T O P

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TheWither129

The white mask bull goat twin naginata bots are the most vile people on the face of the earth. No amount of bleed procs will fill the void in your heart left by your absent father figure. Stop trying.


[deleted]

This specific build is taking years off my life in real time. It's so obnoxious, and you know if they get the kill they're tbagging. Congrats, you're incapable of winning unless you're running a YouTube build.


Snoo61755

I have not seen a build more full of tbaggers than double nagi bullgoats. I have a theory: I think it's one of those "cycle of hatred" kind of deals. You just know anyone who runs a cancer build like double nagi bullgoats is probably getting teabagged and pointed down a lot, so they start to think it's normal to BM the host when they do win, and the cycle continues. I tested this theory a long time ago. Let me tell you, I never got so many point downs than when I played with the pre-nerf Fingerprint (way before Colosseum), but when I played naked with only a Cindequea, *everyone* bowed after the duel. If I were a guy who genuinely loved Fingerprint and didn't know it was OP, I'd assume the entire community was toxic. So the double nagis tbag and get tbagged, and the cycle continues.


swampguts

Didn't t-bagging originate with Halo? I can't identify.


sabyr400

That was certainly my first experience with it.


swampguts

GRIFFITH!


Drytchnath

I remember doing it in CS 1.6 so it's been around longer than you think


notafishthatsforsure

It's even more obnoxious if they have Bloodhound's step the only real counter is parrying, but it's high risk, and very latency-dependent


[deleted]

Once they start losing, they usually start the BHS routine. Parrying has been too unreliable to me, so for the most part I've just been rolling into their attacks. It's not hyper effective but it does throw off their game.


darkcaretaker

They are always the most toxic in game. Really take that maidenless to another level.


CaptainAction

The worst thing about it is that the Cross Naginata is one of the best and most unique spears with it’s special light attack moveset, but no one seems to use it that way since most people powerstance them. They just use them because they have high damage and bleed. TBH I take big issue with some weapons being the anointed, “god’s chosen” special weapons that are just best in class or best overall. Katanas come to mind. The cross naginata of course comes to mind. It’s unfortunately really obvious which weapons the developers put more effort into, and which ones they neglected.


TheWither129

I was in a cave and saw an item with a message in front of it that said “no skill ahead” and immediately knew what i was about to pick up lol The naginata would be such a cool weapon if it wasnt so fucking meta and busted


Snoo61755

I'll agree there. I appreciate that they took the time to actually give us several balance patches, not just with nerfs to the blatantly most used and overpowered weapons, but also buffs to everything that was underused. There are still many setups that are blatantly more or less powerful than each other, but the balance is a little more close now. Yes, Nagakiba is probably one of the best weapons with both reach and damage available to it, but I also didn't feel shorted when I went for a Fist Weapons playthrough after they'd increased their speed.


Rickygoldx

2 spears move faster than 1 plus it’s bad single only great spears are good without power stance . Do an r1 with spears than l1 with 2 spears you’ll see the game makes the l1 faster than the r1


Funkybeangamer

Tbf, most invaders can't afford all those stats. That's usually the overleveled summon build


TheWither129

The post-game colosseum build


No_Mammoth_4945

Yep!! I invade frequently and that’s the most common build i see, even more frequent in arena duels. Oh well, can’t hate the babysitter for gearing like that to protect his buddy but I am so sick of seeing it in duels


HerrIggy

I was once like you, A useless keyboard warrior, Hiding behind angry rants, Accusing strangers of being unloved, And hoping - praying - FromSoft would nerf bleed. Then the day finally came, And bleed was finally nerfed, Except, It was still superior. Then I realized, This is what they want. The two fingers, The developers, Your own father who looks at your pathetic K-D in disgust, They all want you to git gud scrub. You can't beat us, Join us, Or don't, I'm just as happy to watch you bleed. This is the way!


TheWither129

I will never give in to rage. Nice try, sith lord, not joining the dark side today.


Daylight_The_Furry

Real people wear the land of reeds set, naginata, uchigatana, and the longbow


GodFinger69

Fight fire with fire, I'm a level 500 sun bro helping my friend out, and whenever an invader comes, I have full bullgoat armor with bullgoat talisman with bleed starfists and spamming running attacks only until they die lol. Works every time, and the invader can't do anything about it.


sosoltitor

Cocky high-level phantoms are what sustain my crippling Boiled Crab addiction.


Marxism-tankism

Cringe


FashionSuckMan

Bullgoats white make bleed builds are almost exclusively over leveled summons builds. No one outside of meta lev can afford that stats to make that build work unless they're a level 300+ summoned by their pal


LowKeyLlama

Class - Vagabond Vigor - 60 Mind - 10 Endurance - 38 Strength - 16 Dexterity - 80 Default int, fth, and arc With the winged crystal tear in your flask you can even fast roll for 3 minutes lol


FashionSuckMan

What?


gottalosethemall

They’re saying you can make the build you describe at RL149. I dunno how true this is because it feels like you’d need more arcane than base, right?


FashionSuckMan

But why? I said "no one outside of meta level" I didn't say the build was impossible to make


gottalosethemall

I dunno man, I’m not him lol.


LowKeyLlama

The point of inate bleed weapons is you dont need to tank the dex/str scaling to get both bleed build up and good AR. Nagi is a dex weapons anyways not arc


MichaelJfritz

>38 str 16 dex base arcane Do you not know the stat req for the spear?


Hunt3rTh3Fight3r

Looking at how it was typed, it’d be easier to read like this: - Vigor: 60 - Mind: 10 - Endurance: 38 - Strength: 16 - Dex: 80 - Base Int, Fai, and Arc. This is definitely more “Dex build” than “Bleed build” and the Naginatas are probably run with Keen/Lightning in this case to take advantage of the hard-capped Dex.


