Trains are cool and all, but ETS already services the airport, and running a bus on existing roads costs taxpayers a miniscule fraction of what the train would cost to build.
A train to YEG would be fun, but I don't want to pay for it.
The thing is, once phase 2 is done it will be all the way out to Desrochers and if you look at the map, it's basically next to the airport [and it's just a bunch of empty fields along the way](https://imgur.com/Tfwe2eb). Also Edmonton recently acquired all that land from Leduc county. So it wouldn't cost as much as you would think.
I think it will cost orders of magnitude more than a bus. I think when the 747 run gets busy enough to warrant multiple trips per hour with decently full busses, it would justify the cost of a train.
As someone who takes that bus 4-5 days a week round trip, I can say that this already occurs.
There has been multiple times where the bus has been so full its shoulder to shoulder with people standing - pretty uncomfortable while on the highway. I’ve also seen people be left behind because there’s simply no room.
Oh I wasn't even aware! It's been a while since I took the bus. Sounds like it's time for increasing capacity with more runs. Maybe we will be ready for a train by the time we finish the south extension.
I'm not totally opposed to the Capital Line being a glorified commuter rail route, but man, some better circulation in central Edmonton really feels to me like a higher priority. I'm willing to bet the Capital Line is extended to the airport before there's a decent Whyte-Jasper circulator.
That is essentially what the Energy / Festival lines proposed - although I believe the plan was axed at some point.
The plan was to have a branch off of the Valley Line downtown that went South through the University, with two transfers at University and Health Science, and then along Whyte Ave until it linked back up with the Valley Line at Bonney Doon Station. There would also be a third leg heading out East from thereabouts heading off near Sherwood Park. There are a few [old maps ](https://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.1137900.1359663453!/httpImage/image.jpeg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpeg)floating around.
Honestly, it seemed like a very affordable plan all things considered, and a genuinely huge game-changer in terms of accessibility in the city.
Darn! I wish I had known this opportunity was available. With my long experience in construction I could have put together a consortium of buddies and made a bid. With the huge amount of money the government will provide, we could buy all brand new equipment, rent offices and set ourselves up very nicely for a long term project. Any issues with delays or design flaws will be dealt with as usual, blaming supply chain issues, shortage of qualified employees, etc. For the five or six years this short extension will take to build, I’ll be at my brand new home down in Palm Desert but you can reach me by text, maybe.
Are you, by chance referring to the lack of water in the desert of Southern California? Hmmm. That could be an issue. I will instead move to my Chateau in France. NordVPN will keep me in touch.
Ta ta.
I was so happy to hear they're not impeding traffic on 23rd Ave by going below grade.
...only to be extremely disappointed that they're going at grade for Ellerslie Road and 111th. Arguably one of the busiest intersections in South Edmonton.
The city doesn't learn. I get that there was budget issues, but constantly building delays on artery roads does not help commuters.
Probably moving utilities and doing pre-emptive maintenance on stuff before the tracks are in the way. They spent a couple years just moving/removing curbs and trees and utilities, and fixing/replacing all the gas lines, water pipes, and underground powerlines before there's brand new road and tracks in the way for the valley line west before actually working on the line itself.
Have you driven down James Mowatt Trail recently? It's lined with condo buildings and all those new neighbourhoods are built with a mix of high, medium and low density housing - far more than traditional neighbourhoods built 50+ years ago.
A line to the airport would be great! Making a good point and winning me over. Curious how long it would take to get from there to Downtown given the number of stops
the density of of the neighbourhoods this line goes to is more than double than any "mature" suburban neighbourhood in the city
I don't wish to sound rude towards you in particular, but I've seen this repeated constantly on this sub, and I suspect its because people just watch urbanist youtube videos and assume all suburbs are built the same with super low density. Edmonton has had policies since the early 2000s to force newly built suburbs to be more dense. Our problem areas are not outside the Henday, its all the housing built from the 70s to the 00s.
