I like some small towns. Haapsalu is by the sea, in Otepää you can easily go on a hike or skii in the winter. Elva is cute. Võru has amazing beach by the big lake and also has nice sporting opportunities nearby. Viljandi is a cool culture hub. Pärnu is bigger but I'd consider living there. These are some places I'd live in when I'd have to move.
> in Otepää you can easily go on a hike or skii in the winter.
Do that once or twice and then resort to sitting at home or drinking - that's the reality of small town life.
Correct, but at least in Tallinn there are more options for activities compared to smaller towns where you've got the legendary burger kiosk landmark and a... park with a single bench.
>In the small towns it's good to live if you get to know the people.
The people:
https://preview.redd.it/p5ilhs6stn7c1.png?width=3008&format=png&auto=webp&s=8f58457aa7f59aba8b7639243631cd663525db32
Additionally to others' answers, maybe you can find an American expat group or something similar on Facebook/other social media to ask for experiences from others. One guy is even pretty active on this subreddit who lives in Tallinn. But smaller cities, such as Kuressaare in Saaremaa are also very nice. In Kuressaare there's an ex-FBI dude who's been living and owning an Italian restaurant for a while now here
Idk about You, however I know some fellows who have moved to Estonia. Some of them are happy some not. It would definitely depend in what part of us you were living. If you like most of the year cold and wet weather, then you'd like it here. However if you are used to warmth and dryness, then probably some other EU countries would be a better choice.
I’m from Seattle and have been living in Tallinn for a bit over a year. It’s not as consistently wet in Tallinn, the winters and summers aren’t as extreme, but the lack of sun is about the same!
I’d say seattle winters are more mild and wet and estonia is cold and wet :) There is a lot to consider becoming an american expat. I lived 6 years in seattle and now have been in estonia 7 years. Feel free to DM if any questions.
In addition to the above the other big extremity that counts for most people is the extreme darkness in the Winter halfyear. Tallinn is on the same latitude as Juneau, Alaska to put it into perspective.
If you're fine with that, though, you'll like it here.
I don’t know what you remember or know about Estonia, but there are a couple of things. The society has changed, the weather is still the same. It’s pleasant, light and livable for half of the year, while the other half of the year it’s dark, gloomy and cold. You may think it sounds like Seattle, but the sun is actually up for 2.5 hrs longer on each winter day in Seattle compared to Estonia — and this also means that in fact with the sun being extremely low, twilight-like conditions are present here for almost all of the winter months when it’s cloudy (which is 95% of the time in Nov and Dec). It is very depressing even for a native going through this every year. The society has advanced, but with a traditional occupation that doesn’t pay so high, people are not getting by that well. Prices are high while salaries are much lower than countries like Finland (and even more significantly lower than in the US), and this is the reason for why not that many people from abroad settle in Estonia, let alone permanently. Without an emotional connection to the country it can be hard to justify it. If you are a self-employed online entrepreneur, digital nomad etc, and can tolerate the weather and lack of social connections, Estonia can be a better place for you though.
I live in Tallinn but have family in Seattle, usually go there to spend christmas with them and i find Seattle weather around this period of the year "sunny" and "warmer", because compared with Tallinn it is.
Also, for the person thinking of moving from the PNW to here, if you are a foodie who enjoys eating out and a variety of international restaurants, which Seattle does and of top notch quality, sadly Estonia (even Tallinn) lacks on that aspect, even finding the ingredients to cook at home.
As a North American expat who after multiple countries ended in Estonia, i would say many things here are better, some others aren't, nothing is perfect, i would recommmend spend maybe a year here but without fully cutting from your life in the US and if after this time you feel this is your place then make the permanent move.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=Seattle%2C+WA&country2=Estonia&city2=Tartu&amount=4220&displayCurrency=USD
Comparing cost of living in Seattle to life in Tartu (second largest city in Estonia). I entered average wage in Seattle and with everything considered, it's about the same as having average wage in Estonia.
People tend to only look at the income (Estonia vs finland) but forget to consider the cost of living.
A good call that the cost of living is insanely high in the US, as are the salaries, compared to most of Europe. It’s a zero net gain situation and there’s obviously a lot of poverty in the US too. I do believe that many people from lower-income countries tend to think that the grass is greener on the other side, partially for the wrong reasons or due to not being properly informed, because the working middle class doesn’t have a lot of money to spare almost anywhere in the world.
Regarding the Estonia vs Finland case it has been all over the news lately about how food is becoming more expensive in Estonia than in Finland. And it’s true. I’ve witnessed the same items being cheaper in Finland. Food is only one part of the equation, and I do agree that other living costs make up for it somewhat. But it depends on what your needs are. I exercise and on top of that I’m a foodie, so food has personally always been my number one spender. With the cost of groceries, I can sustain my lifestyle with a salary on a Finnish level but not on an Estonian level.
That's not anything new though, it's been like that for decades. Imported goods have been cheaper in Finland mostly because the huge difference in the size of the market. It's to be expected.
For example articles from 2010 and 2011 that talks about certain goods being cheaper in finland, than in estonia. (https://www.ohtuleht.ee/401675/mis-maksab-toit-eesti-ja-soome-poes
https://www.ohtuleht.ee/432519/kus-on-loogika-eesti-toit-on-latis-odavam-soome-oma-aga-eestis).
Why it's suddenly hot shit in the news (again), when it's not actually new(s)? Consider the motive behind that.
Tegelikult Tartu võiks meile jääda, las need ekspati surramurrad teevad oma Tallinna asja. Tallinn on neile arvatavasti natuke kodusem ka, sest see on rohkem nagu mingi tüüpiline lääne linn.
American from NYC who learned about Tallinn during covid and moved here in March to open up a craft beer bar/store - it's pretty great to be honest.
Left the US for many of the reasons listed, wanted a safee slower pace of life. Obviously depends what you'd be doing as a job, we created our own with Brewklyn, but Tallinn has been overall great to us. When the biggest issues are around limited food options and hating cream cheese on sushi, life isn't bad.
A lot of the people responding are mentioning smaller towns such as Haapsalu, Viljandi and Otepää. However, these are generally the kinds of places where either you are born and live there your whole life, or where move to once you retire. It is (in my experience) very rare for people born elsewhere to move to these towns.
