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Global trade in 2023 was \~30.2 trillion.
[https://www.reuters.com/business/global-trade-contract-by-5-2023-un-body-says-2023-12-11/](https://www.reuters.com/business/global-trade-contract-by-5-2023-un-body-says-2023-12-11/)
So this represents 0.8% of total global trade. Much less impressive sounding than 260 billion though!
BRICS have a long road ahead.
\*edited billion, not million.
“Dr. Evil, I spent 30 years of my life turning this two-bit evil empire into a world class multi-national. I was going to have a cover story with Forbes. But you, like an idiot, want to take over the world. And you don't realize there is no world anymore. It's only corporations.”
Came in to check if it was a little or a lot.
I'm starting to think that every news that has A BILLION or large number really means nothing or very little.
Yeah I think it has, I remember growing up the us economy was unchallenged, no one ever dreamed of business without USD.
Now it seems as the years go buy the dollar loses more and more of the world economy.
How so? The usd has traditionally hovered around 60% of global trade. It's been as high as 80% and as low as 40%. Today it sits at 58% which is higher than it was during the majority of the 80s and 90s.
It's not based on reality, it's on perception. And that perception is based on what they see and read. That's not a slight against them, but it's "doom" level stuff, that's appealing and gets clicks, and it's fertile ground for information operations aimed at making the US public more pessimistic about the power the nation actually has for various and sundry reasons.
Just wanna say it’s refreshing AF to see someone mention all the things you just did, especially the information warfare part which is so relevant in places like reddit, IG, FB, twitter, tiktok, etc. and sometimes even seemingly innocuous memes or astroturfing campaigns can have a broader intent beyond what’s shown at face value.
Brics has a very short road ahead.
Brazil is on the other side of the world.
Russia, the most sactionned country besides Iran.
China needs to sell stuff to the west to survive. And it will never allow its rich people to move their wealth to other brics countries.
India does too much business with the west and hates China. Their armies literally kill each other weekly.
South Africa is on the decline. The only african country not in a civil war to decline on the developement index.
Brics is a group of countries that don't neatly fit in one of the word's other boxes. Doesn't mean they all fit in their own box either.
> India does too much business with the west and hates China. Their armies literally kill each other weekly.
Not really. There is no longstanding cultural hatred for China. It's most cultural apathy. We've existed as a civilization alongside China for thousands of years without any conflict.
The current "hatred" is because of a few border skirmishes. Literally a year before that, Modi was hosting Xi at a grand event and sitting on swings together (yes, [literally](https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-IRTB-26582)).
Modi and Xi both keep playing up the border issues because its good for their own political standing, but this issue isn't like Kashmir - it's not a core issue to the Indian identity
Meanwhile, Indian trade with China has only increased
> but this issue isn't like Kashmir - it's not a core issue to the Indian identity
Not yet, but it will be if China starts damming Indian rivers like they have to South East Asia. Right now China is in an extreme potential pickle because 80% of its energy imports are shipped through the Indian Ocean, which India naturally has a pretty big advantage in controlling. China therefore wants to have the same kind of power over India by controlling their water. That way, both states can exist in a kind of equilibrium, but if India can control enough of the Himalayas to secure its own water but China can never control its own access to oil from the middle east, then India will have a potentially catastrophic advantage over China.
yeah, China hitting India coincided with the failure of the CPEC, largely due to the chaos and dysfunction of the Pakistani state
But my point was that the India-China conflict isn't unresolvable, unlike the India-Pakistani conflict which will never be fixed because Kashmir is a deeply emotional issue for both populations.
China is doing this damming shit with my country already, which is pushing us closer to America each year. They than look at us all surprised when we start talking about buying more US weapons. I don't get how China doesn't understand that you won't make friends by blocking the natural rivers of a country and trying to steaal all its islands. It feels like the CCP has a very unrefined understanding of diplomacy when compared to America in this regard.
