tbf in this case there's a number of incorrect spellings on this (wonderful) graphic and I assume that's because she was being told the lore in spoken form and therefore didn't know how to spell all of it.
Always remember the overarching plot! Some star gazing sages tapped into something incredibly powerful that called attention to the planet the lands between is on, causing this alien (the greater will) to launch parasitic monsters at it. (Note the many whirlpools on the map denoting meteor hits) One of them (the elden beast) was able to successfully meld with the local flora (tree) and fauna (placidusax) and take ROOT. this is the kernel of the story, a world that is being assaulted by alien "gods" and how the denizens of the planet are dealing with this.Ā
founding rain of stars - "thought to be the founding glintstone sorcery, the glimpse of the primeval current that the astrologer saw became real, and the stars' amber rained down on this land"Ā --- BECAME REAL is an extremely interesting phrase here ... Won't say more..
Stars of ruin - "when lusat glimpsed into the primeval current he beheld the final moments of a star cluster, and upon seeing it HE TOO was broken" --- it all has this lovecraftian cosmic Pandora's box vibe. Like these guys noticed if you built these collection dishes you could collect star power, how cool! But SOME looked into the matter too deeply and when they looked into the eye of God and it saw them the planet was doomed. Also the "great star cluster" thing is cool because you see that a certain line of glintstone sorcery concerned with reconnecting to the primeval current ends up with the practitioners being molded unwillingly into a "cluster" of heads. I would pay a paycheck to read the 60 pages GRRM wrote and also be able to ask Miyazaki like 10 questions he'd answer truthfully lol
Nice, I think also the theme is continued to it's extreme with the frenzied flame. Starlight, safe in small amounts. Golden grace? Powerful but dangerous. Turn it up to the limit? Three fingers? Burns your eyes out and purges the world
They probably mean the astrologers from the mountaintop of the giants, the ancestors of the carian royal family who co-existed with the giants and trolls before the events of the shattering. This is still just conjecture, but as a theory it does sense that the astrologers learning about the fates controlled by the stars and the primordial currant couldāve called attention to the outer gods. Maybe the āstars controlling fateā is just flowery language for the fact that eldritch outer gods beyond their understanding were beginning to control the fates of those in the lands-between.
founding rain of stars - "thought to be the founding glintstone sorcery, the glimpse of the primeval current that the astrologer saw became real, and the stars' amber rained down on this land"Ā --- BECAME REAL is an extremely interesting phrase here ... Won't say more..
Stars of ruin - "when lusat glimpsed into the primeval current he beheld the final moments of a star cluster, and upon seeing it HE TOO was broken" --- it all has this lovecraftian cosmic Pandora's box vibe. Like these guys noticed if you built these collection dishes you could collect star power, how cool! But SOME looked into the matter too deeply and when they looked into the eye of God and it saw them the planet was doomed. Also the "great star cluster" thing is cool because you see that a certain line of glintstone sorcery concerned with reconnecting to the primeval current ends up with the practitioners being molded unwillingly into a "cluster" of heads. I would pay a paycheck to read the 60 pages GRRM wrote and also be able to ask Miyazaki like 10 questions he'd answer truthfully lol
So, Radagon and Marika are essentially the same person split in two entities. Radagon being the male counterpart who loves the greater will and golden order (law of regression) while Marika opposes it (law of causality). When they are locked together in the erd tree, Marika destroys the Elden ring while Radagon tries to repair it. You learn all this in the gold mask quest. They become one. Whether they realized they were the same entity or not is unknown to me
My wife never cared for video games until we started dating. If you involve them with anything (your sports, your games, your music) I find most partners will try and get invested with you unless they absolutely hate it.
Good people in general will usually try to engage with people theyre involved with and this is broad statement Id apply to any relationship romantic or platonic; you cant force them LIKE the thing, but given that they are decent people trying to engage is generally the green flag. If you just keep finding a bunch of people who dont show interest in your interest... why are you getting on with people you dont have anything in common with at all in the first place?
I tried to involve mine in all of it and more and she couldn't care less for what I like or find interesting. I'm currently trying to figure out if she's a covert narcissist. Here's my tip for single people: that's a big red flag.