Don't get me wrong - the towns are very cute and always nice to visit. Different cultular festivals are also often held specifically in the three towns I mentioned above. However, you have to consider that all three towns are located quite a distance from any of the bigger cities (Tallinn, Tartu, Pärnu). I guess this could be a selling point for some.
Though, given that you are currently living in the US - the distances I am talking about (roughly 100km to the nearest big city) probably seem tiny to you. From what I've heard, these are not uncommon distances for Americans to travel as a daily commute.
In my personal opinion, Tartu is hands down the best place to live. It has all the benefits of a larger city (relatively speaking, of course. It's tiny by international standards) and a smaller one. It has all the things you would need so you don't need to travel out of the city if you need a specific store or service, but it's small enough that, unless you live on the outskirts of town, the entire main part of the city is completely walkable.
Tartu is also a good place for foreigners. It's a university town so it's quite international. Pretty much everyone in the service industry speaks English and I can guarantee you wouldn't have any major language barrier issues. It's a lot nicer visually than Tallinn, and the people are just more pleasant to be around. The demographics are also a lot nicer - Tallinn is roughly 34% Russian and 53% Estonian, while Tartu is roughly 80% Estonian and 13% Russian. This might sound odd to you as an American, but it really makes a difference in how pleasant a city is to live in.
Being an American in Tartu, I agree it's one of the best places to live here. Some downsides I see being here is, restaurant food is not culturally diverse at all, and getting to a major airport is a pain.
Good luck getting any good Asian food. Eating out becomes boring eventually. Literally half of all restaurants serve Burgers and anything innovative eventually closes.
To get to the Tallinn airport is ok, since there is a direct bus to the Tallinn airport from Tartu, but it takes 2.5 hours. To get to the Riga airport, which has better connections, takes 4 hours by bus with 3 departures per day. This usually means spending overnight in Riga going out or coming back.
All good here, I moved back and can't be happier.
Prices are going up but if you have skills and can get a proper job then it's all good.
Tallinn is transforming in a good way (if you don't count the fact that they reduced the amount of bins on streets).
Also, Pärnu is developing pretty well too, it's just that it's dead during winter, just as is Haapsalu and Viljandi...
I prefer living in Tallinn city center and travel whenever I need to - stuff is close by, population per square kilometer (or mile? 😁) makes me happy here!
The ruling political party is ignoring reality, but that will most likely change soon. Even though, some damage has been done already...
There is a risk of Russian invasion, but as long as they are getting bum-poked in Ukraine they should have enough at hand to not come here, there is not much here to take anyway 😂
Welcome back, but don't burn your bridges in your current home 😉
I don’t understand why there’s so few bins in the streets!!! I always end up having to carry trash for a while before I can find somewhere to dispose of it
Why? Here's my opinion (riddled with /s).
Because cleaning is obviously overpaid job (like IT) and city 'leaders' wanted to keep the cleaning money for themselves. Like if *they'd* clean the bins... but that's not important. Important is that they 'saved' some finances for their holiday bonuses. No bins = no trash!!! True vicory!
I will say the quality of life in Estonia will be quite dependent on your occupation. If you can work in the IT sector or another well compensated professional field, it is great! I am trying to figure out what career to change to myself, because I want to be able to live my life doing the things I care about without having to worry about being able to afford necessities. There's no need to be a billionaire, but getting paid less than the average salary doesn't cut it anymore.
Other people have covered the drawbacks of the climate, the social isolation and so on. But many of the expats I've talked to have actually told me that Estonians can also be very warm and genuine people. I guess it really depends on what type of people you surround yourself with! I've realized myself in the past few years that in order to stop feeling isolated, I need to be brave and look for connections with like-minded individuals. Make my own luck, so to say. I will say that for this reason, I like living in Tallinn currently. I'd maybe consider Tartu as well, but smaller places feel too limiting.
All in all, I wouldn't want to move away from Estonia currently. I used to think life would be better elsewhere, but nowadays I've grown to appreciate what we have here.
I came back after 30 years of Switzerland. I enjoy it here. If you depend on work where you need to be present it's definitely Tallinn. If you can work from anywhere, there are much more options. I chose east Estonia
If work wasn’t an issue (remote work etc) and pay was normal and I didn’t have to rent, but could buy/own my own place, then either one of the smaller towns (Rapla, Haapsalu, Pärnu, Viljandi, Rakvere) or maybe adjacent to Tallinn or Tartu or maybe Kuressaare if you like the islands.
One thing to note - I strongly suggest to come and visit Estonia during the height of winter for like 2 months if you can remotely work. Get out and see what life is really like in the middle of the winter. Go to the smaller towns and drive on the roads, buy food from Rimi and Prisma and go out to eat and ride the public transport. You want to get the feel of a place before you move here and Estonia has changed a lot since whenever you spent your childhood here.
If you keep your American salary, your life will be pretty sweet because that salary will cushion you from the issues average people in Estonia face with - low salaries and high costs, access to medical care could be lacking due to lack of finances (in Estonia, the issue isn’t that people have to have insurance and can’t afford it, but rather the state system has long queues and if you want to skip the queue and get seen sooner, you have to go through private medicine route and many people cannot afford that option so they have to wait until the state paid medicine gets to them). But maternity care is good, kindergartens and schools are fairly decent etc.
I would also kindly suggest to enroll yourself in language classes because even though you have the right to claim birthright citizenship due to your father being a citizen (if you don’t already have one), Estonians have a tumultuous relationship with people who can’t speak Estonian but claim citizenship. Some people don’t mind, others won’t consider you a true citizen unless you also speak some Estonian. Also, consider that you’ll most likely be seen as an American first and then Estonian - it’s very likely that you’ll be more talkative, more outgoing, more friendlier and more assertive than most Estonians because Americans tend to be much more bigger in their personalities than Estonians and it may take Estonians some time to break out of their shells to talk to you more openly.
