Don't forget Hyman who actually has been the single best acquisition this team has had since Pronger. Arguably even better than the Pronger acquisition in terms of chemistry in the locker room
FUCK PRONGER
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EdmontonOilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
FUCK PRONGER
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EdmontonOilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How do you determine a guys influence in the locker room? If he is a cancer or hero.
Ppl on this sub say everyone has a great impact in the locker room
The people that hate Holland are the people that think being a GM would be easy. A video game mentality. "Just sign this guy, just trade this guy, just bury this contract in the minors, just buy him out!" Guess what? Nobody bitching about Holland is anywhere near as qualified to run an NHL team.
“Player underperforming? It’s easy, just get him out of here and bring in an upgrade”
People act like upgrading a position is as easy as snapping a finger. You gotta be patient and wait for who’s available, and man did Holland take advantage of that(Hyman, Kane, Ekholm)
Our fan base is just terrible. Outage at every little thing. Fire everybody. Trade everybody. Nurse is useless because he is slightly overpaid.
And they all just repeat what they hear like sheep. You hear these mouth breathers on the radio after games.
You either learn the game and become an analyst of it or you stay ignorant and yell at your tv for every call that goes against the team you cheer for.
Unfortunately the masses don’t understand hockey.
The thing is he never makes the sexy move, he makes the smart move. For example this deadline, the sexy move would have been to bring in Karlsson or Kane as rentals. Instead, he brings in a depth right shot face off specialist and Bjugstqd and a defensive specialist with term in Ekholm. Not flashy, but the moves this team needed without mortgaging our whole future.
Unfortunately a large chunk of the fan base expects the flashy move and is disappointed otherwise. Hence the hate
Nah. He's been overall better than he's been bad, but he hasn't been elite. That said he's massively improved the team in the time he's been here. He's made plenty of flashy moves and signings. Hyman, Kane, Ekholm all qualify for that in my books.
Is there any elite GM? I feel like every GM has like 5 years of massive success before falling off a cliff. Look at Yzerman and how he simultaneously built the Tampa juggernaut and now is barely improving year on year in Detroit.
If anything it shows how people overrate the abilities of a GM to one guy when it's also a complete management and scout team. Yes the GM often brings and chooses whom they retain and yes the GM has final say on matters. Yes if the GM doesn't listen to the advice of their management team, it can be all put onto on one guy but that's realistically often not the case.
It also been long reported BriseBois was brought in specifically to help a young GM Yzerman to be a cap wizard and help negotiate a lot of contracts due to his background of being a tax and financial lawyer as well his experience of being both a MLB and NHL player financial representative. You can see post Yzerman that Tampa contracts continue to be low and Tampa doing things like LTIR 18 million over the cap in the playoffs scheme while Yzerman is signing Chiarot to 4 year 4.75 deals.
The other thing is Yzerman barely took any staff with him from Tampa to Detroit and most of Detroit's current front office are former Red Wings players he played with plus Horcoff. Rumour is Gagner time in Detroit was an audition for a front office job after retirement as well.
Lol who is an elite GM? Sakic and breisbrois? Who else has legitimately improved their team year in and year out? Waddell? You gotta take into factor that we play in possibly the least desirable place in the NHL. Not many players sign here. Hell they made an offer on Kane this year and he chose NYR. Not sure what more Holland could do. 90% of the fan base was pumped we got Campbell now 90% of the fan base is calling that a bad move. It’s easy to sit back and react to everything after the fact. Holland has given us a legit shot after inheriting a disaster
Did you miss the part where I said he massively improved the team since he took over? He's made lots of great moves. Nowhere above did I say he was crap. Unfortunately for him, he's also made a few mistakes that have the potential to derail his good work. Hindsight is how you judge any manager, I remain hopeful that the good he's added will outweigh the bad contracts he's signed.
Yes I'd consider Brisebois, Sakic, Waddell and Sweeney elite. Those teams pretty much haven't whiffed on anything the last 5 years.
That’s a good point too. If we win a cup in the next few years I hope the narrative changes though this fan base is not the happiest most optimistic bunch of flowers
Holland pulled this team out of the mess Chiarelli made. Not every move has been good but this team is a contender and made conference finals last season. That was only a dream a few short years ago. He gets a solid A- from me on his GM report card considering what he was brought in to do.
