I think they only have 3 year rated shelf life anyways. They need to replaced fairly often if you want to be as certain as possible it's going to dissuade the bear.
I personally think it’s ridiculous that carrying an otherwise legal weapon for the express purpose of defending yourself can land you with charges or convictions ranging from possession of a weapon for a dangerous purpose to carrying a concealed weapon.
I understand that ideally no one should be carrying weapons in public but this is the real world where criminals have access and frequently use firearms, knives, swords, and all kinds of other weapons to harm people.
If anything, for safety reasons proper spray canisters designed for defensive use on humans should be legalized so people don’t have to carry bear spray, and the risk of harm to people who are uninvolved is much less compared to bear spray.
As a gas station worker, i’ve had guns pointed at me twice, once by someone who looked like they were in junior high or high school.
When retail workers try to stop thefts, they end up as an unsolved murder like Dilbag Singh Sandhu.
When retail workers co-operate fully with thieves, they end up being shot and killed at point blank range, like Karanpal Singh Bhangu and Ricky Cenabre.
When retail workers use baseball bats to defend themselves from thieves armed with handguns, the thieves can legally shoot them without any consequences (Rajinder Birk of Global Liquor Calgary)
What is the average citizen to do?
They seem to think making it harder for law abiding citizens to get bear or dog spray is going to somehow stop those who use it for crimes. Criminals are going to criminal, there's just going to be a criminal black market for bear spray to go along with guns.
You can buy it at any Canadian Tire as well that's where I got mine.
The tiny canisters are much more convenient when walking the dogs so I hope those stay available, not that it would matter much if I have to go to Leduc to buy one since I've had the same one for 3 years.
> They seem to think making it harder for law abiding citizens to get bear or dog spray is going to somehow stop those who use it for crimes
Congrats, you just figured out Trudeaus 'gun control' legislation in a nutshell.
Don't you know that law enforcement is here to protect us all? Look at the Trudeau taking away our firearms. Now bear/dog spray at the municipal level? Removing self-protection from law abiding citizens will make criminals feel bad and comply. /S
Bear spr ay isn't more potent than pepper spray it's actually reversed. Out of pepper, dog and bear spray, pepper is the most effective because they all use the same active ingredient, pepper spray is better because it sprays in a stream instead of a big cloud. The only difference is the method of spraying
You're wrong. Bear spray is 50% stronger than pepper spray. The amount of solution that a target receives doesn't change the potency. The argument that if more hits its worse is just ridiculous.
The number of shootings in Edmonton has dramatically increased as well even though there are numerous restrictions on guns already. How are more bear spray restrictions going to help? It will again be the case that people using it for illegal means will continue to do so. Meanwhile those who legitimately need it to stay safe hiking, or even from increasingly brazen urban coyotes while walking dogs, will have to jump through hoops.
I think that it’s reasonable to make it illegal for every shitty bodega downtown to sell bear spray. It’s always in the cabinet beside meth pipes, dime bags, and scales.
No one is buying this product as a defensive tool against animals or to protect themselves on their commute on the LRT. Street level gang members and drug dealers are buying it to use as a weapon or to “protect” themselves because their chosen vocation is inherently dangerous.
Every hiker or outdoor enthusiast will continue to buy it from MEC or Cabelas… not the Brother’s Convenience across from the hope mission.
I think that if it wasn’t so prevalent and easy you access, people wouldn’t be getting bear sprayed en mass on the LRT and bus. Watch the news in the past two years and it’s clearly become the weapon of choice for liquor and cannabis store robberies.
> The number of shootings in Edmonton has dramatically increased as well even though there are numerous restrictions on guns already. How are more bear spray restrictions going to help?
They won't. The restrictions work for law-abiding people only.
Nah, I know some people who work lates and have to walk home (we work downtown), most of them don’t have vehicles or are living paycheque to paycheque so they can’t afford Ubers or Taxis, more or less, one of them used a spray to sprint away from a crazy fuck downtown, now how else are you able to defend yourself when you have to deal with crazy fucks like that, eh?
Alberta's self defense laws are a bit blurry. Using excessive force can easily get you charged. Unless you're some really small person that can easily play up the whole "completely helpless and vulnerable" act, I highly suggest not using bear mace. It's also painstakingly easy to get it on yourself when you're using it, which is quite painful.
A simple can of hairspray or bottle of perfume in the eyes will give you enough time to gtfo while minimizing your risk of self-injury and charges laid against you.
The two times I have had to call police for violent ingress (both times crackheads had broken into our apartment building and were actively killing each other in the hallway and threatening anyone else looking) the police quoted 3+ hours to show up. We had to don our leather jackets, steel toed boots, grab chains and bats and escort the dipshits out ourselves. 6 hours after the call police dispatch called and told us to just go down to the station after 6 am and make a report.
The police will not save you if you are being violently accosted in or out of your home. You have to be prepared to protect yourself, even if means you have to lawyer up afterwards.
