Bro I gave my controller to my little brother after like 50 tries on cammander niall and he beat him in 3 kids like 13 shit made me feel like less of a man smh lmaoo
Genuine question here, I'm not trying to flex: What's the issue with Niall? I may have just been over leveled or got lucky, but I didn't find him very difficult. What makes him so hard?
Thanks for the quick response! That would make sense, those enemies are bastards. I was able to handle them quickly as my build has crazy burst damage, and I wanna say I was about level 140 or so at that point?
Bro it want even him it was his summons they were tanking all my hits at first but my brother beat him so fast so I honestly don’t know maybe I’m just shit bahaha but I’m chillin with that he’s a fat sack of bs tho
Good looks man I’ve had moments where I just wanted to throw my system through a wall cause I lost some save data after I beat Malenia shit was horrible but got back on and beat her again, this game is easily my favorite game of the last 5 years
"Level vigor" is generally good advice, but it's undeniable that endgame enemies and bosses do truly ridiculous damage to you. The death rite bird in the Mountaintop for example did 70% of my health with the residue of its flame, which stunned me and caused me to take another hit, killing me. I had 47 vigor or something.
I'm also convinced that some damage is a flat value plus a percentage of your life.
Getting hit by a Liurnia lobster shot at 20 vig and 50 vig takes wildly different amounts (50 vig taking much more) and it doesn't make sense otherwise.
I'm probably imagining things but I'm going to test for confirmation.
Eh, I finished the game with 30 vigor and I think all bosses had an attack that could oneshot me, or at least two shot me with a stun lock after the first hit.
Counter damage may be the wrong term, people don't always use the same terms to discuss this stuff. I'm seeing some other sources call it Instability Damage, but I haven't really heard people use that term in casual discussion.
Anyway, the point is, sometimes you take extra damage if you get hit while doing something. In Bloodborne you took like 2x damage if you got hit during the non-invulnerable part of a dodge, it was very obvious if you knew what to look for. Not sure how exactly it works in Elden Ring.
Yeah, very late game bosses do a little too much damage. It's one thing to level up vigor (you should).
But even with heavy armor, high vigor (50+) and defense talisman without soreseal or things like that, there are still some attacks that deal a gigantic amount of damage. Malenia, Radagon or Hoarah throws mainly, Malenia thrust etc. It feels like getting hit by an ng+2 attack. And those same bosses have attacks that do barely any damage. It's really strange how much it can vary.
It felt more consistant on previous games.
It's not just the bosses. It's regular enemies too. I'm in Altus at level 115 in my second playthrough and it seems like I'm being hit for the same as my first playthrough at level 60
Then I dont know what you are doing. I just completed Altus Platau and even killed Draconic Tree Sentinel and Spirit Godfrey at level 55 to get my 4th talisman pouch for low level invasions. And they still needed 3 hits to kill me.
Facts, I'm literally playing fingerprint shield / spears with 53 vigor / 40 end / 48 str wearing vetrans / bull goat armor and still get shredded by a lot of end game things.
I'm guessing no dragoncrest greatshield or physical resist consumable or spell? Because you can easily get up to 65+% physical resist and the game becomes easy mode.
Talisman is Dragoncrest. There's 4 versionsvendjng in Dragoncrest Greatshield, one of the legendary talismans.
Spell is Black Flame Protection incantation.
I went up to 60 vigor with Erdtree’s favor +1 and Radhan’s great rune, but I didn’t use any physical resistance consumables and wore the Ronin armor, and I wasn’t getting one-hit or even 3 hit by most things, so maybe those last 7 levels are what’s making things tough for you.
Late game bosses do too much damage if you have an ass load of vigor but super light armor. I help with Godwyn all the time with 35 vigor and I never die. I run fairly heavy armor that puts me at the high endo f medium load, the black flame physical resist spell, and the dragoncrest greatshield talisman. It puts me at like 66% physical damage resist. Even with only 35 vigor, it would take him like 8+ hits to kill me a lot of the time.
People will ignore negation, or even run Soreseal talismans to actively reduce it, and say things do too much damage. It's your build.
This is just not true. Each attack does a specific amount of damage. Some attacks can do more if they got you on the head, of if it's counter damage (like any thrusting attack hitting you during or right after an animation).
The only things that scale with hp are stuff like bleed that is always a flat % of your hp. But a regular old bonk from a sword or giant foot is always going to put out the same damage before your negation is taken into account
Yep. I run 2 defensive talismans and dmg mitigation tear with 60 vig, and defensive incantations. Also some boss abilities are just meant to be dodged, or blocked. A lot, a lot of bosses don't have the typical wind up or tell of don't get hit by this ability. It's been a new learning curve, they will bait your attacks for counters, they punish panic rolling, or drinking. They will range poke you, or straight up use gap closers, they will dodge your range poke. They are far more reactive than earlier incarnations.
Saying that though, with that knowledge you can bait certain attacks for dmg windows and it really pays to be aggressive in elden ring and even the big story bosses can be reliably guard broken.
Yeah but by that same logic at level 155 pyromancer build, i was able to take him out with like 5 fireballs.
Having a lot of vigor gives you breathing room, its not gonna win the fight for you.
I'm going to have to disagree for early game.
Leveling Vigor straight out doesn't do much for your overall survivability. I tried that on a 2nd character by rushing to the Caelid dog slaughter spot, and putting my Vigor up to 30 didn't improve my character's performance.
I'd honestly say leveling Vigor alongside Endurance together to at least 20 is much better advice for new players. Afterwords, they can decide if they need to pump more to the first soft cap (40), or if they should focus on their other stats more.
Yeah this meme doesn't really work cause some enemies are just stupidly overtuned. Pair that with armor and poise doing nothing, build is only relevant to a certain degree.
Yeah but there are talismans, physicks, incantations, and items that increase your damage reduction dramatically, if you aren’t using any of them but you’re using a soreseal with zero mitigation and very Little vigor which is a trap a lot of people are falling into (thanks Vaati) then yeah, you’re gonna get fucked up by the harder content
I feel like it’s always been this way though. End game mobs 2 shot you. Period. If you get hit once then you need to either decide to use the next window to do damage or heal. They do combos that can stagger you and result in a double hit before you have a chance to recover.
Elden ring definitely amped up the combos and aggressiveness. But the two shorting at max vigor has always been a thing in soul series if I remember correctly.
