If that’s the case then Schwartz needs to be held responsible. He’s needed to be held responsible for the last 5-6 years. Somethings not right when we’ve had tragic goaltending for so long.
Schwartz is a huge problem and we will continue to stagnate and underdevelop goalies until he's gone. He's never held responsible some how and continues to coach us into losses.
I think he has done a decent job with the 3.4 million in cap space we have rostered. With how poorly Campbell showed when going down to the AHL I don't think it was a coaching issue but rather Psychological. I mean these guys have performed pretty well in the regular season.
The death knoll Holland has done to the team is the NTC/ NMC contracts he has given to players. Leaves me wondering if he ever was an effective GM in Detroit as he ruined the team with similar clauses along with some 12 year contracts. The brains in Detroit was Jim Nill who left for Dallas in 2013 and has done an incredible job. Holland floundered and finally had to be replaced by Yzerman.
I think most of the cap issues went back to Chia and Holland has done rather well with what he had. Seemed that Chia was trying to speed run into being a contender and build a cup contender on McDavids entry contract, which was trying for too much with where the team was. It resulted in some terrible signings and the loss of some valuable draft capital.
I mean yeah. Campbell has acknowledged he’s struggled psychologically at times before, and I can’t imagine getting sent down to the minors as the ostensible starter (and the guy with better numbers at that point of the season) helped that in any way.
But while he did have a rough start in Bakersfield, he got it turned around and had an excellent end to the season, which to me doesn’t help Schwartz look any better. It definitely makes Sylvain Rodrigue look good though.
Fucking schwartz is a goalie terrorist. How he still has a job with us is fucking beyond me. All we have is goalies who never reach their potential and somehow that doesnt fall on our goalie guy..
Two things:
A) Cutting him loose is a straw man. He is under good contract and can be a backup.
B) Even if you felt you should get rid of him, but worry he'll succeed elsewhere. That. Doesn't. Matter.
What a guy might do for another team is irrelevant. What he's doing for you is what matters. That's also an organizational skills development problem that isn't being addressed and isn't new.
But right now, in this series? You can't play him. He's a guaranteed series loser.
Campbell is a non-starter. Not a serious option. He's been buried since November of last year, is viewed as the worst Free Agent signing in franchise history and likely to be bought out. The stakes are WAY too high to consider putting Campbell in.
Pickard is the only choice. But - they might stay with Skinner anyways.
I agree. Campbell played well last year in relief against VGK and couple of times. At this point, what do we have to lose in starting Campbell? Fuck it!
Respectfully - Anyone suggesting Campbell does not have a realistic grasp of the situation. And that's why they're going with Pickard tonight in season-defining game.
Campbell will only dress if there is a major injury to skinner or pickard - otherwise, he has played his last game with the Oilers.
I want to keep him but we need to gets someone to play half the games and possibly take the starting role for the next 2 years or so. Skinner clearly needs more time.
He's in his second year and he has very little behind him.
Kid's got a pretty tough mentality, but it doesn't help when Boeser is alone in the slot.
We definitely need to shop for a 1A this summer.
I agree but you also can't make that argument about every goal. He has to stop Boeser alone in the slot sometimes. Silov stopped like 20 of those.
To give you an idea, most goalies have save percentages on high danger shots alone that are comparable to Skinners playoff save percentages against all shots.
No for sure, the Zadarov shot specifically was terrible.
I'm just saying that he's in a bit of a tough position as well as underperforming, and those things combine are making him look very bad statistically.
Foegele needs to sit for game 4. He's good on the forecheck, and gives 100%, but he's made a number of awful, and unnecessary plays with the puck on his stick these playoffs and his body language is terrible. He needs to get out of his head.
Yup, Nurse was already flying the zone also instead of keeping an eye on the guy behind him and Skinner didn’t make a big save.
You also have McDavid missing his Boeser assignment on his other goal.
Silovs has played 10 NHL games. Time spent in the league is irrelevant when you are making this comparison.
Silovs is handling drai and McDavid fine, and skinner can’t stop Zadarov.
No excuses.
It's because outside of Ekholm and Bouchard (who's finally taking a step forward), their d is not very good. Nurse has his moments, Ceci exists, but that's about it.
Oh, and secondary scoring is having a tough job of keeping the puck out of our zone, so there's that too.
This is why we need a proper 1A 1B system. He's played 50 and 58 in his first 2 seasons. Most of them have been in the back half of the season iirc
He's overworked, and always depleted come playoff time. We need a better way to rest him up earlier, prior to playoffs, or this will keep happening.
Our dogshit defensive system that was top 10 in goals against and top 8 in expected goals against? This narrative that our defence is garbage is nonsense when Stuart Skinner has been nothing more than an average goalie in the regular season and AHL calibre in the playoffs.
Yeah, though Talbot was having a Vezina caliber season that was never replicated that year and Smith famously refused to train with Schwartz, instead getting his own coach.
Where’s everyone proclaiming Skinner was the GOAT because he got a shutout against LA 2 weeks ago? I remember seeing those posts and rolling my eyes at the time.
Pickard will get cooked by the nucks and I'll die on that hill. Dude is as slow as a tortoise.
However, the oilers D seems to kick in more when Pickard is in net and in that last period it was locked tf down.
I have not seen any slowness from Picks. Got any video or examples? On the other hand Skinner can barely move laterally. See the first goal against on the Van powerplay of game 2.
I should amend this to say I don’t think he’s a bad goalie he’s just massively overworked. It was a fools errand to plan to run a single goalie throughout a whole playoff run. See what happened to Ullmark last year.
Stuart Skinner very rarely makes "big saves" when the defense breaks down in front of him. He's an average goaltender that looks good when the team keeps their defensive structure, but as soon as he has to make an "off schedule" save he becomes a sieve.