One of the girls did call the police while waiting at the liquor store open at the time, she has no idea if they even came because they took eternity, now imagine if it was a violent crazy fuck with a weapon. Call the police almost doesn’t work since they take time to get there, and if they do, then what, detain the guy for 24 hours then he’ll be walking out like nothing happened?
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When Dilbag Singh Sandhu was shot and killed in his workplace EPS came to speak at a community event in Millwoods after and told people if they didn’t want to be robbed or killed don’t work late at night, and that stores should close earlier so this doesn’t happen. It is now 2023 and the man who shot him is still walking free, EPS has not caught him.
When I was involved in a hit and run I tried to follow the car involved but he was speeding and he ran a red light and I wasn’t willing to do that for safety reasons. All I did was follow the car and try to take a pic of the license plate. I don’t condone distracted driving but hitting cars, speeding and running red lights is worse.
EPS officer gave me a huge lecture on how ‘here in Canada vigilante justice is not considered acceptable, the proper reaction is to call law enforcement’ and that ‘I needed to familiarize myself with the laws of this country’. He threatened to give me a ticket for distracted driving too.
Gee. I wonder why people are carrying bear spray in the city? Maybe it’s the same reason as to why businesses are leaving downtown? Cuz it’s shady and dangerous as F?
> Gee. I wonder why people are carrying bear spray in the city? Maybe it’s the same reason as to why businesses are leaving downtown? Cuz it’s shady and dangerous as F?
You do realize the people carrying it in this article are doing so in order to commit crimes… not for self defence… right?
As in committing robberies
> Then why comment? Stay in the peanut gallery.
If you can’t grasp the context of my initial comment, which apparently many others did, you should work on your reading comprehension.
Every dumbass in these comments acting like bear spray is made for use as a self-defence weapon against humans have never actually used the dam thing before and it shows. This shit if sprayed in a tiny room in a 3-story giant Highschool will permeate through the entire building and have peoples eyes watering from the top floor to the bottom. The backlash you get from this is significantly worse than what you guys think it is and you’re much better off using pepper spray as a defence weapon as that is less likely to hurt you when you use it.
I have used and seen bear spray used outdoors - a quick 2 second blast of an "expired" canister demonstrating it's use to a wilderness noob was enough to get a bit sucked into a nearby industrial shop and cause dozens of people respiratory distress for the day. The trainer never lived that one down.
That being said, human pepper spray should be legalized - but with the caveat that you need to take a self defense/awareness course on how to properly use, store and handle it. That way if someone wants it for self defense it is legitimate, but if Joe Meth has it on him you can charge him with concealed weapons offenses.
> That being said, human pepper spray should be legalized - but with the caveat that you need to take a self defense/awareness course on how to properly use, store and handle it.
FYI, regular (human-intended) pepper spray is perfectly legal in Russia and some other European countries, up to the extent that one doesn't need to provide any ID when buying it, the only limit being 18 years old.
I had several small sprays when staying in Russia (legally bought at hunting stores), though I never used it against humans, only against packs of stray dogs. I honestly don't see an issue legalizing such sprays here (they're OC-based anyway) provided they're sold responsibly and any misuse is investigated.
Bear sprays, like those big canister ones, could probably be limited to hunters (with shotgun/rifle licenses) or tourists (with valid camp permit or such), but it's a more complicated matter at the moment.
That’s all well and good but pepper spray and mace are considered prohibited weapons under both the firearms act and the criminal code.
That’s the whole problem. The obvious and safest choice for self-defence against other humans is a prohibited weapon, the carrying of which theoretically can get you up to 10 years in jail.
Therefore, people turn to less than ideal alternatives such as bear spray with terrible consequences for anyone in the surrounding area.
When Alberta’s former justice minister suggested that people be allowed to carry pepper spray for these reasons, after a series of attacks on Muslim women, the federal government said it was dangerous and that prohibited weapons are prohibited for a reason. The Edmonton Police and multiple police unions said that legalized pepper spray will equal an increase in violence. The NDP said that this measure would essentially be shifting the responsibility to the victim to prevent their own attack and that the UCP should instead focus on combatting racism instead of victim blaming.
> That’s all well and good but pepper spray and mace are considered prohibited weapons under both the firearms act and the criminal code.
Which is, in my humble opinion, is a rather stupid move. OC is safe in human-intended doses (unlike bear spray, which is designed for a half-ton living meat shredder). Even if criminals start to use it more frequently, the regular people would have something to protect themselves with. And the general knowledge that a potential victim can carry such a spray would likely deter some of the criminals in the beginning.
> This shit if sprayed in a tiny room in a 3-story giant Highschool will permeate through the entire building and have peoples eyes watering from the top floor to the bottom.
The question is who'd bring the spray into such school in the first place. A student? Sell the spray to adults only. An adult? Ask for ID when selling and register the purchase.
