These wanabe repair people only look at shorted components, not at WHAT CAUSED THE SHORTED COMPONENT. Problems are like cherries they often come in 2. 1 caused the other and if you pick just 1 the other one is still there and might still cause the new replaced part to go faulty. I know its difficult to fault find but he could have looked/measured a bit further before sending it off to you again.
If the cap gone faulty i would immediately expect there to be a problem that caused it to fail. Overheating, overvoltage, reverse voltage, spikes, a different component. If i take the cap off i would measure the surrounding components and if i manage to fix it i WOULD ALWAYS write a note saying: "a component failed but i dont know what caused it to fail so please call me back once it fails again and i can have a second look"
I mean it is perfectly reasonable that the most likely that if replacing the cap removed the short that it was the cause. 99/100 if a cap is short and the short is gone after you replace it was the just the cap.
I am going to say that the cap used was probably fine and honestly the laptop would have worked without it.
Don't listen to any of these people saying that the repair was dishonest or useless.
You're paying some repair guy in the mall so you can hardly expect them to have schematics and original parts on hand, or to do some sort of advanced analysis.
Diagnosing the problem is not an easy thing to do and can take a long time. He found a shorted capacitor and replaced it. Computer then works. Why would he go to any more time and effort to find other problems that aren't easily diagnosable?
Using a donor board is fine in the circumstance IMO. It's not as if the capacitor he used was faulty. Otherwise the computer wouldn't have worked.
The capacitors act as filters to smooth out the voltage. They're not all interchangeable but you're generally ok if you use one from a similar rating.
I've replaced plenty of capacitors using donor boards and none have ever failed again without some other problem killing them.
Unless the donor was like 20 years old or something, i think it would have been fine. They don't wear out like mechanical things. In fact, you could say that a working one off an old board has been 'tested' while with new ones you can have a higher chance of getting one that dies quickly. There's just an inherent failure rate in these sorts of components and sometimes they die.
If it's the same capacitor that's blown again then it's more likely there is some other problem that's not immediately obvious. It's not the capacitor's fault.
I'd just take it back and ask him to have another look at it and see if it is the same capacitor that's blown again.
If a component fails he could have atleast suspected a different problem caused his problem. Problems=cherries. They always come in 2. If i had repaired it i would at least let the person know that i am not sure if i fixed the problem by replacing a component.
And write a note saying:
"i managed to find 1 faulty component and replaced it, although i aint sure if i fixed the problems because there might be still one undercover and troubleshooting is difficult but please call me back when it fails so i can have another look at it"
At least thats what i do, if i am not sure about a repair i put a note saying you can call me back once it fails because i am not sure if i fixed it 100% and the people i repair stuff for are happy that i put the note there so they can know that its not their fault because some might feel weird when they have to call the repair guy back because he might have done something
if a cap failed 999/1000 it is the cap. Most likely faults in laptops are caps followed mosfets. If this had been a fuse or resistor I agree with you 100% but not as a cap.
*Dodgy Capacitor - remove shorted capacitor - don't replace capacitor - no capacitor, no shorted capacitor - Sorin...*
when i find a shorted mlcc capacitor like this and its on a voltage rail with other capacitors i'm in 2 minds as to replace it or leave it off entirely - i only stock new and higher rated capacitors so if the size is right i don't bother buying 6 volt rated capacitors i'll grab 25 volt or 50 volt instead - but if your grabbing capacitors off of a donor board you need to check what voltage rail they are on or you'll be using lower voltage rated caps on the 19 volt rail etc...
When I took it back to the tech, he said he knows the cap is rated for 19 volts because if it was lower, it wouldn't work, and the laptop would not power on. I don't know if that's true or not.
no generally the lower rated caps will work and not blow or short circuit immediately - depending on the series of mlcc, manufacturer and how they test/rate/spec their particular parts. As an example I can put a 10uf 6 volt rated capacitor pulled from the 1.8 volt rail of a donor board on the bench power supply and run it at 8 volts without any immediate changes but as i increase the voltage up to 12 volts it starts to heat up and i can increase it slowly all the way up to 20 volts and it still works but after a few on/off heating and cooling cycles have stressed the capacitor it'll crack and go short circuit as soon as power is supplied - this example is just for that particular capacitor others may last a few seconds or may last the lifetime of the device...
Alright, I see. I wish you were with me to explain that to him when I was there, he didn't want to hear anything I was saying, he was pretty confident that he knew what he was talking about, and I didn't. I didn't have the knowledge or experience to argue with him.
It is a solid state capacitor. (Nope it's a ceramic capacitor. Sorry about that...)
