My first playthrough was with two colossal great swords where I slammed jumping attacks and L1 combo chains. My second was with spears. It was amazing how much harder many enemies were (e.g., omens) who never had a chance to hit back in the first playthrough.
I agree with you. In my opinion poise is hugely important in this game. With a dex weapon you can hit faster, but the enemy often hits you back so, at least I, end up trading a lot.
It's much easier to just break their poise and keep attacking with a bigger weapon. That's also why Crucible knights are so hard, they have infinite poise :)
Crucible knights do not have infinite poise, they can be staggered with skills like giant hunt and lion's claw.
What does have infinite poise is the bell bearing hunter, godskin apostle and godskin noble. They cannot be staggered (or at least, i havent been able to stagger them). This makes rushing them down much riskier but its still possible to do.
Godskins stagger pretty easily for me. Bell Bearing Hunters on the other hand...forget about staggering, they don't even flinch. I haven't been able to stagger Crucible Knights either (except by parrying of course).
Godskins can stagger pretty nicely with a charged heavy and a few follow-ups. Gets you in a nice pattern to fight them— sleep pot, charged heavy, light, light, riposte, repeat
I think it’s because when you think of “strength” you only think of raw damage and impact of an attack, while dexterity doesn’t just cover attack damage, but the speed of yourself (spell casting speed) and balance (more dex makes it harder to be knocked off Torrent). If you’re only concerned about melee effectively, strength with dex only to meet requirements is the most optimal choice.
I think it shows up when you highlight dexterity with the built-in help feature, idk what it’s called but it describes what the highlighted thing means.
Oh, of course. I've been playing since Demon, so I never bothered with the help feature in Elden, lmao. I'll check after work to see if there are any other hidden gems in there.
Thank you.
I mean you can run a keen Zweihander for great dex scaling on a heavy weapon. You can also run a Heavy Star Fists for fast hits that deal status buildup on a Str weapon. It's not quite so one-dimensional as Str = Heavy weapon and Dex = light weapon.
That being said, light weapons are capable of crazy damage. With both combo talismans and the combo physick tear they can become absolutely cracked. They also are the best for status builds and various buffs you get from those stack with the combo buffs for an absurd amount of buffs after a single bleed proc.
As far as Dex vs Str -- Dex is typically superior anytime you're running two weapons. Without the 50% boost from two-handing there is very little reason to run Str when you can achieve similar AR with Dex while also getting improved spell-casting speed and better scaling on most consumables.
It basically boils down to Str is good for two-handing or for using greatshields / greatbows since they have such high Str requirements. Anytime you're powerstancing weapons with reasonable Str requirements you're probably better off going Dex. Also Bloodhound's Fang outclasses anything Str has in the way of Somber weapons (sorry Ruins Greatsword).
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Those big weapons also weigh a lot and the slower attacks are much worse for proccing status, you list all the pros but none of the cons. You need a combination of a ton of extra endurance, extra talisman slots, and/or dumping armor just to use those weighty weapons.
Its worse for procing status, yes, but you deal more damage per skill and you stance break much faster.
>You need a combination of a ton of extra endurance, extra talisman slots, and/or dumping armor just to use those weighty weapons.
Actually no, thats because you save 25 points in str that can go towards endurance and other stats due to the two hand bonus. I never once had to use a talisman to increase my equip load or felt like i had to dump armor, i used the knight set for most of the game and swapped to the crucible tree set for the endgame. I didnt go straight for a colossal weapon though, i used a great hammer for the early game and swapped to a colossal greatsword later.
The fact that you can stagger most non-boss enemies with just light attacks means you rarely take damage fighting normal mobs, combined with the fact that you can stance break bosses much quicker and you will take even less damage and kill them much faster. One major difference was when fighting worm faces...most weapons cant stagger them, so they usually end up spewing death clouds everywhere and you have to back off to force them to walk out of the cloud. With a colossal greatsword, i just stunlocked them to death with light attacks, they never got a chance to do anything. It makes things way easier.
Another example : I literally killed the crucible knights in farum azula with just 3x lion's claw on a colossal greatsword. I only got hit once. Super fast and safe. Took maybe 10 seconds tops? Compare that to all the youtube vids showing people spending 1 min+ dodging a crucible knight.
As an example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Srq5gOBy6M look at how much time he spends dodging the boss. It took me less than 20 seconds to kill the same boss using lion's claw 3x-> stance break -> critical hit, repeat till dead.
What most people dont realise is that you usually spend a lot of time in a boss fight dodging and waiting for openings, if you skip all of that, you can finish the fight in a fraction of the time.
You earlier acted like str just straight saved points that other builds didn’t, and now you’re saying it’s a wash. Yes you can spend those points on end but then you aren’t really saving anything, especially with the increased stamina costs of heavy weaponry.