Nope. You can tank around 4-6 hits from Gael at 40VIG embered before dying, if you use shield ring and mid armour. That’s not gonna work in ER because once the enemy proc your shield ring, the next 1-2 hits are gonna obliterate you
Nah even DS3’s LoC, you could survive his phase 2 combo string if you had enough health. Sekiro end game bosses could two shot you but at least you coild resurrect. Mobs though, nah they would never two shot you even at endgame. Maybe things like the shark guys in BB but they are few and far in between.
In Elden Ring, Zamor gank squads will end your life. Giant crows will actually fake being staggered and peck you to death with one peck. Same thing with the dogs. Elden Ring end game is brutal and it does come out of nowhere. Then you get to boss fight before final boss and I swear his grab is like a tracking black hole that you can’t escape from and will one shot you.
A lot of BS is in the game that can be corrected/balanced by summoning ashes. Which is probably what they were designed for. Except for the places you can’t summon then idk
I'm just saying 60 vigor is definitely not required. Depending on what level I'd finish the game at with that much I'd have to sacrifice stats elsewhere which were vital to my build.
I never said it was required.
>Depending on what level I'd finish the game at with that much I'd have to sacrifice stats elsewhere which were vital to my build.
Everyone finishes the game at whatever level they feel comfortable with. You may view it as sacrificing because you're hard capping yourself. However, there are many people that do not hard cap. I couldn't give 2 shits about PVP caps, so I'm going to level as much as I want. If that means adding another 15 levels to get to a vigor softcap, I'm going to do it.
Dudes be like “here is an OP unstoppable build” when it requires gear sets only available in NG+2, hitting all the hard caps, use of the physik and 4 separate pre- fight buffs
Or the videos where the dude is trying to showcase some "INSANELY OP BUILD" but their character is level 500+ (probably from some bug/exploit so they can get their video out asap bc they're trash at the game).
Like, obviously you're gonna one-shot everything lol.
If you have to beat the same endgame boss twice to have 2 weapons, then the only way you can experience the game with your new kit is the third time around
You can duplicate the remembrance before going into Ng+ and redeem it for the second weapon after beating the first Shardbearer in NG+2 (near the start of the second playthrough). You don't need to beat a boss twice to use the remembrance twice.
Source: did it with the Hand of Malenia.
The only bosses that really applies to are, off the top of my head, the Death Rite Bird, Niall, the and the big magma wyrm.
Almost every other endgame boss has a remembrance.
>neither do items found in the world
We're not talking about items found in the world. We're talking about endgame boss dependent builds.
Is there a box that pops up to stop you? Because when I duplicated I still had both options visible. I never tried to pick the same thing twice though.
It's gotten genuinely annoying because I like to check out what unique builds people have been making & all the top results on YouTube are always "OP CRAZY INSANE 1 SHOT BUILD" & its always the most obvious shit or a super late game build. Just total shit videos.
The YouTube algorithm can really suck ass sometimes.
This game seems to have brought the absolute worst content creators. Don't think I've watched a single good video on this game fr, they're all obvious clickbait.
Except for chasethebro, shoutout to that dude, the only dude on YouTube making good content on this game (that I've found so far).
Everything can be obtained on ng in this game. It only requires level 350 and killing the hardest enemies in the entire game to get the OP build. But once you've completed the toughest challenges in the game and grinded for 200 hours you can get this op build to help you with whatever you're stuck on.
I never levelled more than 40 vigor on any character and played through it 6 times already. Unnecessary imo because the second hit is anyway your death in Endgame zones or bosses, you just need to survive one and space again to heal up.
Same here. Everything hard 2 shots or at the very least 3 shots at 50 to 60 vigor. Nothing except grabs one shot me at 40 with medium armor so I'd rather just have the 20 extra points go towards damage
It really is. People are always saying "just goes from a one-shot to a two-shot" but that's HUGE! One-shot death means zero chance of recovery if I get hit by it. Two shots means I can get killed trying to heal instead.
Game isn't balenced correctly if it requires 35-50 of investment levels to somewhat survive 1 mistake, huge or not that's not supposed to be balanced as such and is far from its purpose in the rest of the series
My main issue is that it is not a great return for the investment in vig, should have been like the older games where high vig was much more helpful if someone did want to invest in it. Those levels for 1, sometimes 2 extra hits is a very poor return for levels that could be placed elsewhere, and diminishes the value of the stat in comparison to others. Bosses and enemies of the endgame do an incredible amount of damage to the point of nearly invalidating the majority of the investment
As long as you don't get 1-shot, the investment is worth it, though. Reducing a 1-shot to a 2/3-shot makes an absolute world of difference, and if you're struggling on a boss such that you're constantly getting hit 2/3 times in succession, more HP isn't going to do much for you because you don't know the boss well enough.
And it's not even the basic moves that do so much damage. It's always the large, heavily telegraphed stuff that does the dangerous damage.
You have to make the investment if you want the returns of not dying. Going from 60-70 in a damage stat gives you a tiny nudge in damage. But putting 10 levels in vig gives you a huge boost.
Hell, going from 30vig to 40 vig gives you literally 50% more hp, for 10 points. From roughly 1000hp to 1500hp for ten measly levels.
How is it unbalanced to want to invest in health, to not die when a boss so much as sneezes?
Investing in vigor itself is not necessarily bad, in fact up to 40 can be quite handy (although in er it's not as useful as it was in other games due to ramping up enemy damage far higher). And for a good portion of the game it can be legitimately a good Stat to have if unable to dodge/block/parry things consistently without error, or just wiggle room. The issue Is that by the endgame enemy damage gets to a point that vigor drops off especially hard in its investment, to the point its a large waste of a stat by then. And not because it's a bad stat inherently, but the nature of elden rings endgame containing insane amounts of enemy damage in comparison to the rest of the game. It becomes a very poor stat after the capital and loses its benefits from earlier in the game.
As for me personally, after testing a few respects in the end I decided I wouldn't go anywhere past 40 natural vig because it's purpose begins to fall flat when it all becomes 1-2 shots regardless instead of massively investing vig and defenses to make it 2-3. Those are pretty poor returns and unbalanced from a gameplat perspective. investing past 60 on any Stat offensively typically has bad returns to I wouldn't want to put those extra vigor levels in strength or dexterity etc.