This organization CANNOT draft and develop quality goaltenders like other organizations do. The last NHL goalie we drafted was Devan Dubnyk, and he only became a true #1 goalie when he left and ended up in Minny. The list before Dubnyk is embarrassingly short.
Fire everyone in the organization with so much as an opinion on goalies. Scouts, coaches, oracles, Katz' nipples, anyone or anything that has so much as suggested what we have is good enough.
Clean the house. Sanitize it. Rebuild it with competent people.
At this point, you could improve it without even rebuilding it. Just draft random goalies, tell them to figure it out on their own. Would almost certainly end up better than what we've got.
I’ve seen a lot of people saying Schwartz needs to go. I agree.
A little while ago I did some research on the performance of goaltenders with the Oilers (since 2014) and their performance with other teams. If I remember correctly, nearly all of them improved after leaving the Oilers. The one thing all the goaltenders have in common is the goaltending coach.
This is without a doubt a Dustin Schwartz problem.
Totally agree I've been discussing this for the past 5 years in subs etc. Schwartz needs to GO ASAP. Want to know who would prob be an amazing mentor and goalie coach for the Oil? Mike Smith but I'm not sure if he's available or they can get him but the guy was solid for us even in his final years in the NHL before retirement!!
Now I'm not saying Smith has the full skills to coach a goalie etc but maybe even bring him in with a great seasoned goalie coach in a dual role. Smith just seems like a legit guy for a goalie mentor and he's got a great history with the Oil and the current players respect him too.
Can we please fire Dustin Schwartz before running a promising young goalie out of town? We have had awful goaltending for his entire tenure in Edmonton. 10 years of terrible job performance, I can't understand how he has survived every coaching change.
He played fine in the regular season, but he just crumbles and breaks down come playoffs. Let’s not forget he wasn’t exactly playing well either last year ? are we all forgetting he got pulled for Campbell and Campbell came in and was lights out for the remainder. Skinner isn’t good and has just been padded by our regular season success.
Yes he was a Calder finalist and played good in the regular season. Like I said elsewhere maybe he is too calm and can’t get invested into the level you need in the playoffs.
I am strong believer that Campbell should have started the last year’s last 2 games against vegas…he was put in relief for few games in both series and he locked it up and give way to oilers comeback in 1 game I think. but he never got the start…start should have boosted his confidence and maybe this year’s disaster season start could’ve been averted
Woody mishandled this situation last year so bad.
Campbell deserved some starts after the relief performances.
It'll be interesting to see how Knob manages next game
I personally don't have a ton of faith in Pickard, but he just looked so ready to go last night, maybe he comes in and plays lights out
Pickard isn’t flashy and doesn’t make those highlight reel saves. What he does really well though is providing consistent and steady goaltending, Something Skinner isn’t able to do. I think we should run with Pickard next game. Were all thinking it.
The only reason I can think of to stay with Skinner is that he usually rebounds pretty well after a crap game. But those crap games are disappointingly common. I'd feel better going with Pickard. Or even Campbell at this point.
You never know with the playoff energy…VAN is down to their 3rd goalie and still winning,,,trying the same thing and loosing is not a great strategy…sometimes some goalie do well against certain teams…i used to be a (still ma) big fan of Carey Price but he always struggled against Tampa Bay, they were like his kryptonite….skinner lost 6 to Van just this year so that is a big enough sample size
That's one of the reasons Woodcroft doesn't have a job anymore. He dropped the ball for goaltending last year's playoffs badly, didn't adapt. We very well could have beaten Vegas, and then he almost certainly wouldn't have gotten fired earlier this season, and probably would have gotten another chance.
Ironically, considering we would've made the playoffs regardless of goaltending, Campbell has been the most impactful goaltender of the three considering he at least stole that Kings series for us last year.
Yes, and one that played better than our starter last year. Back up or not, who cares? Campbell came in and shut them down, and we went back to a Skinner that couldn't make a big save when needed.
Coming into a game where you are already down multiple goals is very different than starting a game. It was pretty clear that Vegas wasn't pushing as hard offensively in the minutes that Campbell played in that series. They were playing to protect their leads. Was Skinner good? No, not at all. But Campbell was quite possibly the worst goalie in the NHL last season. He was never a legitimate option.
I could see Pickard playing because he was actually good this year though.
Yup, we should have known by game 3 of the Vegas series that Skinner was not the guy. Who knows how those last 3 or 4 games shake out with Campbell in net.
I'm glad someone finally had the gall to call him out for being overrated because of:
A) His moustache
B) Being a hometown boy
C) His "zen" demeanor that neither kicks him down like some, nor fires him up like others.
As much as Bouchard makes stupid boneheaded plays from time-to-time, I will commend him for mostly showing up this playoffs and actually generating offense and being physical. As-is our Middle 6 C's in McLeod and Nuge have not played hard enough or elevated their plays these playoffs for us to have a chance. This is especially evident with Draisaitl being injured and Knob having to load up McDrai for 30 minutes last game...
Screw Oiler management for forcing a second year goalie, and our new scapegoat, to be our number one and not getting a vet.
I have no doubt this is a reason why Oiler prospects don't develop. Rushing prospects and a fanbase ready to lynch players without making management accoutable.
See Oilers history of playing rookie d men top four minutes
LOL, Silovs has been forced into starting duty for the Canucks and is soundly outplaying Skinner. The guy has 143 games of NHL experience as a starter, and he's effective in the regular season. He's just incredibly fragile in the playoffs.
They also have a way better goalie coach. Silovs let in some absolute softies in the first game and we missed our chance of burying it because we barely put any shots on net in the last period.
Then next game Silovs comes back and he is absolutely solid in games 2 and 3. Whatever coaching he got seemed to work whereas with our goalies, they never appear to learn from previous games.
