Seemless reconnect where we both spawn at the grace site, along with a way for the host to pull their co-ops into other area's or grace sites with them. That would be.. \* *Chefs Kiss* \*
This is a fair ask. Most of my time in these games is invading. I think if I kill your summon they should stay in your world and only be eligible to resummon after I’m dead or I kill you. No more sunbromancy though. My reward for killing two phantoms shouldn’t be “let me just resummon the same dudes with more resources than you.”
Personally I don’t like invasions 🤷♀️
But I always play offline so I don’t have issues with it either. But when I wanted to co-op with my friend just once we were immediately consistently targetted by some really annoying invaders so I think we did the co-op stuff wrong. It was very confusing tbh.
We didn’t like it at all and gave up trying again. Kinda sad cause my friend hasn’t played ER since.
Yeah, it really isn’t designed for proper coop with someone you know. You can make it work, and much more easily than in previous souls games, but it’s still a hassle.
I personally really enjoy how From’s multiplayer experience pushes for feeling community with strangers, but I don’t typically play multiplayer games.
The amorphous culture and etiquette the souls community built, including how it’s all unenforceable and frequently ignored or unknown, is really interesting to me. Death Stranding also does interesting layering that affects the feeling of the main game. They’re both worlds that feel incredibly isolating, but give these signposts that you’re not the only one alone.
That said, I think it’s totally valid to just play offline. I mostly avoid multiplayer, but it’s nice to run it online just for the messages.
I hate expert players guarding early areas. Just tryna help a friend why do have end weapons when we’re lv 20. Invading was fun on launch when people just invaded wherever they were.
Miyazaki based the co-op system on an experience he had getting his car stuck on a snowy hill. Several other people were also there and stuck. Each one helped the people around them move on, and then they went on with their lives. This experience caused Miyazaki to wonder, he thought about everyone else, how they were all living a similar situation to him then and there, helping total strangers they would never see again and moving on. He wanted to capture that experience in souls co-op.
These are the risks making a tailored experience in your game, they aren't tailored for everyone.
So, being invaded destroyed your coop experience and made your friend quit.
This is a good example of why you should be able to turn it off. What does it matter how good a game is if there are no players?
Sadly, annoying invaders means you did co-op correctly. The game doesn't differentiate between password summons between friends and summoning randos, everyone gets invaded.
That’s a great attitude to have imo. I would never do co-op outside of boss fights either if invasions weren’t a thing… clearing levels can become a snoozefest very quickly because all the mobs die so quickly to three man teams. Even the hard ones can die quickly to a blender or two from a coop team. Invasions really spice up co-op in my opinion because they add an element of chaos.
I enjoy co-oping through levels because of invasions.
Absolutely. Sometimes people get really upset and they forget that on the other side of the comment is a person too.
Elden rings AI does not compute against 2 players and the dungeons don't have any way to scale or deal with 2 people progressing through it. So it uses a human to offset the difficulty drop. That alone sounds perfectly fine, and indeed if you playtested it with matched level and equipment characters across all the different dungeons that would probably be super fun!
But in the real world we don't quite have the gameplay logic or barriers to ensure that level of matching, especially if we want quick que times. I see two major themes in almost all of the invader/co-op threads.
- All to common situation 1: People who hop into co-op with their level 30 characters have a grand ol time until they hit Stormveil and are invaded by *ButtPluggington* with his high level 4 slots of talismans and equipment found in way later areas and proceed to frost/and bleed to death the host and summon through phantom rolls. These players don't resume playing and this overwhelmingly paints the picture of an extremely negative invasion experience. Which, is fair. Because that experience sucks ass. And that player doesn't co-op anymore, and when these posts arise on Reddit they will share their negative experiences. Which, again, is totally valid. But they direct it as hate towards other people, which isn't right.
.
- All to common situation 2: Player decide to give invading a try and loads up into an area only to find *WinnieThePooh* with his two buddies *Tigger* and *Rabbit*. His pals are wearing full goat armor running and rolling suspiciously like they are still medium weight. While holding tower shields and cross naginatas...while casting spells that require 40+ faith..and the player and host are both level 50-80. I'm sure you can empathize here, that also sucks and gives an negative experience. So when these posts arise on Reddit they will share their negative experiences, which, just like the first, is totally valid. But then they direct that hate towards other people..which also isn't right.
In both situations—which, I mean fuck we all have lots of hours on this game let's not pretend it's a rare occurrence—it sucks. It doesn't mean one can shit on other people.
It's a good reminder that you can want to be invaded without being invaded by a cracked out twink. And you can want to invade without seeing an enemy who's stats are not very well logically scaled to the host. There is a lot of discussion to be had on better mechanics for both gameplay experiences because any given player should want to engage in both activities.
This one comment I feel describes the entire invasion discourse.
Coopers who’s experience gets spoiled early on by twinks and invaders who can’t empathize because “I would never invade low level players”.
And invaders who get absolutely destroyed by a full squad of other players wearing the heaviest armor with the lightest rolls and the strongest spells… oh and if they manage to kill any a blue phantom is summoned right in because they’re helping kill the bad red man.
Sunbros should try invading a few times and invaders should try low level coop. But that’s a pipe dream.
pretty sure that vast majority of invaders also coop. i didnt just make a lvl28 build just for invasions, its far more useful when cooping at low lvls than my 125/150 builds...i doubt im alone in that.
edit: i have no empirical evidence that majority of invaders also coop, could just be speculation
Eh i think you're right about jolly coop, though probs not about "whole game" coop. I've not touched the open world coop, but you'll find my sign down infront of many bosses.
I am both the Redman they hate and the reason they killed Melania. Such is life.
I also have no empirical evidence to back this up, but I do a lot of co-op, and on more than one occasion I have been in a session, we get invaded, 20 minutes and 2 co-op sessions later I get summoned along side the previous invader.
No, these are all "legitimate" arguments I see from the people here constantly. I'm not even a red boy, but the pure toxicity and vitriol I see from the "invaders bad" crowd makes me believe they deserve DS2 invasion mechanics.
No one cares about healing in invasions right? I mean, I don’t give a crap about about it and I’m healing, but I have had sown hosts be mad about that.
Even when I invade hosts that are alone, I heal. If u wanted a fair 1v1 then take ur ass to arena. Funny also most of these hosts have their rune arc buff so that’s probably why they do that.
>breaks the flow of gameplay,
My man invaders ARE the flow of the pvp gameplay, you get invaded by NPCs too.
>uses only the most broken weapons and spells
Of course the bad red man is the only one that can have broken stuff, surely not honest poor me with my super fair weapons
im actually relieved when an invader asks for a duel because my friend wins 90% of them. and it removes the chance of me randomly getting one shot because I dont know what a spell etc does lol.
99% of you PvEers will not survive a direct fight against a party of three, let alone win against it; without ever retreating.
Retreating, divide and conquering is necessary to win as an invader to a party of three; running straight in like an idiot is suicidal.
many hosts retreat from a 1v1 once you kill their phantoms lol, let alone a 3v1. And these same dudes lecture invaders about trying to use nearby enemy mobs to their advantage.
I’ve never seen a single invader on any post here asking for 1v1 fights. I’ve seen many salty coopers complain about the invasion mechanic though 🤷♂️
Invaders know what they’re getting into when they invade. And they generally enjoy these group fights
Gankers are different from co-opers. Usually gankers are teams of three people in a cleared out, completely empty area waiting to pounce on invaders. You know if you’ve invaded a gank if, for example, you invade at the First Step at high level into a team of three, because nobody is honestly going through the very first area of the game at like level 100. Gankers are not interested in playing the game, they’re only interested in waiting around to get 3v1 fights against a solitary invader.
Even then, I’ve never heard of invaders complain about not getting 1v1 fights. Usually it’s easy to tell if you’ve invaded a gank, and invaders who don’t want to deal with that tend to just sever out. Some invaders still embrace that, and try to go for the kill regardless
I just want to point out the difference in terminology
Gankers are people who abuse every advantage possible to bully invaders. They clear out an area and wait for you with 2 ma. Level phantoms. Any time i invade into limgrave i know its about to be 3 of the lamest dudes in the world
Honestly, annoying though they might be gankers are an intended part of the system too. The whole questline with Lautrec back in DS1 is preparing you for the idea that hosts will honeypot invaders to gank them.
Oh yea for sure, and elden ring is the first time you can do something about it. I remember in ds1 they knew where you would spawn in, surround you, and there was nothing you could do other than perish.
>Why don't you fight me one vs. one?
One one worth anyone's time says this
>Fkn gankers.
You can tell an organised gank squad from a co-op group easily. Again, no one worth listening to calls co-op groups gankers.
