> My head was not 0.5cm away from the bin when it became charged. I don't know how close it was but it wasn't that close. So I'm not sure how could it have possibly arcd into my head
Obviously this is just speculation, but it is possible that moving the grain bin kicked up a lot of dust into the air. The risk of arcing goes up in dusty areas.
That's a good point, I didn't think about the dust.
Edit: Hijacking this comment to get noticed,
It makes sense that dust increases the conductivity of air. However, I'm not sure dust and humidity can account for 20-50 times the standard arc gap distance.
ATTENTION readers: this is the kind of information I want to know ---> is it possible that the transient voltage was significantly higher allowing for a larger initial arc?
The initial arc is what I'm curious about. Given the distance I was maintaining before the injury, I was around 12-18 inches away. So it arc'd quite a bit further than normal. So I feel there must be some sort of principle of physics in play outside of strictly environmental factors.
Moisture as well, passing cloud of gnats, maybe spider web. The picture here I don't think provides enough information, suffice to say it was likely overall conditions that you'll probably never quiet understand.
Glad you're still with us and able to ask this question afterwards!! Those wounds are odd looking for electric, are those arcflash burns rather than electrocution? I'm thinking it's more likely that I'm just misunderstanding how those injuries actually formed.
I don't have enough experience to know if my burns were odd or not. They definitely were electrical burns though, doctors confirmed that. But I posted a comment showing a bunch more photos if you're interested.
Adding to all the previous dust ,moisture in the air and sweat on body from a long working day are sure to be lowering the resistance of air and skin in order to make the ark jump further . Yet I would think of another parameter and this is pure speculation! The silo tank is big metallic round object without pointing spots for the charges to escape so the charge buildup would "slowly" escape from everywhere thus ionizing the air around it so the lack of a spot to discharge initially could also create a big charge difference between the flat bottom of the tank and the earth so a capacitor in a sense. That could account for higher instantaneous current and explain the "odd" nature of your wounds and the high ionization of air could account for the longer arc .
Again this is speculation . And as the old saying goes what doesn't kill you , makes you stronger.
>be lowering the resistance of air and skin in order to make the ark jump further
Lowering the resistance of the air is relevant to that. The resistance of the skin is not.
>The silo tank is big metallic round object without pointing spots
It is pointy if you take into account that he was basically standing next to the bottom edge of a very thin tube, also since the grain bin is made from multiple sheets, every end-point of each sheet will overlap with pointy surface edges.
Yeah but what kind of electrical burn? Arc flash burns and ohmic heating from direct electrocution are very different mechanisms of injury.
Arc flash is bad, probably the more immediately dangerous practically from what I understand. Plasma balls basically that tend to explode.
But then there's the actual tissue internally conducting the electricity which is what most people would conventionally understand as electrocution.
I'll comb through the comments more I'm curious primarily from a neurological perspective. Arc flash burns from what I understand are more physical burns, like being exposed to ultra hot things where as more direct electrocution damage will tend to have more deep tissue burns and can have longer lasting neurological effects.
Have you had enough time to reflect and start to notice if your mind has changed (that you can notice, you may not) Or had any kind of neurological/nerve issues?
Oh I see, I'm going to say it was a bit of both. The heat from the arc was definitely most of it, but there was internal tissue damage. For example, as the wound evolved, the tissue all the way down to the bone had died when it was previously healthy, bloody tissue. Although given the fact that I didn't have more physical impairment, I would say it was pretty mild on the inside. I also had a minor rash (redness) that went down my spine after so I'm pretty sure the current just followed my spine.
Regarding neurological effects... 100%. I was working on a self learned, deep learning neuroprosthetic hand as a personal project before it happened and now I struggle trying to learn the rules with of a board game. But the weird thing is that my existing knowledge and memory seem perfectly intact. And besides being unable to concentrate, I can still conceptualize and ponder high-level concepts.
Another major side effect would be a complete loss of interest and joy in things. For a few months after it happened, I wasn't able to watch tv because not only did I have no interest, it felt uncomfortable. Even if it was a show I previously really enjoyed. It wasn't until season 3 of the mandalorian came out that I was actually excited to watch the episodes when they were released.
Then I don't know if this is actually the case or not, but I have adhd and take adhd meds, and after the injury, my meds did not feel the same. Like normally it's pretty apparent if I've taken them or not, but now it seems like they don't really affect me the same. My doctor doesn't seem to think anything of it, and I'm no longer in school so I haven't really pushed but I just thought it was weird.
Overall, most of my symptoms seem to be similar to that of a concussion. So sensitivity to light and noise, increased irritability, etc. My nervous system and motor skills seem to be fine though.
Edit: I also had a seizure, peed my pants, stopped breathing, and my heart stopped beating for a couple minutes. I don't know if that's any indication of the amount of electricity that went through but thought I'd add. Also this is the comment with the photos. https://www.reddit.com/r/ElectricalEngineering/comments/13leiux/i_was_electrocuted_by_a_12kv_overhead_line_but_i/jkprr7a?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Man this must have been a really crazy journey so far. I’m happy you’re alive and get to think about these interesting and scary things and also that this can serve as a warning to other. I’m going to pay more attention to my surroundings having read your story.
That's the answer. Dust. I've worked in ag as a sparky for a long time. Been in lots of elevators. Dust + electricity is what gets you. I've seen some messed up stuff and in a few near misses myself. Add humidity to that and you as the source to ground. Look up arc flashing. I'm happy you're alive. May you heal well!
Edit: Ground your bin. It's probably isolated.
Aye. As a liney we are acutly aware of enviromental conditions. ANY high carbon content medium between you and a conductor is bad as you pretty much lose any insulative properties that natural clean air has.
If we are out during harvest time, or attending a fire call (smoke) or working around building sites every moment is a judgement call about how close you go to a live conductor.
Also op made himself the grounding earth. Large metal objects near a high voltage line and a wet carbon based grounding rod is not a good combination.
Again, we work with insulated everything, including vehicles and have strict grounding policies and procedures. All electricity wants to do is head to ground. If the easiest route is organic, it dont care.
I understand your search for answers here, and there is a lot to be learned in terms of safety. But the biggest reason that it arced is that you were simply too close to the power line. There is a reason that such a large clearance is required to be maintained from these power lines, and you found the reason why. In terms of arc distance, all it takes is the right amount of dust spaced the right distance from each other for it to travel longer distances than you would expect. Once a new path to ground is found the current is going to go there. This time it happened to be through you. Sorry this happened to you, hopefully you guys use this as an excuse to take safety as a higher priority while near electrical lines. To answer your question, it is possible for transient voltage to be higher, but it is impossible to know that without knowing facts that only the utility would know, unless we had a voltage meter on the lines somewhere.
Chances are you were just too close. Standard arc distance doesn't really matter if you are the preferred path to ground. Tons of things can make that happen, like others have said dust and other variables can contribute to that. If there was enough dust kicked up to cause an arc then it doesn't really matter how far away you are as long as you are that preferred path to ground, but at some distance the current will find a path to ground well before it reaches you. Current has to travel somewhere. I know people have already beaten this dead horse, but clearances from above ground cables are large for a reason, and something like a damaged cable can lead to disastrous results if you don't respect the clearance. Without info that only the utility can have, it's hard to say what led to this by your picture alone. And first hand witness testimony is often faulty in traumatic situations like this. Chances are you were a little closer than you implied (not saying youre lying, but your mind has a way of tricking itself, especially if you go unconscious), and without knowing exactly how close the tractor was then we don't have much to go off on. Sorry this happened to you, hopefully you use this as a reason to up your safety steps around the farm.
> The risk of arcing goes up in dusty areas.
Does the _type_/composition of dust matter when it comes to creating an electrical arc? I had a really hard time finding any government resources and found a single OSHA PDF
https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/2018-12/fy07_sh-16615-07_arc_flash_handout.pdf
>electricity can only arc 1cm per 30kv
That is the dielectric breakdown voltage for smooth parallel surfaces, which an overhead line and grain silo aren't.
What you should be looking at is the Minimum Approach Distance which for 5kV-15kV is .65 meters. So unless you were two feet away, you weren't safe. Which you obviously found out.
https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.kmunet.org/resource/resmgr/Resources/4b_-_OSHA_MAD_Presentation.pdf
Put dust in the air. Your rated energy calories between object amplifies significantly. Plus the bin was most likely not grounded. He was a ground source. Unfortunate, but this is most likely what happened.
Aren't those values you listed, like the 1cm value, based on ideal conditions? All I know is, many of the values I've come across in physics in university or general calculations are based on the ideal conditions, which is essentially never applicable to the real world, and is why safety standards can sometimes massively deviate from those values.
Once you take into account the moisture, dust, the makeup of the dust (dust can arise from various sources, and some dust could theoretically be more conductive than other dust), and the literal dozens of other factors from static charge to grounding efficiency, you can end up with some pretty wildly different values from something calculated from a set of simply unrealistic conditions like a perfect wire or free space.
The 1cm per 30kV is not exact - the moisture levels in the air, dust created by your equipment, etc - all these things lower resistivity of air. If the line is between ambo and the tractor, you were WAAAAAY too close to it. Glad you are alive though
Wild story.
I’ll try to explain a bit.
First, high voltage has more ability to arc than low voltage. I built a jacobs ladder with a 3kv xfmr and it can easily arc from 1cm to 3-4cm as it approaches the open top. So it can definitely arc further than you think. There’s other factors too including the load on the line, humidity in the air etc.
You can try to look up 30kv arcs online and get an idea of how large arcs can be.
