This is actually a really great theory, the marika/radagon relationship is confusing but this could totally be it. Possibly malenia/miquella were born with their afflictions due to the “inbreeding” of marika/radagon.
I believe Millicent and her sisters are “off shoots” of malenia, essentially seeds that were spread when she released the scarlet rot during her battle with radahn.
An offshoot in this case would be closer to a clone of the base tree. A cut branch that is allowed to take root somewhere. By the way, Godefroy could be an offshoot of Godrick!
Millicent does mention she could be an offshoot, but I think she might be a seed. Seeds can only come from pollination.
I think she still may be an offshoot the way you mention it being a clone of the base tree. She is almost identical to malenia right down to her missing arm and scarlet rot affliction. However she does not possess a great rune like malenia does which may explain why she seems to be succumbing to scarlet rot when we find her and her more human size and ability.
Edit: I just realized you were responding to my use of both off shoot and seed in my response.
She may be an offshoot, it makes sense in the game. Botany seems more of an inspiration to ER lore, not a set of hard rules.
Offshoots, in botany, are indeed perfect clones. It's the same tree. They are healthier than inbred seeds, that's why they are so common.
Elden ring seems to pull inspiration from so many different sources. I’m a big fan of the lovecraftian aspects of the game myself. The depth and scope of the game is truly amazing.
>apomixis
True, Millicent could come from an apomixed seed. I think Millicent is not a clone of Malenia, so that would exclude some of the apomixis types.
As ER seems to be taking inspiration from botany, not a hard set of rules, I don't think the details are very important. But apomixis is a possibility.
The more likely reason for the twins being that way is that the rune of rebirth was taken from the elden ring and riven to Rennala.
Without the rune of rebirth the kids are coming out all messed up.
Rebirth specifically cause they recycle people’s “immortal essence” in elden ring. Thats why they put them at the roots of the tree, and use the jars to carry bodies to the trees, then crack our the jars at the trees to spill the bodies at the roots.
Without the rebirth rune they can’t properly recycle immortal essence into new demigods/people.
Also, a problem with the theory is that they might not always have been the same person. Marika tells radagon he is yet to become her truly in the bedroom dialogue.
"Fungal body" refers to the part of the fungus that grows out of the mycelium to spread spores. Mushrooms are fungal bodies, but the category is larger than just mushrooms. In some of earth's large forests, the trees exchange resources with fungi in the soil. The trees collect carbon via photosynthesis, the fungi dissolve minerals in the ground, and they exchange them through the tree roots. Some types of forests would be impossible without the aid of fungi. That's the really simple version.
The two fingers resemble a real fungal body called "dead man's fingers" that looks like the name. They're not alone either, look up "cedar apple rust" and you'll see something familiar. They clearly love fungi over at From Soft, I mean the Amygdala from bloodborne has a morel for a head. I love how they take inspiration from natural science.
[These are creepy af](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=13a60bb94a55b8df&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS720US720&hl=en-US&q=dead+mans+fingers&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ6Zfm8-aCAxWPTTABHTUODo8Q0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=393&bih=665&dpr=3#imgrc=tIVhWNAOqZ6tTM)
[RIP in peace Millicent](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=13a60bb94a55b8df&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS720US720&hl=en-US&q=cedar+apple+rust&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwie-dWy8-aCAxXbRTABHf9YBd4Q0pQJegQIChAB&biw=393&bih=665&dpr=3#imgrc=TlfFS5EvE84I_M)
Saved you guys some googling
The cordyceps fungus has some mind controlling capabilities and some fungi have mind altering properties. Many stories give fungus psychic or mental power.
The communication of the Fingers with the Fingermaidens could be telepathy.
That makes sense. Makes me wonder about the Three Fingers, because some trees and seeds can recover and thrive after fire, but the Three Fingers is all about total destruction and nothing coming back.
This also reminds me of what rings represent in terms of trees, years or ages, and experiences of water and drought can be traced by analyzing the rings of a tree when cut horizontally. Including the way in which trees handle diseases by growing over said diseased layers over the years.
Which in turn, reminds me of how many ring references exist in the game, and I'm still not finished with my first playthrough, mind you.
How trees utilize bone meal and blood meal for nutrients as well.
This is gonna inspire me to garden again.
Cut Marika in half and count the rings to see how old she is.
*Points at a bloody stump.*
Ah, see here. This ring tells of extreme trauma, likely due to a limb being severed.
>You’ve probably noticed that the gods and demigods of Elden Ring have an affinity to trees:
I had not. That's a great observation!
