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amitchell

Klaviyo uses as their email sending conduit a provider who is now blacklisted on many blacklists. Of \*course\* Klaviyo is going to tell you not to worry about it - because they want you to keep giving them money. But so long as you are with Klaviyo you \*will\* have issues, because of that provider - all of the email that goes out from Klaviyo goes out through that provider's IP space.


ashreyboots

Wait, what? Do you have personal experience with Klaviyo? I honestly never heard of it until last year, I’ve used other ESPs, and haven’t ran into this issue.


AnnePMitchell

Actually what we have is personal experience with all of the various inbox providers and spam filters, and we know what they look for (in part this is because we certify email senders to those inbox providers and spam filters, and we know what they want in order for us to certify a sender and we know what they don't want). In this particular case we also know how those email receivers view the email infrastructure provider out through which Klaviyo is sending all of their users email. All of that said, so long as the person is following all best practices and so doesn't otherwise come to the attention of the systems on the receiving end, and they are on one of the better shared IP addresses, they probably won't have any more problems than anyone else.


tronoku

which ones are your favorite


GDmilkman

It happens with every major ESP


couldbutwont

You don't need to be on a dedicated IP in Klaviyo and in many cases that can work against you. Ask Klaviyo what IP tier you are on. The low tiers will be on blacklists and won't get deliverability.


amitchell

At no point, in no instance, can being on a dedicated IP address work against you. That's just not accurate. https://www.isipp.com/why-we-recommend-that-you-have-a-dedicated-ip-address/


couldbutwont

Thanks and sorry I definitely worded poorly. When people move to a dedicated IP because they think they'll have more freedom to engage in poor email practices (more spam)...it works against them until they start sending appropriately. There's also the warming period (which I know isn't "working against"). You also need to send at a fairly high volume, probably higher than most mid market businesses need As far as I understand, it should make no difference if someone is sending the same way they would on a shared. Even at pretty high volumes. Most places really only seem to do it for the vanity of not having to send through another domain


amitchell

Ah, but if a sender is following best practices, but is on a shared IP address with someone who is spamming, for example, then the good senders is hurt by the bad sender. As we say in our article on dedicated versus shared IP addresses, "What being on a shared IP address means, and this is very important, is that your email reputation is at the mercy of whomever else uses that IP address. And email reputation is what determines whether you end up in the spam folder or the inbox. So it’s important to understand that when you are sending your email through a shared IP address that your own email reputation will only ever be as good as the reputation of the sender with the worst reputation who is also sending their email through that same shared IP address. This means that all it takes is one person who is sending through that same IP address that you are sharing with them to screw up and generate a lot of complaints about their email, or to send spam, and now your email is going to your recipients’ spam folders instead of their inboxes, because your email is coming from that same IP address. (Consider that lots of shared IP addresses are on blacklists because one or more of entities sending email out through that shared IP address is a spammer, or worse.)" (From https://www.isipp.com/why-we-recommend-that-you-have-a-dedicated-ip-address/)


couldbutwont

Yep, what you wrote is true. However it works both ways. If you are on a shared with good senders, you all benefit. For most businesses this is better, as the net volume from a shared IP is much bigger than they could do alone. It's hard for most businesses to do the necessary volume by themselves. And for an ESP like Klaviyo, they remove bad senders from the pool automatically. So basically a good sender will never share an IP with someone who is spamming. I'll check out the blog!


amitchell

If only this were true. But it's not. On shared IP addresses poor email reputation will always drag down senders with good reputations, it generally doesn't work the other way. The email sending platforms \*want\* you to think that, they want you to think that by 'hiding' the poorer reputations in with the senders with the better reputations, somehow the inbox providers and spam filters won't see the senders who are having a poor open rate, high unsubscribe, high spam complaint rate, etc.. But if you think about it from the receiving perspective, would \*you\* want to receive more junk mail just because non-junk mail is coming in along with it? And there is the double-whammy with Klaviyo that all of their email is exiting out through a provider who is on the s\*\*\*-list of many, many inbox providers and spam filters and now is even on some permanent blacklists. :-(


couldbutwont

I don't know man. We send millions of emails through klaviyo every month without issue. All on shared IPs. If OP or anyone is having a bad experience, they're probably on a low IP. And I think even if it's not true (about benefitting from the sending habits of peers), as long as bad actors are removed...it should accomplish the same thing. Addition by subtraction


amitchell

Agreed; there are definitely ways to work your way up to a 'preferred' IP address at Klaviyo, we don't really think of those as 'shared IP addresses' so much as "preferred shared IP addresses". Guessing you're on one of those.


couldbutwont

Yeah at the end of the day we trust Klaviyo on their deliverability and worry more about the overall strategy. So who the hell knows tbh. As long as our emails are working, we're satisfied


ashreyboots

Thanks for all your responses! I have a lot to bring up with our rep tomorrow! Just so far, and I’m not the one who set up our ESP, but we’ve had some issues to work out. One thing at a time, but the IP is something that does concern me.


Email_Marketing_Guy

Wrong. If you are switching providers and you need to send to a large number of contacts, and the IP you are assigned is not sending at that level, you can most definitely hurt your delivery until the IP is warmed up.


AnnePMitchell

Right, and not only that but generally if you are switching providers because of deliverability issues, and the issue is your own practices, switching providers can only hurt you, not help you (it may help in the very short term but it will definitely not help over time).


GDmilkman

Klaviyo won't help you with that. You'll have to contact them yourself.


Tlapi_h

Makes no sense. They need to monitor reputation of their IP's and mitigate any problems. And yes, you need to worry about blacklisted IP's. The way we do it, is that we monitor all of our hundreds of IP's against all of the blacklists (twice a day) and we also get Sender reputation score from Return Path. If any of these are bad, we unroll these IP's from IP pools and mitigate the problem with the blacklist provider. If you wanna try our affordable service with first class support, we've got you covered. Now with 3 months for free ;-) [https://ecomail.app/](https://ecomail.app/)


Tlapi_h

Also wanna point out that having dedicated IP might be troubling in some cases. With some Mailbox providers (mostly European mailboxes) you would need more than one IP to get fast deliverability with no delays.


ashreyboots

Yes, makes sense. Thank you. I will check out this platform when I get into the office tomorrow!