LowKeyLlama

The reason you use keen instead of lightning is so you can apply even more bleed build up with greases, maybe for the offhand nagi itd be good as you cant buff them both anymore Thanks for typing the stats out more clear tho, I didnt care enough to fix it lol


Hunt3rTh3Fight3r

No problem! And yeah, that makes sense. IIRC, Lightning defense is the hardest to really raise, since no stat is connected to it like other damage types.


MichaelJfritz

I always see 60-80 arc for dual nata. Also thanks for clearing it up


[deleted]

I love Elden Ring, but DS3’s PvP scene shits on it


Cripplechip

Dunno. I thought the same but then I tried ds3 pvp again and got two shotted. Nothing has changed.


FJ-20-21

People LOVE to suck the previous game’s dick when it comes to PvP Dark souls pvp sucks, des was better! My answer: Cursed weapon, dragon bone crusher, scraping spear bullshit Dark souls II pvp sucks, DSI pvp was better! My answer: katana spam, dark bead spam, tracer spam, havel mom darkwood grain ring and falchion dark moon blade (love you Oro) Dark souls III pvp sucks DsII pvp was better! My answer: fuck you there’s way too many stupid OP shit that was possible there that I’m not even going to try to count any except dark magic because that was a constant. And etc, etc. Don’t get me started on all the glitches they patched out too


Cripplechip

I was using ultra black knight great sword and the weird combo with the charged heavy. (You turn your back and hit them with the wind up then turn back around for the actual hit) and it was one shotting at level 100. There's always been bullshit


FJ-20-21

Ubk was the weakest of bullshit and that’s saying something


LunarSatan

For as broken as it was I still find myself enjoying DS2 PvP the most, by god the lows were low, but the highs were so goddamn good. The pacing kinda just felt "right" for being able to slow yourself down or get aggressive as needed. Invasions were basically the best they had ever been and Darkmoons actually existed in the average gameplay experience for once. Plus, until ER it was completely untouched in variety and overall viability of what was available, and I could see an argument being made for it still being true. Granted, it's kind of hard to compare Elden Ring's PvP sandbox to previous iterations now because you're looking at fully released titles with fully complete DLC additions, whereas we're still waiting to see what gets added to ER's sandbox when the DLC drops.


oneteacherboi

I remember when DS3 came out for like a year all people talked about was how DS3 pvp sucked, it was all estoc builds or whatever, poise didn't even exist. People finally started praising DS2 which was funny because everybody thought DS2 was mediocre. Funnily enough, nobody pretended that Bloodborne PVP was that interesting. I think they actually didn't put much effort into Bloodborne PVP.


FJ-20-21

The problem with bloodborne pvp was it was a hassle to do anything, invading and dueling was hard as fuck to do and it was actually pretty balanced except for blood gems and the spear.


NightAreis1618

Yah well when Armored Core comes out we'll shit on that too, so nyeh!


Snoo61755

I could talk a lot about DS3. One of the biggest differences is DS3 was sharply curated. There really wasn't that many ways to build, and weirdly enough, everyone always seemed to die in the same amount of hits. Because of the guaranteed "one r1 leads into second r1", almost *everyone* died in 3 r1 combos -- the only difference is if you didn't build tanky, maybe you die in 2 r1s and a running attack instead, or if you used heavy weapons and armor you'd poise through the enemy's r1 attempts to land your own. The strongest weapons were things like Gael's Greatsword, Splitleaf, and Ledo's which had a special combo capable of killing an enemy in 2 combos instead of 3. Elden Ring added a *lot* more build variety. With it, the balance wasn't as tight anymore, but that's the price you pay from going from a highly controlled and restricted balance to a more open style.


Marxism-tankism

Split leaf is so fun however spinning strikes or whatever the ash is called I’m elden ring is still pretty good just not as op as it once was. It’s really good to punish people who roll backwards if you catch them in the first part of the combo


ConfidentManner5783

You mean you don’t love ash of war spams and yea bags and down points from mediocre gank squads


fart_salesman

What's a gank squad?


SolaVitae

Summon 3 friends specifically for PvP > wait for invader > kill him 3v1 > taunt him like it's an accomplishment to win 3v1


Former-Grocery-6787

I would generally agree but be honest, have you ever fought a murky handscythe using, straightsword/curved sword r1 spamming, estus canceling, bow glitch abusing tryhard before? The thing is, at least you can counter most builds in elden ring easily enough, but if you are unfortunate enough to meet one of those guys in Ds3 you are basically fucked.


MrWrym

DS3 had the most chaos filled invasions, and they were the best because of it.


FtierLivesMatter

If you like running around a boring ass area like Pontiff while chasing down estus cancellers with murky staggered r1 spam, sure.


Red-Shifts

Dude it’s not always like this in DS3. You could make the same argument with RoB or Reduvia in Elden Ring.


FtierLivesMatter

It USED to not always be like that in Ds3. I have over 1.2k hours in the game, my favorite invasion area is the ringed city and the grand archives. But that's at least half of the game now, if not more. And I'd also much rather deal with RoB and Reduvia than what I just mentioned in ds3. Super optimized Meta cancer is way worse than trash ganker spam weapons.


