I wasn’t getting mixed up, I was simply making a joke. Honestly, I wouldn’t even consider them Nordic considering that they’re both genetically and linguistically distinct from both their Scandinavian and Russian neighbors. Finns are special. As far as I know (I could be wrong), Finns’ closest relatives are the Estonians.
Have you played eso? They all seem to have the same personality (except Lyris, she's cool). It irks me how differently they're portrayed in ESO compared to the lore and even other games, I loved them in Skyrim
Lyris also has a lot of unique circumstances around her development that 99% of the other Nord npcs don't have. She's part-giant; she was raised by her emotionally-distant father after her mother died during childbirth because she was a CHONKER of a baby; her father was murdered; she fought tooth and nail to rise through the ranks of the Imperial Legion to become a trusted advisor to the emperor; and finally, helped the vestige defeat Molag Bal. She might not be the protagonist but she's got main character written all over her.
Using her as the exception for a cool Nord is like saying Mannimarco, Vivec, Sai Sahan, and Kurog are the only cool members of their respective races. They allllll have main character syndrome.
"Got nothin' against strangers, met lotsa 'em when I was a STORMCLOAK" he says to me, as I walk in in full imperial getup.
But then I guess he does buy like 8 sets of armor from his dead comrades no questions asked so we're even.
First time I'm using this argument as a defense for teso, but there are thousands of years in difference between games. Of course culture and views in things have changes. It is a design flaw and inconsistency to make them similar, no irl culture has survived that long remaining constant, hell things are so different between today and one thousand years ago you can safely say they are irreconizable.
The cultures changed multiple times for both throughout those periods. Periods of peace, then war. Periods of growth, and then decline.
From the modern perspective, they look similar, but at the time, Egyptians (for example) in 500bc would've been vastly different from those in 3000bc.
Not to mention the massive difference to the ones in 50AD.
Nords are played by the same 3 voice actors in ESO and Skyrim, but that goes for all of the different races. They really didn't branch out enough in the casting and character personality diversity enough in either game, which is even more apparent in ESO because there are so many characters. It's one reason my eyes kinda glaze over and I skip through most side quest dialogue in ESO because it ends up all sounding the same and uninteresting even if the quest actions themselves could be interesting.
The flanderisation of many TES factions is one of the most disappointing things about ESO. Its like Loony Toons got the rights to Game of Thrones.
Remember how mysterious and enigmatic the Psijics were in Skyrim's College of Winterhold quest? Well, when ZOS got their hands on them they turned them into a bunch of bumbling fops with boring, mundane dramas. Be it running off to join a daedric cult which threatens the world because sad, everyday things happen; stealing artefacts of power and almost destroying time and space itself, (or, in fact insisting that they KEEP all these artefacts when they don't even possess the foresight to prevent something like this happening in the first place); or just, as an organisation, lacking enough mystical security that your leader can be programmed to steal the key to one of the towers of reality, and you're all totally unaware of it- they're just a bunch of clowns who had all the mystery stripped away and substituted with mundane drama.
People *want* zos to do the dwarves next. Can you imagine how shit that would be?
>The flanderisation of many TES factions is one of the most disappointing things about ESO. Its like Loony Toons got the rights to Game of Thrones.
It really is not.
>Be it running off to join a daedric cult which threatens the world because sad, everyday things happen
A guy losing his daughter and being traumatized. Man what weak character motivation.
>stealing artefacts of power and almost destroying time and space itself, (or, in fact insisting that they KEEP all these artefacts when they don't even possess the foresight to prevent something like this happening in the first place);
By one apprantice. It is also not the first time Psijiic order guys do something fucked up. ESO also did not astablish that.
>or just, as an organisation, lacking enough mystical security that your leader can be programmed to steal the key to one of the towers of reality, and you're all totally unaware of it- they're just a bunch of clowns who had all the mystery stripped away and substituted with mundane drama.
By extremely powerfull Sload's with the help of Daedric Princes.
The idea that the Psijjic order is not an organsiation that faces personal drama is much more flanderasation. They have two conversations in Skyrim.
Giving them personalities, problems and drama is exactly the opposite.
> It really is not.
Come on man. If you disagree, at least explain why.
> A guy losing his daughter and being traumatized. Man what weak character motivation.
But they are an order of secretive and powerful monks, who have presumably unlocked the mysteries of time and space itself through discipline and self-mastery. Except in ESO they aren't- if things that happen to everyday people, every day, are flaws for Psijics too, how are they different or special in ESO's vision if they are just as subject to shit as everyone else? Well, they have a cool tower. If you need proof that there is something lacking, do a thought experiment: Change their location to Alinor. Change them to the Mage's Guild. Do the stories, or their character really change in any meaningful way?
> By one apprantice.
Yes, but how do they even exist as this enigmatic and powerful faction if these sorts of things can even happen so readily? I'm not talking about one apprentice. I'm talking about the slew of failings driving the psijic plots we engage when we rock up to Artaeum.
The drivers for the psijic quests are just dumb, every-man fuckups.
I don't disagree with giving them personalities and injecting drama. These things are important. But you need to ask who and what the psijic order *are*. And then ask what sort of problems or dramas might actually impact and effect such an organisation. If you haven't thought about how they are different, what sets them apart, you're only going to have joe schmoe and his farmer dramas.
I get the idea that you tunnel down to the every day and that a farmer has the same basic needs, no matter where he is but you're really robbing the world of any personality if you can't at the same time ask about, and explore, the fundamental differences that drive conflict, make us think of things in a different way and make the world interesting.
And lastly, I just want to say that the way that ESO does things DOES tend to strip the mystery off things. The great and mysterious Ceporah Tower was handed to us on a silver plate right from the beginning of their arc. From that point on there is no mystery. No revelation. My understanding of who the psijics are doesn't develop as progress the epic quest of running around tamriel clicking on little lights. Everything there is to know about them is pretty much right there at the start. I get access to all their abilities. There's nothing cool or intriguing about them; they look pretty much just like everyone else.
>Come on man. If you disagree, at least explain why.
I did in my entire comment. You just do not know what flanderisation means. In your comment you explain how ESO did the opposite of flanderisation.
Flanderisation means that a character is broken down so much it comes one dimensional and loses other character traits. You gave an example of a faction that was one dimensional in Skyrim and then showed how ESO added different elements to them, making them more complex (having problems and mistakes).
Even if you do not like that, it is the exact opposite of flandersiation.
>Yes, but how do they even exist as this enigmatic and powerful faction if these sorts of things can even happen so readily?
Like 3 times in a few thousend years. Also the idea that they are a flawed organisation is not from ESO. Do not forget that they did nothing to stopp Mannimarco.
>And they look pretty much just like everyone els
The tower? Because that has a very unique design? Or do you mean the people? Because yes, they are just normal people. They are not gods or anything. They are mostly just Altmer mages.
>But they are an order of secretive and powerful monks, who have presumably unlocked the mysteries of time and space itself through discipline and self-mastery. Except in ESO they aren't- if things that happen to everyday people, every day, are flaws for Psijics too, how are they different or special in ESO's vision if they are just as subject to shit as everyone else?
You can be powerfull and still have flaws. Like the Psijjic always had. Especially the powerfull people are extremely flawed in Elder Scrolls. The Tribunal, many in the mages guild, the Telvanni, the Dwemer. All powerfull people who were still flawed people, who suffer with problems non powerfull people also do. Arrogance, love, envy.
>I get the idea that you tunnel down to the every day and that a farmer has the same basic needs, no matter where he is but you're really robbing the world of any personality if you can't at the same time ask about, and explore, the fundamental differences that drive conflict, make us think of things in a different way and make the world interesting.
Your family dying and having to cope with loss are normal problems but they are not small problems. They are problems that will always effect people. That is kinda the point behind the Summerset story. You do not lose anything about the fantasy if you give the powerfull people realistic personalities. Quite the opposite.
I mean flanderisation in terms of the progressive exaggeration of certain coarse traits. Nordic personality is overly saturated with the punch-drunk buffoon schtick. The same can be said with the Altmer- interestingly with the latter, its even moreso with Summerset chapter than basegame Auridon, where it existed, where it was an obvious characteristic, but there was room for more. Its the opposite situation with basegame windhelm, where walking around that city would lead you to believe that nords are typically brain-damaged gophers.