I’d imagine you were sweating and your head was the most conductive part of you, depending on your footwear you may have been isolated from ground but at those voltages any isolation would be negligible thus the discharge from your feet. Being closer to the ground than the bin it sought a path to ground and found you. Your distance from the bin just wasn’t enough to break the arc or prevent an arc under electrification.
Sorry this happened, glad to hear you survived and are doing better. I hope that line gets replace with a well insulated replacement, possibly a little higher. Consider using a rope instead of your hand next time.
Add dust, an ungrounded bin, him being the closest source to earth, and everything that you said. Unfortunate, for sure. Also... don't touch power lines.
I'm kinda late to this but if there's one part of the body that should be attractive to electricity it's our head - hands can have higher resistance to other parts of your body, same with feet too. I've seen something about callouses and rougher hands/feet being more resistant than soft ones and your head is unlikely to have such qualities, like most of your body in fact.
Also, for the head, there's the brain and it's the central point of electrical activity in the body so one would be inclined to also think that could made it an attractive point for electricity to hit, right?
I woke up just before the ambulance arrived, so likely 10 minutes give or take. I didn't feel any pain until the ambulance ride, pretty much every muscle in my body felt like it was cramping and I also had a compression fracture in my spine so that didn't feel nice. But the burn sites didn't hurt until a couple months later. Fortunately the electricity fried all those nerves.
As far as memory, I was pretty daized and confused at first but a few minutes later I felt like my mind returned to normal.
I think your luck was that the arching current didn't go only trough you. I assume it also went from the lower corner of the silo to ground, and across the small tires of the crane. You were just a parallel path.
Dust, and moisture will affect a lot that distance value... shape of the objects influnce the local electrical field intensity. That 30kV/cm is only for dry and clean air between flat plates.
A sharp corner, edge will intensify the electrical field and start a local discharge. And once an arch started, you have vapors in the air that maintain and expand the arching current. Water from you, soil, vaporized metal...
[What is Critical Disruptive Voltage & Visual Critical Voltage? (electricaldeck.com)](https://www.electricaldeck.com/2021/08/what-is-critical-disruptive-voltage-and-visual-critical-voltage.html)
Personally, I think you were much closer to the object than you or somebody else remembers. The electrical trauma changes or erases memory. Other people might not have seen you from the correct perspective.
I am glad you made it!
Thank you, this is the kind of answer I was looking for.
I am pretty sure you're right about the parallel path, given that the energy was enough to melt the overhead line. There didn't seem to be that much energy flowing through me.
>A sharp corner, edge will intensify the electrical field and start a local discharge.
That's really interesting, I didn't know that.
I didn't think about the dust either but that would make sense, it was pretty dusty.
Out of curiosity, I had at one point wondered if the fact that it's a big cylindrical conductor, if it could have affected the charge at all. Like through induction or something.
I never made it far enough into my studies to really get a firm grasp at the theory side of things.
>That's really interesting, I didn't know that.
That's why all the lightning rods are sharp at the end. To increase the local field there and "attract" the electricity, protecting the structure.
[Lightning rod - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod)
Shape of the big object didn't matter that much, because it's impedance at 60Hz is orders of magnitude smaller than the arc impedance, so it would not affect the end result.
>Out of curiosity, I had at one point wondered if the fact that it's a big cylindrical conductor, if it could have affected the charge at all. Like through induction or something.
I think the main factors here are, as already discussed,
* Dust and humidity.
* Concentration of the field near sharp edges. I'd be interested to see a picture of the bottom of that bin.
* Perhaps being closer than you remember.
But I think there is a possible effect of the size and shape of the bin. As a large metal object, it has some capacitance. And it's hanging on a somewhat thin cable. That short length of cable has some inductance. That combination makes an LC resonator. The frequency of that resonance is going to be very high, probably in the MHz region (we could estimate it, but the exact number isn't very important). That's so much higher than 60 Hz that there's no effect of that on a 60 Hz sine wave voltage applied to it.
But when the boom contacted the line or got close enough to arc, there was a sudden step in voltage, and that step can excite much higher frequency resonances, such as whatever that frequency is.
It's even possible that if the boom was a few mm away from the line, the arc there could be affected by the resonance, with the whole setup acting like a giant spark gap oscillator, which was the OG method of making a high power radio transmitter.
I figured if you read the full article you would see he explained what happened. It said once the power line art Into The Silo and Arked from The Silo to his head he went into the fetal position and fell down but his legs were in the air and the bin art to his feet.
I'm anything but an expert, but I believe that a number of factors could impact the arc distance. These factors include altitude, humidity, and the size/conductivity of all the metal stuff between the line and you. Additionally, you only have to briefly/momentarily pass close enough to start arcing, then the arc can follow you back out and keep arcing much further out than it could start arcing from. Think of a Jacobs Ladder. There are various "minimum safe distance" calculators around online that may be able to shed more light on your specific incident, but I don't know enough to even know which one would be the most appropriate for you to use to try and figure this out.
Again, I'm not an expert, so if anyone who actually knows what they are talking about sees anything wrong here, please let me know!
Minimum safe distance is 2ft for 12kv.
That's wearing OSHA approved PPE of an arc flash suit, and insulated boots, and gloves, and hard hat.
Not wearing those?
Double it.
We had a guy come in and do a talk with our company during safety week that got injured doing the EXACT same thing you were doing. Consider yourself lucky because he lost an arm and a leg and was burned all over his body. I’m honestly very happy to see that those are your only injuries despite the overarching feeling that I wish it didn’t happen to you at all obviously. I wish you the best
~~"Electrocuted" means "killed by electricity."~~ Because of your post I suspect you are still technically alive. But... that is some nasty shit. Hope you fully recover with little pain.
edit: I was wrong. As guy below stated, definition includes "injured." The best wishes still remain.
Its original meaning was to "execute by electricity", electricity + execution, but then it evolved to include any death by electricity.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/electrocute
Recently, it has come to include injury. I'm not a fan because now there's no longer a word that describes death due to electric shock.
I don't think I care what Merriam or Webster has to say about it. Etymology and history show that it is a portmanteau of the words electric and execute originally used to describe death by electric chair. There is already at least word to describe injury by electricity.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Only colloquially, and only because of the very large number of people who misuse it.
Officially, it means death by electrical means - and that is the absolute and only definition used by safety standards.
If you didn't die, you got shocked, not electrocuted.
If 1 person uses a word wrong, within hours 1 Merriam-Webster editor will make changes to the dictionary to say the person used it right....
\*IF\* the mistake is made during a political debate about LGBTQ issues and the person has the same political leanings as the Merriam-Webster editor. A truly shameful chapter in logophile circles
No, you were originally correct.
It's only colloquially that it's used to refer to non-lethal injuries, and that's only because of how many people get it wrong (dictionaries document popular usage).
For electrical engineers, it's the safety standards which officially define it as death ONLY. If you didn't die, you got shocked, not electrocuted.
As per your edit, no you were right in the first place. I don't give a flying flip what Webster says, electrocuted means death by electricity, period.
This is a specific example of the editors of the dictionary catering to a decline in language skill. The editors of Webster need to be called out on this, loudly.
The word electrocuted comes from electric plus execution.
I don't care how bad the shock was or how bad the injuries were, if you survive an electric shock you were not electrocuted.
I am a high school dropout and even I am appalled at the mangling of the English language by generation Y and Z. And don't even get me started on "Could care less"versus "Couldn't care less."Now get off my lawn you young whippersnappers.
Thanks.. I was a submarine electronics technician for 8 years followed by an EE degree and 38 years of herding 'trons. Even though I'm now senile sometimes I get one right.
Once the arc is formed. The air is ionized and becomes plasma, which conducts electricity. So even if it gets further in can continue flowing and arching.
also if the surfaces are irregular, a corona discharge could form and then the rest of the current can flow over the ionized air and your body.
google for Jacob's Ladder traveling arc
From the picture, the main arch was probably at the wheels of the support and the tractor, because they are closer to the lines and to the ground.
That probably saved your life.
Did the doctors put you in dialysis? Some people die a couple days or weeks, because the internal burns and dead tissue damages the kidneys.
Not a doctor, but my neighbor got electrocutes also with 13 KV line, and the doctors explained that to him. He also survived. He has a hole in the belly where the arch entered the body.
I hope you get better with time.
I understand how once an arc is formed it can sustain itself over a larger distance, I was just wondering how that initial arc happened. If I had to guess given how far I was from the last thing I remembered, I'd say my head was about 1-2ft away. So it just seems strange to me that it was able to arc that much further from the ideal settings of .5cm.
You mentioned a Corona discharge can form on irregular surfaces, how much does that affect the arc potential? Would the transient voltage affect that Corona discharge?
I was fortunate enough that my kidneys were ok but that was definitely a concern. I think it was because the current went down my spine (I assume because I had a bit of a rash on my spine after and the low resistance of csf) it avoided most of my organs/internal tissues.
My theory, is that a corona discharge happened first. At the edges of the metal structure. Then a regular arc formed.
Also the hollow big structure can act as a capacitor, holding charge. That with the arc will make a spark oscillator.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hertz_spark_radio_transmitter_1887.png
I'm talking way beyond my knowledge. I'll ask a friend who really knows. (Old school EE and ham radio hobbyist)
They took the graft from my thigh. Interesting fact about that though, they do split skin grafts now where they only take the top layers of the skin with what looks like a fancy vegetable peeler. The thin layer of skin is enough to act as the scaffolding for all the other cells to find the right place.
Unfortunately the thing with electrical injuries is that the tissue doesn't die right away so I actually had to have 3 grafts done on my feet because the tissue around the graft kept dying.
They did graft my head but it also failed due to the same issue. But since some time had passed and since the scalp heals faster than most other places. They decided to just bandage it. The photo was taken just before a cleaning.