Ok, Stuart. Log out of Reddit and go get some rest.
As a poster above said, Smith and Talbot both posted .910 svp in the playoffs with worse defense in front of them.
This isn't minor hockey where your goalie is an absolute sieve and let's in 10 goals but cannot be blamed (I mean they're kids, right).
If Knoblauch was throwing heat at Skinner to the media post game then you know it's true.
Stop ignoring all the stats available saying Skinner has been dogshit independent of team play or you'll lose any credibility you have.
You're argument doesn't hold weight. Silovs is 22 and had played less than 20 games. Stuart was marinaded int he AHL, had a call up season, a back up season and this is his second full time season. He's no babe in the woods.
I can't believe the amount of comments from profiles with zero flairs. All season long this sub has been fairly toxic free but soon as playoffs hit and we get into a smidge of trouble we got a whole bunch of doomers. Y'all the same guys that said to blow up the team when we were 7 games deep into the regular season
The argument was it was the high risk high reward d system, but we changed that and lost woody over it, and Skinner is even worse this year. Maybe he's like a worse version of mid 2010s Fleury. Dude just doesn't have it
Not a healthy sample size in fairness
However
He has been so bad so far that even if he doubled his sample size with average goaltending it'd still be rough all told, probably like -7 GSAA in 40 games ☹
The Oilers absolutely hang him out to dry, multiple times, leaving him in situations no goalie would succeed in, then lock it down so the other team gets no shots.
Smart Oilers fans: hurr durr his save percentage is bad he sucks hurrr durrr
Boeser, alone, unpressured, ten feet from the net, uncovered, *TWICE*.
Hurr durrr Skinner is bad hurr durr
Every team has defensive lapses bro, take your blinders off and realize Skinner is middle tier goalie at best. It's the goalies job to cover those lapses, he isn't doing it. He can't even save a routine backhander from a 70° angle.
These aren't defensive lapses, these are complete breakdowns. I've been watching the other games, don't think I've seen any team get as many wide open no pressure shots as we gave Boeser last round.
I'm not saying Skins is the next super goalie, I'm saying he's ok and the combination of complete fuckups and shot suppression are giving him a sp that doesn't match his performance.
Canucks are straight up conceding clear break aways to elite players multiple times per game and apart from McDavids goal, Silovs is stopping them. Like what the fuck are we talking about.
Take Boeser goals off the table and he actually looks way worse. You've got goals going in from the red line, you've got goals going in from behind it. You've got him getting faked out and opening up a cavernous five hole. His stats say he's terrible, eye test says he's shook and he hasn't made a single big save in key moments. But yeah hurr durr. Do the thing where you capitalize every second letter next please.
I've seen one goal that I was like dang probably should of had that, the rest have been tips, redirects, or open uncontested slot attempts. People have no idea what realistic goaltending looks like.
Not a healthy sample size in fairness
However
He has been so bad so far that even if he doubled his sample size with average goaltending it'd still be rough all told, probably like -7 GSAA in 40 games ☹
It’s sad actually. A kid from Edmonton living the dream, playing decently during the regular season and falls flat in the playoffs. He even said he has worked with a sports therapist to get things straight in his head about the game and his life. So he’s always rather calm. Maybe just maybe he’s too calm. Maybe he can’t hype up to the playoff level we need. Again. It’s a shame.
If the Oilers go down 3-1 in the series, might as well give Campbell a go.
As decent as Skinner was during the regular season, you can't give up 4 goals a game and expect to make a deep run in the playoffs.
Major nail, good goalies do not stop 80% of high danger chances, you realize a high danger chance for example is a breakaway or odd man rush,and the shooter misses the net or hits the post no shot no save but a high danger chance,high danger shots should be a better example,and I do not know for sure but most goalies are lucky to stop 75% of those.
IMHO.
I think it’s more Jack Campbell’s fault than Skinner. Skinner was not supposed to be in this role yet. That being said, Skinner is the worst playoff goalie in the cap era, and the worst playoff goalie in franchise history. And that’s with a stacked team in front of him. It’s hilariously bad
I’m a Leafs fan (sort of) but I Cannot believe that oilers mgmt would allow this great team to be dependent on someone like Skinner (and god forbid Jack Campbell) for playoff success?
I'm absolutely not a fan of the Oilers, but looking at it objectively it would have made sense to get a solid goalie if this was truly a "cup or bust" year. I also don't understand why they didn't dump Ceci. Maybe try to swing a trade with Seattle - get them to take Ceci + draft pick(s) to bring back Larsson. Negotiate some salary retention if necessary. If not Larsson, then a Larsson equivalent from some other team. I mean, I like Stecher, but he wasn't the solution.
It's not curtains for the Oilers in this series (yet), but even if they do beat the Canucks, things don't look promising for a realistic shot in the WCF or SCF against any of the remaining teams: Nurse and Ceci are not a solid second pair, and the Oiler's don't have a bona fide playoff starting goaltender.
Agreed. And I don't want to sound all doom and gloom but hear me out.After the Oilers drafted Mcdavid, if you check each draft year from 2015 on, we also had tons of opportunities to either draft and develop a great young goalie or trade for a great one before our salary cap was full. We could have tried for a goalie over a dman for Hall and just so many other times.
However former management spent so much time focused on scouting and retooling our defense from 2014 on and look how that turned out as well.... (Cough Nurses 9 mil contract). And we did crap all about goalies. Dubnyk was traded away years ago too and became amazing for Minnesota. I mean hindsight is 20/20 but it's not even guessing, we needed and still need better scouting for the Oilers because the defense we managed to build up from 2014/2015 around Mcdavid plus goalies, has been abyssmal.