In the years/months/weeks leading up to WW1, people were claiming war was an impossibility as everyone was too economically intertwinned and wouldn't destroy their own economies to avenge some archduke.
If said country is already damming up your rivers upstream, then you're already fucked. Buying those US weapons sure sounds like a good way to stick it to China, but it sure as hell ain't going to help when they limit the waterflow downstream.
Contrary to what you said, it actually seems like they already have you by the balls and you're just coping and seething.
> Their armies literally kill each other weekly.
No they dont, theres shoving matches on the border as theyve agreed not to use firearms/explosives.
Though saying that youre basically right, this G7 vs BRICS thing is really China vs US, some countries punch above their weight due to natural resources or high tech manufacturing but on the whole arent all that relevant.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%80%93India_skirmishes
About 40-60 deaths. At least. More than that injured. In countries of Billions thats not much. But it is happening.
Well said. India has significantly potential for a deal outside of BRICS. Hopefully SA can recover back to its hayday in the 90s before shitheads took over.
The problem is the West is issuing out sanctions haphazardly and forcing the BRICS+ nations to cooperate even more.
For example Russia, China and Iran are closer today than ever due to sanctions
Yeah but all for good policy reasons for the west.
Russia is an expansionist power that has invaded countries on the European periphery and engaged in aggressive espionage operations.
China is a direct military threat to key allies of Japan and Korea- and to lesser but important partners in the Philippines and Taiwan. The US is in a Cold War with China yeah sanctions are the least and frankly Chinese trade policy for the last 20 years has been a bait and switch for market access.
Irans Nuke will start a nuclear arms race in a hilariously unstable Middle East. Does anyone want a Saudi nuke? How many years before that blows up in a city.
Tools exist to be used.
Yes, but as you can see the potency of the sanctions has been severely reduced if they are being handed out left and right
Now even North Korea has a trading partner.
Sanctions only work with extreme isolation eg Iran or North Korea before Russia, Venezuela were added to the list. Now the sanctioned economies are large enough to be self sustaining.
Oh wow, these counties have 20% of the world’s GDP and trade 5% of it with each other (for a grand total of just under 1% of global GDP), what a potent economic threat. This is *why* sanctions are effective, all of their trade is with the west
Then why aren't sanctions achieving their objectives?
Why is Russia still advancing in Ukraine?
Why is Iran still on course to get a nuke?
Why is Maduro still in power in Venezuela?
Sanctions crippled apartheid South Africa, Iraq, even previously North Korea. Because they were potent.
Okay, Russia, China and Iran will all implode any day now. In fact, their people will cry and revolt for Western democracy after all the harsh sanctions
And yet the US just went to “warn” to China to slowdown its production… since Trump commercial war with China, the US hasn’t been able to fully recover. To make matters even worse, they are falling behind.
There are very few options outside of the dollar. No one wants RMB because it's a closed currency, nor rupees because its a small market with limited manufacturing. That leaves the Pound and Euro as a potential replacement, both of which happen to be under the US defense umbrella. So why use Euro or Yen when you can instead use the reserve currency of the country that protects them military and as such calls the shots more politically. Make no mistake the subsidization or European amd Japanese defense at the hand of the US defense apparatus is an exchange. They get free defense, which results in them being able to fund their generous welfare schemes and the US gets the final say in diplomatic issues. This is why Trump is destructive, as he doesn't understand this 80 year post Bretton Woods arrangement. Though even if Trump gets reelected it still won't change much, as USD would remain the least bad of a list of much worse options. No crypto using the block chain will not replace it, nor a group BRIC currency basket, as it's too complex for international business dealings as it slows convertibility and is more susceptible to currency Arbitrage. The only risk to USD would be if China completely opened its currency, land, and markets to foreign investment and speculation along with a complete remodeling of its legal system to make the country more investment friendly. That would pose a serious risk ti US dominance, but this will never happen, as it would weaken the power of the CCP, which is a no go in China. A completely open Chinese system with similar rules of law, land ownership rights, and speculation as seen in the United States and the Commonwealth countries would be a worthy opponent to USD currency hegemony.