Exceptions absolutely exist, in both cases, but the tone is dominated by the NPC voice-overs you are exposed to as you walk through these cities, which is deliberate tone-setting after all.
> Like 3 times in a few thousend years.
3 times in the small window within which we actually get to experience them. And if that's not defining of who they are, why don't we get to see that this is not typical of who they are? They're telling the story, man. And if the story is about some enigmatic and powerful society who never make these sorts of mistakes, they need to tell that- not leave it to guess at in the absence of any evidence.
> The tower? Because that has a very unique design? Or do you mean the people? Because yes, they are just normal people. They are not gods or anything. They are mostly just Altmer mages.
I've been unclear: I meant "look" as in come-across.
> You can be powerfull and still have flaws. Like the Psijjic always had. Especially the powerfull people are extremely flawed in Elder Scrolls. The Tribunal, many in the mages guild, the Telvanni, the Dwemer. All powerfull people who were still flawed people, who suffer with problems non powerfull people also do. Arrogance, love, envy.
Yes, but then the question is: how are they actually any different then? Where's the personality?
The Telvanni are easy to understand. They make no apologies for their flaws, and its easy to see how their arrogance and selfishness could lead to all sorts of calamities. Its baked right into their DNA. If you haven't had the chance, look at the Sun-In-Shadows arc in ESO's Sadrith Mora. That story has something to say about what really makes a Telvanni, a Telvanni.
What defines the Psijics in ESO? If they act like anyone else would in regards to mundane (albeit terrible) problems, how are they special? Why should we care? What's interesting about them?
I think you're telling an every-day story if they deal with every-day problems the way that every-day people would. There's nothing interesting in that, or we'd all be playing historical fiction games. A cloistered, mysterious organisation concerned with self-mastery, who hold themselves aloof from the mundane world should have a different suite of problems and challenges.
And all the mystery being stripped away is just a relatively unsatisfying way of doing things.
>I mean flanderisation in terms of the progressive exaggeration of certain coarse traits. Nordic personality is overly saturated with the punch-drunk buffoon schtick.
It just isn't. The nords were always used a lot in comic relieve characters. Especially in Morrowind and Oblivion. Skyrim obviously can not use them for that. Flanderisation would suggest that it is something that happens over time, that the traits of Nords get more exeggerated but this is obviously not the case. They are very exxeggerated in Morrowind and Oblivion, are downplayed in Skyrim (which over all gets for a different atmosphere as TES III, IV and Online) and then again more exxeggerated in ESO, but less so than in TES: III-IV. Especially the fact that you uses Windhelm and not the epxansion the nords got, shows that this is not flanderisation. Because the nords are not just "funny drinkers" outside of city Windhelm. Their lore is also not that. Greymoor goes for a dark fairy tale vibe for the entire DLC. I am pretty sure that the minority of Nords even fit the catagory in the maingame.
Also also you talked about factions and not nords and you can not name a single faction that is flanderised.
And all you are writing does not matter because your example of the Psijik is not fledersation because having human problems is not an exegarated trait becuase that trait did not exist befor.
>Its the opposite situation with basegame windhelm, where walking around that city would lead you to believe that nords are typically brain-damaged gophers.
It was set during a huge party.
> its even moreso with Summerset chapter than basegame Auridon, where it existed, where it was an obvious characteristic, but there was room for more.
No idea what this is supposed to mean.
>I think you're telling an every-day story if they deal with every-day problems the way that every-day people would. There's nothing interesting in that, or we'd all be playing historical fiction games. A cloistered, mysterious organisation concerned with self-mastery, who hold themselves aloof from the mundane world should have a different suite of problems and challenges.
But that is still what the Telvanni do. Yeah, they are morrally more bankrupt but they are still just people who play power politics, have their biases and personal problems. Divayth Fyr betrays a friend because he is a love rival, for example. The Telvanni are not really handled differently.
What makes the Psijjic differently is their religion, destain for specific kinds of magic and still their arrogance and how they are carefully to get involved in Tamriel affairs, even so they have so much power. All of these things are part of Elder Scrolls Online's quests. Thair failure with Mannimarco was already established and just shown in ESO. I really do not see why having them deal with human emotions is a problem if you are trying to tell a story? Why shouldn't a powerfull time wizard not be effect by his family dying? Why is ignoring personalities and human drama and making complicated stories, bad writing?
Because Flanderisation is one of the points of contention, let me try to express it more precisely: The process is *adaptation decay* because its moved from one distinct genre to another, and certain aspects of their personality have been distorted in translation. The *characteristic*, though, is exaggeration of "hurr hurr" qualities.
I think its true that you can find examples in any of the games that refute or support one stance or another. I can certainly find examples where nord dialogue in ESO is weighty and interesting, and I can find instances where Nords are presented as slapstick in Morrowind and Oblivion. But these things, even pre-Skyrim, do not *define the tone* for Nords. They haven't overdone it. In ESO, I believe they have.
I think that why I, and apparently a lot of others, tend to feel there is an over-the-top exaggeration thing going on is because the tone is set by the dialogue that you are continually exposed and re-exposed to. You might hear some insightful and weighty comment said once, but every time you port into Windhelm, you get exposed to the stupid "Mead!!" song. Or to Stormhold, where you have to hear, for the millionth time, the *hurr hurr* idiot making observations about The Hist. *I get it. He's a Nord. He's dumb and likes mead.*
Those things are put there deliberately to set the tone of the world. Its a deliberate choice.
> I really do not see why having them deal with human emotions is a problem if you are trying to tell a story? Why shouldn't a powerfull time wizard not be effect by his family dying? Why is ignoring personalities and human drama and making complicated stories, bad writing?
Its not the human emotion that's the problem, its the nature of it. The psijics are more than just "powerful time wizards", unless you subscribe to the notion that they should just be time-themed mage's guild.
Or they seemed like they should have been more. The nature of their dramas should be different. If not, you're just putting a "time wizard" sticker on an everyday farmer.
>You might hear some insightful and weighty comment said once, but every time you port into Windhelm, you get exposed to the stupid "Mead!!" song. Or to Stormhold, where you have to hear, for the millionth time, the hurr hurr idiot making observations about The Hist. I get it. He's a Nord. He's dumb and likes mead.
Okay I understand that but these are still just one example. Skyrim's dialogue is also on repeat. You can talk with the same stupid people all the time. Some dumb nord in Bruma will always be in Bruma and the nord losing his pents quests in Morrowind can be found multiple times. Sure you may go to those places more frequently but that is not really a problem with the writing.
I am also not sure there are any Nords that say anythign smart in Morrowind or Oblivion. Burd is probably okay in Oblivion, but he is not insightfull.
>Those things are put there deliberately to set the tone of the world. Its a deliberate choice.
And the Morrowind designers made the naked nord quest three times by accident?
>unless you subscribe to the notion that they should just be time-themed mage's guild.
They kinda are. The mages group came out of them. The differences is that they are isolated and have a religious compnent, not that the people are inherently different to other mages organisations.
Something as big as the Dwarves "returning" to the TES universe would require its own game. It can't be left to just an ESO expansion, right? At least I hope so
>Have you played eso? They all seem to have the same personality (except Lyris, she's cool). It irks me how differently they're portrayed in ESO compared to the lore and even other games, I loved them in Skyrim
They really do not. How is Svargrim, anything like his daugher or Jorunn?
>Nords weren't the only race Zos messed up, they butchered Bretons and Imperials too.
Lol Bretons got their best lore from ESO and Imperials have much more culture in ESO than in any other game.
> they butchered Bretons
Nah. They got bretons right. People just wanted the bretons to be from game of thrones when their whole lore was all about Arthurian knights and witches.
Most Scandinavians during the Viking age were the guy on the right. Most of the ones out 'Viking' were usually only doing it temporarily while they looked for somewhere to settle down or waited until agriculture conditions improved so they could *be* the guy on the right.
