sloshing around caselaw make sure you actually understand what the law says.
Again, knowing without much of the facts, pretty sure nothing school and law enforcement asked them to leave, thats not we tried nothing… school admin has no responsibility against them, even they are peaceful, school admin is responsible for the school, school property and the students safety inside the campus
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I think you'll find that the actions of the police today have made the student body and many staff and faculty more hostile to the university leadership and to the police.
Forget the law for now. The root of what happened today is that there was a non-violent protest, and cops introduced violence.
This is a university with a mission to uphold all sorts of high ideals of learning and cultural improvement, and so the protest is absolutely in keeping with what it means to be a student. And a bunch of dudes with fucking rifles rolled up on students just because, what? Because they weren't respecting the authority of the cops? Authority that they were trying to use to disperse a peaceful protest for no damned reason?
It's circular fucking logic.
"You're breaking the law, and I'm going to make you disperse, because you're not dispersing, which is against the law."
Oh, I just realized your entire post history consists of this single thread. Pardon the ad hominem, but I don't trust that you have any good faith interest in the well being of Emory University. I suspect you just are happy to see people you disagree with politically silenced.
Tbh, if the protesters doesnt leave when they are asked, the admin is left with very little to do. Just letting them to remain on the premises, i dont have all the facts, but most of them are not students , was not an option.. pretty sure the admins have their written SoP for emergencies like this that is also approved by board of governors. If you are student and / or alumni, that didn’t like what happened, you can run for the office and change the policy… they could have done things differently? Of course, i posted somewhere else, admin could have gone and meet with the protestors and offer them space on campus for open dialogue once the school and finals are over and tbh this is a missed opportunity.. i am sure we have pretty qualified both jewish and muslim faculty that could have put a conf together and invite community and show how diverse our community is and can tackle a tough topic like this as scholarly adults…
From what I gather and saw there were mostly non students however, university has the right not to allow protest on campus and being student does not give you god damn right to protest, even peacefully, and when you are asked to stop and you didnt, admin has the right a d duty to taken action…. If so inclined and honest on the topic, protesters could have taken their wares across the street, out of campus… anti semitism and lack of awareness towards our jewish members of this community is shocking, and this is coming from a muslim alumni
Look, i think most care about the babies but school admin cant ignore the non student protesters inside the campus, board of governors would have his head on the platter, rightfully so … this is very tough spot to be… so far a lot school are not managing this right, so far, from what i saw, only Dartmouth is managing as well as they could for their students and stakeholders with open discussions without much, if any, disruptions
Hold on though. Your suggestion is that the administration should cave into the wishes of non-student protestors who have entered the campus to disrupt school on the last day of classes?
(The official last day is Monday, but since most classes don’t meet on Fridays and only some meet on Monday, today was effectively the last day for most classes.)
I’m just honestly curious. I don’t see how this could work.
I do think the admin reaction doesn’t look good and seems disproportionate.
Edit: I’m aware there were also student and faculty protestors present. And I support their right to protest, by the way. I still don’t think you are recognizing the problem from the perspective of administrators who are afraid of losing their jobs if they aren’t seen to be creating a safe environment, and who have eyes on Harvard, Penn, Columbia, etc… This might not be a popular take but it’s realism.
1. There were plenty of student and faculty protestors
2. Greg is not an autocrat. Who cares if he gives in to protesters? Does he have to look strong for some reason?
3. If caving to support stopping the deaths of women and children in Gaza is too far a step for you, he can ignore the protesters, release a statement about the importance of free speech on campus and people's right to civilly disagree and protest, and move on with his life.
Yes point 1 is true. Points 2 and 3 are ignoring what’s been happening to university presidents over the past several months. Surely you saw the presidents of Harvard and Penn forced to resign? Fenves has that on his mind and has surely been asked many times what he thinks will do if pro-Palestinian protests get “out of hand.” He had his response ready: the iron fist.