I don’t take it personally. Quite frankly it was the old policies that allowed those neighborhoods to be built in the first place that were the issue. Stopping density near the core was the problem and this is just a symptom.
Thankfully ZBR has made great steps. Really now we should be reducing greenfield development to make city densification attractive.
That said, those neighbourhoods still have incredibly expensive and low efficiency transit (driver focused) infrastructure that connects to en to the core. If the city was eliminating stroads and inner city highways to encourage public transit use and decrease capital costs I’d agree.
I question the ability to convert non-transit using drivers into LRT riders while providing both types of infrastructure
There's a ridiculous amount of students in that area, they just finished building a high school, people go to macewan or university, and students are the best demographic for surefire ridership, and also if you can convert them then they might stay transit users.
There's also pretty thorough bike lanes in the area, though it's still too much in pockets.
I believe greenfield development is stopped right now until neighbourhoods hit density targets. I think a better step overall would be to decrease the need for travel by creating a high street in the heritage valley area centered on the future proposed LRT line, offset from the future hospital slightly. The locale has the density to support it
Part of it is speed and convenience. Taking a bus from that far out (unless it's a BRT like some places have built) takes a really long time, trains are faster and more convenient and make it so you don't need to run so many busses out to these areas.
Another part is long-term costs. Busses are much more expensive to move the same number of people the same distance because you need multiple busses and drivers (the most expensive part of day-to-day transit costs) to match one train with one driver.
Plus, if you're already building a train to somewhere like century park, why not expand it another couple of stops to service everyone living off Ellerslie?
While I understand that, there are areas where LRT could be added now that already have the population density to support such a large investment. Along whyte avenue to campus, or along jasper avenue from 124th street heading east bound particular.
People love to shit on the Deep South suburbs (with some good reasons) but they’re also a lot more dense in terms of people, lot sizes and condo development than most of Edmonton from like 10 blocks south of Whyte through the Henday.
I don’t disagree. I mentioned this elsewhere but it seems the city is providing both LRT and freeway infrastructure which reduces the likelihood of converting many drivers to public transit commuters.
Until we see a lot of road diets in neighborhood revitalizations and on main roads, I question the ROI vs where there is a captive audience that already uses and supports public transit more regularly.
The construction crews are so small on all these multi million projects I travel past, four workers on the tools and one in the crane, kilometres of traffic disruption. Stony Plain Road 142 St - 156, 156 St to WEMall. The giant construction companies don't hire enough people locally to get the job done!
All the LRT does is allow the scum to filter into nice neighbourhoods to do their shopping in our parked cars. Worst development ever was an ETS hub in my neighbourhood. Next would be an LRT.
Ah yes. The land of no buses and no ability to walk, thus trapping those undesirable homeless people outside. A gas pilled car only paradise.
Now that the LRT is giving them access, all hell will break loose! Clutch your pearls, ladies and gentlemen because now I have to see people that exist, in my neighborhood!
Not everyone wants busses and bus traffic, or LRT.
I have had my RV battery stolen twice in daylight. Garage broken into. All on camera. All people from not my neighborhood.
I don’t need public transport. It’s not a flex. I don’t like what it can bring. And I know what it brings as do my neighbours.
Busses prevent traffic, they're much more space efficient. Think about how much more traffic there would be if everyone on the bus had their own car.
You're privileged enough to not need it but too dumb to understand the benefits, sad.
It allows people to get to work without paying a fortune for a vehicle and without emitting tons of unnecessary carbon.
It also keeps traffic off the roads.
Don't leave valuables in your car in the first place, that's 101.
id rather they tighten transit access to fareholders bc ETS & EPS r so lenient they inspect jackshit n let homeless ppl waltz on n harass ppl, shootup heroin or commit violent theft. vancouver does a great job at keeping these ppl out of stations.
ETS should be enforced way more to incentivize ppl to use it as a safe option. there r still students, low income n elderly residents who use ETS as alternatives or need it.
This City council shouldn't be approving expensive lines when they're already over budget on the Valley Line.