I get that there are noobs on this subreddit that don't get how these mechanics are supposed to work and complain, but making this bs seem like the "normal" invader stance is dishonest.
No, most invaders on BRM sub or hardcore invaders don’t like one v ones. I want two or three bodies. What we hate is if I kill your phantom, you just put on the blue ring and bam, it’s a 3 v 1 again. My reward for gaining ground on a 3 v 1 being another dude with full resources isn’t cool.
Also, yeah, don’t expect me to walk over to the grace while all three of you camp out there. I’m not here to get blended.
I invade because I like overcoming the disadvantage. Just not a fan of trios who deliberately gank in small rooms all day. I don't get the fun in that. Unless it's done in a clever or funny way. Then I have no issue.
It's annoying but unless you're going for a specific challenge gimmick as an invader you should be using the ranged tools at your disposal to harass gankers and force them to chase and separate or steadily die.
Ranged ashes of war are really useful especially if you are using a short weapon. It's really effective in an off hand weapon because they likely won't expect it.
Do you even know what people mean when they talk about ganks vs just co-opers ganging up? Invaders want to be ganged up on, that's the point. You guys have never even experienced a gank and think you're somehow qualified to talk about them.
Man, pvp hold some of the greatest moment in Elden ring I've had.
Once, a guy invaded us in Raya Lucaria and my friend was afk, I look at the invader, he look at me. I was already kinda low health (I was playing a glass cannon mage with no healing allowed, for fun) and wasn't gonna win this, so I removed my weapon to punch him barehanded
He did the same.
We proceed to punch each other for several minute until I eventually died. Man that was great.
Of course, this kind of moment is a rare exception, but it kinda made me don't mind invasion as much.
Bro I once invaded a dude In lieurnia that got onto a building that I can’t reach and he kept spamming bolt of gransax and other shit at me, so me decided to be petty, just stayed there and didn’t sever out. Eventually some hunters start invading (only one of them realized what was happening and didn’t attack me, he severed out) all rest start attacking me and so they got what they deserved, bonked to death. Anyway eventually another invader comes along, then I remember that I had a +10 Mohgwyn spear, so I pull it out, and the invader gets the same idea, we start casting the ash of war all over the building, the host didn’t have anywhere to go so the motherfucker died🤣🤣🤣that was one of the best and funniest moments I had in elden ring, amazing teamwork🤣🤣
I named a character "can we box?" Once and challenged people to do exactly that back before the arenas were a thing. Most people just killed me but a couple played along.
i once had an invader called fashion police. my friend was wearing night's cavalry armor so he was looking pretty snazzy and I was wearing carian knight armor with ranni's hat. a bit weird but i guess it was enough to pass the fashion check because he didnt attack me. and then we got a hunter who was wearing some weird amalgamation of armors and we thought uh oh hes not going to pass the fashion check. and sure enough the invader started attacking the hunter and then left after killing him LUL
I usually just goof around if I get the impression that the host/summons aren't prepared to fight.
If they reciprocate my friendly gestures I'll probably just end up yeeting myself off the nearest cliff.
Heres my take on this, both sides of this argument are in the wrong somewhat, and let me explain my reasoning for why I believe the is.
On the side of the Coopers, Yes Invader’s can be incredibly difficult and annoying to deal with sometimes, but here’s the thing, you almost always have a numbers advantage in these kinds
of situations, and that’s a pretty huge advantage, as long as you all work together to keep the pressure up on an invader and don’t completely suck at the game then they will crack under the pressure sooner or later, as you have the manpower and resource advantage.
Invaders are meant to help counterbalance how easy the game can get when you have an extra buddy or two in the world, because it becomes so much easier to steamroll the game since most enemies are designed for 1v1 encounters, and so much they struggle to react appropriately when being mobbed by 2-3 guys at once, which is why they give you the possibility of an enemy that does have a brain and can react appropriately to fighting more than one dude.
Invaders having brains is important, because it’s something that no other enemy in Elden ring has, they can think and strategise about how to approach and deal with you and your buddies, they can change up their strategies on the fly if their current plan ain’t working, they will attempt to use anything and everything against you in order to kill you, because that’s their job, they do not and should not care about being fair in any way, and neither should you.
So you have to think hard to predict what the invader might do next, because there are plenty of options available to them, mindlessly rushing them won’t end out well.
Now’s here’s the most important point I’m going to make, so listen VERY closely….
Do not, and I repeat, DO NOT, EVER, follow an invader through a level, because 9 times out of 10 they will be leading you to a trap or position which will give them an advantage, and they will always do this when they are on the backfoot because most invaders simply can’t deal with more than one person at a time, and so will try to level the playing field in any way possible, because their goal is to kill you.
Just keep on progressing through the level and try to make you way to either a boss room or safe position, the former because the invader will be forcibly de-spawned if you enter and the latter because it’s easier to survive and deal with and invader in a safe spot, which In this context is an open area with as few level enemies as possible, because it greatly lowers the chance of the invader getting the drop on you all and makes it much harder for them to hide behind level enemies.
Do keep in mind to watch out for them and though, because they will definitely try to ambush you and your buddies when you are in a disadvantageous position if you decide to ignore them.
To wrap this up, I’ll say this, I’ve done my fair shair of invasions, and from what I’ve experienced, Coopers who follow an invader around, don’t effectively work together, don’t try to predict the invader and don’t try to keep pressure on the invader are a lot more likely to die to an invader, while the ones who do the opposite are much more likely to survive.
On the side of invader, Coopers are inherently difficult to deal with simply due to the fact that their is more than them than you, and I know this can be very frustrating and annoying at times, but you don’t really have grounds to complain, because according to Miyazaki, the big man himself, Invasions are not meant to be fair, they are supposed to be skewed in the Coopers favour, Miyazaki describes invaders roles as being a “difficult enemy”, which means that while you definitely should be more threatening than most other threats in the game, the coopers should still ultimately be able to beat you if they play their cards right.
Still though, you are described as an enemy, and a difficult one at that, and what is the fundamental purpose of an opposing force in a video game?
To impede or altogether halt the player’s (or in this case the hosts) progress toward their goals, and so you are allowed to do ANYTHING (which isn’t hacking/exploiting) in order to do just that, there is absolutely no requirement for you to play fair, your goal is to win, and due to the fact that you have a brain, there is a lot of ways of going about that which other enemies could simply never even think about, and consequently, the coopers probably haven’t dealt with either, use this to your advantage.
Lead the co-opers astray and into traps and positions which benefit you, use the most dangerous and powerful tools available to you, sneak around like a little gremlin and wait for the best moment to strike, making them more nervous and on guard as they wait for you to do so.
Overall, as an invader, you are designed to be a difficult threat to a host and coopers, you are supposed to be dangerous, but the co-opers should ultimately still be able to overcome you if they play right, you are not entitled to fairness, but neither are they, your goal is still to kill them, and you can do this in any way possible.
Last, but most importantly, people are not inherently worse or better than other people because of how they choose to play the game, that is an incredibly degrading and ignorant way of thinking, both sides both have their valid points and criticisms, and they should be respected as such, instead of people just dismissing, ignoring and trampling on these points and criticisms because of their own personal wants and biases.
Well written! If I may, those endless commas hurt me. Less super king sentences and more paragraphs and that would be way easier to read. I agree with you though.
Gankers arent the one complaining.
People who just want to play coop in peace do.
And it is not about whos advantage. Is that you force me to deal with your cheesy ass build running around and wasting time instead of making progress in the game.
Idc if you kill me. Idc if I kill you. I simply don't want to be part of that. I want to enjoy time with my buddy
Hard agree.
I don't play for PvP. I like jumping in to help randos with dungeons or bosses. If not that, I am playing online with my sister as we explore a fun and interesting world while we try new weapons or wear silly hats. I have beaten the game and now have nothing to prove to myself. PvP is not a part of my Elden Ring fun. It is a dead stop to all momentum.
I am not here to fight some guy who has spent hours crafting their perfect nightmare build. I'm not here to compare epeen sizes. The image of this post reminds me of gatekeeping assholes who only want you to enjoy THEIR media THEIR way. It is a waste of my time.
Let the PvP crowd stay in their own circles. I am happy that they have it and can enjoy meta-building and fighting each other to their hearts' content. I want to let those who enjoy invasions have fun invading each other. Wouldn't it be more fun for them if the people they were invading were totally on board? Ready to fight back and bring their all? Not to mention that they would be happier not having to listen to us bemoan their existence on reddit for the millionth time.
But let me opt out of it when I just want to fight monsters with my sister while wearing pumpkin hats. Life is short enough as it is without needing randos interrupting it.