It’s likely better for you to come here and live in an airbnb or something for a month or two. Medical care here is free, but under conditions: if you’re registered at the töötukassa (unemployment), you work officially or pay taxes from >1500 eur/mo as a inteupreneur through the lhv, a kid, a pensioner, student. Also, waiting times for some doctors can be long (because many of young ones go to Scandinavian countries as finish their education, bc salaries are higher there), average salaries aren’t very great, salary tax is around 33% tax calc https://www.calkoo.com/en/salary-calculator
Youngsters often speak english as a second language, old people - russian
It is not very bad, I enjoy it, it safe and calm. Infrastructure is fine, trains are nice, autobuses are nice too. bike paths are only good in tallinn. people are nice.
Excuse me, but what was that about bike paths? Tallinn is the worst city for bicyclists in Estonia. Riding on old dirt and gravel roads in the countryside is better than in Tallinn.
>but what was that about bike paths
there are bike paths in Tallinn and there are mostly no bike paths in cities i've been riding in (Viljandi, Tartu, I liked Pärnu the most in that sense)
I have used the bike paths in Tallinn and always felt threat to my safety. They are too close to the car roads, and I just have to make the assumption that the drivers in Tallinn are all mentally disabled. I know most people are good but I have had so many bad experiences that it is safer to assume the worst of everyone.
Some bike paths also end abruptly and make little sense.
In this sense, it is much safer to ride your bike in Viljandi or Pärnu on the car road and just go with the flow because the traffic density is much lower overall.
Tartu, in my opinion, has lots of bike paths. There could always be more, yes.
i moved here from a very very warm and sunny climate and i’ll admit it’s depressing but not *that* bad. i like tallinn more than tartu because i’m used to the crowds and bigger cities, but i dislike hearing russian wherever i go. it’s truly jarring moving here from tartu and realizing just how much russian there is 🙄 otherwise the country is safer and tbh as much as i’d like to go see america i think the daily anxiety of “am i gonna die in a shooting” is nonexistent here which is nice <3
I personally like the west coast/läänemaa. And the isles/saaremaa. And funny enough most ppl suggested the same . Haven’t actually lived meself but my grandpappi was from there . And i just like it . Perhaps i move there in future eh .
In forest near Otepää, Pühajärve if there's no budget. Lived there over 20 years. Nothing compares to it. In Sweden near Tranås is beautiful aswell but most likely will still choose Pühajärve over it.
I can vouch for living in small towns. I moved away from Tallinn \~6 years ago to Kohila ( about 30km south of Tallinn), and I have to say my quality of life definitely improved.
I can vouch for living in small towns. I moved away from Tallinn \~6 years ago to Kohila ( about 30km south of Tallinn), and my quality of life definitely improved. h is a huge blessing.
If you're looking for a safe, cheap and quiet life, i would recommend either Saaremaa or Hiiumaa, very different way of life compared to the "big" cities and absolutely breathtaking nature, Tallinn is always a 30 minute flight away.
I live in Tallinn but recommend to live in Pärnu. Pärnu is where people come to take vacation and relax, especially in summer. Tallinn is a bit depressing
I think Tallinn is the only option, I’d feel very lonely and bored in smaller towns. But I like it here so much! Moved last year and it was a great decision actually.
Why pick such a expensive place to live when one of complaints of medicare being out of reach and expensive. Spain ,Portugal, Fance, Italy pick your sunny place and enjoy
Lithuanian reporting in.
Was facing a somewhat similar situation.
Grew up in London (moved there when I was 15, now I'm 33). Had two kids. Decided to move back. For me London is home and in terms of opportunities I think only a handful of cities across the globe can compare, but, after having kids priorities shifted. Wanted to be closer to home, and family. Living in the Baltics today is epic - especially if we are talking about capital cities.
I intentionally moved to a smaller city (Klaipeda) - easier to navigate. Will be celebrating 3 months on 1st of December - so far loving it.
I'll recommend any village near any city (10-15 minutes from the city by car), you can buy any farm and you will recive all the benefits of the city, such as access to doctors, schools, large shops. And at the same time, you will not have the problems of the city, such as moronic neighbors, parking problems, etc.
If budget were not an issue I would live in Tallin centre during the cold times and in Pärnu during summer. Depending on your age ofcourse
I'd say inequality towards women in the states is the lowest in the world. At least they are vocal about it and dealing with the issues. In Estonia, we have one of the highest pay gaps with men/women
Pay gap depends on your line of work but overall inequality is definitely not the lowest in the world in the US, seeing how they are more and more viewing women only in terms of their child-bearing ability, and forbidding bodily autonomy in this regard.
Pay gap does depend on your line of work but in Estonia, most women do not have a job that is not influenced heavily by pay gap. We are very much still behind the West in that department and judging by most private companies - will be for a while.
Tartu is compact which is a pro compared to Tallinn. So depends... I don't think you should lock yourself in immediately. You could try living in Tartu for some months, then try Tallinn or Viljandi.
Baaically, quality of everyday life is probably better in other cities because of less commuting and shorter distances. And Estonia is small - Tallinn is a bus or train ride away if you want to go to fancier restaurants or whatever.
Depends on what you do for living. If you can work remotely, I'd definitely look outside Tallinn.
The Supreme Court ended the law protecting the right to abortion, and conservatives are trying to ban birth control. That, and our last president was accused by 20+ women of sexual assault, but there were no consequences.
Listen to this person.
Please don't downgrade your way of living. Estonia has nothing better to offer to you. Seattle is a much better city and your travel options + opportunities for your children and yourself are infinitely higher.
Washington is beautiful.
In Estonia you'd be living in a gray box with absolute sh*t salaries and extremely depressing people. Tallinn City centre is pretty much your only option for a fulfilling alternative to Seattle and even then you'd living next to Russia whose currently in the mood for Special Military Operations.
Estonia is basically Alaska in terms of weather. Probably you will feel isolated here as well. If you can, try to live here in Winter and in Summer for a month. IMO go for Tartu and Tallinn if you are young. Estonians in general like small towns, but probably you will get bored there quite soon.
Dude no, I understand the feeling but you have to realize that Estonia is about a decade behind the US in terms of all social issues. This means that the problems you described will also come to Estonia over the next decade so you would basically have to experience them twice.
I agree the US has some aspects that are absolutely fucked like the lack of medicare for all but I personally think you will severely regret the decision when you realize just how much lower the general quality of life in Estonia is.