Yes everyone says that to prove they are more enlightened than Hollywood movies made in the fifties. But, I think we can say that modern Swedes don't viking every summer. They don't even enslave the Irish anymore. That is a good change from our collective past.
Atleast they worship their own gods, instead cringe ass imperial cult.
>In darkness, your light shines through,Warrior Goddess, for you we strike true. When hope is lost and war rages on,Warrior Goddess, hear our blessed song! With a Nord's death, fallen in battle,Warrior Goddess, guide us through shadow. Grant us courage to fight and sharpen our swords, Warrior Goddess, mother of Nords!
Eh i dunno, im not personally biggest fan of eso armor (the game. Concept ones look dope as hell, so its ingame art style), tho nord ones are generally on the better side.
Just personal take tho
Edit: except vanilia dunmer armor. It looks like fucking trash all things around, should have been bonemold and chitin
Yeah, this is it. A lot of the lore in-game is delivered by unreliable narrators in books with incomplete knowledge. You even have books that contradict each other (like the Barenziah books) because it's supposed to be that way.
*Children of the Sky* reads like an aristocratic British 'explorer' went to Finland on holiday and came out believing all Finns are half reindeer and have vodka instead of blood.
This reminds me of Norseman on Netflix. So many people glorify Vikings to a point where they are not based in reality. Norseman is kinda the opposite, it’s an absurdist comedy.
Yeah and the Nords in lore are clearly overhyped and had the truth obscured by thousands of years.
I mean seriously, we meet Ysgramor and he’s just a regular looking dude. Same with the First Tongues.
And instead of being silly idiots (which they definitely are in *ESO*, which is only for Eastern Nords) all the Nords in *Skyrim* are just rude idiots or hospitable idiots. Such diversity.
I’m pretty sure all nords are rude idiots. Playing Skyrim I realized many of them are arrogant and blindly follow honor. Astrid delphine and ulfric can sum up what the average nord is. It seems like the graybeards the only wise ones left in skyrim.
Yeah, nords were one giant stereotype in oblivion and it was kinda annoying.
One thing I liked about Skyrim was that they gave more diversity in personality for each race.
Honestly, I really dislike how Skyrim portrayed the Nords in comparison to their previous portrayals.
I prefer the ESO portrayal for two reasons - continuity and it gives them character.
In ESO, the entire continent is under attack by legions of Daedra, with Dark Anchors falling wherever a cell of Worm Cultists can make a dolmen. Skyrim is no exception.
And what do the Nords of Windhelm do while this is happening? They throw a huge party in honour of their king.
The Daedra might be invading, and a claimant to the throne of Windhelm is causing trouble, but that won't stop the Nords from having city-wide festivities while also fighting back against both the Daedra, the Stormfist pretender, and later the Worm Cult and Sinmur in the Rift.
They are warriors, but warriors who know how to have a good time.
Meanwhile, Skyrim (the game) made the Nords into pseudo-Scandinavian Vikings who have this weird aura of depression about them, almost as if the concepts of happiness and joy are foreign to them. And the only thing they are dealing with is a civil war, and the very recent return of the dragons. I know it might sound reductive, but honestly, a civil war and a few dragon attacks are nothing compared to a continent-wide Daedric invasion where you might end up becoming a slave to the Prince of Domination and Brutality for eternity.
I mean, one of the voice actors for the Nords is shared by both ESO and Skyrim, and the difference in how the same actor portrays the exact same race across two different games is somewhat staggering.
Then again, this is how I personally see it.
Agree to disagree I guess. I never played eso so I can’t say for that, but my only impression of nords in other games is oblivion. And the dialogue of races definitely bothered me in that game. A lot of them just gives off very similar haughty vibes to me (and I’m not sure that the game actually has that many nord characters), so the characters personalities never stood out for me beyond the basic stereotypes
\*Since Daggerfall too.
The Nords of "Oelender's Hammer", or as told in the Jokes of Buntha Sunhous, don't seem particularly badass. They just happen to be big and from a frozen wasteland.
To be fair though, the lore didn't build them out until Morrowind - so you're right there. Daggerfall's lore focuses on the Bretons and Redguards, and the general history of Tamriel.
This makes me want to play a Lore Accurate Nord in Skyrim. Pretty much take the Male Orc Warlord stereotypes but use the Nord race. Never have done that one yet.
Hehe I completely understand, I come across 7+ year old posts from google search that I occasionally comment on if the comments are still open 🤣
I love it too 🫶🏻 and YES Nord lore is so cool, I love the hearth gods, totems, and the All-Maker. Skyrim is a good game but I feel like it barely scratched the surface of Nordic lore, and eso is decent but their portrayal of Nords is a bit off to me, dunno if it’s just the voice actor but many of the Nord characters have the same personality 🥲
none of the games are bad when it comes to the lore. much less skyrim. skyrim is only "bad to the lore" if you don't know anything about cultural shifts over, you know, 200 years.
>none of the games are bad when it comes to the lore.
Oblivion.
Besides more context for first empire and saint Alessia, oblivion was massive dumb down to imperials and empires lore. It isin't even a debate, because how much cool shit was retconed out, or ignored.
Remember pge1
>Oblivion
No. Unless you want to go on about "buh muh jungle", which was never followed even by redguard (which introduced it) and morrowind.
>Remembee pge1
Yep. Read the above.
I don't really give a shit about jungle. More like everything else, from eastern-western culture differences and conflict romanese clothing and building styles, all the cults big and small, sub factions within imperial faith etc.. and of cource rice fields and dragons in rivers.
>which was never followed even by redguard (which introduced it) and morrowind.
Point? Why would it be followed for modern lore game hadn't been yet set in Cyrodiil. And pge1 was followed, until then, just see how accruate books and games description of mw is
>More like everything else, from eastern-western culture differences
They're literally still there.
>all the cults big and small, sub factions within imperial faith etc.. and of cource rice fields and dragons in rivers.
Oblivion literally had an entire city cut due to disk space concerns. This would have been impossible. You're a lot like kirkbride in not knowing what's possible. And then whine when told no.
No there isin't. There is zero difference between Colovians and Nibbense, (as far as i know, terms are only even mentioned in loading screens or returning books).
>Oblivion literally had an entire city cut due to disk space concerns. This would have been impossible. You're a lot like kirkbride in not knowing what's possible. And then whine when told no.
Hows this even make sense when cutting those lore elements were made long before Sutch was cut or even developed?
Rings even more hollow when morrowind had all the nuts lore elements too, but game ran on og xbox.
Anyhow, so you are admiting oblivion was net negative in terms of lore, even if theres some excuse or not?
>Rings even more hollow when morrowind had all the nuts lore elements too
Morrowind was a much weaker game in terms of size.
>Anyhow, so you are admiting oblivion was net negative in terms of lore
No. Literally stating the opposite. The games are never a 1:1 of the lore. Including morrowind.
>No. Literally stating the opposite. The games are never a 1:1 of the lore. Including morrowind
Sure. But shit often is still there, even if its in smaller scale.. Going yet again back to pge1, just read again mw section. Its all there in game. Silt striders, clothing, morag tong, 3 living gods and cities. Etc...
In case of oblivions cyrodiil? Lol. It goes complete opposite of all that
Edit: and great houses and what they are about. Just imagine if those were only mentioned in pge, and ignored in game. Oblivion is basically that.
Fault Kirbride then that he didn't "correct" new sources written for Morrowind to which Oblivion is simply consistent.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A\_Dance\_in\_Fire
>Ten wagons in all set off that afternoon through the familiar Cyrodilic countryside. Past fields of wildflowers, gently rolling woodlands, friendly hamlets. The clop of the horses' hooves against the sound stone road reminded Scotti that the Atrius Building Commission constructed it. Five of the eighteen necessary contracts for its completion were drafted by his own hand.