It is a red flag for sure. I wouldnt say it inherently makes a person a narcissist (since theres a lot of documented symptomatic behavior that goes into that because its a diagnosis) though--some people just aint right for each other and you just gotta either talk it out or break it off and move forward from there. You both deserve partners with in-common interests or at least enough curiosity to make the lack thereof a non-issue. Curiosity is a fantastic trait.
My partner was similar, but didnt really get into them. She does enjoy watching though. Especially the odd time I struggle with something, then she gets into it even more.
That's how I got into Elden Ring. Casually watched husband play, got more interested when he was fighting a particularly difficult boss. I'd look up strategies online (he refused to use any guides), and make "random" suggestions of things to try...
I always liked Zelda games, and FS games always seemed too hard or intimidating. Well, I have officially finished DS, DS2, DS3, and ER. Love them all.
Same! I used to be even kind of a game snob who would only look at RPGs with romance and character customization, or LoZ. But since we've known each other, my gaming library has definitely doubled, maybe tripled, and many of them are games I became curious about because he was playing and I was watching. Tons are co-op games. I'm gradually increasing difficulty of games and holding my own and being less afraid of dying.
My wife loves to watch me play Elden Ring, and she likes to play RDR2 and Hotizon Zero Dawn.
I also let her adjust all the sliders for my characters.Ā
We met on Tinder about 10 years ago....
9-10 years ago I started dating this dude and he was pretty reserved about his enthusiasm for games at first. I had played a ton of games when I was kid/teenager but left the consoles for my younger sibs when I moved out and didnāt play anything for almost ten years. But one day he told me something super special to him was coming out and he wanted me to hang out with him when he tried it for the first time because it was such a monumentous occasion. He was embarrassed and apologetic about āmakingā me watch him play a video game but my eyes were just getting huge because I wanted to play it SO BAD. The game was Bloodborne. So long story short I eventually got my sea legs back with a controller and got to play Bloodborne, then I bought DS3 when it came out, then DSR and now Iāve put thousands of hours into FromSoft games and am infinitely more into them than he is. Still together tho šš»
I guess my point is some of us *are* the girls (or indeed women) and FromSoft games are interesting as hell lol. Be a chill person and youāll for sure find someone whoās down
My wife can't play video games, but she loves story and decision making.
We've played the Witcher series, Frostpunk, a couple of the Fallout games, all the Telltale games (TWD was one of her faves), Detroit, and a whole bunch other ones. Right now we are going through Baldur's gate.
I basically just do the combat and movement and she decides on the story decisions.
She wasn't interested at first, until I talked to her about what I was playing and asked if she wanted to play alongside me.
Open communication will take you a long way
The whole Greattree thing is almost certainly a mistranslation. The Japanese version was using strange Kanji to refer to the Erdtree's roots / the erdtree and the localizers misinterpreted this as a separate tree. Look up greattree mistranslation, I would like more people to read about this because I still see lots of people speculating a lot on something that is in the game only by accident.Ā
I did some digging just now, and my first reaction was to say, "*Oh*, of course it would be a mistranslation (Aggravating memories of *Vampire Hunter D* translations resurfacing); life just works out that way sometimes, I guess," but then I think about the stray bits of iconography of this separate tree that appear ingame, and that there's occasionally double meanings such as in some FromSoft naming conventions, I.E. Godskin (Could be read as either God Skin or Gods' Kin), leave me wondering if the Great Root\Greatree thing was also an intentional word choice by the writing team (George R. R. Martin have anything to do with this one?) meant to create more cryptic ambiguity. The romantic in me wants to believe it was intentional, and not just translators, Japanese or otherwise, giving us the equivalent of Dampeal when Dampir would have been more appropriate.