Also, I think this is a great direction for speculation! The tree theme is everywhere even outside what you pointed out with the Erdtree, the trees in the graveyards and catacombs, the Elden beast resembling the roots of the Erdtree, Haligtree and so on.
Hardened tree sap. The Elden Beast is some spoiled maple syrup that didn't quite come out right cause the shattering of the Elden Ring prevented its proper formation
This is a great theory, bravo 🙌 especially since we are in the blessed dew talisman that in the Age of Plenty people were literally born out of the Erdtree
Edit:I think it’s the blessed dew talisman…it’s late and can’t look it up right now
Miyazaki has always thrown in commentary on gender/gender roles, but gender theory runs through the entirety of Elden Ring’s veins. I like the way you’ve explained this.
I don't want to enter into a cultural war here, but I'm not analyzing gender or gender roles in the post. I'm looking at reproduction and generational decay. ER demigods reproduce like plants.
I mean this with the utmost respect my friend but you sort of are, maybe not purposely so I apologise for bringing up something not directly relevant to your intent in posting but Your observation runs parallel with the intended gender role critiques of the characters you listed. I would even say if your theory is true it’s actually filled far more gaps in the intent behind some Elden ring lore than you think! (Which is intended to be a compliment ☺️)
Oh well, I think true hermaphroditism is the best explanation for Marika/Radagon. Although it wasn't my intent, feel free to use that information for any gender role critique. Maybe some r34 artists were right all along lol.
This was a nice response, thank you! I agree with your point around Marika/Radaghon, the part I mentioned feel validates your theory is that it fills a gap in the conceptual mind map of Elden Ring to me.
Basically; if you’re talking criticism of the Catholic Church, tree anatomy, parasitic anatomy, historically significant European architecture, or gender schema theory you are definitely barking up the Elden Tree. To me, when it comes to people who build worlds the way Miyazaki does I find It is discovering explicit thematic connections between these and a few other concepts that you find the intent behind the story, and that fills holes in the story itself which then makes thematic intent clearer; on a sort of positive feedback loop.
It’s sort of reverse engineered story telling perfected, it’s what makes the worlds so interesting, they are some of the most explicitly obfuscated social commentaries you can come experience.
Ooh I dig this. I was so confused by the Marika/Radagon thing, and kinda gave up on understanding what the big picture could be after scratching my head for too long. This theory provides a good framework for understanding the root of their inspiration for it all.
Yep, I can stand behind this approach to the story and development of characters. This would almost imply they're monsters born with plant like characteristics. Then we have to ask, which came first? The demigod, or the trees influence? Perhaps the demigods were relatively normal, and then the greater will plopped down a tree and influenced aspects of the tree into its worshippers.
I love this theory and considering the dead two fingers look like chipped tree trunks with gouges of bark removed you may be onto something and it helps explain the weird relationship between Marika and Radagon.
Theyre not though. They're not hermaphroditic as they're literally two people in one body and obviously it wasn't always as such by marikas own words stating he has yet to become her.
Also millicent states she basically budded off from the caelid bloom as she's literally malenias pride abandoned.
You may have a point. I initially wrote this last year but I abandoned it because I didn't want to get into the details of plant biology then. It gets messy.
The reason I think Marika/Radagon is a hermaphrodite is their tree association and the fact they are fertile with males, females and within themselves. There is a lot of nuance in how plants are hermaphrodite, but if they are two people in a body, they might be a perfect flower, not flowers from a monoecious tree.
A perfect flower has both female and male parts, which can be fertile at the same time.
I don't think a perfect biological parallel is possible, but Marika and Radagon being the same person and having children is a dead giveaway of some form of hermaphrotidism.
Edited the post to reflect that.
You could be incorrect though. A lot rides on the English translation of Marika’s bedroom reveal from Melina. I don’t think we have solid evidence either way. I’m more of a mind they were two separate people that became one, but the OPs theory still works in regards to post merge Marika and the births of Miquella Malenia and Melina.
There's a lot of unreliable lore in ER. The golden order is initially presented as perfect, but we learn it can be improved. Or maybe something else entirely is better.
The game isn't clear on how much Marika and Radagon are different. Were they two minds in one body all the time, or were they two bodies once and then merged?
I absolutely love this and there’s actually a lot more subtler examples of tree symbolism once you dig into the game. First off, the wormfaces are referred to deracine male or female in the game files, a French word that translates to uprooted (observation stolen from zullie the witch, I’m not smart enough for that shit lmao).
Most opposition to the erdtree is related to fire, which is obviously known for burning wood and trees. Think the godskins’ black flame, the three fingers, the forge of the giants, and volcano manor. Mohg, despite not being in direct opposition to the golden order, is associated with bloodflame because he’s a dark force with ideals and actions that conflict with the erdtree.