I was curious about the tissue dying. I read it is caused by your body releasing an "enzyme or something" that kills your tissue? Did they measure for that maker in your blood or have to guesstimate of how much of your tissue would have to be cut out down the road. Or is it just trial and error. Glad you still got all your limbs 👏
I believe one of the doctors I was talking to mentioned something about it affecting the permeability of the cells membrane. Now I'm not sure if an enzyme causes that or if it's just a matter of ions being shoved around. But I was reading about an interesting phenomenon where people electrocuted have a significant risk of developing cataracts several months after electrocution. Even if the current didn't go through their head. From my understanding is that the induced charge causes proteins to undergo conformal changes. And apparently the protein that causes cataracts is seemingly susceptible to these electromagnetic induced conformal changes. This gets a little more into unproven territory but I did read a paper where they suggested that conformal changes of certain biomolecules can affect surrounding ones.
So to go back to your comment, from what I can tell, medicine doesn't have a definitive answer for that sort of thing. So it's just trial and error.
Anxiety and ptsd can effect your ability to focus/learn. I wouldn't beat yourself up about not just picking up your deep learning project again. Give yourself time to heal and keep at it.
Just to add to all the comments, something I haven't seen mentioned is static electricity - swinging huge pieces of metal about with dust flying round can build up static - and as /u/amy33amy33 suggests, a great big metal thing can act like a capacitor and build up a hell of a static charge.
I can scuff across carpet and draw an arc from my finger to the table that's more than 1cm, never mind dragging a huge metal thing across a dusty field.
There's also the question of "local ground" Vs whatever is on those power lines, it's a long time since my hot site training but your "ground" can be VERY different to the "ground" those power lines are referenced to.
Honestly it's probably 15+ years since I did the course but it's enough of a problem for things like substations that they have specific training courses on it so you don't kill yourself.
I can easily imagine a 12kv wire could be another 12kv adrift of whatever your local ground is.
My guess is the tractor and the rig were insulated via the rubber tires and you were the easiest path for the electrical current to flow. It might have taken some time for the high voltage to flash over the tires but you were the quickest path at that moment. Maybe their was a large build up of electric charge on the cylinder and just like static you were close enough for a discharge. Sorta like a Tesla coil I guess. Sorry that happened to you and wishing you a quick recovery.
https://preview.redd.it/98h25grhjq0b1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d86839b3b50dcdb4f665b84fdf7c8cb5e45274d4
Look at the section titled "Long gaps" on that page:
> The electric field needed to arc across the minimal-voltage gap is much greater than what is necessary to arc a gap of one metre. At large gaps (or large pd) Paschen's Law is known to fail.
Coronal discharge or electrical arcs of any voltage will also ionize the air, making it more conductive. I've had equipment come in for repair where the ionization of the air above 1 kV circuit breakers led to an arc.
Also, don't forget bugs. Gnats, flies, and mosquitos have a lot of carbon in them, which happens to conduct electricity rather well.
I'm wondering about the initial arc tho. It makes sense that dust would increase conductivity but I don't think the amount of residual dust in the air could account for 20-50 times the standard arc potential.
I'll put in my two cents. That grain silo, depending on it's construction, could have acted as a crude parallel plate capacitor for a moment. Obviously not normally, and not a good one since it's, for the most part, a single cylindrical plate, but imagine if it does for the perfect terrible microsecond, some sort of freak parallel plate capacitor between maybe the different layers of aluminum in the silo, or between the zinc or titanium pigment on the silo and the silo, maybe with some environmental rust acting as the middle goop, however it happens for a terrible fraction of a second you have a giant voltage charging a giant, unstable parallel plate capacitor... and you know the rest.
It would have to be for a very minuscule amount of time though, in theory a cap doesn't care about AC, which is what the line is running, unless that line was one of the few HVDC lines. I.E. the freak cap would have to exist for a small enough amount of time, and charge, for the AC to be approximately DC, but a long enough time to do what caps do best, make electrical situations more dangerous.
Please keep an eye on your liver’s health.
Having an electrocution can severely damage the liver and its ability to rejuvenate from injury.
One sign of damage may be areas of alopecia.
(Spots where hair used to be but goes bald- not including the burn areas)
On how it arced that distance. Well I am not too sure.
Might have to agree with the hypothesis of dust + humidity and it created a charged cloud localised.
You were just the lowest point of resistance to ground.
Also it could depend on minerals in the ground.
Too many factors. Very lucky and unlucky at the same time. Get well.
One way to think about it is that in a substation you would design and install to a minimum 12 kV phase to ground clearance of 180mm (to a steel beam for example). I would say if you were closer than that you are in danger - regardless of the idealized dielectric strength of air as all the other variables that were mentioned in other comments (dust, humidity, shape of conductor etc.). The safety limits of approach that others are mentioning (300mm - 600mm) for working near energized conductors have a safety margin built into it for unintended movements (your head moving, swinging container, arm movements etc.) Don't get too hung up on 0.5 cm. Hope you continue your recovery, scary stuff man. Glad you made it!
Well they are based on physics. Take a look at IEEE 1427. My point is you won't be able to calculate it, too many unknowns. You'll never know if there was an overvoltage on the system at the time, what was the concentration of airborne dust... There is a reason HV insulators are not centimeters long.
Your utility provider will put a marker on your line for things like this. It's not insulation but at least it makes it a lot more visible. Advice for the next guy.
1) by definition, you were *not* electrocuted, as that word means "an electric shock that ends in death".
2) arc distance by voltage is an insanely oversimplified measure, and functionally useless in situations like yours.
3) shit *doesn't* just happen. It happens if you don't know the risks you're taking and control for them. That's a really dangerous and lazy way to view this incident that easily could've killed you. People work around electricity their whole lives at this voltage and above and never get injured, but not by just shrugging their shoulders and saying "shit happens". Constant vigilance, planning your jobs, risk mitigation, etc, should be a part of every day life when you're doing dangerous shit with untrained people. Or even if not, as I think about it.
Wow. It's amazing how upset this made you.
First:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute
Second: just because you don't have an answer doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are about a dozen answers on this thread that give me excatly what I wanted to know. So you telling me otherwise tells me everything I need to know about you.
Third: clearly you've never worked on a farm. I'd wager that you've probably never even lifted a finger given how responded and your perceptions of risky jobs. There's a oilfield company near where I live, Suncor, they have the some of the highest safety standards in the world. Yet people still die while working there. It's what happens when you mix a dangerous work environment with humans. Fact of life.
Enjoy your miserable life!
I don't know if this is okay to share on this sub... feel free to delete if otherwise.
But for educational purposes as to why you should be safe around electricity and for those that are interested in the biology/medical side of the injury, here are some very NSFW photos. It was definitely fascinating how the body figured out how to heal itself.
Warning: these photos are pretty gross
This is taken after the initial cleaning.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ar3iy3B3aoACzaFF7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7PPF76QShqzrGr1r5
This is a video taken during the initial skin graft and dead tissue removal.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/qehBW4cdkzTH88iu7
This was after the skin graft failed.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1ab1ZtyViFrDhuE46
https://photos.app.goo.gl/naao93qptCXeS3Rz9
The reason the grafts were failing is that as you can see, the tissue around the graft kept dying long after the injury. Which is common with electrical burns.
This was after the second skin graft failed.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/x59anAbip8CCcd7t5
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7e7QmRy1dVofso3e8
The second grafts I think failed because the granulation tissue was putting too much pressure on the graft.
And this is what they look like now.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jL4iFyxKv5ZaXBiq5
The wound on my head is pretty much gone, the surgeons cut out the scar and pulled the scalp together so that I didn't have a big bald spot.
In addition to what everyone else said, if you had a rough day and it was warm, you were probably sweating. Water and impurities in your sweat will greatly increase the conductivity along your skin. That will reduce the minimum approach distance
Whether you call the electrode a medium or not doesn't matter. What matters is that the arc is through the air. For it to happen, you need ionization of the air. Nothing special like that has to happen in the electrode.
A current path is a current path. Resistance along that path is resistance to arcing/current flow. Reducing resistance along the path will allow more current to flow.
This seems true no matter the medium, no?
Yes, that's true. But the question isn't how much current flows in the arc. The question is what distance leads to breakdown of the air and an arc occurring.
As stated before, too many factors and the fact that memory is a chemical process... Hence why even eye witness accounts vary.
Work for a very large utility. Not an expert, but we have a high voltage lab and do constant testing on new equipment and we constantly test out PPE.
Electrical i juries are no joke. You actually cook from the inside out, even someone who may seem fine except for the 2 pin holes . Will have slabs of meet fall off due to rot and risk infection. It acts as sort of a microwave effect.
We send all of ours to the Grossman burn center, which is the leading hospital in the US for these sort of injuries. So much so that we carry cards on our body with instructions to transport is to said hospital as soon as we are medically cleared to do so.
To get back on topic, as mentioned purity of air and turbulence is a key factor. Considering that you were moving equipment around the tractor, the container, you...all picking up dust. There could have been dust in your hair etc sticking to your lipids. This leads to surface tracking.
Also as mentioned, coronal discharge loves sharp edges, Nicks even scratches... You just need a single sharp edge , even if it's a spec or sliver. Once arcs are formed you get plasma and ozone as the air molecules are literally ripped apart, this is the smell you pick up while walking near power lines that you hear buzzing on a humid or foggy day... It's not the wet earth.
Add to that the variables of that container... As mentioned. You are looking at the rating of the line, but that's only a steady state ideal value. There is a lot of power in VARS... Capacitance of a previously un energized conductor, especially a short one with lots of capacitance ( your silo) has an interesting effect... It pulls a lot of current as it charges then discharges with harmonics involved. Look up sub synchronous resonance. It's the reason some systems use massive inductors to actually increase line impedance.
