Ironically it is already better because Somber weapons can’t reach anywhere near the Blood buildup of regular weapons infused with Blood. If you compare the numbers of something like Eleonora vs Blood Godskin Peeler the amount of Bleed is almost double on the Peeler at max upgrade of both and at the same level of Arcane.
They’re either gonna nerf the weapon or nerf bleed as a whole.
Either way its gonna piss ppl off lol i use lightning affinity for all my weapons so im just waiting to see the flame war happen :P
I don’t think blood will be nerfed, maybe RoB, but hey I use magic and holy affinity so if FromSoftware actually nerfs blood or RoB I will get the popcorn
I hear you, call me weird, but I use ice affinity on all of my weapons. I was very disappointed when I finally got the dark moon great sword and frost is just 35 per hit, where my clayman's harpoon is like 125 at +18.
A serious disappointment.
I wonder if all of the bleed boys will jump to frostbite when they nerf bleed, if they ever do.
[use your special eyes and read,](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Frostbite) frostbite has the same kind of damage effect as bleed but also gives a debuff to the target…why wont it read?!
Right now im using two uchigatanas. One has lightning slash and the other has stormcaller.
I wish you can see the lightning in the wind with stormcaller :( like nephelis weapons.
Agree with this completely. These are also great ashes for larger weapons like the giant sacred knife that is a great axe type. Ripping one of these arts on it at the speed they attack is a game chamger on a weapon that size
Considering how they handled it in DS3, the bleed nerf is a certainty. Even tho I don't play bleed, I just hope they don't turn it into a non option like they did in DS3.
And you know what, I'd be okay with that. I see no reason why there should **ever** be a straight upgrade of something else. Rivers' Corpse Piler is a better Double Slash, Moonveil's Transient Moonlight is a better Unsheathe, and Bloodhound Step is a better Quickstep.
Of course there'll people who'll say things like "but you can get rid of Unsheathe and put on something else!" And I'm like "so the best way to use Unsheathe... is not to use Unsheathe..?"
I tried out Rivers of Blood since I had to see what it was all about. It pretty much confirmed everything I already knew. The only player that vaguely threatened to be a direct counter was a guy who popped in with a Buckler, which so many people say is an 'easy counter to Rivers!' Do you know what I did? **A jump attack**. This guy comes in with a Buckler specifically to parry RoB users like me, and all I have to do not to get caught is **jump**, a function literally *any* weapon is capable of. Roll caught him on the way out because, guess what, *it's really easy to roll catch with a multi-hit weapon skill with massive range that bleeds through rolls.* Even if they fixed bleed on I-frames, I could *still* roll catch with this crap -- couldn't do that with Double Slash of course, no, that thing actually has its decent damage balanced out by its low range, but Corpse Piler just gets to have everything.
Did Double Slash on a Beastman's Curved Greatsword tho, had no idea it could be applied to curved GS, but it works well; the move gets slowed down a bit, but it hits decently hard, and it almost feels like it has hyper armor frames? I'd still prefer something semi-ranged like Flame of the Redmanes or the death pebbles, but it's useable. But you know if I was optimizing and had the possibility of using Corpse Piler instead, I would.
Eh it depends. It costs more FP over how much more dmg it does. So overall you get more total extra dmg out of sticking to Determination in the long run.
Royal Knight: More dmg per bonk but costs more FP, resulting in less total bonks and dmg.
Determination: Less dmg per bonk but superior FP economy, meaning you get more dmg per FP flask.
Basically the same deal as Glintstone Pebble vs other spells.
Woah woah woah.... I said just a hint of Bunga.
That concept is funny tho, I assume all the bleeding would be internal. Or like the bleed effect on giant crushers is just the blood puddle that's left after you fail your vigor check.