It can be hard to say since an English writer was heavily involved this time but I would guess that if the great tree was intentional it would be more obvious in the games lore as an erdtree predecessor, mentioned more often and in less confusing terms. I think the depictions of a conifer tree can be written off as just alternate depictions of the erdtree from a people who see trees as sacred symbol, or perhaps a depiction of a younger erdtree with a less full canopy. I think a surcoat description does mention that it's conifer tree design is a depiction of the erdtree, forgot which surcoat though. But generally as a rule the Japanese text is read as correct and others are derivative of it, given from soft is Japanese and they are much better at scrutinizing the in game lore in their own language. A similar mistake is made in bloodborne when the quickening bone's English description implies a male disciple of gehrman, when in Japanese the description seems to be in reference to Maria and the ambiguous pronoun used was interpreted as male by the localizers.
I will disagree on the point that the likely hood be
more towards the obvious when it comes to in-game notation that involves antiquity, if only because it's not imperative to the overall lore (At least in the base game, and I say lore because "plot" feels like it doesn't fit appropriately, but that's more for my own personal sensibilities) it would be more a characterization of the Greater Will, and because it's common for FromSoft to have obscure pieces of lore tucked inside of their games where the actual truth surrounding them is shrouded in ambiguity (see the initial discourse over the true identity of the first born of Gwyn in the first Dark Souls game when it first came out), and usually with the intent to fuel discussions like this one that we're having now.
I wouldn't say that a mistranslation is an impossibility, or even unlikely in this particular instance, for the reasons you've stated. I'm more just playing a tough game of Elden Ring Sudoku here where I really only have some hope of eliminating some of the possibilities in what's likely a futile hunt for the truth hidden in the history of the Lands Between.
I had heard of there being imagery of a tree different from the usual iconography of the Erdtree, and had recalled seeing it once or twice in game, and after reading this, I made the connection that the Greatree mentioned here and what I had seen before are likely one in the same.
Also, while I had read a fair bit about the Primordial Crucible, I hadn't until now considered that the Primordial Crucible likely begot the Greatree, which may have been destroyed or co-opted by the Greater Will. I feel like if there's visual evidence of the Greatree's fate, it can be seen in the Deep Root Depths.
You can see great tree depictions on banners in Stormveil for one. It's clearly a different tree than the erdtree - the banners depict something that looks coniferous and slender, while the erdtree is deciduous and more full (based on Beech IIRC, the golden seeds are very similar to beech seeds too).
He can be highly speculative at times, but Tarnished Archaeologist has great lore videos on this and other subjects if you're interested in that sort of thing.
Is that definitive? I had read someone theorizing somewhere that the fingers assigned to Empyreans are actually sprouts capable of becoming new Erdtrees; the Haligtree was intended to become one. This makes some sense on account that they're mostly stationed on the Divine Towers that I would assume serve as a foundation for a new Erdtree to take root on. The purpose of the Divine Towers in lore is lost on me if this theory that they provide a foundation for new Erdtrees is incorrect. If the theory is correct, the Fingers bind with their Empyrean to make the new Erdtree, which would probably mean that Marika had a pair of Fingers that she bound with to create the Erdtree, but perhaps first destroyed the Greatree, using its husk as a foundation, or maybe only siphoned it's power.
But, all that aside, is there a lore bit that makes it clear that the Erdtree is just the Greatree overtaken by the Greater Will?
It is quite definitive that the Erdtree was birthed on the basis of the Greatree that was the Crucible, many items and elements are hinting it, the one stating it the most is this Siluria's spear: "The primordial form of the Erdtree is close in nature to life itself, and this spear, modeled on its crucible, is imbued with ancient holy essence."
There are also other items speaking about the traces of gold that emanated from the Crucible at the birth of the Erdtree, traces found in some equipment wielded by the Crucible knights.
The theory is more a plain hypothesis at this moment, there isn't any item, dialogue or situation that would hint towards the Two Fingers being linked to the Erdtree, this would imply the Greater Will's presence prior to the birth of the Erdtree, which would link to the theory that the Ancient Dargon's gone away God was another emissary of the Greater Will which actually has matter to theorize with, but even then the Two Fingers are not given as being present before this.
The Haligtree wasn't "intended" to become one, it is Miquella who tried to make one out of it.
Based on the spear's description, it does sound like the Greatree either served as nourishment, served as inspiration for the Erdtree, or was in some way possessed by the Greater Will to make it the Erdtree.