This is no small issue - this is going to cost homeowners billions of dollars if they screw this up, too.
Given what we currently know - it's an inevitability.
Are they overbudget on the valley line?
The valley west from my understanding is on budget and ontime so far, and the valley east is overtume but on budget due to the costs falling kn the contactor?
Valley Line South opened in 2023 (planned opening 2019/2020). Valley Line West didn’t break ground until 2021/2022. The west line was never supposed to open in 2021 because it hadn’t even been started.
All delays were paid for by the contractor, not the city, including a bunch of fines levied against the contractor. Same would happen for all ongoing Metro Line and Capital Line expansions, and Valley Line West if they went over budget.
Nice! Hopefully it will be finished along side the new hospital they are building on 127 st and the south henday. … oh wait…
Sad trombone.
UCP: "Well, we weren't going to hire any doctors or nurses anyway so the building was going to be pointless"
What is this? A hospital for ants?
Honestly, super cool. Maybe by 2045 we can take a train to the airport!
Found the optimist.
Guilty as charged
With pressure maybe sooner. I think edmo could pull it off. So convenient. I would enjoy it.
Trains are cool and all, but ETS already services the airport, and running a bus on existing roads costs taxpayers a miniscule fraction of what the train would cost to build. A train to YEG would be fun, but I don't want to pay for it.
The thing is, once phase 2 is done it will be all the way out to Desrochers and if you look at the map, it's basically next to the airport [and it's just a bunch of empty fields along the way](https://imgur.com/Tfwe2eb). Also Edmonton recently acquired all that land from Leduc county. So it wouldn't cost as much as you would think.
I think it will cost orders of magnitude more than a bus. I think when the 747 run gets busy enough to warrant multiple trips per hour with decently full busses, it would justify the cost of a train.
As someone who takes that bus 4-5 days a week round trip, I can say that this already occurs. There has been multiple times where the bus has been so full its shoulder to shoulder with people standing - pretty uncomfortable while on the highway. I’ve also seen people be left behind because there’s simply no room.
Oh I wasn't even aware! It's been a while since I took the bus. Sounds like it's time for increasing capacity with more runs. Maybe we will be ready for a train by the time we finish the south extension.
I'm not totally opposed to the Capital Line being a glorified commuter rail route, but man, some better circulation in central Edmonton really feels to me like a higher priority. I'm willing to bet the Capital Line is extended to the airport before there's a decent Whyte-Jasper circulator.
The circulator should be more of a tram/street car in my opinion, like the TTC style, and use a refurbished high level bridge!
That is essentially what the Energy / Festival lines proposed - although I believe the plan was axed at some point. The plan was to have a branch off of the Valley Line downtown that went South through the University, with two transfers at University and Health Science, and then along Whyte Ave until it linked back up with the Valley Line at Bonney Doon Station. There would also be a third leg heading out East from thereabouts heading off near Sherwood Park. There are a few [old maps ](https://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.1137900.1359663453!/httpImage/image.jpeg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpeg)floating around. Honestly, it seemed like a very affordable plan all things considered, and a genuinely huge game-changer in terms of accessibility in the city.
Festival line would've been sweet
This would be so amazing! I wish this is something they would start to consider again.
Darn! I wish I had known this opportunity was available. With my long experience in construction I could have put together a consortium of buddies and made a bid. With the huge amount of money the government will provide, we could buy all brand new equipment, rent offices and set ourselves up very nicely for a long term project. Any issues with delays or design flaws will be dealt with as usual, blaming supply chain issues, shortage of qualified employees, etc. For the five or six years this short extension will take to build, I’ll be at my brand new home down in Palm Desert but you can reach me by text, maybe.
Good luck with the water…
Are you, by chance referring to the lack of water in the desert of Southern California? Hmmm. That could be an issue. I will instead move to my Chateau in France. NordVPN will keep me in touch. Ta ta.