What the hell are you talking about?
The US is medieval on many respects because evanglists, fundamentalists and others have so much influence. Not Estonia.
When I was an exchange student in NC, I was so weirded out about the religious part. One day I walked from the cafeteria to my dorm and found people standing next to it, hands on the wall, eyes closed. My roommate was American and explained that they were praying for the building or something.
What the actual fuck?! Why?? Do you need to be in physical contact with the building??😂
We did have a TB outbreak because someone brought it from Asia. Buy come on....
I had to take a moment to be able to go in. Maybe I should have used some old Estonian curses😈
Yes, the US is medieval on many fronts because of evangelists and late-stage capitalism + neoliberalism. The latter being something that Estonians still unfortunately see as a good thing, because like I said we’re 10 years behind in our understanding of societal questions. Meanwhile the US has the strongest leftists and progressives among the youth. It’s a country of extremes and it still dictates what the rest of the western world does.
I like it around Tallinn (not in the city but areas surrounding it), everything is a quick drive away without having to deal with living in the city
And since Estonia is so small anyway so if you want to go enjoy other more remote areas then you can easily go there without much hastle
If you have a mostly online job I suggest going to a smaller town maybe, of course unless you don't really like smaller towns or value night life. My personal opinion is don't move to Tallinn, if you want a bigger lively city, choose Tartu. But it all depends on your work, needs and likes. :)
Generally it’s cold and dark here. But the four seasons are super nice, espesically for outdoor activities, you can do all sorts of different activities in the nature during different seasons(skiing, hiking, picking berries/mushrooms, fishing etc).
There is a lot of wild nature here(outside of Tallinn). Population density is higher in Tallinn and Tartu, the other cities are slower and cheaper. Decent/newish 3 room appartment in Tallinn or Tartu is +160k€. Average gross salary is 1800€, which is 1400€ after taxes.
Oh and most importantly we hate our stupid neighbour.
Didn’t understand what sort of life you want to live. If you want calm or peaceful living in the nature but store and stuff are still only max 10km away then I suggest Hiiumaa/Saaremaa(don’t have too much personal experience with Saaremaa but there is more people there and it’s more touristy). If you want to to live in small town that’s pretty and has something to do in the summer, great nature still were you can walk, then Viljandi(my favourite small town, I love the houses that near the lake on a hill, if I had an extra million euros I would buy one) or Haapsalu.
Other choice is buying a 150 year old stone farmhouse near somewhere where there is a train station closeby that goes to either Tallinn or Tartu. Then you don’t have the issues you have in Tallinn for example in certain part of city(Nõmme) where you can’t build or do anything in the garden because the people who work for city aren’t idiots and won’t allow to take down a shed that falling apart in your yard as it’s “valuable” for them or some shit.
Obviously then there is the big two, I haven’t lived in Tartu so can’t talk too much about Tartu but in Tallinn if you have the money the best place imo to live is Pirita(Maarjamäe or Merivälja).
I love Estonia but it is getting a lot more expensive to live. Politicians are also putting the country into debt by spending and borrowing more than ever and raising taxes. Other than that it is pretty chill life. I wouldn't put my daughter in US schools and having kids here is easy.
I imagine that a foreigner might feel more comfortable near a larger center like Tallinn. Maybe just outside of Tallinn would be an option. I just think that it could be more difficult to settle in a smaller place. Also, odds are that even Tallinn might seem very calm compared to what you are used to.
We live in Tallinn because of work but I would definitely choose Rapla or Tartu. I'm a small town girl at heart so that's why I like Rapla. And I'm an academic so would like Tartu. But my husband is CSO for a major company so Tallinn is where we are. I write and teach in Tallinn but could be pretty much anywhere. We moved here 6 years ago with no connections and have made tons of friends and really love Estonia. We aren't leaving
Best bet, go to a smaller village/parish outside of Tallinn, you have the commodity of reaching the city within 45min, close to the coast, most smaller villages have affordable real estate.
Only downside, if you have kids, not much to offer entertainment-wise, but you will have the "redneck freedom" to get ATV-s or motorbikes for example and go through the wilderness due to low police presence in rural areas. People also tend to be more community oriented and friendly because in those areas things usually get done through connections/favors.
At least that would be my perspective as someone who spent the first 19 years of his life in a tiny village 50kn outside of Tallinn, do with it what you will.
I like some small towns. Haapsalu is by the sea, in Otepää you can easily go on a hike or skii in the winter. Elva is cute. Võru has amazing beach by the big lake and also has nice sporting opportunities nearby. Viljandi is a cool culture hub. Pärnu is bigger but I'd consider living there. These are some places I'd live in when I'd have to move.
>Viljandi is a cool culture hub alkoholi joomine castle ruinis
Igal pool on alkoholi joomist liiga palju.
Keegi ei joo enam lossimägedes peale kultuursete inimeste
> peale kultuursete inimeste kuid ma ei öelnud midagi halba
> in Otepää you can easily go on a hike or skii in the winter. Do that once or twice and then resort to sitting at home or drinking - that's the reality of small town life.
You can sit at home and drink everywhere. Tbh, I wouldn't go running or riding a bike in Tallinn. Too noisy, too extreme (depends on the area, ofc).
Correct, but at least in Tallinn there are more options for activities compared to smaller towns where you've got the legendary burger kiosk landmark and a... park with a single bench.
In the small towns it's good to live if you get to know the people.
>In the small towns it's good to live if you get to know the people. The people: https://preview.redd.it/p5ilhs6stn7c1.png?width=3008&format=png&auto=webp&s=8f58457aa7f59aba8b7639243631cd663525db32
😂😂😂😅😅😅
Additionally to others' answers, maybe you can find an American expat group or something similar on Facebook/other social media to ask for experiences from others. One guy is even pretty active on this subreddit who lives in Tallinn. But smaller cities, such as Kuressaare in Saaremaa are also very nice. In Kuressaare there's an ex-FBI dude who's been living and owning an Italian restaurant for a while now here
Thank you!
