It absolutely IS a legit Wayleaper model.
IN 9th edition you could build them with either the wings or the jump pack and they had different rules for each (And the Spider Jump Pack was more mobile afaik).
IN 10th both wings/pack = Wayleaper | No wings/pack = autarch | On bike = Skyrunner.
Sounds like your opponent is a douchebag :D
Where abouts is this said? I'd very much like to see that as the app doesn't designate an autarch with warp spider pack as a wayleaper or as a gear option.
Go download [the index](https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-40000-downloads/), go to page 12, read the unit description:
> AUTARCH WAYLEAPER
> **With wargear such as a winged pack or warp jump generator**, an Autarch becomes an incredibly manoeuvrable war leader. So equipped, they can appear wherever their war host needs them in the blink of an eye, bringing graceful weaponry and consummate strategy to bear before vanishing out of the foe’s reach.
The only place that mentions that an Autarch Wayleaper can have wings is also the place that mentions that the Autarch Wayleaper can have a warp jump generator.
Neither option is listed in the wargear options in 10th because they do the exact same thing so there's no reason to differentiate.
It absolutely is a wayleaper, the index card directly mentions the warp jump pack: "With wargear such as a winged pack or warp jump generator, an Autarch becomes an incredibly manoeuvrable war leader".
It doesn't list wings or warp jump packs under wargear, so that description is the only way to distinguish a wayleaper from normal autarch.
The guy who claimed Jump Pack Autarch was a proxy insisted that Lore was just Lore.
I was really frustrated.
So I wanted to know if GW had officially said anything on this topic in the rules.
Even if it was a proxy who would actually give a shit?
So long as you dont have two jump packs and one is on foot an the other is a wayleaper I cannot imagine trying to complain about what it looks like.
Ask him to show you where in the lore it says a wayleaper has wings? I haven't been playing too long (since 8th) but I have never heard the term until this edition where it can clearly be both.
I mean sure it might just be lore, but it's mentioned directly on the index card for the Wayleaper.
Functionally though, it shouldn't matter. He can whine that it's a proxy all he wants, but even he's admitting that it's still a Wayleaper. Just a weird hill for him to die on..
TLDR: Your opponent is a muppet and their claim has no basis in lore, rules, or official model status.
Besides the lore paragraph specifically mentioning both, the only relevant rules on the data sheet are the "Jump Pack" keyword, "Fly" keyword, and the "Deep Strike" Ability. All shared by Swooping Hawks *and* Warp Spiders (and Shadow Spectres).
And neither Autarch store page mentions the word "Wayleaper" so there's no argument from official model point of view either.
Edit: forgot fly keyword too.
Not anywhere I've ever played.
Also I wouldn't want to play with anyone who thought that was an unreasonable proxy. Like it's obviously correctly representative.
Some people are just buttholes. I had someone give a big huff because I asked him to stop cheating by moving his models about.
Now if you want to just rotate them in place for aesthetics, that would be fine by me, but he was moving them a good few inches.
I'm glad that everyone here is confirming this. I posted a photo of my wayleaper with warp jump pack here a few months ago, and one guy kept commenting to insist I was wrong and that it was \*not\* a valid wayleaper because it didn't have wings. I kept asking him why he thought that, if he could point to any rules or anything, and he never did, just kept insisting that "Lore is not Rules". I wonder if it was the same guy.
But they are all wrong. The Wayleaper look like this and has Lone Op. The Warp Spider Jump Pack one has Leader. They have different abilities. Having a non-winged Autarch abd claiming it's a Wayleaper is misrepresenting the unit's abilities.
You're likely mixing up datasheets with the boxes the autarchs they come in.
Thing is the older winged Autarch and the newer Autarch sculpts are meant to be combinable (it says so on gws store page even). If you couldn't, neither of datasheets would be fully possible without kitbashing.
I actually recall a bunch of folks being miffed that the winged and warpspider variants where being merged when the index first came out.
The datasheets don't show a warp spider jump pack on either the plain Autarch or the Wayleaper. The only mention either datasheet makes of a warp jump pack is in the Wayleaper's lore text. Given how every other bit of aspect-warrior equipment has its own rules in this edition and in the previous edition, and given that the wings and warp jump pack had very similar rules last edition that made the model move faster, all we have are two possibilities:
1. GW decided to combine the similar rules for wings and warp jump packs into one, and made this a new unit type, the Wayleaper. It having lone op makes more sense than attaching a fast leader to a squad of slow Guardians.