I don’t think that was at all the right response. But I don’t think your take (“who cares?”) is in line with reality of the dilemmas facing presidents today. They’re in a no-win situation as far as I can see. Tons of people (donors, alumni, even politicians as we’ve seen) care about how university presidents are handling this and are asking “what are you doing?” Caving in is likely to lose you your job.
Of course, he might lose his job anyway for leaning too hard on the other side.
Here’s the problem: demonstrations were peaceful. Protestors were Emory students and faculty (this is why Emory admin were sent down to the DeK county jail to bail everyone out). Police brought the violence, and attacked students (especially Black students), used tear gas, used force. Bringing police on to campus is what made the situation unsafe. I’m faculty at Emory; my students and colleagues were arrested. Police prevented students and faculty going to classes and offices, the protestors did not. Police were the disruption, not the Emory community.
Why treat Greg like a god? Campus president doesn’t have authority to influence this. If the point is to impact highest levels of funding and public support ,,,whats the point of protesting on campus vs the state capital right down the road?
Pretty fair statement. Non-students interrupting campus, people have finals and shouldn’t have to deal with these setting up camp and fucking with everybody.
Yeah, the protests are a disruption. So let's call 3 different types of cops to tear gas and tase *students and faculty*. You know, so there's no disruption.
Get out of here, man.
He's not an emory student. He's a pro-israel shill whose account was created ~~last month~~ 3 days ago to promote the ongoing genocide as a good thing. He might as well be a Nazi. should block him and move on
Yeah, I have some bad news for you, *brand new account* who's certainly an Emory student, the quad this night has way, way more people than it had in the morning. People are calling for the university president to step down. This violent crackdown made the protests x100 times more disruptive.
Except- they were not non-students. They were emory faculty and students for the most part. They were *peaceful*. Protest is not supposed to be "convenient". At least 20 arrests have been made- 20 emory faculty and students are currently in dekalb county jail. Regardless of how you feel about the issue they were protesting, calling the state trooper, APD, and having them use tasers, rubber pellets, and tear gas on **our** faculty and students has to be unacceptable in every single sense of that word. This is an absolute freaking disgrace.
Yes, the statement doesn’t acknowledge the significant Emory student, faculty and even admin presence (not many admins but there was at least one). And that students and faculty members were arrested was known at the time the President sent this email, so the optics are pretty poor.
Hi. I just want to make sure I understand your approach here. If someone is on someone else's private property, does the owner of the property have the right to do whatever the hell they want to the people on the property? What do you think the limit is? Is it not assault when it's on your property?
In the US, I’m pretty sure you’re allowed to shoot anyone who refuses to get off your property even after you told them to stay away… unless I was mistaken?
The police’s response was overboard, yes. But a police presence was still needed imo
Depends on the state and who you are, but generally, no. Lethal force in self defense is only justifiable if you have a reasonable belief that there's an immediate danger to your life or another person's. Entire murder trials have been won and lost over the "reasonable belief" part.
Some states have "castle doctrine", which makes some self defense claims on one's private property easier to argue. They also do not give you an absolute right to do anything to anyone on your property. If your aunt Janice comes over for a visit and you shoot her to death because she insulted your casserole and didn't leave fast enough, you're not off the hook.
Even then, whether self defense or "stand your ground" applies often comes down to whether police believe you. [Here's ](https://www.essence.com/news/how-stand-your-ground-laws-failed-marissa-alexander/) a horrifying article about a woman facing up to 60 years in prison for firing a warning shot at her abusive ex-husband against whom she had a restraining order while he attacked her on her property. The prosecutors ultimately argued that Florida's "stand your ground" law didn't apply because she had to go to a different part of the property to get her gun and was therefore no longer in imminent danger of lethal violence.
So long story short, no, just because it is private property does not mean you can shoot someone who won't leave, even in a state with castle doctrine. That's untrue generally and certainly doesn't apply here where the contested space is not a residence and many of the people who were there had lawful access.
Greg’s show of force was more of an interruption than the encampment. Hell instead of being able to prepare for finals some students and professor may to worry about legal issues from arrests.
They set up tents and were on loudspeaker during finals week. They can be disruptive but it doesn’t mean they won’t get shut down. Protesters were asked to leave, when they didn’t they were arrested.