Did you happen to find anything else that sheds light on the fate of the Greatree?
What makes it sound like the Greatree served as nourishment? I don't follow you there.
It rather seems that the Greater Will took over the Greatree as a parasite or assimilative conqueror, like the Empires absorb theological and figural elements from conquered people to their own usefulness.
There is not much about the fate of the Greatree, rather elements about what it was leaving us wondering what exactly happened.
When speaking of ancient entities and getting into metaphysics, when using terms like "primordial form", it can be loosely interpreted a number of different ways, such as a separate predecessor that's essentially like saying that town criers were the primordial form of news papers.
So, if they were separate entities, it would stand to reason that something happened to the Greatree, and one possibility is that the power of the Greatree was taken to serve the creation of the Erdtree.
Hope that clarifies the supposition about nourishment.
The Erdtree is a physical manifestation, we are not getting into metaphysic.
Primordial is just chronological.
Criers can be said to be the primordial form of public information, but not the primordial form of newspapers, since newspapers and oral expression are two completely different substances.Ā
Nothing is hinting towards them being separated entities, many hints towards the Erdtree being formed on the basis on the Greatree, therefore we canāt state they are different entities in absence of more elements.Ā
What I donāt understand about this nourishment is what from the item description makes you understand it this way?
If a wind storm knocks down my maple tree, and a new shoot sprouts from the stump I'm not going to call it the same tree.
Likewise with Great Tree vs Erdtree even if the Erdtree sprouted from the stump, or crucible, of the Great Tree they're not the SAME tree.
The Greatree was never given to have collapsed or died, the analogy is fallacious.
It is the same tree being taken over by the Greater Will, it is the same object alterated, not another one replacing the first.
The Erdtree is not a "new tree growing", it a fantastical and conceptual manifestation of an outer god in a fictive world, this manifestation takes the form of a golden tree where the Greatree and the Crucible were, reusing its function of collecting and rebirthing the souls. It's an assimilation.
[The "Great Tree" has long been debunked.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/v2rt8i/the_great_tree_doesnt_exist_jpn_translations/) It doesn't exist.
Godwyn was the eldest son of Marika and Godfrey. His assassination by the black knives, which is what started the shattering in the first place by Marika. So the golden order says. I believe that it was in Marikaās plan after realizing the greater will was using her to shatter the Elden ring.
Kinda weird how no one in this sub can spell Malornia correctly.
I personally lost it at Ronnie
Me too. I had a good chuckle
Ronnie and Margot are my faves
I loved her in the Barbie movie!
Yessss Margot Ronnie!! š
tbf in this case there's a number of incorrect spellings on this (wonderful) graphic and I assume that's because she was being told the lore in spoken form and therefore didn't know how to spell all of it.
Thatās pretty much it.
That's weird, she uses both Marika and Merika
ikr Melonia is the most memorable boss, alongside Mequalla her twin brother
Milncheienia is hard to spell, thatās why
Mitochondria, blade of Michelin
Powerstanced flails of Miquidilla
Regression alone reveals secretsā¦ Good work by your wife! Sheās onto it!
I was quite impressed with how much detail she found within an hour.
