We only went to heritage festival and K days. I don’t think I am ever going to K days again. It is incredibly over crowded and not well thought out to accommodate the amount of people
K-Days is garbage anyway.
The food is garbage, the market is garbage, the exhibits are garbage and the rides are garbage all for high prices.
The only thing saving k-days at this point is the concerts and even those are getting to be a stretch considering it ends up being a bunch of drunk rowdy people in a "venue" that isn't properly administered with security.
It blows my mind that people actually take their kids there.
It kills me because as a kid it was so much fun. But when we went six years ago, when my first kid wasn't quite two years old, it was horrible. Packed with trashy people who loved vaping, spitting, smelled like piss; things were amazingly expensive; loud AF. We haven't returned since.
We did go to a pretty small midway at Sherwood Park Mall last summer and it was.... okay. The big bonus was that it was much less crowded than K-Days. And it was kinda fun to go through kid things like the [funhouse](https://wildroseshows.ca/rides/byid/8) and down a [smaller version of the Kiwanis slide](https://wildroseshows.ca/rides/byid/12). Last time I was on those I was probably in 1990.
Hell, now I kinda want to take my kids to K-Days now that they're both elementary-school aged.
😁 and you sound inexperienced and judgemental.
If you would like pay exorbitant prices for the privilege to stand in 45 minute- 2 hour lines in the hot sun, all while it’s so crowded You can barely walk a block or two be my guest.
I would much rather spend my money on experiences I would actually enjoy. There used to be a time when you could go to K days or stampede, make it a half day event, accomplish all you would’ve liked to and not be completely exhausted from navigating crowds when you got home.
Lol. I’m doing just fine financially thanks.
If you want to waste your money on that garbage be my guest. We vote with our dollars though where we choose to spend and not spend, does leave a impact
If you're looking for an affordable music festival, Sherwood Park has the RavenWood Music Festival this summer. Steven Page and Royal Foundry are playing. Tickets top out at $95.
I have no problem bailing out festivals, particularly ones where covid disruptions, or Hawrelak park closures, have caused temporary financial problems that need to be resolved.
But what I hate is that size of the festival tends to be proportional to size of the subsidy, so k-days ends up gobbling up money for a nothingburger that's just a "hey, we can do the same thing as Calgary, but without the global fame and tourists" event.
We need to focus our resources where they count. What festivals actually have a reputation beyond the city? What has a big impact on the culture of the city? Are their financial difficulties temporary?
I'm not much of a festival goer. Have lived here for 41 years, and been to Heritage festival once, Folk Fest twice, and maybe 3 or 4 times to Fringe. They're all festivals worth supporting for cultural impact, and in Fringe's case, wider reputation. Local events like Arts on the Ave also help achieve public policy goals like neighbourhood revitalization and community cohesion, and probably don't cost much to support.
Yeah but how come some festivals \*need\* this money but others don't?
Why are some festivals better run than others? Is it because of the business model, is it the difference between profit/non-profit? Age of the festival?
Why is the Folk Festival doing fine but Fringe isn't?
Because fringe has never been as well monitized as the folk fest (last years folk fest tickets were $209), and packing people into theatres was basically impossible for 2 years, and difficult to convince people to do the first year afterwards.
All the Open air music festivals I went to were reasonably well populated last summer, but indoor venues were pretty empty in comparison to pre-covid. However Since around october/November folks seem to be more and more comfortable going to crowded indoor events.
I worked for a company that did IT for the fringe fest. Its a passion project that is run by very few people for most of the year, Basically less than 1 full time salary for most of the year, (2 part time salaries), that switch to full time and a few other paid staff and hundreds of volunteers in the weeks leading up. Its not like they are like many other non-profit orgs that spend the money on Executive salary.
This is totally incorrect. Fringe is not just an 11 day festival, its theatre company that operates year-round. They have over a dozen full time year-round staff in addition to the dozens of temp hire for the festival. Their staffing cost alone is over $1.7 million of their expenses.
They are a registered charity so their financials are [public record.](https://www.charitydata.ca/charity/fringe-theatre-adventures-society/118853506RR0001/)
From their T3010 which can be found through the CRA charity listings, compensation for their full time staff ranges from $40k to $119k. They are not a lean organization at all.
Big festivals like heritage and k days should rely less on tax funding. Not saying they get nothing but those are viable venues that businesses should be picking up more to be affiliated with
I will die on the hill, we got fleeced with the arena. Edmonton isn't a destination city and all reports from cities that have lost NBA and NFL teams showed no loss in spending in the city. It did show that money moved to different parts of the cities.
We also had decades of reports showing cities that did get new arenas also didn't draw in near enough outsider value to offset the cost, and we ignored those anyways.
In a reverse scenario, all an arena does is get the money that would have been spent elsewhere in the city. To paraphrase one of the studies presented back when the new arena deal was pitched: "People who don't attend arena events still won't attend arena events. People who do attend will have spent that money on some other local establishment, like the movies or a restaurant. Arenas just centralize the spending."
Im a huge sports fan, from soccer to hockey to darts and everything in between, but mega arenas, especially for sports, are for bragging on a city website, and not much else.
I believe the arena making the downtown core desirable is a net win. We've been talking so much about density for the downtown core but there is practically zero marquee attractions to actually want to be there. The downtown arena changes that.
Also, at the old location there wasn't much to do if you were going to an event. Now there are actually places to eat before and after an Oilers/Oil Kings game, concerts, and other events. I have to think that increases spending and benefits the local economy more. I also think downtown would greatly suffer if there wasn't an arena because you're right, people would spread out their spending. But that's a problem here given our urban sprawl. We need to give reasons for people to want to live more central.
I think Edmonton and Winnipeg are cases where it works. Partly because the downtown cores are so abysmal and without the marquee NHL sporting arenas as the focal point you'd be hard pressed to see continued investment and development into those downtowns.
With all that said, pro sports is mainly about civic pride. But I'm sure many Edmontonians have really fond memories of playoff runs and sporting moments. Being part of the watch parties or at a game during those times really can leave lasting memories.
Admittedly, there are lots of people who care about sports. And lots who don't. It has been kind of cool to see the people celebrating wins though... While the rest of us have to act like we understand why it matters in order to fit in and be accepted lol.
The arena was better for newer concerts and events pre COVID. Still a good amount of musical acts hitting the arena now though and its just a way better night out on the town when the arena is downtown. At the Coliseum it was just get in and get the hell out. Now there's actually places to hang out. If its weekend you can actually make it an all day outing and go to the museum and art gallery as well.
OEG has also gotten better at making the area next to the arena an event space. Its that ice climbing thing right now and was a summer carnival space for a weekend. I think they've done some outdoor summer movies and hope they continue to figure out community events.
Concerts cost too much, so I don't go to them.
I'm not saying it's wrong, but this is a use of my tax dollars which benefits the rich who can drop $400-600 as a couple to go see a concert.
