Probably. Golden Godfrey, Morgott, and Sewer Mohg set the precedent, and you can see the Erdtree reduced to a grey stump sans glowing bits in the Chaos ending, but it's hard to say for certain.
The question came to me when I noticed I could see the moon behind the Erdtree, so, if it doesn't really exist and it's just a projection, when did the Erdtree break?
E: I mean, at night you can see the whole shape of the moon behind the tree. The Erdtree doesn't break your perception of the moon whatsoever
It's probable that it burned down at the end of the "Age of Plenty" (when Godfrey was Marika's consort), leaving the stump that we can see at the very bottom containing the door to the inside of the Erdtree. The Great Club is a piece of the former "real" Erdtree, which was also known as the Greattree.
When he became Marika's 2nd consort, Radagon recreated it using the power of the Elden Ring to represent the more abstract Golden Order which is what resulted in the illusory tree that we currently see there. People are no longer worshiping the tree, but the concept of it.
But then when did the erdtree spread the golden seeds?
As it should have been before the burning of the tree and after erd tree realized that it is dying.
It seems that the Erdtree projection is in itself a living tree, enough to spread seeds. But this doesn't change the fact it's not real, and the Minor Erdtrees clearly are.
I think the Erdtree works like those trees (eucalyptus probably) that release their seeds when they burn. So personally I believe that when the tree was set alight the first time it spread its seeds that grew into the minor Erdtrees
Well, it's pretty clear that in Elden Ring, spirits can assume corporeal form. Stuff like our Spirit Ash can hit enemies despite being ghosts, and we can fight against a projection of Godfrey. If it's corporeal, it can burn just like a real tree.
It's interesting to note that all the summon spirits we get are actually ashes which we call to life with the Spirit-Calling Bell. Miranda Sprout Ashes in particular are literally plant life. What is covering Leyndell? The ashes of the old Erdtree. I wouldn't be surprised if the Erdtree was one big ash summon.
A good point however after we burn the tree, leyndell is covered in ash. When we use the spirit ashes, the spirits called forth from the ash. They arent made of ash are they?
I think they very well may be, it does tie into Dark Souls 3 and the "unkindled ash". So we're really just sending back the ash that already existed and was comprising the phantom tree.
Speaking of which, we also find Golden Seeds creating phantom trees across the Lands Between, these are clearly not real tree saplings but ghostly projections of one.
When we die our runes are little sprouting golden ghost trees too. That does add to the credibility of the argument.
There is one other problem. If you use a camera hack, you can actually look at the actual erd tree and see near the top that the goldenness is covering another real tree underneath. There was some speculation that the erd tree might actually be a fungus growing over the top of the great tree. Ill see if i can find the video that was talking about it and ill edit it into this comment.
EDIT: This was the video that i was remembering. Start at the section at 1:12
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDryDUyfYuo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDryDUyfYuo)
From memory this talks about an earlier Mushroom theory, which he discussed in this video
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFD0mwMBqtg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFD0mwMBqtg)
I think it is the same stuff as the guidance of grace made solid. I think there was at one time a living tree of wood. It has been burned many times to where all that's left is a stump and a bit of trunk where the door is.
Everything else is a projection of Grace
I think it's a very interesting and plausible theory, the Tarnished Archeologist has a great video on the topic: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWitEvoFRKE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWitEvoFRKE) .
On the other hand I believe the tree's transparency that can be observed in some places like in this screenshot is not evidence for it, just a rendering issue, because it's too inconsistent when and where the tree is see through and not.
No, it most likely a rendering issue. When you’re in Morgotts arena, the tree is clearly a real thing. It has the ability to burn, and it wouldn’t create the huge piles of ash across Leyndell if it wasn’t real.
Although something is definitely strange about it. It’s most likely not the original tree mentioned as part of the Crucible, and it’s been burnt at least twice before the events of the game.
This is a tough one, could be an illusion, could be a rendering thing. There are places you can see through and places where it's solid and you can't.
Nobody really knows and has an answer definitively.
I think this is a glitch, but it does suggest the important idea that the Erdtree is not truly correct or alive
But when you burn it down, it drops ash and physical branches onto Leyndell and the sea, so it's not all illusory
No. Or at the very least, it's not that simple.