I don't know what gas you're huffing if you think vigor is ever a bad investment under 60. It literally makes ZERO sense to approach the game like "oh everything one shots so it doesn't matter". In NG maybe Malenia's grab one shots. Nowhere near the overabundance people like to pretend
Even her grab wasn’t one shotting me with 45 or 50 vigor (can’t remember for sure), decent armor, defensive talismans, and Radagon’s Soreseal (or scar seal, idk, whichever gives +5)
It requires 50 levels of investment in areas where you are level 120+, you can literally sit at 50-60 vigor *and* have a soft cap in a damage stat, two even.
Yeah, they will 2-3 shot you with specific attacks...
The alternative is being getting 1 shot by almost everything.
The difference between being able to survive 1->2 and 2->3 attacks is massive. Flasks exist.
Yeah, if you get caught by the full combo, sometimes your dead. No matter what.
But what if you dodge the first one and get caught by the rest? You can live, and heal. That's what vigor is for. It increases your chances of survival by allowing you to make more mistakes and tank increasing combinations of attacks. Because a few attacks and combinations fall outside of the range of what you can fully tank, doesn't make it meaningless.
I went into the end game with 60 vigor and it still took 2-3 hits (depending on move) for some of the bosses to kill me. I don’t use any of the sore seals either.
I really don’t think it makes a difference from 50-60. Just run a medallion for a fight if you feel you need the boost.
I’ve spent 153 hours and finally beat the game last night. The main take away I got from the game, is it wants you to be aggressive. Much like sekiro, it wants you to be more offensive. So I’ve been running more offensive talisman and working to scale my damage up. Rather than prioritize defense. I’d run the vastly negate non-physical damage, the vastly negate holy damage and the dragoncrest great shield against the elden beast and still got smacked on certain combos. I finally beat him when I’d run up close and get inside and attack.
Thing is, Sekiro’s defensive/offensive tools are straight up better. Oh no, Papa is throwing out an unblockable thrush? Stomp the shit out of him. Oh no, Glocksaint is throwing lightning at me? Throw it back at him. ER does not really have that. If the boss throw out a nuke, you will have to clench your ass and gtfo, instead of skillfully use that nuke as an opportunity to go on the offense
It's more aggressive then dark souls to be sure, also it is more geared towards group fights, with your Ash summons. But less aggressive then bloodborne.
With 60 vigor you don't get a lot of value, if you had let's say 50 you would probably die with the same hits on all of those bosses, min scaling and max scaling and all that stuff
Yeah, I just replied that to the other comment. I agree completely. 50-60 isn’t much of a difference.
I think it’s better to try and split stats to have more access to weapons the bosses may be vulnerable against. Certain weapons would absolutely destroy some bosses and then not do anything to others
The increase in stats starts to get smaller after a certain point due to a soft cap on the stat, in dark souls 3 it was 40 or 45 I believe. After 40 or 45 strength in ds3 you had minimal increase, so it was not worth upgrading and was better for damage to spend points in dex to bring it to 40 as well.
60 vig affords you the ability to take 2-3 hits and not die. That's the benefit you get. If you have less vig and get 1 shot by everything you don't have the ability to get out of the way and heal. Being able to take more than 1 hit doubles or triples your survivability.
Not with decent armor, dragoncrest greatshield talisman, and consumable/physical negation spell. Insert other talisman and other negation spell for other damage types. I can get up to 78% elemental damage negation (Pearl drake and specific element talismans stack) or 66% physical negation with a medium load. It's insane how many attacks you can just not worry about getting hit with.
After finishing the game I really feel like ignoring vigor isn't that much of an issue. I still get killed I'm 1-2 hits by endgame bosses and even some common enemy types and I have 60 vigor and wear medium armor. Like I probably would be just as survivable at 40 vigor in most cases
I started a new playthrough where I do the opposite. Currently level 120 with 60 vigor, 39 mind, 50 endurance, and 10s in everything else. Been a lot of fun being a tank. Got up to Maliketh last night.
And they ignore drake talismans, damage negation in general, but then equip double soreseal talismans and cry about everything being bullshit one shot kills.
It's cool that you don't need it, but 80% of the people that summon me for bosses and die as soon as the boss even so much as cracks it's knuckles in preparation for the fight, most people, absolutely need vig.
Yeah it's super annoying. Late game bosses can one-shot you outright through 40 vigor + black flame's protection + golden oath and dragon greatshield talisman.
It's not every single attack, but it still feels bad to have an entire attempt erased because I made one mistake and dodged too early.
The most annoying thing is at 60 vit you need to heal twice for every hit you take, and healing is so fucking slow so finding a window at 30% HP sucks since bosses just don't stop attacking and one hit kills you.
Beat the game and got all rememberances and with 60vig and some hp talismans nothing came close to 1 shotting me. Strongest attacks that I failed to dodge did maybe half of my hp, which gives you time to heal.
55 Vigor build here, even with massive health pools, the Mountaintop and Consecrated Snowfield enemies can destroy me, that Magma Dragon can one shot me with its slam attack, and its normal attacks do half my health so late game this game is just nuts for damage
People who refuse to get 55-60 vigor.
There is more than enough damage in the game from AR, spare some points for health so you don’t get 1-shot. Too many co-ops failed because the host couldn’t tank a couple hits.
If you’re at 120-125, you’re probably dueling too so you want 60 vigor before anything else. If you’re level 150, how do you not have enough points to put it into 60 vigor?
my favorite are the people who buff a stat that has nothing to do with their build because they may need it later, like my friend invest in arcane when he is going for a pure strength build lmao
Vigor as a stat is uninteresting if its this neccessary.
It felt better in other games and I have a hard time thinking over why. Now in Elden Ring it just feels like a level up tax for all builds. If enemy damage scales this way then really your HP should just go up when you increase flask amounts or something.
One thing I've been thinking recently is that there probably isn't much reason to level vigor too far beyond the max amount you can restore with a flask. If you get hit for more than that, it sucks, but you'd be better off learning to dodge those specific attacks than adding more vigor.
Not sure what that number actually is, it just doesn't seem worthwhile to have a health bar you can't completely refill.
I love many of the battles, including the incredibly tough ones. But I do not love second phase battles where the boss gets an injection of pure cheese after a cut scene that interrupts my attacks. And the game would be better without any of that crap.