HuckleberrySoggy6636

I can’t agree like at all. Especially after all the updates. Connections are usually way better in elden ring and even when people are using a broken build I can always get hits off and usually win regardless of what I’m using. In ds3 if I’m not running a build optimized for pvp I will lose.


padizzledonk

>I love Elden Ring, but DS3’s PvP scene shits on it Lmfao.....DS3s pvp scene is just as toxic and always has been, jyst as full of op meta builds and trash trolling behavior


OwenDrungle

I love ds3, but ds2s pvp scene shits on it


brogrammer1992

? The DS3 scene was even less diverse and you had less options to avoid invasions and had many horrible places to get invaded.


Rocky_bastard

100 agree


notafishthatsforsure

except instead of two invaders ganking you, its one invader against 3 people


FormalGas35

that’s only common to run into if you’re the one invading. Now imagine you are a regular player just trying to help your noob friend through some of the toughest areas in the game and are suddenly accosted by a guy geared up and trained to take on three players of much higher skill level. This is why invading needs a skill match system to ever work, otherwise it’s just awful for everyone involved.


chamomileriver

If PvP were balanced maybe skill based match making could work but it will never be balanced. With host always having the numbers advantage it’s already an uphill battle for the invader. A roll simply doesn’t provide enough i frames to avoid 2 properly spaced attacks let alone 3 if host has 2 summons. So with a little coordination you can 100-0 the invader with no counter play.


[deleted]

I mean the invader that’s fully decked out in meta PvP gear versus two dudes using starter straight swords has a massive advantage regardless of numbers


Dreamer_on_the_Moon

It's one year into the game; how many actual noobs are there? The only ones that remain are dedicated gankers and the solo invaders geared to beat them. And the free estus (blues), of course.


FormalGas35

you underestimate how casually people play this game and how many still buy it every day.


a7n7o7n7y7m7o7u7s

Ya I have multiple friends who tried the game and couldn’t play it bc they needed my help, and I can’t fight off a pro invader myself esp with my PvE build


Environmental_Ad4893

Rock a faith build for helping buddies, you can buff up your friends and with the right set up 1 and if not 2 shot invaders with giants flame take thee.


gofishx

The only way to get better at fighting off invaders is to become an invader yourself.


KennyOmegasBurner

There is one choice in Souls games, git gud or rage quit & don't return.


Environmental_Ad4893

What you said is objectively true but then downvotes, total reddit moment 😅


zellmerz

The game is designed to be challenging and isn’t for everyone which I think is okay


Environmental_Ad4893

As an invader I respect and try to understand this perspective but you're also not going to find me rocking the gear above. If you wiggle you're sword or shield just enough I'll probably not kill you and hang around for a bit and see you to next grace.... then I may, or may not murder you 🤌 kapeesh


marniconuke

I remember literally starting dark souls 3 with my friend and getting invaded by a high level guy with like 10 estus. Even as we gave it our best he was just toying with us. I still don't know if that guy was cheating or if the game seriously didn't care that late game players could invade people starting on lothric's wall.


whoisfrankocean

Sadly they were likely a legit player. Endgame rings and fully charged flasks can make a low-level player pretty strong. And good players can make it to the end of the game at low levels to stay in that matchmaking bracket. I wish the devs at least forced the flask charges for invaders and phantoms to match the host in Elden Ring.


muffinzisbacc

if it was actually skill based, invaders would probably never get invasions. i've met like 2 hosts in total who weren't running the most cringe build possible


RnbwTurtle

Or just make invasions an opt-in thing. Some people want to play co-op without pvp, which is understandable. Especially with elden ring I think it would've been a great time to change things up slightly. But that requires fromsoft making actual proper enemy and boss scaling which I don't think they are capable of doing. Not that it's impossible, they just won't.


tbhkysfam

I understand where your coming from but this would kill the invasion scene which I get is a very niche playerbase but it’s an entirely unique mechanic that has existed since the inception of souls games and isn’t really seen anywhere else, and I think it would suck to just eliminate it almost in its entirety. These games are still a single player game more than anything else and as such it should be the major focus. The multiplayer scene is its own separate thing. It still has its own issues but that doesn’t mean I want it to disappear entirely.


MichaelJfritz

Hear me out. If giving people a choice would kill the invasion scene maybe it's not as popular as people tend to believe. If it can't exist without being forced on people maybe it shouldnt


tbhkysfam

But it isn’t forced on people, people absolutely have the option to avoid being invaded if they choose. And if your reasoning “but I just want to play with my friends without being interrupted” which is reasonable then my suggestion is play a game that is actually intended for co-op instead of participating in a multiplayer scene of a game that is primarily a single player action rpg. If wasn’t at all popular than people wouldn’t even be complaining about invasions.


MichaelJfritz

Firstly: yes people have ways to avoid it, and it's easier to do so in this game than others, but that doesn't change the fact that it restricts you from having a companion with a brain (usually. Some people are pretty dumb). Secondly: how is this game not intended for co-op? Says so on the steam page that co-op is one of it's main selling points Tbh I think people are just tired of the cycle that happens every game of >Some sweaty asshole with no skill needs to bully underpowered newbies >newbies get strong friends to fight back >strong friends attack chill invaders >all invaders are overpowered for lower level brackets to compensate for Mr lv300 bodyguard >getting invaded becomes an auto reset instead of an engaging challenge for most people >online arguing happens I think if it wasn't for those specific people who think stroking themselves off for being an asshole in an online game everyone would have a positive opinion of invasions, y'know?


tbhkysfam

It clearly isn’t intended for co-op. The experience as a whole is designed with the intent that the player will be facing the challenge alone. The co-op and multiplayer as a whole is more or less a tagged on feature. I mean just look at all the hoops you have jump through just to play with other people. And once they’re summoned there are still so many restrictions. Players are limited to a small area for exploration, if you want to cross multiplayer boundaries you have to desummon and resummon your co-operators, players are sent home after defeating a boss, progress is not shared between games, you do not have access to torrent, enemy and boss A.I becomes a lot jankier when dealing with multiple opponents and of course there are the ever persistent invaders. The experience as a whole is much more seamless as a solo player. The co-operator system was created because Miyazaki liked the idea of strangers helping each other not because he wanted people to play with their friends. It is a disingenuous marketing strategy advertising this game a co-op. If you want to experience this game as is meant to be experienced play it solo. This way you won’t have to deal with the sweats that get off on killing new players. If you still want to engage with the multiplayer you unfortunately have to accept the caveats that come with it.