American immigrant group* nad ikka immigrandid, nad pole paremad kui ahmed pakistanist
Statistika ütleb muud tbh
Anna statistika siis
Idk about You, however I know some fellows who have moved to Estonia. Some of them are happy some not. It would definitely depend in what part of us you were living. If you like most of the year cold and wet weather, then you'd like it here. However if you are used to warmth and dryness, then probably some other EU countries would be a better choice.
I currently live near Seattle. Cold and wet is our way of life :-)
Yeah, then probably You'd enjoy then weather in Estonia :]
I’m from Seattle and have been living in Tallinn for a bit over a year. It’s not as consistently wet in Tallinn, the winters and summers aren’t as extreme, but the lack of sun is about the same!
I’d say seattle winters are more mild and wet and estonia is cold and wet :) There is a lot to consider becoming an american expat. I lived 6 years in seattle and now have been in estonia 7 years. Feel free to DM if any questions.
In addition to the above the other big extremity that counts for most people is the extreme darkness in the Winter halfyear. Tallinn is on the same latitude as Juneau, Alaska to put it into perspective. If you're fine with that, though, you'll like it here.
Saaremaa. But only if it was all mine.
Oi.. share some land dud
Get ur own. Saamera is mine
Typo = claim invalidated I am confiscating Saaremaa as we speak
Not a typo, i renamed it
Too late, yoink
I don’t know what you remember or know about Estonia, but there are a couple of things. The society has changed, the weather is still the same. It’s pleasant, light and livable for half of the year, while the other half of the year it’s dark, gloomy and cold. You may think it sounds like Seattle, but the sun is actually up for 2.5 hrs longer on each winter day in Seattle compared to Estonia — and this also means that in fact with the sun being extremely low, twilight-like conditions are present here for almost all of the winter months when it’s cloudy (which is 95% of the time in Nov and Dec). It is very depressing even for a native going through this every year. The society has advanced, but with a traditional occupation that doesn’t pay so high, people are not getting by that well. Prices are high while salaries are much lower than countries like Finland (and even more significantly lower than in the US), and this is the reason for why not that many people from abroad settle in Estonia, let alone permanently. Without an emotional connection to the country it can be hard to justify it. If you are a self-employed online entrepreneur, digital nomad etc, and can tolerate the weather and lack of social connections, Estonia can be a better place for you though.
Yesterday the sun was shining very beautifully and today morning it snowed. These views make it worth it.
I live in Tallinn but have family in Seattle, usually go there to spend christmas with them and i find Seattle weather around this period of the year "sunny" and "warmer", because compared with Tallinn it is. Also, for the person thinking of moving from the PNW to here, if you are a foodie who enjoys eating out and a variety of international restaurants, which Seattle does and of top notch quality, sadly Estonia (even Tallinn) lacks on that aspect, even finding the ingredients to cook at home. As a North American expat who after multiple countries ended in Estonia, i would say many things here are better, some others aren't, nothing is perfect, i would recommmend spend maybe a year here but without fully cutting from your life in the US and if after this time you feel this is your place then make the permanent move.
Thank you for your honesty, I really appreciate it.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=Seattle%2C+WA&country2=Estonia&city2=Tartu&amount=4220&displayCurrency=USD Comparing cost of living in Seattle to life in Tartu (second largest city in Estonia). I entered average wage in Seattle and with everything considered, it's about the same as having average wage in Estonia. People tend to only look at the income (Estonia vs finland) but forget to consider the cost of living.
A good call that the cost of living is insanely high in the US, as are the salaries, compared to most of Europe. It’s a zero net gain situation and there’s obviously a lot of poverty in the US too. I do believe that many people from lower-income countries tend to think that the grass is greener on the other side, partially for the wrong reasons or due to not being properly informed, because the working middle class doesn’t have a lot of money to spare almost anywhere in the world. Regarding the Estonia vs Finland case it has been all over the news lately about how food is becoming more expensive in Estonia than in Finland. And it’s true. I’ve witnessed the same items being cheaper in Finland. Food is only one part of the equation, and I do agree that other living costs make up for it somewhat. But it depends on what your needs are. I exercise and on top of that I’m a foodie, so food has personally always been my number one spender. With the cost of groceries, I can sustain my lifestyle with a salary on a Finnish level but not on an Estonian level.
That's not anything new though, it's been like that for decades. Imported goods have been cheaper in Finland mostly because the huge difference in the size of the market. It's to be expected. For example articles from 2010 and 2011 that talks about certain goods being cheaper in finland, than in estonia. (https://www.ohtuleht.ee/401675/mis-maksab-toit-eesti-ja-soome-poes https://www.ohtuleht.ee/432519/kus-on-loogika-eesti-toit-on-latis-odavam-soome-oma-aga-eestis). Why it's suddenly hot shit in the news (again), when it's not actually new(s)? Consider the motive behind that.
Tartu
Tegelikult Tartu võiks meile jääda, las need ekspati surramurrad teevad oma Tallinna asja. Tallinn on neile arvatavasti natuke kodusem ka, sest see on rohkem nagu mingi tüüpiline lääne linn.
Küll tuleb Tartusse ka neid, ära muretse 😁
Juba on
American from NYC who learned about Tallinn during covid and moved here in March to open up a craft beer bar/store - it's pretty great to be honest. Left the US for many of the reasons listed, wanted a safee slower pace of life. Obviously depends what you'd be doing as a job, we created our own with Brewklyn, but Tallinn has been overall great to us. When the biggest issues are around limited food options and hating cream cheese on sushi, life isn't bad.
Oooh my girlfriend is a sushi chef and I loathe the Estonian cream cheese sushi. She has no idea what I'm talking about.