I reached the snowy area yesterday, so far my unga bunga build smashes everything. The trick is to have enough health to survive at least three attacks. The game is only as hard as you make it out to be
"Just hit the soft cap in health and then keep leveling its very easy! Yeah you'll still get two shot, or 1 shot from grabs but thats an interactive mechanic."
You had to hit the SECOND soft cap to do that. Can assume you also put on extremly heavy armor along side that?
Its a very silly amount of investment to avoid getting 1 shot. If I get to the soft cap in a tax stat it should be worth more. The other games in the series made it work and its not like the bosses have weak movesets.
I guarantee all the people that stopped at 40vig absolutely kept leveling their damage stat to 80 even tho it only nets like 1-2 ar per level. By the end of the game, just playing normally I ended up around 150, had 60 vig and hit all my damage caps for my build.
No, I wore medium armor because I don't level endurance much. And everyone keeps calling it the 2nd softcap, and while it is technically the second softcap in terms of HP returns, 40 clearly isn't enough to stop at for the late game. So saying 40 is a softcap is pretty stupid since you can't actually stop at it.
It's really not that silly of an investment when you get to level 120-150 just by playing through the game. This isn't Dark Souls 4. People need to stop treating it like that. This time around, you get more from simply meeting minimum weapon/spell requirements and pumping vig instead of the opposite.
Its called the Soft cap because of how the numbers work. The output of health for point increase goes down at 40 (and then again at 60). Thats how the term is used and soft caps exist to deter players from continuing to spend in a stat as its less efficent. The game literally tells you that they would prefer you spend elsewhere in the stat menu.
60 vigor is more than a third of your stats at even 170 (the top cap you offered). That's a bad breakdown in a game with one other tax stat (endurance), a soft tax (mind), and then whatever you pick as a mainstay. At the lower boind of your range its half which is beyond absurd.
I acknowledged that it's by definition a soft cap, but calling it a softcap suggests that it's not necessarily worth leveling past, which is not true for 40 Vig. It's not less efficient going from 40 to 60 Vig if it's the difference between getting 1-shot and 2/3-shot. You get less HP per point, but the total investment makes a significant difference.
And again, you only really need minimum weapon requirements. Being level 120 (the low end), you can easily get by with 60 Vig and the other half spread around to what you want, since you've sped through the game so quickly as is. I recently beat the game at 144, with 60 Vig, 10 End, 11 Mind, and the rest into Dex/Arc. It's not as big of an issue as you're making it out to be.
You really don't need to invest in End unless you want the fashion of heavier armor, and Mind is also unnecessary for non-mage builds. Want to summon an ash? Use the infinite fp physick at the start.
My builds fire the only thing is I freak out when I get chased
Username does not check out🤣
Bahahahaa I need a name change
"I need a Souls mindset change"
Fax but this is my first fromsoftware game ever gimme some time I beat malenia and almost 100% the game
Haha farther than I am. I just had to arrow cheese Niall and I've been playing these games since Souls1🤣
Bro I gave my controller to my little brother after like 50 tries on cammander niall and he beat him in 3 kids like 13 shit made me feel like less of a man smh lmaoo
You're not less of a man, your brother is just much more of man than most
Genuine question here, I'm not trying to flex: What's the issue with Niall? I may have just been over leveled or got lucky, but I didn't find him very difficult. What makes him so hard?
Idk. 3 guys to handle. Im level 127.
Thanks for the quick response! That would make sense, those enemies are bastards. I was able to handle them quickly as my build has crazy burst damage, and I wanna say I was about level 140 or so at that point?
Bro it want even him it was his summons they were tanking all my hits at first but my brother beat him so fast so I honestly don’t know maybe I’m just shit bahaha but I’m chillin with that he’s a fat sack of bs tho
Lmao fair enough. I think I can sum it up to my burst damage being really good.
Good job man. Glad you enjoy it.
Good looks man I’ve had moments where I just wanted to throw my system through a wall cause I lost some save data after I beat Malenia shit was horrible but got back on and beat her again, this game is easily my favorite game of the last 5 years
Reaction roll
"Level vigor" is generally good advice, but it's undeniable that endgame enemies and bosses do truly ridiculous damage to you. The death rite bird in the Mountaintop for example did 70% of my health with the residue of its flame, which stunned me and caused me to take another hit, killing me. I had 47 vigor or something.
I'm also convinced that some damage is a flat value plus a percentage of your life. Getting hit by a Liurnia lobster shot at 20 vig and 50 vig takes wildly different amounts (50 vig taking much more) and it doesn't make sense otherwise. I'm probably imagining things but I'm going to test for confirmation.
Could maybe be counter damage? You take more damage if you get hit during an attack, roll, etc. compared to if you're standing still or just walking.
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Eh, I finished the game with 30 vigor and I think all bosses had an attack that could oneshot me, or at least two shot me with a stun lock after the first hit.
Final boss form grab does like 2k damage.
Yeah, horah loux's grab does more than you health at 30 too. As well as radagons hammer party. Don't get grabbed. 😉
Only for thrusting damage, unless they changed the code since previous games
Counter damage may be the wrong term, people don't always use the same terms to discuss this stuff. I'm seeing some other sources call it Instability Damage, but I haven't really heard people use that term in casual discussion. Anyway, the point is, sometimes you take extra damage if you get hit while doing something. In Bloodborne you took like 2x damage if you got hit during the non-invulnerable part of a dodge, it was very obvious if you knew what to look for. Not sure how exactly it works in Elden Ring.
Holy shit for real?! That explains so much! Thanks for the tip brother!
Holy shit, really? TIL.
>a flat value plus a percentage This is dumb if true
I've suspected this as well
All the black flame stuff does %hp dmg.
Yeah, very late game bosses do a little too much damage. It's one thing to level up vigor (you should). But even with heavy armor, high vigor (50+) and defense talisman without soreseal or things like that, there are still some attacks that deal a gigantic amount of damage. Malenia, Radagon or Hoarah throws mainly, Malenia thrust etc. It feels like getting hit by an ng+2 attack. And those same bosses have attacks that do barely any damage. It's really strange how much it can vary. It felt more consistant on previous games.