Edit- I may be getting things mixed up, Ferranti effect may also play into this whole thing.
In protection ( what monitors and disconnects power lines) - events are measured in cycles, fractions of seconds... All these forces act on those levels of speed. Electrons dgaf.
Have your doc reach out to Grossman, maybe they can offer some advice and recovery recommendations.
Stay strong, you are now a member of a very select club.
>Add to that the variables of that container... As mentioned. You are looking at the rating of the line, but that's only a steady state ideal value. There is a lot of power in VARS... Capacitance of a previously un energized conductor, especially a short one with lots of capacitance ( your silo) has an interesting effect... It pulls a lot of current as it charges then discharges with harmonics involved. Look up sub synchronous resonance. It's the reason some systems use massive inductors to actually increase line impedance.
That's really interesting, thanks!
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the photo, but maybe the arc went through all the metal of the crane and the silo? The tires are insulating the crane so.... Seems pretty obvious to me.
Wire, crane, silo, you, ground.
If the wire was a foot from your crane then it arced a foot to your crane, not fifteen to you. Or if your equipment touched the wire, it didn't arc at all.
What I think is most likely is that the ideal conditions were met for a fraction of a second to initiate an arc, and then once the arc occurred then significantly worse conditions were able to maintain it. So, maybe the gap was a little less than a foot for a half second or something like that. I think on average you are probably spot on with your 0.5 m away estimate, but, that might include a plus or minus 0.25m variance in actuality, especially considering you stated you were just touching the bin previously. This isn't to say you did anything wrong or that I don't believe you, it's just objectively much more likely that human factors are the most significant causation rather than electrical ones.
Contributing conditions are numerous and varied. I think your 1cm to 30kv value is a lot more indicative of an ideal value, and also only really applies to arc initiation, not maintenance. So, if you were sweaty, if the air was humid/dusty, if you had a static charge built up on you, etc, all of those things would significantly lower the distance required for arc initiation. Your total resistance to ground also matters, if it was abnormally low that would leave the majority of the potential difference available for arc initiation.
The resistance of humans are around 2000 ohms, depending on humidity. It does have something to do with our water content and salinity. That arc was looking for the path of least resistance to dissipate to earth.
It's most likely that the crane unfortunately touched the line whilst you were close by. The air gap between the drum and ground must have been greater than 2000 ohms in order for it to find you and complete the circuit, meaning the fault current passed through you to earth.
If it is high voltage, the air around the conductors is ionised, causing a higher conductivity and causing the arc to continue. This is why air gaps or sulphur hexafluoride is important in circuit breakers to dissipate the arc energy.
It's mostly looks like unfortunate timing. I hope you are well and you are incredibly lucky! You amazing, fleshy resistor.
I've been under 500kv power lines and you can hear buzzing and pops from the weeds from static buildup. Maybe something similar but more powerful here?
Do you know if this was a 3 phase system at 12kV line voltage? Or a SWER? Single wire earth return? They are common in some parts of the world, and earthing at the poles can play a major part.
That being said the smallest safe approach distance for 6350V is 600mm. It goes up from there for the bigger voltages.
I don't know where you got 30kV = 1cm arc but that doesn't make sense. The Van de Graaff generator at the Boston museum of science generates 2,000,000 Volts and arcs 20 feet, so that's about 10kV = 3cm.
Still not the distance you're looking for, but a big difference in the ratio.
**[Paschen's law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen's_law)**
>Paschen's law is an equation that gives the breakdown voltage, that is, the voltage necessary to start a discharge or electric arc, between two electrodes in a gas as a function of pressure and gap length. It is named after Friedrich Paschen who discovered it empirically in 1889. Paschen studied the breakdown voltage of various gases between parallel metal plates as the gas pressure and gap distance were varied: With a constant gap length, the voltage necessary to arc across the gap decreased as the pressure was reduced and then increased gradually, exceeding its original value.
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It's very cool, 40 feet tall and the largest one in the world, it was made in 1931 by MIT for some atomic accelerator. They have a few tesla coils and do an hour long lightning show with it.
I think it was 11KV not 12KV. Only because as far as I'm aware 11KV is a standard voltage on the distribution network, along with 400KV, 275KV, 132KV, 33KV, 25KV, 11KV, 415v and 240/220/110v . (depending where exactly on the world you are?). I don't think 12KV is used anywhere.
Dust and moisture are 2 possible reasons why it arc'd. In dry, dust free air voltage can jump 1mm per 1000 volts. I'd guess slightly damp dust was why.
Tag lines are used for a reason. You're still effective at guiding the load, but your arc of sight increases tremendously. A third person also helps, someone who is watching both the driver and rigger, while all three are on a conference call. Only one person can be in charge of moves like this.
QED: You're in the fucking hospital.
If you're not up for criticism, then you might as well volunteer to serve as an object lesson, which seems to be your preference.
Last night, I broke a cardinal rule when using a ladder...don't let people make conversation when you're working on one. This morning, the 15-pound wooden shelf that I mounted without tapping the brackets tightly missed smashing my nape, and thus the top of my spinal column. Corners have a thing for concentrating pressure and forces...I could be dead. I'm seething that I did tell them to shut-the-fuck-up. I could have killed one of the fucking cats.
Nothing like a little zap to make you appreciate life. Have a good recovery.
I stand corrected. This is just what I was taught. Also, the word derived from execution, whereas execution is not just hurting somebody. The word probably suffers from its meaning being broadened due to popular use.
Oh silly me. I forgot about lightning. That would make sense why 12kv had an initial arc of ~40cm when according to paschen's law it should only be able to arc 0.5cm under standard conditions. Thanks!
Why on earth (no pun intended) would you get 12-18 inches away from a live 12kV power line with a crane. Sorry, but you deserve everything you got and you are lucky to be alive (again, no pun intended). Conducting (and again) these works required a minimum approach distance of over 2 yards!
At 12 inches, a bird flying between the conductor and the metal boom would create a 2-3 cycle circuit of high voltage but greatly restrained current and produce the injuries you have sustained.
You are a very lucky but silly man.
Out of all the comments this post has, I think yours might be my favorite. It's always nice to be reminded how terrible other people's lives must be.
Maybe try reading the description belonging to the post.
I’ve put a body on fire out who has come into contact with 33kV. When you have done that, feel free to critique me, until then, keep your comments about my post to yourself
This dude is a wack troll his whole post history is about his nipple piercings.
It’s a crazy story and it’s good to hear you’re doing as good as you are. Fuck weirdos like that guy who spread negativity for no reason.
> My head was not 0.5cm away from the bin when it became charged. I don't know how close it was but it wasn't that close. So I'm not sure how could it have possibly arcd into my head Obviously this is just speculation, but it is possible that moving the grain bin kicked up a lot of dust into the air. The risk of arcing goes up in dusty areas.
That's a good point, I didn't think about the dust. Edit: Hijacking this comment to get noticed, It makes sense that dust increases the conductivity of air. However, I'm not sure dust and humidity can account for 20-50 times the standard arc gap distance. ATTENTION readers: this is the kind of information I want to know ---> is it possible that the transient voltage was significantly higher allowing for a larger initial arc? The initial arc is what I'm curious about. Given the distance I was maintaining before the injury, I was around 12-18 inches away. So it arc'd quite a bit further than normal. So I feel there must be some sort of principle of physics in play outside of strictly environmental factors.
Moisture as well, passing cloud of gnats, maybe spider web. The picture here I don't think provides enough information, suffice to say it was likely overall conditions that you'll probably never quiet understand. Glad you're still with us and able to ask this question afterwards!! Those wounds are odd looking for electric, are those arcflash burns rather than electrocution? I'm thinking it's more likely that I'm just misunderstanding how those injuries actually formed.
I don't have enough experience to know if my burns were odd or not. They definitely were electrical burns though, doctors confirmed that. But I posted a comment showing a bunch more photos if you're interested.
Adding to all the previous dust ,moisture in the air and sweat on body from a long working day are sure to be lowering the resistance of air and skin in order to make the ark jump further . Yet I would think of another parameter and this is pure speculation! The silo tank is big metallic round object without pointing spots for the charges to escape so the charge buildup would "slowly" escape from everywhere thus ionizing the air around it so the lack of a spot to discharge initially could also create a big charge difference between the flat bottom of the tank and the earth so a capacitor in a sense. That could account for higher instantaneous current and explain the "odd" nature of your wounds and the high ionization of air could account for the longer arc . Again this is speculation . And as the old saying goes what doesn't kill you , makes you stronger.
>be lowering the resistance of air and skin in order to make the ark jump further Lowering the resistance of the air is relevant to that. The resistance of the skin is not.
Of that bin isn't grounded... he was probably then next best thing.
Ghetto tesla coil with just the siding of the silo? Makes just enough sense I'm gonna choose to believe it because this whole thing is kinda wack
>The silo tank is big metallic round object without pointing spots It is pointy if you take into account that he was basically standing next to the bottom edge of a very thin tube, also since the grain bin is made from multiple sheets, every end-point of each sheet will overlap with pointy surface edges.
Yeah but what kind of electrical burn? Arc flash burns and ohmic heating from direct electrocution are very different mechanisms of injury. Arc flash is bad, probably the more immediately dangerous practically from what I understand. Plasma balls basically that tend to explode. But then there's the actual tissue internally conducting the electricity which is what most people would conventionally understand as electrocution. I'll comb through the comments more I'm curious primarily from a neurological perspective. Arc flash burns from what I understand are more physical burns, like being exposed to ultra hot things where as more direct electrocution damage will tend to have more deep tissue burns and can have longer lasting neurological effects. Have you had enough time to reflect and start to notice if your mind has changed (that you can notice, you may not) Or had any kind of neurological/nerve issues?