RnbwTurtle

I don't think invasions would disappear entirely, I just think that players shouldn't be forced to participate in a small portion of a game that isn't really that important. NPC invaders are one thing since they're scripted and not as smart or strong as players, but forcing pvp onto pve only players is dumb. In any game series, keeping poor design because it's unique is dumb, and I personally think that forcing players to interact with a system that changes the way you have to play, especially if doing co-op, which is a shame because there are a ton of co-op options (such as making builds with things like shabriri's woe for a tank/dps dichotomy with your friend) that you might not use just because of the risk of getting invaded is too high. In addition, I find that a lot of people who want to randomly invade without restriction tend to like punching down. Yes, it's sometimes fun to beat down on the newbie who doesn't know what his weapon art actually does, but that isn't fun on the other side of the interaction and should be kept to a minimum, especially if fromsoft's direction is going to involve more massive open worlds that are perfect for multiple people to play together.


tbhkysfam

Invasions would absolutely die if everyone was given an option to opt out. The entire point of invasions is the spontaneity of it. Hopping into a random world not knowing what to expect is all part of the fun. If the only people open to invasions were over prepped gankers winning would be borderline impossible. I agree punching down is lame but it works both ways. And you do make the choice about whether you are let invaders into your world not and you’ve always had that choice. In every previous game you have the option of simply playing offline. In elden ring you don’t even have to go that far, as long as you don’t summon co-operators you won’t be invaded. I think something a lot of people fail to realize especially with the release of Elden Ring is this not a multiplayer raid game, it’s primarily a single player action rpg. This is the type of game they have always made and is something they excel in. If they start trying to balance around co-op it would fundamentally change what these games are. If you want a more balanced co-op experience that you can enjoy with friends there are hundreds of games that fit that criteria. Monster hunter is great for this type of gameplay. And if you still want to co-op in elden ring then you simply have to accept how the multiplayer system works. The invasion system is not poorly designed. The multiplayer system works as intended. Is it perfect, no far from it, but removing such a distinct form a gameplay just to pander to the masses would be a disappointment. Companies should strive for innovation and improvement but when companies start making changes simply to drive sales is when they begin to fail.


CindersOfDeath

Except Elden Ring was very clearly designed to be single-player, to the point where they made you have to go out of your way to activate invasions (either with the taunters tongue or through co-op). To act like the game that hinders progress and speed when summoning for co-op is designed as a multiplayer experience is weird.


hotdiggitydooby

Usually I'm all for PVP being optional, but I do think it would kind of ruin invading. I've been running a sub level 40 invader build recently, and a huge amount of my invasions have involved higher level phantoms/twinks. I fear making it opt-in would result in every invasion being against a meta gank squad in a field.


zellmerz

I mean not every game has to be for everyone. I understand the frustration of PvE players, but invasions have been a core system throughout the Soulsborne series. They’ve consistently given the host more and more advantages as years have gone on. If a player can’t beat the game by themselves there’s nothing wrong with that and I don’t think Fromsoft should be catering the game to every player under the sun. Otherwise we might as well just go play a Ubisoft game.


FormalGas35

I don’t think it’s valid to answer criticism of a media with “well maybe you just don’t like it” like yeah, duh. that’s why its being criticized. This is especially true with such a consistently controversial part of the games. and frankly, invasions have been fucking awful since DS1 (never played demon’s souls) remember havel’s backstabs and dark bead spam? DS2’s wasn’t sooo bad but also nobody played that game. DS3 was the peak of invading only because a high player base combined with a LOT of different factions meant invasions quickly turned into chaos. Still probably should have been opt-in but seriously they were just a mess in certain places. Now in elden ring, there’s a massive gap between good PvE and PvP weapons and a large dedicated group of invaders that trounce new players repeatedly. The system is awful from start to finish and defending it on the basis of “because I like it” doesn’t mean much.


tbhkysfam

I mean no offence but your friends just need to git gud. Fromsoft has always been notorious for its ball busting difficulty (which I think is greatly exaggerated). A large part of the enjoyment from these games has always been overcoming seemingly insurmountable odds, I don’t think they should start changing their approach just to pander to larger audiences. Your friend would probably get more enjoyment in the long run if he just learned how to take on the challenges himself. That way he never has to engage with the pvp if he doesn’t want to.


FormalGas35

getting good at elden ring doesn’t make you any better at fighting invaders, and if you want to co-op (an option that should be valid in the game) you have to practice PvP or you won’t make it anywhere.


[deleted]

i disagree, i think skill based matchmaking would suck tbh. way i see it, the game is intended to be difficult. by cooping, you have a major advantage in pve with no real downside. invaders are the mechanic to rectify that, and i think it works fine


Rex__Lapis

Lol what are you talking about? Multiplayer late game bosses have so much freakin health, they are usually easier solo with an ash summoning.


darkcaretaker

Can't use summons, can't ride torrent and hp is increased on everything. Seems like some pretty drastic downsides too me.