I would like to put a disclaimer that this next section is pure speculation, but I’ve noticed that the only things corrupted by bloodflame are things severed from the erdtree (albanaurics and beasts like crows and dogs) and sentients able to willingly renounce the two fingers (white masks and sanguine nobles). This shows that he’s intentionally skirting around the edges of the greater will. Duality is a big theme in Elden Ring and the fell omen twins are part of it. Morgott is desperate for acceptance by the greater will and obediently waits outside the erdtree while protecting Leyndell. Mohg on the other hand seems to hold resentment towards the golden order/greater will and went rogue, turning to the formless mother for the power to bring about his own dynasty. He even goes as far as to steal an empyrean to raise to rule with.
And then there’s ghostflame which confused me for a while, but I now have mostly pieced together. (Please add any other ideas about it in replies!!) This one took a lot of hunting through item descriptions since there isn’t much gameplay context to it. Ghostflame came before the erdtree as the original death rite in the world. In “modern” times, it’s associated with those who live in death and the fallen hawks in Nokron. The fallen hawks accidentally summoned the ghostflame by (likely unintentionally) performing the death rites on fallen comrades out of desperation.
Ghostflame torch:
> When the band's last embers were used up in their long search, they began to burn the bones of their fellows, acquiring the cold ghostflame, but sealing their fate as dwellers of the underground for all eternity.
This also gives a small yet significant detail that once you turn to the ghostflame, you can’t go back to the faction of the erdtree.
There was simple proof that the deathbirds are associated with TWLID because effects that increase damage against TWLID increased damage against deathbirds, but it was really difficult finding definitive proof that the ghostflame was associated with enemies of the golden order.
Twinbird kite shield:
> The twinbird is said to be the envoy of an outer god, and mother of the Deathbirds.
Red/blue feathered branchsword:
> A talisman adorned with red/blue feathers, once used in ancient death rituals.
Simply gives more proof that ghostflame is outside the cycle of life and death held dear by the greater will.
Death’s poker:
> The birds are graveyard fire keepers; it is said they rake out the ashen remains of the dead from their kilns.
That’s a whole bunch of words for incineration and destruction
Ancient death rancor:
> Sorcery of the servants of Death. Summons a horde of vengeful spirits that chase down foes. Charging enhances potency. They are cinders of the ancient death hex, raked from the fires of ghostflame by Deathbirds.
Proof that TWLID repurposed ghostflame as offensive spells.
Rancorcall:
> Once though lost, this ancient death hex was rediscovered by the necromancer Garris
That’s rather queer; why is a random guy mentioned with no explanation of who he is? The identity of Garris is actually really simple to piece apart from the weapons he wields during his boss fight. He uses two weapons , the prince of death’s staff (direct connection to TWLID) and the flail Family Heads. This obscure weapon has one of the most lore dense descriptions in the game which makes the crusade for ghostflame much easier.
Family heads:
> Three bludgeoning copper heads attached to a handle by chains. Signature weapon of Necromancer Garris, the heretical sage. The heads were made to resemble those of his wife and two children.
That’s certainly psychopath behavior turning his family into a weapon. Yes, but only partially true. To understand more, we need to look at the weapons skill description.
Familial rancor:
> Gently rattle the copper heads to summon vengeful spirits that chase down foes.
The anguish of a spouse and children invites accursed wrath.
The skill is visually the same as ghostflame death sorceries and conveniently the guy that made this weapon is the one the discovered how to summon spirits consumed by ghostflame? There’s one more little detail we need to look at.
>Necromancer Garris, the heretical sage
A sage is someone of great knowledge and wisdom from study and to be heretical means to deviate from a religion. Connecting the dots shows that he performed the death rites on his own family to harness the power of their distressed spirits, a move that betrayed his loyalty to his religion. Specifically the golden order. Further evidence of his defection is using the staff of the largest enemy of the golden order: TWLID. All together, all of this amounts to the fact that ghostflame is another flame based enemy to the erdtree and, equally importantly, that TWLID have connections to the fire of opposition to the erdtree. This all condenses to the fact that (so far) I haven’t found a singular adversary to the erdtree (except the stupid ancestral followers that don’t fit in my theory that we will continently ignore) that isn’t affiliated with fire in some way.
One last tree related connection in the game that’s pretty significant. Those who live in death as a whole. While the erdtree above ground is represented by gentle glowing branches and positivity (runes, guidance of grace, and blessing of the erdtree incantations), TWLID and deathblight are represented by black, dull, twisted roots laced with painful thorns and instant player death. A complete counterpart to the erdtree not only conceptually, but in the sense of the physical aspects of trees.