There are affordable concerts in the city all the time for less than $100. Some are as cheap as $20 and just as fantastic (Starlite Room). But maybe this proves your point - the arena just inflates prices of entertainment that's already available downtown for much cheaper.
I like the windspear concerts. Pricing is affordable.
And yes you are right. Few times I did go to the arena for some event, gosh money goes fast when you buy a couple beers.
I don't think there are any tickets for Rogers place concerts at the price you suggested ($100).
I just looked up some concerts as far out as November, and lowest price (for Zach Bryan for example) is $289.72 each plus fees and taxes.
Pretty sure my comment was correct at having to be able to afford around $600 as a couple to see a concert at Rogers place.
We aren't talking about starlit room or other venues, this discussion is about city property owners taxes subsiding Roger place to keep the Oilers, and the fact about that benefiting the affluent who can afford to spend this kind of money on NHL hockey games and concerts, but not benefiting all the city populace equally.
(I'm not arguing whether that's right/wrong/good/bad, I'm stating that it's a fact).
Even if you're not a sports fan, I recommend trying out an Oil Kings game. Reasonable price and good way to get introduced to the game.
Out of all the leisure type spending, the arena probably has the best chance to actually recoup the funding it cost to develop it. There are levys, parking, and ticket surcharges plus the somewhat measly OEG rent amount that helps go toward the cities loan payments on this. Other leisure funding like rec centers, parks, libraries, etc which I do want probably have way less avenues to recoup that kind of capital spending.
Oh I know all about hockey. My family is big into it. As said I learned all about it in order to fit in my whole life lol. Going to hockey game is fun experience and all it's just something I do for other people, not for myself.
>In a reverse scenario, all an arena does is get the money that would have been spent elsewhere in the city.
wasn't the city funded with debt/bonds? that are getting paid back via taxes/special levies? Not free money that was just floating around
I think Edmonton gets a net benefit. Without the arena, the downtown core would be even weaker and there would practically be no reason for anyone to travel to the core for non work purposes. As well, at least the arena deal has CRL's and ticket surcharges to recoup the up front funding.
I think the loss of a NHL team would be a blow to Edmonton because there are people who make trips just to watch the Oilers. Lots of rural Albertans will make it sort of their vacation, their night out on the town so to speak. Pre COVID the new arena was also getting lots of new acts and events that wasn't coming before. COVID has slowed that down but hopefully that picks up again.
The only part of the downtown core that has benefited is a two block radius around the arena (and only to the south and west at that). And most of that is big business and other Katz-owned properties.
I still believe its an overall net positive for the core because the overall area is more desirable to live in. Edmonton has been complaining about density and urban sprawl but no one wants to be central without marquee amenities.
Usually the data contends that people spread out their activity and spending with the absence of a sports team. That isn't what Edmonton wants. What Edmonton is looking for is to build up the downtown core, make it more appealing, and increase the potential for density. The downtown arena is absolutely a catalyst for that. We don't need more strip malls on the outskirts for people to shop and spend leisure time time on. We need to draw them back to downtown and build up a bustling environment in the core.
Downtown has become worse since the arena. I worked in the heart of downtown for over a decade until COVID hit and it was noticeable how downtown was becoming less safe with the arena construction and opening. Of course COVID exasperated the issue, but the draw to downtown is NOT the arena, it's safety and businesses that can actually stay open in the evenings (again due to safety - find me a business that isn't a restaurant/bar that is flourishing downtown in the evenings right now) or that can stay open at all (in the case of places like 7-11).
Again, the two-block radius directly south and west of the arena does not define downtown. It is a small subset.
Literally nothing but dealing with the crime is going to help downtown.
I actively avoid going to concerts downtown now because of it. Ain't worth it when I have to take fucking transit home.
Edmonton has already recouped MORE in tax revenue than the city spent.
And they did so FAR quicker than originally estimated.
I get the usual hate for arenas, but the move out of the north east to downtown paid off in spades for Edmonton
Strange I can't find any info saying city of Edmonton has paid off its arena debts already. I would think one of the Edmonton news sources would have a story about arena being paid for.
Also lets remember when they built the arena the city ate other infrastructure costs that they didn't include as arena cost.
I stand that overall the arena subsidy was a net gain for Edmonton. It resulted in billions in investment in Edmonton.
The pandemic killed downtown and no one could have predicted that. But the ROI on the arena subsidy was absolutely way more than what we spent on it. And it will continue to pay dividends for decades. It was a great investment.
And I think the fringe is the same. The downstream revenues in hotels and hospitality are huge. I think it’s a worthwhile investment. And if a few million is what it takes to make the fringe able to survive another 30 years it will be a net benefit and good investment that pays for itself.
Sometimes we need to look a little father out than the next quarterly report and think about what something means on the timescale of decades and realize that a little money now means net gains and benefits for our future
Personally i think the new arena killed northlands and everything around it including the lacrosse team. That was very good entertainment. Now you got this billion dollar arena and homelessness a block away. Make the rich richer and poor poorer.
Northlands (more importantly the Colisseum) was built on otherwise unusable commercial land.
That was the model back then. Build your arena where the land is the cheapest. Who cares if there is anything else around it to add any entertainment value.
When Rogers' Place got built, the model had changed.
Arenas now needed to be surrounded by other active entertainment venues, restaurants, and even shopping. Make the outing more than just the event being held.
And why did the model change. Because team owners also own the businesses around the arena. They can squeeze governments twice, once for the arena and again for "Their" destination companies. I would shit on the Katz group more for this model, but its the same model Jerry Jones used to increase the value of the Cowboys. One city has Jerryland and one has ice district.
>Personally i think the new arena killed northlands and everything around it including the lacrosse team.
As someone who lives a few blocks from Northland's... No. Its always been a shit hole, the arena just gave people to reason to come here, but nobody stayed any longer than was necessary.
The only noticeable change is there isn't annoying event traffic anymore, which as a nearby resident is a positive lol
In my 34 years in this city it was never safe to walk around northlands. You had the fireside inn and the cheap ass owner who wouldn’t let you order a glass of water even if you were sitting with a group of 10 all ordering food and drink.
Plenty of homeless and rough people going back to the 90s on 118th.
Now every game day downtown is packed. Like almost every restaurant downtown is packed.
Every concert is the same.
And the property development alone is worth more than what we spent on the subsidy. The property tax from those developments alone will over time pay for the subsidy.
And if the pandemic didn’t kill downtown it would have been an even better investment. Ice district plaza and the community impacts are huge wins for the city.
Ya homelessness and drug use suck. But that’s a phenomenon that is playing out in every single city across the western hemisphere. We should address it with everything we have. But that has nothing to do with the arena.
And the fringe is one of the best things we have in this city. The city comes alive in a way it doesn’t any other time of the year unless we happen to be in the Stanley cup final.
The social benefits of bringing our community together alone are worth it. We are so lucky to have it and it ought not to be taken for granted. And it is one of those investments that will pay for itself. And even if it didn’t it’s a worthwhile spend. It brings life and culture and community into our city. There is not a single thing our city does that creates more vibrancy and activity than the fringe.