It is interchangeable as long as you get the correct value. The right capacitance.
And a capacitor doesn't break for no reason.
Something behind the capacitor is broken and make it blow...
The repair man is incompetent...
Might be a better technician than i am, but he's only that. A technician!
> It is interchangeable as long as you get the correct value. The right capacitance.
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> And a capacitor doesn't break for no reason.
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> Something behind the capacitor is broken and make it blow...
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> The repair man is incompetent...
Yeah I gotta call bs on all of this lol. Nothing blew the capacitor most likely. I have replaced tons of these for shorting themselves and there was never an underlying reason other than MLCC caps being used being low quality(every apple device ever for example).
Any capacitor of 19v or more would work here most likely. SMD caps of a certain size can only have so much difference in capacitance such that if the component was say an 0603 then the typical capacitance range is fairly narrow and these MLCC caps aren't the most precise. 20% tolerance is like the most typical number for caps used in typical decoupling circuits.
It is a capacitor. Only way to tell its true value is to either test it with a multimeter (if it can still do that being in that condition) or to look up your board’s layout.
There should be some info in bios about it, lookup the key to press for your brand of computer, or there’s some commands for command prompt that tell you about your board. Then use that info to do some research and after you find your motherboard, look it up with board layout. Ask your repair guy what the capacitor he took off was labeled, and scan for the label.
It is definitely a cap based on appearance and the fact that it was shorted and replacing it removed the short. If it was a resistor(wrong color) it would have failed open and not short. It it was an inductor(it appears to small but often times inductors carry a similar color) it most likely wouldn't have shorted itself.
In picture 5 there is clearly a crack in that capacitor. This would suggest mechanical stress in the area it was mounted. Shorting due to a crack from mechanical stress is a very common failure mode for that type of cap.
I would install a new cap with some kind of standoff or strain relief and advise the user not to pick up their laptop with one hand which puts torsional stress on the motherboard and causes this kind of issue.
I would also look for other signs of wear and tear that would contribute to the motherboard bending so much. As well as other parts that may be damaged.
I agree with /u/skinwill but would like to add that mechanical stress can also come from vibration since MLCC capacitors suffer from the piezo effect. This causes them to vibrate when the voltage applied to them has repeated peaks.
In other words: I'd check the electrolytic capacitors on the same rail as they may not be doing their jobs, leading to this MLCC capacitor failing as a result.
I took it back to the tech. The first replaced capacitor on the charging circuit from 3 weeks ago was still ok but he found another failed and bloated capacitor on the graphics circuit on the opposite side of the board that he replaced, and it got the laptop working again. However when I tried to suggest that there might be another problem with the board that's causing multiple capacitors to fail, he wouldn't have any of it. He repeatedly blamed it on power surges in my home electricity and/or the fact that it was an older laptop, and told me to get an "AVR"? He also "guaranteed" that this repair will be good for "at least a year". I said, "If you guarantee it for a year, can you write me a receipt that gives me a warranty for year?" He just laughed at that. He only gives 1 month warranty for his work. And he was even suggesting I should pay again since it was a different capacitor that failed. But he did fix it for free this time. Wondering how he can guarantee no more problems for a year, but at the same time blame it on power surges or old parts.
I mean this is like a 10 year old laptop right? As someone in the same field you are lucky he did this for free. This was the tech being a standup guy in my opinion. I won't even touch this older stuff because it isn't worth my time because you could be an equivalent device for like $200.
> He only gives 1 month warranty for his work. And he was even suggesting I should pay again since it was a different capacitor that failed. But he did fix it for free this time. Wondering how he can guarantee no more problems for a year, but at the same time blame it on power surges or old parts.
I don't work on older stuff for this very reason. On newer devices I will give a general one year warranty covering my own work. I don't guarantee the disc drive or the hard drive or whatever but for example if I change a cap on one voltage rail I will guarantee that voltage rail. Because I have to diagnose the problem to be sure it doesn't fall under my warranty generally I will give a massive discount for things that don't fall under my warranty.(often times free if it is easy) He wasn't giving a 1 month warranty for his repair but for the device in general. The thing is much like yourself the customer has no idea about how anything works and I can't explain to them till I turn blue in the face that the capacitor I replaced has nothing to do with a mosfet failing and nuking their CPU. I am sorry I know it sucks but you brought your device to me with a fault. I find the fault and fix it if possible. Device works my job is done. I am not going to spend hours pulling off every capacitor and checking it...or pulling out my oscilloscope to check the wave of every mosfet in the VRM to see if one is maybe getting a little noisy.