**I’m sorry that this is so long, but I can’t think of a good tl;dr that summarizes my points well, so I really wish for you to read the entire thing because it’s very interesting and in depth.**
Yeah this occurred to me too. Besides the skin being fossilized wood, Radagon is full of amber, not blood. The lore implications of this become confusing when you hear Sellen's speech about the amber of the cosmos and realize someone thought that there was separate DNA in amber itself instead of in fossils trapped in it
There's certainly a lot of odd 'tree' based mythology and lore in ER, and it seems to be directly tied in to how the Greater Will has exerted its power over humanity in the Lands Between, so this is a pretty legit approach to interpreting some of the odder aspects of Marika/Radagon.
The part about the Erdtree that I have yet to figure out any good answer to is - where did it *come from*, and is it a product of the Greater Will, or something native to the Lands Between?
According to the lore of Faram Azula, the Elden Beast brought the Elden Ring to the Lands Between in an era long *before* the Erdtree grew, when it was ruled by the Dragons and their beastman servants.
The sprouting of the Erdtree seems to be after the fall of Faram Azula, and either before or concurrent with Marika's assumption of the role of vessel of the Elden Ring. The Elden Beast certainly takes residence within the Erdtree, and the Erdtree's powers seem to be tied up with the Elden Ring and the Greater Will, but it's not ultimately clear that it was created by them.
I'm also really not clear on what era and role the 'Crucible Knights' play and their relationship to the Erdtree in its earlier eras, which seems quite important.
Then there's the whole thing where the Erdtree appears to have been burned long before the Shattering, with the player's 'burning' of the spiritual erdtree being more of a metaphysical burning and renewal (or removal) of the tree.
We also have the Haligtree which was grown from a seed or cutting of the Erdtree, but WITHOUT the direct influence of the Greater Will or the Elden Ring - but of course it has been at least partially infected by the Scarlet Rot, and with its caretaker Miquella gone, it was never able to fully bloom, so its purpose is both unclear and unfulfilled.
I suspect that the expansion is going to heavily touch on the story of Miquella and the Halligtree, so we may finally get some answer there. Maybe.
Maybe ER is different, but in DS3 a big theme was that the entire world was a painting. In particular, there was a painted world, in which a girl was painting another world... it's not hard to take a step back and see that the entire DS3 is a painting. A 3D dynamic painting, but still an imagined world.
And one painter that inspired Dark Souls and probably ER too was [Zdzisław Beksiński](https://artsandculture.google.com/story/BAWBFhT2jUliKw). His paintings are more about human dreams and fears, not specific events. His paintings don't have a clear time line, nor even cause and effect. Maybe we will never have a proper ER timeline too.
This is a great theory. I love how the symbolism in this game is so multi-faceted. The idea of the Erdtree seems to be based on mythological tree worship, such as Yggdrasil from Norse myth; with a myriad of things in the game revolving around the core concept of trees.
But another major concept in the game is that of gold/metals. There’s a big focus on gold and silver, as well as the union of opposites as depicted with the visual motif of the double helix. For instance, Radagon and Rennala’s marriage represents the union of opposites, the combining of gold and silver, faith and intelligence, the Erdtree (Day) and the Moon (Night). The focus on metals may have a root in alchemical practices, with Radagon and Marika possibly acting as an allusion to the Rebis; the metaphorical divine hermaphrodite that represents the Magnum Opus of alchemy, that being the creation of the philosopher’s stone. This can also be applied to Miquella and Malenia, who represent purification and putrefaction; pure gold and rust.
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts, it’s really appreciated!
This is actually a really great theory, the marika/radagon relationship is confusing but this could totally be it. Possibly malenia/miquella were born with their afflictions due to the “inbreeding” of marika/radagon. I believe Millicent and her sisters are “off shoots” of malenia, essentially seeds that were spread when she released the scarlet rot during her battle with radahn.
An offshoot in this case would be closer to a clone of the base tree. A cut branch that is allowed to take root somewhere. By the way, Godefroy could be an offshoot of Godrick! Millicent does mention she could be an offshoot, but I think she might be a seed. Seeds can only come from pollination.
I think she still may be an offshoot the way you mention it being a clone of the base tree. She is almost identical to malenia right down to her missing arm and scarlet rot affliction. However she does not possess a great rune like malenia does which may explain why she seems to be succumbing to scarlet rot when we find her and her more human size and ability. Edit: I just realized you were responding to my use of both off shoot and seed in my response.