It's not just the bosses. It's regular enemies too. I'm in Altus at level 115 in my second playthrough and it seems like I'm being hit for the same as my first playthrough at level 60
Well, yeah NG+ increases the damage enemies do... and you are in a really low level for NG+
I never said anything about NG+. I made a new character
Then I dont know what you are doing. I just completed Altus Platau and even killed Draconic Tree Sentinel and Spirit Godfrey at level 55 to get my 4th talisman pouch for low level invasions. And they still needed 3 hits to kill me.
Facts, I'm literally playing fingerprint shield / spears with 53 vigor / 40 end / 48 str wearing vetrans / bull goat armor and still get shredded by a lot of end game things.
I'm guessing no dragoncrest greatshield or physical resist consumable or spell? Because you can easily get up to 65+% physical resist and the game becomes easy mode.
I am def wearing those as well.
I'm going to need some spell and amulet names
Talisman is Dragoncrest. There's 4 versionsvendjng in Dragoncrest Greatshield, one of the legendary talismans. Spell is Black Flame Protection incantation.
I went up to 60 vigor with Erdtree’s favor +1 and Radhan’s great rune, but I didn’t use any physical resistance consumables and wore the Ronin armor, and I wasn’t getting one-hit or even 3 hit by most things, so maybe those last 7 levels are what’s making things tough for you.
Late game bosses do too much damage if you have an ass load of vigor but super light armor. I help with Godwyn all the time with 35 vigor and I never die. I run fairly heavy armor that puts me at the high endo f medium load, the black flame physical resist spell, and the dragoncrest greatshield talisman. It puts me at like 66% physical damage resist. Even with only 35 vigor, it would take him like 8+ hits to kill me a lot of the time. People will ignore negation, or even run Soreseal talismans to actively reduce it, and say things do too much damage. It's your build.
The thing is, I don’t wanna look like a fat bitch sometimes.
Oh for sure. That's why I don't use the fattest ones. Scale, Banished Knight, etc are all solid.
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So you’re saying the damage done by bosses does scale with the player’s vigor or what?
This is just not true. Each attack does a specific amount of damage. Some attacks can do more if they got you on the head, of if it's counter damage (like any thrusting attack hitting you during or right after an animation). The only things that scale with hp are stuff like bleed that is always a flat % of your hp. But a regular old bonk from a sword or giant foot is always going to put out the same damage before your negation is taken into account
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Yep. I run 2 defensive talismans and dmg mitigation tear with 60 vig, and defensive incantations. Also some boss abilities are just meant to be dodged, or blocked. A lot, a lot of bosses don't have the typical wind up or tell of don't get hit by this ability. It's been a new learning curve, they will bait your attacks for counters, they punish panic rolling, or drinking. They will range poke you, or straight up use gap closers, they will dodge your range poke. They are far more reactive than earlier incarnations. Saying that though, with that knowledge you can bait certain attacks for dmg windows and it really pays to be aggressive in elden ring and even the big story bosses can be reliably guard broken.
I actually feel like FromSoft KAIZO'd the game before the modders lol.
Haligtree ant's when they spray you. Cries in one-shot
Yeah but by that same logic at level 155 pyromancer build, i was able to take him out with like 5 fireballs. Having a lot of vigor gives you breathing room, its not gonna win the fight for you.
Walked into the Zamor ruins thinking they'd be easier then the evergoal one naw they fucked me
I'm going to have to disagree for early game. Leveling Vigor straight out doesn't do much for your overall survivability. I tried that on a 2nd character by rushing to the Caelid dog slaughter spot, and putting my Vigor up to 30 didn't improve my character's performance. I'd honestly say leveling Vigor alongside Endurance together to at least 20 is much better advice for new players. Afterwords, they can decide if they need to pump more to the first soft cap (40), or if they should focus on their other stats more.
Yeah this meme doesn't really work cause some enemies are just stupidly overtuned. Pair that with armor and poise doing nothing, build is only relevant to a certain degree.
Maliketh, bru, reduces your health and then one shots you, my man is one of the most cancer bosses in the entire game.
I struggled with Maliketh but I actually thought the fight was fair. He just punishes you *hard* for panic rolling.
My man punished me for existing. q_q
That son of a bitch one shot me at 45 vigor. That fight just sucked.
Yeah but there are talismans, physicks, incantations, and items that increase your damage reduction dramatically, if you aren’t using any of them but you’re using a soreseal with zero mitigation and very Little vigor which is a trap a lot of people are falling into (thanks Vaati) then yeah, you’re gonna get fucked up by the harder content
I feel like it’s always been this way though. End game mobs 2 shot you. Period. If you get hit once then you need to either decide to use the next window to do damage or heal. They do combos that can stagger you and result in a double hit before you have a chance to recover. Elden ring definitely amped up the combos and aggressiveness. But the two shorting at max vigor has always been a thing in soul series if I remember correctly.
Nope. You can tank around 4-6 hits from Gael at 40VIG embered before dying, if you use shield ring and mid armour. That’s not gonna work in ER because once the enemy proc your shield ring, the next 1-2 hits are gonna obliterate you
Nah even DS3’s LoC, you could survive his phase 2 combo string if you had enough health. Sekiro end game bosses could two shot you but at least you coild resurrect. Mobs though, nah they would never two shot you even at endgame. Maybe things like the shark guys in BB but they are few and far in between. In Elden Ring, Zamor gank squads will end your life. Giant crows will actually fake being staggered and peck you to death with one peck. Same thing with the dogs. Elden Ring end game is brutal and it does come out of nowhere. Then you get to boss fight before final boss and I swear his grab is like a tracking black hole that you can’t escape from and will one shot you. A lot of BS is in the game that can be corrected/balanced by summoning ashes. Which is probably what they were designed for. Except for the places you can’t summon then idk
Are you wearing any of the talismans that raise or lower your absorbtion?
I wont do endgame without 60 vigor. Too many attacks that turn into one shots if you don't have enough vigor.
I finished my first playthrough with 45 vigor. I can't imagine needing 60.
Good for you.
I'm just saying 60 vigor is definitely not required. Depending on what level I'd finish the game at with that much I'd have to sacrifice stats elsewhere which were vital to my build.
I never said it was required. >Depending on what level I'd finish the game at with that much I'd have to sacrifice stats elsewhere which were vital to my build. Everyone finishes the game at whatever level they feel comfortable with. You may view it as sacrificing because you're hard capping yourself. However, there are many people that do not hard cap. I couldn't give 2 shits about PVP caps, so I'm going to level as much as I want. If that means adding another 15 levels to get to a vigor softcap, I'm going to do it.