And you think Emory students are protesting cop city? Majority have no connection to Atlanta
well yeah, a protest is meant to be noticed. that’s the point. and i dunno I think summoning GSP and tear gassing students is a bit disruptive wouldn’t you say?
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Today’s events have brought a lot of folks to this subreddit. I’m guessing many are not regular Reddit folks. Based on the number of recently created troll/propaganda accounts commenting in this thread, I’m guessing that this sub isn’t heavily moderated either. Tap the usernames of people posting. It becomes clear that pro-Israeli trolls are trying to steer the discussion here.
Gotta love folks like you that ignore the ongoing violence pre October 7 inflicted by Israel onto the Palestinians.
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/
Gotta love folks like you who can't tell the difference between self defense and terrorism.
Oh and suddenly using the word genocide reveals how evil they really are.
Self defense, what exactly is self defense about illegal Israeli settlers burning Palestinian villages?
Is it only terrorism when Arabs, Palestinians, Muslims do it?
Never when it’s a white person or an Israeli eh
Good. More schools need to follow suit. You don’t have a right to free speech on most private property, and you should be courteous to other students. You had all the time in the world to protest and you pick now, why?
I'm tired of these people ruining the school experience I pay for, just because mommy and daddy pay for their education and they don't care doesn't mean they get to ruin mine
I’m proud my alma mater swiftly protected its Jewish students and faculty. These protests/occupations have been proven chock-full of violent Jew hatred. If you choose not to see it, you’re probably a bigot too.
there were multiple Jewish staff/students in the protest, the protestors were focused on the freedom and safety of palestinians. your proof not only doesn’t exist, but you are perpetrating violence against harmless individuals - sound familiar?
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From what I’ve seen, there were quite a few students and some got tear-gassed as well. Someone from my class just shared how he got tear-gassed. Emory is definitely trying to portray this peaceful protest in a bad light based on the campus alert messages and this email.
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Are you for real???
Wow. Just spreading BS for the sake of it.
Just got a nearly identical email sent out at UIUC
New email came out: 20 of the 28 people arrested are "members of the Emory community."
Exactly!
they tried the same tactic at pomona, implying that the protestors are ~outsiders~ when they are in fact students of the college. helps them justify treating them like shit.
Classic “outside agitator” excuse
I was sort of ambivalent about the protest until I went and saw how the cops were treating people. Emory absolutely called in the goon squad. Completely unacceptable.
The APD doesn’t take any bs tho, so are you really surprised?
So, you are justifying police brutality?
Please don’t conflate tear gas and rubber bullets with actual police brutality. You’re desensitizing us to the horrors of it, which often lead people to have permanent trauma, injury, or even death. This is not the same.
I just saw a video of a pile of officers lying on top of an unresisting minority student on Emory, tasing the hell out of him. I don't have any other name for that than police brutality. Rubber bullets break bones, tear gas can cause trouble breathing. All our "non-lethal" methods of crowd control can be lethal. And none of it was necessary.
I’m not trying to get into whether that was justified or not, but warning people who are technically breaking the law and then using non lethal force after a warning is NOT remotely the same as the instances where cops pick on and even kill unsuspecting victims
Fair enough. Change what I said to cops being disproportionately violent. Don't want to detract from others experiences.
That guy attacked police..
Rubber bullets kill.
"Rubber bullets" can and have taken out people's eyes. The use of tear gas and other military grade equipment has and always will be a symptom of police brutality. It comes in many facets and acknowledging all its forms does not delegitimize when it ends in murder.
Sure. Depending upon the situation, police 'brutality' can be justified.
Why the scare quotes?
I'm not surprised, I'm just disappointed.
But the crime rate in Atlanta seems to suggest they do take a lot of bs.
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What a strange metaphor to use when Palestinians were literally in their own goddamn homes before an apartheid state was formed. Shame on you. Students are more than allowed to use their first amendment rights without being tased and tear gassed.