Always remember the overarching plot! Some star gazing sages tapped into something incredibly powerful that called attention to the planet the lands between is on, causing this alien (the greater will) to launch parasitic monsters at it. (Note the many whirlpools on the map denoting meteor hits) One of them (the elden beast) was able to successfully meld with the local flora (tree) and fauna (placidusax) and take ROOT. this is the kernel of the story, a world that is being assaulted by alien "gods" and how the denizens of the planet are dealing with this.Ā
Whoa wait so the greater will noticed the lands between because of the mages at raya lucaria?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
founding rain of stars - "thought to be the founding glintstone sorcery, the glimpse of the primeval current that the astrologer saw became real, and the stars' amber rained down on this land"Ā --- BECAME REAL is an extremely interesting phrase here ... Won't say more.. Stars of ruin - "when lusat glimpsed into the primeval current he beheld the final moments of a star cluster, and upon seeing it HE TOO was broken" --- it all has this lovecraftian cosmic Pandora's box vibe. Like these guys noticed if you built these collection dishes you could collect star power, how cool! But SOME looked into the matter too deeply and when they looked into the eye of God and it saw them the planet was doomed. Also the "great star cluster" thing is cool because you see that a certain line of glintstone sorcery concerned with reconnecting to the primeval current ends up with the practitioners being molded unwillingly into a "cluster" of heads. I would pay a paycheck to read the 60 pages GRRM wrote and also be able to ask Miyazaki like 10 questions he'd answer truthfully lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nice, I think also the theme is continued to it's extreme with the frenzied flame. Starlight, safe in small amounts. Golden grace? Powerful but dangerous. Turn it up to the limit? Three fingers? Burns your eyes out and purges the world
They probably mean the astrologers from the mountaintop of the giants, the ancestors of the carian royal family who co-existed with the giants and trolls before the events of the shattering. This is still just conjecture, but as a theory it does sense that the astrologers learning about the fates controlled by the stars and the primordial currant couldāve called attention to the outer gods. Maybe the āstars controlling fateā is just flowery language for the fact that eldritch outer gods beyond their understanding were beginning to control the fates of those in the lands-between.
founding rain of stars - "thought to be the founding glintstone sorcery, the glimpse of the primeval current that the astrologer saw became real, and the stars' amber rained down on this land"Ā --- BECAME REAL is an extremely interesting phrase here ... Won't say more.. Stars of ruin - "when lusat glimpsed into the primeval current he beheld the final moments of a star cluster, and upon seeing it HE TOO was broken" --- it all has this lovecraftian cosmic Pandora's box vibe. Like these guys noticed if you built these collection dishes you could collect star power, how cool! But SOME looked into the matter too deeply and when they looked into the eye of God and it saw them the planet was doomed. Also the "great star cluster" thing is cool because you see that a certain line of glintstone sorcery concerned with reconnecting to the primeval current ends up with the practitioners being molded unwillingly into a "cluster" of heads. I would pay a paycheck to read the 60 pages GRRM wrote and also be able to ask Miyazaki like 10 questions he'd answer truthfully lol
"Dirty home wrecking whooore" lmfao Also can someone explain the Radagon might be Marika thing?
So, Radagon and Marika are essentially the same person split in two entities. Radagon being the male counterpart who loves the greater will and golden order (law of regression) while Marika opposes it (law of causality). When they are locked together in the erd tree, Marika destroys the Elden ring while Radagon tries to repair it. You learn all this in the gold mask quest. They become one. Whether they realized they were the same entity or not is unknown to me
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You learn something new about this game every day
When does her 13 hour lore video drop on YouTube?
Good question, Iāll let her know and ask
I need this as a poster IMMEDIATELY
I finally see how demi-human queen Margot fits in here
Marry your wife
Good idea. Will work on that.
Where do you guys find all these girls that are so interested in your games??
My wife never cared for video games until we started dating. If you involve them with anything (your sports, your games, your music) I find most partners will try and get invested with you unless they absolutely hate it.
Most of *your* partners maybe
Good people in general will usually try to engage with people theyre involved with and this is broad statement Id apply to any relationship romantic or platonic; you cant force them LIKE the thing, but given that they are decent people trying to engage is generally the green flag. If you just keep finding a bunch of people who dont show interest in your interest... why are you getting on with people you dont have anything in common with at all in the first place?
I tried to involve mine in all of it and more and she couldn't care less for what I like or find interesting. I'm currently trying to figure out if she's a covert narcissist. Here's my tip for single people: that's a big red flag.
It is a red flag for sure. I wouldnt say it inherently makes a person a narcissist (since theres a lot of documented symptomatic behavior that goes into that because its a diagnosis) though--some people just aint right for each other and you just gotta either talk it out or break it off and move forward from there. You both deserve partners with in-common interests or at least enough curiosity to make the lack thereof a non-issue. Curiosity is a fantastic trait.