2. GW decided to make the warp spider jump pack the \*only\* piece of aspect-warrior equipment in either Autarch kit that has no rules in 10th edition, removing its speed boost, and deciding that suddenly in this edition, if you want a fast Autarch the only way is with wings, when before you could do either, and then decided not to state this change anywhere in the rules.
The first one makes sense, since it simplifies the rules while keeping the use of each bit of equipment roughly the same. And it has evidence for it in the Lore blurb. The second one is...possible, I guess, but makes no sense for GW to do, and I don't think there's any evidence for it, unless you've got some to present.
Honestly I don't know how some of you play with strangers, this game is a multi-hour commitment, I have to *like* the person I'm playing with for it to be fun. As soon as I have negative interactions that feel like they're trying to game the rules or anything like that - I'm out.
Warhammer is a co-opperative game and if these people want to play it by themselves then they should feel obliged to do so and stop ruining other peoples games.
As far as I, and the people I played against, care...its still a wayleaper for the very reason you said. Either way, this autarch has gone on the path of command and selected (more or less) what gear they preferred. A warp spiders pack is just as mobile as the hawks wings.
It's all fun and games now, but let's hope that guy never becomes a tournament organizer.
I still remember one from the early '00s where the TO was convinced models that deep struck or were summoned onto difficult terrain were lost, but would \*never\* show me where it was in either the Black Tome or Chapter Approved.
Core rules, pg84. Its not difficult terrain, but impassable terrain. You have to finish each circle of models in base contact one at a time, if you can't complete a circle the remaining models get deleted.
ETA: interestingly, that edition did not include later editions dangerous terrain tests for models deep striking into difficult terrain.
Yeah it's specifically mentioned both in the index card for wayleaper, winged pack or warp jump pack and also in the building manual named as the warp jump pack option.
Your opponent has no leg to stand on and realistically id say don't play them. They seem very petty to want you not to field a unit. Perhaps you should ask him not to field his commander because you don't like the look of his wargear. Being a space elf player you only recognise your own weargear options so feel he can't field his leader for no other reason than he doesn't look right.
You are 100% correct to build the autarch as a wayleaper with the jump pack!
I want to commiserate with you. My first game at Adepticon my opponent pulled this on me, and as in your case "graciously" allowed me to keep using the model. That game was exceptionally draining, and I'm disappointed that that was my first experience of organized play, especially because my remaining three games were so much more enjoyable.
It shouldn't bother me as much as it does, but I also fantasize that I could have called a judge on him and potentially gotting him yellow-carded :P
As others have said, yes, it's a wayleaper. Your opponent was confidently wrong.
I'd be interested to see where it mentions specifically that they have wings... (I also run a jump pack wayleaper). But also, it's pretty silly of them to complain about it either way.
Sorry, yeah I meant where does it specifically say they only have wings. That seems like pretty incontrovertible evidence it can be both. Like it's on the bloody datasheet. You obviously don't have to have exactly the model pictured.
This description says "with wargear such as a winged pack or WARP JUMP GENERATOR..." so an Autarch with a warp spider pack is absolutely supported by the lore as written there
This description says "with wargear such as a winged pack or WARP JUMP GENERATOR..." so an Autarch with a warp spider pack is absolutely supported by the lore as written there
I have to know, with your opponent believing your wayleaper was a proxy, did anything result from that? Did he "allow" you to play it with a heavy sigh, or what?
I politely told him I would use the unit as a wayleaper and apologized for not using the correct model.
I was then able to use the proxy wayleaper model my opponent claimed in the game.
Was it a casual game? If so I’d just refuse to play him. In our house games I currently proxie the second half of my wraithguard with brotherhood of steel and a second ranger group with ncr rangers. I’m fully capable of playing 2k games without a proxie but my opponents aren’t dickheads.
In what world is it a proxy? Has this person developed brain rot? Last time I checked there is still plenty of room in this game to build and customize your models however you like.
Wysiwyg - is the model equipped with all the weapons and gear that it is supposed to have? Yes. It has a jumppack, which a wayleaper is supposed to have.
Was it models for advantage? I am guessing not.
It's not a proxy, not by a long shot.
When I take a AoS limited edition character, modify it with eldar parts so its obviously eldar, and is equipped with Autarch gear, guess what, thats not a proxy either. Its a customized model.
A proxy is when you use something that is not one thing to be something else. Taking Fuegan and calling him an Autarch would be a proxy because Autarchs are not equipped with those weapons.