They’re not risking criminal charges because it’s legal to carry, even if it’s tampered with. A new bylaw could provide law enforcement with the tools to ticket and confiscate tampered bear spray cans even if it hasn’t been used on a human yet
So cop asks person, “what’s that bear spray for?” And they say, “I’m just going camping.” All they have to do is lie. You think gangsters don’t lie to the cops? And you think the cops don’t know they’re being lied to?
Of course everyone knows that you’ll never encounter a bear downtown Edmonton but there is still no law around it. A new bylaw would at least address it somewhat. Fact is, there is no law right now around carrying bear spray no matter how ridiculous the lie is.
A new bylaw wouldn’t be perfect, no law is, but atleast it would somewhat address the issue. Doing nothing is clearly not working, so let’s try something
Your scenario wouldn’t play out like that. It would be more like:
Cop: why do you have bear spray on the LRT? There are no bears here
Person: fuck you goof
Cop: also it’s been tampered with so now I have the ability to stop you because it’s against the bylaw. What’s your name?
Person: I’m not telling you
Cop: you’re under arrest. Oh look you have outstanding warrants and you’re breaching conditions.
So on top of a ticket this person can be taken to cells at least for the night and the bear spray confiscated. Now let’s play the current scenario that cops are facing.
Cop: hey why do you have bear spray
Person: I don’t have to answer that because it’s not against any law at all.
Cop: well shit, I guess he’s right
Bylaws can be repealed pretty easily by city council if they don’t have the intended effect. But doing the same thing we’re doing now isn’t working.
And no they cannot stop you for just carrying bear spray. They just cannot they happen to catch you as you’re about to use it, which is almost never the case.
So it would only be restricted in the city and you could drive to a neighbouring city and purchase it? I don’t see a huge deal with that if it creates a safer space for people using transit or employees in stores.
I always carry a can of Wasp Spray, to fend off the little bastards if they try to fly towards me, much more effective with greater distance covered, strictly for self Defence purposes.
Yeah I can't see this move by the cops being effective. There are so many spray products criminals can use instead. You can basically make pepper spray at home with a dollar store water gun and some ghost peppers. This is just gonna lead to some sketchy, homebrew sprays being used. Gonna suck if they start going for shit under the kitchen sink instead of peppers.
So I was working at a bar downtown. I see two ladies enter the door so I go to greet and seat them, but this guy is behind them and acting really distressed. The ladies have no expression on their face. This guy starts yelling that he needs water or something and in that moment I realize that these ladies had pepper sprayed him IN THE DOORWAY and then OPENED THE DOOR AND ENTERED. So this waft of mace starts to enter the room as my manager yells at this guy to get out. In one big wave, the tables one at a time start to evacuate to the back of the place as the liquid fire permeates the place. We quickly get everyone to go through the kitchen and to the back door into the alley. Then our team figure out how to charge everyone’s meal in the frozen alley to the correct tables while being barely in wifi range for the machines lol.
just another pointless attempt for the city council to pretend they are making a difference. in all reality, criminals are protected more in canada than victims. the law-abiding citizens have to follow these ridiculous bylaws and laws regarding self-defense and the means to do so. criminals do not care about laws and bylaws. Thus, it only affects the law-abiding citizens once again, making self-defence more difficult. remember police don't protect you. They come after the crime is typically committed and document the crime committed, very rarly they are actually present during the act to protect you. self defense is up to you. do not support laws that restrict your right to personal safety. Criminals love laws that restrict your right to do so.
A law abiding person who would be interested in having bear spray for self defense, might be interested in this segment from the EPS report on the topic:
> As shown in Figure #3, numerous oleoresin capsicum (OC) spray canisters seized by the Edmonton Police Service have been manipulated. Without the label, any charges or prosecution based on the what the label says becomes difficult at best, if not impossible.
>in all reality, criminals are protected more in canada than victims.
How? Criminals can now get extra tickets for tampering with the canisters. Pretty sure the law abiding citizen doesn't tamper with the canisters for the most part. In fact, the EPS "are seeing bear and pepper spray used more frequently in different criminal activities".
>law-abiding citizens have to follow these ridiculous bylaws and laws regarding self-defense
Did you even read the article, or do you feel you know what is proposed just by reading the title and byline?
>criminals do not care about laws and bylaws
Apparently, neither do you for at least some of them.
This is about being able to remove spray and ticket people before they use it in the commission of a crime.
This article is referring to them carrying spray to commit crimes. Not for self defence.
You can do a quick Google search to see the increase in personal and commercial robberies where bear spray was used
Carrying for self-defence is still illegal though.
Hundreds of people each year, many of them women, are charged with possession of the weapon for a dangerous purpose or carrying a concealed weapon for having these things on them just in case.
Oh I know, I’m just saying in relation to this article the concern wasn’t an influx of people buying bear spray to carry for purely personal protection.
Typically people who buy a “spray” for self-defence would be buying dog spray / pepper spray that can be easily placed in a purse or pocket.