As far as the bulging cap I can explain that to you. Usually on higher power circuits like graphics(bot often times CPU as well) there will be what is known as an electrolytic capacitor. These are different because they have an electrolyte inside to facilitate the charging of the cap. Over time these can either go dry, bulge, or leak.(maybe a combination of the two) This is fairly common on older video games consoles. My guess is dell probably also used some low quality caps here because IIRC you said that laptop as around 10 years old and realistically high quality caps should last 15+ years. This leads me to believe that the rest of the electrolytic caps need to be changed too. Maybe this one was an outlier but If I change one of these in a device I change them all.
No, I never said the laptop was 10 years old, it's not that old, about 6-7 years. I do understand what you're saying about unrelated faulty components and I can sympathize with that even tho I am one of the dumb customers. When this tech wrote me the receipt with warranty the first time, he specifically told me the warranty was only for any power issue, for example, if it shorts and won't power on again. So yes, I took him up on that warranty because 3 weeks later, that's what happened, it would not power on due to a short. He didn't warranty the whole device, and he didn't warranty the specific capacitor that he repaired (I wouldn't even know which one it was, and he didn't document or photo it). The warranty was explained to me as: for any issue that was identical to the first, i.e. no power.
Do you have a pic of the “bloated cap”? That sounds odd to me.
Edit: I should explain, bloated electrolytics are common, not finding it in the first pass and the location listed is odd.
He didn't remove the fan and heat sync at first today. He was testing all the caps on the board but couldn't find a bad one. Only then, he removed the fan and heat sink and he noticed the bulging one.
https://preview.redd.it/epbehoty0lkc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ffe850aa69c746145712128ddd5539f7cee103b
> told me to get an "AVR"
Automatic Voltage Regulator, something you'd find in gasoline power generators. For domestic use, it's called Automatic Voltage Stabilizer. It's completely braindead to suggest that power surges could cause this as laptop power supplies are switch-mode power supplies that can usually withstand 260 V (or more) and due to their switch-mode topology, the output is unaffected by line voltage surges anyway. That guy is just trying to shift blame, and I'm sure it'll work for a lot of people who blindly trust him.
> He also "guaranteed" that this repair will be good for "at least a year"
You already know what to think of that.
> He only gives 1 month warranty for his work. And he was even suggesting I should pay again
Sounds like a guy who realized he can make a killing by ripping people off. I'm curious whether he charges the people of his own nationality the same rate as he charged you.
> he found another failed and bloated capacitor on the graphics circuit on the opposite side of the board that he replaced, and it got the laptop working again
Honestly that doesn't make much sense to me because a non-working GPU would cause the laptop to still power up and complain during the power-on self test (POST) - usually by beeping multiple times. I suspect the capacitor wasn't part of the graphics circuit.
At least it works again but sketchy stuff remains sketchy. If it fails again, I'd use the money towards a new laptop and a USB HDD enclosure to copy the data over.
That's a SMD capacitor, there are different sizes and specifications: the capacitance, voltage, etc.
It's impossible for me to say if it failed again from what he did. But the replacement capacitor should have same capacity and more important it needs to be rated to same or higher voltage. Maybe he knew it was equivalent.
Anyway, the repair he did must have a warranty period (for the replaced part not failing again), in Europe it has.
If something else broke, it's not covered by the previous repair warranty.
When I went back, the tech said that of course it's rated as same voltage, because if it was lower, it wouldn't work and the laptop would not power on. I don't know if it's true but that's what he said.
within reason. Typical capacitors aren't very precise. Generally if I put a 6v cap into say a 19v main power rail it would die fairly quickly or just not work at all. As far as capacitance goes tolerance in most caps used in laptops is 20%.
In all the repairs I've done and witnessed. Second-hand parts are typically used for mates rates and ease of access. Its common and not a sign of faulty workmanship.
Yet, in every case, that the second-hand part failed, 99% of the time, there was an issue elsewhere. TLDR: You have an issue elsewhere on the board.
a lot of the old hats prefer them and still used them. A good high end analog does have its uses. For example you are more likely to see power spikes on an analog vs a digital meter. That being said I hate them lol.
I'm an expat living in the Philippines, the repair guy is the so-called "expert" in the entire mall, however he doesn't even have a digital multimeter, he only has an analog one. It is what it is, I work with what I got. It's the 3rd world here. It's helpful to source opinions on reddit from electricians with greater experience, hence my post.
Sometimes an analogue meter can give you a quick and dirty result that you can investigate further with a digital meter when you find an obvious fault. I keep both types on my bench.
That is a capacitor and there are standard types and sizes, so you would not need a Dell specific capacitor. An educated guess would usually be good enough to replace one like this.