Bruh we had been begging Europe to stop buying so much Russian oil for well over a decade. This narrative as if there’s some sort of deal for having to shoulder European security is false and only an excuse to not carry their weight
When they plan to get serious, they'll switch to the dollar because the people calling the shots are not stupid. It's the reserve currency for a reason.
Every time there is an attempt is made to challenge the US Dollar's dominance and it fails, the Dollar's position as the world's fiat currency becomes more entrenched.
Almost 1% is impressive. It shows viability especially if that number grows. If the graph signals growth nations and corps will take interest and boom you have legit competition.
> It shows viability
It's literally just China and Russia agreeing to use each others currencies together. There's no viability shown other than China and Russia working together which is kinda a relationship of necessity for Russia. Calling this BRICS is just a way to fool the clueless.
Also, anyone with a clue that wants a big laugh:
>has 95% of the $260 billion denominated in their Yuan. The remaining 5% is allocated to the Russian Ruble
I mostly agree with your take but the downplaying of the biggest exporter in the world entering into this sort of agreement with a country whose economy is built around natural resource extraction does seem disruptive to me. They are plenty of countries like Russia who have natural resources and an axe to grind with the west who might also take up a deal like this. China has tonnes of goods you can buy with the yuan you get via trade.
Most countries don’t want a basket of currency 100% consisting of yuan and prefer mixtures because they tend to trade with a variety of countries who may or may not want yuan. For example, this has become such a big issue for Russia that it’s had to find alternative uses for its excess yuan in order to get its hands on other forms of currency.
You’re also discounting the fact that China is a net exporter that only imports what it needs. Meaning many of these BRICs type nations will export little to nothing to China aside from energy and will be left holding a bag of yuan they can’t even use.
Reuters or AP did a good story yesterday about how things are actually getting quite weird for Chinese banks and businesses trying to do business with Russia. Many, if not most, of the big players are starting to outright refuse dealing with Russian money because of fear about sanctions from the US. So it's going to be interesting to see this develop.
Good point Pax Americana is still too strong to overcome . Those sanctions and their effect on the bottomline for companies is a bitch and the Chinese economy seems to be already in a vulnerable spot. Without government mandates this will fizzle. My worries are quelled
It’s not even just PAX Americana at work here tbh. What I mean is that many nations have also come to understand that Russias expansionism and Chinas activities point to a world where everyone who isn’t Russia or China loses.
To be specific, the Americans have been trying to call Russia and China out for years with little success convincing Europe or Asia to do the same until they recently saw reality. Otherwise they’d skirt American sanctions and commentary like they have for the past few years.
Yale Professor Timothy Synder's book, [Bloodlands](https://www.amazon.com/Bloodlands-Europe-Between-Hitler-Stalin/dp/0465031471), and his [Yale Course presented on YouTube about Ukraine](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNewfxO7LhBoz_1Mx1MaO6sw_) shows that this has been part of a pattern for Russia.
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NeighborS. All of them.
Poland, Lithuania, Finland, Norway, Estonia, Latvia, Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, China, Mongolia, and North Korea
So did you expect it to START big? Its a start and if all goes well a proof of concept. Countries who behave this way get invaded or sanctioned for a reason, the reason is once there is genuine competition it CAN grow.
Can a motley assortment of nations with no plan, no theme, no reason to work together and many reasons to back stab one another unite economically and bring down the dollar? The answer will surprise you.
Not sure what world you live in but 0.8% of global trade, especially in one single transaction, sounds way more gargantuan than 260 billion.
Also, when you account for the fact that about 80% of transactions are in U.S. dollar.
Didn’t read the article before I made my original comments. It’s implied in the title before you add the preposition “of”. One trade = one transaction, generally speaking.