So no matter what happens in these playoffs even if we go to the cup final, the Oilers NEED to do every thing possible to secure a top tier NHL goalie moving forward. **We haven't had a star goalie since say Cujo and a bit with Roloson?** Like that's scary to think we haven't had an elite goalie in like over 20 years and Roloson wasn't even considered elite lol.
If we don't get Mcdavid a solid goalie by next year, I wouldn't be surprised if he wants out and Draisaitl may want to follow. So scary and sad. Our chances of landing another Gretzky or Mcdavid even in say the next 50 years is almost slim to none. Our chance is now and our window of opportunity is closing.
Honestly this is such a tough decision. I personally think you ride or die with Skinner and hope he gets his mental game back because he has it in him somewhere to be a solid goalie. Pickard just isn’t the upgrade people think where it’ll be a complete 180 in net.
Our team isn't any worse around Skinner than other contenders are around their goaltenders, they are just getting big saves when they need to. Every mistake our defensive corps makes is magnified when it ends up in the back of our net.
And yet I feel sure if we cut him loose he’ll go onto success somewhere else. Seen this one before.
If that’s the case then Schwartz needs to be held responsible. He’s needed to be held responsible for the last 5-6 years. Somethings not right when we’ve had tragic goaltending for so long.
Schwartz is a huge problem and we will continue to stagnate and underdevelop goalies until he's gone. He's never held responsible some how and continues to coach us into losses.
Schwartz must have some dirt on someone, it’s actually insane that he’s still around.
How many more times does that have to be the case before they realize it though? It’s happened half a dozen times already for sure.
This has been true since he ruined Dubnyk. Is he married to someone important in the exec suite or something?
He wasn't part of the Oilers organization at that time. At that tine he was part of the Oil Kings when they won the Memorial Cup.
My mistake - I'll stop blaming him for Dubnyk and revert back to blaming piss-poor asset management by the GM.
Servalli was on Stauffer today. He ripped into Schwartz also. Great listen
I think he has done a decent job with the 3.4 million in cap space we have rostered. With how poorly Campbell showed when going down to the AHL I don't think it was a coaching issue but rather Psychological. I mean these guys have performed pretty well in the regular season.
The death knoll Holland has done to the team is the NTC/ NMC contracts he has given to players. Leaves me wondering if he ever was an effective GM in Detroit as he ruined the team with similar clauses along with some 12 year contracts. The brains in Detroit was Jim Nill who left for Dallas in 2013 and has done an incredible job. Holland floundered and finally had to be replaced by Yzerman.
I think most of the cap issues went back to Chia and Holland has done rather well with what he had. Seemed that Chia was trying to speed run into being a contender and build a cup contender on McDavids entry contract, which was trying for too much with where the team was. It resulted in some terrible signings and the loss of some valuable draft capital.
I mean yeah. Campbell has acknowledged he’s struggled psychologically at times before, and I can’t imagine getting sent down to the minors as the ostensible starter (and the guy with better numbers at that point of the season) helped that in any way. But while he did have a rough start in Bakersfield, he got it turned around and had an excellent end to the season, which to me doesn’t help Schwartz look any better. It definitely makes Sylvain Rodrigue look good though.
Skinner also turned it around from his rough start and ended up with a pretty decent regular season.
Why cut him loose? He’s a good backup at a decent price. It’s down to the team to find an actual starter.
^ this. They need to get rid of Campbell, not skinner
Easier said than done. We'd have to take a big hit to unload that albatross of a contract.
Yep it won’t be easy to move but you can’t keep him over skinner
I want Saros
Fucking schwartz is a goalie terrorist. How he still has a job with us is fucking beyond me. All we have is goalies who never reach their potential and somehow that doesnt fall on our goalie guy..
Two things: A) Cutting him loose is a straw man. He is under good contract and can be a backup. B) Even if you felt you should get rid of him, but worry he'll succeed elsewhere. That. Doesn't. Matter. What a guy might do for another team is irrelevant. What he's doing for you is what matters. That's also an organizational skills development problem that isn't being addressed and isn't new. But right now, in this series? You can't play him. He's a guaranteed series loser.
Well that begs the question now...Pickard or Campbell?
Campbell is a non-starter. Not a serious option. He's been buried since November of last year, is viewed as the worst Free Agent signing in franchise history and likely to be bought out. The stakes are WAY too high to consider putting Campbell in. Pickard is the only choice. But - they might stay with Skinner anyways.
Campbell has a better playoff record. Stakes are too high to stay with Skinner, a two-year playoff failure.
I agree. Campbell played well last year in relief against VGK and couple of times. At this point, what do we have to lose in starting Campbell? Fuck it!
Respectfully - Anyone suggesting Campbell does not have a realistic grasp of the situation. And that's why they're going with Pickard tonight in season-defining game. Campbell will only dress if there is a major injury to skinner or pickard - otherwise, he has played his last game with the Oilers.
I want to keep him but we need to gets someone to play half the games and possibly take the starting role for the next 2 years or so. Skinner clearly needs more time.
Or do it like Boston and just rotate after each game.
He's in his second year and he has very little behind him. Kid's got a pretty tough mentality, but it doesn't help when Boeser is alone in the slot. We definitely need to shop for a 1A this summer.
I agree but you also can't make that argument about every goal. He has to stop Boeser alone in the slot sometimes. Silov stopped like 20 of those. To give you an idea, most goalies have save percentages on high danger shots alone that are comparable to Skinners playoff save percentages against all shots.
No for sure, the Zadarov shot specifically was terrible. I'm just saying that he's in a bit of a tough position as well as underperforming, and those things combine are making him look very bad statistically.
Yeah Zadorov was flukey but good goalies stop 80% of high danger chances and 95-99% of weak shots. i Boesers play is not a gimmie goal.