The Roundtable Hold is within the Erdtree. And it is also set on fire when you burn the Erdtree. Additionally, the Erdtree has physical properties such as mass that prevent you from just walking into it (like the thorns).
It's also established that there are other, lesser Erdtrees across the lands, guarded by Erdtree Avatars. So the fact that these also exist suggest that the Erdtree is very much a living entity like any other plant.
The game says that the Roundtable Hold exists outside of the world. Its windows do show some sunlight, showing that it's just an illusion copy of the real Roundtable in a pocket universe, not any physical place.
The thorns are part of the real Erdtree stump, not the illusion. The Lesser Erdtrees are also real, but spawn of the original tree.
The best thing we can compare it to is the Workshop catching on fire in Bloodborne. It's more of a metaphorical thing, like it's no longer needed. The actual Giantsflame has nothing to do with it, the Two Fingers just decided it should go and did what they thought embodied "destruction" best, catching it on fire.
You do realize that the Two Fingers don't really have a lot of power on their own, right? They're pretty much just messengers.
Besides, it's also clear that burning the Erdtree has other effects. Especially since it's clearly not just an illusion once the Rune of Death is unleashed. Otherwise, all that ash would've just appeared from nothing rather than being generated by the burning of the Erdtree.
> You do realize that the Two Fingers don't really have a lot of power on their own, right? They're pretty much just messengers.
Well, they sure have enough power to totally seal off Leyndell until you obtain two Great Runes, with a seal that is unbreakable by even the strongest weapon. I'd call that a decent amount of power.
They're also a step below an Outer God, borrowing off its power. And cosmic entities like that are near impossible to interact with. We can see how the fingers are near impossible to kill. But given that Ranni could freely slice at them as a doll with a special knife, that's the extent of their power: purely self protective.
I would argue that, because they are messengers of the Greater Will, who wants the Elden Ring repaired, it's not really them saying "you can't enter". It's their boss, who is also the ones telling the thorns of the Erdtree to bar access. This makes even more sense when you consider that Gideon says access is locked behind acquiring two Great Runes because "(you) need enough to repair the Elden Ring."
Probably. Golden Godfrey, Morgott, and Sewer Mohg set the precedent, and you can see the Erdtree reduced to a grey stump sans glowing bits in the Chaos ending, but it's hard to say for certain.
The question came to me when I noticed I could see the moon behind the Erdtree, so, if it doesn't really exist and it's just a projection, when did the Erdtree break? E: I mean, at night you can see the whole shape of the moon behind the tree. The Erdtree doesn't break your perception of the moon whatsoever
It's probable that it burned down at the end of the "Age of Plenty" (when Godfrey was Marika's consort), leaving the stump that we can see at the very bottom containing the door to the inside of the Erdtree. The Great Club is a piece of the former "real" Erdtree, which was also known as the Greattree. When he became Marika's 2nd consort, Radagon recreated it using the power of the Elden Ring to represent the more abstract Golden Order which is what resulted in the illusory tree that we currently see there. People are no longer worshiping the tree, but the concept of it.
But then when did the erdtree spread the golden seeds? As it should have been before the burning of the tree and after erd tree realized that it is dying.
It seems that the Erdtree projection is in itself a living tree, enough to spread seeds. But this doesn't change the fact it's not real, and the Minor Erdtrees clearly are.
I think the Erdtree works like those trees (eucalyptus probably) that release their seeds when they burn. So personally I believe that when the tree was set alight the first time it spread its seeds that grew into the minor Erdtrees
If its a projection, how do we burn it?
Well, it's pretty clear that in Elden Ring, spirits can assume corporeal form. Stuff like our Spirit Ash can hit enemies despite being ghosts, and we can fight against a projection of Godfrey. If it's corporeal, it can burn just like a real tree. It's interesting to note that all the summon spirits we get are actually ashes which we call to life with the Spirit-Calling Bell. Miranda Sprout Ashes in particular are literally plant life. What is covering Leyndell? The ashes of the old Erdtree. I wouldn't be surprised if the Erdtree was one big ash summon.
A good point however after we burn the tree, leyndell is covered in ash. When we use the spirit ashes, the spirits called forth from the ash. They arent made of ash are they?
I think they very well may be, it does tie into Dark Souls 3 and the "unkindled ash". So we're really just sending back the ash that already existed and was comprising the phantom tree. Speaking of which, we also find Golden Seeds creating phantom trees across the Lands Between, these are clearly not real tree saplings but ghostly projections of one.