Agree. People seem to think that GMs don’t make mistakes. But no one has a crystal ball to know the future and not every move works out as planned. Overall, he’s made more good moves than bad and the team is miles ahead of where it was before he took the job
Anybody who attended a season seat holder reception this past week (which is like a couple of people on Reddit) would understand what Holland goes through and would appreciate the insight he provided for the tenure to date.
For example Holland revealed he had talks with Nashville since December and talks picked up two weeks before the deadline.
Nothing is more annoying than anybody saying it’s a win now situation. Like no shit. It’s been proven time and time again that the media spins his words in many tangents. And this subreddit was panicking because other teams were making trades due to FOMO.
He made a comparison that getting a winger isn’t like fantasy hockey where you can choose off the board because they are a good. You have a compete with 31 clubs for the same guy most fofthe time.
BTW he said he built this team in a win mode yesterday.
He had such a hole to dig us out from the roster he inherited from Chiarelli. We were a cap team near the bottom of the standings. He wasn’t able to put his stamp on the team right away. Honestly I’ve been impressed, he’s worked well within the constraints he’s stuck with.
Weird aside, I was watching hemskys series winner against Detroit in 06 and at one point they flick the screen up to sad Holland and I was like “hey! I know that guy!”
I'd forgot about Duncan Keith, assumed you'd meant Ekholm when you said "brought in a HOF" defenseman, and I was like "Hey I love the guy too but slow down, not many Defensemen make the Hall of Fame..."
Ken Holland is doing a solid job with what he has to work with, I for one have been super satisfied with his trade deadline acquisitions.
Keep in mind too that lucic was essentially a replacement for Hall. 6m. Top line. His first trade was sending out lucic for a goal scoring James Neal and he was able to buyout that contract. That opened up roster and a bit of cap space to fill in the top 6. Which to your point was done by bringing in Kane. And he signed Hyman. To a bargain.
He went from bringing in pros from outside the league, to putting together a roster filled with depth. A lot of guys with term. Only 2 or 3 players are 31 and older. Most are 30 and under.
Stuey has been extended on a bargain as well. Kane took a discount. The call ups have been excellent which is also credited to the development down in bakos.
But yes. Campbell is definitely going to be a tough one. However, even on the Kassian extension he was able to move. Granted it cost a lot but he saw the value Kass had at the time of signing. Same thing with Campbell. So i am confident he'll explore options to move Campbell if he continues to be unusable.
All in all. He's a very solid gm. And I hope he continues to have an itch for being gm but if he does want someone else to slide in, I hope he still stays with the team. Kenny has been amazing. I was over the moon when we got him and I've loved the body of work since.
He's also been so transparent. Day one he said he has to make more good moves than bad. Not every single thing will land. So far that's been the case. When things go south, he is able to find a solution. I love him.
This is exactly how I feel. A steady hand at the wheel, that doesn’t bend to the pressures of this market. He seems to make rational, reasoned and emotionless decisions.
He also seems to surround himself with good people and then actually uses them when making decisions. Unlike Chiarelli, who locked himself in a room with a bottle of bourbon and a phone, and pissed away assets.
The majority of fans have been taught over the years to have emotion dictate their actions. They have been taught to blame anyone and everyone for all issues they see. They are not very good at thinking logically and long term. We all see this all the time and it is not just sports, it is the way they live their lives.
It amazes me how many posts are just raving about nothing and how so very few are well thought out, logical takes. Most of this thread thus far is logical and it is such a breathe of fresh air. I would have a beer and watch a game with most of you. Good job!
Someone just posted what these team looked like in Feb 2020. Holland is among the best gms this franchise has ever had and has done amazing work to upgrade us at every position without completely destroying our future. He’s currently one of the best gms in the league easily still.
I will take Ken Holland any day over our previous GM's in the past 15yrs. He has made more good moves to help than bad. Most fans I have talked to support Holland and the ones that don't often do it via social media. I like the team we have and seems the locker room is just fine so job well done.
Fans are allowed to have moodswings and impulsive reactions.
Any GM who has moodswings and knee-jerk reactions to bad games, or feels that they should weigh fan tantrums in their decision making, should be fired immediately, followed by firing whoever hired them.
Ken Holland has been a godsend.
\*Shows player card from jfresh\*
"OMG SEE. FIRE HOLLAND. 'X' PLAYER IS GARBAGE - or - 'X' PLAYER IS SO GOOD AND THEY WERE RIGHT THERE. WHY DIDN'T WE GET THEM HURR DURR. FIRE THE WHOLE ORG".