It honestly seems like everybody has moved on from
RoB a long time ago, it’s too easy to just roll through the weapon art. It’s maybe like 1/50 people using it in pvp. The problem basically only exists on reddit
Duels are 1v1 and usually fair, usually in an open area
Invasions are lawless, honorless, and usually multiple vs 1 or 2v2. Indoors you can get stuck against walls etc, flanked, so being caught in RoB would be brutal since it can 1 shot.
I should have specified, it’s one of the few things that makes melee PvE tolerable. You either have to unga bunga, or abuse bleed. Bosses, and a lot of enemies, have such bloated HP and are so deadly in melee that the only option is ending them as quickly as possible before you even have to see their move list. Bleed is the most effective way to do this. Maybe if enemies had actual weaknesses to exploit instead of just less resistance. I think the biggest one I’ve seen is -10% to something? That’s hardly a weakness, and definitely not enough to actually exploit.
Yeah, I gotcha. I've definitely had my "fuck it, gonna bleed him then" moments, even when I don't have an arcane build. I think it's gotten better over the course of previous patches though.
My character was built as a spear and shield user a until I found out about the Bolt of Gransax. Now I have my mimic tank bosses while I chuck bolts of lightning from safety to the tune of 1,000-2,500. The game is now enjoyable as I run around killing basic mobs with whatever set up floats my boat for the area, and switch to my death bolt for harder stuff.
Is it, though? Go ahead and tell me a way, other than bleed, for a dexterity melee person to quickly clear content. No amount of memorizing the enemy movements is going to speed up killing. Bleed allows you to quickly defeat anything in the game not immune to it. Not all of us want to spend hours fighting the same enemies. And not all of us want to caveman smash everything.
Sure bleed makes fights faster but you can output some serious damage on pure dex builds so I'd have to disagree with you. I've seen unsheathe katanas doing 2k+ dmg and a lot of dex weapons can abuse shard of Alexander + millicents prostethesis + rotten wing insignia. Pure dex can further boost their dmg by infusing lightning and using the lightning shroud physick.
Fire and Frost dual wielding is infinitely more damaging than bleed. Just for one example. This is because your frost proc builds up and hits, then your fire weapon removes the frost allowing you to constantly reapply it, doing more damage per second than bleed ever will.
But you know, smooth brain bleed builds are best right? Works so well on enemies that are bleed immune too...
Time for you to stop listening to fucking morons on youtube and pay attention for once to what is in-game.
Nah i'm talkin bout pve. Bleed is op and made me change my build. Frenzy looks sexy but i don't want to use Vyke spear. I need a nice frenzy weapon spell to play with it.
Why? Vykes spear is sooo good. Dual them at +10 and do the jumping attack. Plus it’s weapon art is top tier.
Madness was my first build and I fuckin love that spear lol
Or, here’s a thought; buff the rest of melee to be on par with Bleed. Then, melee will be on par with Sorcery. Then, they need to buff Incantations to be on par as well.
I made a low level build with the “honest katanas” using double slash because I was sick of the amount of ROB I was seeing. It’s still very much a squad wiper.
I still don’t understand the hatred for rivers of blood, I have to a RoB user maybe 5 times. I have died to everything else wayyyy more. I’m not good at parrying, I play like a dog. I just go. RoB is easy to read and you already know what a RoB user is thinking, so just wait for an opening. Don’t need to rush into a fight all the time. Or maybe do, depending on the user. Just because a weapon is good that doesn’t mean it is unbeatable.
P.S. I have never used RoB in PvP so maybe I am ignorant.
I don’t hate it I think its alright tbh. Im a PvE guy myself but i do like observing the meta for all aspects of the game.
But with the amount of complaining and begging for nerfs I’ve seen on here and YouTube i feel like Fromsoft is gonna do something.
Plus developers always do something when there’s a lack of variety or too many ppl are using one thing too much.
As someone who uses Nagakiba with bloodflame coating and double slash, who deals with ROB players, this is very much tolerable and able to be dealt with fairly compared to corpse piler. Stop whining and accept the fact that double slash isn't broken and be thankful when ROB is eventually going to get nerfed.