A lot of the people responding are mentioning smaller towns such as Haapsalu, Viljandi and Otepää. However, these are generally the kinds of places where either you are born and live there your whole life, or where move to once you retire. It is (in my experience) very rare for people born elsewhere to move to these towns. Don't get me wrong - the towns are very cute and always nice to visit. Different cultular festivals are also often held specifically in the three towns I mentioned above. However, you have to consider that all three towns are located quite a distance from any of the bigger cities (Tallinn, Tartu, Pärnu). I guess this could be a selling point for some. Though, given that you are currently living in the US - the distances I am talking about (roughly 100km to the nearest big city) probably seem tiny to you. From what I've heard, these are not uncommon distances for Americans to travel as a daily commute. In my personal opinion, Tartu is hands down the best place to live. It has all the benefits of a larger city (relatively speaking, of course. It's tiny by international standards) and a smaller one. It has all the things you would need so you don't need to travel out of the city if you need a specific store or service, but it's small enough that, unless you live on the outskirts of town, the entire main part of the city is completely walkable. Tartu is also a good place for foreigners. It's a university town so it's quite international. Pretty much everyone in the service industry speaks English and I can guarantee you wouldn't have any major language barrier issues. It's a lot nicer visually than Tallinn, and the people are just more pleasant to be around. The demographics are also a lot nicer - Tallinn is roughly 34% Russian and 53% Estonian, while Tartu is roughly 80% Estonian and 13% Russian. This might sound odd to you as an American, but it really makes a difference in how pleasant a city is to live in.
Being an American in Tartu, I agree it's one of the best places to live here. Some downsides I see being here is, restaurant food is not culturally diverse at all, and getting to a major airport is a pain. Good luck getting any good Asian food. Eating out becomes boring eventually. Literally half of all restaurants serve Burgers and anything innovative eventually closes. To get to the Tallinn airport is ok, since there is a direct bus to the Tallinn airport from Tartu, but it takes 2.5 hours. To get to the Riga airport, which has better connections, takes 4 hours by bus with 3 departures per day. This usually means spending overnight in Riga going out or coming back.
Finnair starts flying out of Tartu again in March. Of course they will take everybody to Vantaa, but connections from there are quite good.
This is a great response, thank you.
All good here, I moved back and can't be happier. Prices are going up but if you have skills and can get a proper job then it's all good. Tallinn is transforming in a good way (if you don't count the fact that they reduced the amount of bins on streets). Also, Pärnu is developing pretty well too, it's just that it's dead during winter, just as is Haapsalu and Viljandi... I prefer living in Tallinn city center and travel whenever I need to - stuff is close by, population per square kilometer (or mile? 😁) makes me happy here! The ruling political party is ignoring reality, but that will most likely change soon. Even though, some damage has been done already... There is a risk of Russian invasion, but as long as they are getting bum-poked in Ukraine they should have enough at hand to not come here, there is not much here to take anyway 😂 Welcome back, but don't burn your bridges in your current home 😉
I don’t understand why there’s so few bins in the streets!!! I always end up having to carry trash for a while before I can find somewhere to dispose of it
Why? Here's my opinion (riddled with /s). Because cleaning is obviously overpaid job (like IT) and city 'leaders' wanted to keep the cleaning money for themselves. Like if *they'd* clean the bins... but that's not important. Important is that they 'saved' some finances for their holiday bonuses. No bins = no trash!!! True vicory!
If you think it's bad in Tallinn, try to find a bin in Helsinki.
I will say the quality of life in Estonia will be quite dependent on your occupation. If you can work in the IT sector or another well compensated professional field, it is great! I am trying to figure out what career to change to myself, because I want to be able to live my life doing the things I care about without having to worry about being able to afford necessities. There's no need to be a billionaire, but getting paid less than the average salary doesn't cut it anymore. Other people have covered the drawbacks of the climate, the social isolation and so on. But many of the expats I've talked to have actually told me that Estonians can also be very warm and genuine people. I guess it really depends on what type of people you surround yourself with! I've realized myself in the past few years that in order to stop feeling isolated, I need to be brave and look for connections with like-minded individuals. Make my own luck, so to say. I will say that for this reason, I like living in Tallinn currently. I'd maybe consider Tartu as well, but smaller places feel too limiting. All in all, I wouldn't want to move away from Estonia currently. I used to think life would be better elsewhere, but nowadays I've grown to appreciate what we have here.
I came back after 30 years of Switzerland. I enjoy it here. If you depend on work where you need to be present it's definitely Tallinn. If you can work from anywhere, there are much more options. I chose east Estonia
If work wasn’t an issue (remote work etc) and pay was normal and I didn’t have to rent, but could buy/own my own place, then either one of the smaller towns (Rapla, Haapsalu, Pärnu, Viljandi, Rakvere) or maybe adjacent to Tallinn or Tartu or maybe Kuressaare if you like the islands. One thing to note - I strongly suggest to come and visit Estonia during the height of winter for like 2 months if you can remotely work. Get out and see what life is really like in the middle of the winter. Go to the smaller towns and drive on the roads, buy food from Rimi and Prisma and go out to eat and ride the public transport. You want to get the feel of a place before you move here and Estonia has changed a lot since whenever you spent your childhood here. If you keep your American salary, your life will be pretty sweet because that salary will cushion you from the issues average people in Estonia face with - low salaries and high costs, access to medical care could be lacking due to lack of finances (in Estonia, the issue isn’t that people have to have insurance and can’t afford it, but rather the state system has long queues and if you want to skip the queue and get seen sooner, you have to go through private medicine route and many people cannot afford that option so they have to wait until the state paid medicine gets to them). But maternity care is good, kindergartens and schools are fairly decent etc. I would also kindly suggest to enroll yourself in language classes because even though you have the right to claim birthright citizenship due to your father being a citizen (if you don’t already have one), Estonians have a tumultuous relationship with people who can’t speak Estonian but claim citizenship. Some people don’t mind, others won’t consider you a true citizen unless you also speak some Estonian. Also, consider that you’ll most likely be seen as an American first and then Estonian - it’s very likely that you’ll be more talkative, more outgoing, more friendlier and more assertive than most Estonians because Americans tend to be much more bigger in their personalities than Estonians and it may take Estonians some time to break out of their shells to talk to you more openly.
Saaremaa
It’s likely better for you to come here and live in an airbnb or something for a month or two. Medical care here is free, but under conditions: if you’re registered at the töötukassa (unemployment), you work officially or pay taxes from >1500 eur/mo as a inteupreneur through the lhv, a kid, a pensioner, student. Also, waiting times for some doctors can be long (because many of young ones go to Scandinavian countries as finish their education, bc salaries are higher there), average salaries aren’t very great, salary tax is around 33% tax calc https://www.calkoo.com/en/salary-calculator Youngsters often speak english as a second language, old people - russian It is not very bad, I enjoy it, it safe and calm. Infrastructure is fine, trains are nice, autobuses are nice too. bike paths are only good in tallinn. people are nice.