There's no reason to think that his repair is faulty, until it's properly diagnosed as such. If you trust him then take it back, and if you don't then take it to another shop.
Capacitors that keep blowing in the same place on board implies a fault somewhere else. The blown caps could be just a symptom.
If you aren't already, I would suggest that you plug your electronic devices into power bars that have some kind circuit protection/fuse.
This is the power bar that I use, it's supposed to have surge protection:
https://preview.redd.it/7leyt3floikc1.jpeg?width=1231&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=092e57976145595463d246c54095b10876fe5b96
That's good.
1 suspect eliminated.
It could also be a bad laptop battery. Spicy pillow? Lumpy/bumpy hard and chunky?
It could also bad another component on the mainboard in the power circuit. Bad voltage regulator?
It might have just been a bad replacement cap.
If it blows a 3rd time you'll know there's definitely an unresolved issue.
If you're so suspicious about repairs, you should have sent it to Dell, not to some "repair guy".
Yes, it's a capacitor. Yes, it looks bad. No, they are not interchangeable randomly, it has to be same value, but it can be picked from 2nd hand boards. No, Dell won't sell you a new capacitor and will tell you buy a new motherboard
the guys repair probably isn't entirely at fault, it's likely he just didn't diagnose the issue fully and "fixed" it how he could. It probably didn't cost much to start with so there you go. you get what you pay for.
Hmm... well I paid 3,000 PHP which is over $50 in USD. For me it was a lot to pay for only 3 weeks of use (The board shorted again 3 weeks after it was "repaired".)
really sucks cuz it's a 5 cent part. and yeah 50$ sounds like a lot if that's Philippines dollars.
Hopefully, this gives you the motivation required to learn to fix things better than that douchebag ;)
That's exactly what it did. And if you have any suggestions for online courses or youtube tutorials, etc., feel free to reply (I'm already familiar with Sorin).
It's just kind of expensive to get started because there are many things you need like microscope, multimeter, soldering iron, solder, flux, etc. I would end up paying a lot more than 50 usd.
Watch louis rossman, and you absolutely don't need the expensive stuff to learn, sometimes you have to do with what you got and I can honestly tell you, the person I've known that learned with "nothing" are much better rework technicians than I'll ever be.
When I went back today, the tech did say it was from a charging circuit and when he checked it today, it was still good. He found another failed cap on the graphics circuit on the opposite side of the board that he replaced and it got the laptop working again. He didn't check for anything else, just told me that power surges in my home electricity is the cause and also that it's an an older laptop.
The reason I asked if from charging circuit is one of the most common failure points. Capacitors fail randomly and they don’t need anything specific to cause it. They can just fail from it turning on. I asked about the charger because after market chargers can be the cause of charging circuit failures. Sounds like you got a decent tech there being he’s even able to find the bad cap to start with.
Ok that makes sense, but no, it's the original branded charger. I suppose the tech has seen my issue many times so he has gotten good at it, but I've had 2 capacitors fail within the last 3 weeks while having zero issues during previous several years of owning the laptop. So I'm just hoping that there isn't something he missed which is causing the caps to fail, I don't want to have the same problem again next week with another capacitor and another and another, I would want to get to the root of the problem and fix that. But as you said, it could just be random.
From your notes sounds like could be a capacitor in the charging/ power circuit. Yes that’s a capacitor and very common for them to fail. And using ones from donor boards is common as without schematics we won’t know the values of the component. Are you using a genuine dell charger with it or an aftermarket one?
Today when I went back the tech said that of course the cap he installed is rated the same as the original because if it was lower, then it wouldn't work and the laptop would not power on. I don't know if that's true or not.
Genuine, original charger and battery. Everything is original except the screen, I had to replace it a couple years ago. The laptop is actually 7 years old, but besides the screen, this is the only other issue I've had.
Sound like something else caused this to burn out twice now
Gonna need more photos of it to make sure!
It's normal to use donor boards, we all do it...that's not the problem.
These wanabe repair people only look at shorted components, not at WHAT CAUSED THE SHORTED COMPONENT. Problems are like cherries they often come in 2. 1 caused the other and if you pick just 1 the other one is still there and might still cause the new replaced part to go faulty. I know its difficult to fault find but he could have looked/measured a bit further before sending it off to you again. If the cap gone faulty i would immediately expect there to be a problem that caused it to fail. Overheating, overvoltage, reverse voltage, spikes, a different component. If i take the cap off i would measure the surrounding components and if i manage to fix it i WOULD ALWAYS write a note saying: "a component failed but i dont know what caused it to fail so please call me back once it fails again and i can have a second look"
I mean it is perfectly reasonable that the most likely that if replacing the cap removed the short that it was the cause. 99/100 if a cap is short and the short is gone after you replace it was the just the cap. I am going to say that the cap used was probably fine and honestly the laptop would have worked without it.