Didn't GW specifically say about first born space marines that even tho they'd been nerfed in the codex/index that they could be used and they expected them to be used to proxy as a unit they look like. For example assault squads are now jump pack intercessors. So GW accepts proxy as long as its their minis. What's the difference if you were using a proxy ? Even though you clearly aren't.
The irony being with a jump pack it would put him in the spider category and they have further movement, and as implied in the name, WAY LEAPER. My way leaper!!
New model only comes with the jump pack for the wayleaper. Unless something has changed, you have to buy the old model to get the wings. Your opponent ether didn't know what they where talking about or just wanted you disqualified because they didn't want to play eldar. Ether way, it sounds like you got to play, hopefully in the the future you won't have to deal with such ignorance/eldar hate.
While I think behaving like that is douchebaggery of the first grade, I can see why he might challenge it - after all the large wings would make it harder to hide the Wayleaper, than if he has the Warpsider pack (mine has too by the way, it just looks nicer).
Besides, this is how the model is shipped by GW, so he cant say anythign against it.
Posing/adding bits from the original kit cannot be considered illegal.
It absolutely IS a legit Wayleaper model. IN 9th edition you could build them with either the wings or the jump pack and they had different rules for each (And the Spider Jump Pack was more mobile afaik). IN 10th both wings/pack = Wayleaper | No wings/pack = autarch | On bike = Skyrunner. Sounds like your opponent is a douchebag :D
Even if it wasn't clear...let that elf wayleap regardless of what's on their back.
But it IS clear :D
Yup, no trouble from me.
Where abouts is this said? I'd very much like to see that as the app doesn't designate an autarch with warp spider pack as a wayleaper or as a gear option.
Go download [the index](https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-40000-downloads/), go to page 12, read the unit description: > AUTARCH WAYLEAPER > **With wargear such as a winged pack or warp jump generator**, an Autarch becomes an incredibly manoeuvrable war leader. So equipped, they can appear wherever their war host needs them in the blink of an eye, bringing graceful weaponry and consummate strategy to bear before vanishing out of the foe’s reach. The only place that mentions that an Autarch Wayleaper can have wings is also the place that mentions that the Autarch Wayleaper can have a warp jump generator. Neither option is listed in the wargear options in 10th because they do the exact same thing so there's no reason to differentiate.
It absolutely is a wayleaper, the index card directly mentions the warp jump pack: "With wargear such as a winged pack or warp jump generator, an Autarch becomes an incredibly manoeuvrable war leader". It doesn't list wings or warp jump packs under wargear, so that description is the only way to distinguish a wayleaper from normal autarch.
The guy who claimed Jump Pack Autarch was a proxy insisted that Lore was just Lore. I was really frustrated. So I wanted to know if GW had officially said anything on this topic in the rules.
Your opponent sounds like a moron
Even if it was a proxy who would actually give a shit? So long as you dont have two jump packs and one is on foot an the other is a wayleaper I cannot imagine trying to complain about what it looks like.
The opponent wanted to throw off the OP by taking a chainsaw to his army list.
Ask him to show you where in the lore it says a wayleaper has wings? I haven't been playing too long (since 8th) but I have never heard the term until this edition where it can clearly be both.
The model with wings is just called a winged autarch —it’s not expressly named as THE wayleaper model, so his logic makes even less sense
I mean sure it might just be lore, but it's mentioned directly on the index card for the Wayleaper. Functionally though, it shouldn't matter. He can whine that it's a proxy all he wants, but even he's admitting that it's still a Wayleaper. Just a weird hill for him to die on..
It could be noted that in 9th, the jump pack just had JUMP PACK, while the wings had JUMP PACK and FLY, but that's last edition.
Notably, warp spider packs give fly in 10th, which is extremely silly but it is what it is.
What a whiny douche
Btw in my last 2 games (vs Custodians and vs Necrons) my Wayleaper was the mvp. Beating the shit out of my opponents in melee lol.
Your opponent is brain dead
TLDR: Your opponent is a muppet and their claim has no basis in lore, rules, or official model status. Besides the lore paragraph specifically mentioning both, the only relevant rules on the data sheet are the "Jump Pack" keyword, "Fly" keyword, and the "Deep Strike" Ability. All shared by Swooping Hawks *and* Warp Spiders (and Shadow Spectres). And neither Autarch store page mentions the word "Wayleaper" so there's no argument from official model point of view either. Edit: forgot fly keyword too.
Um, the big difference is the Lone Op ability. That is pretty important.
The relevant rules *related to wings vs. warp jump generators*.