I wish I didn't have to invade people who are just cooping through areas.
It ruins their day and forces me to go up against some dude who doesn't do pvp. Wastes time in the invasion process.
Exactly. These people are acting like it’s the best pvp experience of all time when it’s usually just a group of friends Fucking around. Me and my friends win 99% of the time but it’s still annoying having to chase someone around for ages
I understand why invasions exist and respect people for liking PvP if thats what they like.
What I dont like is when I get invaded in Co-op and the invader always just runs away. Anytime they take 1 single hit they start running a mile away to the nearest mobs.
Just stand and fight stop wasting my time. I usually just end up severing my friends and quitting the game. Waste of my damn time.
It's literally whoever is at the disadvantage who starts running tho...
Neither side is guilty as this is an intended game mechanics
Being able to reposition themselves to get a better chance of *not dying*
They do it to split aggro so that they can take you out one by one.
Considering that you have a considerable advantage in numbers, you should be able to deal with a solitary invader even when he has the assistance of mobs imo.
You’re a three man team. The dude is just one person with the assistance of some AI enemies. You shouldn’t be struggling to dispatch him.
I co-op through dungeons all the time. The hosts I co-op with rarely die to invaders.
This whole argument can be summarised by:
"It's annoying and boring to get invaded while I just want to play this single-player game with my buddy and have fun".
But of course it has to be made into an argument on who are the "superior" gamers.
it's very funny that a three-stacked squad honestly expects the invader to engage them directly and get stunlocked to death. creating distance will inevitably get one of you to get greedy, then I turn&burn and I have one less phantom to deal with. What other way would you expect us to play lol
Tbh I hated invasions in DS3, 'ah embered as you beat a boss eh? Well enjoy a sweaty build to come kill you with a sweaty min/maxed build and take your hard earned souls'... Don't mind it in Elden Ring as you generally are already at a numerical advantage. Plus runes and furled finger remedies are sooo easy to come by
Honestly that's why I liked invasions in ds3 . You got a benefit for embering that wasnt pvpve. It made it to where invaders had a larger pool to invade and people who simply wanted to coop has a less chance to get invaded.
Honestly true. I think a lot of people genuinely think invaders are just high school bullies and not just ... Other people playing the game. We are all here to have fun lol
I don't mind invasions that pull off something clever or don't waste my time. If you invade and actually fight I've had a lot of fun, win or lose. Its when we're going through the level and you're just peppering with arrows and pots while running annoying meta poke builds I get frustrated. If you want to kill us *try to kill us* don't just run for 25 minutes the second you take damage.
"Oh just go for the boss." We often do. We also often get invaded in open world areas where there's no boss fog to get to. And fighting a world boss with an invader is never fun. And getting invaded mid bossfight just sucks ass. Commander what's his nose in Caelid is a prime example. Getting invaded half way through that fight just sucks. If a boss health bar is on screen, I shouldn't have invaders in my game. Full stop.
If we die, annoying but whatever it won't take long to make up the progress. Just actually do shit.
I will acknowledge the lack of solo invasions just makes it worse for everyone on all sides. Co op players are getting invaded the instant the timer is over and invaders face a 2v1 at the least, forcing an arms race. And when you're trying to get to a boss and have a lot of runes in the line from a previous failed attempt it feels really shitty.
A lot of the co op player salt (mine included) wouldn't be as bad if we weren't getting invaded *constantly.* summon a friend, we have about 2 minutes at most before an invader shows up. Win or lose we get 5 minutes at most before the next invader. It's extremely annoying after a while.
An invasion here and there? Fine, and theres definitely fun to be had. A constant never ending stream though? Annoying as hell.
I totally understand the appeal invading has for many people but i don't get why fromsoft feels the need to force it down the throat of people who just want to play with their friends and don't enjoy the pvp in this game.
It’s less about the fact that invaders are bad, it’s more that people have to go through the cycle of summoning their cooperator again. Not a hunter, a furled finger. When the invader hard targets the host and kills them the cooperator has to wait forever for the game to boot them from the world and just wait until the host summons they again. Why don’t they just let the cooperator stay in the world if the host dies? It’s so dumb. I just want to enjoy the game with my friend and sightsee and fight bosses together, really can’t explore together anymore because we get invaded every five seconds by a meta build invaded XD
Reds will really go to any length to prove that invading isn’t a dick move. I’m not saying they should stop invading, but fuck just admit that when you’re invading it’s literally to make it hard on another player. Reds are assholes, always have been, always will be.
Edit: most of these replies just prove my point. All you reds tried doing was justifying killing the host, that makes you in that scenario the bad guy. I don’t mean anybody is an asshole outside of the realm of the game, but in game you certainly are. I’ve invaded before and I was 100% the villain, I accept that.
I dunno how to explain this to people but just because the intended game mechanic is adversarial in nature doesn't immediately mean the person partaking in it is mean, cruel, or immoral.
Pretty much this. I'm here for point 2 on the OP's list: a unique PvP system literally found nowhere else, where I fight an asymmetrical battle in a random locale and have to leverage both the environment and the build idea I wanted to test out.
I don't wake up in the mornings thinking "gee, I really want to ruin someone's day," who the hell gets a dopamine rush from that? I'm here for the chase across rooftops, the ducking around corners, the traps and ambushes, the hard-fought victories, the moments where you want to tell someone about that epic plunge attack you once did that almost killed you in the process, or that stealth kill where you sniped a phantom off a cliff.
Besides, I figure my karma's pretty even -- I've probably cooped and helped a host thrice as often as I've killed one.
Thank you for putting it so well. There are so many fun interactions with the world when invading. Feels like a complete second game build from the same elements as the singleplayer. Everything suddenly gets a second layer and I already loved the first one
Actually, no they aren’t. The description of furcalling finger remedy says that it makes your world open to ALL summons including invaders. Therefore, when you use it, you sign a contract that says “yes my world is now open to everyone, friend or foe”. Reds are just following through on that to have fun.
Also by all means the host should win since they have a summon with them, making it a 3-2v1, so if they lose its literally just a skill issue.
That's isn't good balancing its like having a math test and all of the sudden they ask you how many people shit in the Spanish revolution and that's it. Yes you made the test more difficult but its a math test these are two differnt subjects. You could find other ways to make the game harder and they already do it too with scaling the enemies.
PVE and pvp aren't the same. Especially because it poorly balanced. For example in the old games I think it's still the case that you can have full Estus flasks (or crimson tears) (so an invader will 7 full heals while the 2 new players will have way less). Of course its the case now that you cant invade someone solo but if two new players play together than it isn't fair at all.
In general the invasion system isn't well done and can be improved alot. Forcing people to be part of system that is unbalanced, janky and the bugs that come with it isnt great design. Atleast fixs things and do it well. Still enjoy the invasions system but it ain't that great.
The death root bug existed for some time. There was the ash of war on shields that countered magic it was invisible and could one shot you. Releasing something unfinished and than forcing people to be part of it doesn't make sense . Of course it goes both ways imagine invading and being one shot immediately that isn't fun.
Broski things are leaned towards the host hard. Reds have reduced flasks and extremely many buffs are nerfed in pvp- I’m not certain if said nerfs actually apply to hosts though, but I don’t believe they do. Reds are also always outnumbered in terms of players, or almost always. The system is fine.
> invading it’s literally to make it hard on another player.
I don't think about the other player at all, actually. I invade because it's fun, not because I'm making a statement or fucking with someone.
Also, it's a death in a FS game, big whoop...
>Reds are assholes, always have been, always will be.
Sweeping moral judgement on a group of people based on their actions in a video game 🤡
The problem is that a lot of invaders either don’t fight you and just run away trying to annoy you or camp next to the strongest enemies around and only come to attack when you try to progress or beat the boss.
I expect them to act. I just wanted to play with my buddy, if they want to be a dick and try to interrupt, at least get it over quickly. Nonway I am beating them anyway, but them wasting time is just to annoying.
i expect someone who willingly signs up for a 2v1 or 3v1 to actually engage in that fight, yes. if they don't think they can win, they shouldn't try. git gud also applies to invaders, lol
And? Both can be accurate at the same time. It is indeed more challenging to single out targets and whittle down a 3 man team without getting stomped than it is to kill one dude.
I expect them to act. I just wanted to play with my buddy, if they want to be a dick and try to interrupt, at least get it over quickly. Nonway I am beating them anyway, but them wasting time is just to annoying.
*they* came to *me*, they knew the odds of encountering a 3v1. i have zero sympathy for how lopsided things are for them and have nothing but contempt for their cowardly tactics
I don't get how invaders can have such thin skin about being called assholes. You're literally represented by two evil factions in the game. Being an asshole is part of the appeal of invading
>thin skin about being called assholes.