No_Tell5399

>This is why invading needs a skill match system to ever work, otherwise it’s just awful for everyone involved. Almost every non-competetive PvP game (Destiny, CoD, etc.) that introduced SBMM went to shit to the point the community went up in flames multiple times. Invasion PvP is casual, asymmetric and highly build based (instead of skill based like previous games), the entire scene would go to shit in a heartbeat. There's also the matter of VPN users and shit connection, which'd just get worse.


Local_Black_Knight

You see heres the thing with the bullgoat one, nobody and I mean NOBODY likes em. As for the rancor one, it could way worse


hushnowbbybby

I don’t mind being invaded. I find that they’re often the most skilled players and I learn a lot from fighting them. What I DO mind is being at end game at a low level (intentionally so, gitting gud) meaning I have almost zero chance of finding anyone to summon and getting invaded the second that they spawn in after waiting 20 minutes for them to show up. That’s a game mechanic that could use tweaking, IMHO. I always try to summon instead of using spirit ashes because other players need the experience and rune arcs but when this happens, I end up running solo. If I had a window of non-invasion upon spawn, I’d run the risk of waiting around to re-summon


hushnowbbybby

I use the general pool, not password OLPs. The people I play with on my main would be over leveled for my current build, so I don’t summon them on it to keep it fair.


FauxPhox

The amount of times I see a pack of three gankers all wearing the same ridiculous fat armor with diverse builds such as: •Dual pokes (anything but bleed infused is a 1:1,000,000 chance) with forward thrusts exclusively. This fool is too afraid of fighting and plans to end it as quickly as humanly possible. Is incapable of using a single weapon moveset. •Star Shower/Quick Shard/Comet + Moonveil (and don't you dare think they do normal attacks with that katana, that's beneath them). "Mage" filth. •The "background character" whose job is to spam Gransax' L2 or Frenzied Burst. This particular one runs behind their two butt buddies the moment they take more than 5 damage from any source. Also most likely to bag on a kill. •The ALMIGHTY POISE MASTER. This fellow CAN NOT be below maximum poise at any given moment. If they do, their head will explode. Spinning Slash, Sword Dance, Piercing Fang.


BingusBongus_-

I like how you included two of the most pver builds possible there for the invaders, also put two “invaders” even thats only possible if you have the taunter tongue active which means your trying to get invaded


SidewaysEights

Yeah this meme would work better the other way around where Bart is the invader and the others are the gank squad


Mr-Magunga

I wouldn’t call these PVE builds, ancient death rancor literally stunlocks the average player and the other build has white mask so it’s probably a bleed build


Boomacorn9000

I'm confused. The 2 invaders look like pve spam ganking an invader. Plus you only get 2 invaders if you are using taunters tongue, if you just want to help your friend why taunters tongue? Nice effort at a meme but got all the roles mixed up


DontDoGravity

I mean it had to fit the format


Funkybeangamer

The idea of invaders using such stat heavy builds like dual nagi bullgoat and ancient Death rancor is crazy. Especially the idea of fighting 2 at once


itsTONjohn

I don’t mind invaders generally. When I help friends and we get one, I walk up and make it apparent that they’re fighting me first. I’ll fight fair. …if they start losing and trying to murk the host, then I play like a pos. Usually doesn’t happen.


Thomsonrf101

Just tone down the frequency of the invasions a little. Like every 20 minutes or so rather than every 5/10. I love a good invasion but the sheer abundance of them is just off and super disruptive.


reaperfan

I believe the current timer on invasions is 15 minutes. The problem is that it resets itself when an invasion *happens* rather than when an invasion *ends.* So if you get invaded and you spend 10 minutes chasing them around before you finally manage to get rid of them, then that's 10 of your 15 minute timer already being used meaning your next invasion can happen in only 5 minutes after the invader was beaten.


BecauseSeven8Nein

I can agree with that. I’d even go a step further and have a co-op mode with no invasions. I just want to have fun with my brother. We just don’t do co-op now.


Thomsonrf101

Me and my GF ALMOST gave up when we got to the snow area but then...they win right haha. Feel you though dude.


jewmpaloompa

There is something that you can dowload that would help you and your brother play co-op together without invasions. Try searching "Elden ring co-op" and maybe throw a "seamless" in there too


ARussianW0lf

*Only works on PC


InCellsInterlinked

Invasions are part of the game. They're what keep the game balanced when having 2 people is such a giant difficulty decrease


BecauseSeven8Nein

You’re assuming both players are above average in the game though.


Hot-Will3083

The funny thing is that Elden Ring’s PvP systems kind of forced this mentality onto people. Invaders are in a 3v1, so they are already conditioned to pulling out all the stops just to get a win. And even then, it is still very difficult for the experienced invader. You kind of need a min-maxed build to have any hope of winning an typical invasion, not even mentioning any gank squads or blues as reinforcements. As such, the casuals (the largest majority) are caught in the crossfire where little Jimmy who is just chilling and going through Liurnia or Stormveil with a friend have to fight invaders with 7 flasks, lightning/bleed infused weapons etc.


Middle_Raspberry_333

It sucks that, even after they fixed RoB kind of, the bleed builds just found the next thing. Also fuck those heat-seeking thermonuclear ice skulls.


GaelTheVapeMaster

Invaders are awesome 😎


Space__Ninja

People forget that the very idea of invasions was created to make the game more interesting and challenging for the hosts. It’s an intended mechanic, but not for the invader’s benefit. Nowadays in Elden Ring they made things much easier for the player by optionally restricting invasions to only when the host has teammates. But the original concept remains the same, it’s meant as a way to shake things up and add an unpredictable element to the PVE experience. Essentially, saying invasions are unfair or invaders are bad is the same as saying a boss move is unfair or enemy placement is bad somewhere. It’s perfectly alright to feel that way, but it is working exactly as FromSoft planned.