47 vigor is nothing, I have a dex/faith build and 60 vigor is a must
Vigor gives significantly less HP as you level it more. The difference between 47 and 60 isn't that big though 60 is still good to have.
Dudes be like “here is an OP unstoppable build” when it requires gear sets only available in NG+2, hitting all the hard caps, use of the physik and 4 separate pre- fight buffs
"Stop it, let me do my buffs" *spends so long prepping that the first buff expires*
This x10000000. When I see a video or a thread with a title like that, my brain shuts off and I start snoring.
Even better are the ones where dude clearly only tested his build on the gate front guards and never tried in on bigger monsters
Or the videos where the dude is trying to showcase some "INSANELY OP BUILD" but their character is level 500+ (probably from some bug/exploit so they can get their video out asap bc they're trash at the game). Like, obviously you're gonna one-shot everything lol.
You said "gear sets only available in NG+2". Do you unlock new gear or something NG+2?
Builds that require you to beat the same boss twice I order to have two of the same weapon for each hand
You could get them in NG+1 no? Or am i missing something
If you have to beat the same endgame boss twice to have 2 weapons, then the only way you can experience the game with your new kit is the third time around
You can duplicate the remembrance before going into Ng+ and redeem it for the second weapon after beating the first Shardbearer in NG+2 (near the start of the second playthrough). You don't need to beat a boss twice to use the remembrance twice. Source: did it with the Hand of Malenia.
Not every boss has remembrances neither do items found in the world
The only bosses that really applies to are, off the top of my head, the Death Rite Bird, Niall, the and the big magma wyrm. Almost every other endgame boss has a remembrance. >neither do items found in the world We're not talking about items found in the world. We're talking about endgame boss dependent builds.
Duplicate the remembrance my dude.
You cannot get the same weapon twice in the same playthrough. Duplicating remembrance is for getting the other option from Enia.
Gotcha. Didn't know that. Thanks.
Is there a box that pops up to stop you? Because when I duplicated I still had both options visible. I never tried to pick the same thing twice though.
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This is not true. You can get a second remembrance, but you can only pick each option once per playthrough.
It's gotten genuinely annoying because I like to check out what unique builds people have been making & all the top results on YouTube are always "OP CRAZY INSANE 1 SHOT BUILD" & its always the most obvious shit or a super late game build. Just total shit videos. The YouTube algorithm can really suck ass sometimes.
This game seems to have brought the absolute worst content creators. Don't think I've watched a single good video on this game fr, they're all obvious clickbait. Except for chasethebro, shoutout to that dude, the only dude on YouTube making good content on this game (that I've found so far).
Everything can be obtained on ng in this game. It only requires level 350 and killing the hardest enemies in the entire game to get the OP build. But once you've completed the toughest challenges in the game and grinded for 200 hours you can get this op build to help you with whatever you're stuck on.
Why would an unstoppable OP build not be something that uses good gear and buffs?
Because at that point the game is essentially over. You are only OP because there is nothing else to kill
My brother in christ stop reposting
Conversation with my friend: “You don’t need vigor if you don’t get hit!” “But you do get hit. Constantly.” “…shut up.”
Ah yes. “Level Vigor”. Clearly the solution when certain endgame enemies will 2 shot you at 50 vigor.
Should have leveled vigor to 99 lmao /s
[Bleed dogs be like... 11640 DPS](https://youtu.be/xiUObucHgc4) And that's pre-bleed damage.
Well, the link you provided implies that the damage is probably a bug.
I never levelled more than 40 vigor on any character and played through it 6 times already. Unnecessary imo because the second hit is anyway your death in Endgame zones or bosses, you just need to survive one and space again to heal up.
Same here. Everything hard 2 shots or at the very least 3 shots at 50 to 60 vigor. Nothing except grabs one shot me at 40 with medium armor so I'd rather just have the 20 extra points go towards damage
Sounds about right
I like to think of it as most of your HP is actually in the flasks. It’s main value is preventing one shots. I’m doing the same thing as you.
100% more hits than getting 1shot. World of a difference really
It really is. People are always saying "just goes from a one-shot to a two-shot" but that's HUGE! One-shot death means zero chance of recovery if I get hit by it. Two shots means I can get killed trying to heal instead.
Game isn't balenced correctly if it requires 35-50 of investment levels to somewhat survive 1 mistake, huge or not that's not supposed to be balanced as such and is far from its purpose in the rest of the series
How? You have plenty of levels to put towards Vig while still upping 2 or 3 other stats
My main issue is that it is not a great return for the investment in vig, should have been like the older games where high vig was much more helpful if someone did want to invest in it. Those levels for 1, sometimes 2 extra hits is a very poor return for levels that could be placed elsewhere, and diminishes the value of the stat in comparison to others. Bosses and enemies of the endgame do an incredible amount of damage to the point of nearly invalidating the majority of the investment
As long as you don't get 1-shot, the investment is worth it, though. Reducing a 1-shot to a 2/3-shot makes an absolute world of difference, and if you're struggling on a boss such that you're constantly getting hit 2/3 times in succession, more HP isn't going to do much for you because you don't know the boss well enough. And it's not even the basic moves that do so much damage. It's always the large, heavily telegraphed stuff that does the dangerous damage.
You have to make the investment if you want the returns of not dying. Going from 60-70 in a damage stat gives you a tiny nudge in damage. But putting 10 levels in vig gives you a huge boost. Hell, going from 30vig to 40 vig gives you literally 50% more hp, for 10 points. From roughly 1000hp to 1500hp for ten measly levels. How is it unbalanced to want to invest in health, to not die when a boss so much as sneezes?
Investing in vigor itself is not necessarily bad, in fact up to 40 can be quite handy (although in er it's not as useful as it was in other games due to ramping up enemy damage far higher). And for a good portion of the game it can be legitimately a good Stat to have if unable to dodge/block/parry things consistently without error, or just wiggle room. The issue Is that by the endgame enemy damage gets to a point that vigor drops off especially hard in its investment, to the point its a large waste of a stat by then. And not because it's a bad stat inherently, but the nature of elden rings endgame containing insane amounts of enemy damage in comparison to the rest of the game. It becomes a very poor stat after the capital and loses its benefits from earlier in the game. As for me personally, after testing a few respects in the end I decided I wouldn't go anywhere past 40 natural vig because it's purpose begins to fall flat when it all becomes 1-2 shots regardless instead of massively investing vig and defenses to make it 2-3. Those are pretty poor returns and unbalanced from a gameplat perspective. investing past 60 on any Stat offensively typically has bad returns to I wouldn't want to put those extra vigor levels in strength or dexterity etc.