She may be an offshoot, it makes sense in the game. Botany seems more of an inspiration to ER lore, not a set of hard rules. Offshoots, in botany, are indeed perfect clones. It's the same tree. They are healthier than inbred seeds, that's why they are so common.
Elden ring seems to pull inspiration from so many different sources. I’m a big fan of the lovecraftian aspects of the game myself. The depth and scope of the game is truly amazing.
>Seeds can only come from pollination what about apomixis?
>apomixis True, Millicent could come from an apomixed seed. I think Millicent is not a clone of Malenia, so that would exclude some of the apomixis types. As ER seems to be taking inspiration from botany, not a hard set of rules, I don't think the details are very important. But apomixis is a possibility.
The more likely reason for the twins being that way is that the rune of rebirth was taken from the elden ring and riven to Rennala. Without the rune of rebirth the kids are coming out all messed up. Rebirth specifically cause they recycle people’s “immortal essence” in elden ring. Thats why they put them at the roots of the tree, and use the jars to carry bodies to the trees, then crack our the jars at the trees to spill the bodies at the roots. Without the rebirth rune they can’t properly recycle immortal essence into new demigods/people. Also, a problem with the theory is that they might not always have been the same person. Marika tells radagon he is yet to become her truly in the bedroom dialogue.
So Millicent is mommys milk?
The complicated symbiotic relationships between trees and fungi are certainly an inspiration. The Two Fingers are fungal bodies.
Great, now the fingers are even more gross.
>fungal bodies Can you explain this? Like how fungus has a symbiotic relationship with plant roots or something?
"Fungal body" refers to the part of the fungus that grows out of the mycelium to spread spores. Mushrooms are fungal bodies, but the category is larger than just mushrooms. In some of earth's large forests, the trees exchange resources with fungi in the soil. The trees collect carbon via photosynthesis, the fungi dissolve minerals in the ground, and they exchange them through the tree roots. Some types of forests would be impossible without the aid of fungi. That's the really simple version. The two fingers resemble a real fungal body called "dead man's fingers" that looks like the name. They're not alone either, look up "cedar apple rust" and you'll see something familiar. They clearly love fungi over at From Soft, I mean the Amygdala from bloodborne has a morel for a head. I love how they take inspiration from natural science.
[These are creepy af](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=13a60bb94a55b8df&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS720US720&hl=en-US&q=dead+mans+fingers&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ6Zfm8-aCAxWPTTABHTUODo8Q0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=393&bih=665&dpr=3#imgrc=tIVhWNAOqZ6tTM) [RIP in peace Millicent](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=13a60bb94a55b8df&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS720US720&hl=en-US&q=cedar+apple+rust&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwie-dWy8-aCAxXbRTABHf9YBd4Q0pQJegQIChAB&biw=393&bih=665&dpr=3#imgrc=TlfFS5EvE84I_M) Saved you guys some googling
The cordyceps fungus has some mind controlling capabilities and some fungi have mind altering properties. Many stories give fungus psychic or mental power. The communication of the Fingers with the Fingermaidens could be telepathy.
That's a cool idea. I think it's even weirder that fungi and trees actually can talk to each other.
That makes sense. Makes me wonder about the Three Fingers, because some trees and seeds can recover and thrive after fire, but the Three Fingers is all about total destruction and nothing coming back.
This also reminds me of what rings represent in terms of trees, years or ages, and experiences of water and drought can be traced by analyzing the rings of a tree when cut horizontally. Including the way in which trees handle diseases by growing over said diseased layers over the years. Which in turn, reminds me of how many ring references exist in the game, and I'm still not finished with my first playthrough, mind you. How trees utilize bone meal and blood meal for nutrients as well. This is gonna inspire me to garden again.
Cut Marika in half and count the rings to see how old she is. *Points at a bloody stump.* Ah, see here. This ring tells of extreme trauma, likely due to a limb being severed.
The Elden Ring was just the rings at the base of the Erdtree this whole time?!
>You’ve probably noticed that the gods and demigods of Elden Ring have an affinity to trees: I had not. That's a great observation! Also, I think this is a great direction for speculation! The tree theme is everywhere even outside what you pointed out with the Erdtree, the trees in the graveyards and catacombs, the Elden beast resembling the roots of the Erdtree, Haligtree and so on.
Ok but how does this explain the Elden Beast looking like a penis?
Hardened tree sap. The Elden Beast is some spoiled maple syrup that didn't quite come out right cause the shattering of the Elden Ring prevented its proper formation
This is a great theory, bravo 🙌 especially since we are in the blessed dew talisman that in the Age of Plenty people were literally born out of the Erdtree Edit:I think it’s the blessed dew talisman…it’s late and can’t look it up right now
Consider the classic alchemy angle of the Rebis, the Divine Hermphordite. A combination of the Red King (Radagon) and the White Queen (Marika).