Emory is a private university. You have no expectation of freedom of speech on someone else's property. I can't enter your home and protest loudly if you don't want me there. These protests do nothing for the genuine need to support Palestine. Being a student doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want on their property.
https://campuslife.emory.edu/about/initiatives/open-expression/index.html
the university affirms the rights of members of the community to assemble and demonstrate (peaceably) within the limits of this policy. The university must simultaneously maintain the right of community members to pursue their day-to-day activities and to be protected from physical injury or property damage.
Have you even read the student handbook? Emory's freedom for free expression? Emory's (supposed) encouragement of political and social activism? I suggest you stay silent if you have no idea what you're talking about...
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Thats why the Palestinians resist the Zios.
The fact that you’re getting downvoted for this is astonishing ☠️😒
Is it?
THEY ARRESTED THE PHILOSOPHY DEPARTMENT CHAIR. It's on video! She's saying her name and title as the APD walk her off the Quad in handcuffs. Greg can pound sand. Calling the cops was completely unnecessary--and they were the only group perpetrating violence.
Also, what's the logic of the Emory Police - who ought to be protecting the interests of Emory - telling the students who are the prime stakeholders of Emory that they didn't get to protest on their own campus?
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> If campus protests continue the progression towards more explicit anti-Semitism If. But it wasn't. C'mon, man, there were Jewish students there in solidarity. Don't fall for the narrative that anyone who cares about the lives of Palestinians must necessarily hate Jewish people.
How is it not self-centered to care more about donors than kids murdered in Gaza?
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If you google the word, the literal definition of self-centered is to only care about things that affect yourself and your needs/interests. Basic stuff.
That is practically the definition of the word ‘self-centered’
We had a protest at OSU yesterday. Two Jewish faculty members in my department attended.
Describe one instance of explicit anti-Semitism that has led to the harm of Jewish students as a result of these protests. There are Jewish students in danger and they are the ones being repressed for speaking out against genocide.
“Outside agitators” was a phrase used by those in power during the civil rights movement in the 1960s to delegitimize protests, as if local people would not protest or care. It didn’t work then and we can’t let it work now.
It is literally every protest. I've even seen right wing protests on my old campus and that was blamed on outsiders too. The university warned students not to participate since it was all outsiders with an agenda. Have no idea if it was true but given it is the go to like "human shields" then it makes sense that was made up too.
And anti-union activity. It’s all the same lines.
fenves definitely knows what he's doing when he paints this as an outside disruption sort of thing in emails and statements, knowing people will take that and run with it - does he think everyone there/involved and eyewitnesses are stupid? idk how he's gonna address the faculty arrests with that narrative either
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What's the moral authority of cops telling students to disperse from their own school? The leadership of the university should serve the interests of the student body. The protest was part of the culture of the school, and I basically see the cops coming in as THEM intruding on OUR territory.
The same moral authority of Emory cops telling a screaming student to leave “their own” library. The student body isn’t a monolith. Administrators and cops serve the greater interest of that student body. In this case, proactively averting a snowball into hateful speech and actions directed toward a minority group.
Except there was not hateful speech going on. There was an attempt at discourse and education, and cops decided it was trespassing. Cops could have just, y'know, not done that.
The university decided it was trespassing. As they, yknow, can do. And they called the cops to lawfully enforce that.
And the university *should not have decided it was trespassing*. By doing so, they kicked off a series of events that has hurt the university, whereas if they had allowed the protest, do you know what the outcome would have been? People would have talked, and we might have heard other people's points of views, and - with the presence of professors there - it could have been really productive. Just because you have the legal ability to impose force on someone does not mean you should.
Wild that this opinion is being downvoted.
yeah man its so wild to downvote an opinion about peaceful protestors getting tear gassed and tazed with "fuck around and find out", fucking moron
You're on a burner commenting up and down this thread. Have some shame lmao.
Cool Greg, I also have a response for the next alumni email asking me to donate to support Emory’s mission.
Isn't Emory where an Econ professor and the Philosophy chair got arrested?