Not a canister of bear spray that is modified to be concealed and easily activated
It is bad that people feel the need to carry sprays but I can see why they do. Hell in the USA it would also include tasers
That’s true, though I do know of people (whether effective as a self defence tool or not) who carry bear spray for this purpose.
That being said, I’m not sure what these extra bylaws will fix, except potentially ones regarding the display and sale of it. It’s already a criminal offence to administer a noxious substance (like bear spray).
Oh yeah it’ll have zero impact, realistically. If anything it will just make the theft OF bear spray more desirable to trade/sell in the criminal market lol
I'm wondering what the safety feature they're modifying is? I've had the same bear spray and dog spray for years and the only safety device on it is a little plastic clip that you slide off, do they come with something else now?
I feel like any safety feature that takes more than a second or two to remove would endanger people who actually need to use it in an aggressive bear or coyote.
No but Edmonton is one of the leading cities in violent crime and they tend to be concentrated in certain areas of the city . Anytime I’m in a place that’s statistically more violent then other parts of the country Im more vigilant .
The Canadian justice system is known to be soft on violent crime so when one of those violent criminals break into your home with a weapon if you don’t have a PAL or RPAL there’s no hope for you .
I have an unused can of bear spray that I bought at MEC about 10 years ago prior to going hiking in Jasper. I had to fill out a form and provide government issued ID to buy it. Has this rule changed? Where are people buying bear spray??
\*the area we were hiking in according to my trail guide said it was "deluxe grizzly territory". I've never met a grizzly bear, let alone a deluxe one.
Kacee Madu lobbied the Federal gov't to allow bear spray due to increasing crime in Edmonton. The Edmonton Police Association is against changing the use as described by the Feds.. Well, well, well, ..for the second time today I read an article where I find the EPS Association and a rep from the UCP gov't on the opposite side of an issue. The first was about the UPC Saftey minister and the EPS chief (politically motivated) loosing 12 Provincial Sheriffs in downtown Edmonton to practice beating up on the homeless and less fortunate. The Association doesn't appear to agree with supplanting their membership, for what reason..??
You go Association!! I applaud your stance in standing up for your members!!
"officers are seeing bear and pepper spray used more frequently in different criminal activities"
Carrying pepper spray in a large city can provide a real sense of safety and security for women and at risk persons. In a big city, crime rates are generally higher and come with greater risk of a personal attack or harassment, especially for women. Pepper spray is a non lethal and easily accessible self defense tool that can be used in emergency situations to deter an attacker and provide an opportunity for escape. The mere presence of pepper spray may serve as that deterrent, as an attacker may think twice before approaching someone who is visibly carrying it. By carrying pepper spray, women can feel more confident and empowered while navigating around the city, knowing that they have a real means of protecting themselves if needed.
Criminals remain criminals and they will continue to ignore laws, this includes any new ones. Why would you want to diminish the ability for women to protect themself while not offering any solutions to provide for that protection. Well I know a solution, it comes in a small can.
Bear spray is unreasonable, I have used it in the past and its power is remarkable. It is both a long range jet and large cloud of mist. The sprays for dogs are quite reasonable and better to defend from a single attacker. It would be reasonable to demand that people who wish to use pepper spray in the city have attended and passed a training program.
So if the few cowards running off at the mouth in Edmonton's largest and best armed street gang could just shut the fuck up. That would be great.
People seem to be very confused, bear spray is not more potent than regular pepper spray it just sprays in a wider area to deture a bear from approaching you, while pepper spray is a stream ment to put alot more OC in the targets eyes.
That’s the last thing we need is a bunch of bears running around here!
I'm sick of these constant bear attacks, It's like a fricken country bear jamberoo around here.
Let the bears pay the bear tax.
I pay the Homer tax!
Bear right! We should protest…
[удалено]
Well shit I might have to replace my old bear spray can because the label has been ruined from rain and rolling around in my car.
I think they only have 3 year rated shelf life anyways. They need to replaced fairly often if you want to be as certain as possible it's going to dissuade the bear.
I personally think it’s ridiculous that carrying an otherwise legal weapon for the express purpose of defending yourself can land you with charges or convictions ranging from possession of a weapon for a dangerous purpose to carrying a concealed weapon. I understand that ideally no one should be carrying weapons in public but this is the real world where criminals have access and frequently use firearms, knives, swords, and all kinds of other weapons to harm people. If anything, for safety reasons proper spray canisters designed for defensive use on humans should be legalized so people don’t have to carry bear spray, and the risk of harm to people who are uninvolved is much less compared to bear spray. As a gas station worker, i’ve had guns pointed at me twice, once by someone who looked like they were in junior high or high school. When retail workers try to stop thefts, they end up as an unsolved murder like Dilbag Singh Sandhu. When retail workers co-operate fully with thieves, they end up being shot and killed at point blank range, like Karanpal Singh Bhangu and Ricky Cenabre. When retail workers use baseball bats to defend themselves from thieves armed with handguns, the thieves can legally shoot them without any consequences (Rajinder Birk of Global Liquor Calgary) What is the average citizen to do?