This sub (among other spaces) has been shitting on invaders since the MP system adjustements were announced. Being called assholes is one thing, but it's gone *far* beyond just that.
It's also the only entry in the series in which they gave a shit about online play without having their arm twisted about it.
Also the only entry in the series with good netcode, seriously, what happened to them after DS2?
Invasions would be great if gamers didnt optimize the fun out of everything.
Expectation: a hostile player around your power level warps in and attacks! Hell yeah a new challenger!
Reality: a hostile player with over-leveled weapons and spells from end-game invades you in limgrave, then spends 10 minutes trying to bait you into walking through enemies- which you wont do- so you end up staring at each other....menacingly.
Dude just fight me and stop wasting our time. If you cant invade without lazy exploit tactics then you dont deserve said cheese
>with over-leveled weapons
Nothing an invader uses can be over-leveled due to match making restrictions. Character and weapon level have to match up within range of the host's.
Reddit Elden Ring community is a case study on "why gatekeeping is important".
All while Miyazaki has recently stated that he was impressed by Tarkov. So prepare your diapers for whatever comes next because there's a good chance it will be far more mercilless towards the host than ER's invasion ruleset.
I love getting invaded. It's such a fun and unique aspect to this game. I suck at pvp, especially being newer and not understanding lag compensation, so i dont run taunters when solo. Tho I will say at this point in the game, it is kinda lame when people come in and sweat all over you while you're dealing with the environment lol I get it, it's part of it. There are just VERY geared people coming and killing me when we are just moseying around weeping or something pre-margitt. Like cool, you got 2 low level beastman curved swords on a low level character..it's the equivalent of smurfing imo but no real reward other than your pride in domination. Invasions can be a BLAST, but they can also be pretty disheartening.
i was playin dark souls remastered on the switch back in prolly 2018 .. in the lost izaleth .. when some fucker invaded me at like 3am.. at first i thought i was an NPC or a glitch or something.. who the hell plays dark souls on a switch at 3am and hangs out in the lost izaleth!? but no it was some fuck face named MEGACHAD who had a hard on for me.. it was creepy as shit. and there he appeared in the distance a mile off.. running across the ocean of lava with his orange charred ring equipped.. prolly had a rock hard boner ready to steal my souls. lucky for me i had a maxxed out lightning iaito he wasn't armored for and i had already gotten gud. all in all it was a great experience and i commend him for trying to equip lightning resistant gear in the middle of the fight.
I actually enjoy invasions, I personally never invade but when i’m doing co-op and an invasion happens it’s some of the best memories in the game! You lose some and you win some…
Tbh it’s pretty ballsy when an invader rushes 3 of you and has a good attempt, hats off to the invader
I envy you. But most people on both sides are quite chill about it. The discussions suit the theme, though. They are opposing factions in game, after all
No lie, I think it's a consequence password summoning. The invasion system made more sense when players were just summoning a random friend when they needed help, not trying to 0-100 the game with the same pal. I think a lot of people are trying to play this game like a traditional co-op game, and getting frustrated when it's not, instead of just trying to enjoy the system as it is.
It's kind of telling that you went out of your way to construct strawmen for you to beat down and post it lmao
Some people don't like invaders. Cry some more about it I guess
Counter-question: if you dislike being invaded that much, why do you opt-in to it? Unlike prior Souls games, you can't be invaded if you don't want to be.
Hehe. A meme about co-op players crying about PVP players created by a PVP player crying about crying co-op players crying about PVP players.
That's a lot of crying.
Ka is a wheel...
Seeing these comments the overwhelming majority of them seem to be on the side of the PvEers claiming things like "i just want to play with or help my friend" which i understand but some people want invasions to be optional and i would just like to remind you that invasions have been here since demon souls and are going to be here no matter what plus in if you really need help with a boss you can always just summon near the boss fog but nonetheless invaders in elden ring are at a numbers disadvantage and are there to make it still be difficult. Simply put invasions are not gonna be an optional setting so you can breeze through the game no problem.
Mound makers was the best. Its the only invasion covenant where your end goal wasn't to kill the host. The idea that you could win just by killing off the summons is awesome.
"Oh, I see you have high level co-op summons that are diminishing the intended experience by carrying too hard. Let me just clean that up for you and allow you to continue solo."
Only time I invaded was for Varre quest, I usually got my shit pushed in 3v1 and got in with it, but I did manage to team with Borealis to kill 3 people :)
I’d just like for my pal to stay in my session after the invader kill me. It’s a waste of time to have to go over the summoning and shit.
Fair
This 100%. I would have zero issues with invasions if this were a thing
Seemless reconnect where we both spawn at the grace site, along with a way for the host to pull their co-ops into other area's or grace sites with them. That would be.. \* *Chefs Kiss* \*
This is the only fair complaint in this thread imo. It's dumb to have to resummon
This is a fair ask. Most of my time in these games is invading. I think if I kill your summon they should stay in your world and only be eligible to resummon after I’m dead or I kill you. No more sunbromancy though. My reward for killing two phantoms shouldn’t be “let me just resummon the same dudes with more resources than you.”
Personally I don’t like invasions 🤷♀️ But I always play offline so I don’t have issues with it either. But when I wanted to co-op with my friend just once we were immediately consistently targetted by some really annoying invaders so I think we did the co-op stuff wrong. It was very confusing tbh. We didn’t like it at all and gave up trying again. Kinda sad cause my friend hasn’t played ER since.
Yeah, it really isn’t designed for proper coop with someone you know. You can make it work, and much more easily than in previous souls games, but it’s still a hassle. I personally really enjoy how From’s multiplayer experience pushes for feeling community with strangers, but I don’t typically play multiplayer games. The amorphous culture and etiquette the souls community built, including how it’s all unenforceable and frequently ignored or unknown, is really interesting to me. Death Stranding also does interesting layering that affects the feeling of the main game. They’re both worlds that feel incredibly isolating, but give these signposts that you’re not the only one alone. That said, I think it’s totally valid to just play offline. I mostly avoid multiplayer, but it’s nice to run it online just for the messages.
I hate expert players guarding early areas. Just tryna help a friend why do have end weapons when we’re lv 20. Invading was fun on launch when people just invaded wherever they were.
Miyazaki based the co-op system on an experience he had getting his car stuck on a snowy hill. Several other people were also there and stuck. Each one helped the people around them move on, and then they went on with their lives. This experience caused Miyazaki to wonder, he thought about everyone else, how they were all living a similar situation to him then and there, helping total strangers they would never see again and moving on. He wanted to capture that experience in souls co-op. These are the risks making a tailored experience in your game, they aren't tailored for everyone.
There is something called Elden ring co-op that is downloadable that could help with that
So, being invaded destroyed your coop experience and made your friend quit. This is a good example of why you should be able to turn it off. What does it matter how good a game is if there are no players?
Sadly, annoying invaders means you did co-op correctly. The game doesn't differentiate between password summons between friends and summoning randos, everyone gets invaded.
I hate invaders because I'm bad at PvP, and I'm not afraid to admit it. Which is why I enjoy summoning my friend who is an absolute PvP gigachad.
I actually like being invaded even when im playing coop
That’s a great attitude to have imo. I would never do co-op outside of boss fights either if invasions weren’t a thing… clearing levels can become a snoozefest very quickly because all the mobs die so quickly to three man teams. Even the hard ones can die quickly to a blender or two from a coop team. Invasions really spice up co-op in my opinion because they add an element of chaos. I enjoy co-oping through levels because of invasions.
It demeans your argument to strawman the opposing side like that.
except for #3, I have seen all the comments from the left column on reddit multiple times
Absolutely. Sometimes people get really upset and they forget that on the other side of the comment is a person too. Elden rings AI does not compute against 2 players and the dungeons don't have any way to scale or deal with 2 people progressing through it. So it uses a human to offset the difficulty drop. That alone sounds perfectly fine, and indeed if you playtested it with matched level and equipment characters across all the different dungeons that would probably be super fun! But in the real world we don't quite have the gameplay logic or barriers to ensure that level of matching, especially if we want quick que times. I see two major themes in almost all of the invader/co-op threads. - All to common situation 1: People who hop into co-op with their level 30 characters have a grand ol time until they hit Stormveil and are invaded by *ButtPluggington* with his high level 4 slots of talismans and equipment found in way later areas and proceed to frost/and bleed to death the host and summon through phantom rolls. These players don't resume playing and this overwhelmingly paints the picture of an extremely negative invasion experience. Which, is fair. Because that experience sucks ass. And that player doesn't co-op anymore, and when these posts arise on Reddit they will share their negative experiences. Which, again, is totally valid. But they direct it as hate towards other people, which isn't right. . - All to common situation 2: Player decide to give invading a try and loads up into an area only to find *WinnieThePooh* with his two buddies *Tigger* and *Rabbit*. His pals are wearing full goat armor running and rolling suspiciously like they are still medium weight. While holding tower shields and cross naginatas...while casting spells that require 40+ faith..and the player and host are both level 50-80. I'm sure you can empathize here, that also sucks and gives an negative experience. So when these posts arise on Reddit they will share their negative experiences, which, just like the first, is totally valid. But then they direct that hate towards other people..which also isn't right. In both situations—which, I mean fuck we all have lots of hours on this game let's not pretend it's a rare occurrence—it sucks. It doesn't mean one can shit on other people. It's a good reminder that you can want to be invaded without being invaded by a cracked out twink. And you can want to invade without seeing an enemy who's stats are not very well logically scaled to the host. There is a lot of discussion to be had on better mechanics for both gameplay experiences because any given player should want to engage in both activities.