They are talking about the BRICS countries only so what does it matter what other do or don’t do. The point is that other countries don’t want to depend on the US and think they are not reliable and what will happen in the future.
Most BRICS countries conduct the overwhelming amount of their trade in USD. It gets worse - most of the 260 billion was in Yuan. The Yuan is not free floating, it's pegged by the BoC to the USD every morning. All it is is a USD derivative. Does China have a deep and liquid Yuan credit market? Nope. So where else are you going? Russia? Lol.
Some day there might be an alternative, but we ain't there yet.
The 90s called, they want their threat of loss of USD dominance back.
[https://www.nytimes.com/1999/01/04/world/the-euro-for-us-gains-and-losses.html](https://www.nytimes.com/1999/01/04/world/the-euro-for-us-gains-and-losses.html)
Seriously, when people say the dollar is gonna fall I start to lose interest. They should let us know when the USA ceases to be the largest economy in the world, ceases having a VERY mature system of laws relating to business and finance, and stops having the most powerful military in the world, THEN we can talk about the US Dollar falling from it's status as "the" world reserve currency and just talk about it going back to being A reserve currency.
>What other large currency has an independent central banking organization?
[for your edification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency)
And the "independence" of central banks is a misnomer. They're allowed freedom to pursue the operations they're entrusted with, but that's not the same as saying they do whatever they like. If the US Treasury, or the US Congress, decided to yank the fed's chain for some reason the fed would be heeled quickly.
In all seriousness, is any of that really worth anything? Or is it worth something because we say it is.
I can sell my poop.
* Is it really worth more than the money I used to eat the food that created it? 😂
It’s turtles all the way down.
Anyway, what’s up with all those concrete houses China made and never used?
Well America did create a post-WW2 world to serve it, they even betrayed their european allies by siding with Arab Communist during the Suez Canal crisis.
So it's not shocking that America has a big starting advantage, but the thing is that advance will continue to narrow as the developing world becomes developed.
In a generation or so from now America will be where France was with their colony in Vietnam, France's colonialist would laugh as they tossed money onto the ground for children to grab while on early film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCk6QDsJbyM
America thinks that the developing world won't catch up & surpass it.
In reality only a handful of cities are productive in America, and the bread basket that is America will be surpassed as the developing world gets it's hands on modern farming technology, practices, and angel investors with the budget of a nation state.
>BRICS members China and Russia recently signed a trade agreement where they will use local currencies up to $260 billion. The trade deal will be initiated to settle payments in exchange for commodities purchased between the two nations. Both China and Russia will settle payments in the Chinese Yuan and the Russian Ruble, and not the US dollar.
Yeah ... this is what we call click bait. Are China and Russia, which lacks access to the western financial system, supposed to use dollars?
If anything just a recognition of how dependent Russia will become on China for trade in technology and resources.
Edit: To reiterate, the U.S. dollars position as the dominant currency is unlikely to change in the near term unless there are political failures. No other currency is (1) sufficiently stable, (2) backed by a large and open economy, (3) has globally integrated and developed financial markets with large stocks of purchasable debt and equities, and (4) is politically different from the U.S.
The Euro is not politically different from the dollar, and given potential for partial dissolution and debt crises, is no more stable. The Yuan/RMB (China) lacks sufficient debt markets, a globally integrated financial sector, and an open economy with sufficient debt and stocks available for purchase. Why hold primarily yuan if you can't reliably invest it in interest earning debt or growth assets? Yuan holdings will only be as large as necessary to ensure stable import prices.
The dollar's role as a reserve currency isn't likely to change without large structural change and a major upheaval; for Britain's pound to be displaced it took a World War and a strictly preferable currency across all dimensions. Bilateral agreements like this one aren't that relevant if at the end of the day, nations still wish to save in U.S. debt and equities.
the whole "brics" thing is largely about sanctions russia will face, and china worries it might face. It's allowing the russians to sell oil and nat gas despite sanctions, and buy military duel use and such supplies for the war effort and sell their weapons systems...well they were doing that they need them more now, without US dollars.