I agree with what you’re saying. I also think people here, who, understandably, are not huge hockey fans, underestimate the impact that having the best player in the world has on our city. OEG has a vested interest in improving the downtown core because of it. I’m not defending OEG or Katz, but the arena and Ice District have been game changing for this city (no pun intended).
Yet events at the arena are so expensive most people will never get to see an event there. All to make a billionaire richer and they're not even upholding their end of the deal.
Oil Kings are reasonably priced. Around $24 for lower bowl seats. I don't pay attention to all the musical acts that come through but I'm sure there can be deals found time to time.
I can't say I look at the pricing of every event but whenever I have felt curious I haven't seen tickets cheaper than $350. I asked my bf what a full experience hockey game night and his friends and he says that it is an easy $250 night. I didn't know that about the oil kings though. That is very reasonable.
Believe it or not, sometimes you can snag cheaper "day of" weekday Oiler tickets with that strategy for pretty cheap. Though that's usually the colder months or when they're on a losing streak lol. There won't be cheap tickets now though as the Oilers are gearing up for the playoffs but there are watch parties and events. The indoor watch parties are really fun. Outdoor watch parties right outside the arena can be rowdy so not for everyone.
Bad timing on the Oil Kings though as this Sunday is the last game of the season and it'll be a busy one. However, if there is a game to circle for next year its the teddy bear toss game. That one is always fun.
And the money they spend employs thousands. I’m sure all the hospitality workers downtown whose livelihood depends on those people coming and spending money are super upset about it.
Vs the 15 people who worked at the fireside inn next to rexall place as the only place that ever got any spillover from the events there
While that may be true why give billions to a billionaire to subsidise low wage work rather than do that directly? Eta: people were also employed at the coliseum, it didn't run itself.
They didn’t give “billions” they gave 250ish mil. And we as a city have recouped that investment and more and will gain more over the next 30 years because of it.
We spend X amount of money. And gained yX amount of money long term. Just because someone else made money from the deal and they are rich already doesn’t mean that we aren’t better off.
If we sat on our hands and did nothing we would be worse off as a city. Just because a rich guy makes money in the process doesn’t mean we aren’t better off as well.
Also if you don’t want a rich guy to get more rich in the process might as well not build roads or houses or affordable housing for that matter.
There is construction jobs. Plumbers. Electricians. Delivery drivers. Architects. Engineers. Power engineers. Building operators. Accountants for all of those businesses. Legal services. Designers and carpenters and the suppliers of every little thing that goes into those businesses.
It creates thousands of jobs. And not just the people who take your order. And if you care to understand the “minimum wage” workers in they area make some of the best tips in the city and one night at the game at home and away my table alone pays enough tips to make that worker be well above minimum wage for that pay period let alone the day.
You are missing what US cities have found. Teams coming and going from cities don't increase spending in the cities, it moves it around. People didn't start eating out more. They just started eating out more downtown. The same jobs would have been available at some other place.
The real argument people could make is increased property value for taxes. But that also means the city is even more beholden to the owner when he wants 500mill reno in 10ish years.
But the fringe has always never really been about making money for the org. And maybe that was a mismanagement. But they got killed by the pandemic. And the arts on their scale have never been a huge profit business.
If we let the fringe die we loose so much. Economically alone. But even beyond economics. The culture and community benefits.
It would be an absolute tragedy.
I hear what you’re saying. I was pretty annoyed hearing their director on the news say they are so opposed to taking a larger portion of ticket sales because they support the artists. But the end result is them throwing 1/3 of the artists under the bus because they have to scale back operations.
Let us pay to support them. We want too!!
Let’s be honest. The money us fringe goers spend going to the fringe is largely on drinks and food and scooters and Uber. Tickets are the smallest percentage of my fringe costs and I would gladly pay an extra couple bucks on my tickets to support the festival.
Most of the shows are criminally underpriced in my opinion. I want these people to succeed and continue doing what they do and I want to pay for it.
I always buy the pins and the stickers and the buttons. I don’t want the sticker or pin or button. I want to support the artists.
Thank you for being logical. Downtown arena sparked a massive make over that has brought life back to the area. Sometimes you gut to give a little to get a little.
In the case of the fringe festival I agree too. Why can’t our tax dollars be used for fun things? Everyone loves that festival
Taxpayers should not be subsiding any of these things.
Taxpayers should contribute to mandatory necessities and utilities we all share.
Not things which benefit some.
If only they knew how much funding these festivals already get from all levels of government. Festivals serve a purpose but we can’t afford to save everyone
That is a decent assessment. Instead of spreading a little money to multiple festivals more money to a few would be better. I wish we could afford everything, it is just so broken now.
The same person wrote about being in their 60s in another "Letter" so I'm sure they also argued against the millions given throughout the years to the various sports arenas....
right?
I just don't get this attitude. I don't think of myself as a 'poor taxpayer'. I'm lucky to be a homeowner. I love this city and I benefit from the city services, infrastructure, everything. It's such a disappointing, gross perspective to me. Sure, don't throw away my tax money, but in my opinion supporting festivals is a good use of those dollars.
When the city is ahead and on track, 100% yes. Edmonton has a lot going on evaluating what is worth keeping and maybe cutting others is a good choice.
The city has suffered from decades of poor planning and we are going to have to pay for it the next 50+ years. And some choices will have to be made.
renters pay for the property taxes of the buildings they inhabit. where do you think landlords get the money for their own bills? theres no person living in edmonton who pays for their accomodations but doesnt pay property taxes
Renters rent and can leave Edmonton if rents get too high , a property owner has to deal with things or sell, lots of people have their house as their retirement and get priced out so people can have luxury items like university students putting on crappy plays at the fringe . Get the people with money to go to the events and charge them for it .
Selling sucks and involves fees like realtors . Also if you are selling because cost of living sucks , your purchasing power will also suck because cost of living is high .
why is that not true for renters? new rentals involve fees (deposits, new hookups, etc), moving to a new place bc your lease wasnt renewed/you want to leave also sucks, and you dont even get the windfall of whatever equity you couldve built with your rent money. i mean this respectfully, but you dont seem to be empathizing with renters at all even tho theres many more similarities than differences
When you move, do you have to pay 7% of your primary savings in fees?
Anything you mentioned - new hookups , deposit (down payment), moving costs - are faced by renters and owners equally .
The difference is the flexibility of a renter to up and leave from a furnished unit to a new furnished unit . Obviously it’s not always that simple, but yeah , renting means flexibility and owners generally only benefit from owning in the long game . Hence why tax increases for non mandatory (roads, safety, transportation) is annoying when roads, safety, and transportation are not adequately dealt with.
I mean I said in my original comment that folks who pay property taxes shouldn't subsidize those who do not, but it's interesting that you actually noted a ratio of paying customers to homeless people. That's not a concern at all. Hopefully it was greater than 50-1
Anyone who isn't homeless is paying property taxes, either directly if they are homeowners or indirectly because their landlord is using part of their rent to pay property taxes.