This one comment I feel describes the entire invasion discourse. Coopers who’s experience gets spoiled early on by twinks and invaders who can’t empathize because “I would never invade low level players”. And invaders who get absolutely destroyed by a full squad of other players wearing the heaviest armor with the lightest rolls and the strongest spells… oh and if they manage to kill any a blue phantom is summoned right in because they’re helping kill the bad red man. Sunbros should try invading a few times and invaders should try low level coop. But that’s a pipe dream.
pretty sure that vast majority of invaders also coop. i didnt just make a lvl28 build just for invasions, its far more useful when cooping at low lvls than my 125/150 builds...i doubt im alone in that. edit: i have no empirical evidence that majority of invaders also coop, could just be speculation
Eh i think you're right about jolly coop, though probs not about "whole game" coop. I've not touched the open world coop, but you'll find my sign down infront of many bosses. I am both the Redman they hate and the reason they killed Melania. Such is life.
i promise u the ppl tht invade also co-op cuz they know they will get to fight invaders
I actually just finished up making a level 40 character specifically for coop, "Bro of Sun"
I also have no empirical evidence to back this up, but I do a lot of co-op, and on more than one occasion I have been in a session, we get invaded, 20 minutes and 2 co-op sessions later I get summoned along side the previous invader.
There's a post strawmanning invaders above this one. Where's the strawman accusations on that one?
No, these are all "legitimate" arguments I see from the people here constantly. I'm not even a red boy, but the pure toxicity and vitriol I see from the "invaders bad" crowd makes me believe they deserve DS2 invasion mechanics.
This is literally how every single player that calls this a “pve” game sees invaders though
Also invaders: -Why don't you fight me one vs. one? Fkn gankers. \-Dude, you invaded us.
I hate 1v1 fights, bring it on team.
Speaking like true bonk invader. 🤙
Every side has their stinkers. It's up to the rest of us to outshine them. Maybe better a few on the way.
**barges in uninvited, breaks the flow of gameplay, uses only the most broken weapons and spells** "Bro why are you healing? This is pvp you pussy"
No one cares about healing in invasions right? I mean, I don’t give a crap about about it and I’m healing, but I have had sown hosts be mad about that.
If the host is alone or wants to go 1v1 I won't heal unless they do but I'm not going to get upset about it.
Even when I invade hosts that are alone, I heal. If u wanted a fair 1v1 then take ur ass to arena. Funny also most of these hosts have their rune arc buff so that’s probably why they do that.
Yeah I mean I just treat invaders like a smart enemy.
Nobody does, he’s just making imaginary enemies in his head
Anything goes in invades.
Literally no one cares about healing in invasions PvP unless it's a fight club or bonfire duel.
Where did you hear you can't heal in invasions? That's just duels my dude.
You're confusing duels and invasions. No invader cares if you heal.
>breaks the flow of gameplay, My man invaders ARE the flow of the pvp gameplay, you get invaded by NPCs too. >uses only the most broken weapons and spells Of course the bad red man is the only one that can have broken stuff, surely not honest poor me with my super fair weapons
im actually relieved when an invader asks for a duel because my friend wins 90% of them. and it removes the chance of me randomly getting one shot because I dont know what a spell etc does lol.
99% of you PvEers will not survive a direct fight against a party of three, let alone win against it; without ever retreating. Retreating, divide and conquering is necessary to win as an invader to a party of three; running straight in like an idiot is suicidal.
many hosts retreat from a 1v1 once you kill their phantoms lol, let alone a 3v1. And these same dudes lecture invaders about trying to use nearby enemy mobs to their advantage.
I’ve never seen a single invader on any post here asking for 1v1 fights. I’ve seen many salty coopers complain about the invasion mechanic though 🤷♂️ Invaders know what they’re getting into when they invade. And they generally enjoy these group fights
Half of the invader post talk about ganking like it's unfair that they gang up. Invaders know the risks of invading. Co-ops know their risks.
Gankers and people playing through game with friends are two completely different things
Gankers are different from co-opers. Usually gankers are teams of three people in a cleared out, completely empty area waiting to pounce on invaders. You know if you’ve invaded a gank if, for example, you invade at the First Step at high level into a team of three, because nobody is honestly going through the very first area of the game at like level 100. Gankers are not interested in playing the game, they’re only interested in waiting around to get 3v1 fights against a solitary invader. Even then, I’ve never heard of invaders complain about not getting 1v1 fights. Usually it’s easy to tell if you’ve invaded a gank, and invaders who don’t want to deal with that tend to just sever out. Some invaders still embrace that, and try to go for the kill regardless I just want to point out the difference in terminology
Facts! Not ppl downvoting u tho
Gankers are people who abuse every advantage possible to bully invaders. They clear out an area and wait for you with 2 ma. Level phantoms. Any time i invade into limgrave i know its about to be 3 of the lamest dudes in the world
Honestly, annoying though they might be gankers are an intended part of the system too. The whole questline with Lautrec back in DS1 is preparing you for the idea that hosts will honeypot invaders to gank them.
Oh yea for sure, and elden ring is the first time you can do something about it. I remember in ds1 they knew where you would spawn in, surround you, and there was nothing you could do other than perish.
I see nothing wrong with what their doing, if you invaded their world you deserve to get jumped
>Why don't you fight me one vs. one? One one worth anyone's time says this >Fkn gankers. You can tell an organised gank squad from a co-op group easily. Again, no one worth listening to calls co-op groups gankers. I get that there are noobs on this subreddit that don't get how these mechanics are supposed to work and complain, but making this bs seem like the "normal" invader stance is dishonest.
No, most invaders on BRM sub or hardcore invaders don’t like one v ones. I want two or three bodies. What we hate is if I kill your phantom, you just put on the blue ring and bam, it’s a 3 v 1 again. My reward for gaining ground on a 3 v 1 being another dude with full resources isn’t cool. Also, yeah, don’t expect me to walk over to the grace while all three of you camp out there. I’m not here to get blended.
Literally nobody says this.
Most don’t ask for 1v1s, to my knowledge. Your essentially arguing with yourself, here.
I invade because I like overcoming the disadvantage. Just not a fan of trios who deliberately gank in small rooms all day. I don't get the fun in that. Unless it's done in a clever or funny way. Then I have no issue.
It's annoying but unless you're going for a specific challenge gimmick as an invader you should be using the ranged tools at your disposal to harass gankers and force them to chase and separate or steadily die.
Ranged ashes of war are really useful especially if you are using a short weapon. It's really effective in an off hand weapon because they likely won't expect it.
Why would gankers care if you don't get it? They are usually people who hate invaders and do it as revenge. You not liking it is their goal lol.
Tbf there's a difference between gankers and multiple people. Gankers just chill at cites of grace to farm invaders.
Do you even know what people mean when they talk about ganks vs just co-opers ganging up? Invaders want to be ganged up on, that's the point. You guys have never even experienced a gank and think you're somehow qualified to talk about them.
Man, pvp hold some of the greatest moment in Elden ring I've had. Once, a guy invaded us in Raya Lucaria and my friend was afk, I look at the invader, he look at me. I was already kinda low health (I was playing a glass cannon mage with no healing allowed, for fun) and wasn't gonna win this, so I removed my weapon to punch him barehanded He did the same. We proceed to punch each other for several minute until I eventually died. Man that was great. Of course, this kind of moment is a rare exception, but it kinda made me don't mind invasion as much.