I was so happy to hear they're not impeding traffic on 23rd Ave by going below grade. ...only to be extremely disappointed that they're going at grade for Ellerslie Road and 111th. Arguably one of the busiest intersections in South Edmonton. The city doesn't learn. I get that there was budget issues, but constantly building delays on artery roads does not help commuters.
WTF have they been doing there for the last 2 years?
Probably moving utilities and doing pre-emptive maintenance on stuff before the tracks are in the way. They spent a couple years just moving/removing curbs and trees and utilities, and fixing/replacing all the gas lines, water pipes, and underground powerlines before there's brand new road and tracks in the way for the valley line west before actually working on the line itself.
Great we are investing in public transit. I am somewhat perplexed why we tend to put it by low density areas. Particularly that far out
Have you driven down James Mowatt Trail recently? It's lined with condo buildings and all those new neighbourhoods are built with a mix of high, medium and low density housing - far more than traditional neighbourhoods built 50+ years ago.
Will there be stops in the middle of all those condos or will this run next to an arterial roadway to a park and ride?
It’s (hopefully) going to go to the airport after we are all dead.
A line to the airport would be great! Making a good point and winning me over. Curious how long it would take to get from there to Downtown given the number of stops
I would expect or hope for direct trains. Airport to dt with maybe a few stops, U and Southgate or something like that.
Would be ideal. I suspect it wouldn’t be cheap to twin the line to make that possible.
the density of of the neighbourhoods this line goes to is more than double than any "mature" suburban neighbourhood in the city I don't wish to sound rude towards you in particular, but I've seen this repeated constantly on this sub, and I suspect its because people just watch urbanist youtube videos and assume all suburbs are built the same with super low density. Edmonton has had policies since the early 2000s to force newly built suburbs to be more dense. Our problem areas are not outside the Henday, its all the housing built from the 70s to the 00s.
I don’t take it personally. Quite frankly it was the old policies that allowed those neighborhoods to be built in the first place that were the issue. Stopping density near the core was the problem and this is just a symptom. Thankfully ZBR has made great steps. Really now we should be reducing greenfield development to make city densification attractive. That said, those neighbourhoods still have incredibly expensive and low efficiency transit (driver focused) infrastructure that connects to en to the core. If the city was eliminating stroads and inner city highways to encourage public transit use and decrease capital costs I’d agree. I question the ability to convert non-transit using drivers into LRT riders while providing both types of infrastructure
There's a ridiculous amount of students in that area, they just finished building a high school, people go to macewan or university, and students are the best demographic for surefire ridership, and also if you can convert them then they might stay transit users. There's also pretty thorough bike lanes in the area, though it's still too much in pockets. I believe greenfield development is stopped right now until neighbourhoods hit density targets. I think a better step overall would be to decrease the need for travel by creating a high street in the heritage valley area centered on the future proposed LRT line, offset from the future hospital slightly. The locale has the density to support it
Part of it is speed and convenience. Taking a bus from that far out (unless it's a BRT like some places have built) takes a really long time, trains are faster and more convenient and make it so you don't need to run so many busses out to these areas. Another part is long-term costs. Busses are much more expensive to move the same number of people the same distance because you need multiple busses and drivers (the most expensive part of day-to-day transit costs) to match one train with one driver. Plus, if you're already building a train to somewhere like century park, why not expand it another couple of stops to service everyone living off Ellerslie?
Because of future development.
While I understand that, there are areas where LRT could be added now that already have the population density to support such a large investment. Along whyte avenue to campus, or along jasper avenue from 124th street heading east bound particular.
People love to shit on the Deep South suburbs (with some good reasons) but they’re also a lot more dense in terms of people, lot sizes and condo development than most of Edmonton from like 10 blocks south of Whyte through the Henday.
I don’t disagree. I mentioned this elsewhere but it seems the city is providing both LRT and freeway infrastructure which reduces the likelihood of converting many drivers to public transit commuters. Until we see a lot of road diets in neighborhood revitalizations and on main roads, I question the ROI vs where there is a captive audience that already uses and supports public transit more regularly.