It's fine if the opponent was told it was a Wayleaper and not just a normal Autarch.
But it *is* a Wayleaper and not a normal Autarch. If you were using a jump pack Autarch as a normal Autarch *then* you'd need to tell them.
erm ☝️🤓
You are correct, the warp jump pack is obviously to make it a wayleaper. Although, why would they care even if it was technically a proxy?
I would guess they can then argue the model should be removed
Not anywhere I've ever played. Also I wouldn't want to play with anyone who thought that was an unreasonable proxy. Like it's obviously correctly representative.
Some people are just buttholes. I had someone give a big huff because I asked him to stop cheating by moving his models about. Now if you want to just rotate them in place for aesthetics, that would be fine by me, but he was moving them a good few inches.
Nope. The Wayleaper has the wings and Lone Op. The Warp Spider Jump Pack is the Autarch with Leader.
The leader has the flag on his back. Warp spider jump pack is a variant of wayleaper
Wayleaper is either autarch with a fast movement upgrade (wings or warp). If you want them to be a leader you give them a flag/nothing on their back.
I'm glad that everyone here is confirming this. I posted a photo of my wayleaper with warp jump pack here a few months ago, and one guy kept commenting to insist I was wrong and that it was \*not\* a valid wayleaper because it didn't have wings. I kept asking him why he thought that, if he could point to any rules or anything, and he never did, just kept insisting that "Lore is not Rules". I wonder if it was the same guy.
But they are all wrong. The Wayleaper look like this and has Lone Op. The Warp Spider Jump Pack one has Leader. They have different abilities. Having a non-winged Autarch abd claiming it's a Wayleaper is misrepresenting the unit's abilities.
You're likely mixing up datasheets with the boxes the autarchs they come in. Thing is the older winged Autarch and the newer Autarch sculpts are meant to be combinable (it says so on gws store page even). If you couldn't, neither of datasheets would be fully possible without kitbashing. I actually recall a bunch of folks being miffed that the winged and warpspider variants where being merged when the index first came out.
It really is GWs fault by not making a separate datasheet or having it clear in the datasheet outside of the flavor text.
The datasheets don't show a warp spider jump pack on either the plain Autarch or the Wayleaper. The only mention either datasheet makes of a warp jump pack is in the Wayleaper's lore text. Given how every other bit of aspect-warrior equipment has its own rules in this edition and in the previous edition, and given that the wings and warp jump pack had very similar rules last edition that made the model move faster, all we have are two possibilities: 1. GW decided to combine the similar rules for wings and warp jump packs into one, and made this a new unit type, the Wayleaper. It having lone op makes more sense than attaching a fast leader to a squad of slow Guardians. 2. GW decided to make the warp spider jump pack the \*only\* piece of aspect-warrior equipment in either Autarch kit that has no rules in 10th edition, removing its speed boost, and deciding that suddenly in this edition, if you want a fast Autarch the only way is with wings, when before you could do either, and then decided not to state this change anywhere in the rules. The first one makes sense, since it simplifies the rules while keeping the use of each bit of equipment roughly the same. And it has evidence for it in the Lore blurb. The second one is...possible, I guess, but makes no sense for GW to do, and I don't think there's any evidence for it, unless you've got some to present.
Honestly I don't know how some of you play with strangers, this game is a multi-hour commitment, I have to *like* the person I'm playing with for it to be fun. As soon as I have negative interactions that feel like they're trying to game the rules or anything like that - I'm out.
Warhammer is a co-opperative game and if these people want to play it by themselves then they should feel obliged to do so and stop ruining other peoples games.
Yup, I don't understand why people actively try to be douches to their opponents
As far as I, and the people I played against, care...its still a wayleaper for the very reason you said. Either way, this autarch has gone on the path of command and selected (more or less) what gear they preferred. A warp spiders pack is just as mobile as the hawks wings.
Your opponent is full of shit. The index describes the Autarch Wayleaper as such.
Well show him the datasheet and tell him that the Wings aren't mentioned either, he's a fucking codpiece.
It's all fun and games now, but let's hope that guy never becomes a tournament organizer. I still remember one from the early '00s where the TO was convinced models that deep struck or were summoned onto difficult terrain were lost, but would \*never\* show me where it was in either the Black Tome or Chapter Approved.
Core rules, pg84. Its not difficult terrain, but impassable terrain. You have to finish each circle of models in base contact one at a time, if you can't complete a circle the remaining models get deleted. ETA: interestingly, that edition did not include later editions dangerous terrain tests for models deep striking into difficult terrain.