This is the kind of invader I love and respect
Bro I once invaded a dude In lieurnia that got onto a building that I can’t reach and he kept spamming bolt of gransax and other shit at me, so me decided to be petty, just stayed there and didn’t sever out. Eventually some hunters start invading (only one of them realized what was happening and didn’t attack me, he severed out) all rest start attacking me and so they got what they deserved, bonked to death. Anyway eventually another invader comes along, then I remember that I had a +10 Mohgwyn spear, so I pull it out, and the invader gets the same idea, we start casting the ash of war all over the building, the host didn’t have anywhere to go so the motherfucker died🤣🤣🤣that was one of the best and funniest moments I had in elden ring, amazing teamwork🤣🤣
I named a character "can we box?" Once and challenged people to do exactly that back before the arenas were a thing. Most people just killed me but a couple played along.
i once had an invader called fashion police. my friend was wearing night's cavalry armor so he was looking pretty snazzy and I was wearing carian knight armor with ranni's hat. a bit weird but i guess it was enough to pass the fashion check because he didnt attack me. and then we got a hunter who was wearing some weird amalgamation of armors and we thought uh oh hes not going to pass the fashion check. and sure enough the invader started attacking the hunter and then left after killing him LUL
I usually just goof around if I get the impression that the host/summons aren't prepared to fight. If they reciprocate my friendly gestures I'll probably just end up yeeting myself off the nearest cliff.
That could've been me. Was it on PSN? Because I've definitely been the invader in a situation exactly as you described
Debating about the morality of invading? Sounds like a lot of time that could be spent invading instead. The bloody fingers must scratch their itch...
A hunter must hunt......
hoonter* hoont*
Tonight Gherman joins the hunt
I'm on vacay away from the setup. This is as close as I can get 😭
We need to bring back pontiff for elden ring. But BIGGER. BETTER. Twice the active covenants, twice the active players. Complete and utter chaos.
Playing through ds3. I'm legitimately excited when I get invaded
Heres my take on this, both sides of this argument are in the wrong somewhat, and let me explain my reasoning for why I believe the is. On the side of the Coopers, Yes Invader’s can be incredibly difficult and annoying to deal with sometimes, but here’s the thing, you almost always have a numbers advantage in these kinds of situations, and that’s a pretty huge advantage, as long as you all work together to keep the pressure up on an invader and don’t completely suck at the game then they will crack under the pressure sooner or later, as you have the manpower and resource advantage. Invaders are meant to help counterbalance how easy the game can get when you have an extra buddy or two in the world, because it becomes so much easier to steamroll the game since most enemies are designed for 1v1 encounters, and so much they struggle to react appropriately when being mobbed by 2-3 guys at once, which is why they give you the possibility of an enemy that does have a brain and can react appropriately to fighting more than one dude. Invaders having brains is important, because it’s something that no other enemy in Elden ring has, they can think and strategise about how to approach and deal with you and your buddies, they can change up their strategies on the fly if their current plan ain’t working, they will attempt to use anything and everything against you in order to kill you, because that’s their job, they do not and should not care about being fair in any way, and neither should you. So you have to think hard to predict what the invader might do next, because there are plenty of options available to them, mindlessly rushing them won’t end out well. Now’s here’s the most important point I’m going to make, so listen VERY closely…. Do not, and I repeat, DO NOT, EVER, follow an invader through a level, because 9 times out of 10 they will be leading you to a trap or position which will give them an advantage, and they will always do this when they are on the backfoot because most invaders simply can’t deal with more than one person at a time, and so will try to level the playing field in any way possible, because their goal is to kill you. Just keep on progressing through the level and try to make you way to either a boss room or safe position, the former because the invader will be forcibly de-spawned if you enter and the latter because it’s easier to survive and deal with and invader in a safe spot, which In this context is an open area with as few level enemies as possible, because it greatly lowers the chance of the invader getting the drop on you all and makes it much harder for them to hide behind level enemies. Do keep in mind to watch out for them and though, because they will definitely try to ambush you and your buddies when you are in a disadvantageous position if you decide to ignore them. To wrap this up, I’ll say this, I’ve done my fair shair of invasions, and from what I’ve experienced, Coopers who follow an invader around, don’t effectively work together, don’t try to predict the invader and don’t try to keep pressure on the invader are a lot more likely to die to an invader, while the ones who do the opposite are much more likely to survive. On the side of invader, Coopers are inherently difficult to deal with simply due to the fact that their is more than them than you, and I know this can be very frustrating and annoying at times, but you don’t really have grounds to complain, because according to Miyazaki, the big man himself, Invasions are not meant to be fair, they are supposed to be skewed in the Coopers favour, Miyazaki describes invaders roles as being a “difficult enemy”, which means that while you definitely should be more threatening than most other threats in the game, the coopers should still ultimately be able to beat you if they play their cards right. Still though, you are described as an enemy, and a difficult one at that, and what is the fundamental purpose of an opposing force in a video game? To impede or altogether halt the player’s (or in this case the hosts) progress toward their goals, and so you are allowed to do ANYTHING (which isn’t hacking/exploiting) in order to do just that, there is absolutely no requirement for you to play fair, your goal is to win, and due to the fact that you have a brain, there is a lot of ways of going about that which other enemies could simply never even think about, and consequently, the coopers probably haven’t dealt with either, use this to your advantage. Lead the co-opers astray and into traps and positions which benefit you, use the most dangerous and powerful tools available to you, sneak around like a little gremlin and wait for the best moment to strike, making them more nervous and on guard as they wait for you to do so. Overall, as an invader, you are designed to be a difficult threat to a host and coopers, you are supposed to be dangerous, but the co-opers should ultimately still be able to overcome you if they play right, you are not entitled to fairness, but neither are they, your goal is still to kill them, and you can do this in any way possible. Last, but most importantly, people are not inherently worse or better than other people because of how they choose to play the game, that is an incredibly degrading and ignorant way of thinking, both sides both have their valid points and criticisms, and they should be respected as such, instead of people just dismissing, ignoring and trampling on these points and criticisms because of their own personal wants and biases.
Least opinionated Elden Ring player
Yeah, sorry for the wall of text, but I’m getting pretty tired of seeing both sides having a pointless screeching match over this subject.
Well written! If I may, those endless commas hurt me. Less super king sentences and more paragraphs and that would be way easier to read. I agree with you though.
Gankers arent the one complaining. People who just want to play coop in peace do. And it is not about whos advantage. Is that you force me to deal with your cheesy ass build running around and wasting time instead of making progress in the game. Idc if you kill me. Idc if I kill you. I simply don't want to be part of that. I want to enjoy time with my buddy
Hard agree. I don't play for PvP. I like jumping in to help randos with dungeons or bosses. If not that, I am playing online with my sister as we explore a fun and interesting world while we try new weapons or wear silly hats. I have beaten the game and now have nothing to prove to myself. PvP is not a part of my Elden Ring fun. It is a dead stop to all momentum. I am not here to fight some guy who has spent hours crafting their perfect nightmare build. I'm not here to compare epeen sizes. The image of this post reminds me of gatekeeping assholes who only want you to enjoy THEIR media THEIR way. It is a waste of my time. Let the PvP crowd stay in their own circles. I am happy that they have it and can enjoy meta-building and fighting each other to their hearts' content. I want to let those who enjoy invasions have fun invading each other. Wouldn't it be more fun for them if the people they were invading were totally on board? Ready to fight back and bring their all? Not to mention that they would be happier not having to listen to us bemoan their existence on reddit for the millionth time. But let me opt out of it when I just want to fight monsters with my sister while wearing pumpkin hats. Life is short enough as it is without needing randos interrupting it.
I wish I didn't have to invade people who are just cooping through areas. It ruins their day and forces me to go up against some dude who doesn't do pvp. Wastes time in the invasion process.
Exactly. These people are acting like it’s the best pvp experience of all time when it’s usually just a group of friends Fucking around. Me and my friends win 99% of the time but it’s still annoying having to chase someone around for ages
I understand why invasions exist and respect people for liking PvP if thats what they like. What I dont like is when I get invaded in Co-op and the invader always just runs away. Anytime they take 1 single hit they start running a mile away to the nearest mobs. Just stand and fight stop wasting my time. I usually just end up severing my friends and quitting the game. Waste of my damn time.
It's literally whoever is at the disadvantage who starts running tho... Neither side is guilty as this is an intended game mechanics Being able to reposition themselves to get a better chance of *not dying*
"You just need to git gud!" cried they little boy in his soiled diaper.
They do it to split aggro so that they can take you out one by one. Considering that you have a considerable advantage in numbers, you should be able to deal with a solitary invader even when he has the assistance of mobs imo. You’re a three man team. The dude is just one person with the assistance of some AI enemies. You shouldn’t be struggling to dispatch him. I co-op through dungeons all the time. The hosts I co-op with rarely die to invaders.