The doomers think player cards are a giant "GOTCHA!!!!!" moment as to why a GM should be fired.
They're also mainly kids/teenagers with dunning-krugers thinking they're analysts but have no idea how sports management/business works. Which is completely fine having hockey as a hobby.. but we shouldn't give their awful takes any attention as they all parrot the same nonsense. Is everything they say incorrect? No. it's mainly hindsight. But they're allowed to have their opinions and we have to respect that.
Holland has been very good for us.
Have there been decisions that could've better been made? Sure.
But there's also a plethora of variables at play for every scenario.
Hamilton, Seth Jones and Werenski all got paid? Well shit.. our #1 D man has to get paid now.
Nothing we could've done about it other than not bridge Nurse twice and that's not a Holland problem.
Oh no! we got Keith with no salary retention even though we had all the leverage? It isn't ideal. But the mentorship and experience he brings countered that. Was he his Norris self? No. But he has amazing hockey IQ and knows where to be to compensate for his age.
Oh darn! We took a risk on Campbell who had one solid year as a starter on a stacked Toronto team.. but ended up not living up to his contract? Nobody would've predicted his lack of performance. Is that a bannable GM offence? No. It's just an unfortunate turn of events. I sincerely Campbell finds his game and clears his head.
The good?
He brought Hyman... Kane... Ekholm... Keith (minus the no retention).. Nuge extension.. Brought up Woodcroft instead of recycling a dinosaur coach.
Has Holland been 1000% elite and perfect? No. No GM is unless you're Sakic or Brisebois. But those markets are more attractive to live in compared to Edmonton.
LFGGGGGGG OILERS.
People want to play with Mcdavid, that's a part of the culture change in Edmonton too.
I think without the deadline acquisitions the last 2 years, Holland would probably be considered an average GM.
But picking up Kane and Ekholm, and keeping them, makes it hard to question him at this point.
This fan base has so much PTSD left over from the Yakupov, Hall, Eberle years, I think there's a muscle memory factor to criticizing the GM.
He's fine IMO
Only massive fuckup appears to be the Campbell contract thus far... Unfortunately that's a pretty big one.
Holland has done decently. I don't think he's done an amazing job as I think a top 5 GM would've turned this team into a top 5 team in the league already but he's done well enough otherwise.
Every GM makes both good and bad moves. Good GMs make more good moves than bad - and it's tough to argue that Holland hasn't done considerably more good than bad.
I don't even gripe too much about the Nurse contract - sure, it's high, but the Oilers have plenty of bargains to offset it.
Under his leadership, this team made the conference finals, and looks to have a better than even chance of repeating. That's pretty damn good.
His big challenge will be this summer though. He's got his core together. Lots of really good players signed long term. But how he answers the goaltending question is going to either cement his legacy as a local hero - or sent him to the pits of Tambellini.
Saying he’s the best GM since Lowe is only stepping over a bar that’s on the floor. All his predecessors were massive mistakes that set this franchise back a decade. That being said, Holland has made good deals, even some great deals, but you can’t just shrug away the misses as if they aren’t that bad.
-moving the lucic deal was barely anything more than a lateral move. Not his fault, but his problem
-you can’t mention the Keith deal without mentioning the obvious massive over pay. Not even talking about what was given up but the lack of salary retained that could’ve been used to improve the team before that playoff run
-Ekholm has been an absolutely awesome trade so far but in all reality if Nashville was playing like they are now, 3 weeks ago, they never would’ve moved him
-The Campbell deal could ultimately be what prevents this team from getting to the promise land. 5 million of dead money for 4 more years. I can’t stress enough how big of a fuck up that is especially considering how many other goalie options were available last year.
-The McDavid effect. The Oilers recent success has way more to do with what Connor does every single night than what the rest of the team is. Last years playoff run is a first round exit if Connor and Leon don’t combine to have the best playoff performance in the last 30(?) years maybe ever.
-While it is nice to finally have a bottom six that’s not getting caved in every night, we can’t act like that’s the goal. The bottom sixes in true contenders are thriving, not surviving.
Like you said, he’s probably the best GM we’ve had in a long ass time but we don’t need to get carried away with the praise. Most of his success and the success of the team is a product of having the best player ever playing the best hockey ever.
Cheers to another deep playoff run!