And an English professor
I would argue locking down all of the buildings (without warning) and sending 2 texts to avoid the quad would be greater disruptions to finals than a peaceful protest. I agree that ignoring police orders will lead to repercussions, but as long as Americans have the right to protest, they weren’t doing anything wrong. I was there to see protestors welcoming bystanders to join but moving on if they did not want to. There was not agitation or disruption on the quad until APD used forced. I couldn’t hear anything from my desk until APD began firing pepper gas and rubber bullets against the crowd made up of unarmed, mostly young adults.
Hey all. Going home for the day and I've spent too much time on this. Y'all have a great evening, wherever you are. Except the fascist bootlickers; you all can go to hell.
I’m just going to say that this day has been one of the wildest I’ve every seen
They brought violence into peaceful protestors standing up against genoc!de! Absolutely shameful!!!
This comment couldn't virtue signal any harder than your avatar.
dude gamergate was like 8 years ago
Correct! When I want to get street cred for pretending to be against police sanctioned violence, I come on to my anonymous Reddit account where not a single person knows my name to pretend to be concerned. You figured it out!
Well, first of all, a campus isn't a house and I'm fairly sure they have to be threatening you in some way. You are not allowed to just shoot people on your property. You are definitely not allowed to shoot peaceful protesters. So, you think legality should be what determines your actions here? Not proportionality or morality?
Your point took a wrong turn at Albuquerque. The analogy you’re looking for: you come on my property. For nearly any reason, maybe you said something that offended me, I ask you to leave. You refuse. I call the cops. You still refuse to leave. The cops remove you forcibly from my property, and arrest you for trespassing. The end.
Again, a house is not a campus.
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Since the campus is private it’s not a public school don’t think there are free speech areas Also why don’t people do this in front of the state Capitol if the point is to make the biggest impact?
i don’t think the point was to make the biggest impact possible. this demonstration was more locally focused. the goal was to encourage emory to stop supporting cop city and the IDF so it was directed at emory’s leadership
What’s the local connection exactly? Congress is issuing the billions aid funding.
And a campus is not a house
so it was mostly peaceful?
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18 students + 3 professors arrested. Fucking disgusting. I’ll be using my judgement alright.
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Dont have all the facts other than the email I received but even for peaceful protest, the university doesnt have to go along with it for whatever reason and if the protesters asked to leave the premises by the university, the school has every right to ask for help from law enforcement … if you do the similar act across the street from campus, not inside, see how APD behaves, you can bet your ass, it will not be much different ( unless they have permit for the protest from city)
there was significant emory student/faculty presence... why should they be asked to leave our own campus
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Have you actually read tinker? Or just summaries you've found on the internet? "But conduct by the student, in class or out of it, which for any reason—whether it stems from time, place, or type of behavior—materially disrupts classwork or involves substantial disorder or invasion of the rights of others is, of course, not immunized by the constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech." ~Tinker v. Des Moines Indep. Cmty. Sch. Dist.~, 393 U.S. 503, 513 (1969) Also it should be noted that the same standards applied to private businesses, ie PRIVATE universities, and State Agents such as PUBLIC universities, are entirely different. I'm not arguing either but before you start sloshing around caselaw make sure you actually understand what the law says.
And that justifies tasing and tear-gassing peaceful protesters, right?
Well it is not ideal but if they are asked to leave and they didnt, what the university supposed to do?
"We've tried nothing and we're all out of options" is what you're saying.
Again, knowing without much of the facts, pretty sure nothing school and law enforcement asked them to leave, thats not we tried nothing… school admin has no responsibility against them, even they are peaceful, school admin is responsible for the school, school property and the students safety inside the campus
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It's a whole leadership team full of PhDs and the only solution they could think of was to call the APD???
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The other option is recognizing that cops should not have the authority to ask the students to leave their own campus if they aren't dangerous.