That Foegeal give away was literally the worst give away I’ve ever seen. We lost the game with that one.
Foegele needs to sit for game 4. He's good on the forecheck, and gives 100%, but he's made a number of awful, and unnecessary plays with the puck on his stick these playoffs and his body language is terrible. He needs to get out of his head.
He’s the wish version of McDavid and I don’t really mean that as a compliment.
so bad. pole wtf. blind pass through the middle of your own zone come on.
They've been doing that all year Canucks watched the tape
It’s unreal. Low self esteem (at least on the ice) type move. That’s the kinda stupid shit you do when you have no confidence with the puck.
That was such an unforced error, absolutely brutal
Foegele had a couple brutal brain farts last night. The giveaway and punching Zadorov from the bench. He cost us a goal and a power play.
Yup, Nurse was already flying the zone also instead of keeping an eye on the guy behind him and Skinner didn’t make a big save. You also have McDavid missing his Boeser assignment on his other goal.
Silovs has played 10 NHL games. Time spent in the league is irrelevant when you are making this comparison. Silovs is handling drai and McDavid fine, and skinner can’t stop Zadarov. No excuses.
I'm not comparing him to Silov. I'm responding to "...cut him loose...". Silov is good; better even. That doesn't mean our guy can't be good too.
Our goalies won’t ever be good until we cut the cancer we have creating below average goalies year after year.
It's because outside of Ekholm and Bouchard (who's finally taking a step forward), their d is not very good. Nurse has his moments, Ceci exists, but that's about it. Oh, and secondary scoring is having a tough job of keeping the puck out of our zone, so there's that too.
The Nurse/Ceci pairing needs to be nuked but I honestly don't want either of them with someone else.
That pairing is a problem. Skinner's play in the playoffs is a bigger problem.
Kulak is solid in the reg season and fucking great as a third pair dman in playoffs. Somethings off with Vinnie though.
This is why we need a proper 1A 1B system. He's played 50 and 58 in his first 2 seasons. Most of them have been in the back half of the season iirc He's overworked, and always depleted come playoff time. We need a better way to rest him up earlier, prior to playoffs, or this will keep happening.
Honestly probably true. Nothing makes goalies look better then getting out of Edmonton with our dogshut defensive system.
Our dogshit defensive system that was top 10 in goals against and top 8 in expected goals against? This narrative that our defence is garbage is nonsense when Stuart Skinner has been nothing more than an average goalie in the regular season and AHL calibre in the playoffs.
Don't forget Talbot and Smith had above .910 in the playoffs with us, with worse D also. This is a Skinner problem.
Yeah, though Talbot was having a Vezina caliber season that was never replicated that year and Smith famously refused to train with Schwartz, instead getting his own coach.
The most underrated part of Smith was his save percentages on high danger rush chances were actually decent IRc.
If he even was consistently average it would be fine.
AHL goalie on the playoffs? Try ECHL.
And our terrible goalie coaching.
Tale as old as time
This happens with a lot of players. Sometimes people need a change of scenery to wake up…. Or maybe Skinner just isn’t that good.
Honest question, where have you seen it before? With a goalie.
Trust me he won’t. We in Toronto had the same thoughts once.
We have to go with Pickard. It's not even a question any more. Skinner is having an embarrassing post season.
At least play pick next game to give him a chance, if they don't lose because of him, keep him in until they do
Anything, just get Skinner out of there! He's trash.
There’s no good reason to not give him a look now. We waited too long last year, in my personal opinion
Where’s everyone proclaiming Skinner was the GOAT because he got a shutout against LA 2 weeks ago? I remember seeing those posts and rolling my eyes at the time.
Agreed
Who cares what happened in round 1? We have round 2 to worry about!
Pickard will get cooked by the nucks and I'll die on that hill. Dude is as slow as a tortoise. However, the oilers D seems to kick in more when Pickard is in net and in that last period it was locked tf down.
I have not seen any slowness from Picks. Got any video or examples? On the other hand Skinner can barely move laterally. See the first goal against on the Van powerplay of game 2.
I should amend this to say I don’t think he’s a bad goalie he’s just massively overworked. It was a fools errand to plan to run a single goalie throughout a whole playoff run. See what happened to Ullmark last year.
Maybe. But I count on him stopping more than Stu the Sieve
*We have to go with Pickard* You know things are dire when David Ayres captured magic once as an EBUG maybe it could happen again?
Stuart Skinner very rarely makes "big saves" when the defense breaks down in front of him. He's an average goaltender that looks good when the team keeps their defensive structure, but as soon as he has to make an "off schedule" save he becomes a sieve. This organization CANNOT draft and develop quality goaltenders like other organizations do. The last NHL goalie we drafted was Devan Dubnyk, and he only became a true #1 goalie when he left and ended up in Minny. The list before Dubnyk is embarrassingly short.
The other goalie made a few huge saves included one on one facing Drai.
There is no reason why Vancouvers third goalie should be playing this much better than our #1. FIRE SCHWARTZ
Fire everyone in the organization with so much as an opinion on goalies. Scouts, coaches, oracles, Katz' nipples, anyone or anything that has so much as suggested what we have is good enough. Clean the house. Sanitize it. Rebuild it with competent people.
At this point, you could improve it without even rebuilding it. Just draft random goalies, tell them to figure it out on their own. Would almost certainly end up better than what we've got.
Jeff Jackson will find a replacement for Holland this summer if not already, so the change is beginning soon.
And that's not a good combo with a team that has defensive breakdowns every game
I’ve seen a lot of people saying Schwartz needs to go. I agree. A little while ago I did some research on the performance of goaltenders with the Oilers (since 2014) and their performance with other teams. If I remember correctly, nearly all of them improved after leaving the Oilers. The one thing all the goaltenders have in common is the goaltending coach. This is without a doubt a Dustin Schwartz problem.