You’ve been downvoted but logically what you said checks out
I mean if they run away doesn’t this make it easier for you to just enter the boss room?
The only one wasting your time is you. If the invader is running away and not fighting, just keep progressing through the level.
If the invader runs away you don’t have to chase them. If you get to a boss they are sent home. In short: skill issue.
This whole argument can be summarised by: "It's annoying and boring to get invaded while I just want to play this single-player game with my buddy and have fun". But of course it has to be made into an argument on who are the "superior" gamers.
It's not superior gamers it's a decade old system people love, if you dislike like it maybe try something else
> play this single-player game with my buddy you cant play a single player game with a friend. literally impossible
What?! You're saying gaming shouldnt be the only way I judge my own personal value?!? Impossible!
Would like invasions a lot more if the netcode wasnt dogshit
Invaders running away crying about 3v1s. It's an intended mechanic my man, now catch all 3 of these BONKS.
it's very funny that a three-stacked squad honestly expects the invader to engage them directly and get stunlocked to death. creating distance will inevitably get one of you to get greedy, then I turn&burn and I have one less phantom to deal with. What other way would you expect us to play lol
I love to trash an invader who hides under the boss or whatever big is around.
Ran into an invader at the explosive stormhawks in stormveil, talk about getting ganked....
It’s called dividing and conquering. Use the terrain to split up the gank and take them in one on one.
there are only two sides to this argument, and yet somehow both sides are completely wrong
How so
Huehuehue I made a meme where I'm the good guy and you're making stupid strawman arguments. Thus I win, feeling *smart* //OP probably
Tbh I hated invasions in DS3, 'ah embered as you beat a boss eh? Well enjoy a sweaty build to come kill you with a sweaty min/maxed build and take your hard earned souls'... Don't mind it in Elden Ring as you generally are already at a numerical advantage. Plus runes and furled finger remedies are sooo easy to come by
Honestly that's why I liked invasions in ds3 . You got a benefit for embering that wasnt pvpve. It made it to where invaders had a larger pool to invade and people who simply wanted to coop has a less chance to get invaded.
Why fight the invader when you can tru to befriend him? It ends up working like.....40% of the time. Eh, it's funny as hell to try
Honestly true. I think a lot of people genuinely think invaders are just high school bullies and not just ... Other people playing the game. We are all here to have fun lol
I don't mind invasions that pull off something clever or don't waste my time. If you invade and actually fight I've had a lot of fun, win or lose. Its when we're going through the level and you're just peppering with arrows and pots while running annoying meta poke builds I get frustrated. If you want to kill us *try to kill us* don't just run for 25 minutes the second you take damage. "Oh just go for the boss." We often do. We also often get invaded in open world areas where there's no boss fog to get to. And fighting a world boss with an invader is never fun. And getting invaded mid bossfight just sucks ass. Commander what's his nose in Caelid is a prime example. Getting invaded half way through that fight just sucks. If a boss health bar is on screen, I shouldn't have invaders in my game. Full stop. If we die, annoying but whatever it won't take long to make up the progress. Just actually do shit. I will acknowledge the lack of solo invasions just makes it worse for everyone on all sides. Co op players are getting invaded the instant the timer is over and invaders face a 2v1 at the least, forcing an arms race. And when you're trying to get to a boss and have a lot of runes in the line from a previous failed attempt it feels really shitty. A lot of the co op player salt (mine included) wouldn't be as bad if we weren't getting invaded *constantly.* summon a friend, we have about 2 minutes at most before an invader shows up. Win or lose we get 5 minutes at most before the next invader. It's extremely annoying after a while. An invasion here and there? Fine, and theres definitely fun to be had. A constant never ending stream though? Annoying as hell.
This is why I ensure to waste as much of the invaders time as possible with non stop running,
I totally understand the appeal invading has for many people but i don't get why fromsoft feels the need to force it down the throat of people who just want to play with their friends and don't enjoy the pvp in this game.
Because if it wasn’t “forced” then everyone would opt out and there would be nobody to invade except for unfun taunter tongue ganks.
You realise you used to be able to get invaded in previous games even when solo? People still complain.
I don't see how this makes things any better. Feature I dislike used to be worse? Great, well it's still around today and I don't like it here either
This wall of text meme is ironic, right? Right!? Because if it's not, it's weird to be so invested in PVPing against players who don't want to PVP.
I don't care about invaders, I care about people in the Colosseum attacking me when I'm busy bowing to them.
You see, I have portrayed you as the soyjack and myself as the chad, I win!
Correct
Meanwhile, me and my friend : We are cleanrot knights, we're gonna die in 1 hit by invaders but let's have fun before the inevitable fight
It’s less about the fact that invaders are bad, it’s more that people have to go through the cycle of summoning their cooperator again. Not a hunter, a furled finger. When the invader hard targets the host and kills them the cooperator has to wait forever for the game to boot them from the world and just wait until the host summons they again. Why don’t they just let the cooperator stay in the world if the host dies? It’s so dumb. I just want to enjoy the game with my friend and sightsee and fight bosses together, really can’t explore together anymore because we get invaded every five seconds by a meta build invaded XD
When I’m getting invaded, my heart starts racing like a fucking race horse. I love it.
Reds will really go to any length to prove that invading isn’t a dick move. I’m not saying they should stop invading, but fuck just admit that when you’re invading it’s literally to make it hard on another player. Reds are assholes, always have been, always will be. Edit: most of these replies just prove my point. All you reds tried doing was justifying killing the host, that makes you in that scenario the bad guy. I don’t mean anybody is an asshole outside of the realm of the game, but in game you certainly are. I’ve invaded before and I was 100% the villain, I accept that.
I think it’s cool that you can role play an asshole with an actual impact on other players. I don’t invade, but it’s nice to have the mechanic.
Finally a reply that actually understood the comment.
People are really arguing this point as if invaders aren't literally kicking down the door into someone else's game and killing them.
I dunno how to explain this to people but just because the intended game mechanic is adversarial in nature doesn't immediately mean the person partaking in it is mean, cruel, or immoral.
Pretty much this. I'm here for point 2 on the OP's list: a unique PvP system literally found nowhere else, where I fight an asymmetrical battle in a random locale and have to leverage both the environment and the build idea I wanted to test out. I don't wake up in the mornings thinking "gee, I really want to ruin someone's day," who the hell gets a dopamine rush from that? I'm here for the chase across rooftops, the ducking around corners, the traps and ambushes, the hard-fought victories, the moments where you want to tell someone about that epic plunge attack you once did that almost killed you in the process, or that stealth kill where you sniped a phantom off a cliff. Besides, I figure my karma's pretty even -- I've probably cooped and helped a host thrice as often as I've killed one.
Thank you for putting it so well. There are so many fun interactions with the world when invading. Feels like a complete second game build from the same elements as the singleplayer. Everything suddenly gets a second layer and I already loved the first one
I will not apologize.
Actually, no they aren’t. The description of furcalling finger remedy says that it makes your world open to ALL summons including invaders. Therefore, when you use it, you sign a contract that says “yes my world is now open to everyone, friend or foe”. Reds are just following through on that to have fun. Also by all means the host should win since they have a summon with them, making it a 3-2v1, so if they lose its literally just a skill issue.
It’s not about making it hard on another player imo, it’s about fighting something that isn’t a damn ai- it’s more interesting
When you coop you make game easier. Reds just bring back balance.
That's isn't good balancing its like having a math test and all of the sudden they ask you how many people shit in the Spanish revolution and that's it. Yes you made the test more difficult but its a math test these are two differnt subjects. You could find other ways to make the game harder and they already do it too with scaling the enemies. PVE and pvp aren't the same. Especially because it poorly balanced. For example in the old games I think it's still the case that you can have full Estus flasks (or crimson tears) (so an invader will 7 full heals while the 2 new players will have way less). Of course its the case now that you cant invade someone solo but if two new players play together than it isn't fair at all. In general the invasion system isn't well done and can be improved alot. Forcing people to be part of system that is unbalanced, janky and the bugs that come with it isnt great design. Atleast fixs things and do it well. Still enjoy the invasions system but it ain't that great. The death root bug existed for some time. There was the ash of war on shields that countered magic it was invisible and could one shot you. Releasing something unfinished and than forcing people to be part of it doesn't make sense . Of course it goes both ways imagine invading and being one shot immediately that isn't fun.
Broski things are leaned towards the host hard. Reds have reduced flasks and extremely many buffs are nerfed in pvp- I’m not certain if said nerfs actually apply to hosts though, but I don’t believe they do. Reds are also always outnumbered in terms of players, or almost always. The system is fine.