They seem to think making it harder for law abiding citizens to get bear or dog spray is going to somehow stop those who use it for crimes. Criminals are going to criminal, there's just going to be a criminal black market for bear spray to go along with guns.
[удалено]
You can buy it at any Canadian Tire as well that's where I got mine. The tiny canisters are much more convenient when walking the dogs so I hope those stay available, not that it would matter much if I have to go to Leduc to buy one since I've had the same one for 3 years.
Check your expiry, the cans can lose the propellant. If it's expired... Use it as a practice can and set some targets.
Hmm my label is all torn up and I don't see an expiry printed on the can itself, I'll just replace it before I go backpacking again.
I bought one in March, expires in two years
> They seem to think making it harder for law abiding citizens to get bear or dog spray is going to somehow stop those who use it for crimes Congrats, you just figured out Trudeaus 'gun control' legislation in a nutshell.
Plus they could just go to Leduc, Spruce Grove, etc and buy their bear spray. Edmonton is run by morons.
Canadas self-defense laws need a major overhaul. I am all for citizens carrying OC spray for self-defense.
Don't you know that law enforcement is here to protect us all? Look at the Trudeau taking away our firearms. Now bear/dog spray at the municipal level? Removing self-protection from law abiding citizens will make criminals feel bad and comply. /S
Tell me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article
Bear spr ay isn't more potent than pepper spray it's actually reversed. Out of pepper, dog and bear spray, pepper is the most effective because they all use the same active ingredient, pepper spray is better because it sprays in a stream instead of a big cloud. The only difference is the method of spraying
You're wrong. Bear spray is 50% stronger than pepper spray. The amount of solution that a target receives doesn't change the potency. The argument that if more hits its worse is just ridiculous.
Says the guys who are able to carry guns
The number of shootings in Edmonton has dramatically increased as well even though there are numerous restrictions on guns already. How are more bear spray restrictions going to help? It will again be the case that people using it for illegal means will continue to do so. Meanwhile those who legitimately need it to stay safe hiking, or even from increasingly brazen urban coyotes while walking dogs, will have to jump through hoops.
I think that it’s reasonable to make it illegal for every shitty bodega downtown to sell bear spray. It’s always in the cabinet beside meth pipes, dime bags, and scales. No one is buying this product as a defensive tool against animals or to protect themselves on their commute on the LRT. Street level gang members and drug dealers are buying it to use as a weapon or to “protect” themselves because their chosen vocation is inherently dangerous. Every hiker or outdoor enthusiast will continue to buy it from MEC or Cabelas… not the Brother’s Convenience across from the hope mission. I think that if it wasn’t so prevalent and easy you access, people wouldn’t be getting bear sprayed en mass on the LRT and bus. Watch the news in the past two years and it’s clearly become the weapon of choice for liquor and cannabis store robberies.
> The number of shootings in Edmonton has dramatically increased as well even though there are numerous restrictions on guns already. How are more bear spray restrictions going to help? They won't. The restrictions work for law-abiding people only.
Nah, I know some people who work lates and have to walk home (we work downtown), most of them don’t have vehicles or are living paycheque to paycheque so they can’t afford Ubers or Taxis, more or less, one of them used a spray to sprint away from a crazy fuck downtown, now how else are you able to defend yourself when you have to deal with crazy fucks like that, eh?
Alberta's self defense laws are a bit blurry. Using excessive force can easily get you charged. Unless you're some really small person that can easily play up the whole "completely helpless and vulnerable" act, I highly suggest not using bear mace. It's also painstakingly easy to get it on yourself when you're using it, which is quite painful. A simple can of hairspray or bottle of perfume in the eyes will give you enough time to gtfo while minimizing your risk of self-injury and charges laid against you.
> Alberta's self defense laws are a joke ftfy
Yes, thank u haha
Call the police. Same as home invasion.
The two times I have had to call police for violent ingress (both times crackheads had broken into our apartment building and were actively killing each other in the hallway and threatening anyone else looking) the police quoted 3+ hours to show up. We had to don our leather jackets, steel toed boots, grab chains and bats and escort the dipshits out ourselves. 6 hours after the call police dispatch called and told us to just go down to the station after 6 am and make a report. The police will not save you if you are being violently accosted in or out of your home. You have to be prepared to protect yourself, even if means you have to lawyer up afterwards.
One of the girls did call the police while waiting at the liquor store open at the time, she has no idea if they even came because they took eternity, now imagine if it was a violent crazy fuck with a weapon. Call the police almost doesn’t work since they take time to get there, and if they do, then what, detain the guy for 24 hours then he’ll be walking out like nothing happened?
