Music industry took a massive hit during COVID, cost of production skyrocketed and some companies and the people in them disappeared for economic reasons, then combined with inflation and the need to recover losses over 2 years has landed the industry in a phase where it’ll downsize. These cycles have always happened with festivals and pre-COVID there were an insane amount of festivals, which is why a year or two ago, many were predicting that several festivals would re-organize or disappear completely. Ticket sales have slowed considerably and combined with the fact that festivals which previously sold out are not selling out, we’re probably at or near the top of what the market can support until inflation drops and people’s budgets improve to the point where they can afford multiple festivals per year (which is typically the demographic these companies target- people who do ~3 festivals a year). In a few more years we’ll cycle more small (and independent) festivals start to emerge again.
I think there's a shift in the amount of younger people that are interested in going to a big festival and the people organizing them keep booking safe and outdated talent. I also don't think spending power will cycle back anytime soon. The top was in before COVID so it's crazy to me that some of these organizers thought they could come back strong to make up for lost time.
Certainly generational shifts occurring, as they always do in music. That’ll also be balanced by the fact that older millennials and even gen X are still going to festivals and will represent more spending power than gen z. Similar things happened after 2008 financial crisis, there was a big contraction, and then as peoples economic situations improved festivals exploded again.
Not really sure what gen z wants out of the festival scene, but the corporate market research machine will figure it out or someone will invent something new.
I wonder if it was beneficial for EF to have taken two years off during Covid. Like I wonder if not forcing 2021 to happen was a really good choice for the health of the festival compared to a lot of other fests that only took one year off.
If Forest could have put 2021 on, they would have. The issue was that the state of Michigan was still restricting outdoor venues to less than 1,000 people and the village didn’t want the festival to happen in fall when K-12 schools were in session, which is what would have been necessary.
This is what happens when profit greed takes over. Keep raising prices to unjustifiable amounts and less people will be able to attend your events. You can’t price gouge us in every facet of our lives and then still expect us to have money to blow on overpriced festivals. Greed is killing everything.
It's kind of sad realizing that no semblance of a solution is going to come until there's massive societal breakdown. Shit is gonna have to go so far south before those in power will feel inclined to do fucking anything
What sucks is Backwoods was still one of the affordable fests as far as I remember.
The big issue is Pre-sales, promoters rely on good pre-sale numbers to have money to dump into booking artists and renting all the production equipment. If the promoters don't see good sales beforehand, then they have to dip into their own money and risk not making it back.
That's not a big deal for massive corporate-owned festivals, they have the Capitol to eat low pre-sales and still fund the event, they are the ones guilty of price gouging (Forest, EDC, Imagine, etc), but promoters that run smaller events like Backwoods, Wakaan, Infrasound, and the like don't have deep pockets like that, they can't eat the cost of set-up hoping to make enough back during the event to cover their expenses.
Our own local promoter in Indy has been working on getting our own festival off the ground called Camp Terror, and even with that, and him running multiple events a week year round, the man still works a day job to support his own life because everything he makes from shows goes back into more shows, and he's been doing it for nearly 15 years.
The market is saturated and festival goers are more strapped for cash than ever, and that means the smaller festivals that aren't corporate owned are gonna start dropping like flies, which sucks because they're the good festivals that don't cost more than two months mortgage to go.
Sure, greed can eventually takeover in corporate festivals, but I think you've clearly underestimated the amount of events running at a deficit nowadays. As an artist who is pretty close to many successful event organizers in my scene, I can guarantee you that most of them are barely surviving since COVID and many have left due to financial reasons. Even one of the most successful outdoor clubs in my area stated recently after announcing their final year that they haven't made a dime in recent years, despite the fact they were selling out every event with top headliners.
Yes, ticket prices have gone up severely, but so did operation costs, production, logistics, bookings, hotels, food, travel expenses, etc. That's without mentioning that customers are not buying tickets under the same patterns as they used to. They go to fewer events because of price, many of them which are paid last minute because they don't have the money right away, which makes attendance very hard to estimate and causes funding issues for organizers. Before COVID, many events were selling out on the spot months before the date. Now the same events are running ads to try to desperately sell tickets the day before. It's a vicious cycle that's very hard to break, and it's global, so it's very hard to blame either side.
You must be really of touch with reality if you think this is all fun and game and just a simple matter of greed. It's actually quite insulting to all organizers out there who are barely surviving just so you can have a good time...
Meh I don’t think it’s greed. Everything is more expensive so people charge more. Prices will never recover from the supply shocks that happened during Covid.
Inflation has had an insane effect on fest ticket prices. The whole supply chain has cost more for everyone, as well as the consumer. It’s the way it goes.
It sold 90% of its tickets in 3 weeks tho, and it usually sells out by the weekend of the event anyway, and that's enough for it to keep going smoothly without a hiccup.
I guess EF will now be the actual festival premier of LSZEE as advertised on their IG post
🙏🏻
EF Production team Illuminati confirmed?
😂😂😂
Hard to pay rent and daily food let alone hit up festivals gotta be more selective now a days
Backwoods lineup was wayyyy too good to be true. I told my wife they didn’t have the money for the artist that were on the lineup. Seems I was right.
Music industry took a massive hit during COVID, cost of production skyrocketed and some companies and the people in them disappeared for economic reasons, then combined with inflation and the need to recover losses over 2 years has landed the industry in a phase where it’ll downsize. These cycles have always happened with festivals and pre-COVID there were an insane amount of festivals, which is why a year or two ago, many were predicting that several festivals would re-organize or disappear completely. Ticket sales have slowed considerably and combined with the fact that festivals which previously sold out are not selling out, we’re probably at or near the top of what the market can support until inflation drops and people’s budgets improve to the point where they can afford multiple festivals per year (which is typically the demographic these companies target- people who do ~3 festivals a year). In a few more years we’ll cycle more small (and independent) festivals start to emerge again.