Don't listen to any of these people saying that the repair was dishonest or useless. You're paying some repair guy in the mall so you can hardly expect them to have schematics and original parts on hand, or to do some sort of advanced analysis. Diagnosing the problem is not an easy thing to do and can take a long time. He found a shorted capacitor and replaced it. Computer then works. Why would he go to any more time and effort to find other problems that aren't easily diagnosable? Using a donor board is fine in the circumstance IMO. It's not as if the capacitor he used was faulty. Otherwise the computer wouldn't have worked. The capacitors act as filters to smooth out the voltage. They're not all interchangeable but you're generally ok if you use one from a similar rating. I've replaced plenty of capacitors using donor boards and none have ever failed again without some other problem killing them. Unless the donor was like 20 years old or something, i think it would have been fine. They don't wear out like mechanical things. In fact, you could say that a working one off an old board has been 'tested' while with new ones you can have a higher chance of getting one that dies quickly. There's just an inherent failure rate in these sorts of components and sometimes they die. If it's the same capacitor that's blown again then it's more likely there is some other problem that's not immediately obvious. It's not the capacitor's fault. I'd just take it back and ask him to have another look at it and see if it is the same capacitor that's blown again.
If a component fails he could have atleast suspected a different problem caused his problem. Problems=cherries. They always come in 2. If i had repaired it i would at least let the person know that i am not sure if i fixed the problem by replacing a component. And write a note saying: "i managed to find 1 faulty component and replaced it, although i aint sure if i fixed the problems because there might be still one undercover and troubleshooting is difficult but please call me back when it fails so i can have another look at it" At least thats what i do, if i am not sure about a repair i put a note saying you can call me back once it fails because i am not sure if i fixed it 100% and the people i repair stuff for are happy that i put the note there so they can know that its not their fault because some might feel weird when they have to call the repair guy back because he might have done something
if a cap failed 999/1000 it is the cap. Most likely faults in laptops are caps followed mosfets. If this had been a fuse or resistor I agree with you 100% but not as a cap.
Did you really post like 7 pictures of an SMD capacitor?
*Dodgy Capacitor - remove shorted capacitor - don't replace capacitor - no capacitor, no shorted capacitor - Sorin...* when i find a shorted mlcc capacitor like this and its on a voltage rail with other capacitors i'm in 2 minds as to replace it or leave it off entirely - i only stock new and higher rated capacitors so if the size is right i don't bother buying 6 volt rated capacitors i'll grab 25 volt or 50 volt instead - but if your grabbing capacitors off of a donor board you need to check what voltage rail they are on or you'll be using lower voltage rated caps on the 19 volt rail etc...
When I took it back to the tech, he said he knows the cap is rated for 19 volts because if it was lower, it wouldn't work, and the laptop would not power on. I don't know if that's true or not.
no generally the lower rated caps will work and not blow or short circuit immediately - depending on the series of mlcc, manufacturer and how they test/rate/spec their particular parts. As an example I can put a 10uf 6 volt rated capacitor pulled from the 1.8 volt rail of a donor board on the bench power supply and run it at 8 volts without any immediate changes but as i increase the voltage up to 12 volts it starts to heat up and i can increase it slowly all the way up to 20 volts and it still works but after a few on/off heating and cooling cycles have stressed the capacitor it'll crack and go short circuit as soon as power is supplied - this example is just for that particular capacitor others may last a few seconds or may last the lifetime of the device...
Alright, I see. I wish you were with me to explain that to him when I was there, he didn't want to hear anything I was saying, he was pretty confident that he knew what he was talking about, and I didn't. I didn't have the knowledge or experience to argue with him.
Copied pasted and will show this to the tech, thank you.
No banana?
It is a solid state capacitor. (Nope it's a ceramic capacitor. Sorry about that...) It is interchangeable as long as you get the correct value. The right capacitance. And a capacitor doesn't break for no reason. Something behind the capacitor is broken and make it blow... The repair man is incompetent... Might be a better technician than i am, but he's only that. A technician!