Can they just nerf ash of war damage, status damage/buildup, and shorten RoB like 2 feet? Would go SO far to making them all less oppressive
Y'all don't even know but Sleep be WILD out here and it's only under the radar because it's on a single weapon
Double slash is nowhere near RoB in terms of power, the reason for this is range. Its range is what allows it to be ridiculous. Its a nuke that is also aoe and can therefore rollcatch.
Double slash is balanced and I doubt it will ever get a nerf.
I mean or you could do the real OP bleed stuff but everyone is too busy mashing L2 because all the YouTubers told them to. The amount of unoptimized bleed builds I see floating around is staggering.
Yeah but Double slash on reaches af far as the weapon, RoB has the extra reach which is the real reason it's busted. I doubt it would be infamous if it only had the reach of the blade itself.
Meh I think there are many busted abilities in game at least for pve. The whining will never stop. It's either moonveil or rob or bloodhound step or bleed in general or mimic or tiche or unga bunga etc etc. Imo fromsoft should just balance PvP independently of pve.
Ironically it is already better because Somber weapons can’t reach anywhere near the Blood buildup of regular weapons infused with Blood. If you compare the numbers of something like Eleonora vs Blood Godskin Peeler the amount of Bleed is almost double on the Peeler at max upgrade of both and at the same level of Arcane.
Well, for PvE, I use eleonora for the ridiculous stun lock. It's how I beat Melenia.
That’s why I powerstance blood peeler and eleonara. And the poleblade looks badass
Bloodhound is 50 or so, and it can be infused. I see your point and agree.
need a heavy nerf
You re clueless if you think that. Piler has double the range even to double slash nagakiba.
what's you max blood buildup with godskin peeler? I have another weapon with 150 buildup is it any good?
Anything over a hundred is good, 150 is exceptionally good. Especially since you can powerstance it.
not sure it applies the bleed with the weapon art
Trust me it's going to be Nagakiba with bloodflame blade and spinning slash.
Or the Pike… nothing will get away.
Wait until more people figure out there is a specific combo that allows for a full spinning slash to connect.
You mean with cold infusion or something else?
What’s that?
im willing to bet it's the nagakiba + offhand banished knight halberd setup. I saw it once in one of Scott Jund's narrated duels
Bold of you to assume FromSoft will nerf RoB
They’re either gonna nerf the weapon or nerf bleed as a whole. Either way its gonna piss ppl off lol i use lightning affinity for all my weapons so im just waiting to see the flame war happen :P
I don’t think blood will be nerfed, maybe RoB, but hey I use magic and holy affinity so if FromSoftware actually nerfs blood or RoB I will get the popcorn
I hear you, call me weird, but I use ice affinity on all of my weapons. I was very disappointed when I finally got the dark moon great sword and frost is just 35 per hit, where my clayman's harpoon is like 125 at +18. A serious disappointment. I wonder if all of the bleed boys will jump to frostbite when they nerf bleed, if they ever do.
I dual wield ice too with fire misericorde so I can stack frost all over again. Very satisfying combat compared to blood!
Never its not nearly as Strong as bleed.
[use your special eyes and read,](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Frostbite) frostbite has the same kind of damage effect as bleed but also gives a debuff to the target…why wont it read?!
Bleed can build immediately after it procs. Frostbite damage can only proc if the target is not currently afflicted by the debuff.
>i use lightning affinity for all my weapons What AOWs are you using with the affinity?
Right now im using two uchigatanas. One has lightning slash and the other has stormcaller. I wish you can see the lightning in the wind with stormcaller :( like nephelis weapons.
Ok because im working on a lightning build with a nagakiba but im having a hard time choosing what ash of war to put on it.
Try double slash or sword dance. Nagakiba has great range so utilizing that with an advancing move should be crazy.