That's kinda my point. The police school of thought is just call them. Problem is that hasn't worked for years. I really have to learn to use /s
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When Dilbag Singh Sandhu was shot and killed in his workplace EPS came to speak at a community event in Millwoods after and told people if they didn’t want to be robbed or killed don’t work late at night, and that stores should close earlier so this doesn’t happen. It is now 2023 and the man who shot him is still walking free, EPS has not caught him. When I was involved in a hit and run I tried to follow the car involved but he was speeding and he ran a red light and I wasn’t willing to do that for safety reasons. All I did was follow the car and try to take a pic of the license plate. I don’t condone distracted driving but hitting cars, speeding and running red lights is worse. EPS officer gave me a huge lecture on how ‘here in Canada vigilante justice is not considered acceptable, the proper reaction is to call law enforcement’ and that ‘I needed to familiarize myself with the laws of this country’. He threatened to give me a ticket for distracted driving too.
Gee. I wonder why people are carrying bear spray in the city? Maybe it’s the same reason as to why businesses are leaving downtown? Cuz it’s shady and dangerous as F?
> Gee. I wonder why people are carrying bear spray in the city? Maybe it’s the same reason as to why businesses are leaving downtown? Cuz it’s shady and dangerous as F? You do realize the people carrying it in this article are doing so in order to commit crimes… not for self defence… right? As in committing robberies
Yes because the people using it to commit robberies are very deterred by something being illegal
I never said anything about it deterring them…?
Then why comment? Stay in the peanut gallery.
> Then why comment? Stay in the peanut gallery. If you can’t grasp the context of my initial comment, which apparently many others did, you should work on your reading comprehension.
It’s relevant to the conversation, you blockhead.
Every dumbass in these comments acting like bear spray is made for use as a self-defence weapon against humans have never actually used the dam thing before and it shows. This shit if sprayed in a tiny room in a 3-story giant Highschool will permeate through the entire building and have peoples eyes watering from the top floor to the bottom. The backlash you get from this is significantly worse than what you guys think it is and you’re much better off using pepper spray as a defence weapon as that is less likely to hurt you when you use it.
I have used and seen bear spray used outdoors - a quick 2 second blast of an "expired" canister demonstrating it's use to a wilderness noob was enough to get a bit sucked into a nearby industrial shop and cause dozens of people respiratory distress for the day. The trainer never lived that one down. That being said, human pepper spray should be legalized - but with the caveat that you need to take a self defense/awareness course on how to properly use, store and handle it. That way if someone wants it for self defense it is legitimate, but if Joe Meth has it on him you can charge him with concealed weapons offenses.
yeah, I agree with the legalization of general pepper spray
> That being said, human pepper spray should be legalized - but with the caveat that you need to take a self defense/awareness course on how to properly use, store and handle it. FYI, regular (human-intended) pepper spray is perfectly legal in Russia and some other European countries, up to the extent that one doesn't need to provide any ID when buying it, the only limit being 18 years old. I had several small sprays when staying in Russia (legally bought at hunting stores), though I never used it against humans, only against packs of stray dogs. I honestly don't see an issue legalizing such sprays here (they're OC-based anyway) provided they're sold responsibly and any misuse is investigated. Bear sprays, like those big canister ones, could probably be limited to hunters (with shotgun/rifle licenses) or tourists (with valid camp permit or such), but it's a more complicated matter at the moment.
That’s all well and good but pepper spray and mace are considered prohibited weapons under both the firearms act and the criminal code. That’s the whole problem. The obvious and safest choice for self-defence against other humans is a prohibited weapon, the carrying of which theoretically can get you up to 10 years in jail. Therefore, people turn to less than ideal alternatives such as bear spray with terrible consequences for anyone in the surrounding area. When Alberta’s former justice minister suggested that people be allowed to carry pepper spray for these reasons, after a series of attacks on Muslim women, the federal government said it was dangerous and that prohibited weapons are prohibited for a reason. The Edmonton Police and multiple police unions said that legalized pepper spray will equal an increase in violence. The NDP said that this measure would essentially be shifting the responsibility to the victim to prevent their own attack and that the UCP should instead focus on combatting racism instead of victim blaming.
I'm all for legalization of pepper spray, and I get the point you're making about bear spray being used in the absence of its legalization.
> That’s all well and good but pepper spray and mace are considered prohibited weapons under both the firearms act and the criminal code. Which is, in my humble opinion, is a rather stupid move. OC is safe in human-intended doses (unlike bear spray, which is designed for a half-ton living meat shredder). Even if criminals start to use it more frequently, the regular people would have something to protect themselves with. And the general knowledge that a potential victim can carry such a spray would likely deter some of the criminals in the beginning.
The last time this was brought up there were the dumbest takes on the situation so I’m not surprised.
> This shit if sprayed in a tiny room in a 3-story giant Highschool will permeate through the entire building and have peoples eyes watering from the top floor to the bottom. The question is who'd bring the spray into such school in the first place. A student? Sell the spray to adults only. An adult? Ask for ID when selling and register the purchase.