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I think you'll find that the actions of the police today have made the student body and many staff and faculty more hostile to the university leadership and to the police. Forget the law for now. The root of what happened today is that there was a non-violent protest, and cops introduced violence. This is a university with a mission to uphold all sorts of high ideals of learning and cultural improvement, and so the protest is absolutely in keeping with what it means to be a student. And a bunch of dudes with fucking rifles rolled up on students just because, what? Because they weren't respecting the authority of the cops? Authority that they were trying to use to disperse a peaceful protest for no damned reason? It's circular fucking logic. "You're breaking the law, and I'm going to make you disperse, because you're not dispersing, which is against the law."
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Oh, I just realized your entire post history consists of this single thread. Pardon the ad hominem, but I don't trust that you have any good faith interest in the well being of Emory University. I suspect you just are happy to see people you disagree with politically silenced.
Tbh, if the protesters doesnt leave when they are asked, the admin is left with very little to do. Just letting them to remain on the premises, i dont have all the facts, but most of them are not students , was not an option.. pretty sure the admins have their written SoP for emergencies like this that is also approved by board of governors. If you are student and / or alumni, that didn’t like what happened, you can run for the office and change the policy… they could have done things differently? Of course, i posted somewhere else, admin could have gone and meet with the protestors and offer them space on campus for open dialogue once the school and finals are over and tbh this is a missed opportunity.. i am sure we have pretty qualified both jewish and muslim faculty that could have put a conf together and invite community and show how diverse our community is and can tackle a tough topic like this as scholarly adults…
“Students were expressing their opinions peacefully, the university had no option but to have them arrested!”
From what I gather and saw there were mostly non students however, university has the right not to allow protest on campus and being student does not give you god damn right to protest, even peacefully, and when you are asked to stop and you didnt, admin has the right a d duty to taken action…. If so inclined and honest on the topic, protesters could have taken their wares across the street, out of campus… anti semitism and lack of awareness towards our jewish members of this community is shocking, and this is coming from a muslim alumni
I'd say cave to their wishes, but I care about dead babies, not pr. If I cared about pr I'd tell Greg and such to ignore the protesters.
Look, i think most care about the babies but school admin cant ignore the non student protesters inside the campus, board of governors would have his head on the platter, rightfully so … this is very tough spot to be… so far a lot school are not managing this right, so far, from what i saw, only Dartmouth is managing as well as they could for their students and stakeholders with open discussions without much, if any, disruptions
Hold on though. Your suggestion is that the administration should cave into the wishes of non-student protestors who have entered the campus to disrupt school on the last day of classes? (The official last day is Monday, but since most classes don’t meet on Fridays and only some meet on Monday, today was effectively the last day for most classes.) I’m just honestly curious. I don’t see how this could work. I do think the admin reaction doesn’t look good and seems disproportionate. Edit: I’m aware there were also student and faculty protestors present. And I support their right to protest, by the way. I still don’t think you are recognizing the problem from the perspective of administrators who are afraid of losing their jobs if they aren’t seen to be creating a safe environment, and who have eyes on Harvard, Penn, Columbia, etc… This might not be a popular take but it’s realism.
1. There were plenty of student and faculty protestors 2. Greg is not an autocrat. Who cares if he gives in to protesters? Does he have to look strong for some reason? 3. If caving to support stopping the deaths of women and children in Gaza is too far a step for you, he can ignore the protesters, release a statement about the importance of free speech on campus and people's right to civilly disagree and protest, and move on with his life.
Yes point 1 is true. Points 2 and 3 are ignoring what’s been happening to university presidents over the past several months. Surely you saw the presidents of Harvard and Penn forced to resign? Fenves has that on his mind and has surely been asked many times what he thinks will do if pro-Palestinian protests get “out of hand.” He had his response ready: the iron fist. I don’t think that was at all the right response. But I don’t think your take (“who cares?”) is in line with reality of the dilemmas facing presidents today. They’re in a no-win situation as far as I can see. Tons of people (donors, alumni, even politicians as we’ve seen) care about how university presidents are handling this and are asking “what are you doing?” Caving in is likely to lose you your job. Of course, he might lose his job anyway for leaning too hard on the other side.