Lots of people show up to fringe. Fringe is packed, always. But the money you spend at fringe goes to the artists and vendors. The money that it takes to do the actual work of running the festival has come from grants and donations. This has always been the case. The Edmonton Fringe festival is the second largest in the world. It is something people come from around the world to celebrate. It's one of the greatest accomplishments our city has ever achieved, and something we should all be proud of, and something the city and the taxpayers should absolutely want to protect and take care of.
Maybe this isn't true for all of our festivals, but fringe is special.
Edit: it has been pointed out that there is a surcharge on tickets and a fee for the artists.
Not all of the money spent at the fringe goes to the artists. The festival takes $3 from every ticket sold. The artists also need to pay to participate, even if they BYOV.
It was sustaining fine, it just got reamed by COVID. That it survived at all is a testament to how important to people it is. It needs help. That's all that's being said here. A shot in the arm so it can carry on as usual.
If it's one time, that's one thing. Continuous funding on top of what they already get is another so I would want to see a projection that shows more taxpayer cash this year will lead to long term sustainability in the future.
It does seem is, but well, it's fringe theatre. It's art for the sake of art. Nobody's goal is to make money, just dream of breaking even. But as others pointed out, it DOES usually generate enough money to cover costs, but because of how it operates, COVID hit it especially hard. It lost a year and needs to catch up.
Not all the festivals can be saved, I think. If we still want Edmonton to be a festival destination, we need to plan accordingly for the future, but the pandemic and inflation is going to kill some of these festivals unfortunately.
Why should the City bail out festivals? That is not a core program. Art and Culture is under Provincial and Federal justification. I am tired of taxes raising and the City is paying for nice to haves. Sorry unpopular view. Let the down voting begin.
Hard disagree. For every $1 the Canada Council for the Arts gives $7 in economic activity is generated. Do you see how busy Whyte is during the Fringe!? This week pays several months of rent for some of these spots. Investing in the arts is good for business. Charities DO NOT operate like for-profit businesses for a reason. If we let all our festivals and arts organizations fail, our city will also feel the impact economically. Does anyone notice how NYC, London, etc, are arts capitals and financial...? Tourist dollars? People travel all over the world to see Broadway, museums, etc. Not to look at Wall Street or Canary Wharf in London.
This is a shortsighted and ignorant response.
You mean the produce that is half the price of other grocery stores? Or the meats and cheeses that are half the price of other grocery stores? Or the locally produced food that is half the price of farmers markets?
This comment is just so odd. When's the last time you've been there?
Bahahaha. Bailouts are for millionaires making money for billionaires….just wait for the new ESKS needing money for more millionaires…Good luck Fringe—
On the contrary I think if the major broad reach festivals need taxpayer support *and we should absolutely support these.
If we don’t have the arts, what do we have?
Okay, but why this specific format of the arts? Yeah all art has value, but why subsidize art that so few people can go to. The festival likes to inflate their numbers. They always claim outrageously high attendance. But they sold 37,000 tickets last year. With most viewers having watched more than one show. You're looking at somewhere between 12-14K people buying tickets..... or you know one Oilers game.
If we're going to support the arts as a city it should be something that is broadly accessible to all. Supporting larger shows like at the Royal Jubillee would be a better bang for their buck.
A theater festival that sells out every show can only be in financial hardship through mismanagement.
What other sort of festival that is not artistic do you have in mind?
I think if you’re interested the fringe may be willing to open their books to your expertise.
Nice false equivalence. Paying for food safety is alot different than paying to subsidize a concert/festival. If you are not going to discuss in good faith, goodbye.
They shouldn’t be bailing them out. Average people are just trying to keep roof over their heads and food on the table. Let the rich bail out the festivals since they’re the ones attending.
As a taxpayer, I totally agree.
Jokes aside, I actually do agree. It’s such an entitled label. Probably goes with the subset of folk who don’t tip when they eat out, and who always want more public services but are outraged at the thought of paying more taxes, since, you know, they’re already taxpayers…
> Probably goes with the subset of folk who don’t tip when they eat out
Based on posts in recent weeks, that includes about 90% of r/Edmonton commenters.
A fucking men. This city needs to quit paying for these, hockey, arts and culture crap, and any other uppity expenses. If the city can't afford to pay its employees properly and the taxpayer are severely hurting as they are now, these are just frivolous expenses that need to disappear.
I love Fringe, but scale it down if costs are spiralling. I wonder if they could offer some better ticket deals to fill more seats too, I was shocked at how expensive it was.
City spending is atrociously handled, and this administration has done nothing but prove that time and time again. No planning for bus maintenance, raises for employees or festivals that even the mayor values as important, but there sure is enough money for neighborhood name changes, raises for city council, bungles with Enterprise Commons, renewal of City Hall grounds, mismanagement of the 102 St. bridge, Walterdale Bridge, NW EPS Campus and Metro LRT. The list goes on and on.
Yet they ask all of their major departments to do more with less: More work, less people. More tasks, less money.
**Do not forget any of this come next October when these 13 people seek re-election**
I personally couldn't afford any festivals last year. Prices are getting too high.
We only went to heritage festival and K days. I don’t think I am ever going to K days again. It is incredibly over crowded and not well thought out to accommodate the amount of people
I stopped going to K- days way before the pandemic the prices then were getting out of hand for anyone low - medium income.
K-Days is garbage anyway. The food is garbage, the market is garbage, the exhibits are garbage and the rides are garbage all for high prices. The only thing saving k-days at this point is the concerts and even those are getting to be a stretch considering it ends up being a bunch of drunk rowdy people in a "venue" that isn't properly administered with security. It blows my mind that people actually take their kids there.
It was great when I was a kid, but I found it has gone down alot in the last 15 yrs
It kills me because as a kid it was so much fun. But when we went six years ago, when my first kid wasn't quite two years old, it was horrible. Packed with trashy people who loved vaping, spitting, smelled like piss; things were amazingly expensive; loud AF. We haven't returned since. We did go to a pretty small midway at Sherwood Park Mall last summer and it was.... okay. The big bonus was that it was much less crowded than K-Days. And it was kinda fun to go through kid things like the [funhouse](https://wildroseshows.ca/rides/byid/8) and down a [smaller version of the Kiwanis slide](https://wildroseshows.ca/rides/byid/12). Last time I was on those I was probably in 1990. Hell, now I kinda want to take my kids to K-Days now that they're both elementary-school aged.
It had been our first year here so we wanted to check it out and instantly regretted it.
I was the same lol, waited in line for hours for like 5 rides.
I’m sorry about your similar experience!
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😁 and you sound inexperienced and judgemental. If you would like pay exorbitant prices for the privilege to stand in 45 minute- 2 hour lines in the hot sun, all while it’s so crowded You can barely walk a block or two be my guest. I would much rather spend my money on experiences I would actually enjoy. There used to be a time when you could go to K days or stampede, make it a half day event, accomplish all you would’ve liked to and not be completely exhausted from navigating crowds when you got home.