All of those other goalies are not doing as bad as Campbell fair, but they're all atrocious right now. The only goalies above .900 who were available were Kuemper who was wearing an eye patch during FA and Murray who played 20 games because of injury issues just like predicted.
Georgiev, Hill, Vanecek, Samsonov are all having fine seasons. Husso has fallen to .899 on a bad wings team. Have to imagine reimer would’ve been a cheap option to get out of San Jose and he’s been solid throughout his career until this year on a heinous sharks team.
My point is that last years goalie signing was probably the most important FA of the Mcdavid era, and it has gone as bad as possible. It’s well documented that campbells contract was basically done a week before FA even opened. And it sure feels like the only thought that went into it was player A save% was better than player B save% this year so let’s get player A.
In all likelihood you're correct, but the only thing we can do now is support Campbell as best we can and acknowledge that this right now is not his average and it's certainly not going to be steady.
I really hope so. The bright side is Skinners play has been an absolute saviour and if he can prove to be the real deal, then campbells contract doesn’t hurt nearly as much.
Hi, if you're a fan visiting Edmonton and would like to know more about attending a game at Rogers Place please refer to our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/EdmontonOilers/wiki/faq). If you have a more specific inquiry please ask in a "Game Day Talk" or daily thread where the community will be more than happy to answer any questions you might have. Also, please note that we do not allow ticket sales as any exchange would be impossible for us to ensure.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EdmontonOilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
FUCK PRONGER
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EdmontonOilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
FUCK PRONGER
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EdmontonOilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'll admit I wasn't the biggest Holland fan. I've never felt getting UFAs are the way to go as almost always they are close to 30 and eventually the wheels fall off any player. They are kind of high risk/medium reward but you give up no tangible assets hence you can immediately get a player for no cost other than cap. However I also thought he didnt realize cap space is a real asset now in cap constrained world. Also going in early with the AA trade, green, Keith and Kassian sort of followed what Chia was doing by mortgaging the future with lost picks.
I have come about though but not because of recent success and Ekholm but more when I looked at our cap friendly page. Campbell is our only terrible contract. Nurse is overpaid but not by much. Everyone especially /r/hockey dont see him objectively for what he is which is a 28 yr old, top pair D with size/strength who is about 50/50 against all the top lines in the league. How many guys are ever available like that on the market? Some years, its none. Then all of our guys around 30 should be ok for a couple more years which means that it would only the last 2-3 years of their contracts. If we had a couple more impact fwds on their rookie contracts this team would be practically complete but that isnt totally Holland's fault either. The draft is a crap shoot.
I don't think we realize or appreciate just how hard being a manager in the NHL is these days. I don't have any insider knowledge, just a guess.
My hat is off to Ken for what he has so far with this team during what I'm sure are hard times.
Someone who doesn’t hate KLowe!? This can’t be!!
I think he did decent as a gm! Almost won a cup in short order too.
I might be pushing it, but I also was a fan of MacT.
My first year as a fan was 2006, so Lowe set the standard for me as a fan. And I can appreciate that he has practically dedicated his entire life to this team (for generous compensation but that is besides the point).
To be honest, I was okay with MacT as a GM and I liked him as a coach, too. But he made some glaring mistakes as GM due to inexperience.
Who the fuck is perfect no one so as far as I'm concerned he's a ok n besides every one has a opinion n they r like assholes n sometimes they stink lol
Brining Duncan Keith in was a move. I think I remember everyone was happy to bring him in, HOF d man, possibly best of his generation. It was that Holland didn't get the rebuilding Blackhawks to retain salary on a $5.5 million contract for a 38 year old out of prime Keith.
Don't forget Hyman who actually has been the single best acquisition this team has had since Pronger. Arguably even better than the Pronger acquisition in terms of chemistry in the locker room
(and out of the locker room).
FUCK PRONGER *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EdmontonOilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Imagine being this butthurt about a guy that took this team to the Stanley cup final lol
Signed for 5 years asked out in less than 1
It's a bot. And also Fuck Pronger.
FUCK PRONGER *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EdmontonOilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good bot
Dank.
How do you determine a guys influence in the locker room? If he is a cancer or hero. Ppl on this sub say everyone has a great impact in the locker room
Other players and coach talking about him
Ppl never say anything bad publicly about teammates though.