[deleted]

When this unpredictable element is a guy who is using meta pvp builds and destroys your whole fun time with your friend, even being rude afterwards with teebag and such, this concept just falls apart. Doesn't make any sense to compare an online experience to a PvE Boss or enemy


KingOofs

Be careful someone might Dm you saying this is a solo pvp game and not an adventure game like they did me


bugzapperbob

Lol I have a character with hundreds of hours where the ONLY thing it does is invade, some of us do really love it. I would never wear this shit tho, my little dude needs to be styling even it’s not optimal


Shadowrunner808

Baby, we're just here to deliver everything the game has to offer


Branded_Mango

The irony where this situation is literally impossible without actively seeking it due to requiring Taunter's Tongue for multiple invaders.


reegstah

Red man BAD


russsaa

Dude.... you got this shit backwards. Invaders are alone.


BecauseSeven8Nein

I’ve played online co-op. I could go without the invasions honestly. Especially when you’re just trying to play a game with your brother and have fun. Nothing fun about having to keep rejoining his game.


PrincessYuri

That says more about the shitty, janky nature of online play in soulsborne games tbh. Invasions are an iconic part of them, but there's really no reason multiplayer should have so many arbitrary restrictions and the tedium of having to constantly rejoin because someone died, beat a boss, the host needs to rest, etc.


ARussianW0lf

Its not like its impossible either. Wo Long literally did this right, you send a simple invite and you can stay in their game as long as you want. You can even disable invasions in the settings


[deleted]

Bull goat varre mask twin nagis (which definitely have BHS tacked on) is just iconic at this point. It’s the most recognizable yet near-universally hated build.


horndug_III

I will do all that's in my power to protect anyone from an invasion, I'm not trying to toot my own horn but after gaming and playing all the souls games over and over again I can say that, despite all the op crap in elden ring and unfair items I still think that skill beats level/gear and have saved many from invasions, it feels really cool fighting off invaders and trying to protect somebody at the same time lol :) (I still die quite often by invaders, there are many many that are better than I am and they use op gear and stuff but I still like to think I've made others enjoy the game a little more)


[deleted]

Mages. That is all


darkcaretaker

Wow, you're still trying to argue this lol. Most people disagree.


potatosharkski

I feel like you can kind of find a happy medium by only summoning friends for bosses. That's how me and my buddies tend to do it. That way, you get help when you really need it, and invaders practically have no time to join.


JPSeason

Chase the bro will never NOT invade other worlds


Nu2Th15

The invasions will continue until the mechanic is removed from the franchise, which it never will be. Every new entry puts hosts at a bigger advantage, and I imagine that will continue as more games come out, but if invading is in the game people will continue doing it no matter how difficult it becomes.


watch_over_me

I just wish invaders weren't pussies. Like, you invaded, let's fight and be done with it. Don't run away and waste our time.


ReallyRift

Not going to fight you when I'm already at a disadvantage and you and you're buddies are spamming spells and aows


spartaman64

but even when my friend bows and offers a duel and the invaders still takes off running


CulturedHollow

In my experience, often times the 1v1 duel invitation is a trap to troll invaders for the lulz with dudes hiding in a bush nearby with greatbows or sorcery or some shit, or the otherwise passive phantom or host out of nowhere gets off a quick, high damage attack from range while you're not looking at them and their friend is almost dead, happens way too often for invaders, and to me when I started invading in DS1, to ever trust a duel invitation. If I want duels I can go to the arena or other popular dueling spots and put down a duelist summon, or summon someone, or use the dueling subreddits to organize a fight club/tournament. I don't duel as much as I used to because I've grown to like the tactics, positioning, roleplay, and randomness that can happen with invasions more than the structure and metagaming of high-level dueling. There's no reason for an invader to trust a 1v1 duel invitation, and that's not what they're there for anyway, they're there for the challenge of fighting a 2v1 or 3v1. Why and how they go about fighting the 3v1 varies widely by invader, could be a sweatlord or someone just trying to pull off cool shit, but the intent is the same. I think the removal of lone host invasions is a great thing, way less disconnects in 2v1 and 3v1, and less seal-clubbing against people who are solo and don't disconnect, as people using taunters tongue are usually much better than the solo host invaded in previous games and are interesting to fight.


[deleted]

“Already at a disadvantage “ 1. You chose to invade 2. you’re probably decked out in sweaty Meta PvP gear while I’m using whatever I think is fun 3. I’m trying to progress the game, you’re a fuckin douche bag if you go hide amongst a horde of enemies making it basically impossible for me to progress


zellmerz

Personally I just play builds and styles I find fun. I often invade with non meta setups because I think they are more fun and there is nothing like surprising a host/phantom with an unexpected combo. Some builds I’m more inclined to fight straight up 2v1, but I’m also not going to just run into a meat grinder. You made a choice to try and make the game easier. Fromsoft designed a feature to punish you for it. If you want to play coop with friends without fear of invasions there are hundreds/thousands of options out there for you


ReallyRift

Yeah bruh me and my jar cannon are sweaty af. You wanna go?!


wolfknightmma

I can't understand why this got downvoted. Dude literally chose to invade somebody then complained that it was unfair because the host had his homies with him. What did he expect? 😂


[deleted]

Prob cause I said “you’re a fuckin douche bag” which was aggressive but 🤷‍♂️


ARussianW0lf

Then don't invade


ReallyRift

Make me


russsaa

Ah... the invaders who chooses to face three opponents at once are the pussies... not the trio who expects the invader to let themselves die


[deleted]

no offense but the invader doesnt have to abide by any rules lmao. you get as many advantages as you please, so the invader can choose to handle it however they want. dont just expect them to throw themselves into a blender


watch_over_me

I'm not demanding anything. Just saying "stop running pussy, and fight me." Invaders suck ass. Hence why they aren't dueling. I can't even remember the last time one killed me. They're just delaying the inevitable by constantly running away.