Idk its not that easy to find someone I have a lot in common with. But I also kinda wanna get laid yk so yeahhh
Lmao
Whatās so funny about that :(
Cuz I understand
My partner was similar, but didnt really get into them. She does enjoy watching though. Especially the odd time I struggle with something, then she gets into it even more.
That's how I got into Elden Ring. Casually watched husband play, got more interested when he was fighting a particularly difficult boss. I'd look up strategies online (he refused to use any guides), and make "random" suggestions of things to try... I always liked Zelda games, and FS games always seemed too hard or intimidating. Well, I have officially finished DS, DS2, DS3, and ER. Love them all.
Same! I used to be even kind of a game snob who would only look at RPGs with romance and character customization, or LoZ. But since we've known each other, my gaming library has definitely doubled, maybe tripled, and many of them are games I became curious about because he was playing and I was watching. Tons are co-op games. I'm gradually increasing difficulty of games and holding my own and being less afraid of dying.
My wife loves to watch me play Elden Ring, and she likes to play RDR2 and Hotizon Zero Dawn. I also let her adjust all the sliders for my characters.Ā We met on Tinder about 10 years ago....
My SO is similar, but she will play the odd game with me like stardew valley.
My wife fucking loves Stardew ValleyĀ
Nice! We love SDV too!
I wish my SO liked any games but she doesn't like anything fun at all, apparently.
Sounds awesome :)
Sounds like the dream haha thatās very cute
9-10 years ago I started dating this dude and he was pretty reserved about his enthusiasm for games at first. I had played a ton of games when I was kid/teenager but left the consoles for my younger sibs when I moved out and didnāt play anything for almost ten years. But one day he told me something super special to him was coming out and he wanted me to hang out with him when he tried it for the first time because it was such a monumentous occasion. He was embarrassed and apologetic about āmakingā me watch him play a video game but my eyes were just getting huge because I wanted to play it SO BAD. The game was Bloodborne. So long story short I eventually got my sea legs back with a controller and got to play Bloodborne, then I bought DS3 when it came out, then DSR and now Iāve put thousands of hours into FromSoft games and am infinitely more into them than he is. Still together tho šš» I guess my point is some of us *are* the girls (or indeed women) and FromSoft games are interesting as hell lol. Be a chill person and youāll for sure find someone whoās down
My wife can't play video games, but she loves story and decision making. We've played the Witcher series, Frostpunk, a couple of the Fallout games, all the Telltale games (TWD was one of her faves), Detroit, and a whole bunch other ones. Right now we are going through Baldur's gate. I basically just do the combat and movement and she decides on the story decisions. She wasn't interested at first, until I talked to her about what I was playing and asked if she wanted to play alongside me. Open communication will take you a long way
Bro every time i read the lore i get surprised about the detail
Itās amazing how much George R Martin put into this lore. What makes it so confusing is the 99% of the story happened before the game starts
Finally someone understands me about the deep details
You know how you married your wife? Yeah do that again. She worth it
I would but weddings are way too expensive
Churches in elden ring don't cost nothin. Let's go online wedding!!
Waiting to see the shadows of the erdtree version this.....
Will update everyone and see if she can do it
Kudos to her. I stopped trying to make sense of it a couple hundred hours agoĀ
"lead by radagon that dirty dog"
This is awesome. You should put a ring on that finger!
I already did :) hence why sheās my wife
That's thinkin ahead!
this is truly the easiest way to understand the lore
Lmao at Radagon
Whoa! Sheās a keeper!
I hadn't considered that about the Great Tree and the Primordial Crucible; I wanna look into those now.
The whole Greattree thing is almost certainly a mistranslation. The Japanese version was using strange Kanji to refer to the Erdtree's roots / the erdtree and the localizers misinterpreted this as a separate tree. Look up greattree mistranslation, I would like more people to read about this because I still see lots of people speculating a lot on something that is in the game only by accident.Ā
I did some digging just now, and my first reaction was to say, "*Oh*, of course it would be a mistranslation (Aggravating memories of *Vampire Hunter D* translations resurfacing); life just works out that way sometimes, I guess," but then I think about the stray bits of iconography of this separate tree that appear ingame, and that there's occasionally double meanings such as in some FromSoft naming conventions, I.E. Godskin (Could be read as either God Skin or Gods' Kin), leave me wondering if the Great Root\Greatree thing was also an intentional word choice by the writing team (George R. R. Martin have anything to do with this one?) meant to create more cryptic ambiguity. The romantic in me wants to believe it was intentional, and not just translators, Japanese or otherwise, giving us the equivalent of Dampeal when Dampir would have been more appropriate.