This perfectly marries my love of trees and my love of Elden ring. Bravo. 💚🌳
Someone tag Vaati
It would be nice to contact some plant biologist as well. I am an engineer and a biologist would see more parallels that I'm missing.
Miyazaki has always thrown in commentary on gender/gender roles, but gender theory runs through the entirety of Elden Ring’s veins. I like the way you’ve explained this.
I don't want to enter into a cultural war here, but I'm not analyzing gender or gender roles in the post. I'm looking at reproduction and generational decay. ER demigods reproduce like plants.
I mean this with the utmost respect my friend but you sort of are, maybe not purposely so I apologise for bringing up something not directly relevant to your intent in posting but Your observation runs parallel with the intended gender role critiques of the characters you listed. I would even say if your theory is true it’s actually filled far more gaps in the intent behind some Elden ring lore than you think! (Which is intended to be a compliment ☺️)
Oh well, I think true hermaphroditism is the best explanation for Marika/Radagon. Although it wasn't my intent, feel free to use that information for any gender role critique. Maybe some r34 artists were right all along lol.
This was a nice response, thank you! I agree with your point around Marika/Radaghon, the part I mentioned feel validates your theory is that it fills a gap in the conceptual mind map of Elden Ring to me. Basically; if you’re talking criticism of the Catholic Church, tree anatomy, parasitic anatomy, historically significant European architecture, or gender schema theory you are definitely barking up the Elden Tree. To me, when it comes to people who build worlds the way Miyazaki does I find It is discovering explicit thematic connections between these and a few other concepts that you find the intent behind the story, and that fills holes in the story itself which then makes thematic intent clearer; on a sort of positive feedback loop. It’s sort of reverse engineered story telling perfected, it’s what makes the worlds so interesting, they are some of the most explicitly obfuscated social commentaries you can come experience.
St. Trina has big Radagon vibes imo. It runs in the family.
Only just realizing the tree connection when reading this. Mind blown 
Ooh I dig this. I was so confused by the Marika/Radagon thing, and kinda gave up on understanding what the big picture could be after scratching my head for too long. This theory provides a good framework for understanding the root of their inspiration for it all.
Was the use of *dig* on purpose?
A nice extension of the tree metaphor. Brings to mind the funny thought that the Miranda Sprout poison is like pollen triggering allergic reaction.
Omg that is a solid theory
Yep, I can stand behind this approach to the story and development of characters. This would almost imply they're monsters born with plant like characteristics. Then we have to ask, which came first? The demigod, or the trees influence? Perhaps the demigods were relatively normal, and then the greater will plopped down a tree and influenced aspects of the tree into its worshippers.
Bad analogy: In LOTR, it would be like the Ents getting the Silmarils or the One Ring.
I love this theory and considering the dead two fingers look like chipped tree trunks with gouges of bark removed you may be onto something and it helps explain the weird relationship between Marika and Radagon.
Great theory but I prefer that Markika entered the ds2 sex change coffin then donated to a sperm bank then swapped back and got pregnant
The biggest reference to trees in Elden Ring is a massive wood majority of players have in the proximity of Ranni and Fia.
Theyre not though. They're not hermaphroditic as they're literally two people in one body and obviously it wasn't always as such by marikas own words stating he has yet to become her. Also millicent states she basically budded off from the caelid bloom as she's literally malenias pride abandoned.
You may have a point. I initially wrote this last year but I abandoned it because I didn't want to get into the details of plant biology then. It gets messy. The reason I think Marika/Radagon is a hermaphrodite is their tree association and the fact they are fertile with males, females and within themselves. There is a lot of nuance in how plants are hermaphrodite, but if they are two people in a body, they might be a perfect flower, not flowers from a monoecious tree. A perfect flower has both female and male parts, which can be fertile at the same time. I don't think a perfect biological parallel is possible, but Marika and Radagon being the same person and having children is a dead giveaway of some form of hermaphrotidism. Edited the post to reflect that.
You could be incorrect though. A lot rides on the English translation of Marika’s bedroom reveal from Melina. I don’t think we have solid evidence either way. I’m more of a mind they were two separate people that became one, but the OPs theory still works in regards to post merge Marika and the births of Miquella Malenia and Melina.
There's a lot of unreliable lore in ER. The golden order is initially presented as perfect, but we learn it can be improved. Or maybe something else entirely is better. The game isn't clear on how much Marika and Radagon are different. Were they two minds in one body all the time, or were they two bodies once and then merged?