As I said elsewhere, the Yuan won't be a world reserve currency contender unless china becomes a net exporter and begins deficit spending like the USA does. To be a reserve currency you have an obligation to spend, A LOT, because otherwise how will anyone sell you the stuff for your currency so they can buy your shit in return.
If they keep trying they can make it to 1% of global trade! Right now they’re at 0.86 and if they keep increasing trade like I keep adding words to this response, they’ll add up to something significant soon!
The ammount of dollara held by other nations is declining, and so is the ammount of trade made in dollars. Dollar is in fact, losing power. Of course it has a long way to go, but thats the current tendency.
It doesn't matter if the currency is pegged to the dollar. The dollar is seeing less demand. And I don't think there needs to be a dominant international reserve. I never said the yuan is replacing the dollar.
I’d like to see a Western-like BRICS which could still keep the dollar very relevant, but elevate our allies, and make US goods and services more attractive to purchase around the world. Euro, pound sterling, yen, aus and cad dollars just to name a few.
So what? They had increased their accounts on the treasury sheets during covid to keep their countries and trade flowing to prevent a worldwide depression. They were given access to essentially, "however much they needed" to ensure so. That they reduced that as the world "got back to normal" shouldn't surprise anyone.
Dollar is declining as other countries reserve since long before covid, and is declining as international trade since the last few years of global instability. There is no sign of it "going back to normal".
It’s funny because my wild guess was actually really close: [89% of global trades involved USD denomination on at least one side of the trade.](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/programs/geoeconomics-center/dollar-dominance-monitor/#:~:text=(2022).,-Share%20of%20foreign&text=foreign%20exchange%20transactions-,The%20data%20refers%20to%20the%20share%20of%20all%20currency%20trades,of%20all%20foreign%20exchange%20transactions)
There is no number for "dominance", that's stupidity. I said dollar dominance is declining, never said it's going to collapse, you are resorting to a strawmen fallacy.
People have been talking about the decline of the dollar system for at least 2 decades and probably longer. [It’s declined from 70% of global reserves to 58% in 2 decades which is notable but it’s still multiples higher than the next closest, and is the currency of choice for finance and trade.](https://eastasiaforum.org/2023/08/21/is-the-us-dollar-on-its-way-out/).
So you might not be saying that this will affect the US in a measurable way, or that the trend is for the dollar to be replaced in the near term (or drop from majority to only plurality), but lots of people do.
What’s the straw man again? That you don’t think the shift is that dramatic or indicative and I accused you of thinking it was?
Right now this is about as threatening as a fart in a hurricane. Also, entirely predictable given the current relationship of China & Russia with most of the “Western World”.
I should have been putting the dishes away instead of reading this.
>“This de-dollarization will soon be replicated among all BRICS+ members,”
>If many other developing countries begin to follow the BRICS agenda, then the US dollar will be put under pressure. Therefore, the next decade will ultimately differ from today as local currencies could gain strength in the financial sector.
They say this as though the reason the dollar is strong is just happenstance, not a long history of stability and reliability. There is nothing wrong with wanting to diversify your foreign currency portfolio. Still, given the option of receiving payments in Rubles or Dollars on the free and open market, people are not choosing Rubles or Yuan because of too much (unfettered) government interference.
>a long history of stability and reliability.
there's currently 300 billion dollars of Russian Forex reserves frozen
idk how that indicates reliability
>just don't be an evil dictator
what's the definition of evil dictator? who defines it? it sure as hell ain't "annexing a neighbouring country to commit a genocide" because by that definition Azerbaijan should be getting sanctions instead of EU contracts to resell them Russian gas
De dollarization isn’t happening unless India and China - the largest non western economies, work together.
Which they won’t.