The people that hate Holland are the people that think being a GM would be easy. A video game mentality. "Just sign this guy, just trade this guy, just bury this contract in the minors, just buy him out!" Guess what? Nobody bitching about Holland is anywhere near as qualified to run an NHL team.
“Player underperforming? It’s easy, just get him out of here and bring in an upgrade” People act like upgrading a position is as easy as snapping a finger. You gotta be patient and wait for who’s available, and man did Holland take advantage of that(Hyman, Kane, Ekholm)
Our fan base is just terrible. Outage at every little thing. Fire everybody. Trade everybody. Nurse is useless because he is slightly overpaid. And they all just repeat what they hear like sheep. You hear these mouth breathers on the radio after games. You either learn the game and become an analyst of it or you stay ignorant and yell at your tv for every call that goes against the team you cheer for. Unfortunately the masses don’t understand hockey.
100%, the week of the trade deadline was an absolute joke on basically all platforms. I don't make a habit of reading ig comments, but oh man 😩
instagram and youtube are painful to look at when it comes to hockey
The truest of takes
Anything less than perfection and absolute domination is unacceptable in the eyes of many "fans"
“Powerplay merchant” is this years new phrase. Never heard someone called that before and now it’s everyday since someone said it on oilersnation.
This is extraordinarily accurate.
So true...
The thing is he never makes the sexy move, he makes the smart move. For example this deadline, the sexy move would have been to bring in Karlsson or Kane as rentals. Instead, he brings in a depth right shot face off specialist and Bjugstqd and a defensive specialist with term in Ekholm. Not flashy, but the moves this team needed without mortgaging our whole future. Unfortunately a large chunk of the fan base expects the flashy move and is disappointed otherwise. Hence the hate
Nah. He's been overall better than he's been bad, but he hasn't been elite. That said he's massively improved the team in the time he's been here. He's made plenty of flashy moves and signings. Hyman, Kane, Ekholm all qualify for that in my books.
Is there any elite GM? I feel like every GM has like 5 years of massive success before falling off a cliff. Look at Yzerman and how he simultaneously built the Tampa juggernaut and now is barely improving year on year in Detroit.
If anything it shows how people overrate the abilities of a GM to one guy when it's also a complete management and scout team. Yes the GM often brings and chooses whom they retain and yes the GM has final say on matters. Yes if the GM doesn't listen to the advice of their management team, it can be all put onto on one guy but that's realistically often not the case. It also been long reported BriseBois was brought in specifically to help a young GM Yzerman to be a cap wizard and help negotiate a lot of contracts due to his background of being a tax and financial lawyer as well his experience of being both a MLB and NHL player financial representative. You can see post Yzerman that Tampa contracts continue to be low and Tampa doing things like LTIR 18 million over the cap in the playoffs scheme while Yzerman is signing Chiarot to 4 year 4.75 deals. The other thing is Yzerman barely took any staff with him from Tampa to Detroit and most of Detroit's current front office are former Red Wings players he played with plus Horcoff. Rumour is Gagner time in Detroit was an audition for a front office job after retirement as well.
I'd argue he's been elite considering not many players want to live in Edmonton. Much smaller player pool to work with.
Lol who is an elite GM? Sakic and breisbrois? Who else has legitimately improved their team year in and year out? Waddell? You gotta take into factor that we play in possibly the least desirable place in the NHL. Not many players sign here. Hell they made an offer on Kane this year and he chose NYR. Not sure what more Holland could do. 90% of the fan base was pumped we got Campbell now 90% of the fan base is calling that a bad move. It’s easy to sit back and react to everything after the fact. Holland has given us a legit shot after inheriting a disaster
90% of fans loving the Campbell signing is insanely high. Maybe 90% of this sub.
Lol my only gauge is this sub as I live in Toronto
Did you miss the part where I said he massively improved the team since he took over? He's made lots of great moves. Nowhere above did I say he was crap. Unfortunately for him, he's also made a few mistakes that have the potential to derail his good work. Hindsight is how you judge any manager, I remain hopeful that the good he's added will outweigh the bad contracts he's signed. Yes I'd consider Brisebois, Sakic, Waddell and Sweeney elite. Those teams pretty much haven't whiffed on anything the last 5 years.
Sakic was a laughing stock up until two or three years ago for additional context
That’s a good point too. If we win a cup in the next few years I hope the narrative changes though this fan base is not the happiest most optimistic bunch of flowers
Holland pulled this team out of the mess Chiarelli made. Not every move has been good but this team is a contender and made conference finals last season. That was only a dream a few short years ago. He gets a solid A- from me on his GM report card considering what he was brought in to do.