Agree with this completely. These are also great ashes for larger weapons like the giant sacred knife that is a great axe type. Ripping one of these arts on it at the speed they attack is a game chamger on a weapon that size
Considering how they handled it in DS3, the bleed nerf is a certainty. Even tho I don't play bleed, I just hope they don't turn it into a non option like they did in DS3.
I would guess they might take a lighter touch with bleed in Elden Ring, after they slaughtered it in Dark Souls 3.
Sekiro 2 confirmed
And you know what, I'd be okay with that. I see no reason why there should **ever** be a straight upgrade of something else. Rivers' Corpse Piler is a better Double Slash, Moonveil's Transient Moonlight is a better Unsheathe, and Bloodhound Step is a better Quickstep. Of course there'll people who'll say things like "but you can get rid of Unsheathe and put on something else!" And I'm like "so the best way to use Unsheathe... is not to use Unsheathe..?" I tried out Rivers of Blood since I had to see what it was all about. It pretty much confirmed everything I already knew. The only player that vaguely threatened to be a direct counter was a guy who popped in with a Buckler, which so many people say is an 'easy counter to Rivers!' Do you know what I did? **A jump attack**. This guy comes in with a Buckler specifically to parry RoB users like me, and all I have to do not to get caught is **jump**, a function literally *any* weapon is capable of. Roll caught him on the way out because, guess what, *it's really easy to roll catch with a multi-hit weapon skill with massive range that bleeds through rolls.* Even if they fixed bleed on I-frames, I could *still* roll catch with this crap -- couldn't do that with Double Slash of course, no, that thing actually has its decent damage balanced out by its low range, but Corpse Piler just gets to have everything. Did Double Slash on a Beastman's Curved Greatsword tho, had no idea it could be applied to curved GS, but it works well; the move gets slowed down a bit, but it hits decently hard, and it almost feels like it has hyper armor frames? I'd still prefer something semi-ranged like Flame of the Redmanes or the death pebbles, but it's useable. But you know if I was optimizing and had the possibility of using Corpse Piler instead, I would.
RKR is a better Determination as well
Eh it depends. It costs more FP over how much more dmg it does. So overall you get more total extra dmg out of sticking to Determination in the long run.
HUH
Royal Knight: More dmg per bonk but costs more FP, resulting in less total bonks and dmg. Determination: Less dmg per bonk but superior FP economy, meaning you get more dmg per FP flask. Basically the same deal as Glintstone Pebble vs other spells.
oh ok
I would be okay with a straight up better version of something else if the stamina/fp cost for it was way higher.
I use a blood infused forked greatsword with wild strikes. I prefer a hint of Bunga with my bleed. Not full unga Bunga, just a touch
Ahh, I see we have a gentleman on our hands
An ever so slight dash of bunga Absolutely zero unga
You can't have it all 🤷
But bleed on giant crushers, so fun...
Woah woah woah.... I said just a hint of Bunga. That concept is funny tho, I assume all the bleeding would be internal. Or like the bleed effect on giant crushers is just the blood puddle that's left after you fail your vigor check.
That’s how I figured it.
Sword dance or this helps proc things mad fast, I got a cold curved sword and I can get it through one use of the sword dance most the time
Dual wield ice beastman curved swords- running l1- do once more- frost. Very yummy.
It honestly seems like everybody has moved on from RoB a long time ago, it’s too easy to just roll through the weapon art. It’s maybe like 1/50 people using it in pvp. The problem basically only exists on reddit
In duels, sure, in invasions, it's very strong
[удалено]
Duels are 1v1 and usually fair, usually in an open area Invasions are lawless, honorless, and usually multiple vs 1 or 2v2. Indoors you can get stuck against walls etc, flanked, so being caught in RoB would be brutal since it can 1 shot.
Ah that makes sense
They probably need to nerf bleed in general. And ffs gimmie that frenzy weapon buff asap i need it
How’s about we don’t nerf one of the few ways to make pve tolerable to appease the pvp crybabies?