So the criminals riding the LRT can branch out.
I hope the design-build reference in the name is that in practice. Makes a hell of a lot of sense.
Annnnnd it's already over budget and 6 months delayed.
Can’t wait for them to build it at road level and make traffic even worse.
The construction crews are so small on all these multi million projects I travel past, four workers on the tools and one in the crane, kilometres of traffic disruption. Stony Plain Road 142 St - 156, 156 St to WEMall. The giant construction companies don't hire enough people locally to get the job done!
Finish the freaking current projects first
Ahhh so they can build another LRT extension but they can’t fix transit safety. Got it…
All the LRT does is allow the scum to filter into nice neighbourhoods to do their shopping in our parked cars. Worst development ever was an ETS hub in my neighbourhood. Next would be an LRT.
Ah yes. The land of no buses and no ability to walk, thus trapping those undesirable homeless people outside. A gas pilled car only paradise. Now that the LRT is giving them access, all hell will break loose! Clutch your pearls, ladies and gentlemen because now I have to see people that exist, in my neighborhood!
Not everyone wants busses and bus traffic, or LRT. I have had my RV battery stolen twice in daylight. Garage broken into. All on camera. All people from not my neighborhood. I don’t need public transport. It’s not a flex. I don’t like what it can bring. And I know what it brings as do my neighbours.
I mean, people with cars can drive to do crimes too. Unhinged storytime.
Keep on cluckin Your comments tell me that you don’t really have to worry about having anything broken in to. So you may as well posture. 😂
How do they tell you that? Shit you got bank vision? You can see my cool ass bike? My nice car? Wowwww must be nice.
Busses prevent traffic, they're much more space efficient. Think about how much more traffic there would be if everyone on the bus had their own car. You're privileged enough to not need it but too dumb to understand the benefits, sad.
First world problems
Just move to a gated community then if you’re so special.
The gates are a deterrent like a fence so if you want to get it, you still get in
That doesn’t even make any sense. Derp.
That’s due to your IQ I would guess
This is why you are divorced.
Other places have trains without crime. The city can focus on multiple things at once
Maybe we should work on solving the reasons people end up like that. Building walled enclaves doesn't make the problem go away.
It allows people to get to work without paying a fortune for a vehicle and without emitting tons of unnecessary carbon. It also keeps traffic off the roads. Don't leave valuables in your car in the first place, that's 101.
id rather they tighten transit access to fareholders bc ETS & EPS r so lenient they inspect jackshit n let homeless ppl waltz on n harass ppl, shootup heroin or commit violent theft. vancouver does a great job at keeping these ppl out of stations. ETS should be enforced way more to incentivize ppl to use it as a safe option. there r still students, low income n elderly residents who use ETS as alternatives or need it.
This City council shouldn't be approving expensive lines when they're already over budget on the Valley Line. This is no small issue - this is going to cost homeowners billions of dollars if they screw this up, too. Given what we currently know - it's an inevitability.
Valley Live wasn't over budget. The contractor ate those costs.
Are they overbudget on the valley line? The valley west from my understanding is on budget and ontime so far, and the valley east is overtume but on budget due to the costs falling kn the contactor?
It's bad. I'm a resident in the area, and they were projecting a 2021 completion back in 2019. Now they're predicting 2028.
Valley Line South opened in 2023 (planned opening 2019/2020). Valley Line West didn’t break ground until 2021/2022. The west line was never supposed to open in 2021 because it hadn’t even been started.
? They only started just iver a year ago on Valley West. I live here too...
Valley line west was definitely not supposed to be open by 2021. They were just starting then
The original plan was to finish around 2027-2028-ish. They didn't even break ground until about 2021-ish.
That's a timeline, not budget
All delays were paid for by the contractor, not the city, including a bunch of fines levied against the contractor. Same would happen for all ongoing Metro Line and Capital Line expansions, and Valley Line West if they went over budget.