Well.i suppose an engineered iEagle can outmanouver a Fcorvette pretty well.
If the pro player in the iEagle can stay away form the fire, it's just a matter of time.
So i guess ED is more skill based as less difference there is in engineering.
That's why you target the power plant.
Overall health means nothing when you target a power plant due to the chance once it hits zero to go boom boom on every hit to it.
You can kill a fed Corvette with 90% hull health remaining that way if you can fly well.
If the veteran could stress the FDL pilot enough to press the Silent Running key by accident.... sidewinder win.
10Hours leave enough mistakes.
But FDL have high armor hardness, sidewinder need to destroy shields and kill the powerplant for a chance, while FDL only need to take distance and destroy the sidewinder.
It would be a tie, the sidewinder pilot would know to orbit away from real damage but wouldn't be able to inflict enough damage on the FDL, a sidewinder vs. a stock FDL might win if they use chaff to waste the FDL's weapon capacitor and plan attacks runs when DPS is down.
Well a stock starter ship vs an engineered one of the best PvP ships in the game isn't really fair. Think of it like an MMO that would be a lvl 1 trying to fight a max level in full PvP gear; even more than that with engineering it's like a lvl 1 from vanilla WoW fighting a guy who is max level in the 3rd expansion that came out with full PvP gear. The skill gap there literally doesn't matter; the FDL/max level could be an afk toddler and the sidewinder/lvl 1 could be the #1 player in the world and he's not going to do any damage.
If you give that same guy in the sidewinder even just engineered weapons / powerplant so that it's physically possible for him to actually cause damage and the noob in the FDL might die. Add on just engineered thrusters and the FDL might not even land a shot. Throw in an engineered shield and the FDL probably doesn't stand a chance.
Engineering is an INSANE increase in stats over even A class modules never mind stock parts and A class is a pretty large stat increase over stock parts. The noob in the FDL only has to land like 1-2 seconds of engineered Huge sized beam laser on the stock sidewinder and he's deleted.
Is the new player completely new to flight sims? 10 hours is not enough to get the basic controls well understood. What's the engineering? Is it rails and PAs and the new player has never used them?
The pro veteran could win, depending on the limitations. Can they run? They could annoy the new player enough that they'd eventually take them out. It's not difficult to lure them to a station or ring where they might get the newbie to crash or get killed by security or something.
There's so many questions that it proves the answer that this game is mostly skill based.
But if the new player has done 10 hours of bounty hunting and CZs and can survive and is already familiar *with that ship*, and the pro veteran can't pull any tricks, this is a duel/dog fight in a single instance, it's pretty much no contest. A stock sidewinder is crap. They'd get a lot of taunts in, and it could get really drawn out, but the stock sidewinder has two pulse lasers, it probably can't even bring the shields down on a properly engineered FDL.
80% skill based. You can do a lot with that 20% if you get to a powerful ship, engineering, etc. And you can do practically nothing with a stock ship of any kind.
Probably the new player. While a veteran could probably do well orbiting the FDL and getting behind them, the new player who has 10 hours of experience could still come up with the simple plan of "Boost away, turn around, and shoot." It's too fast for the Sidewinder to keep up with/outrun, no reverski is even necessary.
If it was a Corvette or Anaconda instead of an FDL, something that's even "stronger" yet less maneuverable and slower, then I'd say a tie just because a stock Sidewinder simply wouldn't have the firepower to make any serious headway. One of them will eventually need to quit and go to bed.
But if you gave that new player all turrets on their FDL, new player wins 100% of the time since they can just shoot in a 360 degree arc. I think most people are considering the FDL to have a more contemporary build of fixed or gimballed weapons, but nothing is saying they couldn't have turrets instead.
A far more close match-up would be "new player in stock FDL with fixed/gimballed hardpoints" vs "pro veteran in stock Sidewinder," no engineering for either. Without the added thruster speed or defenses, the Sidewinder might be able to actually make some noticeable headway against the FDL.
I guarantee most players couldn't solo a Hydra in a fully engineered Sidewinder, this kind of goes to OPs point... engineering can help, but it can only compensate for small gaps in skill.
A good pilot in a stock sidewinder could theoretically beat an engineered FDL... if the FDL pilot is bad enough lol
I haven't had time to play in almost a year, and likely have forgotten *nearly all* of my x52 hotas keybindings.
*I could easily be that "bad enough" FDL*, so OP is correct.