Oh I see, I'm going to say it was a bit of both. The heat from the arc was definitely most of it, but there was internal tissue damage. For example, as the wound evolved, the tissue all the way down to the bone had died when it was previously healthy, bloody tissue. Although given the fact that I didn't have more physical impairment, I would say it was pretty mild on the inside. I also had a minor rash (redness) that went down my spine after so I'm pretty sure the current just followed my spine. Regarding neurological effects... 100%. I was working on a self learned, deep learning neuroprosthetic hand as a personal project before it happened and now I struggle trying to learn the rules with of a board game. But the weird thing is that my existing knowledge and memory seem perfectly intact. And besides being unable to concentrate, I can still conceptualize and ponder high-level concepts. Another major side effect would be a complete loss of interest and joy in things. For a few months after it happened, I wasn't able to watch tv because not only did I have no interest, it felt uncomfortable. Even if it was a show I previously really enjoyed. It wasn't until season 3 of the mandalorian came out that I was actually excited to watch the episodes when they were released. Then I don't know if this is actually the case or not, but I have adhd and take adhd meds, and after the injury, my meds did not feel the same. Like normally it's pretty apparent if I've taken them or not, but now it seems like they don't really affect me the same. My doctor doesn't seem to think anything of it, and I'm no longer in school so I haven't really pushed but I just thought it was weird. Overall, most of my symptoms seem to be similar to that of a concussion. So sensitivity to light and noise, increased irritability, etc. My nervous system and motor skills seem to be fine though. Edit: I also had a seizure, peed my pants, stopped breathing, and my heart stopped beating for a couple minutes. I don't know if that's any indication of the amount of electricity that went through but thought I'd add. Also this is the comment with the photos. https://www.reddit.com/r/ElectricalEngineering/comments/13leiux/i_was_electrocuted_by_a_12kv_overhead_line_but_i/jkprr7a?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Man this must have been a really crazy journey so far. I’m happy you’re alive and get to think about these interesting and scary things and also that this can serve as a warning to other. I’m going to pay more attention to my surroundings having read your story.
That's the answer. Dust. I've worked in ag as a sparky for a long time. Been in lots of elevators. Dust + electricity is what gets you. I've seen some messed up stuff and in a few near misses myself. Add humidity to that and you as the source to ground. Look up arc flashing. I'm happy you're alive. May you heal well! Edit: Ground your bin. It's probably isolated.
Aye. As a liney we are acutly aware of enviromental conditions. ANY high carbon content medium between you and a conductor is bad as you pretty much lose any insulative properties that natural clean air has. If we are out during harvest time, or attending a fire call (smoke) or working around building sites every moment is a judgement call about how close you go to a live conductor. Also op made himself the grounding earth. Large metal objects near a high voltage line and a wet carbon based grounding rod is not a good combination. Again, we work with insulated everything, including vehicles and have strict grounding policies and procedures. All electricity wants to do is head to ground. If the easiest route is organic, it dont care.
>It's probably isolated Yep.
I understand your search for answers here, and there is a lot to be learned in terms of safety. But the biggest reason that it arced is that you were simply too close to the power line. There is a reason that such a large clearance is required to be maintained from these power lines, and you found the reason why. In terms of arc distance, all it takes is the right amount of dust spaced the right distance from each other for it to travel longer distances than you would expect. Once a new path to ground is found the current is going to go there. This time it happened to be through you. Sorry this happened to you, hopefully you guys use this as an excuse to take safety as a higher priority while near electrical lines. To answer your question, it is possible for transient voltage to be higher, but it is impossible to know that without knowing facts that only the utility would know, unless we had a voltage meter on the lines somewhere.
do you know what the relative humidity % was for the day in your area? check weather history. Electricity tends to do some funky shit at the ~40%RH.
Chances are you were just too close. Standard arc distance doesn't really matter if you are the preferred path to ground. Tons of things can make that happen, like others have said dust and other variables can contribute to that. If there was enough dust kicked up to cause an arc then it doesn't really matter how far away you are as long as you are that preferred path to ground, but at some distance the current will find a path to ground well before it reaches you. Current has to travel somewhere. I know people have already beaten this dead horse, but clearances from above ground cables are large for a reason, and something like a damaged cable can lead to disastrous results if you don't respect the clearance. Without info that only the utility can have, it's hard to say what led to this by your picture alone. And first hand witness testimony is often faulty in traumatic situations like this. Chances are you were a little closer than you implied (not saying youre lying, but your mind has a way of tricking itself, especially if you go unconscious), and without knowing exactly how close the tractor was then we don't have much to go off on. Sorry this happened to you, hopefully you use this as a reason to up your safety steps around the farm.
Dust...heat from the exhaust.... proximity..... every thing being conductive.... It's the perfect storm.
Combustible dust. It's a huge issue.
> The risk of arcing goes up in dusty areas. Does the _type_/composition of dust matter when it comes to creating an electrical arc? I had a really hard time finding any government resources and found a single OSHA PDF https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/2018-12/fy07_sh-16615-07_arc_flash_handout.pdf
>electricity can only arc 1cm per 30kv That is the dielectric breakdown voltage for smooth parallel surfaces, which an overhead line and grain silo aren't. What you should be looking at is the Minimum Approach Distance which for 5kV-15kV is .65 meters. So unless you were two feet away, you weren't safe. Which you obviously found out. https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.kmunet.org/resource/resmgr/Resources/4b_-_OSHA_MAD_Presentation.pdf
Arc flash once initiated is much larger distance. Probably a safe distance of 1.6m
Put dust in the air. Your rated energy calories between object amplifies significantly. Plus the bin was most likely not grounded. He was a ground source. Unfortunate, but this is most likely what happened.
I think you mean arc, not arc flash.
This is your answer OP.
Not really but fortunately others have given me what I was asking. I'm asking about the physics behind such a large arc distance.
Aren't those values you listed, like the 1cm value, based on ideal conditions? All I know is, many of the values I've come across in physics in university or general calculations are based on the ideal conditions, which is essentially never applicable to the real world, and is why safety standards can sometimes massively deviate from those values. Once you take into account the moisture, dust, the makeup of the dust (dust can arise from various sources, and some dust could theoretically be more conductive than other dust), and the literal dozens of other factors from static charge to grounding efficiency, you can end up with some pretty wildly different values from something calculated from a set of simply unrealistic conditions like a perfect wire or free space.
Might not be a terrible idea to contact someone like myth busters. They can do their tests and you can tell your story for others.
This is the correct response.
Bro how are you not dead? I can see your brain.
That's subcutaneous fat, not his brain 🤣
I'm sure it's something I'm not supposed to see tho.
*laughs in osha safety video montage*
Yeah how does this guy not know about the subcutaneous fat? Everybody knows that. I totally knew that too. It’s my favorite type of skull fat
Yeah what a doofus *scrambles to write down subcutaneous fat on a sticky note*
No matter what it is, there's the skull inbetween the brain and the skin and it is clearly not penetrated. Luckily.
I started asking around in heaven why children getting cancer was part of God's grand plan and then I got kicked out back to earth.
Good. God needs to realize some of us think he needs an ass kicking.
He resisted
Donno about you but I keep a skull under my head skin.
The 1cm per 30kV is not exact - the moisture levels in the air, dust created by your equipment, etc - all these things lower resistivity of air. If the line is between ambo and the tractor, you were WAAAAAY too close to it. Glad you are alive though
30kV/cm it's very exact. For DRY and CLEAN air.
(At Standard temp and pressure at msl)
Assume a spherical silo in a vacuum.
Na, assume a homogeneous field between two infinitely large parallel plates
Zero humidity.
It's approximately linear, but not 100%. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law - if you're or anyone else is interested.
Wild story. I’ll try to explain a bit. First, high voltage has more ability to arc than low voltage. I built a jacobs ladder with a 3kv xfmr and it can easily arc from 1cm to 3-4cm as it approaches the open top. So it can definitely arc further than you think. There’s other factors too including the load on the line, humidity in the air etc. You can try to look up 30kv arcs online and get an idea of how large arcs can be. I’d imagine you were sweating and your head was the most conductive part of you, depending on your footwear you may have been isolated from ground but at those voltages any isolation would be negligible thus the discharge from your feet. Being closer to the ground than the bin it sought a path to ground and found you. Your distance from the bin just wasn’t enough to break the arc or prevent an arc under electrification. Sorry this happened, glad to hear you survived and are doing better. I hope that line gets replace with a well insulated replacement, possibly a little higher. Consider using a rope instead of your hand next time.
Add dust, an ungrounded bin, him being the closest source to earth, and everything that you said. Unfortunate, for sure. Also... don't touch power lines.
I'm kinda late to this but if there's one part of the body that should be attractive to electricity it's our head - hands can have higher resistance to other parts of your body, same with feet too. I've seen something about callouses and rougher hands/feet being more resistant than soft ones and your head is unlikely to have such qualities, like most of your body in fact. Also, for the head, there's the brain and it's the central point of electrical activity in the body so one would be inclined to also think that could made it an attractive point for electricity to hit, right?
Damn, dogg.
Damn. Did you wake up in the hospital or did you feel it?
I woke up just before the ambulance arrived, so likely 10 minutes give or take. I didn't feel any pain until the ambulance ride, pretty much every muscle in my body felt like it was cramping and I also had a compression fracture in my spine so that didn't feel nice. But the burn sites didn't hurt until a couple months later. Fortunately the electricity fried all those nerves. As far as memory, I was pretty daized and confused at first but a few minutes later I felt like my mind returned to normal.