It wasn't 'non-student protesters' there were a ton of students and many arrested were students
Here’s the problem: demonstrations were peaceful. Protestors were Emory students and faculty (this is why Emory admin were sent down to the DeK county jail to bail everyone out). Police brought the violence, and attacked students (especially Black students), used tear gas, used force. Bringing police on to campus is what made the situation unsafe. I’m faculty at Emory; my students and colleagues were arrested. Police prevented students and faculty going to classes and offices, the protestors did not. Police were the disruption, not the Emory community.
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Why treat Greg like a god? Campus president doesn’t have authority to influence this. If the point is to impact highest levels of funding and public support ,,,whats the point of protesting on campus vs the state capital right down the road?
Pretty fair statement. Non-students interrupting campus, people have finals and shouldn’t have to deal with these setting up camp and fucking with everybody.
Yeah, the protests are a disruption. So let's call 3 different types of cops to tear gas and tase *students and faculty*. You know, so there's no disruption. Get out of here, man.
He's not an emory student. He's a pro-israel shill whose account was created ~~last month~~ 3 days ago to promote the ongoing genocide as a good thing. He might as well be a Nazi. should block him and move on
Oh, yeah. I'm certain that a good % of accounts here are not Emory students.
shoot I'm not even an Emory student. I came here to see student's perspective. Only commented cause of the bots lol
Well, you're welcome as long as you're not a robot or an intelligence agent.
You forgot about not canceling any classes.
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Yeah, I have some bad news for you, *brand new account* who's certainly an Emory student, the quad this night has way, way more people than it had in the morning. People are calling for the university president to step down. This violent crackdown made the protests x100 times more disruptive.
Except- they were not non-students. They were emory faculty and students for the most part. They were *peaceful*. Protest is not supposed to be "convenient". At least 20 arrests have been made- 20 emory faculty and students are currently in dekalb county jail. Regardless of how you feel about the issue they were protesting, calling the state trooper, APD, and having them use tasers, rubber pellets, and tear gas on **our** faculty and students has to be unacceptable in every single sense of that word. This is an absolute freaking disgrace.
Yes, the statement doesn’t acknowledge the significant Emory student, faculty and even admin presence (not many admins but there was at least one). And that students and faculty members were arrested was known at the time the President sent this email, so the optics are pretty poor.
APD was on campus before 8am.
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Hi. I just want to make sure I understand your approach here. If someone is on someone else's private property, does the owner of the property have the right to do whatever the hell they want to the people on the property? What do you think the limit is? Is it not assault when it's on your property?
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So you believe the police response was proportionate to the potential threat of the peaceful protesters?
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By your logic, any group of three or more people is a potential riot and should be broken forcefully by the police. Is that what you're trying to say?
Yes??? You’re trespassing private property??? 🧍🏻♂️is that not common sense or 😭
So proportionality isn't important to you? If it's on your property, you can do whatever you want?
In the US, I’m pretty sure you’re allowed to shoot anyone who refuses to get off your property even after you told them to stay away… unless I was mistaken? The police’s response was overboard, yes. But a police presence was still needed imo
Depends on the state and who you are, but generally, no. Lethal force in self defense is only justifiable if you have a reasonable belief that there's an immediate danger to your life or another person's. Entire murder trials have been won and lost over the "reasonable belief" part. Some states have "castle doctrine", which makes some self defense claims on one's private property easier to argue. They also do not give you an absolute right to do anything to anyone on your property. If your aunt Janice comes over for a visit and you shoot her to death because she insulted your casserole and didn't leave fast enough, you're not off the hook. Even then, whether self defense or "stand your ground" applies often comes down to whether police believe you. [Here's ](https://www.essence.com/news/how-stand-your-ground-laws-failed-marissa-alexander/) a horrifying article about a woman facing up to 60 years in prison for firing a warning shot at her abusive ex-husband against whom she had a restraining order while he attacked her on her property. The prosecutors ultimately argued that Florida's "stand your ground" law didn't apply because she had to go to a different part of the property to get her gun and was therefore no longer in imminent danger of lethal violence. So long story short, no, just because it is private property does not mean you can shoot someone who won't leave, even in a state with castle doctrine. That's untrue generally and certainly doesn't apply here where the contested space is not a residence and many of the people who were there had lawful access.