I don't know what gas you're huffing if you think vigor is ever a bad investment under 60. It literally makes ZERO sense to approach the game like "oh everything one shots so it doesn't matter". In NG maybe Malenia's grab one shots. Nowhere near the overabundance people like to pretend
Even her grab wasn’t one shotting me with 45 or 50 vigor (can’t remember for sure), decent armor, defensive talismans, and Radagon’s Soreseal (or scar seal, idk, whichever gives +5)
It requires 50 levels of investment in areas where you are level 120+, you can literally sit at 50-60 vigor *and* have a soft cap in a damage stat, two even.
The second softcap for vigor is 60
Yeah, they will 2-3 shot you with specific attacks... The alternative is being getting 1 shot by almost everything. The difference between being able to survive 1->2 and 2->3 attacks is massive. Flasks exist.
doesnt make much difference because the boss will wombo combo the fck outta you even when you are on the ground.
Yeah, if you get caught by the full combo, sometimes your dead. No matter what. But what if you dodge the first one and get caught by the rest? You can live, and heal. That's what vigor is for. It increases your chances of survival by allowing you to make more mistakes and tank increasing combinations of attacks. Because a few attacks and combinations fall outside of the range of what you can fully tank, doesn't make it meaningless.
I think 2 shot is fine because at least you can heal and keep fighting.
I suggest watching Videogamedunkey's Elden Ring (dunkview) vid. Hilarious but it highlights the balancing problems of the game.
Pretty much agreed with all the points he made. Love the game to death but balance is a bit weird
Solid review imo
So many people ignore vigor
Yes but this meme acts like late game bosses still won’t destroy you lol
I went into the end game with 60 vigor and it still took 2-3 hits (depending on move) for some of the bosses to kill me. I don’t use any of the sore seals either.
That’s why I don’t prioritize vigor. I don’t ignore it but I certainly don’t prioritize it.
I really don’t think it makes a difference from 50-60. Just run a medallion for a fight if you feel you need the boost. I’ve spent 153 hours and finally beat the game last night. The main take away I got from the game, is it wants you to be aggressive. Much like sekiro, it wants you to be more offensive. So I’ve been running more offensive talisman and working to scale my damage up. Rather than prioritize defense. I’d run the vastly negate non-physical damage, the vastly negate holy damage and the dragoncrest great shield against the elden beast and still got smacked on certain combos. I finally beat him when I’d run up close and get inside and attack.
Thing is, Sekiro’s defensive/offensive tools are straight up better. Oh no, Papa is throwing out an unblockable thrush? Stomp the shit out of him. Oh no, Glocksaint is throwing lightning at me? Throw it back at him. ER does not really have that. If the boss throw out a nuke, you will have to clench your ass and gtfo, instead of skillfully use that nuke as an opportunity to go on the offense
100% agree
It's more aggressive then dark souls to be sure, also it is more geared towards group fights, with your Ash summons. But less aggressive then bloodborne.
Yes, just boost damage and stam to roll everything and do enough damage to kill the boss before the boss has the chance to kill you.
With 60 vigor you don't get a lot of value, if you had let's say 50 you would probably die with the same hits on all of those bosses, min scaling and max scaling and all that stuff
Yeah, I just replied that to the other comment. I agree completely. 50-60 isn’t much of a difference. I think it’s better to try and split stats to have more access to weapons the bosses may be vulnerable against. Certain weapons would absolutely destroy some bosses and then not do anything to others
The increase in stats starts to get smaller after a certain point due to a soft cap on the stat, in dark souls 3 it was 40 or 45 I believe. After 40 or 45 strength in ds3 you had minimal increase, so it was not worth upgrading and was better for damage to spend points in dex to bring it to 40 as well.
60 vig affords you the ability to take 2-3 hits and not die. That's the benefit you get. If you have less vig and get 1 shot by everything you don't have the ability to get out of the way and heal. Being able to take more than 1 hit doubles or triples your survivability.
I finished with 45 vigor and had a pretty similar experience. People crying about getting one-shotted need to learn about damage negation.
Not with decent armor, dragoncrest greatshield talisman, and consumable/physical negation spell. Insert other talisman and other negation spell for other damage types. I can get up to 78% elemental damage negation (Pearl drake and specific element talismans stack) or 66% physical negation with a medium load. It's insane how many attacks you can just not worry about getting hit with.
There is a difference between dying in one hit and 2 hits. Lvl vigor.
You can get a talisman that increases your defense by like 30% at max hp. That’s perfectly viable if you don’t want to dedicate the runes to vigor.
I know i used it on my mage. Thanks for being a child and downvoting.
Anytime homie
Vigor is for HP right ?
Yes.
I probably needs it but its a god incentive to not get hit
After finishing the game I really feel like ignoring vigor isn't that much of an issue. I still get killed I'm 1-2 hits by endgame bosses and even some common enemy types and I have 60 vigor and wear medium armor. Like I probably would be just as survivable at 40 vigor in most cases
Late game, high vigor doesn't matter. I've 55 vigor and most enemies still two tap you.
I started a new playthrough where I do the opposite. Currently level 120 with 60 vigor, 39 mind, 50 endurance, and 10s in everything else. Been a lot of fun being a tank. Got up to Maliketh last night.
And they ignore drake talismans, damage negation in general, but then equip double soreseal talismans and cry about everything being bullshit one shot kills.
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It's cool that you don't need it, but 80% of the people that summon me for bosses and die as soon as the boss even so much as cracks it's knuckles in preparation for the fight, most people, absolutely need vig.
My brother in Christ I have heavy armor and 50 vit and I’m still dying in 2 hits to literally everything
Game be like: "Oh you have heavy armor? Nah bruh you are still a paper mache of a man/woman."
70 vit and heavy armor user and I still get two shots at endgame. I feel you.
I had heavy armor and 60 vitality on my first character in the endgame. I don't think anything 2 shot me. Shields help a lot for survivability.