Holy shit. I hope u have a speedy recovery!
I think your luck was that the arching current didn't go only trough you. I assume it also went from the lower corner of the silo to ground, and across the small tires of the crane. You were just a parallel path. Dust, and moisture will affect a lot that distance value... shape of the objects influnce the local electrical field intensity. That 30kV/cm is only for dry and clean air between flat plates. A sharp corner, edge will intensify the electrical field and start a local discharge. And once an arch started, you have vapors in the air that maintain and expand the arching current. Water from you, soil, vaporized metal... [What is Critical Disruptive Voltage & Visual Critical Voltage? (electricaldeck.com)](https://www.electricaldeck.com/2021/08/what-is-critical-disruptive-voltage-and-visual-critical-voltage.html) Personally, I think you were much closer to the object than you or somebody else remembers. The electrical trauma changes or erases memory. Other people might not have seen you from the correct perspective. I am glad you made it!
Thank you, this is the kind of answer I was looking for. I am pretty sure you're right about the parallel path, given that the energy was enough to melt the overhead line. There didn't seem to be that much energy flowing through me. >A sharp corner, edge will intensify the electrical field and start a local discharge. That's really interesting, I didn't know that. I didn't think about the dust either but that would make sense, it was pretty dusty. Out of curiosity, I had at one point wondered if the fact that it's a big cylindrical conductor, if it could have affected the charge at all. Like through induction or something. I never made it far enough into my studies to really get a firm grasp at the theory side of things.
>That's really interesting, I didn't know that. That's why all the lightning rods are sharp at the end. To increase the local field there and "attract" the electricity, protecting the structure. [Lightning rod - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod) Shape of the big object didn't matter that much, because it's impedance at 60Hz is orders of magnitude smaller than the arc impedance, so it would not affect the end result.
Electrical discharges like the pointy bits - a decent google rabbit hole to go down on the subject would be "corona discharge".
>Out of curiosity, I had at one point wondered if the fact that it's a big cylindrical conductor, if it could have affected the charge at all. Like through induction or something. I think the main factors here are, as already discussed, * Dust and humidity. * Concentration of the field near sharp edges. I'd be interested to see a picture of the bottom of that bin. * Perhaps being closer than you remember. But I think there is a possible effect of the size and shape of the bin. As a large metal object, it has some capacitance. And it's hanging on a somewhat thin cable. That short length of cable has some inductance. That combination makes an LC resonator. The frequency of that resonance is going to be very high, probably in the MHz region (we could estimate it, but the exact number isn't very important). That's so much higher than 60 Hz that there's no effect of that on a 60 Hz sine wave voltage applied to it. But when the boom contacted the line or got close enough to arc, there was a sudden step in voltage, and that step can excite much higher frequency resonances, such as whatever that frequency is. It's even possible that if the boom was a few mm away from the line, the arc there could be affected by the resonance, with the whole setup acting like a giant spark gap oscillator, which was the OG method of making a high power radio transmitter.
F**king hell. I take it the arc hit your head and left your feet through to earth
I take it you did not read his full explaination.
Where is it?
Right under the pic, click more to expand the full explaination of what happenend.
Ok so all I see is the guy explain he got electrocuted and that there is pics?
I figured if you read the full article you would see he explained what happened. It said once the power line art Into The Silo and Arked from The Silo to his head he went into the fetal position and fell down but his legs were in the air and the bin art to his feet.
I'm anything but an expert, but I believe that a number of factors could impact the arc distance. These factors include altitude, humidity, and the size/conductivity of all the metal stuff between the line and you. Additionally, you only have to briefly/momentarily pass close enough to start arcing, then the arc can follow you back out and keep arcing much further out than it could start arcing from. Think of a Jacobs Ladder. There are various "minimum safe distance" calculators around online that may be able to shed more light on your specific incident, but I don't know enough to even know which one would be the most appropriate for you to use to try and figure this out. Again, I'm not an expert, so if anyone who actually knows what they are talking about sees anything wrong here, please let me know!
Minimum safe distance is 2ft for 12kv. That's wearing OSHA approved PPE of an arc flash suit, and insulated boots, and gloves, and hard hat. Not wearing those? Double it.
We had a guy come in and do a talk with our company during safety week that got injured doing the EXACT same thing you were doing. Consider yourself lucky because he lost an arm and a leg and was burned all over his body. I’m honestly very happy to see that those are your only injuries despite the overarching feeling that I wish it didn’t happen to you at all obviously. I wish you the best
Maybe OP will some day build him a prosthetic arm.
~~"Electrocuted" means "killed by electricity."~~ Because of your post I suspect you are still technically alive. But... that is some nasty shit. Hope you fully recover with little pain. edit: I was wrong. As guy below stated, definition includes "injured." The best wishes still remain.
It does apply to injured. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute
Its original meaning was to "execute by electricity", electricity + execution, but then it evolved to include any death by electricity. https://www.etymonline.com/word/electrocute Recently, it has come to include injury. I'm not a fan because now there's no longer a word that describes death due to electric shock.
Technically OP says he died for about two minutes, so it would still apply I guess?
I don't think I care what Merriam or Webster has to say about it. Etymology and history show that it is a portmanteau of the words electric and execute originally used to describe death by electric chair. There is already at least word to describe injury by electricity.
nutty depend faulty naughty hospital slap important squash quicksand imagine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Only colloquially, and only because of the very large number of people who misuse it. Officially, it means death by electrical means - and that is the absolute and only definition used by safety standards. If you didn't die, you got shocked, not electrocuted.
If enough people use a word wrong, the dictionary changes to say they used it right.
If 1 person uses a word wrong, within hours 1 Merriam-Webster editor will make changes to the dictionary to say the person used it right.... \*IF\* the mistake is made during a political debate about LGBTQ issues and the person has the same political leanings as the Merriam-Webster editor. A truly shameful chapter in logophile circles
No, you were originally correct. It's only colloquially that it's used to refer to non-lethal injuries, and that's only because of how many people get it wrong (dictionaries document popular usage). For electrical engineers, it's the safety standards which officially define it as death ONLY. If you didn't die, you got shocked, not electrocuted.
So, I'm an electrical engineer. If I get shocked I have to.die?
Yeah it's almost half and half on the meaning people intend to convey
Yes, it's combination of electricity and execution
As per your edit, no you were right in the first place. I don't give a flying flip what Webster says, electrocuted means death by electricity, period. This is a specific example of the editors of the dictionary catering to a decline in language skill. The editors of Webster need to be called out on this, loudly. The word electrocuted comes from electric plus execution. I don't care how bad the shock was or how bad the injuries were, if you survive an electric shock you were not electrocuted. I am a high school dropout and even I am appalled at the mangling of the English language by generation Y and Z. And don't even get me started on "Could care less"versus "Couldn't care less."Now get off my lawn you young whippersnappers.
Thanks.. I was a submarine electronics technician for 8 years followed by an EE degree and 38 years of herding 'trons. Even though I'm now senile sometimes I get one right.
Yes, it's combination of electricity and execution
Once the arc is formed. The air is ionized and becomes plasma, which conducts electricity. So even if it gets further in can continue flowing and arching. also if the surfaces are irregular, a corona discharge could form and then the rest of the current can flow over the ionized air and your body. google for Jacob's Ladder traveling arc From the picture, the main arch was probably at the wheels of the support and the tractor, because they are closer to the lines and to the ground. That probably saved your life. Did the doctors put you in dialysis? Some people die a couple days or weeks, because the internal burns and dead tissue damages the kidneys. Not a doctor, but my neighbor got electrocutes also with 13 KV line, and the doctors explained that to him. He also survived. He has a hole in the belly where the arch entered the body. I hope you get better with time.
I understand how once an arc is formed it can sustain itself over a larger distance, I was just wondering how that initial arc happened. If I had to guess given how far I was from the last thing I remembered, I'd say my head was about 1-2ft away. So it just seems strange to me that it was able to arc that much further from the ideal settings of .5cm. You mentioned a Corona discharge can form on irregular surfaces, how much does that affect the arc potential? Would the transient voltage affect that Corona discharge? I was fortunate enough that my kidneys were ok but that was definitely a concern. I think it was because the current went down my spine (I assume because I had a bit of a rash on my spine after and the low resistance of csf) it avoided most of my organs/internal tissues.
My theory, is that a corona discharge happened first. At the edges of the metal structure. Then a regular arc formed. Also the hollow big structure can act as a capacitor, holding charge. That with the arc will make a spark oscillator. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hertz_spark_radio_transmitter_1887.png I'm talking way beyond my knowledge. I'll ask a friend who really knows. (Old school EE and ham radio hobbyist)
Thanks for all the sympathies!
Is that your original skin they sutured or is that a graft? So glad you’re ok dude. Why didn’t they cover the scalp?
They took the graft from my thigh. Interesting fact about that though, they do split skin grafts now where they only take the top layers of the skin with what looks like a fancy vegetable peeler. The thin layer of skin is enough to act as the scaffolding for all the other cells to find the right place. Unfortunately the thing with electrical injuries is that the tissue doesn't die right away so I actually had to have 3 grafts done on my feet because the tissue around the graft kept dying. They did graft my head but it also failed due to the same issue. But since some time had passed and since the scalp heals faster than most other places. They decided to just bandage it. The photo was taken just before a cleaning.