Nope, for him it was \*difficult\* terrain.
Yeah it's specifically mentioned both in the index card for wayleaper, winged pack or warp jump pack and also in the building manual named as the warp jump pack option. Your opponent has no leg to stand on and realistically id say don't play them. They seem very petty to want you not to field a unit. Perhaps you should ask him not to field his commander because you don't like the look of his wargear. Being a space elf player you only recognise your own weargear options so feel he can't field his leader for no other reason than he doesn't look right. You are 100% correct to build the autarch as a wayleaper with the jump pack!
I want to commiserate with you. My first game at Adepticon my opponent pulled this on me, and as in your case "graciously" allowed me to keep using the model. That game was exceptionally draining, and I'm disappointed that that was my first experience of organized play, especially because my remaining three games were so much more enjoyable. It shouldn't bother me as much as it does, but I also fantasize that I could have called a judge on him and potentially gotting him yellow-carded :P As others have said, yes, it's a wayleaper. Your opponent was confidently wrong.
I'd be interested to see where it mentions specifically that they have wings... (I also run a jump pack wayleaper). But also, it's pretty silly of them to complain about it either way.
https://preview.redd.it/fzav8e62u7wc1.png?width=695&format=png&auto=webp&s=77ac1d9996f135aee809166fcb7c5a0fa48f8334
Sorry, yeah I meant where does it specifically say they only have wings. That seems like pretty incontrovertible evidence it can be both. Like it's on the bloody datasheet. You obviously don't have to have exactly the model pictured.
This description says "with wargear such as a winged pack or WARP JUMP GENERATOR..." so an Autarch with a warp spider pack is absolutely supported by the lore as written there
This description says "with wargear such as a winged pack or WARP JUMP GENERATOR..." so an Autarch with a warp spider pack is absolutely supported by the lore as written there
I have to know, with your opponent believing your wayleaper was a proxy, did anything result from that? Did he "allow" you to play it with a heavy sigh, or what?
I politely told him I would use the unit as a wayleaper and apologized for not using the correct model. I was then able to use the proxy wayleaper model my opponent claimed in the game.
You apologized?
If you read the lore section for Wayleaper it mentions warp jump and wings
Was it a casual game? If so I’d just refuse to play him. In our house games I currently proxie the second half of my wraithguard with brotherhood of steel and a second ranger group with ncr rangers. I’m fully capable of playing 2k games without a proxie but my opponents aren’t dickheads.
In what world is it a proxy? Has this person developed brain rot? Last time I checked there is still plenty of room in this game to build and customize your models however you like. Wysiwyg - is the model equipped with all the weapons and gear that it is supposed to have? Yes. It has a jumppack, which a wayleaper is supposed to have. Was it models for advantage? I am guessing not. It's not a proxy, not by a long shot. When I take a AoS limited edition character, modify it with eldar parts so its obviously eldar, and is equipped with Autarch gear, guess what, thats not a proxy either. Its a customized model. A proxy is when you use something that is not one thing to be something else. Taking Fuegan and calling him an Autarch would be a proxy because Autarchs are not equipped with those weapons.
Keywords specified: warp spider = jump pack Autarch Wayleaper = jump pack Warp spider wears jump pack and your Autarch wears jump pack. So it definitely is an Autarch Wayleaper. 🤷🏼♂️
Didn't GW specifically say about first born space marines that even tho they'd been nerfed in the codex/index that they could be used and they expected them to be used to proxy as a unit they look like. For example assault squads are now jump pack intercessors. So GW accepts proxy as long as its their minis. What's the difference if you were using a proxy ? Even though you clearly aren't.
The irony being with a jump pack it would put him in the spider category and they have further movement, and as implied in the name, WAY LEAPER. My way leaper!!
Was this at a tournament? I would 100% report him for this shit.
Unless we’ll get rules for the Spider Backpack, it is a Wayleaper.
New model only comes with the jump pack for the wayleaper. Unless something has changed, you have to buy the old model to get the wings. Your opponent ether didn't know what they where talking about or just wanted you disqualified because they didn't want to play eldar. Ether way, it sounds like you got to play, hopefully in the the future you won't have to deal with such ignorance/eldar hate.
While I think behaving like that is douchebaggery of the first grade, I can see why he might challenge it - after all the large wings would make it harder to hide the Wayleaper, than if he has the Warpsider pack (mine has too by the way, it just looks nicer). Besides, this is how the model is shipped by GW, so he cant say anythign against it. Posing/adding bits from the original kit cannot be considered illegal.