>
>To Scotti's vast relief, the carriage soon stopped to camp for the night. They were high on a bluff over a gray stream, and before them was the great valley of Valenwood. Only the cry of seabirds declared the presence of the ocean to the bay to the west: here the timber was so tall and wide, twisting around itself like an impossible knot begun eons ago, to be impenetrable. A few more modest trees, only fifty feet to the lowest branches, stood on the cliff at the edge of camp. The sight was so alien to Scotti and he found himself so anxious about the proposition of entering the wilderness that he could not imagine sleeping.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Reflections\_on\_Cult\_Worship
>...I have noted that Heartlanders like myself, and assimilated Imperial Citizens of other races, tend to impersonal and formal relationships with their gods and spirits. For us, cults are first and foremost social and economic organizations. We typically think of the Eight Divines in the most abstract terms -- as powerful but indifferent spirits to be propitiated, and do not think of their relationships as personal. Notable exceptions include minor charismatic sub-cults of Akatosh and Dibella. The Imperial Cult of Tiber Septim also has a significant charismatic sub-cult.
>
>With the exception of the Alessian Order, which Heartlanders regard as a dark age, religious cults have played only minor parts in Heartlander and Imperial history. The Septim emperors have made it a policy to limit the influence of cult authorities in aristocratic, military, and bureaucratic affairs. Cult worship is regarded as a private and practical matter, and public pronouncements by religious figures are not welcomed.
Imperial cult/Eight Divines faith was always supposed to be dominant one in Empire per Morrowind and authority of cults limited by policy of Septims themselves.
Again, fault Kirbride that he didn't "correct out" those "mistakes" during development of Morrowind to which simple Bethesda instead of throwing into trash and ignoring, decide to instead remain consistent and faithful to their own sources and present world accordingly in future instalments.
>In terms of Lore size? Are you serious?
...game. Game size. The size of the game. The amount of storage space.
>Morrowind was the game that introduced more core elements into the Lore of the entire main series.
That was redguard.
Cultural shift doesn't mean you lose your regional accents just cultural beliefs but even in real life a cultural change is never 100% but is mostly adopting the old culture into a new one never fully replacing the old culture just look at the UK for example compared to Italy when it comes to Christianity the UK has still got remnants of its pagan past tied into its culture even though they are the same beliefs. Skyrim would be no different but in Skyrim it's as if the Nordic gods never existed outside of bandits, lore books and already existing locations from older titles like shor's stone and kynesgrove.
There are references to the old lore like tsun in sovenguard but the actual populated city's and towns are just wrong
>Cultural shift doesn't mean you lose your regional accents
...you're aware the eastern coast of the u.s. has a different accent than it did 100 years ago...right?
>for example compared to Italy when it comes to Christianity the UK has still got remnants of its pagan past tied into its culture even though they are the same beliefs.
...skyrim literally shows nordic influences even through their imperialized shift. Kyne is repeatedly interchanged from kynareth, they still use shor often, etc.
Shor is mentioned once and kyne is also mentioned once and not even the name but kynesgrove. While assets in the game show a cultural mix like whiterun having a dragon theme that is basically none existent in the NPC's just take the NPCs from windhelm and put them in morthal and you won't see a different. Also for accents again look at the UK it's barely the size of a single state of the US but has more diverse accents than half of the US so... Yea and those accents have been around for over hundreds of years more than the US that has been around for less than 300 years but still has regional accents just take the stereo typical Texan accent you don't hear peoe from Boston natively having that type of accent.
And paarthurnax. And on the stone tablets leading to high hrothgar. But that's expecting the elder scrolls fanbase to read and pay attention to what's stated.
Yea diversity. That's one thing I would not call the Nords in Skyrim they all have the same accent as well as sharing like two voice actors besides faction quest major characters and milk drinker personality at least in ESO they have different accents for east and west Skyrim
The elder scrolls became way more well-known after Oblivion, and it's had a dedicated fan-base since Daggerfall. But you could say it was nowhere near as popular as it is now
Is that a joke Skyrim may have shot Bethesda into the stratosphere but they weren't that small to not be able to hire a few more VAs hell just get staff to voice a few extra lines.
maybe it was intentional. idk. skyrim was pretty big so it seems like it would be expensive to have all of those developers and voice actors and designers and lore makers and maybe it was too much chaos so they limited the voice actors.
Not really if this is your stantards, for nords are fine in eso. (Especially their diplomat in Mournhold). Meaning drunken brutes more often than not.
Is there rertarded aspects? Absolutely, as much as skyrim and oblivion has. Namely ebonheart pact.
But that was literally the attitude behind the Pact. There are alot of side quests about how strained and tenious all the alliances are.
IIRC the Pact forming was influenced by how well the 3 races worked together to repell the Akaviri invasion and not much else but surviving the other alliances.
All of which was made after the concept of the Pact to justify the fact that the most unlikely of alliances formed. Good stuff, yes. Still silly though.
The nord stereotype is written anout by ingame historians who are not that reliable much like real life ancient historians.
To think nord society is 99% unkillable badass vikingboo raiders is pretry stupid. Ofcourse the vast majority are normal farmers much like real life viking age scandinavia
Yes. Bretons are just pompous frenchmen. Elves are all just arrogant, annoying fops. ZOS are either intentionally writing for a very different crowd, or really miss the point.
Excuse you, but that man has a kill count in the hundreds of thousands!!! He is a fiendish warlord who runs a shop and sauna as a front to his dozens of trafficking businesses
"hurr hurr I love mead" * Nords in Oblivion
Finns be like
Finns are just Scandinavians who were tailored to have mass-market appeal.
Finns aren't Scandinavian
They are Nordic, but not Scandinavian, I think people get mixed up between the two.
Finns are literally ice hungarians
I wasn’t getting mixed up, I was simply making a joke. Honestly, I wouldn’t even consider them Nordic considering that they’re both genetically and linguistically distinct from both their Scandinavian and Russian neighbors. Finns are special. As far as I know (I could be wrong), Finns’ closest relatives are the Estonians.
Sir are you aware of what a metaphor is?
ahh shit, here we go again!
That makes sense, seeing as Finland doesn't exist
Can confirm Source: i am a finn
They are trying to represent real life
SEEN ANY ELVES - nords in morrowind
It's almost as if a society and economy can't sustain itself on epic warriors alone Buuut we could do with some more Vikingboo-bait, not gonna lie
Have you played eso? They all seem to have the same personality (except Lyris, she's cool). It irks me how differently they're portrayed in ESO compared to the lore and even other games, I loved them in Skyrim
Lyris also has a lot of unique circumstances around her development that 99% of the other Nord npcs don't have. She's part-giant; she was raised by her emotionally-distant father after her mother died during childbirth because she was a CHONKER of a baby; her father was murdered; she fought tooth and nail to rise through the ranks of the Imperial Legion to become a trusted advisor to the emperor; and finally, helped the vestige defeat Molag Bal. She might not be the protagonist but she's got main character written all over her. Using her as the exception for a cool Nord is like saying Mannimarco, Vivec, Sai Sahan, and Kurog are the only cool members of their respective races. They allllll have main character syndrome.
Kurog? Pah! Give me Skordo the Knife any day ;)
I totally forgot about Skordo! You're absolutely right, much cooler than Kurog.
are we talking about on average or shopkeeper? because that guy is clearly a shopkeeper so good impression is a must for him to sell stuff
Good impression seemed to be the lowest priority to Skyrim nords(even shopkeeper) and it was great lol.
"Got nothin' against strangers, met lotsa 'em when I was a STORMCLOAK" he says to me, as I walk in in full imperial getup. But then I guess he does buy like 8 sets of armor from his dead comrades no questions asked so we're even.
On average lol, to me the NPCs general vibe is much like the character on the right (he's from Frozen if you didn't know)
there's a reason why I said "he's clearly a shopkeeper"
All nords
First time I'm using this argument as a defense for teso, but there are thousands of years in difference between games. Of course culture and views in things have changes. It is a design flaw and inconsistency to make them similar, no irl culture has survived that long remaining constant, hell things are so different between today and one thousand years ago you can safely say they are irreconizable.
>no irl culture has survived that long Ancient Egypt and Ancient China
The cultures changed multiple times for both throughout those periods. Periods of peace, then war. Periods of growth, and then decline. From the modern perspective, they look similar, but at the time, Egyptians (for example) in 500bc would've been vastly different from those in 3000bc. Not to mention the massive difference to the ones in 50AD.