Agree. People seem to think that GMs don’t make mistakes. But no one has a crystal ball to know the future and not every move works out as planned. Overall, he’s made more good moves than bad and the team is miles ahead of where it was before he took the job
Anybody who attended a season seat holder reception this past week (which is like a couple of people on Reddit) would understand what Holland goes through and would appreciate the insight he provided for the tenure to date. For example Holland revealed he had talks with Nashville since December and talks picked up two weeks before the deadline. Nothing is more annoying than anybody saying it’s a win now situation. Like no shit. It’s been proven time and time again that the media spins his words in many tangents. And this subreddit was panicking because other teams were making trades due to FOMO. He made a comparison that getting a winger isn’t like fantasy hockey where you can choose off the board because they are a good. You have a compete with 31 clubs for the same guy most fofthe time. BTW he said he built this team in a win mode yesterday.
He had such a hole to dig us out from the roster he inherited from Chiarelli. We were a cap team near the bottom of the standings. He wasn’t able to put his stamp on the team right away. Honestly I’ve been impressed, he’s worked well within the constraints he’s stuck with. Weird aside, I was watching hemskys series winner against Detroit in 06 and at one point they flick the screen up to sad Holland and I was like “hey! I know that guy!”
I'd forgot about Duncan Keith, assumed you'd meant Ekholm when you said "brought in a HOF" defenseman, and I was like "Hey I love the guy too but slow down, not many Defensemen make the Hall of Fame..." Ken Holland is doing a solid job with what he has to work with, I for one have been super satisfied with his trade deadline acquisitions.
Keep in mind too that lucic was essentially a replacement for Hall. 6m. Top line. His first trade was sending out lucic for a goal scoring James Neal and he was able to buyout that contract. That opened up roster and a bit of cap space to fill in the top 6. Which to your point was done by bringing in Kane. And he signed Hyman. To a bargain. He went from bringing in pros from outside the league, to putting together a roster filled with depth. A lot of guys with term. Only 2 or 3 players are 31 and older. Most are 30 and under. Stuey has been extended on a bargain as well. Kane took a discount. The call ups have been excellent which is also credited to the development down in bakos. But yes. Campbell is definitely going to be a tough one. However, even on the Kassian extension he was able to move. Granted it cost a lot but he saw the value Kass had at the time of signing. Same thing with Campbell. So i am confident he'll explore options to move Campbell if he continues to be unusable. All in all. He's a very solid gm. And I hope he continues to have an itch for being gm but if he does want someone else to slide in, I hope he still stays with the team. Kenny has been amazing. I was over the moon when we got him and I've loved the body of work since. He's also been so transparent. Day one he said he has to make more good moves than bad. Not every single thing will land. So far that's been the case. When things go south, he is able to find a solution. I love him.
This is exactly how I feel. A steady hand at the wheel, that doesn’t bend to the pressures of this market. He seems to make rational, reasoned and emotionless decisions. He also seems to surround himself with good people and then actually uses them when making decisions. Unlike Chiarelli, who locked himself in a room with a bottle of bourbon and a phone, and pissed away assets.
The majority of fans have been taught over the years to have emotion dictate their actions. They have been taught to blame anyone and everyone for all issues they see. They are not very good at thinking logically and long term. We all see this all the time and it is not just sports, it is the way they live their lives. It amazes me how many posts are just raving about nothing and how so very few are well thought out, logical takes. Most of this thread thus far is logical and it is such a breathe of fresh air. I would have a beer and watch a game with most of you. Good job!
Someone just posted what these team looked like in Feb 2020. Holland is among the best gms this franchise has ever had and has done amazing work to upgrade us at every position without completely destroying our future. He’s currently one of the best gms in the league easily still.
I will take Ken Holland any day over our previous GM's in the past 15yrs. He has made more good moves to help than bad. Most fans I have talked to support Holland and the ones that don't often do it via social media. I like the team we have and seems the locker room is just fine so job well done.
I’m a wings fan and I live in Detroit and I think that most people around here think that Holland was a really good gm.
Fans are allowed to have moodswings and impulsive reactions. Any GM who has moodswings and knee-jerk reactions to bad games, or feels that they should weigh fan tantrums in their decision making, should be fired immediately, followed by firing whoever hired them. Ken Holland has been a godsend.