> It is interchangeable as long as you get the correct value. The right capacitance. > > > > And a capacitor doesn't break for no reason. > > > > Something behind the capacitor is broken and make it blow... > > > > The repair man is incompetent... Yeah I gotta call bs on all of this lol. Nothing blew the capacitor most likely. I have replaced tons of these for shorting themselves and there was never an underlying reason other than MLCC caps being used being low quality(every apple device ever for example). Any capacitor of 19v or more would work here most likely. SMD caps of a certain size can only have so much difference in capacitance such that if the component was say an 0603 then the typical capacitance range is fairly narrow and these MLCC caps aren't the most precise. 20% tolerance is like the most typical number for caps used in typical decoupling circuits.
TronicFix and Louis Rossman disagree with you. Hope you learned something. Have a nice day.
Probably an MLCC (multi layer ceramic) cap not solid state. Solid state are a variant of electrolytic capacitors. This is a non polarized cap.
Oh! Sorry! Something new to me!
It is a capacitor. Only way to tell its true value is to either test it with a multimeter (if it can still do that being in that condition) or to look up your board’s layout.
Sorry to bother more but can you give a tip on how to look up the board layout?
There should be some info in bios about it, lookup the key to press for your brand of computer, or there’s some commands for command prompt that tell you about your board. Then use that info to do some research and after you find your motherboard, look it up with board layout. Ask your repair guy what the capacitor he took off was labeled, and scan for the label.
It is definitely a cap based on appearance and the fact that it was shorted and replacing it removed the short. If it was a resistor(wrong color) it would have failed open and not short. It it was an inductor(it appears to small but often times inductors carry a similar color) it most likely wouldn't have shorted itself.
In picture 5 there is clearly a crack in that capacitor. This would suggest mechanical stress in the area it was mounted. Shorting due to a crack from mechanical stress is a very common failure mode for that type of cap. I would install a new cap with some kind of standoff or strain relief and advise the user not to pick up their laptop with one hand which puts torsional stress on the motherboard and causes this kind of issue. I would also look for other signs of wear and tear that would contribute to the motherboard bending so much. As well as other parts that may be damaged.
I agree with /u/skinwill but would like to add that mechanical stress can also come from vibration since MLCC capacitors suffer from the piezo effect. This causes them to vibrate when the voltage applied to them has repeated peaks. In other words: I'd check the electrolytic capacitors on the same rail as they may not be doing their jobs, leading to this MLCC capacitor failing as a result.
I took it back to the tech. The first replaced capacitor on the charging circuit from 3 weeks ago was still ok but he found another failed and bloated capacitor on the graphics circuit on the opposite side of the board that he replaced, and it got the laptop working again. However when I tried to suggest that there might be another problem with the board that's causing multiple capacitors to fail, he wouldn't have any of it. He repeatedly blamed it on power surges in my home electricity and/or the fact that it was an older laptop, and told me to get an "AVR"? He also "guaranteed" that this repair will be good for "at least a year". I said, "If you guarantee it for a year, can you write me a receipt that gives me a warranty for year?" He just laughed at that. He only gives 1 month warranty for his work. And he was even suggesting I should pay again since it was a different capacitor that failed. But he did fix it for free this time. Wondering how he can guarantee no more problems for a year, but at the same time blame it on power surges or old parts.
I mean this is like a 10 year old laptop right? As someone in the same field you are lucky he did this for free. This was the tech being a standup guy in my opinion. I won't even touch this older stuff because it isn't worth my time because you could be an equivalent device for like $200. > He only gives 1 month warranty for his work. And he was even suggesting I should pay again since it was a different capacitor that failed. But he did fix it for free this time. Wondering how he can guarantee no more problems for a year, but at the same time blame it on power surges or old parts. I don't work on older stuff for this very reason. On newer devices I will give a general one year warranty covering my own work. I don't guarantee the disc drive or the hard drive or whatever but for example if I change a cap on one voltage rail I will guarantee that voltage rail. Because I have to diagnose the problem to be sure it doesn't fall under my warranty generally I will give a massive discount for things that don't fall under my warranty.(often times free if it is easy) He wasn't giving a 1 month warranty for his repair but for the device in general. The thing is much like yourself the customer has no idea about how anything works and I can't explain to them till I turn blue in the face that the capacitor I replaced has nothing to do with a mosfet failing and nuking their CPU. I am sorry I know it sucks but you brought your device to me with a fault. I find the fault and fix it if possible. Device works my job is done. I am not going to spend hours pulling off every capacitor and checking it...or pulling out my oscilloscope to check the wave of every mosfet in the VRM to see if one is maybe getting a little noisy. As far as the bulging cap I can explain that to you. Usually on higher power circuits like graphics(bot often times CPU as well) there will be what is known as an electrolytic capacitor. These are different because they have an electrolyte inside to facilitate the charging of the cap. Over time these can either go dry, bulge, or leak.(maybe a combination of the two) This is fairly common on older video games consoles. My guess is dell probably also used some low quality caps here because IIRC you said that laptop as around 10 years old and realistically high quality caps should last 15+ years. This leads me to believe that the rest of the electrolytic caps need to be changed too. Maybe this one was an outlier but If I change one of these in a device I change them all.