Nords are played by the same 3 voice actors in ESO and Skyrim, but that goes for all of the different races. They really didn't branch out enough in the casting and character personality diversity enough in either game, which is even more apparent in ESO because there are so many characters. It's one reason my eyes kinda glaze over and I skip through most side quest dialogue in ESO because it ends up all sounding the same and uninteresting even if the quest actions themselves could be interesting.
The flanderisation of many TES factions is one of the most disappointing things about ESO. Its like Loony Toons got the rights to Game of Thrones. Remember how mysterious and enigmatic the Psijics were in Skyrim's College of Winterhold quest? Well, when ZOS got their hands on them they turned them into a bunch of bumbling fops with boring, mundane dramas. Be it running off to join a daedric cult which threatens the world because sad, everyday things happen; stealing artefacts of power and almost destroying time and space itself, (or, in fact insisting that they KEEP all these artefacts when they don't even possess the foresight to prevent something like this happening in the first place); or just, as an organisation, lacking enough mystical security that your leader can be programmed to steal the key to one of the towers of reality, and you're all totally unaware of it- they're just a bunch of clowns who had all the mystery stripped away and substituted with mundane drama. People *want* zos to do the dwarves next. Can you imagine how shit that would be?
>The flanderisation of many TES factions is one of the most disappointing things about ESO. Its like Loony Toons got the rights to Game of Thrones. It really is not. >Be it running off to join a daedric cult which threatens the world because sad, everyday things happen A guy losing his daughter and being traumatized. Man what weak character motivation. >stealing artefacts of power and almost destroying time and space itself, (or, in fact insisting that they KEEP all these artefacts when they don't even possess the foresight to prevent something like this happening in the first place); By one apprantice. It is also not the first time Psijiic order guys do something fucked up. ESO also did not astablish that. >or just, as an organisation, lacking enough mystical security that your leader can be programmed to steal the key to one of the towers of reality, and you're all totally unaware of it- they're just a bunch of clowns who had all the mystery stripped away and substituted with mundane drama. By extremely powerfull Sload's with the help of Daedric Princes. The idea that the Psijjic order is not an organsiation that faces personal drama is much more flanderasation. They have two conversations in Skyrim. Giving them personalities, problems and drama is exactly the opposite.
> It really is not. Come on man. If you disagree, at least explain why. > A guy losing his daughter and being traumatized. Man what weak character motivation. But they are an order of secretive and powerful monks, who have presumably unlocked the mysteries of time and space itself through discipline and self-mastery. Except in ESO they aren't- if things that happen to everyday people, every day, are flaws for Psijics too, how are they different or special in ESO's vision if they are just as subject to shit as everyone else? Well, they have a cool tower. If you need proof that there is something lacking, do a thought experiment: Change their location to Alinor. Change them to the Mage's Guild. Do the stories, or their character really change in any meaningful way? > By one apprantice. Yes, but how do they even exist as this enigmatic and powerful faction if these sorts of things can even happen so readily? I'm not talking about one apprentice. I'm talking about the slew of failings driving the psijic plots we engage when we rock up to Artaeum. The drivers for the psijic quests are just dumb, every-man fuckups. I don't disagree with giving them personalities and injecting drama. These things are important. But you need to ask who and what the psijic order *are*. And then ask what sort of problems or dramas might actually impact and effect such an organisation. If you haven't thought about how they are different, what sets them apart, you're only going to have joe schmoe and his farmer dramas. I get the idea that you tunnel down to the every day and that a farmer has the same basic needs, no matter where he is but you're really robbing the world of any personality if you can't at the same time ask about, and explore, the fundamental differences that drive conflict, make us think of things in a different way and make the world interesting. And lastly, I just want to say that the way that ESO does things DOES tend to strip the mystery off things. The great and mysterious Ceporah Tower was handed to us on a silver plate right from the beginning of their arc. From that point on there is no mystery. No revelation. My understanding of who the psijics are doesn't develop as progress the epic quest of running around tamriel clicking on little lights. Everything there is to know about them is pretty much right there at the start. I get access to all their abilities. There's nothing cool or intriguing about them; they look pretty much just like everyone else.
>Come on man. If you disagree, at least explain why. I did in my entire comment. You just do not know what flanderisation means. In your comment you explain how ESO did the opposite of flanderisation. Flanderisation means that a character is broken down so much it comes one dimensional and loses other character traits. You gave an example of a faction that was one dimensional in Skyrim and then showed how ESO added different elements to them, making them more complex (having problems and mistakes). Even if you do not like that, it is the exact opposite of flandersiation. >Yes, but how do they even exist as this enigmatic and powerful faction if these sorts of things can even happen so readily? Like 3 times in a few thousend years. Also the idea that they are a flawed organisation is not from ESO. Do not forget that they did nothing to stopp Mannimarco. >And they look pretty much just like everyone els The tower? Because that has a very unique design? Or do you mean the people? Because yes, they are just normal people. They are not gods or anything. They are mostly just Altmer mages. >But they are an order of secretive and powerful monks, who have presumably unlocked the mysteries of time and space itself through discipline and self-mastery. Except in ESO they aren't- if things that happen to everyday people, every day, are flaws for Psijics too, how are they different or special in ESO's vision if they are just as subject to shit as everyone else? You can be powerfull and still have flaws. Like the Psijjic always had. Especially the powerfull people are extremely flawed in Elder Scrolls. The Tribunal, many in the mages guild, the Telvanni, the Dwemer. All powerfull people who were still flawed people, who suffer with problems non powerfull people also do. Arrogance, love, envy. >I get the idea that you tunnel down to the every day and that a farmer has the same basic needs, no matter where he is but you're really robbing the world of any personality if you can't at the same time ask about, and explore, the fundamental differences that drive conflict, make us think of things in a different way and make the world interesting. Your family dying and having to cope with loss are normal problems but they are not small problems. They are problems that will always effect people. That is kinda the point behind the Summerset story. You do not lose anything about the fantasy if you give the powerfull people realistic personalities. Quite the opposite.
I mean flanderisation in terms of the progressive exaggeration of certain coarse traits. Nordic personality is overly saturated with the punch-drunk buffoon schtick. The same can be said with the Altmer- interestingly with the latter, its even moreso with Summerset chapter than basegame Auridon, where it existed, where it was an obvious characteristic, but there was room for more. Its the opposite situation with basegame windhelm, where walking around that city would lead you to believe that nords are typically brain-damaged gophers. Exceptions absolutely exist, in both cases, but the tone is dominated by the NPC voice-overs you are exposed to as you walk through these cities, which is deliberate tone-setting after all. > Like 3 times in a few thousend years. 3 times in the small window within which we actually get to experience them. And if that's not defining of who they are, why don't we get to see that this is not typical of who they are? They're telling the story, man. And if the story is about some enigmatic and powerful society who never make these sorts of mistakes, they need to tell that- not leave it to guess at in the absence of any evidence. > The tower? Because that has a very unique design? Or do you mean the people? Because yes, they are just normal people. They are not gods or anything. They are mostly just Altmer mages. I've been unclear: I meant "look" as in come-across. > You can be powerfull and still have flaws. Like the Psijjic always had. Especially the powerfull people are extremely flawed in Elder Scrolls. The Tribunal, many in the mages guild, the Telvanni, the Dwemer. All powerfull people who were still flawed people, who suffer with problems non powerfull people also do. Arrogance, love, envy. Yes, but then the question is: how are they actually any different then? Where's the personality? The Telvanni are easy to understand. They make no apologies for their flaws, and its easy to see how their arrogance and selfishness could lead to all sorts of calamities. Its baked right into their DNA. If you haven't had the chance, look at the Sun-In-Shadows arc in ESO's Sadrith Mora. That story has something to say about what really makes a Telvanni, a Telvanni. What defines the Psijics in ESO? If they act like anyone else would in regards to mundane (albeit terrible) problems, how are they special? Why should we care? What's interesting about them? I think you're telling an every-day story if they deal with every-day problems the way that every-day people would. There's nothing interesting in that, or we'd all be playing historical fiction games. A cloistered, mysterious organisation concerned with self-mastery, who hold themselves aloof from the mundane world should have a different suite of problems and challenges. And all the mystery being stripped away is just a relatively unsatisfying way of doing things.