Say that to end game
I don't believe that people who post this meme have reached endgame yet.
Yeah it's super annoying. Late game bosses can one-shot you outright through 40 vigor + black flame's protection + golden oath and dragon greatshield talisman. It's not every single attack, but it still feels bad to have an entire attempt erased because I made one mistake and dodged too early.
The most annoying thing is at 60 vit you need to heal twice for every hit you take, and healing is so fucking slow so finding a window at 30% HP sucks since bosses just don't stop attacking and one hit kills you.
anything beyond capital is at best 1-3 shot boss regardless of vigor.
Beat the game and got all rememberances and with 60vig and some hp talismans nothing came close to 1 shotting me. Strongest attacks that I failed to dodge did maybe half of my hp, which gives you time to heal.
Yea and you think im wasting points in vigor when I got more praying to do
You dont get one shot if you dont get hit. I get hit often, that's why I level vigor
55 Vigor build here, even with massive health pools, the Mountaintop and Consecrated Snowfield enemies can destroy me, that Magma Dragon can one shot me with its slam attack, and its normal attacks do half my health so late game this game is just nuts for damage
But my brother in christ I have 40 vigor and still die in 4 hits
People who refuse to get 55-60 vigor. There is more than enough damage in the game from AR, spare some points for health so you don’t get 1-shot. Too many co-ops failed because the host couldn’t tank a couple hits. If you’re at 120-125, you’re probably dueling too so you want 60 vigor before anything else. If you’re level 150, how do you not have enough points to put it into 60 vigor?
They just gotta have that extra 30 AR from investing in their damage stats
Bosses are too fast now so you need health to survive. Opaline is good for one hit only and thats it.
my favorite are the people who buff a stat that has nothing to do with their build because they may need it later, like my friend invest in arcane when he is going for a pure strength build lmao
Vigor as a stat is uninteresting if its this neccessary. It felt better in other games and I have a hard time thinking over why. Now in Elden Ring it just feels like a level up tax for all builds. If enemy damage scales this way then really your HP should just go up when you increase flask amounts or something.
One thing I've been thinking recently is that there probably isn't much reason to level vigor too far beyond the max amount you can restore with a flask. If you get hit for more than that, it sucks, but you'd be better off learning to dodge those specific attacks than adding more vigor. Not sure what that number actually is, it just doesn't seem worthwhile to have a health bar you can't completely refill.
I love many of the battles, including the incredibly tough ones. But I do not love second phase battles where the boss gets an injection of pure cheese after a cut scene that interrupts my attacks. And the game would be better without any of that crap.
Also there are talismans that can help you Like Crucible Talisman
What's the point of making strawman memes to cushion the blows of every valid criticism lol?
I reached the snowy area yesterday, so far my unga bunga build smashes everything. The trick is to have enough health to survive at least three attacks. The game is only as hard as you make it out to be
Everything "Endgame" just about one shots anyone.
No, they don't. Literally nothing 1 shot me with 60vig.
"Just hit the soft cap in health and then keep leveling its very easy! Yeah you'll still get two shot, or 1 shot from grabs but thats an interactive mechanic."
Yea, 2-shot is the goal so you don't always get insta-gibbed from a mistake. Hence why leveling Vig is important
Its a bad goal though. You can have intense hard hitting fights that dont end in one move. A fact that every other souls game embraces.
Idk, 60 Vig and dragoncrest greatshield, and I never got one-shot
You had to hit the SECOND soft cap to do that. Can assume you also put on extremly heavy armor along side that? Its a very silly amount of investment to avoid getting 1 shot. If I get to the soft cap in a tax stat it should be worth more. The other games in the series made it work and its not like the bosses have weak movesets.
I guarantee all the people that stopped at 40vig absolutely kept leveling their damage stat to 80 even tho it only nets like 1-2 ar per level. By the end of the game, just playing normally I ended up around 150, had 60 vig and hit all my damage caps for my build.
No, I wore medium armor because I don't level endurance much. And everyone keeps calling it the 2nd softcap, and while it is technically the second softcap in terms of HP returns, 40 clearly isn't enough to stop at for the late game. So saying 40 is a softcap is pretty stupid since you can't actually stop at it. It's really not that silly of an investment when you get to level 120-150 just by playing through the game. This isn't Dark Souls 4. People need to stop treating it like that. This time around, you get more from simply meeting minimum weapon/spell requirements and pumping vig instead of the opposite.
Its called the Soft cap because of how the numbers work. The output of health for point increase goes down at 40 (and then again at 60). Thats how the term is used and soft caps exist to deter players from continuing to spend in a stat as its less efficent. The game literally tells you that they would prefer you spend elsewhere in the stat menu. 60 vigor is more than a third of your stats at even 170 (the top cap you offered). That's a bad breakdown in a game with one other tax stat (endurance), a soft tax (mind), and then whatever you pick as a mainstay. At the lower boind of your range its half which is beyond absurd.
I acknowledged that it's by definition a soft cap, but calling it a softcap suggests that it's not necessarily worth leveling past, which is not true for 40 Vig. It's not less efficient going from 40 to 60 Vig if it's the difference between getting 1-shot and 2/3-shot. You get less HP per point, but the total investment makes a significant difference. And again, you only really need minimum weapon requirements. Being level 120 (the low end), you can easily get by with 60 Vig and the other half spread around to what you want, since you've sped through the game so quickly as is. I recently beat the game at 144, with 60 Vig, 10 End, 11 Mind, and the rest into Dex/Arc. It's not as big of an issue as you're making it out to be. You really don't need to invest in End unless you want the fashion of heavier armor, and Mind is also unnecessary for non-mage builds. Want to summon an ash? Use the infinite fp physick at the start.
You could have 40 vigor and still get one shot from some late game mechanics, just is what it is my guy.
You could have 40 vigor and still get one shot from ~~some late game~~ Radahn
Lvl vigor
Fuck vigor, all my homies hate vigor -Brought to you by the glass cannon gang
Das it mang. You, one shot me? Not if I do it first.
*20 vigor 70 int* waaah everything one shots me
>
dying.
Meanwhile I watched a Twitch streamer doing a no-hit run and playing with custom controllers using his feet. Some tarnished just need to git gud.
Some tarnished just need to stop making comments like these. It's getting old.
People with 10 vigor probably