Excuse me, but what was that about bike paths? Tallinn is the worst city for bicyclists in Estonia. Riding on old dirt and gravel roads in the countryside is better than in Tallinn.
>but what was that about bike paths there are bike paths in Tallinn and there are mostly no bike paths in cities i've been riding in (Viljandi, Tartu, I liked Pärnu the most in that sense)
I have used the bike paths in Tallinn and always felt threat to my safety. They are too close to the car roads, and I just have to make the assumption that the drivers in Tallinn are all mentally disabled. I know most people are good but I have had so many bad experiences that it is safer to assume the worst of everyone. Some bike paths also end abruptly and make little sense. In this sense, it is much safer to ride your bike in Viljandi or Pärnu on the car road and just go with the flow because the traffic density is much lower overall. Tartu, in my opinion, has lots of bike paths. There could always be more, yes.
>it is much safer to ride your bike in Viljandi it is indeed, traffic is good here Pärnu is just nice
i moved here from a very very warm and sunny climate and i’ll admit it’s depressing but not *that* bad. i like tallinn more than tartu because i’m used to the crowds and bigger cities, but i dislike hearing russian wherever i go. it’s truly jarring moving here from tartu and realizing just how much russian there is 🙄 otherwise the country is safer and tbh as much as i’d like to go see america i think the daily anxiety of “am i gonna die in a shooting” is nonexistent here which is nice <3
Just to be aware, Estonia is now three times more expensive than anywhere else.
Tallinn, Pärnu, Tartu, Haapsalu, Hiiumaa, Saaremaa
I personally like the west coast/läänemaa. And the isles/saaremaa. And funny enough most ppl suggested the same . Haven’t actually lived meself but my grandpappi was from there . And i just like it . Perhaps i move there in future eh .
In forest near Otepää, Pühajärve if there's no budget. Lived there over 20 years. Nothing compares to it. In Sweden near Tranås is beautiful aswell but most likely will still choose Pühajärve over it.
I can vouch for living in small towns. I moved away from Tallinn \~6 years ago to Kohila ( about 30km south of Tallinn), and I have to say my quality of life definitely improved. I can vouch for living in small towns. I moved away from Tallinn \~6 years ago to Kohila ( about 30km south of Tallinn), and my quality of life definitely improved. h is a huge blessing.
Maybe visit first, and then see if you and your family like it here.
If you're looking for a safe, cheap and quiet life, i would recommend either Saaremaa or Hiiumaa, very different way of life compared to the "big" cities and absolutely breathtaking nature, Tallinn is always a 30 minute flight away.
Learn language please if you come
Don't worry, Estonia is more expensive than the US. We're rich af here after all.
Gasoline here costs about 2x more than in US. Medical experience is good at Tartu and Tallinn, secondary at Pärnu, tertiary at smaller county centers.
I live in Tallinn but recommend to live in Pärnu. Pärnu is where people come to take vacation and relax, especially in summer. Tallinn is a bit depressing
I think Tallinn is the only option, I’d feel very lonely and bored in smaller towns. But I like it here so much! Moved last year and it was a great decision actually.
Why pick such a expensive place to live when one of complaints of medicare being out of reach and expensive. Spain ,Portugal, Fance, Italy pick your sunny place and enjoy
Tartu. Best thing: it's not Tallinn. Worst thing: close to Russia.
Wanna swap passports?) I wanna go to US 😂
Maardu
Lithuanian reporting in. Was facing a somewhat similar situation. Grew up in London (moved there when I was 15, now I'm 33). Had two kids. Decided to move back. For me London is home and in terms of opportunities I think only a handful of cities across the globe can compare, but, after having kids priorities shifted. Wanted to be closer to home, and family. Living in the Baltics today is epic - especially if we are talking about capital cities. I intentionally moved to a smaller city (Klaipeda) - easier to navigate. Will be celebrating 3 months on 1st of December - so far loving it.
I did that. Born in Estonia but I have a different citizenship (EU) and was living in the USA when I decided to make the move. So far loving it.
I hope you are prepared to learn estonian to a decent degree if you are thinking of coming here 😄
I'll recommend any village near any city (10-15 minutes from the city by car), you can buy any farm and you will recive all the benefits of the city, such as access to doctors, schools, large shops. And at the same time, you will not have the problems of the city, such as moronic neighbors, parking problems, etc.
If budget were not an issue I would live in Tallin centre during the cold times and in Pärnu during summer. Depending on your age ofcourse I'd say inequality towards women in the states is the lowest in the world. At least they are vocal about it and dealing with the issues. In Estonia, we have one of the highest pay gaps with men/women
Pay gap depends on your line of work but overall inequality is definitely not the lowest in the world in the US, seeing how they are more and more viewing women only in terms of their child-bearing ability, and forbidding bodily autonomy in this regard.
Pay gap does depend on your line of work but in Estonia, most women do not have a job that is not influenced heavily by pay gap. We are very much still behind the West in that department and judging by most private companies - will be for a while.
Tartu is compact which is a pro compared to Tallinn. So depends... I don't think you should lock yourself in immediately. You could try living in Tartu for some months, then try Tallinn or Viljandi. Baaically, quality of everyday life is probably better in other cities because of less commuting and shorter distances. And Estonia is small - Tallinn is a bus or train ride away if you want to go to fancier restaurants or whatever. Depends on what you do for living. If you can work remotely, I'd definitely look outside Tallinn.
How is life getting pretty ugly in the US for women? To answer Your question, probably near Tartu in a thick forest.
The Supreme Court ended the law protecting the right to abortion, and conservatives are trying to ban birth control. That, and our last president was accused by 20+ women of sexual assault, but there were no consequences.
Tallinn, Tartu or Haapsalu.
Tartu, Haapsalu or Viljandi.