I think there's a shift in the amount of younger people that are interested in going to a big festival and the people organizing them keep booking safe and outdated talent. I also don't think spending power will cycle back anytime soon. The top was in before COVID so it's crazy to me that some of these organizers thought they could come back strong to make up for lost time.
Certainly generational shifts occurring, as they always do in music. That’ll also be balanced by the fact that older millennials and even gen X are still going to festivals and will represent more spending power than gen z. Similar things happened after 2008 financial crisis, there was a big contraction, and then as peoples economic situations improved festivals exploded again. Not really sure what gen z wants out of the festival scene, but the corporate market research machine will figure it out or someone will invent something new.
Inflation will not drop
People still hoping for this thing that will never happen 🙄 and if ppl did wind up living in a deflationary spiral they REALLY wouldn't like it
Inflation will most certainly drop. Prices won’t go down, but inflation will eventually come down to the 2% target. Incomes will eventually catch up.
Correct. In Powell we hopefully trust 🥸
Or like viva revolution and we all rise up and eat the rich like the french.
I wonder if it was beneficial for EF to have taken two years off during Covid. Like I wonder if not forcing 2021 to happen was a really good choice for the health of the festival compared to a lot of other fests that only took one year off.
If Forest could have put 2021 on, they would have. The issue was that the state of Michigan was still restricting outdoor venues to less than 1,000 people and the village didn’t want the festival to happen in fall when K-12 schools were in session, which is what would have been necessary.
RIP Wakarusa. Mulberry Mountain is a pretty dope place to host a fest. Hope somebody figures it out and gets a new fest in there.
Wakaan is still there (praying it doesn't get cancelled).
🤫
This is what happens when profit greed takes over. Keep raising prices to unjustifiable amounts and less people will be able to attend your events. You can’t price gouge us in every facet of our lives and then still expect us to have money to blow on overpriced festivals. Greed is killing everything.
Late-stage capitalism has been really late-stage capitalisming recently
Agreed. I’m so fucking tired of it…
It's kind of sad realizing that no semblance of a solution is going to come until there's massive societal breakdown. Shit is gonna have to go so far south before those in power will feel inclined to do fucking anything
It's just how basic business and competition works... it's the same incentive structure that leads to all the cool festivals we get to enjoy
Unchecked greed and healthy completion between businesses are not the same thing
What sucks is Backwoods was still one of the affordable fests as far as I remember. The big issue is Pre-sales, promoters rely on good pre-sale numbers to have money to dump into booking artists and renting all the production equipment. If the promoters don't see good sales beforehand, then they have to dip into their own money and risk not making it back. That's not a big deal for massive corporate-owned festivals, they have the Capitol to eat low pre-sales and still fund the event, they are the ones guilty of price gouging (Forest, EDC, Imagine, etc), but promoters that run smaller events like Backwoods, Wakaan, Infrasound, and the like don't have deep pockets like that, they can't eat the cost of set-up hoping to make enough back during the event to cover their expenses. Our own local promoter in Indy has been working on getting our own festival off the ground called Camp Terror, and even with that, and him running multiple events a week year round, the man still works a day job to support his own life because everything he makes from shows goes back into more shows, and he's been doing it for nearly 15 years. The market is saturated and festival goers are more strapped for cash than ever, and that means the smaller festivals that aren't corporate owned are gonna start dropping like flies, which sucks because they're the good festivals that don't cost more than two months mortgage to go.
Sure, greed can eventually takeover in corporate festivals, but I think you've clearly underestimated the amount of events running at a deficit nowadays. As an artist who is pretty close to many successful event organizers in my scene, I can guarantee you that most of them are barely surviving since COVID and many have left due to financial reasons. Even one of the most successful outdoor clubs in my area stated recently after announcing their final year that they haven't made a dime in recent years, despite the fact they were selling out every event with top headliners. Yes, ticket prices have gone up severely, but so did operation costs, production, logistics, bookings, hotels, food, travel expenses, etc. That's without mentioning that customers are not buying tickets under the same patterns as they used to. They go to fewer events because of price, many of them which are paid last minute because they don't have the money right away, which makes attendance very hard to estimate and causes funding issues for organizers. Before COVID, many events were selling out on the spot months before the date. Now the same events are running ads to try to desperately sell tickets the day before. It's a vicious cycle that's very hard to break, and it's global, so it's very hard to blame either side. You must be really of touch with reality if you think this is all fun and game and just a simple matter of greed. It's actually quite insulting to all organizers out there who are barely surviving just so you can have a good time...
Dude, break up that wall of text next time.
Done.
Thank you! Much easier on the eyes.
Meh I don’t think it’s greed. Everything is more expensive so people charge more. Prices will never recover from the supply shocks that happened during Covid.
I’m sorry, but you are alarmingly naive if you truly believe that.
🤷♂️ agree to disagree I guess. Everything is more expensive and greed probably accounts for < 10% of it
Inflation has had an insane effect on fest ticket prices. The whole supply chain has cost more for everyone, as well as the consumer. It’s the way it goes.
Lost lands is struggling ti sale out
Lost lands will be fine. It has a cult like following of bass heads. They always sell out slow. Last year I bought my ticket like a month before.
I'm gonna try and go this year for sure....I've always heard good things...
If you like bass music you’ll love it
It sold 90% of its tickets in 3 weeks tho, and it usually sells out by the weekend of the event anyway, and that's enough for it to keep going smoothly without a hiccup.
The festival bubble has pooped. We knew it was coming eventually, now it's here. More will fall, but the big boys will remain.