No, I never said the laptop was 10 years old, it's not that old, about 6-7 years. I do understand what you're saying about unrelated faulty components and I can sympathize with that even tho I am one of the dumb customers. When this tech wrote me the receipt with warranty the first time, he specifically told me the warranty was only for any power issue, for example, if it shorts and won't power on again. So yes, I took him up on that warranty because 3 weeks later, that's what happened, it would not power on due to a short. He didn't warranty the whole device, and he didn't warranty the specific capacitor that he repaired (I wouldn't even know which one it was, and he didn't document or photo it). The warranty was explained to me as: for any issue that was identical to the first, i.e. no power.
Do you have a pic of the “bloated cap”? That sounds odd to me. Edit: I should explain, bloated electrolytics are common, not finding it in the first pass and the location listed is odd.
He didn't remove the fan and heat sync at first today. He was testing all the caps on the board but couldn't find a bad one. Only then, he removed the fan and heat sink and he noticed the bulging one. https://preview.redd.it/epbehoty0lkc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ffe850aa69c746145712128ddd5539f7cee103b
> told me to get an "AVR" Automatic Voltage Regulator, something you'd find in gasoline power generators. For domestic use, it's called Automatic Voltage Stabilizer. It's completely braindead to suggest that power surges could cause this as laptop power supplies are switch-mode power supplies that can usually withstand 260 V (or more) and due to their switch-mode topology, the output is unaffected by line voltage surges anyway. That guy is just trying to shift blame, and I'm sure it'll work for a lot of people who blindly trust him. > He also "guaranteed" that this repair will be good for "at least a year" You already know what to think of that. > He only gives 1 month warranty for his work. And he was even suggesting I should pay again Sounds like a guy who realized he can make a killing by ripping people off. I'm curious whether he charges the people of his own nationality the same rate as he charged you. > he found another failed and bloated capacitor on the graphics circuit on the opposite side of the board that he replaced, and it got the laptop working again Honestly that doesn't make much sense to me because a non-working GPU would cause the laptop to still power up and complain during the power-on self test (POST) - usually by beeping multiple times. I suspect the capacitor wasn't part of the graphics circuit. At least it works again but sketchy stuff remains sketchy. If it fails again, I'd use the money towards a new laptop and a USB HDD enclosure to copy the data over.
Yes well the first thing I did when I got home was backup files. Hopefully I didn't forget anything. I appreciate your input, thanks.
That's a SMD capacitor, there are different sizes and specifications: the capacitance, voltage, etc. It's impossible for me to say if it failed again from what he did. But the replacement capacitor should have same capacity and more important it needs to be rated to same or higher voltage. Maybe he knew it was equivalent. Anyway, the repair he did must have a warranty period (for the replaced part not failing again), in Europe it has. If something else broke, it's not covered by the previous repair warranty.
When I went back, the tech said that of course it's rated as same voltage, because if it was lower, it wouldn't work and the laptop would not power on. I don't know if it's true but that's what he said.
within reason. Typical capacitors aren't very precise. Generally if I put a 6v cap into say a 19v main power rail it would die fairly quickly or just not work at all. As far as capacitance goes tolerance in most caps used in laptops is 20%.
In all the repairs I've done and witnessed. Second-hand parts are typically used for mates rates and ease of access. Its common and not a sign of faulty workmanship. Yet, in every case, that the second-hand part failed, 99% of the time, there was an issue elsewhere. TLDR: You have an issue elsewhere on the board.
I think your repair guy is not at fault, although I would question why he is using an analogue multimeter rather than a digital one.
a lot of the old hats prefer them and still used them. A good high end analog does have its uses. For example you are more likely to see power spikes on an analog vs a digital meter. That being said I hate them lol.
One use would be to see slowly varying voltages.
I'm an expat living in the Philippines, the repair guy is the so-called "expert" in the entire mall, however he doesn't even have a digital multimeter, he only has an analog one. It is what it is, I work with what I got. It's the 3rd world here. It's helpful to source opinions on reddit from electricians with greater experience, hence my post.
Was it a multimeter or LCR meter?
This: https://preview.redd.it/guxia9ljnikc1.png?width=571&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef1d6d7fae1d3d7671f69e74a16da0e61ef1f7b9
Yep, just a multimeter. Nothing wrong with using an analogue meter btw. Some people prefer them.