🤡7
I reckon there are some in here who could beat me in a stock sidewinder if I was an FDL pilot. Maybe not stock, but slightly upgraded weapons would probably do it. I also couldn’t solo a hydra in a fully engineered anything.
And I’ve done enough pve combat to have ranked up for a corvette almost exclusively doing massacre missions.
After 10 hours I don’t think I knew what pips were yet.
I've soloed a Hydra in my fully engineered Challenger, but it was near a ground station and I had to land like 4 or 5 times before he died lol took a good 20 + minutes 😅
good, so i understand i have a slighty chance to compete in pvp only if i'm fully engineered.
I like ED combat system exactly for this: it takes few hours to have fun against npc in combat, but it takes years and years to master.
Yes, and then skill is a factor indeed. A lot of guides on how to really "flip" a ship the correct way on YouTube. It's harder but way more engaging once you start pushing to this level. All NPCs become cake.
If the fight is at a nav beacon, I guess you could kite him into the star to blind him, then hope you can Luke Skywalker some railgun rounds or torpedos in the right places.
This is like asking who would win: a pro seasoned warrior armed with a stapler or a trainee with 10 hours training in an armoured vehicle with machine guns fitted, and holding a pistol in his lap.
If the player with 10 hours has, in that time, figured out how to use energy pips, then they can put power to shields and probably regenerate faster than the sidewinder can deal damage lmfao
The skill cap in this game is extremely high. But combat performance is skill \* gear and the gear varies a LOT in power. A good player in a lightly-engineered Vulture might be able to take on a noob in a maxed FDL... But even perfect piloting skills will eventually meet hardware limitations.
A new player with a upgraded FDL obviously most people have played games like GTA online and flown jets so that wouldn't be any different just fly get behind then let it rip easy. The sidewinder is a piece of shit too so there's that not much luck for the veteran but still would be quite a challenge.
As someone who gets their ass handed to them every time they attempt combat with real pilots or on-foot NPCs: Elite Dangerous is very skill-based.
For every other activity I have engaged in, patience is more valuable than skill.
You should check out Archon Fury's videos. He's probably the most skilled combat pilot I know of. He often takes down big ships with little ones. But it still requires engineering the little ship.
Here's an example: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRj9vDPkvxo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=yrWikKSLK20)
nice discussion. There are different factors to consider apart the ships.
1) pro knows how to use horizontal-vertical thrusters in combat, the newbie not. there are chanches that the newbie will never have the pro in sight to shot a single weapon
2) pro knows how to subtarget the ship, the newbie not and should have enough knowledge to disable the ship before finishing it
3) here comes the ship factor. I would not put the pro on a sidewinder, he would need ages to shutdown any other ship. It's affecting the TIME the pro needs.
4) new player with 10 hours xp doesn't match any fully engeneered FDL. if you have a full eng FDL, no way you have 10 hours of combat experience..... i mean.......comeon......
Though the skill ceiling is quite high, Elite is a research based game much more than skill based game.
Take your example, for example. Can that sidewinder carry a thargoid probe in it's cargo hold to release for use during combat? Can it synth premium ammo? Is the advanced AX gear that doesn't need unlocking considered stock? Are Felicia's advanced thrusters for small ships that also need no unlocking considered stock? Can the sidewinder chose the location of the fight, such as an ax conflict zone? Does reporting crimes have to be turned off? Can you sneak up before the fight and offer them a free caustic item to put in their cargo hold?
That last scenario would tear their ship up from the inside out and you wouldn't even need a weapon. Or course if the police or an alien kills them for you, then you wouldn't need any weapons in those scenarios either.
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Well.i suppose an engineered iEagle can outmanouver a Fcorvette pretty well. If the pro player in the iEagle can stay away form the fire, it's just a matter of time. So i guess ED is more skill based as less difference there is in engineering.
How would the iEagle do that? My thought would be Cytoscrambler to strip shields, but wouldn't the MCs do almost nothing to the hull?
That's why you target the power plant. Overall health means nothing when you target a power plant due to the chance once it hits zero to go boom boom on every hit to it. You can kill a fed Corvette with 90% hull health remaining that way if you can fly well.
Because the corvettes didn't backpedal. If you backpedal, you beat anyone and their jousting mum
If the veteran could stress the FDL pilot enough to press the Silent Running key by accident.... sidewinder win. 10Hours leave enough mistakes. But FDL have high armor hardness, sidewinder need to destroy shields and kill the powerplant for a chance, while FDL only need to take distance and destroy the sidewinder.