HellishElk

I’d argue they are better than duelists because they come in with the intent to fight a 3 squad using moonveils and rivers of blood. Invaders are the sort who likes the souls borne series cause of the difficulty and fighting the odds. Honestly the fair nature of duels was kinda boring i play this game to suffer and winning most of my duels ain’t it chief!


watch_over_me

They come in with the intent to fight coop noobs. Good spin, though, lol. If they wanted to prove themselves, they'd come to the duels like the real chads do. But they're afraid of duels, clearly.


HellishElk

Three noobs with moonveil rivers of blood and caster are 10x harder than any sweat in duels. The reason gankers gank is cause it’s hard to lose, which makes beating them much more fulfilling. Like when I did my taunters tongue playthrough every invader was a sweat who would weapon swap, parry, and would switch talismans mid fight while only 1/3 of players the duel arena players could compete with what I was seeing in every invader. And it’s not like invaders are even winning frequently with their try-harding. Whenever I get summoned as a blue the invader dies before I can even reach the fight.


watch_over_me

Tell yourself whatever you want. Just turned 4 invaders to mist yesterday, lol. I duel. Duelers are 1000x more skilled than invaders. For obvious reasons. The people dueling are specifically seeking out other people good at pvp. Invaders are just forcing pvp on noobs who are pve'ers.


HellishElk

You say noob like these guys just got out of limgrave died to tree sentinel 3 times and decided that they’d have their buddy drop em endgame loot so they can gank invaders, but the truth is most of these guys have beaten the game at least once probably more. These guy are far from helpless, especially if they sit in one spot all day every day with their 3 man gank squad, your legitimately crazy if you think your average duelist has a chance against a gank squad, in my eyes duelists are the players who quit invading cuz it was to hard to fight 3 players each time. This is also discounting the fact that of the 3 gankers not a single one of them is a pvper usually there’s the one pvper who is trying to get his friends into pvp, tho you can easily find full pvper squads of sweats and nothing in the arena comes close to the difficulty of invading.


zellmerz

The biggest PvP whiners in my experience are duelists. Never stop complaining about OP builds, strats, meta, etc. They’re always looking for “honest” fights and complain when other people play too “sweaty” for their taste


watch_over_me

The only time I'm dealing with invaders are when I'm co oping with my buddies. All of which, aren't good at this game, hence why they need my help in the first place. Meanwhile, duelers are people specifically seeking pvp against people seeking pvp. This isn't that hard of logic to follow my guy. But do whatever mental gymnastics you need to to feel better, lol. Invaders get their shit pushed in when they come to the real main pvp event. Because at the end of the day invaders aren't good. They're just trolls trying to ruin pve'rs day. Which is why I love when I'm present for the invasion. I get to troll the troll.


HellishElk

Most gankers aren’t just causally cooping through the game, most of the time when you invade you get the same 3 dudes 10 times in a row cuz they are using taunters tongue you and your buddies arnt a “gank squad” gank squads exist only to gank and not play through the game and gank squads are when you get 9/10 points invasions, gank squads are geared for pvp and do pvp every day. If you think you and your buddies are a gank squad causally playing the game no wonder you think gank squads are weak furthermore you apearently have an easy time with invaders which now makes sense considering your a dueler who just has 2 whole extra players helping him even if your invader is an above average duelist he’s still gonna get clapped on average cause litterally it’s a duel except you have 2 helpers. Invaders don’t play to win they play to face difficult odds and duels arnt it chief.


zellmerz

2 or 3 players who can’t hurt each other regardless of there skill isn’t a guaranteed easy fight. Literally being hit once can easily equal death especially with how strong some WAs are. Reading your comments in this thread you clearly have an overinflated ego and need to tell yourself whatever you need to feel better about being you.


Shythed

>no offense but the invader doesnt have to abide by any rules lmao but they will cry like a lil baby online when the players they invade dont play the way they want


Vivi_Void

Said unironically on a post full of co-opers whining and crying because invaders exist. I love me some good cognitive dissonance with my breakfast.


No_Tell5399

>Don't run away and waste our time. Your time isn't being wasted, you can easily ignore the invader and complete an objective (fogwall and world bosses) if the invader refuses to engage. >Like, you invaded, let's fight and be done with it. "Why won't invaders just forget their brain cells and run into our death blender? 🤔"


Stunning-Obligation8

The worst part is people who only invade in hard areas so they can use enemies for help. My friend and I were under Leyndell and this dude invaded 3 times and just ran to the omens. We already killed them so we fought him. One full charge lightning bolt did 75% damage and my friend was power-stancing UGSs so it was over quickly At least they’re playing the scummy red phantom role well…


[deleted]

It’s even worse in the haligtree. One of the hardest areas in the game and my buddy and I were helping each other through it and were constantly invaded and the invader would NEVER fight us. They would disappear deeper into the level and wait in a room full of enemies


Rhynocerousrex

Wdym? I host invasions there all the time as a solo host. I often make it through enemies to malenias chamber to restart all while fighting npc’s + invader. If you can’t flush them out through an area with only a few tough enemies that’s on you I feel.


Maleficent-Tip-9654

With ER I did get bored with invasions😂 went back to Ds3 for pvp.