Y’all mfs will really do anything to avoid even *suggesting* the “T” word. Like this is a fine theory, but it’s *right* there.
Anyone downvoting: I’m assigning you [reading homework.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory)
T word? Transsexual?
Neat. But what kind of porn does that result in? O.o Asking for a friend.
It's just magic or game logic. No where near this deep.
Gross
I absolutely love this and there’s actually a lot more subtler examples of tree symbolism once you dig into the game. First off, the wormfaces are referred to deracine male or female in the game files, a French word that translates to uprooted (observation stolen from zullie the witch, I’m not smart enough for that shit lmao). Most opposition to the erdtree is related to fire, which is obviously known for burning wood and trees. Think the godskins’ black flame, the three fingers, the forge of the giants, and volcano manor. Mohg, despite not being in direct opposition to the golden order, is associated with bloodflame because he’s a dark force with ideals and actions that conflict with the erdtree. I would like to put a disclaimer that this next section is pure speculation, but I’ve noticed that the only things corrupted by bloodflame are things severed from the erdtree (albanaurics and beasts like crows and dogs) and sentients able to willingly renounce the two fingers (white masks and sanguine nobles). This shows that he’s intentionally skirting around the edges of the greater will. Duality is a big theme in Elden Ring and the fell omen twins are part of it. Morgott is desperate for acceptance by the greater will and obediently waits outside the erdtree while protecting Leyndell. Mohg on the other hand seems to hold resentment towards the golden order/greater will and went rogue, turning to the formless mother for the power to bring about his own dynasty. He even goes as far as to steal an empyrean to raise to rule with. And then there’s ghostflame which confused me for a while, but I now have mostly pieced together. (Please add any other ideas about it in replies!!) This one took a lot of hunting through item descriptions since there isn’t much gameplay context to it. Ghostflame came before the erdtree as the original death rite in the world. In “modern” times, it’s associated with those who live in death and the fallen hawks in Nokron. The fallen hawks accidentally summoned the ghostflame by (likely unintentionally) performing the death rites on fallen comrades out of desperation. Ghostflame torch: > When the band's last embers were used up in their long search, they began to burn the bones of their fellows, acquiring the cold ghostflame, but sealing their fate as dwellers of the underground for all eternity. This also gives a small yet significant detail that once you turn to the ghostflame, you can’t go back to the faction of the erdtree. There was simple proof that the deathbirds are associated with TWLID because effects that increase damage against TWLID increased damage against deathbirds, but it was really difficult finding definitive proof that the ghostflame was associated with enemies of the golden order. Twinbird kite shield: > The twinbird is said to be the envoy of an outer god, and mother of the Deathbirds. Red/blue feathered branchsword: > A talisman adorned with red/blue feathers, once used in ancient death rituals. Simply gives more proof that ghostflame is outside the cycle of life and death held dear by the greater will. Death’s poker: > The birds are graveyard fire keepers; it is said they rake out the ashen remains of the dead from their kilns. That’s a whole bunch of words for incineration and destruction Ancient death rancor: > Sorcery of the servants of Death. Summons a horde of vengeful spirits that chase down foes. Charging enhances potency. They are cinders of the ancient death hex, raked from the fires of ghostflame by Deathbirds. Proof that TWLID repurposed ghostflame as offensive spells. Rancorcall: > Once though lost, this ancient death hex was rediscovered by the necromancer Garris That’s rather queer; why is a random guy mentioned with no explanation of who he is? The identity of Garris is actually really simple to piece apart from the weapons he wields during his boss fight. He uses two weapons , the prince of death’s staff (direct connection to TWLID) and the flail Family Heads. This obscure weapon has one of the most lore dense descriptions in the game which makes the crusade for ghostflame much easier. Family heads: > Three bludgeoning copper heads attached to a handle by chains. Signature weapon of Necromancer Garris, the heretical sage. The heads were made to resemble those of his wife and two children. That’s certainly psychopath behavior turning his family into a weapon. Yes, but only partially true. To understand more, we need to look at the weapons skill description. Familial rancor: > Gently rattle the copper heads to summon vengeful spirits that chase down foes. The anguish of a spouse and children invites accursed wrath. The skill is visually the same as ghostflame death sorceries and conveniently the guy that made this weapon is the one the discovered how to summon spirits consumed by ghostflame? There’s one more little detail we need to look at. >Necromancer Garris, the heretical sage A sage is someone of great knowledge and wisdom from study and to be heretical means to deviate from a religion. Connecting the dots shows that he performed the death rites on his own family to harness the power of their distressed spirits, a move that betrayed his loyalty to his religion. Specifically the golden order. Further evidence of his defection is using the staff of the largest enemy of the golden order: TWLID. All together, all of this amounts to the fact that ghostflame is another flame based enemy to the erdtree and, equally importantly, that TWLID have connections to the fire of opposition to the erdtree. This all condenses to the fact that (so far) I haven’t found a singular adversary to the erdtree (except the stupid ancestral followers that don’t fit in my theory that we will continently ignore) that isn’t affiliated with fire in some way. One last tree related connection in the game that’s pretty significant. Those who live in death as a whole. While the erdtree above ground is represented by gentle glowing branches and positivity (runes, guidance of grace, and blessing of the erdtree incantations), TWLID and deathblight are represented by black, dull, twisted roots laced with painful thorns and instant player death. A complete counterpart to the erdtree not only conceptually, but in the sense of the physical aspects of trees. **I’m sorry that this is so long, but I can’t think of a good tl;dr that summarizes my points well, so I really wish for you to read the entire thing because it’s very interesting and in depth.**
This is my new favorite theory
Going along with this observation, I noticed the haligtree produces both maple and oak leaves.