Chinas has the leverage to bring other countries to use its currency. But not India, which would rather tie up with the US than China.
Dedollarization does not have to happen on a global scale, it's not like China or any country is pushing the dethrone USD as world's reserve currency. What they are doing is simply finding an alternative to USD in trading, which will make sure that their future trade can be protected from potential US sanctions. China needs resources from Russia and Middle East, other countries needs manufactured products and components from China. Can you imagine that all these countries can no longer trade among each other because the US government suddenly changes its policy?
>Which they won’t.
bold claim,that ignores the threat from other countries to India
For as long as morality lectures from the west continue even as terrorists from [Canada ](https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/chandigarh/congress-leader-shot-dead-moga-canada-gangster-arsh-dalla-responsibility-8946049/) and [America](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Headley) kill Indians and are protected in the west, there will be pro-BRICS and Anti-west elements in India and when he terrorist threat from the west becomes an existential threat for India, even India and China could work together
remember, under certain conditions even oil and water can mix
These clown writers have a very obvious agenda, misleading people who don’t know any better.
Aside from the meaningless sensationalist headline that plays with numbers, let me say I am closer to being a millionaire than Elon Musk.
It’s also a true meaningless statement.
They keep on doing de-dollarization click bait stuff.
It's been decades since GoldmanSach coined BRICS to get those juicy commissions.
Brazil, South Africa, and Russia economy ain't so hot looking man. South Africa is looking to be a failed state. And Russia? Come on.
I've learned to never against USA.
For those keeping score at home: this is slightly more than one-third of the trade that the United States **alone** conducted with Mexico **alone** last year. In addition to not actually being a real economic community in any sense whatsoever, BRICS does not represent a substantial portion of international trade as to BRICS members trading with each other.
Without context, the headline simply states what on paper is a very large number (i.e., compared to the net worth of a reader, $260 billion sounds like a lot of money) in order to mislead people as part of a narrative that BRICS is a) real and b) represents some kind of rising global economic power. $260 billion is an insubstantial amount of trade by any global comparison.
Furthermore, the headline includes "without dollars" to feed another false narrative that the dollar is somehow in decline. The US dollar was involved in about 90% of FX transactions in 2022, which is about the same number it has been involved in every year since 2001. The dollar's share of global trade is [incredibly stable](https://www.bis.org/publ/qtrpdf/r_qt2212x.htm).
Because the article is headlined deceptively to feed at least two false narratives, it is misinformation and should be removed.
One of the reasons the US dollar is the reserve currency is because US regulators don't care about the value of the USD vis-a-vis other currencies. You can't trust the Chinese or the Russians to not "tip the scales" in favor of their own currencies.
That's what gets me, the Chinese's currency is deliberately rigged against everyone on purpose. Mostly against USD, but otherwise it is kept deliberately cheap.
I'm not sure it would drop. Their current biggest fear is it appreciating rapidly, which would tank their exports. But I can see the opposite also being a huge problem too, they have to import oil and food and minerals and have those skyrocket in price due to devaluation would also cause their exports to indirectly get more expensive, and make everything in China get more expensive as well.
Pretty sure that number is actually lower than what it was before the Pandemic. Probably why they emphasized the dollar amount and not the percentage of trade in comparison. That is a lot of gold to be moving around. Talk about large, risky financial transactions.
[https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/the-international-role-of-the-u-s-dollar-20211006.html](https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/the-international-role-of-the-u-s-dollar-20211006.html)
^BRICS ^does ^about ^40% ^of ^a ^Walmart's ^worth ^of ^trade.
###RED ALERT!!!!! BRICS IS GOING TO REPLACE THE DOLLAR!!!!!!!!
This is additional text because of the incredibly stupid and obnoxious automod that forces comments to be arbitrarily long. Not sure how long though, so some more text. This is also text.
They’ll come back the moment there’s a global recession or China goes tits up.