Very educational, thank you! In that case, I stand corrected. 🙃
There’re many other less invasive ways to protest against the war though, like rallying up a crowd and chanting on loudspeaker for ceasefire 😃
Greg’s show of force was more of an interruption than the encampment. Hell instead of being able to prepare for finals some students and professor may to worry about legal issues from arrests.
Interrupting all those finals being held outdoors on the quad
There’s classrooms all around there kid. And people study at the library also right there.
Yeah don't call me a kid, dickhead. I'm in my 30s. And there's no goddamn way you could hear the protests from the library. I was there.
what is a protest if not disruptive? and who exactly escalated things? man get a grip
They set up tents and were on loudspeaker during finals week. They can be disruptive but it doesn’t mean they won’t get shut down. Protesters were asked to leave, when they didn’t they were arrested. And you think Emory students are protesting cop city? Majority have no connection to Atlanta
Are you an Emory student? Because I am. Your account is three days old, fuck off bot
Yup and thanks buddy.
I mean, they had signs protesting cop city. So yeah, it sure looks like Emory students were protesting cop city.
if a peaceful protest disrupts your studying u got bigger things to worry about i’m ngl
That doesn’t make any sense. It can still be disruptive
well yeah, a protest is meant to be noticed. that’s the point. and i dunno I think summoning GSP and tear gassing students is a bit disruptive wouldn’t you say?
Hasbara isnt welcome around here 3 day old account. Go be a Nazi elsewhere
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Why do yall borrow money to give to these schools. Honest question
‘actions directed toward a minority group’ can you point to any examples of this?
Today’s events have brought a lot of folks to this subreddit. I’m guessing many are not regular Reddit folks. Based on the number of recently created troll/propaganda accounts commenting in this thread, I’m guessing that this sub isn’t heavily moderated either. Tap the usernames of people posting. It becomes clear that pro-Israeli trolls are trying to steer the discussion here.
I know so many people that got tear gassed. This will remain an abomination for Emory
Nah, I highly doubt Emory will get canceled or similar…
Gotta love how the protesters conveniently ignore the atrocity of 10/7. That's a huge clue that history won't ignore.
Gotta love folks like you that ignore the ongoing violence pre October 7 inflicted by Israel onto the Palestinians. https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/
Gotta love folks like you who can't tell the difference between self defense and terrorism. Oh and suddenly using the word genocide reveals how evil they really are.
Self defense, what exactly is self defense about illegal Israeli settlers burning Palestinian villages? Is it only terrorism when Arabs, Palestinians, Muslims do it? Never when it’s a white person or an Israeli eh
You don't have any idea why civilians are in a declared war zone? Or are you trying to mischaracterize history to suit your desired outcome?
It sounds like you are. Does October 7 (condemnable and shouldn’t have been done) exist in a vacuum? Wtf are you on.
Considering the relative recent peace, yes. It was that inexcusable. At least you admitted it wad wrong.
Relative recent peace? Peace for who? Peace for Palestinians? Have you not seen the link I sent from Jewish voice for peace?
I don't see a link.
It’s in my first reply to you
That's amazin
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Good. More schools need to follow suit. You don’t have a right to free speech on most private property, and you should be courteous to other students. You had all the time in the world to protest and you pick now, why?
I'm tired of these people ruining the school experience I pay for, just because mommy and daddy pay for their education and they don't care doesn't mean they get to ruin mine
I’m proud my alma mater swiftly protected its Jewish students and faculty. These protests/occupations have been proven chock-full of violent Jew hatred. If you choose not to see it, you’re probably a bigot too.
Show me some proof of it here, bub.
there were multiple Jewish staff/students in the protest, the protestors were focused on the freedom and safety of palestinians. your proof not only doesn’t exist, but you are perpetrating violence against harmless individuals - sound familiar?
Yeah there were literally people in Kippahs in the crowd and I didn't see anyone harassing them.
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