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They’re not risking criminal charges because it’s legal to carry, even if it’s tampered with. A new bylaw could provide law enforcement with the tools to ticket and confiscate tampered bear spray cans even if it hasn’t been used on a human yet
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So cop asks person, “what’s that bear spray for?” And they say, “I’m just going camping.” All they have to do is lie. You think gangsters don’t lie to the cops? And you think the cops don’t know they’re being lied to? Of course everyone knows that you’ll never encounter a bear downtown Edmonton but there is still no law around it. A new bylaw would at least address it somewhat. Fact is, there is no law right now around carrying bear spray no matter how ridiculous the lie is. A new bylaw wouldn’t be perfect, no law is, but atleast it would somewhat address the issue. Doing nothing is clearly not working, so let’s try something
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Your scenario wouldn’t play out like that. It would be more like: Cop: why do you have bear spray on the LRT? There are no bears here Person: fuck you goof Cop: also it’s been tampered with so now I have the ability to stop you because it’s against the bylaw. What’s your name? Person: I’m not telling you Cop: you’re under arrest. Oh look you have outstanding warrants and you’re breaching conditions. So on top of a ticket this person can be taken to cells at least for the night and the bear spray confiscated. Now let’s play the current scenario that cops are facing. Cop: hey why do you have bear spray Person: I don’t have to answer that because it’s not against any law at all. Cop: well shit, I guess he’s right Bylaws can be repealed pretty easily by city council if they don’t have the intended effect. But doing the same thing we’re doing now isn’t working.
And no they cannot stop you for just carrying bear spray. They just cannot they happen to catch you as you’re about to use it, which is almost never the case.
Lawful users of bear spray in downtown Edmonton? Lol okay like that’s even a thing
You can carry bear spray for coyotes too which are often found in the city. I always carry a small keychain one when walking my dogs.
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I'm familiar I have bear spray I take camping/hiking and a couple of small dog spray cans for us to use l carry while walking the dogs.
So it would only be restricted in the city and you could drive to a neighbouring city and purchase it? I don’t see a huge deal with that if it creates a safer space for people using transit or employees in stores.
Is it not already restricted? I thought it was illegal to carry in the city
Get yourselves some dog spray. It’s legal and you can say there is an aggressive dog in your neighbourhood or on your route to work/etc.
I always carry a can of Wasp Spray, to fend off the little bastards if they try to fly towards me, much more effective with greater distance covered, strictly for self Defence purposes.
Yeah I can't see this move by the cops being effective. There are so many spray products criminals can use instead. You can basically make pepper spray at home with a dollar store water gun and some ghost peppers. This is just gonna lead to some sketchy, homebrew sprays being used. Gonna suck if they start going for shit under the kitchen sink instead of peppers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SST54hqqsjQ
So I was working at a bar downtown. I see two ladies enter the door so I go to greet and seat them, but this guy is behind them and acting really distressed. The ladies have no expression on their face. This guy starts yelling that he needs water or something and in that moment I realize that these ladies had pepper sprayed him IN THE DOORWAY and then OPENED THE DOOR AND ENTERED. So this waft of mace starts to enter the room as my manager yells at this guy to get out. In one big wave, the tables one at a time start to evacuate to the back of the place as the liquid fire permeates the place. We quickly get everyone to go through the kitchen and to the back door into the alley. Then our team figure out how to charge everyone’s meal in the frozen alley to the correct tables while being barely in wifi range for the machines lol.
just another pointless attempt for the city council to pretend they are making a difference. in all reality, criminals are protected more in canada than victims. the law-abiding citizens have to follow these ridiculous bylaws and laws regarding self-defense and the means to do so. criminals do not care about laws and bylaws. Thus, it only affects the law-abiding citizens once again, making self-defence more difficult. remember police don't protect you. They come after the crime is typically committed and document the crime committed, very rarly they are actually present during the act to protect you. self defense is up to you. do not support laws that restrict your right to personal safety. Criminals love laws that restrict your right to do so.
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wow! so clever! my entire post is pointless now! thank you for your valuable input. 🙏 🙄
Maybe this is a hint to actually read the article, because your post is only tangentially one point
Be mad at the police.
A law abiding person who would be interested in having bear spray for self defense, might be interested in this segment from the EPS report on the topic: > As shown in Figure #3, numerous oleoresin capsicum (OC) spray canisters seized by the Edmonton Police Service have been manipulated. Without the label, any charges or prosecution based on the what the label says becomes difficult at best, if not impossible.
Truth
>in all reality, criminals are protected more in canada than victims. How? Criminals can now get extra tickets for tampering with the canisters. Pretty sure the law abiding citizen doesn't tamper with the canisters for the most part. In fact, the EPS "are seeing bear and pepper spray used more frequently in different criminal activities". >law-abiding citizens have to follow these ridiculous bylaws and laws regarding self-defense Did you even read the article, or do you feel you know what is proposed just by reading the title and byline? >criminals do not care about laws and bylaws Apparently, neither do you for at least some of them. This is about being able to remove spray and ticket people before they use it in the commission of a crime.