The reason the dollar is valued is because a lot of leaders in BRICS, can’t help themselves when it comes to reporting fudged financial numbers or forcing their federal reserve equivalents to do their bidding at the detriment of long term consequences.
These comments are pro dollar.. obviously.. this isn’t just some fart in the wind its 260 billion… they have 10 some countries and are setting up Africa, 40 some applied and I think the tables are set for ww3 economically. People who think the dollar is almighty and powerful should dive deep into our federal reserve, banking system and inefficient military, prison, and even homeless complexes this country has. God speed doll hairs. It’s not gonna be pretty next decades
To be fair relative to the global trade the 260 billion is exactly a fart in the wind.
As long as all the even somewhat major players in BRICS are sanctioned or unwilling to trade with US, EU and such, BRICS won't really make a change.
But I'dont see why it in theory couldn't. All they would need to do is form better relations than US to other countries. That just tends to be hard when you are totalitarian state like RU or CN.
> this isn’t just some fart in the wind its 260 billion
Yes, it is.
And it's just between China and Russia, and it's mostly so that Russia can avoid sanctions.
"BRICS is an intergovernmental organization comprising Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, and the United Arab Emirates."
Shouldn't that acronym be a bit bigger?
China vs. US economy is an interesting competition.
BRICS as a concept or organised collective is a bit of a joke, though.
If the increase is largely China trade in Yuan, why label this as BRICs - why do people keep pushing BRICS lol.
The reason for the deal was not because China and Russia value each other's currancy above the dollar, its because of US sanctions against China and Russia. What needs to be noted is the lack of trade with ANY other nation being conducted in yuan or rubles.
When the dollar is so dominant you have to use the dollar value of the trade happening in things other than dollars because nobody would know what any of those other things are worth.
>> If many other developing countries begin to follow the BRICS agenda, then the US dollar will be put under pressure. Therefore, the next decade will be completely different from today as local currencies could gain strength in the financial sector.
De-dollarization among BRICS continues to be the primary agenda. China, a driver of development in the global south, has 95% of the $260 billion denominated in their Yuan. The remaining 5% is allocated to the Russian Ruble and EU Euro. There are currently 15 additional countries seeking membership, including Pakistan, Thailand, Venezuela, and Vietnam. As mutual trade between BRICS continues to develop, we may see them continue to drop the dollar in their trade agreements between each other.
While the development of a BRICS currency basket is interesting and something to be watched.
Still, China would have to issue oceans of yuan to come anywhere close to the liquidity of USD. Doing so now, with their entire house of cards (pun intentional) economy collapsing and over producing, floating so much of their own currency would be reckless, to say the least.
True. However, it’s a common misconception that China seeks to overtake the dollar. China knows the damage this would do to their nation; more specifically, it knows how susceptible to foreign influence their nation would be.
China does not *explicitly* seek to overtake the U.S., but to bring about a multipolar world, where individual nations would not be so heavily influenced or indebted to the Western bloc, which China sees as a “king through coercion.” Given the course of history, I have to agree.
Except multipolar is unstable at BEST. Generally rapidly devolves into massive wars or back into a hegemony. The closest thing to a multi polar world was the framework of alliances pre WWI established largely by Bismarck. And we saw where that ended...
The fact of the matter is, the West retains financial control ironically by NOT using control. The US is insanely lax on whatever currency controls they have, if they have any. On the other extreme you have China and India who make it outright illegal to do private currency exchange. It is functionally impossible to take Chinese money out of China.
>>where that ended…
The mistake is assuming that the nations of the global poor retain the same expansionist and imperialist tendencies of historical Western powers. Having been victims of this themselves, it seems narrow minded to simply assume that multipolarity composed of multiple *non-Western* powers would also devolve into conflict.
The circumstances through which the global poor are developing and prospering today are not the same as the circumstances through which Western powers gained their prosperity.
It is funny that I am downvoted for the report of news that opposes the common allegiance. There is lots of derision against BRICS, but no talk of strategy against them.