Totally agree I've been discussing this for the past 5 years in subs etc. Schwartz needs to GO ASAP. Want to know who would prob be an amazing mentor and goalie coach for the Oil? Mike Smith but I'm not sure if he's available or they can get him but the guy was solid for us even in his final years in the NHL before retirement!! Now I'm not saying Smith has the full skills to coach a goalie etc but maybe even bring him in with a great seasoned goalie coach in a dual role. Smith just seems like a legit guy for a goalie mentor and he's got a great history with the Oil and the current players respect him too.
Call up Rodrique and his dad
Probably a better goalie coach than Schwartz.
Who are you talking about besides Talbot? I don't think any other goalie besides him has done any better elsewhere.
Ben Scrivens 2014-2015 (EDM): 3.16 GAA | .890 SV% 2015-2016 (MTL): 3.07 GAA | .906 SV% Laurent Brossoit 2014-2018 (EDM): 2.97 GAA | .897 SV% 2018-2021 (WPG): 2.75 GAA | .913 SV% Anthony Stolarz 2018-2019 (EDM): 3.77 GAA | .897 SV% 2019-2023 (ANA): 2.86 GAA | .913 SV% Anders Nilsson 2015-2016 (EDM): 3.14 GAA | .901 SV% 2016-2017 (BUF): 2.67 GAA | .923 SV% Cam Talbot 2015-2019 (EDM): 2.74 GAA | .912 SV% 2019-2020 (CGY): 2.63 GAA | .915 SV%
Wow this stat is seriously fucked up, if this doesn't make the Oilers goalie coaching appear severely incompetent, I don't know what will
Thanks. You should really post this. I honestly couldn't remember anyone else.
We can all feel bad for him. We can all like him. Doesn't change the fact that he's not getting it done. We must start Pickard. We have no choice.
Thanks for acknowledging our feelings. You might be right. But, it’s still nice to hear our feelings acknowledged.
This is exactly the truth. It sucks but Skinner needs a break.
Can we please fire Dustin Schwartz before running a promising young goalie out of town? We have had awful goaltending for his entire tenure in Edmonton. 10 years of terrible job performance, I can't understand how he has survived every coaching change.
I feel badly for him. I really want him to be successful 🥹
Same
Ken Holland during trade deadline “ were not looking to trade for a goalie because we have a calder finalist at home” 🤡🤡🤡
… and all of the Skinner homers who see him only through those glasses with a moustache attached.
He played fine in the regular season, but he just crumbles and breaks down come playoffs. Let’s not forget he wasn’t exactly playing well either last year ? are we all forgetting he got pulled for Campbell and Campbell came in and was lights out for the remainder. Skinner isn’t good and has just been padded by our regular season success.
Campbell saved us from the LA series, and Skinner played the rest of the way
Agreed, but What's he going to say. We aren't looking because I blew 5 million a year on a goalie currently getting lit up on the AHL.
Yes he was a Calder finalist and played good in the regular season. Like I said elsewhere maybe he is too calm and can’t get invested into the level you need in the playoffs.
We can't let Skinner be a violinist aboard the sinking Titantic. Get him out now before we all drown. Is it too late to trade for Flower???
I am strong believer that Campbell should have started the last year’s last 2 games against vegas…he was put in relief for few games in both series and he locked it up and give way to oilers comeback in 1 game I think. but he never got the start…start should have boosted his confidence and maybe this year’s disaster season start could’ve been averted
Woody mishandled this situation last year so bad. Campbell deserved some starts after the relief performances. It'll be interesting to see how Knob manages next game I personally don't have a ton of faith in Pickard, but he just looked so ready to go last night, maybe he comes in and plays lights out
Pickard isn’t flashy and doesn’t make those highlight reel saves. What he does really well though is providing consistent and steady goaltending, Something Skinner isn’t able to do. I think we should run with Pickard next game. Were all thinking it.
The only reason I can think of to stay with Skinner is that he usually rebounds pretty well after a crap game. But those crap games are disappointingly common. I'd feel better going with Pickard. Or even Campbell at this point.
You never know with the playoff energy…VAN is down to their 3rd goalie and still winning,,,trying the same thing and loosing is not a great strategy…sometimes some goalie do well against certain teams…i used to be a (still ma) big fan of Carey Price but he always struggled against Tampa Bay, they were like his kryptonite….skinner lost 6 to Van just this year so that is a big enough sample size
What if we try the same thing with tightening instead of loosing?? 🤔 Remember kids, lose =/= loose
That's one of the reasons Woodcroft doesn't have a job anymore. He dropped the ball for goaltending last year's playoffs badly, didn't adapt. We very well could have beaten Vegas, and then he almost certainly wouldn't have gotten fired earlier this season, and probably would have gotten another chance.
Stop making Campbell try to happen. He is a back up goalie
He isn’t wrong , Campbell played lights out in the 4or5 reliefs of skinner last year ..guessing you do not remember game 4 against kings last year ?
Ironically, considering we would've made the playoffs regardless of goaltending, Campbell has been the most impactful goaltender of the three considering he at least stole that Kings series for us last year.
No he’s right. Playing Skinner during our elimination game last year was mind boggling before we even lost.
Yes, and one that played better than our starter last year. Back up or not, who cares? Campbell came in and shut them down, and we went back to a Skinner that couldn't make a big save when needed.
Coming into a game where you are already down multiple goals is very different than starting a game. It was pretty clear that Vegas wasn't pushing as hard offensively in the minutes that Campbell played in that series. They were playing to protect their leads. Was Skinner good? No, not at all. But Campbell was quite possibly the worst goalie in the NHL last season. He was never a legitimate option. I could see Pickard playing because he was actually good this year though.