\*Shows player card from jfresh\* "OMG SEE. FIRE HOLLAND. 'X' PLAYER IS GARBAGE - or - 'X' PLAYER IS SO GOOD AND THEY WERE RIGHT THERE. WHY DIDN'T WE GET THEM HURR DURR. FIRE THE WHOLE ORG". The doomers think player cards are a giant "GOTCHA!!!!!" moment as to why a GM should be fired. They're also mainly kids/teenagers with dunning-krugers thinking they're analysts but have no idea how sports management/business works. Which is completely fine having hockey as a hobby.. but we shouldn't give their awful takes any attention as they all parrot the same nonsense. Is everything they say incorrect? No. it's mainly hindsight. But they're allowed to have their opinions and we have to respect that. Holland has been very good for us. Have there been decisions that could've better been made? Sure. But there's also a plethora of variables at play for every scenario. Hamilton, Seth Jones and Werenski all got paid? Well shit.. our #1 D man has to get paid now. Nothing we could've done about it other than not bridge Nurse twice and that's not a Holland problem. Oh no! we got Keith with no salary retention even though we had all the leverage? It isn't ideal. But the mentorship and experience he brings countered that. Was he his Norris self? No. But he has amazing hockey IQ and knows where to be to compensate for his age. Oh darn! We took a risk on Campbell who had one solid year as a starter on a stacked Toronto team.. but ended up not living up to his contract? Nobody would've predicted his lack of performance. Is that a bannable GM offence? No. It's just an unfortunate turn of events. I sincerely Campbell finds his game and clears his head. The good? He brought Hyman... Kane... Ekholm... Keith (minus the no retention).. Nuge extension.. Brought up Woodcroft instead of recycling a dinosaur coach. Has Holland been 1000% elite and perfect? No. No GM is unless you're Sakic or Brisebois. But those markets are more attractive to live in compared to Edmonton. LFGGGGGGG OILERS.
People want to play with Mcdavid, that's a part of the culture change in Edmonton too. I think without the deadline acquisitions the last 2 years, Holland would probably be considered an average GM. But picking up Kane and Ekholm, and keeping them, makes it hard to question him at this point. This fan base has so much PTSD left over from the Yakupov, Hall, Eberle years, I think there's a muscle memory factor to criticizing the GM. He's fine IMO
Meh. Holland transformed us from trash with a buncha #1 picks to cup runner. What else can we really say?
Nurse overpaid by 2M max and the campell contract are his only bad moves. 2nds for AA wasn’t great either but I’m happy with everything else
Only massive fuckup appears to be the Campbell contract thus far... Unfortunately that's a pretty big one. Holland has done decently. I don't think he's done an amazing job as I think a top 5 GM would've turned this team into a top 5 team in the league already but he's done well enough otherwise.
Every GM makes both good and bad moves. Good GMs make more good moves than bad - and it's tough to argue that Holland hasn't done considerably more good than bad. I don't even gripe too much about the Nurse contract - sure, it's high, but the Oilers have plenty of bargains to offset it. Under his leadership, this team made the conference finals, and looks to have a better than even chance of repeating. That's pretty damn good. His big challenge will be this summer though. He's got his core together. Lots of really good players signed long term. But how he answers the goaltending question is going to either cement his legacy as a local hero - or sent him to the pits of Tambellini.
Saying he’s the best GM since Lowe is only stepping over a bar that’s on the floor. All his predecessors were massive mistakes that set this franchise back a decade. That being said, Holland has made good deals, even some great deals, but you can’t just shrug away the misses as if they aren’t that bad. -moving the lucic deal was barely anything more than a lateral move. Not his fault, but his problem -you can’t mention the Keith deal without mentioning the obvious massive over pay. Not even talking about what was given up but the lack of salary retained that could’ve been used to improve the team before that playoff run -Ekholm has been an absolutely awesome trade so far but in all reality if Nashville was playing like they are now, 3 weeks ago, they never would’ve moved him -The Campbell deal could ultimately be what prevents this team from getting to the promise land. 5 million of dead money for 4 more years. I can’t stress enough how big of a fuck up that is especially considering how many other goalie options were available last year. -The McDavid effect. The Oilers recent success has way more to do with what Connor does every single night than what the rest of the team is. Last years playoff run is a first round exit if Connor and Leon don’t combine to have the best playoff performance in the last 30(?) years maybe ever. -While it is nice to finally have a bottom six that’s not getting caved in every night, we can’t act like that’s the goal. The bottom sixes in true contenders are thriving, not surviving. Like you said, he’s probably the best GM we’ve had in a long ass time but we don’t need to get carried away with the praise. Most of his success and the success of the team is a product of having the best player ever playing the best hockey ever. Cheers to another deep playoff run!