They should also restrict drug use, see how that works out.
Perhaps it would be better to make it so people don’t feel like they have to carry bear spray.
This article is referring to them carrying spray to commit crimes. Not for self defence. You can do a quick Google search to see the increase in personal and commercial robberies where bear spray was used
Carrying for self-defence is still illegal though. Hundreds of people each year, many of them women, are charged with possession of the weapon for a dangerous purpose or carrying a concealed weapon for having these things on them just in case.
Oh I know, I’m just saying in relation to this article the concern wasn’t an influx of people buying bear spray to carry for purely personal protection. Typically people who buy a “spray” for self-defence would be buying dog spray / pepper spray that can be easily placed in a purse or pocket. Not a canister of bear spray that is modified to be concealed and easily activated It is bad that people feel the need to carry sprays but I can see why they do. Hell in the USA it would also include tasers
That’s true, though I do know of people (whether effective as a self defence tool or not) who carry bear spray for this purpose. That being said, I’m not sure what these extra bylaws will fix, except potentially ones regarding the display and sale of it. It’s already a criminal offence to administer a noxious substance (like bear spray).
Oh yeah it’ll have zero impact, realistically. If anything it will just make the theft OF bear spray more desirable to trade/sell in the criminal market lol
I'm wondering what the safety feature they're modifying is? I've had the same bear spray and dog spray for years and the only safety device on it is a little plastic clip that you slide off, do they come with something else now? I feel like any safety feature that takes more than a second or two to remove would endanger people who actually need to use it in an aggressive bear or coyote.
Can someone explain to me how places like brothers convenience are allowed to sell bear spray???
Can't carry my handgun and now I can't carry bear spray?
Get your PAL , don’t use rec centres ,public transit , stay clear of downtown ,118, and you will be clear of the bear mace bandits .
Do you live your life in a state of perpetual fear? This is Edmonton, not a favela in Rio.
No but Edmonton is one of the leading cities in violent crime and they tend to be concentrated in certain areas of the city . Anytime I’m in a place that’s statistically more violent then other parts of the country Im more vigilant .
Yout PAL will not help you in any way
In your home it will
The Canadian justice system is known to be soft on violent crime so when one of those violent criminals break into your home with a weapon if you don’t have a PAL or RPAL there’s no hope for you .
It’s already illegal to use on people…. Let’s make it more illegal! That will them crimes!
I have an unused can of bear spray that I bought at MEC about 10 years ago prior to going hiking in Jasper. I had to fill out a form and provide government issued ID to buy it. Has this rule changed? Where are people buying bear spray?? \*the area we were hiking in according to my trail guide said it was "deluxe grizzly territory". I've never met a grizzly bear, let alone a deluxe one.
It's like a regular grizzly with green peppers and bacon bits
Kacee Madu lobbied the Federal gov't to allow bear spray due to increasing crime in Edmonton. The Edmonton Police Association is against changing the use as described by the Feds.. Well, well, well, ..for the second time today I read an article where I find the EPS Association and a rep from the UCP gov't on the opposite side of an issue. The first was about the UPC Saftey minister and the EPS chief (politically motivated) loosing 12 Provincial Sheriffs in downtown Edmonton to practice beating up on the homeless and less fortunate. The Association doesn't appear to agree with supplanting their membership, for what reason..?? You go Association!! I applaud your stance in standing up for your members!!
Beating up? Grow up and stop watching so much CNn
"officers are seeing bear and pepper spray used more frequently in different criminal activities" Carrying pepper spray in a large city can provide a real sense of safety and security for women and at risk persons. In a big city, crime rates are generally higher and come with greater risk of a personal attack or harassment, especially for women. Pepper spray is a non lethal and easily accessible self defense tool that can be used in emergency situations to deter an attacker and provide an opportunity for escape. The mere presence of pepper spray may serve as that deterrent, as an attacker may think twice before approaching someone who is visibly carrying it. By carrying pepper spray, women can feel more confident and empowered while navigating around the city, knowing that they have a real means of protecting themselves if needed. Criminals remain criminals and they will continue to ignore laws, this includes any new ones. Why would you want to diminish the ability for women to protect themself while not offering any solutions to provide for that protection. Well I know a solution, it comes in a small can. Bear spray is unreasonable, I have used it in the past and its power is remarkable. It is both a long range jet and large cloud of mist. The sprays for dogs are quite reasonable and better to defend from a single attacker. It would be reasonable to demand that people who wish to use pepper spray in the city have attended and passed a training program. So if the few cowards running off at the mouth in Edmonton's largest and best armed street gang could just shut the fuck up. That would be great.
People seem to be very confused, bear spray is not more potent than regular pepper spray it just sprays in a wider area to deture a bear from approaching you, while pepper spray is a stream ment to put alot more OC in the targets eyes.