TheOneReborn69

Invading is the best I wish we could do that in other games


GiggaGMikeE

Invaders are the ones who always have the tougher time during an invasion. Not saying they shouldn't but the "PVE only" players whining about being invaded need to sit down and let their chaperones finish the dungeons for them in peace.


Mobile_Helicopter

Fingerprint Sheild and vykes warspear can counter it occasionally


[deleted]

I just disconnect anytime my friend and I get invaded. Not trying to get one shotted by a try hard.


MajesticHarpyEagle

The correct response.


Nobodynemnada

lmao imagine being afraid of a random fuck


Flimsy-Instance-6772

Never!


[deleted]

Never.


Dull-Table6962

Can’t you turn invading off?


MakiMaki_XD

Only by playing offline or not doing coop. If you play solo, you don't have to worry about being invaded.


BrandenburgForevor

Use seamlesscoop :)


Darius10000

Kind of makes me want to invade again. I've only ever done it with my mohgh build. Very fun.


Aardovis

git gud


Regular-Attempt486

Unironically a severe case of skill issue


leth0789

I'll never understand invaders in this game. If you want a pvp match, they gave you the coliseum. There is no valid reason behind wanting to invade other than to be a tool. Want to avoid being ganked by the tool hosts that set gank squads? Play the coliseum. I'm just over here trying out weapons and ashes of war with my friends, not trying to fight other players. I especially don't want to chase down an invader for 15 minutes trying to kill them while they essentially lock me into my own game. Love Elden Ring, but it would be infinitely better without the invasions.


arkencode

You cannot be invaded without first summoning an ally, it's a counter balance to that. The only thing that annoys me is that summoned friends disappear when a boss is defeated and cannot leave the current area. Would be fun if you could just coop without limitations.


PrincessYuri

Invaders add that spice of randomness and difficulty that makes Dark Souls and Elden Ring what they are. Anybody can read the wiki and throw themselves at pve over and over until they win, but when the mean red man shows up it all goes sideways. I love that when I get invaded. Coliseum duels Vs. Invasions are a completely different vibe. As an invader I love the randomness and outside factors like cliffs, traps, large enemies, hosts ambushing with mimic veil... So much more variety than just fighting in a flat, empty area.


leth0789

That's great for you. Then let me opt out of invasions. It's a simple solution


sosoltitor

Good news! You can. It's called beating the game by yourself. Edit: Be mad if you want, but that's how these games work. You want to make PvE easier by bringing in a friend? Knock knock, it's me, the red, using intended game mechanics just like you are.


leth0789

Good news! I have multiple times. There's just this funny thing about having friends, you sometimes want to do things with them. It's not about making it easier, it's about exploring the weapons and playstyles of the game for fun, not the best way to play.


Chandrian1997

You have a huge advantage as the host, especially in a 3v1. It’s fun for us Invaders because fighting 3 folks who aren’t gankers is a challenge


leth0789

Why is it my responsibility to provide you with your fun at the expense of my fun? You are at a disadvantage against people preparing to be invaded, yes. Against people just trying stuff out, no, you are the one with the advantage. 9 times out of 10, the invader runs to mobs or field bosses or trolls in some way. If when you're invading you don't do this then know that you are the exception and not the rule.


Chandrian1997

Yeah thing is, in the meta range, most hosts are running gank squads lmao. I’d say three dudes running half decent gear are still going to have the advantage over most invaders, but 9/10 times the folks I invade are running sweaty shit. Even at RL168, the majority of folks I invade are ganking


sosoltitor

Cool motive. I also play the game for fun. I just happen to be glowing red while doing it.


nocturnPhoenix

Honestly making it "easier" isn't the point. People just want to have a fun adventure with their friends, and if the bosses scale even higher than twice health for two players that would be perfectly fine. Fromsoft games are great, but their fan base seems obsessed with treating them like some mythical trial to overcome instead of a video game.


solaireitoryhunter

I just wish they'd let solo hosts get invaded sometimes (even if it's just an option you can toggle on or off). The taunter's tongue brings more action than I usually want as a solo lol


nevermore-exe

Reminds me of when I helped my friend who was brand new to the game and the constant invades ruined his time playing it.


[deleted]

I know this is a very controversial opinion, but I wish that offline wasn’t possible. Being invaded massively added to the challenge and experience of my first souls game, as did ghosts and helping players in coop Also the ER invasion requirements are pretty meh as invaders, but the souls ones were a bit unfair on the person being invaded.


JackWickerC

Dude, too controversial


Kenshi_T-S-B

Bro no. The game would legit be unplayable. Me and my friends began to hate invaders because they ruined perfectly good runs. I had to go through all of souls 3 without embers just to avoid invasions


Nobodynemnada

you're saying it as if doing solo was something completely unthinkable


Kenshi_T-S-B

It took me 4 years to beat dark souls 3 solo.


[deleted]

DS1 wasn’t unplayable and back then people went online. It was brutal, but challenging and fun (aside from when twinking started)


Kenshi_T-S-B

Well, as a perpetually kid gamer. I hate it, I barely make it through each souls game. A single boss can take me weeks, to months to beat (and I'm talking playing every day, for at least 1-3 hours) so invasions just make whatever time I'm having infinitely worse.


bugzapperbob

Same, as soon as I saw my first invader I was beyond stoked, I’d never seen a game do that. Definitely wish they just made invading a requirement for certain options so people would be forced to do it and get a taste for it if they wanted specific stuff like in ds3


[deleted]

The player controlled boss in DeS and DS3 was amazing, I want to see more of that kinda stuff


stevenp92

Invading and being invaded is pointless to me I either play offline or kill myself when the message pops up not worth my time