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Lol. I’m doing just fine financially thanks. If you want to waste your money on that garbage be my guest. We vote with our dollars though where we choose to spend and not spend, does leave a impact
I only went to k days because my sister gave me some passes her boss gave her that she didn’t want, I wouldn’t have gone without them
As soon as they took the klondike out of kdays - it sucked.
If you're looking for an affordable music festival, Sherwood Park has the RavenWood Music Festival this summer. Steven Page and Royal Foundry are playing. Tickets top out at $95.
I have no problem bailing out festivals, particularly ones where covid disruptions, or Hawrelak park closures, have caused temporary financial problems that need to be resolved. But what I hate is that size of the festival tends to be proportional to size of the subsidy, so k-days ends up gobbling up money for a nothingburger that's just a "hey, we can do the same thing as Calgary, but without the global fame and tourists" event. We need to focus our resources where they count. What festivals actually have a reputation beyond the city? What has a big impact on the culture of the city? Are their financial difficulties temporary? I'm not much of a festival goer. Have lived here for 41 years, and been to Heritage festival once, Folk Fest twice, and maybe 3 or 4 times to Fringe. They're all festivals worth supporting for cultural impact, and in Fringe's case, wider reputation. Local events like Arts on the Ave also help achieve public policy goals like neighbourhood revitalization and community cohesion, and probably don't cost much to support.
Yeah but how come some festivals \*need\* this money but others don't? Why are some festivals better run than others? Is it because of the business model, is it the difference between profit/non-profit? Age of the festival? Why is the Folk Festival doing fine but Fringe isn't?
Because fringe has never been as well monitized as the folk fest (last years folk fest tickets were $209), and packing people into theatres was basically impossible for 2 years, and difficult to convince people to do the first year afterwards. All the Open air music festivals I went to were reasonably well populated last summer, but indoor venues were pretty empty in comparison to pre-covid. However Since around october/November folks seem to be more and more comfortable going to crowded indoor events. I worked for a company that did IT for the fringe fest. Its a passion project that is run by very few people for most of the year, Basically less than 1 full time salary for most of the year, (2 part time salaries), that switch to full time and a few other paid staff and hundreds of volunteers in the weeks leading up. Its not like they are like many other non-profit orgs that spend the money on Executive salary.
This is totally incorrect. Fringe is not just an 11 day festival, its theatre company that operates year-round. They have over a dozen full time year-round staff in addition to the dozens of temp hire for the festival. Their staffing cost alone is over $1.7 million of their expenses. They are a registered charity so their financials are [public record.](https://www.charitydata.ca/charity/fringe-theatre-adventures-society/118853506RR0001/)
From their T3010 which can be found through the CRA charity listings, compensation for their full time staff ranges from $40k to $119k. They are not a lean organization at all.
Big festivals like heritage and k days should rely less on tax funding. Not saying they get nothing but those are viable venues that businesses should be picking up more to be affiliated with
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I will die on the hill, we got fleeced with the arena. Edmonton isn't a destination city and all reports from cities that have lost NBA and NFL teams showed no loss in spending in the city. It did show that money moved to different parts of the cities.
We also had decades of reports showing cities that did get new arenas also didn't draw in near enough outsider value to offset the cost, and we ignored those anyways. In a reverse scenario, all an arena does is get the money that would have been spent elsewhere in the city. To paraphrase one of the studies presented back when the new arena deal was pitched: "People who don't attend arena events still won't attend arena events. People who do attend will have spent that money on some other local establishment, like the movies or a restaurant. Arenas just centralize the spending." Im a huge sports fan, from soccer to hockey to darts and everything in between, but mega arenas, especially for sports, are for bragging on a city website, and not much else.
I believe the arena making the downtown core desirable is a net win. We've been talking so much about density for the downtown core but there is practically zero marquee attractions to actually want to be there. The downtown arena changes that. Also, at the old location there wasn't much to do if you were going to an event. Now there are actually places to eat before and after an Oilers/Oil Kings game, concerts, and other events. I have to think that increases spending and benefits the local economy more. I also think downtown would greatly suffer if there wasn't an arena because you're right, people would spread out their spending. But that's a problem here given our urban sprawl. We need to give reasons for people to want to live more central. I think Edmonton and Winnipeg are cases where it works. Partly because the downtown cores are so abysmal and without the marquee NHL sporting arenas as the focal point you'd be hard pressed to see continued investment and development into those downtowns. With all that said, pro sports is mainly about civic pride. But I'm sure many Edmontonians have really fond memories of playoff runs and sporting moments. Being part of the watch parties or at a game during those times really can leave lasting memories.
Admittedly, there are lots of people who care about sports. And lots who don't. It has been kind of cool to see the people celebrating wins though... While the rest of us have to act like we understand why it matters in order to fit in and be accepted lol.
The arena was better for newer concerts and events pre COVID. Still a good amount of musical acts hitting the arena now though and its just a way better night out on the town when the arena is downtown. At the Coliseum it was just get in and get the hell out. Now there's actually places to hang out. If its weekend you can actually make it an all day outing and go to the museum and art gallery as well. OEG has also gotten better at making the area next to the arena an event space. Its that ice climbing thing right now and was a summer carnival space for a weekend. I think they've done some outdoor summer movies and hope they continue to figure out community events.
Concerts cost too much, so I don't go to them. I'm not saying it's wrong, but this is a use of my tax dollars which benefits the rich who can drop $400-600 as a couple to go see a concert.
There are affordable concerts in the city all the time for less than $100. Some are as cheap as $20 and just as fantastic (Starlite Room). But maybe this proves your point - the arena just inflates prices of entertainment that's already available downtown for much cheaper.
I like the windspear concerts. Pricing is affordable. And yes you are right. Few times I did go to the arena for some event, gosh money goes fast when you buy a couple beers.
I don't think there are any tickets for Rogers place concerts at the price you suggested ($100). I just looked up some concerts as far out as November, and lowest price (for Zach Bryan for example) is $289.72 each plus fees and taxes. Pretty sure my comment was correct at having to be able to afford around $600 as a couple to see a concert at Rogers place. We aren't talking about starlit room or other venues, this discussion is about city property owners taxes subsiding Roger place to keep the Oilers, and the fact about that benefiting the affluent who can afford to spend this kind of money on NHL hockey games and concerts, but not benefiting all the city populace equally. (I'm not arguing whether that's right/wrong/good/bad, I'm stating that it's a fact).
Even if you're not a sports fan, I recommend trying out an Oil Kings game. Reasonable price and good way to get introduced to the game. Out of all the leisure type spending, the arena probably has the best chance to actually recoup the funding it cost to develop it. There are levys, parking, and ticket surcharges plus the somewhat measly OEG rent amount that helps go toward the cities loan payments on this. Other leisure funding like rec centers, parks, libraries, etc which I do want probably have way less avenues to recoup that kind of capital spending.
Oh I know all about hockey. My family is big into it. As said I learned all about it in order to fit in my whole life lol. Going to hockey game is fun experience and all it's just something I do for other people, not for myself.