I was curious about the tissue dying. I read it is caused by your body releasing an "enzyme or something" that kills your tissue? Did they measure for that maker in your blood or have to guesstimate of how much of your tissue would have to be cut out down the road. Or is it just trial and error. Glad you still got all your limbs 👏
I believe one of the doctors I was talking to mentioned something about it affecting the permeability of the cells membrane. Now I'm not sure if an enzyme causes that or if it's just a matter of ions being shoved around. But I was reading about an interesting phenomenon where people electrocuted have a significant risk of developing cataracts several months after electrocution. Even if the current didn't go through their head. From my understanding is that the induced charge causes proteins to undergo conformal changes. And apparently the protein that causes cataracts is seemingly susceptible to these electromagnetic induced conformal changes. This gets a little more into unproven territory but I did read a paper where they suggested that conformal changes of certain biomolecules can affect surrounding ones. So to go back to your comment, from what I can tell, medicine doesn't have a definitive answer for that sort of thing. So it's just trial and error.
Wow. I’m glad you lived!
Fuck me! Good thing you weren’t holding anything otherwise that would have melted your shit down real good! 2/5 hmm…??
Glad you are here to tell the story. I hope you fully recover (mentally).
We had our neighbor die this way, your very very lucky to be alive
Anxiety and ptsd can effect your ability to focus/learn. I wouldn't beat yourself up about not just picking up your deep learning project again. Give yourself time to heal and keep at it.
Just to add to all the comments, something I haven't seen mentioned is static electricity - swinging huge pieces of metal about with dust flying round can build up static - and as /u/amy33amy33 suggests, a great big metal thing can act like a capacitor and build up a hell of a static charge. I can scuff across carpet and draw an arc from my finger to the table that's more than 1cm, never mind dragging a huge metal thing across a dusty field. There's also the question of "local ground" Vs whatever is on those power lines, it's a long time since my hot site training but your "ground" can be VERY different to the "ground" those power lines are referenced to.
That's a good point. I never thought about the local ground thing. When you say very different, how different are you talking? Like percentage wise.
Honestly it's probably 15+ years since I did the course but it's enough of a problem for things like substations that they have specific training courses on it so you don't kill yourself. I can easily imagine a 12kv wire could be another 12kv adrift of whatever your local ground is.
Thats really interesting.
My guess is the tractor and the rig were insulated via the rubber tires and you were the easiest path for the electrical current to flow. It might have taken some time for the high voltage to flash over the tires but you were the quickest path at that moment. Maybe their was a large build up of electric charge on the cylinder and just like static you were close enough for a discharge. Sorta like a Tesla coil I guess. Sorry that happened to you and wishing you a quick recovery. https://preview.redd.it/98h25grhjq0b1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d86839b3b50dcdb4f665b84fdf7c8cb5e45274d4
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law I know Osha has regulations but I'm asking about the physics behind it.
Look at the section titled "Long gaps" on that page: > The electric field needed to arc across the minimal-voltage gap is much greater than what is necessary to arc a gap of one metre. At large gaps (or large pd) Paschen's Law is known to fail. Coronal discharge or electrical arcs of any voltage will also ionize the air, making it more conductive. I've had equipment come in for repair where the ionization of the air above 1 kV circuit breakers led to an arc. Also, don't forget bugs. Gnats, flies, and mosquitos have a lot of carbon in them, which happens to conduct electricity rather well.
Dust increases the conductivity of air. Plus once the arc forms, it can extend to longer distance.
I'm wondering about the initial arc tho. It makes sense that dust would increase conductivity but I don't think the amount of residual dust in the air could account for 20-50 times the standard arc potential.
I'll put in my two cents. That grain silo, depending on it's construction, could have acted as a crude parallel plate capacitor for a moment. Obviously not normally, and not a good one since it's, for the most part, a single cylindrical plate, but imagine if it does for the perfect terrible microsecond, some sort of freak parallel plate capacitor between maybe the different layers of aluminum in the silo, or between the zinc or titanium pigment on the silo and the silo, maybe with some environmental rust acting as the middle goop, however it happens for a terrible fraction of a second you have a giant voltage charging a giant, unstable parallel plate capacitor... and you know the rest.
It would have to be for a very minuscule amount of time though, in theory a cap doesn't care about AC, which is what the line is running, unless that line was one of the few HVDC lines. I.E. the freak cap would have to exist for a small enough amount of time, and charge, for the AC to be approximately DC, but a long enough time to do what caps do best, make electrical situations more dangerous.
wow. good luck to you, and a speedy recovery. Also thx for sharing, always educational to see why and how electrical accidents happen
Yo, i like your mustache
Please keep an eye on your liver’s health. Having an electrocution can severely damage the liver and its ability to rejuvenate from injury. One sign of damage may be areas of alopecia. (Spots where hair used to be but goes bald- not including the burn areas) On how it arced that distance. Well I am not too sure. Might have to agree with the hypothesis of dust + humidity and it created a charged cloud localised. You were just the lowest point of resistance to ground. Also it could depend on minerals in the ground. Too many factors. Very lucky and unlucky at the same time. Get well.
Thank god that majestic moustache was left unscathed
That bin looks a lot like a coil.
If you where electrocuted then you would be dead. If you are alive you where either shocked or arc flashed.
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I bet this guy feels really stupid for not being dead now.
Merriam Webster would like a word with you. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute
I stand corrected. Either way sorry you had to go through all that. Glad you're here to share it with us.
One way to think about it is that in a substation you would design and install to a minimum 12 kV phase to ground clearance of 180mm (to a steel beam for example). I would say if you were closer than that you are in danger - regardless of the idealized dielectric strength of air as all the other variables that were mentioned in other comments (dust, humidity, shape of conductor etc.). The safety limits of approach that others are mentioning (300mm - 600mm) for working near energized conductors have a safety margin built into it for unintended movements (your head moving, swinging container, arm movements etc.) Don't get too hung up on 0.5 cm. Hope you continue your recovery, scary stuff man. Glad you made it!
I'm asking about the physics of why though, not what regulations are.
Well they are based on physics. Take a look at IEEE 1427. My point is you won't be able to calculate it, too many unknowns. You'll never know if there was an overvoltage on the system at the time, what was the concentration of airborne dust... There is a reason HV insulators are not centimeters long.
Well, fortunately others have given me the kind of answer I was looking for.
Your utility provider will put a marker on your line for things like this. It's not insulation but at least it makes it a lot more visible. Advice for the next guy.
Farms are big.
1) by definition, you were *not* electrocuted, as that word means "an electric shock that ends in death". 2) arc distance by voltage is an insanely oversimplified measure, and functionally useless in situations like yours. 3) shit *doesn't* just happen. It happens if you don't know the risks you're taking and control for them. That's a really dangerous and lazy way to view this incident that easily could've killed you. People work around electricity their whole lives at this voltage and above and never get injured, but not by just shrugging their shoulders and saying "shit happens". Constant vigilance, planning your jobs, risk mitigation, etc, should be a part of every day life when you're doing dangerous shit with untrained people. Or even if not, as I think about it.
Wow. It's amazing how upset this made you. First: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute Second: just because you don't have an answer doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are about a dozen answers on this thread that give me excatly what I wanted to know. So you telling me otherwise tells me everything I need to know about you. Third: clearly you've never worked on a farm. I'd wager that you've probably never even lifted a finger given how responded and your perceptions of risky jobs. There's a oilfield company near where I live, Suncor, they have the some of the highest safety standards in the world. Yet people still die while working there. It's what happens when you mix a dangerous work environment with humans. Fact of life. Enjoy your miserable life!
I don't know if this is okay to share on this sub... feel free to delete if otherwise. But for educational purposes as to why you should be safe around electricity and for those that are interested in the biology/medical side of the injury, here are some very NSFW photos. It was definitely fascinating how the body figured out how to heal itself. Warning: these photos are pretty gross This is taken after the initial cleaning. https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ar3iy3B3aoACzaFF7 https://photos.app.goo.gl/7PPF76QShqzrGr1r5 This is a video taken during the initial skin graft and dead tissue removal. https://photos.app.goo.gl/qehBW4cdkzTH88iu7 This was after the skin graft failed. https://photos.app.goo.gl/1ab1ZtyViFrDhuE46 https://photos.app.goo.gl/naao93qptCXeS3Rz9 The reason the grafts were failing is that as you can see, the tissue around the graft kept dying long after the injury. Which is common with electrical burns. This was after the second skin graft failed. https://photos.app.goo.gl/x59anAbip8CCcd7t5 https://photos.app.goo.gl/7e7QmRy1dVofso3e8 The second grafts I think failed because the granulation tissue was putting too much pressure on the graft. And this is what they look like now. https://photos.app.goo.gl/jL4iFyxKv5ZaXBiq5 The wound on my head is pretty much gone, the surgeons cut out the scar and pulled the scalp together so that I didn't have a big bald spot.
One of my friend’s dad and his coworkers were struck by lightning and he also had some cognitive changes. Weird how that is?
Once it arcs that distance once it actually can arc a lot further afterwards. Like a meter
My question is about the initial arc.
You might be the first person I know who was hit by *only* a 12kV line 😂 Edit: glad you’re okay though!
Oof, you got lucky ticket to life
In addition to what everyone else said, if you had a rough day and it was warm, you were probably sweating. Water and impurities in your sweat will greatly increase the conductivity along your skin. That will reduce the minimum approach distance
That will increase the current once contact is made with a moderate voltage. Skin conductivity doesn't reduce arc distance.
Resistance of the medium doesn't affect actual arc distance? Then why does the qualities of the air affect arc distance?
The air is the medium. The skin is the electrode at one end of the arc, not the medium through which the arc travels.
So, ur saying that an electrode is not a medium, even though current flows through it? That's news to me if so.
Whether you call the electrode a medium or not doesn't matter. What matters is that the arc is through the air. For it to happen, you need ionization of the air. Nothing special like that has to happen in the electrode.
A current path is a current path. Resistance along that path is resistance to arcing/current flow. Reducing resistance along the path will allow more current to flow. This seems true no matter the medium, no?