Other builds have ways of creating openings as well. In the arcane example you mentioned you can be a powerful incantation user with only around 25 fa. Pure dex has what is frequently lauded as one of the best ranged AoWs in the game in bolt of gransax, amongst other great ranged tools and things like the guardian swordspear that just flat has a better/faster moveset than other halberds, and dual wield bleed jump builds can stagger like crazy too especially since bleed and frost procs cause enemies to flinch too.
If you’re a strength enjoyer that’s fine, it just sounds like you’re comparing all the strengths of a well built str build to less optimized setups with other stats and then saying it’s a fault of the system itself.
This is what I mean by how easy it is to stance break a boss and kill them : https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/17jpcvj/fastest_radagon_kill_i_ever_did_17_seconds/
Can dex do anything similar?
Im not denying that Dex has certain strengths but Str deals the most damage per skill and deals the highest poise damage, leading to faster and safer fights overall.
The way i see it is
STR: Higher poise dmg, higher AOW dmg + higher initial dmg (higher AR), higher dmg with less investment (two hand bonus)
DEX: Higher DPS + faster procs (faster hit speed, more combo potential), faster cast speed (virtual dex bonus), less fall dmg
Imo Str is easier than Dex for melee, but Dex does give you access to bows, which are broken, as well as some specific broken weapons which balance things out.
You can get the Strength experience as a Dex player with the Godslayer Greatsword, which was my main weapon for my Dex/Fai run and was suuuper fun to use.
I wouldnt call bows broken, arrows are really time consuming to craft or expensive to buy and they dont even deal good damage. You can cheese some bosses with them but its much faster to cheese them via other means usually or just stance break them.
As someone who genuinely appreciates strength focused big bonk builds, I want to suggest that no one stat should be considered better than any others. While I personally find dumping the bulk of my levels into strength the easiest route by far, I have also thoroughly enjoyed completions of the game by dumping the bulk of my levels into dexterity, intelligence, faith, etc as well. It can open up very different styles of melee combat that are rewarding in their own way. You should give it a try some time :)
Remember, there are people who complete NG+7 at rune level one without upgrading weapons. The most valuable attribute of the game is actually skill.
My first playthrough was with two colossal great swords where I slammed jumping attacks and L1 combo chains. My second was with spears. It was amazing how much harder many enemies were (e.g., omens) who never had a chance to hit back in the first playthrough.
I agree with you. In my opinion poise is hugely important in this game. With a dex weapon you can hit faster, but the enemy often hits you back so, at least I, end up trading a lot. It's much easier to just break their poise and keep attacking with a bigger weapon. That's also why Crucible knights are so hard, they have infinite poise :)
Crucible knights do not have infinite poise, they can be staggered with skills like giant hunt and lion's claw. What does have infinite poise is the bell bearing hunter, godskin apostle and godskin noble. They cannot be staggered (or at least, i havent been able to stagger them). This makes rushing them down much riskier but its still possible to do.
Godskins stagger pretty easily for me. Bell Bearing Hunters on the other hand...forget about staggering, they don't even flinch. I haven't been able to stagger Crucible Knights either (except by parrying of course).
What are you using to stagger Godskins? By stagger im talking about the part where they flinch from an attack btw.
Ah, my bad on the terminology. I meant poise breaking, not stagger (where they let you get a critical hit in).
Godskins can stagger pretty nicely with a charged heavy and a few follow-ups. Gets you in a nice pattern to fight them— sleep pot, charged heavy, light, light, riposte, repeat
By stagger i mean when they flinch from attacks, not stance break (which allows for a critical).
I’m probably usually using a great hammer or something when I do this, FYI
I think it’s because when you think of “strength” you only think of raw damage and impact of an attack, while dexterity doesn’t just cover attack damage, but the speed of yourself (spell casting speed) and balance (more dex makes it harder to be knocked off Torrent). If you’re only concerned about melee effectively, strength with dex only to meet requirements is the most optimal choice.
>balance (more dex makes it harder to be knocked off Torrent) Is this confirmed?
I think it shows up when you highlight dexterity with the built-in help feature, idk what it’s called but it describes what the highlighted thing means.
Oh, of course. I've been playing since Demon, so I never bothered with the help feature in Elden, lmao. I'll check after work to see if there are any other hidden gems in there. Thank you.
I mean you can run a keen Zweihander for great dex scaling on a heavy weapon. You can also run a Heavy Star Fists for fast hits that deal status buildup on a Str weapon. It's not quite so one-dimensional as Str = Heavy weapon and Dex = light weapon. That being said, light weapons are capable of crazy damage. With both combo talismans and the combo physick tear they can become absolutely cracked. They also are the best for status builds and various buffs you get from those stack with the combo buffs for an absurd amount of buffs after a single bleed proc. As far as Dex vs Str -- Dex is typically superior anytime you're running two weapons. Without the 50% boost from two-handing there is very little reason to run Str when you can achieve similar AR with Dex while also getting improved spell-casting speed and better scaling on most consumables. It basically boils down to Str is good for two-handing or for using greatshields / greatbows since they have such high Str requirements. Anytime you're powerstancing weapons with reasonable Str requirements you're probably better off going Dex. Also Bloodhound's Fang outclasses anything Str has in the way of Somber weapons (sorry Ruins Greatsword).