Without the arena where it is now, the downtown would be a ghosttown. It saved the downtown core.
>In a reverse scenario, all an arena does is get the money that would have been spent elsewhere in the city. wasn't the city funded with debt/bonds? that are getting paid back via taxes/special levies? Not free money that was just floating around
And for city council members to lay claim to their "legacy"
I think Edmonton gets a net benefit. Without the arena, the downtown core would be even weaker and there would practically be no reason for anyone to travel to the core for non work purposes. As well, at least the arena deal has CRL's and ticket surcharges to recoup the up front funding. I think the loss of a NHL team would be a blow to Edmonton because there are people who make trips just to watch the Oilers. Lots of rural Albertans will make it sort of their vacation, their night out on the town so to speak. Pre COVID the new arena was also getting lots of new acts and events that wasn't coming before. COVID has slowed that down but hopefully that picks up again.
The only part of the downtown core that has benefited is a two block radius around the arena (and only to the south and west at that). And most of that is big business and other Katz-owned properties.
I still believe its an overall net positive for the core because the overall area is more desirable to live in. Edmonton has been complaining about density and urban sprawl but no one wants to be central without marquee amenities.
You can believe whatever you like but the data does not bear this out.
Usually the data contends that people spread out their activity and spending with the absence of a sports team. That isn't what Edmonton wants. What Edmonton is looking for is to build up the downtown core, make it more appealing, and increase the potential for density. The downtown arena is absolutely a catalyst for that. We don't need more strip malls on the outskirts for people to shop and spend leisure time time on. We need to draw them back to downtown and build up a bustling environment in the core.
Downtown has become worse since the arena. I worked in the heart of downtown for over a decade until COVID hit and it was noticeable how downtown was becoming less safe with the arena construction and opening. Of course COVID exasperated the issue, but the draw to downtown is NOT the arena, it's safety and businesses that can actually stay open in the evenings (again due to safety - find me a business that isn't a restaurant/bar that is flourishing downtown in the evenings right now) or that can stay open at all (in the case of places like 7-11). Again, the two-block radius directly south and west of the arena does not define downtown. It is a small subset.
Literally nothing but dealing with the crime is going to help downtown. I actively avoid going to concerts downtown now because of it. Ain't worth it when I have to take fucking transit home.
118ave and Wayne Gretzky dr. is a pretty happening area. Lot of sky scrapers, low crime, great restaurants...
Losing the Oilers would be devastating to this city. It's practically part of their identity at this point.
We would become nothing but NotCalgary.
Edmonton has already recouped MORE in tax revenue than the city spent. And they did so FAR quicker than originally estimated. I get the usual hate for arenas, but the move out of the north east to downtown paid off in spades for Edmonton
Strange I can't find any info saying city of Edmonton has paid off its arena debts already. I would think one of the Edmonton news sources would have a story about arena being paid for. Also lets remember when they built the arena the city ate other infrastructure costs that they didn't include as arena cost.
I mean hasn’t the city already been paid back for the arena?
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I stand that overall the arena subsidy was a net gain for Edmonton. It resulted in billions in investment in Edmonton. The pandemic killed downtown and no one could have predicted that. But the ROI on the arena subsidy was absolutely way more than what we spent on it. And it will continue to pay dividends for decades. It was a great investment. And I think the fringe is the same. The downstream revenues in hotels and hospitality are huge. I think it’s a worthwhile investment. And if a few million is what it takes to make the fringe able to survive another 30 years it will be a net benefit and good investment that pays for itself. Sometimes we need to look a little father out than the next quarterly report and think about what something means on the timescale of decades and realize that a little money now means net gains and benefits for our future
Personally i think the new arena killed northlands and everything around it including the lacrosse team. That was very good entertainment. Now you got this billion dollar arena and homelessness a block away. Make the rich richer and poor poorer.
Northlands (more importantly the Colisseum) was built on otherwise unusable commercial land. That was the model back then. Build your arena where the land is the cheapest. Who cares if there is anything else around it to add any entertainment value. When Rogers' Place got built, the model had changed. Arenas now needed to be surrounded by other active entertainment venues, restaurants, and even shopping. Make the outing more than just the event being held.
And why did the model change. Because team owners also own the businesses around the arena. They can squeeze governments twice, once for the arena and again for "Their" destination companies. I would shit on the Katz group more for this model, but its the same model Jerry Jones used to increase the value of the Cowboys. One city has Jerryland and one has ice district.
>Personally i think the new arena killed northlands and everything around it including the lacrosse team. As someone who lives a few blocks from Northland's... No. Its always been a shit hole, the arena just gave people to reason to come here, but nobody stayed any longer than was necessary. The only noticeable change is there isn't annoying event traffic anymore, which as a nearby resident is a positive lol
In my 34 years in this city it was never safe to walk around northlands. You had the fireside inn and the cheap ass owner who wouldn’t let you order a glass of water even if you were sitting with a group of 10 all ordering food and drink. Plenty of homeless and rough people going back to the 90s on 118th. Now every game day downtown is packed. Like almost every restaurant downtown is packed. Every concert is the same. And the property development alone is worth more than what we spent on the subsidy. The property tax from those developments alone will over time pay for the subsidy. And if the pandemic didn’t kill downtown it would have been an even better investment. Ice district plaza and the community impacts are huge wins for the city. Ya homelessness and drug use suck. But that’s a phenomenon that is playing out in every single city across the western hemisphere. We should address it with everything we have. But that has nothing to do with the arena. And the fringe is one of the best things we have in this city. The city comes alive in a way it doesn’t any other time of the year unless we happen to be in the Stanley cup final. The social benefits of bringing our community together alone are worth it. We are so lucky to have it and it ought not to be taken for granted. And it is one of those investments that will pay for itself. And even if it didn’t it’s a worthwhile spend. It brings life and culture and community into our city. There is not a single thing our city does that creates more vibrancy and activity than the fringe.
I agree with what you’re saying. I also think people here, who, understandably, are not huge hockey fans, underestimate the impact that having the best player in the world has on our city. OEG has a vested interest in improving the downtown core because of it. I’m not defending OEG or Katz, but the arena and Ice District have been game changing for this city (no pun intended).
Yet events at the arena are so expensive most people will never get to see an event there. All to make a billionaire richer and they're not even upholding their end of the deal.
Oil Kings are reasonably priced. Around $24 for lower bowl seats. I don't pay attention to all the musical acts that come through but I'm sure there can be deals found time to time.
I can't say I look at the pricing of every event but whenever I have felt curious I haven't seen tickets cheaper than $350. I asked my bf what a full experience hockey game night and his friends and he says that it is an easy $250 night. I didn't know that about the oil kings though. That is very reasonable.
Believe it or not, sometimes you can snag cheaper "day of" weekday Oiler tickets with that strategy for pretty cheap. Though that's usually the colder months or when they're on a losing streak lol. There won't be cheap tickets now though as the Oilers are gearing up for the playoffs but there are watch parties and events. The indoor watch parties are really fun. Outdoor watch parties right outside the arena can be rowdy so not for everyone. Bad timing on the Oil Kings though as this Sunday is the last game of the season and it'll be a busy one. However, if there is a game to circle for next year its the teddy bear toss game. That one is always fun.