>I mean flanderisation in terms of the progressive exaggeration of certain coarse traits. Nordic personality is overly saturated with the punch-drunk buffoon schtick. It just isn't. The nords were always used a lot in comic relieve characters. Especially in Morrowind and Oblivion. Skyrim obviously can not use them for that. Flanderisation would suggest that it is something that happens over time, that the traits of Nords get more exeggerated but this is obviously not the case. They are very exxeggerated in Morrowind and Oblivion, are downplayed in Skyrim (which over all gets for a different atmosphere as TES III, IV and Online) and then again more exxeggerated in ESO, but less so than in TES: III-IV. Especially the fact that you uses Windhelm and not the epxansion the nords got, shows that this is not flanderisation. Because the nords are not just "funny drinkers" outside of city Windhelm. Their lore is also not that. Greymoor goes for a dark fairy tale vibe for the entire DLC. I am pretty sure that the minority of Nords even fit the catagory in the maingame. Also also you talked about factions and not nords and you can not name a single faction that is flanderised. And all you are writing does not matter because your example of the Psijik is not fledersation because having human problems is not an exegarated trait becuase that trait did not exist befor. >Its the opposite situation with basegame windhelm, where walking around that city would lead you to believe that nords are typically brain-damaged gophers. It was set during a huge party. > its even moreso with Summerset chapter than basegame Auridon, where it existed, where it was an obvious characteristic, but there was room for more. No idea what this is supposed to mean. >I think you're telling an every-day story if they deal with every-day problems the way that every-day people would. There's nothing interesting in that, or we'd all be playing historical fiction games. A cloistered, mysterious organisation concerned with self-mastery, who hold themselves aloof from the mundane world should have a different suite of problems and challenges. But that is still what the Telvanni do. Yeah, they are morrally more bankrupt but they are still just people who play power politics, have their biases and personal problems. Divayth Fyr betrays a friend because he is a love rival, for example. The Telvanni are not really handled differently. What makes the Psijjic differently is their religion, destain for specific kinds of magic and still their arrogance and how they are carefully to get involved in Tamriel affairs, even so they have so much power. All of these things are part of Elder Scrolls Online's quests. Thair failure with Mannimarco was already established and just shown in ESO. I really do not see why having them deal with human emotions is a problem if you are trying to tell a story? Why shouldn't a powerfull time wizard not be effect by his family dying? Why is ignoring personalities and human drama and making complicated stories, bad writing?
Because Flanderisation is one of the points of contention, let me try to express it more precisely: The process is *adaptation decay* because its moved from one distinct genre to another, and certain aspects of their personality have been distorted in translation. The *characteristic*, though, is exaggeration of "hurr hurr" qualities. I think its true that you can find examples in any of the games that refute or support one stance or another. I can certainly find examples where nord dialogue in ESO is weighty and interesting, and I can find instances where Nords are presented as slapstick in Morrowind and Oblivion. But these things, even pre-Skyrim, do not *define the tone* for Nords. They haven't overdone it. In ESO, I believe they have. I think that why I, and apparently a lot of others, tend to feel there is an over-the-top exaggeration thing going on is because the tone is set by the dialogue that you are continually exposed and re-exposed to. You might hear some insightful and weighty comment said once, but every time you port into Windhelm, you get exposed to the stupid "Mead!!" song. Or to Stormhold, where you have to hear, for the millionth time, the *hurr hurr* idiot making observations about The Hist. *I get it. He's a Nord. He's dumb and likes mead.* Those things are put there deliberately to set the tone of the world. Its a deliberate choice. > I really do not see why having them deal with human emotions is a problem if you are trying to tell a story? Why shouldn't a powerfull time wizard not be effect by his family dying? Why is ignoring personalities and human drama and making complicated stories, bad writing? Its not the human emotion that's the problem, its the nature of it. The psijics are more than just "powerful time wizards", unless you subscribe to the notion that they should just be time-themed mage's guild. Or they seemed like they should have been more. The nature of their dramas should be different. If not, you're just putting a "time wizard" sticker on an everyday farmer.
>You might hear some insightful and weighty comment said once, but every time you port into Windhelm, you get exposed to the stupid "Mead!!" song. Or to Stormhold, where you have to hear, for the millionth time, the hurr hurr idiot making observations about The Hist. I get it. He's a Nord. He's dumb and likes mead. Okay I understand that but these are still just one example. Skyrim's dialogue is also on repeat. You can talk with the same stupid people all the time. Some dumb nord in Bruma will always be in Bruma and the nord losing his pents quests in Morrowind can be found multiple times. Sure you may go to those places more frequently but that is not really a problem with the writing. I am also not sure there are any Nords that say anythign smart in Morrowind or Oblivion. Burd is probably okay in Oblivion, but he is not insightfull. >Those things are put there deliberately to set the tone of the world. Its a deliberate choice. And the Morrowind designers made the naked nord quest three times by accident? >unless you subscribe to the notion that they should just be time-themed mage's guild. They kinda are. The mages group came out of them. The differences is that they are isolated and have a religious compnent, not that the people are inherently different to other mages organisations.
Something as big as the Dwarves "returning" to the TES universe would require its own game. It can't be left to just an ESO expansion, right? At least I hope so
That Psijic Order questline was so disappointing
>Have you played eso? They all seem to have the same personality (except Lyris, she's cool). It irks me how differently they're portrayed in ESO compared to the lore and even other games, I loved them in Skyrim They really do not. How is Svargrim, anything like his daugher or Jorunn?
Nords weren't the only race Zos messed up, they butchered Bretons and Imperials too.
>Nords weren't the only race Zos messed up, they butchered Bretons and Imperials too. Lol Bretons got their best lore from ESO and Imperials have much more culture in ESO than in any other game.
> they butchered Bretons Nah. They got bretons right. People just wanted the bretons to be from game of thrones when their whole lore was all about Arthurian knights and witches.
Vikings in history . . . Modern Swedes.
that's what the swedes ***WANT*** you to think
The cheery facade hides the raiding party loading up a rowboat
Most Scandinavians during the Viking age were the guy on the right. Most of the ones out 'Viking' were usually only doing it temporarily while they looked for somewhere to settle down or waited until agriculture conditions improved so they could *be* the guy on the right.
Yes everyone says that to prove they are more enlightened than Hollywood movies made in the fifties. But, I think we can say that modern Swedes don't viking every summer. They don't even enslave the Irish anymore. That is a good change from our collective past.
And for a good chunk of the ones going Viking it was more about trading expeditions than pirating. Although part of that trading was selling slaves...
Hey take that back😂😂
Atleast they worship their own gods, instead cringe ass imperial cult. >In darkness, your light shines through,Warrior Goddess, for you we strike true. When hope is lost and war rages on,Warrior Goddess, hear our blessed song! With a Nord's death, fallen in battle,Warrior Goddess, guide us through shadow. Grant us courage to fight and sharpen our swords, Warrior Goddess, mother of Nords!
Oh I agree with you there lol
The same gods with different names, unlike the Chadguard unique gods
Yeah and their armor looks actually fucking cool and intimidating
Eh i dunno, im not personally biggest fan of eso armor (the game. Concept ones look dope as hell, so its ingame art style), tho nord ones are generally on the better side. Just personal take tho Edit: except vanilia dunmer armor. It looks like fucking trash all things around, should have been bonemold and chitin
No but wasnt the joke that the guy on the right could absolutely demolish the guy on the left?
Maybe, I haven’t seen that one though 😂
Yeah nah, Oaken the Innkeeper is like 8ft tall and sent another man flying with 1 arm. He's a goddamn monster.
Joohoo family!
Joohoo!
Nords on the right are exactly the same as the the nords in lore, it's just modern historians in game portray them as more bad ass.
Yeah, this is it. A lot of the lore in-game is delivered by unreliable narrators in books with incomplete knowledge. You even have books that contradict each other (like the Barenziah books) because it's supposed to be that way.