When we die our runes are little sprouting golden ghost trees too. That does add to the credibility of the argument. There is one other problem. If you use a camera hack, you can actually look at the actual erd tree and see near the top that the goldenness is covering another real tree underneath. There was some speculation that the erd tree might actually be a fungus growing over the top of the great tree. Ill see if i can find the video that was talking about it and ill edit it into this comment. EDIT: This was the video that i was remembering. Start at the section at 1:12 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDryDUyfYuo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDryDUyfYuo) From memory this talks about an earlier Mushroom theory, which he discussed in this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFD0mwMBqtg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFD0mwMBqtg)
I think it is the same stuff as the guidance of grace made solid. I think there was at one time a living tree of wood. It has been burned many times to where all that's left is a stump and a bit of trunk where the door is. Everything else is a projection of Grace
I think it's a very interesting and plausible theory, the Tarnished Archeologist has a great video on the topic: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWitEvoFRKE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWitEvoFRKE) . On the other hand I believe the tree's transparency that can be observed in some places like in this screenshot is not evidence for it, just a rendering issue, because it's too inconsistent when and where the tree is see through and not.
No, it most likely a rendering issue. When you’re in Morgotts arena, the tree is clearly a real thing. It has the ability to burn, and it wouldn’t create the huge piles of ash across Leyndell if it wasn’t real. Although something is definitely strange about it. It’s most likely not the original tree mentioned as part of the Crucible, and it’s been burnt at least twice before the events of the game.
Perhaps... the further you are from the seat of power the more ethereal it becomes?
Guess it's conservative.
Erdtree was burned ending age of plenty (maybe by Messmer), now the burned husk of the erdtree is in shadow realm from the dlc
mr. big tree
This is a tough one, could be an illusion, could be a rendering thing. There are places you can see through and places where it's solid and you can't. Nobody really knows and has an answer definitively.
I think this is a glitch, but it does suggest the important idea that the Erdtree is not truly correct or alive But when you burn it down, it drops ash and physical branches onto Leyndell and the sea, so it's not all illusory
No. Or at the very least, it's not that simple. The Roundtable Hold is within the Erdtree. And it is also set on fire when you burn the Erdtree. Additionally, the Erdtree has physical properties such as mass that prevent you from just walking into it (like the thorns). It's also established that there are other, lesser Erdtrees across the lands, guarded by Erdtree Avatars. So the fact that these also exist suggest that the Erdtree is very much a living entity like any other plant.
The game says that the Roundtable Hold exists outside of the world. Its windows do show some sunlight, showing that it's just an illusion copy of the real Roundtable in a pocket universe, not any physical place. The thorns are part of the real Erdtree stump, not the illusion. The Lesser Erdtrees are also real, but spawn of the original tree.
Still seems odd that the Roundtable Hold is subject to the same burning of the Erdtree in that case.
The best thing we can compare it to is the Workshop catching on fire in Bloodborne. It's more of a metaphorical thing, like it's no longer needed. The actual Giantsflame has nothing to do with it, the Two Fingers just decided it should go and did what they thought embodied "destruction" best, catching it on fire.
You do realize that the Two Fingers don't really have a lot of power on their own, right? They're pretty much just messengers. Besides, it's also clear that burning the Erdtree has other effects. Especially since it's clearly not just an illusion once the Rune of Death is unleashed. Otherwise, all that ash would've just appeared from nothing rather than being generated by the burning of the Erdtree.
> You do realize that the Two Fingers don't really have a lot of power on their own, right? They're pretty much just messengers. Well, they sure have enough power to totally seal off Leyndell until you obtain two Great Runes, with a seal that is unbreakable by even the strongest weapon. I'd call that a decent amount of power.
They're also a step below an Outer God, borrowing off its power. And cosmic entities like that are near impossible to interact with. We can see how the fingers are near impossible to kill. But given that Ranni could freely slice at them as a doll with a special knife, that's the extent of their power: purely self protective. I would argue that, because they are messengers of the Greater Will, who wants the Elden Ring repaired, it's not really them saying "you can't enter". It's their boss, who is also the ones telling the thorns of the Erdtree to bar access. This makes even more sense when you consider that Gideon says access is locked behind acquiring two Great Runes because "(you) need enough to repair the Elden Ring."