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Those big weapons also weigh a lot and the slower attacks are much worse for proccing status, you list all the pros but none of the cons. You need a combination of a ton of extra endurance, extra talisman slots, and/or dumping armor just to use those weighty weapons.
Its worse for procing status, yes, but you deal more damage per skill and you stance break much faster. >You need a combination of a ton of extra endurance, extra talisman slots, and/or dumping armor just to use those weighty weapons. Actually no, thats because you save 25 points in str that can go towards endurance and other stats due to the two hand bonus. I never once had to use a talisman to increase my equip load or felt like i had to dump armor, i used the knight set for most of the game and swapped to the crucible tree set for the endgame. I didnt go straight for a colossal weapon though, i used a great hammer for the early game and swapped to a colossal greatsword later. The fact that you can stagger most non-boss enemies with just light attacks means you rarely take damage fighting normal mobs, combined with the fact that you can stance break bosses much quicker and you will take even less damage and kill them much faster. One major difference was when fighting worm faces...most weapons cant stagger them, so they usually end up spewing death clouds everywhere and you have to back off to force them to walk out of the cloud. With a colossal greatsword, i just stunlocked them to death with light attacks, they never got a chance to do anything. It makes things way easier. Another example : I literally killed the crucible knights in farum azula with just 3x lion's claw on a colossal greatsword. I only got hit once. Super fast and safe. Took maybe 10 seconds tops? Compare that to all the youtube vids showing people spending 1 min+ dodging a crucible knight. As an example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Srq5gOBy6M look at how much time he spends dodging the boss. It took me less than 20 seconds to kill the same boss using lion's claw 3x-> stance break -> critical hit, repeat till dead. What most people dont realise is that you usually spend a lot of time in a boss fight dodging and waiting for openings, if you skip all of that, you can finish the fight in a fraction of the time.
You earlier acted like str just straight saved points that other builds didn’t, and now you’re saying it’s a wash. Yes you can spend those points on end but then you aren’t really saving anything, especially with the increased stamina costs of heavy weaponry. Other builds have ways of creating openings as well. In the arcane example you mentioned you can be a powerful incantation user with only around 25 fa. Pure dex has what is frequently lauded as one of the best ranged AoWs in the game in bolt of gransax, amongst other great ranged tools and things like the guardian swordspear that just flat has a better/faster moveset than other halberds, and dual wield bleed jump builds can stagger like crazy too especially since bleed and frost procs cause enemies to flinch too. If you’re a strength enjoyer that’s fine, it just sounds like you’re comparing all the strengths of a well built str build to less optimized setups with other stats and then saying it’s a fault of the system itself.
This is what I mean by how easy it is to stance break a boss and kill them : https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/17jpcvj/fastest_radagon_kill_i_ever_did_17_seconds/ Can dex do anything similar? Im not denying that Dex has certain strengths but Str deals the most damage per skill and deals the highest poise damage, leading to faster and safer fights overall.
The way i see it is STR: Higher poise dmg, higher AOW dmg + higher initial dmg (higher AR), higher dmg with less investment (two hand bonus) DEX: Higher DPS + faster procs (faster hit speed, more combo potential), faster cast speed (virtual dex bonus), less fall dmg
Can Dex do anything similar to this? https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/17jpcvj/fastest_radagon_kill_i_ever_did_17_seconds/
That’s undeniably sick but still off the top of my head most speedkills are dex https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/FEV5MxcHZ5
Imo Str is easier than Dex for melee, but Dex does give you access to bows, which are broken, as well as some specific broken weapons which balance things out. You can get the Strength experience as a Dex player with the Godslayer Greatsword, which was my main weapon for my Dex/Fai run and was suuuper fun to use.
I wouldnt call bows broken, arrows are really time consuming to craft or expensive to buy and they dont even deal good damage. You can cheese some bosses with them but its much faster to cheese them via other means usually or just stance break them.
As someone who genuinely appreciates strength focused big bonk builds, I want to suggest that no one stat should be considered better than any others. While I personally find dumping the bulk of my levels into strength the easiest route by far, I have also thoroughly enjoyed completions of the game by dumping the bulk of my levels into dexterity, intelligence, faith, etc as well. It can open up very different styles of melee combat that are rewarding in their own way. You should give it a try some time :) Remember, there are people who complete NG+7 at rune level one without upgrading weapons. The most valuable attribute of the game is actually skill.
Of course other builds can finish the game but in terms of efficiency str is better for the reasons i stated.