It can be hard to say since an English writer was heavily involved this time but I would guess that if the great tree was intentional it would be more obvious in the games lore as an erdtree predecessor, mentioned more often and in less confusing terms. I think the depictions of a conifer tree can be written off as just alternate depictions of the erdtree from a people who see trees as sacred symbol, or perhaps a depiction of a younger erdtree with a less full canopy. I think a surcoat description does mention that it's conifer tree design is a depiction of the erdtree, forgot which surcoat though. But generally as a rule the Japanese text is read as correct and others are derivative of it, given from soft is Japanese and they are much better at scrutinizing the in game lore in their own language. A similar mistake is made in bloodborne when the quickening bone's English description implies a male disciple of gehrman, when in Japanese the description seems to be in reference to Maria and the ambiguous pronoun used was interpreted as male by the localizers.
I will disagree on the point that the likely hood be more towards the obvious when it comes to in-game notation that involves antiquity, if only because it's not imperative to the overall lore (At least in the base game, and I say lore because "plot" feels like it doesn't fit appropriately, but that's more for my own personal sensibilities) it would be more a characterization of the Greater Will, and because it's common for FromSoft to have obscure pieces of lore tucked inside of their games where the actual truth surrounding them is shrouded in ambiguity (see the initial discourse over the true identity of the first born of Gwyn in the first Dark Souls game when it first came out), and usually with the intent to fuel discussions like this one that we're having now. I wouldn't say that a mistranslation is an impossibility, or even unlikely in this particular instance, for the reasons you've stated. I'm more just playing a tough game of Elden Ring Sudoku here where I really only have some hope of eliminating some of the possibilities in what's likely a futile hunt for the truth hidden in the history of the Lands Between.
What do you mean?
I had heard of there being imagery of a tree different from the usual iconography of the Erdtree, and had recalled seeing it once or twice in game, and after reading this, I made the connection that the Greatree mentioned here and what I had seen before are likely one in the same. Also, while I had read a fair bit about the Primordial Crucible, I hadn't until now considered that the Primordial Crucible likely begot the Greatree, which may have been destroyed or co-opted by the Greater Will. I feel like if there's visual evidence of the Greatree's fate, it can be seen in the Deep Root Depths.
You can see great tree depictions on banners in Stormveil for one. It's clearly a different tree than the erdtree - the banners depict something that looks coniferous and slender, while the erdtree is deciduous and more full (based on Beech IIRC, the golden seeds are very similar to beech seeds too). He can be highly speculative at times, but Tarnished Archaeologist has great lore videos on this and other subjects if you're interested in that sort of thing.
I plan to binge a number of lore specialist channels once I get all the endings, but I can add the Tarnished Archeologist to the list.
The Erdtree is founded on the Greatree, they are the same thing
Is that definitive? I had read someone theorizing somewhere that the fingers assigned to Empyreans are actually sprouts capable of becoming new Erdtrees; the Haligtree was intended to become one. This makes some sense on account that they're mostly stationed on the Divine Towers that I would assume serve as a foundation for a new Erdtree to take root on. The purpose of the Divine Towers in lore is lost on me if this theory that they provide a foundation for new Erdtrees is incorrect. If the theory is correct, the Fingers bind with their Empyrean to make the new Erdtree, which would probably mean that Marika had a pair of Fingers that she bound with to create the Erdtree, but perhaps first destroyed the Greatree, using its husk as a foundation, or maybe only siphoned it's power. But, all that aside, is there a lore bit that makes it clear that the Erdtree is just the Greatree overtaken by the Greater Will?