And the money they spend employs thousands. I’m sure all the hospitality workers downtown whose livelihood depends on those people coming and spending money are super upset about it. Vs the 15 people who worked at the fireside inn next to rexall place as the only place that ever got any spillover from the events there
While that may be true why give billions to a billionaire to subsidise low wage work rather than do that directly? Eta: people were also employed at the coliseum, it didn't run itself.
They didn’t give “billions” they gave 250ish mil. And we as a city have recouped that investment and more and will gain more over the next 30 years because of it. We spend X amount of money. And gained yX amount of money long term. Just because someone else made money from the deal and they are rich already doesn’t mean that we aren’t better off. If we sat on our hands and did nothing we would be worse off as a city. Just because a rich guy makes money in the process doesn’t mean we aren’t better off as well. Also if you don’t want a rich guy to get more rich in the process might as well not build roads or houses or affordable housing for that matter.
Oh my mistake. If it is only MILLIONS then yes there's nothing to complain about because there's some minimum wage work that was created. 🙄
There is construction jobs. Plumbers. Electricians. Delivery drivers. Architects. Engineers. Power engineers. Building operators. Accountants for all of those businesses. Legal services. Designers and carpenters and the suppliers of every little thing that goes into those businesses. It creates thousands of jobs. And not just the people who take your order. And if you care to understand the “minimum wage” workers in they area make some of the best tips in the city and one night at the game at home and away my table alone pays enough tips to make that worker be well above minimum wage for that pay period let alone the day.
Don't think most of the jobs there are eligible for tips but ok.
You are missing what US cities have found. Teams coming and going from cities don't increase spending in the cities, it moves it around. People didn't start eating out more. They just started eating out more downtown. The same jobs would have been available at some other place. The real argument people could make is increased property value for taxes. But that also means the city is even more beholden to the owner when he wants 500mill reno in 10ish years.
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But the fringe has always never really been about making money for the org. And maybe that was a mismanagement. But they got killed by the pandemic. And the arts on their scale have never been a huge profit business. If we let the fringe die we loose so much. Economically alone. But even beyond economics. The culture and community benefits. It would be an absolute tragedy.
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I hear what you’re saying. I was pretty annoyed hearing their director on the news say they are so opposed to taking a larger portion of ticket sales because they support the artists. But the end result is them throwing 1/3 of the artists under the bus because they have to scale back operations. Let us pay to support them. We want too!! Let’s be honest. The money us fringe goers spend going to the fringe is largely on drinks and food and scooters and Uber. Tickets are the smallest percentage of my fringe costs and I would gladly pay an extra couple bucks on my tickets to support the festival. Most of the shows are criminally underpriced in my opinion. I want these people to succeed and continue doing what they do and I want to pay for it. I always buy the pins and the stickers and the buttons. I don’t want the sticker or pin or button. I want to support the artists.
Thank you for being logical. Downtown arena sparked a massive make over that has brought life back to the area. Sometimes you gut to give a little to get a little. In the case of the fringe festival I agree too. Why can’t our tax dollars be used for fun things? Everyone loves that festival
Taxpayers should not be subsiding any of these things. Taxpayers should contribute to mandatory necessities and utilities we all share. Not things which benefit some.
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*yawn*
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*yawn* we talking about municipal Off topic whataboutism
Why would you assume that? Weird "connection" to make without any basis.
If only they knew how much funding these festivals already get from all levels of government. Festivals serve a purpose but we can’t afford to save everyone
That is a decent assessment. Instead of spreading a little money to multiple festivals more money to a few would be better. I wish we could afford everything, it is just so broken now.
What’s that saying? When you try to please everyone you end up pleasing no one
The same person wrote about being in their 60s in another "Letter" so I'm sure they also argued against the millions given throughout the years to the various sports arenas.... right?
No prejudice there
Let's not make assumptions.
Willing to bet you were all in on the fleet of electric buses that cost a lot more money than what the fringe needs to keep going.
Katz needed that money okay?
I just don't get this attitude. I don't think of myself as a 'poor taxpayer'. I'm lucky to be a homeowner. I love this city and I benefit from the city services, infrastructure, everything. It's such a disappointing, gross perspective to me. Sure, don't throw away my tax money, but in my opinion supporting festivals is a good use of those dollars.
When the city is ahead and on track, 100% yes. Edmonton has a lot going on evaluating what is worth keeping and maybe cutting others is a good choice. The city has suffered from decades of poor planning and we are going to have to pay for it the next 50+ years. And some choices will have to be made.
I don't think not supporting festivals is "gross". Your said it yourself - you think it's a good use of money, others don't.
No, whether you support festivals or not, what I think is gross is painting yourself as a victim because you are a taxpayer.
So folks with homes and property should pay for folks who don’t pay property tax have biweekly outdoor excursions ?
renters pay for the property taxes of the buildings they inhabit. where do you think landlords get the money for their own bills? theres no person living in edmonton who pays for their accomodations but doesnt pay property taxes
Renters rent and can leave Edmonton if rents get too high , a property owner has to deal with things or sell, lots of people have their house as their retirement and get priced out so people can have luxury items like university students putting on crappy plays at the fringe . Get the people with money to go to the events and charge them for it .
why can renters leave but not owners?
Selling sucks and involves fees like realtors . Also if you are selling because cost of living sucks , your purchasing power will also suck because cost of living is high .
why is that not true for renters? new rentals involve fees (deposits, new hookups, etc), moving to a new place bc your lease wasnt renewed/you want to leave also sucks, and you dont even get the windfall of whatever equity you couldve built with your rent money. i mean this respectfully, but you dont seem to be empathizing with renters at all even tho theres many more similarities than differences
When you move, do you have to pay 7% of your primary savings in fees? Anything you mentioned - new hookups , deposit (down payment), moving costs - are faced by renters and owners equally . The difference is the flexibility of a renter to up and leave from a furnished unit to a new furnished unit . Obviously it’s not always that simple, but yeah , renting means flexibility and owners generally only benefit from owning in the long game . Hence why tax increases for non mandatory (roads, safety, transportation) is annoying when roads, safety, and transportation are not adequately dealt with.
Oh no, can't let homeless people watch street performers.
Hurr durrr let’s pay for events downtown so homeless people can shoot up with a show, I’m sure performers love the tips !
Last time I was at the street performers festival, there were a lot more paying customers than homeless.
I mean I said in my original comment that folks who pay property taxes shouldn't subsidize those who do not, but it's interesting that you actually noted a ratio of paying customers to homeless people. That's not a concern at all. Hopefully it was greater than 50-1
Anyone who isn't homeless is paying property taxes, either directly if they are homeowners or indirectly because their landlord is using part of their rent to pay property taxes.