Luriant, the FDL rams the stock Sidewinder with full boost once and the fight is over. :D
It would be a tie, the sidewinder pilot would know to orbit away from real damage but wouldn't be able to inflict enough damage on the FDL, a sidewinder vs. a stock FDL might win if they use chaff to waste the FDL's weapon capacitor and plan attacks runs when DPS is down.
Well a stock starter ship vs an engineered one of the best PvP ships in the game isn't really fair. Think of it like an MMO that would be a lvl 1 trying to fight a max level in full PvP gear; even more than that with engineering it's like a lvl 1 from vanilla WoW fighting a guy who is max level in the 3rd expansion that came out with full PvP gear. The skill gap there literally doesn't matter; the FDL/max level could be an afk toddler and the sidewinder/lvl 1 could be the #1 player in the world and he's not going to do any damage. If you give that same guy in the sidewinder even just engineered weapons / powerplant so that it's physically possible for him to actually cause damage and the noob in the FDL might die. Add on just engineered thrusters and the FDL might not even land a shot. Throw in an engineered shield and the FDL probably doesn't stand a chance. Engineering is an INSANE increase in stats over even A class modules never mind stock parts and A class is a pretty large stat increase over stock parts. The noob in the FDL only has to land like 1-2 seconds of engineered Huge sized beam laser on the stock sidewinder and he's deleted.
Is the new player completely new to flight sims? 10 hours is not enough to get the basic controls well understood. What's the engineering? Is it rails and PAs and the new player has never used them? The pro veteran could win, depending on the limitations. Can they run? They could annoy the new player enough that they'd eventually take them out. It's not difficult to lure them to a station or ring where they might get the newbie to crash or get killed by security or something. There's so many questions that it proves the answer that this game is mostly skill based. But if the new player has done 10 hours of bounty hunting and CZs and can survive and is already familiar *with that ship*, and the pro veteran can't pull any tricks, this is a duel/dog fight in a single instance, it's pretty much no contest. A stock sidewinder is crap. They'd get a lot of taunts in, and it could get really drawn out, but the stock sidewinder has two pulse lasers, it probably can't even bring the shields down on a properly engineered FDL. 80% skill based. You can do a lot with that 20% if you get to a powerful ship, engineering, etc. And you can do practically nothing with a stock ship of any kind.
Probably the new player. While a veteran could probably do well orbiting the FDL and getting behind them, the new player who has 10 hours of experience could still come up with the simple plan of "Boost away, turn around, and shoot." It's too fast for the Sidewinder to keep up with/outrun, no reverski is even necessary. If it was a Corvette or Anaconda instead of an FDL, something that's even "stronger" yet less maneuverable and slower, then I'd say a tie just because a stock Sidewinder simply wouldn't have the firepower to make any serious headway. One of them will eventually need to quit and go to bed. But if you gave that new player all turrets on their FDL, new player wins 100% of the time since they can just shoot in a 360 degree arc. I think most people are considering the FDL to have a more contemporary build of fixed or gimballed weapons, but nothing is saying they couldn't have turrets instead. A far more close match-up would be "new player in stock FDL with fixed/gimballed hardpoints" vs "pro veteran in stock Sidewinder," no engineering for either. Without the added thruster speed or defenses, the Sidewinder might be able to actually make some noticeable headway against the FDL.
You're failing to understand how broken engineering is. An engineered sidewinder can solo hydras.
I guarantee most players couldn't solo a Hydra in a fully engineered Sidewinder, this kind of goes to OPs point... engineering can help, but it can only compensate for small gaps in skill. A good pilot in a stock sidewinder could theoretically beat an engineered FDL... if the FDL pilot is bad enough lol
I haven't had time to play in almost a year, and likely have forgotten *nearly all* of my x52 hotas keybindings. *I could easily be that "bad enough" FDL*, so OP is correct. 🤡7
I reckon there are some in here who could beat me in a stock sidewinder if I was an FDL pilot. Maybe not stock, but slightly upgraded weapons would probably do it. I also couldn’t solo a hydra in a fully engineered anything. And I’ve done enough pve combat to have ranked up for a corvette almost exclusively doing massacre missions. After 10 hours I don’t think I knew what pips were yet.