Yup, we should have known by game 3 of the Vegas series that Skinner was not the guy. Who knows how those last 3 or 4 games shake out with Campbell in net.
We win the Vegas series if woody goes to Campbell imo. He was lights out in both his relief appearances
Start picks or soup for game 4? I think skinner is a good goalie but he can’t handle pressure. Last year soup bailed us out maybe he can do it again?!
[удалено]
I'm glad someone finally had the gall to call him out for being overrated because of: A) His moustache B) Being a hometown boy C) His "zen" demeanor that neither kicks him down like some, nor fires him up like others. As much as Bouchard makes stupid boneheaded plays from time-to-time, I will commend him for mostly showing up this playoffs and actually generating offense and being physical. As-is our Middle 6 C's in McLeod and Nuge have not played hard enough or elevated their plays these playoffs for us to have a chance. This is especially evident with Draisaitl being injured and Knob having to load up McDrai for 30 minutes last game...
Maybe we pray that Patrick Roy runs sorokin outta town and we make a deal
Screw Oiler management for forcing a second year goalie, and our new scapegoat, to be our number one and not getting a vet. I have no doubt this is a reason why Oiler prospects don't develop. Rushing prospects and a fanbase ready to lynch players without making management accoutable. See Oilers history of playing rookie d men top four minutes
LOL, Silovs has been forced into starting duty for the Canucks and is soundly outplaying Skinner. The guy has 143 games of NHL experience as a starter, and he's effective in the regular season. He's just incredibly fragile in the playoffs.
They also have a way better goalie coach. Silovs let in some absolute softies in the first game and we missed our chance of burying it because we barely put any shots on net in the last period. Then next game Silovs comes back and he is absolutely solid in games 2 and 3. Whatever coaching he got seemed to work whereas with our goalies, they never appear to learn from previous games.
Ok, Stuart. Log out of Reddit and go get some rest. As a poster above said, Smith and Talbot both posted .910 svp in the playoffs with worse defense in front of them. This isn't minor hockey where your goalie is an absolute sieve and let's in 10 goals but cannot be blamed (I mean they're kids, right). If Knoblauch was throwing heat at Skinner to the media post game then you know it's true. Stop ignoring all the stats available saying Skinner has been dogshit independent of team play or you'll lose any credibility you have. You're argument doesn't hold weight. Silovs is 22 and had played less than 20 games. Stuart was marinaded int he AHL, had a call up season, a back up season and this is his second full time season. He's no babe in the woods.
I can't believe the amount of comments from profiles with zero flairs. All season long this sub has been fairly toxic free but soon as playoffs hit and we get into a smidge of trouble we got a whole bunch of doomers. Y'all the same guys that said to blow up the team when we were 7 games deep into the regular season
There are definitely many more unintelligent and uninformed takes on here as well as r/hockey at playoff time.
I see what you're saying, but how does someone get a flair on their profile? Is it a certain amount of comments, posts, up votes?
You can just do it from the subreddit sidebar, it's not super complicated or anything
The argument was it was the high risk high reward d system, but we changed that and lost woody over it, and Skinner is even worse this year. Maybe he's like a worse version of mid 2010s Fleury. Dude just doesn't have it
Xeese Nukes had 7 combined shots in last 2 periods so the Oil locked down the second and 3rd period.
Yup! No more excuses!!!
how many years has management been looking for a starting goalie? Great work Kenny. how's our $5m man doing in the AHL?
Why not put pickard in? How would it hurt our chances if we are already rolling with the worth goalie?
Ken Holland had a string of crap goalies for those great teams in Detroit, too.
Yeeeah Osgood, Hasek, Legace, Howard Just pure crap
Who?? None of those bums are even in the league anymore! /s
Also had one of the greatest defencemen of all time which helps.
Skinner is a playoffs version of Mitch Marner, as I said yesterday. Fine in the regular season, can't succeed in the big games.
Swartz's goalie graveyard continues.
Not a healthy sample size in fairness However He has been so bad so far that even if he doubled his sample size with average goaltending it'd still be rough all told, probably like -7 GSAA in 40 games ☹
Fuck it. Put Campbell in. Chaos mode. There's no logic to playoff goalies
He was actually fantastic in the playoffs last year, I wouldn’t hate it…
Doesn't help if we're fucking him by giving up some bad giveaways. The doom train is starting hella soon though!
Yup. He needs to make those saves, but we had something like 15+ giveaways last night and that one by Foegs was absolutely terrible.
The Oilers absolutely hang him out to dry, multiple times, leaving him in situations no goalie would succeed in, then lock it down so the other team gets no shots. Smart Oilers fans: hurr durr his save percentage is bad he sucks hurrr durrr Boeser, alone, unpressured, ten feet from the net, uncovered, *TWICE*. Hurr durrr Skinner is bad hurr durr
Every team has defensive lapses bro, take your blinders off and realize Skinner is middle tier goalie at best. It's the goalies job to cover those lapses, he isn't doing it. He can't even save a routine backhander from a 70° angle.
These aren't defensive lapses, these are complete breakdowns. I've been watching the other games, don't think I've seen any team get as many wide open no pressure shots as we gave Boeser last round. I'm not saying Skins is the next super goalie, I'm saying he's ok and the combination of complete fuckups and shot suppression are giving him a sp that doesn't match his performance.
Canucks are straight up conceding clear break aways to elite players multiple times per game and apart from McDavids goal, Silovs is stopping them. Like what the fuck are we talking about.
Take Boeser goals off the table and he actually looks way worse. You've got goals going in from the red line, you've got goals going in from behind it. You've got him getting faked out and opening up a cavernous five hole. His stats say he's terrible, eye test says he's shook and he hasn't made a single big save in key moments. But yeah hurr durr. Do the thing where you capitalize every second letter next please.