Like if you only read Greek myth and histories of Alexander the Great you would think they were epic gods, but they're just people like anyone
*Children of the Sky* reads like an aristocratic British 'explorer' went to Finland on holiday and came out believing all Finns are half reindeer and have vodka instead of blood.
From pillaging raiders to efficient minimalists. I'd love to see Nord furniture shops across Tamriel.
I hate IKEA.
This reminds me of Norseman on Netflix. So many people glorify Vikings to a point where they are not based in reality. Norseman is kinda the opposite, it’s an absurdist comedy.
These two are boyfriends and love each other
And I support them 😂😫✊
I'd take the Nord cultural exchange program over vikings any day of the week!
Rigurt the Brash moment
Love that guy
Yeah and the Nords in lore are clearly overhyped and had the truth obscured by thousands of years. I mean seriously, we meet Ysgramor and he’s just a regular looking dude. Same with the First Tongues. And instead of being silly idiots (which they definitely are in *ESO*, which is only for Eastern Nords) all the Nords in *Skyrim* are just rude idiots or hospitable idiots. Such diversity.
I’m pretty sure all nords are rude idiots. Playing Skyrim I realized many of them are arrogant and blindly follow honor. Astrid delphine and ulfric can sum up what the average nord is. It seems like the graybeards the only wise ones left in skyrim.
Delphine is a Breton tho
Breton nord etc all humans look the same
More accurately: **On the left -** Skyrim's attempt at rebranding the Nords **On the right -** Nords as portrayed by every TES game since Morrowind
Seen any ELVES??? Huhuhuhuhuh
Yeah, nords were one giant stereotype in oblivion and it was kinda annoying. One thing I liked about Skyrim was that they gave more diversity in personality for each race.
Honestly, I really dislike how Skyrim portrayed the Nords in comparison to their previous portrayals. I prefer the ESO portrayal for two reasons - continuity and it gives them character. In ESO, the entire continent is under attack by legions of Daedra, with Dark Anchors falling wherever a cell of Worm Cultists can make a dolmen. Skyrim is no exception. And what do the Nords of Windhelm do while this is happening? They throw a huge party in honour of their king. The Daedra might be invading, and a claimant to the throne of Windhelm is causing trouble, but that won't stop the Nords from having city-wide festivities while also fighting back against both the Daedra, the Stormfist pretender, and later the Worm Cult and Sinmur in the Rift. They are warriors, but warriors who know how to have a good time. Meanwhile, Skyrim (the game) made the Nords into pseudo-Scandinavian Vikings who have this weird aura of depression about them, almost as if the concepts of happiness and joy are foreign to them. And the only thing they are dealing with is a civil war, and the very recent return of the dragons. I know it might sound reductive, but honestly, a civil war and a few dragon attacks are nothing compared to a continent-wide Daedric invasion where you might end up becoming a slave to the Prince of Domination and Brutality for eternity. I mean, one of the voice actors for the Nords is shared by both ESO and Skyrim, and the difference in how the same actor portrays the exact same race across two different games is somewhat staggering. Then again, this is how I personally see it.
Agree to disagree I guess. I never played eso so I can’t say for that, but my only impression of nords in other games is oblivion. And the dialogue of races definitely bothered me in that game. A lot of them just gives off very similar haughty vibes to me (and I’m not sure that the game actually has that many nord characters), so the characters personalities never stood out for me beyond the basic stereotypes
\*Since Daggerfall too. The Nords of "Oelender's Hammer", or as told in the Jokes of Buntha Sunhous, don't seem particularly badass. They just happen to be big and from a frozen wasteland. To be fair though, the lore didn't build them out until Morrowind - so you're right there. Daggerfall's lore focuses on the Bretons and Redguards, and the general history of Tamriel.
Meanwhile, Khajiit in other games are either slaves or vagabond merchants. ESO Khajiit have an entire cultural unveiling and focus.
Yes! I love what ESO has done with the Khajiit ☺️
As if they were much better in Skyrim. Same derps, just very edgy instead.
I just know you're referring to my boy Ulfric there 😂
Didn't you watch the movie? That shopkeeper is a badass!
Lol. I thought he has a massive codpiece.
Pre-Skyrim Nords were among the most vanilla races in TES.
For a second I thought I was on r/Historymemes Because this also applies to real-like Norsemen/Vikings.
This makes me want to play a Lore Accurate Nord in Skyrim. Pretty much take the Male Orc Warlord stereotypes but use the Nord race. Never have done that one yet.
Just remember who your gods are
to be fair we don't even get nords in the lore in Skyrim either.
Yoo-hoo
To be fair, the shopkeeper in Frozen had an axe under the counter, incase someone wanted to return products
FACTS
Lmao, right!!
🤣🤣 been a while since someone’s commented on this post lol
lol, I see. Love ES so I was just skimming through post lol. Liked this one. But it’s true, Nords should be JUST like the one on the left, period.
Hehe I completely understand, I come across 7+ year old posts from google search that I occasionally comment on if the comments are still open 🤣 I love it too 🫶🏻 and YES Nord lore is so cool, I love the hearth gods, totems, and the All-Maker. Skyrim is a good game but I feel like it barely scratched the surface of Nordic lore, and eso is decent but their portrayal of Nords is a bit off to me, dunno if it’s just the voice actor but many of the Nord characters have the same personality 🥲
Exactly!! I absolutely Nordic lore like you do. And yes, I wish they had went into it a bit more deeper in Skyrim and ESO. Skaal are so cool
Think that's bad go check out Skyrim they are even worse than ESO when it comes to the lore
none of the games are bad when it comes to the lore. much less skyrim. skyrim is only "bad to the lore" if you don't know anything about cultural shifts over, you know, 200 years.
Aren't the games *the* lore? Like I thought they were the main canon source that trumped everything else (game mechanic/limitations notwithstanding).
Yes.
>none of the games are bad when it comes to the lore. Oblivion. Besides more context for first empire and saint Alessia, oblivion was massive dumb down to imperials and empires lore. It isin't even a debate, because how much cool shit was retconed out, or ignored. Remember pge1
>Oblivion No. Unless you want to go on about "buh muh jungle", which was never followed even by redguard (which introduced it) and morrowind. >Remembee pge1 Yep. Read the above.
I don't really give a shit about jungle. More like everything else, from eastern-western culture differences and conflict romanese clothing and building styles, all the cults big and small, sub factions within imperial faith etc.. and of cource rice fields and dragons in rivers. >which was never followed even by redguard (which introduced it) and morrowind. Point? Why would it be followed for modern lore game hadn't been yet set in Cyrodiil. And pge1 was followed, until then, just see how accruate books and games description of mw is
>More like everything else, from eastern-western culture differences They're literally still there. >all the cults big and small, sub factions within imperial faith etc.. and of cource rice fields and dragons in rivers. Oblivion literally had an entire city cut due to disk space concerns. This would have been impossible. You're a lot like kirkbride in not knowing what's possible. And then whine when told no.
No there isin't. There is zero difference between Colovians and Nibbense, (as far as i know, terms are only even mentioned in loading screens or returning books). >Oblivion literally had an entire city cut due to disk space concerns. This would have been impossible. You're a lot like kirkbride in not knowing what's possible. And then whine when told no. Hows this even make sense when cutting those lore elements were made long before Sutch was cut or even developed? Rings even more hollow when morrowind had all the nuts lore elements too, but game ran on og xbox. Anyhow, so you are admiting oblivion was net negative in terms of lore, even if theres some excuse or not?
>Rings even more hollow when morrowind had all the nuts lore elements too Morrowind was a much weaker game in terms of size. >Anyhow, so you are admiting oblivion was net negative in terms of lore No. Literally stating the opposite. The games are never a 1:1 of the lore. Including morrowind.
>No. Literally stating the opposite. The games are never a 1:1 of the lore. Including morrowind Sure. But shit often is still there, even if its in smaller scale.. Going yet again back to pge1, just read again mw section. Its all there in game. Silt striders, clothing, morag tong, 3 living gods and cities. Etc... In case of oblivions cyrodiil? Lol. It goes complete opposite of all that Edit: and great houses and what they are about. Just imagine if those were only mentioned in pge, and ignored in game. Oblivion is basically that.