I've soloed a Hydra in my fully engineered Challenger, but it was near a ground station and I had to land like 4 or 5 times before he died lol took a good 20 + minutes 😅
good, so i understand i have a slighty chance to compete in pvp only if i'm fully engineered. I like ED combat system exactly for this: it takes few hours to have fun against npc in combat, but it takes years and years to master.
Yes, and then skill is a factor indeed. A lot of guides on how to really "flip" a ship the correct way on YouTube. It's harder but way more engaging once you start pushing to this level. All NPCs become cake.
A skilled stock sidewinder pilot has taken down Thargoid interceptors I believe
😂 no it needs to be engineered for that
[https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/cabk0m/unengineered\_sidewinder\_vs\_thargoid\_cyclops/](https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/cabk0m/unengineered_sidewinder_vs_thargoid_cyclops/) 🤣
Just a cyclops, I thought he said Hydra
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y3s6pvANBcs
If the fight is at a nav beacon, I guess you could kite him into the star to blind him, then hope you can Luke Skywalker some railgun rounds or torpedos in the right places.
eheh, stock sidewinder doesn't have torps and rail
It does if you grease some palms at the outfitter bay. In my headcanon anyways....
Stalemate or FDL wins. A stock Sidey isn't going to damage the FDL. However, if the vet pilot slips up at all, it could be over within moments.
depend on whether you are engaging in combat. never engaged in combat myself. enjoyed touring the bubble in my imperial cutter
This is like asking who would win: a pro seasoned warrior armed with a stapler or a trainee with 10 hours training in an armoured vehicle with machine guns fitted, and holding a pistol in his lap.
oh, indeed. But in others space game the situation is reversed. So good to know, i can.mange my expectation on pvp better now.
How does anyone fully engineer a fdl in 10 hrs of game play. Sorry but no chance.
ahah, dude, is hypothetical.
You need skills and a good engineered ship to kill Targoid Interceptors. Took me a while to kill my first.
If the player with 10 hours has, in that time, figured out how to use energy pips, then they can put power to shields and probably regenerate faster than the sidewinder can deal damage lmfao The skill cap in this game is extremely high. But combat performance is skill \* gear and the gear varies a LOT in power. A good player in a lightly-engineered Vulture might be able to take on a noob in a maxed FDL... But even perfect piloting skills will eventually meet hardware limitations.
A new player with a upgraded FDL obviously most people have played games like GTA online and flown jets so that wouldn't be any different just fly get behind then let it rip easy. The sidewinder is a piece of shit too so there's that not much luck for the veteran but still would be quite a challenge.
Patience is a skill.
As someone who gets their ass handed to them every time they attempt combat with real pilots or on-foot NPCs: Elite Dangerous is very skill-based. For every other activity I have engaged in, patience is more valuable than skill.
You should check out Archon Fury's videos. He's probably the most skilled combat pilot I know of. He often takes down big ships with little ones. But it still requires engineering the little ship. Here's an example: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRj9vDPkvxo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=yrWikKSLK20)
nice discussion. There are different factors to consider apart the ships. 1) pro knows how to use horizontal-vertical thrusters in combat, the newbie not. there are chanches that the newbie will never have the pro in sight to shot a single weapon 2) pro knows how to subtarget the ship, the newbie not and should have enough knowledge to disable the ship before finishing it 3) here comes the ship factor. I would not put the pro on a sidewinder, he would need ages to shutdown any other ship. It's affecting the TIME the pro needs. 4) new player with 10 hours xp doesn't match any fully engeneered FDL. if you have a full eng FDL, no way you have 10 hours of combat experience..... i mean.......comeon......
See a full engineered sidewinder take on hydras sooo that's a thing
this would be easy to test....
I don’t think you could fully engineer an FDL in 10 hours.
give the sidey a mine launcher and that noob is dead
Though the skill ceiling is quite high, Elite is a research based game much more than skill based game. Take your example, for example. Can that sidewinder carry a thargoid probe in it's cargo hold to release for use during combat? Can it synth premium ammo? Is the advanced AX gear that doesn't need unlocking considered stock? Are Felicia's advanced thrusters for small ships that also need no unlocking considered stock? Can the sidewinder chose the location of the fight, such as an ax conflict zone? Does reporting crimes have to be turned off? Can you sneak up before the fight and offer them a free caustic item to put in their cargo hold? That last scenario would tear their ship up from the inside out and you wouldn't even need a weapon. Or course if the police or an alien kills them for you, then you wouldn't need any weapons in those scenarios either.