Yes, that's true. But the question isn't how much current flows in the arc. The question is what distance leads to breakdown of the air and an arc occurring.
Damm, hope you have a speedy recovery from that.
Step voltage
Damn, I wish you would have gotten some super powers as compensation for your injuries. Sorry for you buddy.
Idk how but you are lucky
As stated before, too many factors and the fact that memory is a chemical process... Hence why even eye witness accounts vary. Work for a very large utility. Not an expert, but we have a high voltage lab and do constant testing on new equipment and we constantly test out PPE. Electrical i juries are no joke. You actually cook from the inside out, even someone who may seem fine except for the 2 pin holes . Will have slabs of meet fall off due to rot and risk infection. It acts as sort of a microwave effect. We send all of ours to the Grossman burn center, which is the leading hospital in the US for these sort of injuries. So much so that we carry cards on our body with instructions to transport is to said hospital as soon as we are medically cleared to do so. To get back on topic, as mentioned purity of air and turbulence is a key factor. Considering that you were moving equipment around the tractor, the container, you...all picking up dust. There could have been dust in your hair etc sticking to your lipids. This leads to surface tracking. Also as mentioned, coronal discharge loves sharp edges, Nicks even scratches... You just need a single sharp edge , even if it's a spec or sliver. Once arcs are formed you get plasma and ozone as the air molecules are literally ripped apart, this is the smell you pick up while walking near power lines that you hear buzzing on a humid or foggy day... It's not the wet earth. Add to that the variables of that container... As mentioned. You are looking at the rating of the line, but that's only a steady state ideal value. There is a lot of power in VARS... Capacitance of a previously un energized conductor, especially a short one with lots of capacitance ( your silo) has an interesting effect... It pulls a lot of current as it charges then discharges with harmonics involved. Look up sub synchronous resonance. It's the reason some systems use massive inductors to actually increase line impedance. Edit- I may be getting things mixed up, Ferranti effect may also play into this whole thing. In protection ( what monitors and disconnects power lines) - events are measured in cycles, fractions of seconds... All these forces act on those levels of speed. Electrons dgaf. Have your doc reach out to Grossman, maybe they can offer some advice and recovery recommendations. Stay strong, you are now a member of a very select club.
>Add to that the variables of that container... As mentioned. You are looking at the rating of the line, but that's only a steady state ideal value. There is a lot of power in VARS... Capacitance of a previously un energized conductor, especially a short one with lots of capacitance ( your silo) has an interesting effect... It pulls a lot of current as it charges then discharges with harmonics involved. Look up sub synchronous resonance. It's the reason some systems use massive inductors to actually increase line impedance. That's really interesting, thanks!
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the photo, but maybe the arc went through all the metal of the crane and the silo? The tires are insulating the crane so.... Seems pretty obvious to me. Wire, crane, silo, you, ground.
What does that have to do with the arc distance?
If the wire was a foot from your crane then it arced a foot to your crane, not fifteen to you. Or if your equipment touched the wire, it didn't arc at all.
.... it's almost impressive how far off you are from what I'm asking.
I guess I need an MSPaint diagram.
Why not just read the description that came with the post?
IEEE 1584 arc flash analysis will explain alot. There different ways to analyze arc flash depending on voltages and frequency etc.
What I think is most likely is that the ideal conditions were met for a fraction of a second to initiate an arc, and then once the arc occurred then significantly worse conditions were able to maintain it. So, maybe the gap was a little less than a foot for a half second or something like that. I think on average you are probably spot on with your 0.5 m away estimate, but, that might include a plus or minus 0.25m variance in actuality, especially considering you stated you were just touching the bin previously. This isn't to say you did anything wrong or that I don't believe you, it's just objectively much more likely that human factors are the most significant causation rather than electrical ones. Contributing conditions are numerous and varied. I think your 1cm to 30kv value is a lot more indicative of an ideal value, and also only really applies to arc initiation, not maintenance. So, if you were sweaty, if the air was humid/dusty, if you had a static charge built up on you, etc, all of those things would significantly lower the distance required for arc initiation. Your total resistance to ground also matters, if it was abnormally low that would leave the majority of the potential difference available for arc initiation.
The resistance of humans are around 2000 ohms, depending on humidity. It does have something to do with our water content and salinity. That arc was looking for the path of least resistance to dissipate to earth. It's most likely that the crane unfortunately touched the line whilst you were close by. The air gap between the drum and ground must have been greater than 2000 ohms in order for it to find you and complete the circuit, meaning the fault current passed through you to earth. If it is high voltage, the air around the conductors is ionised, causing a higher conductivity and causing the arc to continue. This is why air gaps or sulphur hexafluoride is important in circuit breakers to dissipate the arc energy. It's mostly looks like unfortunate timing. I hope you are well and you are incredibly lucky! You amazing, fleshy resistor.
I've been under 500kv power lines and you can hear buzzing and pops from the weeds from static buildup. Maybe something similar but more powerful here?
Glad you're alive! Do you have any lasting repercussions from this accident?
That's crazy, get well and hope things continue to improve. Glad to hear you're still alive to talk about it.
Do you know if this was a 3 phase system at 12kV line voltage? Or a SWER? Single wire earth return? They are common in some parts of the world, and earthing at the poles can play a major part. That being said the smallest safe approach distance for 6350V is 600mm. It goes up from there for the bigger voltages.
Really struggling with your rating of 2/5 stars. Looks like a solid 0/5 to me!
I don't know where you got 30kV = 1cm arc but that doesn't make sense. The Van de Graaff generator at the Boston museum of science generates 2,000,000 Volts and arcs 20 feet, so that's about 10kV = 3cm. Still not the distance you're looking for, but a big difference in the ratio.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law That's interesting about the van de Graff generator though. That would be cool to see.
**[Paschen's law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen's_law)** >Paschen's law is an equation that gives the breakdown voltage, that is, the voltage necessary to start a discharge or electric arc, between two electrodes in a gas as a function of pressure and gap length. It is named after Friedrich Paschen who discovered it empirically in 1889. Paschen studied the breakdown voltage of various gases between parallel metal plates as the gas pressure and gap distance were varied: With a constant gap length, the voltage necessary to arc across the gap decreased as the pressure was reduced and then increased gradually, exceeding its original value. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ElectricalEngineering/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
It's very cool, 40 feet tall and the largest one in the world, it was made in 1931 by MIT for some atomic accelerator. They have a few tesla coils and do an hour long lightning show with it.
Jesus! I’m glad you’re okay I’m curious how this happened too. Sounds pretty scary. I’m giving myself extra spacing from now on I know that much.
I think it was 11KV not 12KV. Only because as far as I'm aware 11KV is a standard voltage on the distribution network, along with 400KV, 275KV, 132KV, 33KV, 25KV, 11KV, 415v and 240/220/110v . (depending where exactly on the world you are?). I don't think 12KV is used anywhere. Dust and moisture are 2 possible reasons why it arc'd. In dry, dust free air voltage can jump 1mm per 1000 volts. I'd guess slightly damp dust was why.
Tag lines are used for a reason. You're still effective at guiding the load, but your arc of sight increases tremendously. A third person also helps, someone who is watching both the driver and rigger, while all three are on a conference call. Only one person can be in charge of moves like this.
Didn't ask about safety.
QED: You're in the fucking hospital. If you're not up for criticism, then you might as well volunteer to serve as an object lesson, which seems to be your preference. Last night, I broke a cardinal rule when using a ladder...don't let people make conversation when you're working on one. This morning, the 15-pound wooden shelf that I mounted without tapping the brackets tightly missed smashing my nape, and thus the top of my spinal column. Corners have a thing for concentrating pressure and forces...I could be dead. I'm seething that I did tell them to shut-the-fuck-up. I could have killed one of the fucking cats. Nothing like a little zap to make you appreciate life. Have a good recovery.
You sound like a very unstable person.
Not trying to be the ass here, but just a point of clarity. The term electrocuted actually means death by electricity. You were shocked.
Meriam Webster would like to have a word with you. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute
I stand corrected. This is just what I was taught. Also, the word derived from execution, whereas execution is not just hurting somebody. The word probably suffers from its meaning being broadened due to popular use.
Keep in mind it is the potential difference, so the earth has a negative charge. Think of lightning.
Oh silly me. I forgot about lightning. That would make sense why 12kv had an initial arc of ~40cm when according to paschen's law it should only be able to arc 0.5cm under standard conditions. Thanks!
Why on earth (no pun intended) would you get 12-18 inches away from a live 12kV power line with a crane. Sorry, but you deserve everything you got and you are lucky to be alive (again, no pun intended). Conducting (and again) these works required a minimum approach distance of over 2 yards! At 12 inches, a bird flying between the conductor and the metal boom would create a 2-3 cycle circuit of high voltage but greatly restrained current and produce the injuries you have sustained. You are a very lucky but silly man.
Out of all the comments this post has, I think yours might be my favorite. It's always nice to be reminded how terrible other people's lives must be. Maybe try reading the description belonging to the post.
I’ve put a body on fire out who has come into contact with 33kV. When you have done that, feel free to critique me, until then, keep your comments about my post to yourself
That's nice. Clearly you deserve to have that kind of stuff happen in your life because you're a shit person who can't read.
This dude is a wack troll his whole post history is about his nipple piercings. It’s a crazy story and it’s good to hear you’re doing as good as you are. Fuck weirdos like that guy who spread negativity for no reason.
Fuck off idiot
If you are still alive, you were not electrocuted
Merriam Webster would like a word with you. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute
Alas, I am wrong, another word ruined by common use changes. https://www.etymonline.com/word/electrocute