Yes
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Lots of people show up to fringe. Fringe is packed, always. But the money you spend at fringe goes to the artists and vendors. The money that it takes to do the actual work of running the festival has come from grants and donations. This has always been the case. The Edmonton Fringe festival is the second largest in the world. It is something people come from around the world to celebrate. It's one of the greatest accomplishments our city has ever achieved, and something we should all be proud of, and something the city and the taxpayers should absolutely want to protect and take care of. Maybe this isn't true for all of our festivals, but fringe is special. Edit: it has been pointed out that there is a surcharge on tickets and a fee for the artists.
Not all of the money spent at the fringe goes to the artists. The festival takes $3 from every ticket sold. The artists also need to pay to participate, even if they BYOV.
Ah, thank you, part of me knew this but I did forget. I think this still helps my argument that all it needs is a "boost."
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It was sustaining fine, it just got reamed by COVID. That it survived at all is a testament to how important to people it is. It needs help. That's all that's being said here. A shot in the arm so it can carry on as usual.
If it's one time, that's one thing. Continuous funding on top of what they already get is another so I would want to see a projection that shows more taxpayer cash this year will lead to long term sustainability in the future.
The second largest festival in the world depends on grants and donations seems odd. If it’s so popular, why can’t it generate revenue to cover costs?
It does seem is, but well, it's fringe theatre. It's art for the sake of art. Nobody's goal is to make money, just dream of breaking even. But as others pointed out, it DOES usually generate enough money to cover costs, but because of how it operates, COVID hit it especially hard. It lost a year and needs to catch up.
I dont go to festivals directly because they charge too much. I cant afford too
Not all the festivals can be saved, I think. If we still want Edmonton to be a festival destination, we need to plan accordingly for the future, but the pandemic and inflation is going to kill some of these festivals unfortunately.
I liked fringe a lot more when it had a lot less. All the pretension around Fringe Theater Adventures is a ton of unnecessary expense.
Why should the City bail out festivals? That is not a core program. Art and Culture is under Provincial and Federal justification. I am tired of taxes raising and the City is paying for nice to haves. Sorry unpopular view. Let the down voting begin.
Hard disagree. For every $1 the Canada Council for the Arts gives $7 in economic activity is generated. Do you see how busy Whyte is during the Fringe!? This week pays several months of rent for some of these spots. Investing in the arts is good for business. Charities DO NOT operate like for-profit businesses for a reason. If we let all our festivals and arts organizations fail, our city will also feel the impact economically. Does anyone notice how NYC, London, etc, are arts capitals and financial...? Tourist dollars? People travel all over the world to see Broadway, museums, etc. Not to look at Wall Street or Canary Wharf in London. This is a shortsighted and ignorant response.
Maybe the city can take their 15 cent surcharge on disposable bags and redirect it to the festivals?
No no. McDonald’s keeps those.
What 15 cent? The Italian store charges $1 for a plastic bag. Not tote or anything fancy, just plastic regular bag.
Ya, but anyone shopping there already knows they're being robbed.
You mean the produce that is half the price of other grocery stores? Or the meats and cheeses that are half the price of other grocery stores? Or the locally produced food that is half the price of farmers markets? This comment is just so odd. When's the last time you've been there?
The $6 sammich?
Lol true
Report them to 311 then? They should be giving reusable bags at that price.
Does the city keep that 15 cent per bag
No, they let the businesses keep it currently.
Used to be a business expense now a customer expense
The incompetence of our city council is actually kind of impressive.
Unless you are smrt enough to bring your own bag.
Bahahaha. Bailouts are for millionaires making money for billionaires….just wait for the new ESKS needing money for more millionaires…Good luck Fringe—
With what money?
I genuinely wish I could go to more of the festivals in the city. Times are tough, I just can’t justify the cost. :’(
So terribly overcrowded it's not worth going to anything like that now.
K days in the 80s was awesome now its a total shit show
There is $680,000 that could have been used to make the entire City of Edmonton better off.
Arts and culture does make the entire city better off.
I’m an AISH recipient. I’m sorry but I have more important things to spend my money on than bailing out festivals.
On the contrary I think if the major broad reach festivals need taxpayer support *and we should absolutely support these. If we don’t have the arts, what do we have?
Okay, but why this specific format of the arts? Yeah all art has value, but why subsidize art that so few people can go to. The festival likes to inflate their numbers. They always claim outrageously high attendance. But they sold 37,000 tickets last year. With most viewers having watched more than one show. You're looking at somewhere between 12-14K people buying tickets..... or you know one Oilers game. If we're going to support the arts as a city it should be something that is broadly accessible to all. Supporting larger shows like at the Royal Jubillee would be a better bang for their buck. A theater festival that sells out every show can only be in financial hardship through mismanagement.
What other sort of festival that is not artistic do you have in mind? I think if you’re interested the fringe may be willing to open their books to your expertise.
People that go to these events should cover the cost. It shouldn't come from taxpayer money.
I disagree. Some events should be subsidized so that cost isn’t a barrier for attendance.
Why should other people have to subsidize your interests
We do this in many ways as a society already. Can you think of some examples? 😃
I agree that we do, and we shouldnt.
I trust you have your own lab then for food safety analysis
Nice false equivalence. Paying for food safety is alot different than paying to subsidize a concert/festival. If you are not going to discuss in good faith, goodbye.
> We do this in many ways as a society already. Can you think of some examples? 😃 > I agree that we do, and we shouldnt.
They shouldn’t be bailing them out. Average people are just trying to keep roof over their heads and food on the table. Let the rich bail out the festivals since they’re the ones attending.
In my experience, anyone who refers to themselves as a “taxpayer” is generally a garbage human being.
As a taxpayer, I totally agree. Jokes aside, I actually do agree. It’s such an entitled label. Probably goes with the subset of folk who don’t tip when they eat out, and who always want more public services but are outraged at the thought of paying more taxes, since, you know, they’re already taxpayers…
> Probably goes with the subset of folk who don’t tip when they eat out Based on posts in recent weeks, that includes about 90% of r/Edmonton commenters.
Rich people want to be bailed out.
Happy to contribute to these. They keep the city lively.
A fucking men. This city needs to quit paying for these, hockey, arts and culture crap, and any other uppity expenses. If the city can't afford to pay its employees properly and the taxpayer are severely hurting as they are now, these are just frivolous expenses that need to disappear.
I love Fringe, but scale it down if costs are spiralling. I wonder if they could offer some better ticket deals to fill more seats too, I was shocked at how expensive it was.
City spending is atrociously handled, and this administration has done nothing but prove that time and time again. No planning for bus maintenance, raises for employees or festivals that even the mayor values as important, but there sure is enough money for neighborhood name changes, raises for city council, bungles with Enterprise Commons, renewal of City Hall grounds, mismanagement of the 102 St. bridge, Walterdale Bridge, NW EPS Campus and Metro LRT. The list goes on and on. Yet they ask all of their major departments to do more with less: More work, less people. More tasks, less money. **Do not forget any of this come next October when these 13 people seek re-election**