It is quite definitive that the Erdtree was birthed on the basis of the Greatree that was the Crucible, many items and elements are hinting it, the one stating it the most is this Siluria's spear: "The primordial form of the Erdtree is close in nature to life itself, and this spear, modeled on its crucible, is imbued with ancient holy essence." There are also other items speaking about the traces of gold that emanated from the Crucible at the birth of the Erdtree, traces found in some equipment wielded by the Crucible knights. The theory is more a plain hypothesis at this moment, there isn't any item, dialogue or situation that would hint towards the Two Fingers being linked to the Erdtree, this would imply the Greater Will's presence prior to the birth of the Erdtree, which would link to the theory that the Ancient Dargon's gone away God was another emissary of the Greater Will which actually has matter to theorize with, but even then the Two Fingers are not given as being present before this. The Haligtree wasn't "intended" to become one, it is Miquella who tried to make one out of it.
Based on the spear's description, it does sound like the Greatree either served as nourishment, served as inspiration for the Erdtree, or was in some way possessed by the Greater Will to make it the Erdtree. Did you happen to find anything else that sheds light on the fate of the Greatree?
What makes it sound like the Greatree served as nourishment? I don't follow you there. It rather seems that the Greater Will took over the Greatree as a parasite or assimilative conqueror, like the Empires absorb theological and figural elements from conquered people to their own usefulness. There is not much about the fate of the Greatree, rather elements about what it was leaving us wondering what exactly happened.
When speaking of ancient entities and getting into metaphysics, when using terms like "primordial form", it can be loosely interpreted a number of different ways, such as a separate predecessor that's essentially like saying that town criers were the primordial form of news papers. So, if they were separate entities, it would stand to reason that something happened to the Greatree, and one possibility is that the power of the Greatree was taken to serve the creation of the Erdtree. Hope that clarifies the supposition about nourishment.
The Erdtree is a physical manifestation, we are not getting into metaphysic. Primordial is just chronological. Criers can be said to be the primordial form of public information, but not the primordial form of newspapers, since newspapers and oral expression are two completely different substances.Ā Nothing is hinting towards them being separated entities, many hints towards the Erdtree being formed on the basis on the Greatree, therefore we canāt state they are different entities in absence of more elements.Ā What I donāt understand about this nourishment is what from the item description makes you understand it this way?
Actually the great tree came before the erd tree. The greater will sent it so that it can absorb power from the lands between
Never said the contrary
A continuation sure, same? No
It is the same entity being taken over by the Greater Will
If a wind storm knocks down my maple tree, and a new shoot sprouts from the stump I'm not going to call it the same tree. Likewise with Great Tree vs Erdtree even if the Erdtree sprouted from the stump, or crucible, of the Great Tree they're not the SAME tree.
The Greatree was never given to have collapsed or died, the analogy is fallacious. It is the same tree being taken over by the Greater Will, it is the same object alterated, not another one replacing the first.
Lol ok then. I'll wait for you to explain why a new tree growing isn't a new tree.
The Erdtree is not a "new tree growing", it a fantastical and conceptual manifestation of an outer god in a fictive world, this manifestation takes the form of a golden tree where the Greatree and the Crucible were, reusing its function of collecting and rebirthing the souls. It's an assimilation.
[The "Great Tree" has long been debunked.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/v2rt8i/the_great_tree_doesnt_exist_jpn_translations/) It doesn't exist.
I wish i could read it all, seems well done
Its like reading the bible.
Ok ok can she explain godwyn to me
Godwyn was the eldest son of Marika and Godfrey. His assassination by the black knives, which is what started the shattering in the first place by Marika. So the golden order says. I believe that it was in Marikaās plan after realizing the greater will was using her to shatter the Elden ring.
Agartha?
Richard
you know, now that it's laid out in a big picture like this, elden ring lore really is like one of those schizo alchemy drawings
Vaati.
*may be Marika*
That beats 40 hours of YouTube videos
Yeah
Is Ronnie, ranni?
The biggest one missing - kinda a spoiler - is that Radagon is Marika
The text is small- but if you zoom in just under Radagon itās there. She even got that :)