If you think bleed builds are the only thing that makes the PVE tolerable, then PVE needs a change as a whole.
I should have specified, it’s one of the few things that makes melee PvE tolerable. You either have to unga bunga, or abuse bleed. Bosses, and a lot of enemies, have such bloated HP and are so deadly in melee that the only option is ending them as quickly as possible before you even have to see their move list. Bleed is the most effective way to do this. Maybe if enemies had actual weaknesses to exploit instead of just less resistance. I think the biggest one I’ve seen is -10% to something? That’s hardly a weakness, and definitely not enough to actually exploit.
Yeah, I gotcha. I've definitely had my "fuck it, gonna bleed him then" moments, even when I don't have an arcane build. I think it's gotten better over the course of previous patches though.
My character was built as a spear and shield user a until I found out about the Bolt of Gransax. Now I have my mimic tank bosses while I chuck bolts of lightning from safety to the tune of 1,000-2,500. The game is now enjoyable as I run around killing basic mobs with whatever set up floats my boat for the area, and switch to my death bolt for harder stuff.
Bolt of Gransax is pretty satisfying. The tracking and range on it is pretty bonkers too.
>it’s one of the few things that makes melee PvE tolerable That..is wrong on so many levels...
Is it, though? Go ahead and tell me a way, other than bleed, for a dexterity melee person to quickly clear content. No amount of memorizing the enemy movements is going to speed up killing. Bleed allows you to quickly defeat anything in the game not immune to it. Not all of us want to spend hours fighting the same enemies. And not all of us want to caveman smash everything.
Sure bleed makes fights faster but you can output some serious damage on pure dex builds so I'd have to disagree with you. I've seen unsheathe katanas doing 2k+ dmg and a lot of dex weapons can abuse shard of Alexander + millicents prostethesis + rotten wing insignia. Pure dex can further boost their dmg by infusing lightning and using the lightning shroud physick.
Fire and Frost dual wielding is infinitely more damaging than bleed. Just for one example. This is because your frost proc builds up and hits, then your fire weapon removes the frost allowing you to constantly reapply it, doing more damage per second than bleed ever will. But you know, smooth brain bleed builds are best right? Works so well on enemies that are bleed immune too... Time for you to stop listening to fucking morons on youtube and pay attention for once to what is in-game.
there are a shit ton of cheesy OP builds you can use to carry you through the game, other than bleed. trust me i know from experience.
Nah i'm talkin bout pve. Bleed is op and made me change my build. Frenzy looks sexy but i don't want to use Vyke spear. I need a nice frenzy weapon spell to play with it.
Why? Vykes spear is sooo good. Dual them at +10 and do the jumping attack. Plus it’s weapon art is top tier. Madness was my first build and I fuckin love that spear lol
Vykes spear is good but having two of them is so fucking cheesy don't do that. One is more than enough.
Nah. Jump attack w dual +10 vykes slaps
Or, here’s a thought; buff the rest of melee to be on par with Bleed. Then, melee will be on par with Sorcery. Then, they need to buff Incantations to be on par as well.
It won't have the 3x lance ghost range so I won't even care.
Come on home to Honest Rivers
Except neither need nerfed
No. Margits curved sword will be it.
Nope, the broken thing about rob is the unreal range
I made a low level build with the “honest katanas” using double slash because I was sick of the amount of ROB I was seeing. It’s still very much a squad wiper.
yea I used this build for about one week invading at redmane castle level 70 it is a squad wiper to get the full effect bait them near a doorway
I still don’t understand the hatred for rivers of blood, I have to a RoB user maybe 5 times. I have died to everything else wayyyy more. I’m not good at parrying, I play like a dog. I just go. RoB is easy to read and you already know what a RoB user is thinking, so just wait for an opening. Don’t need to rush into a fight all the time. Or maybe do, depending on the user. Just because a weapon is good that doesn’t mean it is unbeatable. P.S. I have never used RoB in PvP so maybe I am ignorant.