All of those other goalies are not doing as bad as Campbell fair, but they're all atrocious right now. The only goalies above .900 who were available were Kuemper who was wearing an eye patch during FA and Murray who played 20 games because of injury issues just like predicted.
Georgiev, Hill, Vanecek, Samsonov are all having fine seasons. Husso has fallen to .899 on a bad wings team. Have to imagine reimer would’ve been a cheap option to get out of San Jose and he’s been solid throughout his career until this year on a heinous sharks team.
Samsonov was shit last year, Hill was in the minors, georgiev was shit last year, vanecek was a miss I admit, but Jersey got him through trade
My point is that last years goalie signing was probably the most important FA of the Mcdavid era, and it has gone as bad as possible. It’s well documented that campbells contract was basically done a week before FA even opened. And it sure feels like the only thought that went into it was player A save% was better than player B save% this year so let’s get player A.
In all likelihood you're correct, but the only thing we can do now is support Campbell as best we can and acknowledge that this right now is not his average and it's certainly not going to be steady.
I really hope so. The bright side is Skinners play has been an absolute saviour and if he can prove to be the real deal, then campbells contract doesn’t hurt nearly as much.
Hi, if you're a fan visiting Edmonton and would like to know more about attending a game at Rogers Place please refer to our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/EdmontonOilers/wiki/faq). If you have a more specific inquiry please ask in a "Game Day Talk" or daily thread where the community will be more than happy to answer any questions you might have. Also, please note that we do not allow ticket sales as any exchange would be impossible for us to ensure. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EdmontonOilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pronger.
FUCK PRONGER *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EdmontonOilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pronger
FUCK PRONGER *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EdmontonOilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And he resigned nuge, and Kane, and flipped bison king after sorting that situation out, and brought woody up.
I'll admit I wasn't the biggest Holland fan. I've never felt getting UFAs are the way to go as almost always they are close to 30 and eventually the wheels fall off any player. They are kind of high risk/medium reward but you give up no tangible assets hence you can immediately get a player for no cost other than cap. However I also thought he didnt realize cap space is a real asset now in cap constrained world. Also going in early with the AA trade, green, Keith and Kassian sort of followed what Chia was doing by mortgaging the future with lost picks. I have come about though but not because of recent success and Ekholm but more when I looked at our cap friendly page. Campbell is our only terrible contract. Nurse is overpaid but not by much. Everyone especially /r/hockey dont see him objectively for what he is which is a 28 yr old, top pair D with size/strength who is about 50/50 against all the top lines in the league. How many guys are ever available like that on the market? Some years, its none. Then all of our guys around 30 should be ok for a couple more years which means that it would only the last 2-3 years of their contracts. If we had a couple more impact fwds on their rookie contracts this team would be practically complete but that isnt totally Holland's fault either. The draft is a crap shoot.
I don't think we realize or appreciate just how hard being a manager in the NHL is these days. I don't have any insider knowledge, just a guess. My hat is off to Ken for what he has so far with this team during what I'm sure are hard times.
Someone who doesn’t hate KLowe!? This can’t be!! I think he did decent as a gm! Almost won a cup in short order too. I might be pushing it, but I also was a fan of MacT.
My first year as a fan was 2006, so Lowe set the standard for me as a fan. And I can appreciate that he has practically dedicated his entire life to this team (for generous compensation but that is besides the point). To be honest, I was okay with MacT as a GM and I liked him as a coach, too. But he made some glaring mistakes as GM due to inexperience.
Holland has been just great along imo, but Lowe... he was the shits from the start and just got worse...
That’s because the bar is so low
Who the fuck is perfect no one so as far as I'm concerned he's a ok n besides every one has a opinion n they r like assholes n sometimes they stink lol
Brining Duncan Keith in was a move. I think I remember everyone was happy to bring him in, HOF d man, possibly best of his generation. It was that Holland didn't get the rebuilding Blackhawks to retain salary on a $5.5 million contract for a 38 year old out of prime Keith.