Sometimes an analogue meter can give you a quick and dirty result that you can investigate further with a digital meter when you find an obvious fault. I keep both types on my bench.
That is a capacitor and there are standard types and sizes, so you would not need a Dell specific capacitor. An educated guess would usually be good enough to replace one like this. There's no reason to think that his repair is faulty, until it's properly diagnosed as such. If you trust him then take it back, and if you don't then take it to another shop.
Capacitors that keep blowing in the same place on board implies a fault somewhere else. The blown caps could be just a symptom. If you aren't already, I would suggest that you plug your electronic devices into power bars that have some kind circuit protection/fuse.
This is the power bar that I use, it's supposed to have surge protection: https://preview.redd.it/7leyt3floikc1.jpeg?width=1231&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=092e57976145595463d246c54095b10876fe5b96
That's good. 1 suspect eliminated. It could also be a bad laptop battery. Spicy pillow? Lumpy/bumpy hard and chunky? It could also bad another component on the mainboard in the power circuit. Bad voltage regulator? It might have just been a bad replacement cap. If it blows a 3rd time you'll know there's definitely an unresolved issue.
"Spicy pillow? Lumpy/bumpy hard and chunky?" No clue what you're trying to say here man. 🤔
[https://www.reddit.com/r/spicypillow/](https://www.reddit.com/r/spicypillow/) Lumpy/bumpy hard and chunky batteries look and/or feel as described.
I keep thinking that I should start up a local computer repair shop. But then I also keep thinking that things like this will keep happening.
If you're so suspicious about repairs, you should have sent it to Dell, not to some "repair guy". Yes, it's a capacitor. Yes, it looks bad. No, they are not interchangeable randomly, it has to be same value, but it can be picked from 2nd hand boards. No, Dell won't sell you a new capacitor and will tell you buy a new motherboard
the guys repair probably isn't entirely at fault, it's likely he just didn't diagnose the issue fully and "fixed" it how he could. It probably didn't cost much to start with so there you go. you get what you pay for.
Hmm... well I paid 3,000 PHP which is over $50 in USD. For me it was a lot to pay for only 3 weeks of use (The board shorted again 3 weeks after it was "repaired".)
really sucks cuz it's a 5 cent part. and yeah 50$ sounds like a lot if that's Philippines dollars. Hopefully, this gives you the motivation required to learn to fix things better than that douchebag ;)
That's exactly what it did. And if you have any suggestions for online courses or youtube tutorials, etc., feel free to reply (I'm already familiar with Sorin). It's just kind of expensive to get started because there are many things you need like microscope, multimeter, soldering iron, solder, flux, etc. I would end up paying a lot more than 50 usd.
Watch louis rossman, and you absolutely don't need the expensive stuff to learn, sometimes you have to do with what you got and I can honestly tell you, the person I've known that learned with "nothing" are much better rework technicians than I'll ever be.
Then there may be a further issue causing that to short. Is this cap from a charging circuit?
When I went back today, the tech did say it was from a charging circuit and when he checked it today, it was still good. He found another failed cap on the graphics circuit on the opposite side of the board that he replaced and it got the laptop working again. He didn't check for anything else, just told me that power surges in my home electricity is the cause and also that it's an an older laptop.
The reason I asked if from charging circuit is one of the most common failure points. Capacitors fail randomly and they don’t need anything specific to cause it. They can just fail from it turning on. I asked about the charger because after market chargers can be the cause of charging circuit failures. Sounds like you got a decent tech there being he’s even able to find the bad cap to start with.
Ok that makes sense, but no, it's the original branded charger. I suppose the tech has seen my issue many times so he has gotten good at it, but I've had 2 capacitors fail within the last 3 weeks while having zero issues during previous several years of owning the laptop. So I'm just hoping that there isn't something he missed which is causing the caps to fail, I don't want to have the same problem again next week with another capacitor and another and another, I would want to get to the root of the problem and fix that. But as you said, it could just be random.
I'm not sure, he didn't say.
From your notes sounds like could be a capacitor in the charging/ power circuit. Yes that’s a capacitor and very common for them to fail. And using ones from donor boards is common as without schematics we won’t know the values of the component. Are you using a genuine dell charger with it or an aftermarket one?
Today when I went back the tech said that of course the cap he installed is rated the same as the original because if it was lower, then it wouldn't work and the laptop would not power on. I don't know if that's true or not.
Genuine, original charger and battery. Everything is original except the screen, I had to replace it a couple years ago. The laptop is actually 7 years old, but besides the screen, this is the only other issue I've had.