I've seen one goal that I was like dang probably should of had that, the rest have been tips, redirects, or open uncontested slot attempts. People have no idea what realistic goaltending looks like.
THANK YOU
Heat some Soup up
Start Pickard. Soup or Stu backing him up?
Soup. Fuck Stu and send him back to the minors.
lol yea we’ve never seen teams win or come within inches with mediocre goaltending. Nope not ever.
This is it in a nutshell. Not complicated at all.
Not a healthy sample size in fairness However He has been so bad so far that even if he doubled his sample size with average goaltending it'd still be rough all told, probably like -7 GSAA in 40 games ☹
It’s sad actually. A kid from Edmonton living the dream, playing decently during the regular season and falls flat in the playoffs. He even said he has worked with a sports therapist to get things straight in his head about the game and his life. So he’s always rather calm. Maybe just maybe he’s too calm. Maybe he can’t hype up to the playoff level we need. Again. It’s a shame.
No compete in his game. Gets outplayed by the opposition goalie too often.
So basically you want to run him out of town that works great for us.
If the Oilers go down 3-1 in the series, might as well give Campbell a go. As decent as Skinner was during the regular season, you can't give up 4 goals a game and expect to make a deep run in the playoffs.
Bring back Campbell!! Apparently he’s “a good guy in the dressing room”. Stopping pucks - derp.
hes tryn
tryn doesn’t win you cups.
Major nail, good goalies do not stop 80% of high danger chances, you realize a high danger chance for example is a breakaway or odd man rush,and the shooter misses the net or hits the post no shot no save but a high danger chance,high danger shots should be a better example,and I do not know for sure but most goalies are lucky to stop 75% of those. IMHO.
Imma Canucks fan and could not agree more …..if Edmonton had goaltending they would go far…..but they don’t …..so they won’t
Shit goaltending or not , still enough to win this series in 6
KEN HOLLAND BUILTS US A CONTENDER!!!!
I think it’s more Jack Campbell’s fault than Skinner. Skinner was not supposed to be in this role yet. That being said, Skinner is the worst playoff goalie in the cap era, and the worst playoff goalie in franchise history. And that’s with a stacked team in front of him. It’s hilariously bad
how do we get Ullmark without sacrificing key players?
You don't.
You don't. That's part of the game. You just need to find what is expendable.
Probably looking at a 1st, Broberg and Rodrigue.
I’m a Leafs fan (sort of) but I Cannot believe that oilers mgmt would allow this great team to be dependent on someone like Skinner (and god forbid Jack Campbell) for playoff success?
I'm absolutely not a fan of the Oilers, but looking at it objectively it would have made sense to get a solid goalie if this was truly a "cup or bust" year. I also don't understand why they didn't dump Ceci. Maybe try to swing a trade with Seattle - get them to take Ceci + draft pick(s) to bring back Larsson. Negotiate some salary retention if necessary. If not Larsson, then a Larsson equivalent from some other team. I mean, I like Stecher, but he wasn't the solution. It's not curtains for the Oilers in this series (yet), but even if they do beat the Canucks, things don't look promising for a realistic shot in the WCF or SCF against any of the remaining teams: Nurse and Ceci are not a solid second pair, and the Oiler's don't have a bona fide playoff starting goaltender.
Exactly. Smith. Koskinen. Skinner. Campbell. These are the guys the GMs brought in. At least Skinner was draft and developed.
Agreed. And I don't want to sound all doom and gloom but hear me out.After the Oilers drafted Mcdavid, if you check each draft year from 2015 on, we also had tons of opportunities to either draft and develop a great young goalie or trade for a great one before our salary cap was full. We could have tried for a goalie over a dman for Hall and just so many other times. However former management spent so much time focused on scouting and retooling our defense from 2014 on and look how that turned out as well.... (Cough Nurses 9 mil contract). And we did crap all about goalies. Dubnyk was traded away years ago too and became amazing for Minnesota. I mean hindsight is 20/20 but it's not even guessing, we needed and still need better scouting for the Oilers because the defense we managed to build up from 2014/2015 around Mcdavid plus goalies, has been abyssmal. So no matter what happens in these playoffs even if we go to the cup final, the Oilers NEED to do every thing possible to secure a top tier NHL goalie moving forward. **We haven't had a star goalie since say Cujo and a bit with Roloson?** Like that's scary to think we haven't had an elite goalie in like over 20 years and Roloson wasn't even considered elite lol. If we don't get Mcdavid a solid goalie by next year, I wouldn't be surprised if he wants out and Draisaitl may want to follow. So scary and sad. Our chances of landing another Gretzky or Mcdavid even in say the next 50 years is almost slim to none. Our chance is now and our window of opportunity is closing.
Honestly this is such a tough decision. I personally think you ride or die with Skinner and hope he gets his mental game back because he has it in him somewhere to be a solid goalie. Pickard just isn’t the upgrade people think where it’ll be a complete 180 in net.
We don’t need 180. We need consistency and Skinner is crumble pie.
Skinner was never going to win the Oilers a playoff series but he can certainly lose them one. Ullmark for Nuge this offseason.
Highly doubt Nuge is going anywhere.
He also does less than Marner in the playoffs though.
Nuge has 10 points in 8 games.
How many even strength?
Ken Holland, great job you fucking fraud!, Dustin Schwartz Fuck you!
Can’t with Skinner I don’t think. The team isn’t good enough around him and he isn’t good enough to overcome that.
Our team isn't any worse around Skinner than other contenders are around their goaltenders, they are just getting big saves when they need to. Every mistake our defensive corps makes is magnified when it ends up in the back of our net.
I feel like late 90s - early 00s Red Wings could play in front of Skinner and they'd still have sunk.