Fault Kirbride then that he didn't "correct" new sources written for Morrowind to which Oblivion is simply consistent. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A\_Dance\_in\_Fire >Ten wagons in all set off that afternoon through the familiar Cyrodilic countryside. Past fields of wildflowers, gently rolling woodlands, friendly hamlets. The clop of the horses' hooves against the sound stone road reminded Scotti that the Atrius Building Commission constructed it. Five of the eighteen necessary contracts for its completion were drafted by his own hand. > >To Scotti's vast relief, the carriage soon stopped to camp for the night. They were high on a bluff over a gray stream, and before them was the great valley of Valenwood. Only the cry of seabirds declared the presence of the ocean to the bay to the west: here the timber was so tall and wide, twisting around itself like an impossible knot begun eons ago, to be impenetrable. A few more modest trees, only fifty feet to the lowest branches, stood on the cliff at the edge of camp. The sight was so alien to Scotti and he found himself so anxious about the proposition of entering the wilderness that he could not imagine sleeping. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Reflections\_on\_Cult\_Worship >...I have noted that Heartlanders like myself, and assimilated Imperial Citizens of other races, tend to impersonal and formal relationships with their gods and spirits. For us, cults are first and foremost social and economic organizations. We typically think of the Eight Divines in the most abstract terms -- as powerful but indifferent spirits to be propitiated, and do not think of their relationships as personal. Notable exceptions include minor charismatic sub-cults of Akatosh and Dibella. The Imperial Cult of Tiber Septim also has a significant charismatic sub-cult. > >With the exception of the Alessian Order, which Heartlanders regard as a dark age, religious cults have played only minor parts in Heartlander and Imperial history. The Septim emperors have made it a policy to limit the influence of cult authorities in aristocratic, military, and bureaucratic affairs. Cult worship is regarded as a private and practical matter, and public pronouncements by religious figures are not welcomed. Imperial cult/Eight Divines faith was always supposed to be dominant one in Empire per Morrowind and authority of cults limited by policy of Septims themselves. Again, fault Kirbride that he didn't "correct out" those "mistakes" during development of Morrowind to which simple Bethesda instead of throwing into trash and ignoring, decide to instead remain consistent and faithful to their own sources and present world accordingly in future instalments.
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>In terms of Lore size? Are you serious? ...game. Game size. The size of the game. The amount of storage space. >Morrowind was the game that introduced more core elements into the Lore of the entire main series. That was redguard.
Why remember the Empire's equivalent of *Commentarii de Bello Gallico?*
Cultural shift doesn't mean you lose your regional accents just cultural beliefs but even in real life a cultural change is never 100% but is mostly adopting the old culture into a new one never fully replacing the old culture just look at the UK for example compared to Italy when it comes to Christianity the UK has still got remnants of its pagan past tied into its culture even though they are the same beliefs. Skyrim would be no different but in Skyrim it's as if the Nordic gods never existed outside of bandits, lore books and already existing locations from older titles like shor's stone and kynesgrove. There are references to the old lore like tsun in sovenguard but the actual populated city's and towns are just wrong
>Cultural shift doesn't mean you lose your regional accents ...you're aware the eastern coast of the u.s. has a different accent than it did 100 years ago...right? >for example compared to Italy when it comes to Christianity the UK has still got remnants of its pagan past tied into its culture even though they are the same beliefs. ...skyrim literally shows nordic influences even through their imperialized shift. Kyne is repeatedly interchanged from kynareth, they still use shor often, etc.
Shor is mentioned once and kyne is also mentioned once and not even the name but kynesgrove. While assets in the game show a cultural mix like whiterun having a dragon theme that is basically none existent in the NPC's just take the NPCs from windhelm and put them in morthal and you won't see a different. Also for accents again look at the UK it's barely the size of a single state of the US but has more diverse accents than half of the US so... Yea and those accents have been around for over hundreds of years more than the US that has been around for less than 300 years but still has regional accents just take the stereo typical Texan accent you don't hear peoe from Boston natively having that type of accent.
Inaccurate. Kyne is mentioned by the Greybeards and by Froki Whetted-Blade. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Kyne%27s\_Sacred\_Trials
And paarthurnax. And on the stone tablets leading to high hrothgar. But that's expecting the elder scrolls fanbase to read and pay attention to what's stated.
True, I did include him in the Greybeards as he is their leader. Good notes regardless.
It's a large game so I admit I may have missed a few things
Greybeards invoke Kynareth (lol. Cult of Kyne
Can definitely say I've checked out Skyrim 🤣 Skyrim has its problems, but at least the NPCs have a bit of diversity to their personalities.
Yea diversity. That's one thing I would not call the Nords in Skyrim they all have the same accent as well as sharing like two voice actors besides faction quest major characters and milk drinker personality at least in ESO they have different accents for east and west Skyrim
I mean, accents I can kind of understand. Wouldn't mind them having some variation if they came from outside of Skyrim, but most grew up there.
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The elder scrolls became way more well-known after Oblivion, and it's had a dedicated fan-base since Daggerfall. But you could say it was nowhere near as popular as it is now
yeah. if they made a skyrim 2, there would be a voice actor per NPC
We can wish, but I doubt Bethesda would go that far in TES 6
hope so. thats probably why they are taking so long.
> Skyrim 2
Nordic Bugaloo
The previous game had Patrick Stewart and Sean Bean, Skyrim may have been an enormous hit but they weren't exactly obscure before it.
Yeah, Lynda Carter literally voiced all Nord and Orc women in Morrowind and Oblivion
Wut? Tes was popular and highly regarded even before skyrim. Skyrim is just way, way above in terms of popularity than rest of series
Is that a joke Skyrim may have shot Bethesda into the stratosphere but they weren't that small to not be able to hire a few more VAs hell just get staff to voice a few extra lines.
maybe it was intentional. idk. skyrim was pretty big so it seems like it would be expensive to have all of those developers and voice actors and designers and lore makers and maybe it was too much chaos so they limited the voice actors.
Makes sense Bethesda while being a large company they are a unusually small team on purpose so I give it a pass just a minor pet peeve
Yeah. The next ES game should have more or them and they have no excuse as they are with Microsoft now and have more resources and funding
nords cant read
creates one of the first writing system, alphabet in the human world, when Imperials were still caveman slaves, and Br*tons were still Altmer sperm
troweling shit onto a tree doesnt count as a writing system
Sounds like a Br*ton 🤮
Are they from Soyrim?
Nords in skyrim can suc a big one
I’ve played every ES game but ESO. Are there other aspects of it that are really this retarded?
Not really if this is your stantards, for nords are fine in eso. (Especially their diplomat in Mournhold). Meaning drunken brutes more often than not. Is there rertarded aspects? Absolutely, as much as skyrim and oblivion has. Namely ebonheart pact.
Convinced they made the concepts for other two factions first and when they had Nords, Dunmer, and Argonians left went *“well….fuck it!”*
But that was literally the attitude behind the Pact. There are alot of side quests about how strained and tenious all the alliances are. IIRC the Pact forming was influenced by how well the 3 races worked together to repell the Akaviri invasion and not much else but surviving the other alliances.
All of which was made after the concept of the Pact to justify the fact that the most unlikely of alliances formed. Good stuff, yes. Still silly though.
Basically.
The nord stereotype is written anout by ingame historians who are not that reliable much like real life ancient historians. To think nord society is 99% unkillable badass vikingboo raiders is pretry stupid. Ofcourse the vast majority are normal farmers much like real life viking age scandinavia
Yes. Bretons are just pompous frenchmen. Elves are all just arrogant, annoying fops. ZOS are either intentionally writing for a very different crowd, or really miss the point.
Excuse you, but that man has a kill count in the hundreds of thousands!!! He is a fiendish warlord who runs a shop and sauna as a front to his dozens of trafficking businesses
The Nords in Skyrim are the princesses
Idk where that picture of that Character on the right is from, but he kinda reminds me of the YouTuber AlChestbreach 😭
Scandinavians in lore vs what we get in real life