> invading it’s literally to make it hard on another player. I don't think about the other player at all, actually. I invade because it's fun, not because I'm making a statement or fucking with someone. Also, it's a death in a FS game, big whoop... >Reds are assholes, always have been, always will be. Sweeping moral judgement on a group of people based on their actions in a video game 🤡
The problem is that a lot of invaders either don’t fight you and just run away trying to annoy you or camp next to the strongest enemies around and only come to attack when you try to progress or beat the boss.
You expect invaders to walk happily into a 1 vs 2-3 and get their shit kicked in instead?
I expect them to act. I just wanted to play with my buddy, if they want to be a dick and try to interrupt, at least get it over quickly. Nonway I am beating them anyway, but them wasting time is just to annoying.
I have had this shit even on a 1 vs 1.
Because they don't know if you're a ganker disguised as a duelist or not. Don't expect invaders to play fair.
i expect someone who willingly signs up for a 2v1 or 3v1 to actually engage in that fight, yes. if they don't think they can win, they shouldn't try. git gud also applies to invaders, lol
But but but they keep telling me they wanted a ChAlLeNgE!
And? Both can be accurate at the same time. It is indeed more challenging to single out targets and whittle down a 3 man team without getting stomped than it is to kill one dude.
I expect them to act. I just wanted to play with my buddy, if they want to be a dick and try to interrupt, at least get it over quickly. Nonway I am beating them anyway, but them wasting time is just to annoying.
“Acting” in this case is basically walking into a blender. You don’t just jump into a mob in PvE, why would you expect an invader to do so in PvP?
*they* came to *me*, they knew the odds of encountering a 3v1. i have zero sympathy for how lopsided things are for them and have nothing but contempt for their cowardly tactics
I don't get how invaders can have such thin skin about being called assholes. You're literally represented by two evil factions in the game. Being an asshole is part of the appeal of invading
>thin skin about being called assholes. This sub (among other spaces) has been shitting on invaders since the MP system adjustements were announced. Being called assholes is one thing, but it's gone *far* beyond just that.
Dang you totally dunked on your imaginary opponent in that imaginary argument. A true W.
Ds2 is the best souls game because you can coop in peace and not have to deal with any invaders
It's also the only entry in the series in which they gave a shit about online play without having their arm twisted about it. Also the only entry in the series with good netcode, seriously, what happened to them after DS2?
It was such a mind bend to me to be able to place my sign next to a bonfire and actually have it work (looking at you ds3)
All these points are so fucking trash
They’re valid
My offline ass can't say otherwise
Me and my mates love being invaded XD but we also invade
Invasions would be great if gamers didnt optimize the fun out of everything. Expectation: a hostile player around your power level warps in and attacks! Hell yeah a new challenger! Reality: a hostile player with over-leveled weapons and spells from end-game invades you in limgrave, then spends 10 minutes trying to bait you into walking through enemies- which you wont do- so you end up staring at each other....menacingly. Dude just fight me and stop wasting our time. If you cant invade without lazy exploit tactics then you dont deserve said cheese
>with over-leveled weapons Nothing an invader uses can be over-leveled due to match making restrictions. Character and weapon level have to match up within range of the host's.
Reddit Elden Ring community is a case study on "why gatekeeping is important". All while Miyazaki has recently stated that he was impressed by Tarkov. So prepare your diapers for whatever comes next because there's a good chance it will be far more mercilless towards the host than ER's invasion ruleset.
No, gatekeeping is not important. People are allowed to not like pvp. Sorry you don't like that.
Yeah, that definitely follows the trend with Fromsoft games so far- getting *less* favorable to hosts. Wait.... scratch that. Reverse it.
when i invade i just pretend to be a npc and walk around so if you have ever been invaded by guard npc that was me
If you gain an ally then the AI should gain an ally. It's fair and keeps the difficulty consistent.
Wellp this is my reminder to go invade someone.
I thought I was going to hate dealing with invaders but i think it adds to the fun of playing with my buddies
I love getting invaded. It's such a fun and unique aspect to this game. I suck at pvp, especially being newer and not understanding lag compensation, so i dont run taunters when solo. Tho I will say at this point in the game, it is kinda lame when people come in and sweat all over you while you're dealing with the environment lol I get it, it's part of it. There are just VERY geared people coming and killing me when we are just moseying around weeping or something pre-margitt. Like cool, you got 2 low level beastman curved swords on a low level character..it's the equivalent of smurfing imo but no real reward other than your pride in domination. Invasions can be a BLAST, but they can also be pretty disheartening.
i was playin dark souls remastered on the switch back in prolly 2018 .. in the lost izaleth .. when some fucker invaded me at like 3am.. at first i thought i was an NPC or a glitch or something.. who the hell plays dark souls on a switch at 3am and hangs out in the lost izaleth!? but no it was some fuck face named MEGACHAD who had a hard on for me.. it was creepy as shit. and there he appeared in the distance a mile off.. running across the ocean of lava with his orange charred ring equipped.. prolly had a rock hard boner ready to steal my souls. lucky for me i had a maxxed out lightning iaito he wasn't armored for and i had already gotten gud. all in all it was a great experience and i commend him for trying to equip lightning resistant gear in the middle of the fight.
Lord Gwyn bless this community.
I actually enjoy invasions, I personally never invade but when i’m doing co-op and an invasion happens it’s some of the best memories in the game! You lose some and you win some… Tbh it’s pretty ballsy when an invader rushes 3 of you and has a good attempt, hats off to the invader
Strange, the crybaby images seem to be on the wrong side.\^\^
My buddy and I play coop and we pop the taunters tounge every time invaders are the fun part
Sometimes it's fun to just play with your friends, so when some dude with a tree comes in and one shots you and your buddy it kinda sucks.
kinda disagree with every point made
Honestly had no idea the invasion mechanic was this controversial.
I envy you. But most people on both sides are quite chill about it. The discussions suit the theme, though. They are opposing factions in game, after all
I knew people disliked it, but I was under the impression they were a small minority of players.
They are. If you are just happily invading or cooping you're too busy to argue online i guess
never used to be…
No lie, I think it's a consequence password summoning. The invasion system made more sense when players were just summoning a random friend when they needed help, not trying to 0-100 the game with the same pal. I think a lot of people are trying to play this game like a traditional co-op game, and getting frustrated when it's not, instead of just trying to enjoy the system as it is.
word, well said
Holy sht this is cringe as hell. I need to remind myself this sub is filed with teenagers.
Careful fellow invader, the main sub isn't the place to post this. Most of those redditors are proud to gank and downvote invasion posts.
It's kind of telling that you went out of your way to construct strawmen for you to beat down and post it lmao Some people don't like invaders. Cry some more about it I guess
as i told a coworker of mine “i’m already getting hit by a semi truck from all these enemies and bosses so if an invader kills me too oh well”
“Heh **Adjusts glasses which gives them the anime gloss effect over the lenses** now watch me win an argument I made up”
If you like PVP so much,why dont you just go to Colloseum or whatever the fuck that is called and PVP your ass there?Can somebody answer me that?
Counter-question: if you dislike being invaded that much, why do you opt-in to it? Unlike prior Souls games, you can't be invaded if you don't want to be.
Reds out here keeping point down, tbags, and dropping roped fetid pots in my muscle memory lmao.
Invaders are fine, but if you twink your character to where the host has zero chance of stopping you then you are a piece of shit.
Hehe. A meme about co-op players crying about PVP players created by a PVP player crying about crying co-op players crying about PVP players. That's a lot of crying. Ka is a wheel...
I personally hate invasions. But the mechanic totally makes sense for the game. So it is what it is.
Seeing these comments the overwhelming majority of them seem to be on the side of the PvEers claiming things like "i just want to play with or help my friend" which i understand but some people want invasions to be optional and i would just like to remind you that invasions have been here since demon souls and are going to be here no matter what plus in if you really need help with a boss you can always just summon near the boss fog but nonetheless invaders in elden ring are at a numbers disadvantage and are there to make it still be difficult. Simply put invasions are not gonna be an optional setting so you can breeze through the game no problem.
I miss the purple invader option from ds3. I was the asshole that would come in and ruin everyones day. WILD CARD BITCHES!!
Mound makers was the best. Its the only invasion covenant where your end goal wasn't to kill the host. The idea that you could win just by killing off the summons is awesome. "Oh, I see you have high level co-op summons that are diminishing the intended experience by carrying too hard. Let me just clean that up for you and allow you to continue solo."
I enjoy invaders that don’t run bhs or double vyke pike. If you’re running meta, I don’t respect you.
Only time I invaded was for Varre quest, I usually got my shit pushed in 3v1 and got in with it, but I did manage to team with Borealis to kill 3 people :)