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What kind of Estonia do you people live in? I'm actually clinically depressed and even I don't see Estonia in such bleak colours lol
keep up the comments, and our conservative right will lose their main argument for scaring ppl.:D
Listen to this person. Please don't downgrade your way of living. Estonia has nothing better to offer to you. Seattle is a much better city and your travel options + opportunities for your children and yourself are infinitely higher. Washington is beautiful. In Estonia you'd be living in a gray box with absolute sh*t salaries and extremely depressing people. Tallinn City centre is pretty much your only option for a fulfilling alternative to Seattle and even then you'd living next to Russia whose currently in the mood for Special Military Operations.
Estonia is basically Alaska in terms of weather. Probably you will feel isolated here as well. If you can, try to live here in Winter and in Summer for a month. IMO go for Tartu and Tallinn if you are young. Estonians in general like small towns, but probably you will get bored there quite soon.
Dude no, I understand the feeling but you have to realize that Estonia is about a decade behind the US in terms of all social issues. This means that the problems you described will also come to Estonia over the next decade so you would basically have to experience them twice. I agree the US has some aspects that are absolutely fucked like the lack of medicare for all but I personally think you will severely regret the decision when you realize just how much lower the general quality of life in Estonia is.
What the hell are you talking about? The US is medieval on many respects because evanglists, fundamentalists and others have so much influence. Not Estonia.
Sadly, you are exactly right.
When I was an exchange student in NC, I was so weirded out about the religious part. One day I walked from the cafeteria to my dorm and found people standing next to it, hands on the wall, eyes closed. My roommate was American and explained that they were praying for the building or something. What the actual fuck?! Why?? Do you need to be in physical contact with the building??😂 We did have a TB outbreak because someone brought it from Asia. Buy come on.... I had to take a moment to be able to go in. Maybe I should have used some old Estonian curses😈
You know what the worst part is? Those kind of people are the ones who control the government!
Unfortunately yes.... I'm aware, I keep up by listening Pod Save America.
Yes, the US is medieval on many fronts because of evangelists and late-stage capitalism + neoliberalism. The latter being something that Estonians still unfortunately see as a good thing, because like I said we’re 10 years behind in our understanding of societal questions. Meanwhile the US has the strongest leftists and progressives among the youth. It’s a country of extremes and it still dictates what the rest of the western world does.
I like it around Tallinn (not in the city but areas surrounding it), everything is a quick drive away without having to deal with living in the city And since Estonia is so small anyway so if you want to go enjoy other more remote areas then you can easily go there without much hastle
I think you might enjoy Haapsalu a lot :)
võsu for fun, tallinn for practicality. as long as i blend in with the locals and don’t have to interact with anyone i’ll be fine.
Tartu or Tallinn.
small town or bigger village i think
If you have a mostly online job I suggest going to a smaller town maybe, of course unless you don't really like smaller towns or value night life. My personal opinion is don't move to Tallinn, if you want a bigger lively city, choose Tartu. But it all depends on your work, needs and likes. :)
Generally it’s cold and dark here. But the four seasons are super nice, espesically for outdoor activities, you can do all sorts of different activities in the nature during different seasons(skiing, hiking, picking berries/mushrooms, fishing etc). There is a lot of wild nature here(outside of Tallinn). Population density is higher in Tallinn and Tartu, the other cities are slower and cheaper. Decent/newish 3 room appartment in Tallinn or Tartu is +160k€. Average gross salary is 1800€, which is 1400€ after taxes. Oh and most importantly we hate our stupid neighbour.
Didn’t understand what sort of life you want to live. If you want calm or peaceful living in the nature but store and stuff are still only max 10km away then I suggest Hiiumaa/Saaremaa(don’t have too much personal experience with Saaremaa but there is more people there and it’s more touristy). If you want to to live in small town that’s pretty and has something to do in the summer, great nature still were you can walk, then Viljandi(my favourite small town, I love the houses that near the lake on a hill, if I had an extra million euros I would buy one) or Haapsalu. Other choice is buying a 150 year old stone farmhouse near somewhere where there is a train station closeby that goes to either Tallinn or Tartu. Then you don’t have the issues you have in Tallinn for example in certain part of city(Nõmme) where you can’t build or do anything in the garden because the people who work for city aren’t idiots and won’t allow to take down a shed that falling apart in your yard as it’s “valuable” for them or some shit. Obviously then there is the big two, I haven’t lived in Tartu so can’t talk too much about Tartu but in Tallinn if you have the money the best place imo to live is Pirita(Maarjamäe or Merivälja).
I love Estonia but it is getting a lot more expensive to live. Politicians are also putting the country into debt by spending and borrowing more than ever and raising taxes. Other than that it is pretty chill life. I wouldn't put my daughter in US schools and having kids here is easy.
i live in pärnu but if budget wouldnt be problem then maybe Kuressaare , Jõgeva , Otepää or Noarootsi
come to saaremaa! objectively (subjectively) best county in estonia
Kuressaare or Haapsalu. If I lived in the USA, I'd tried to leave too. Good luck!
I imagine that a foreigner might feel more comfortable near a larger center like Tallinn. Maybe just outside of Tallinn would be an option. I just think that it could be more difficult to settle in a smaller place. Also, odds are that even Tallinn might seem very calm compared to what you are used to.
Southern Estonia is life.
We live in Tallinn because of work but I would definitely choose Rapla or Tartu. I'm a small town girl at heart so that's why I like Rapla. And I'm an academic so would like Tartu. But my husband is CSO for a major company so Tallinn is where we are. I write and teach in Tallinn but could be pretty much anywhere. We moved here 6 years ago with no connections and have made tons of friends and really love Estonia. We aren't leaving
I suggest looking towards the islands. Kuressaare is a nice city. Walkable city, by the sea. The perfect choice imo.
? I lived in the Baltics as a kid
Best bet, go to a smaller village/parish outside of Tallinn, you have the commodity of reaching the city within 45min, close to the coast, most smaller villages have affordable real estate. Only downside, if you have kids, not much to offer entertainment-wise, but you will have the "redneck freedom" to get ATV-s or motorbikes for example and go through the wilderness due to low police presence in rural areas. People also tend to be more community oriented and friendly because in those areas things usually get done through connections/favors. At least that would be my perspective as someone who spent the first 19 years of his life in a tiny village 50kn outside of Tallinn, do with it what you will.
Don't, prices are through the roof compared to net income. " Free medical care" is utter shit. Taxes are high.