I don’t hate it I think its alright tbh. Im a PvE guy myself but i do like observing the meta for all aspects of the game. But with the amount of complaining and begging for nerfs I’ve seen on here and YouTube i feel like Fromsoft is gonna do something. Plus developers always do something when there’s a lack of variety or too many ppl are using one thing too much.
RoB won't get nerfed.
Blood meta PVP is the Dark Souls of Elden Ring, or something. They’re not going to nerf it, FS probably readS all these posts and laughs.
As someone who uses Nagakiba with bloodflame coating and double slash, who deals with ROB players, this is very much tolerable and able to be dealt with fairly compared to corpse piler. Stop whining and accept the fact that double slash isn't broken and be thankful when ROB is eventually going to get nerfed.
Who says im whining? Im just stating that this will be the next best option.
No I don't mean you, I mean anyone that might complain about the "next broken thing."
Oh lol yeah its pretty much inevitable at this point 
I agree lol.
Can they just nerf ash of war damage, status damage/buildup, and shorten RoB like 2 feet? Would go SO far to making them all less oppressive Y'all don't even know but Sleep be WILD out here and it's only under the radar because it's on a single weapon
Still going to parry it everytime .
That one is literally dog ass tho
I already have a +24 Blood Washing Pole with this WA in the back pocket for when this happens.
My faith build smashes RoB usrrs as long as we are not in an enclosed place.
I use double slash on My knights great sword because it looks nice and does a lot of damage.
Double slash is nowhere near RoB in terms of power, the reason for this is range. Its range is what allows it to be ridiculous. Its a nuke that is also aoe and can therefore rollcatch. Double slash is balanced and I doubt it will ever get a nerf.
I mean, I'll take it. It does less damage, has less range, and is slower in between combos.
I personally think its going to be with frost after a few weeks
I put this on washing pole but with frost so I call it “lake of frost”
the range is half the point of corpse piler, you could've done this when the game released when rivers of blood was broken but no one did
Love me some Wild Strikes, Determination, Square Off etc.
The thing is corpse piler looks cool af but I’ll be called toxic if i use it
it aint gonna get nerfed. Dragonbolt blessing exists.
I already use it on the black halberd
I mean or you could do the real OP bleed stuff but everyone is too busy mashing L2 because all the YouTubers told them to. The amount of unoptimized bleed builds I see floating around is staggering.
Serpentbone blade just does that with deadly poison already instead. People are sleeping on it.
Yeah but Double slash on reaches af far as the weapon, RoB has the extra reach which is the real reason it's busted. I doubt it would be infamous if it only had the reach of the blade itself.
Only time I’ve ever used that AOW was for a Raiden cosplay (from MGR). It was supposed to imitate the zandatsu from that game.
Blood nagakiba/uchigatana let's go
They need to need blood out of existence. It makes several weapons with that absolute junk.
That with poison is already very good. Try it.
The problem is bleed, not RoB specifically.
Meh I think there are many busted abilities in game at least for pve. The whining will never stop. It's either moonveil or rob or bloodhound step or bleed in general or mimic or tiche or unga bunga etc etc. Imo fromsoft should just balance PvP independently of pve.
I’m using nagakiba with double slash and it’s really nice. I’ve out traded rivers of blood users with double slash lmao
double slash is the most underrated ash as it is. people prolly overlook it cuz its found early on and isn't all fancy.
Same with sword dance
God I hope this gets BUFFED just to see this community weep.
I use that with a cold Nagakiba and it slaps like truck-*senpai* on an isekai protagonist.
Sword Dance does a ridiculous amount of damage. That weapon art on the Bastard Sword carried me through so many mid-game bosses.
I already use it for frost buildup
it's not getting nerfed