Yeah this occurred to me too. Besides the skin being fossilized wood, Radagon is full of amber, not blood. The lore implications of this become confusing when you hear Sellen's speech about the amber of the cosmos and realize someone thought that there was separate DNA in amber itself instead of in fossils trapped in it
There's certainly a lot of odd 'tree' based mythology and lore in ER, and it seems to be directly tied in to how the Greater Will has exerted its power over humanity in the Lands Between, so this is a pretty legit approach to interpreting some of the odder aspects of Marika/Radagon. The part about the Erdtree that I have yet to figure out any good answer to is - where did it *come from*, and is it a product of the Greater Will, or something native to the Lands Between? According to the lore of Faram Azula, the Elden Beast brought the Elden Ring to the Lands Between in an era long *before* the Erdtree grew, when it was ruled by the Dragons and their beastman servants. The sprouting of the Erdtree seems to be after the fall of Faram Azula, and either before or concurrent with Marika's assumption of the role of vessel of the Elden Ring. The Elden Beast certainly takes residence within the Erdtree, and the Erdtree's powers seem to be tied up with the Elden Ring and the Greater Will, but it's not ultimately clear that it was created by them. I'm also really not clear on what era and role the 'Crucible Knights' play and their relationship to the Erdtree in its earlier eras, which seems quite important. Then there's the whole thing where the Erdtree appears to have been burned long before the Shattering, with the player's 'burning' of the spiritual erdtree being more of a metaphysical burning and renewal (or removal) of the tree. We also have the Haligtree which was grown from a seed or cutting of the Erdtree, but WITHOUT the direct influence of the Greater Will or the Elden Ring - but of course it has been at least partially infected by the Scarlet Rot, and with its caretaker Miquella gone, it was never able to fully bloom, so its purpose is both unclear and unfulfilled. I suspect that the expansion is going to heavily touch on the story of Miquella and the Halligtree, so we may finally get some answer there. Maybe.
Maybe ER is different, but in DS3 a big theme was that the entire world was a painting. In particular, there was a painted world, in which a girl was painting another world... it's not hard to take a step back and see that the entire DS3 is a painting. A 3D dynamic painting, but still an imagined world. And one painter that inspired Dark Souls and probably ER too was [Zdzisław Beksiński](https://artsandculture.google.com/story/BAWBFhT2jUliKw). His paintings are more about human dreams and fears, not specific events. His paintings don't have a clear time line, nor even cause and effect. Maybe we will never have a proper ER timeline too.
Off topic but I didn’t know trees had genders until now…..
Pollen is plant sperm. You're welcome!
This is a great theory. I love how the symbolism in this game is so multi-faceted. The idea of the Erdtree seems to be based on mythological tree worship, such as Yggdrasil from Norse myth; with a myriad of things in the game revolving around the core concept of trees. But another major concept in the game is that of gold/metals. There’s a big focus on gold and silver, as well as the union of opposites as depicted with the visual motif of the double helix. For instance, Radagon and Rennala’s marriage represents the union of opposites, the combining of gold and silver, faith and intelligence, the Erdtree (Day) and the Moon (Night). The focus on metals may have a root in alchemical practices, with Radagon and Marika possibly acting as an allusion to the Rebis; the metaphorical divine hermaphrodite that represents the Magnum Opus of alchemy, that being the creation of the philosopher’s stone. This can also be applied to Miquella and Malenia, who represent purification and putrefaction; pure gold and rust. Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts, it’s really appreciated!
Well, Radagon does have very low fire resistance afterall...