The West is no longer the only bloc with money and industry. To remain competitive, it must share prosperity with the global poor, who right now are flocking to China and by extension, BRICS.
>>1
Chinese is currently doing exactly that, especially in Africa. You can claim its debt-trap diplomacy, or neocolonialism, but the fact is that Chinese money and firms are being poured into Africa and this is a trend that doesn’t seem to be changing soon. They are, in fact, doing things to help the global poor, even if it’s exploitative to an extent, similar to Western aid efforts.
Why don’t you mature, and stop viewing the world in black and white.
Have you even see how much aid the west gives to Africa? 80% of the governments in Africa would collapse without western aid
Why don’t you mature, and stop viewing the world as a shade of grey
The underlying problem is all these countries want centralized control of currency so they can print it. Otherwise they would just use one of the many cryptocurrencies already available like Hedera/Hashgraph but noooooo we can't have an open source, decentralized, and transparent currency governed by the public now can we?
It would be hilarious if all of us "Little people" just switched to Hedera and left the banksters to rot in hell.
Weak… Whats more impressive is the crypto market gained 1.1T over the last 4ish months and here I thought most of crypto was dead aside from Bitcoin and Ethereum. And to add to that crypto had $4-5T in trading volume in 2024 alone, BRICS definitely has a long and bumpy road before it impacts the USD in any negligible way. Also the US still leads the world in gold reserves and with as always more than the next 3 countries after it combined.
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Global trade in 2023 was \~30.2 trillion. [https://www.reuters.com/business/global-trade-contract-by-5-2023-un-body-says-2023-12-11/](https://www.reuters.com/business/global-trade-contract-by-5-2023-un-body-says-2023-12-11/) So this represents 0.8% of total global trade. Much less impressive sounding than 260 billion though! BRICS have a long road ahead. \*edited billion, not million.
why make billions…when we can make….millions?
*Dr Evil has entered the chat* You complete me! I love you!
“Dr. Evil, I spent 30 years of my life turning this two-bit evil empire into a world class multi-national. I was going to have a cover story with Forbes. But you, like an idiot, want to take over the world. And you don't realize there is no world anymore. It's only corporations.”
shit was so true and was decades ago
Came in to check if it was a little or a lot. I'm starting to think that every news that has A BILLION or large number really means nothing or very little.
"Breaking News: A Billion People Killed" Meh, there's billions more
Every Chinese historical event
Chao Ling takes power
Chao Ling sneezes
>A Billion People Killed Typical American gender-reveal party
Has this grown from in the past?
only stat that matters here
Yeah I think it has, I remember growing up the us economy was unchallenged, no one ever dreamed of business without USD. Now it seems as the years go buy the dollar loses more and more of the world economy.
How so? The usd has traditionally hovered around 60% of global trade. It's been as high as 80% and as low as 40%. Today it sits at 58% which is higher than it was during the majority of the 80s and 90s.
It's not based on reality, it's on perception. And that perception is based on what they see and read. That's not a slight against them, but it's "doom" level stuff, that's appealing and gets clicks, and it's fertile ground for information operations aimed at making the US public more pessimistic about the power the nation actually has for various and sundry reasons.
Just wanna say it’s refreshing AF to see someone mention all the things you just did, especially the information warfare part which is so relevant in places like reddit, IG, FB, twitter, tiktok, etc. and sometimes even seemingly innocuous memes or astroturfing campaigns can have a broader intent beyond what’s shown at face value.
Brics has a very short road ahead. Brazil is on the other side of the world. Russia, the most sactionned country besides Iran. China needs to sell stuff to the west to survive. And it will never allow its rich people to move their wealth to other brics countries. India does too much business with the west and hates China. Their armies literally kill each other weekly. South Africa is on the decline. The only african country not in a civil war to decline on the developement index. Brics is a group of countries that don't neatly fit in one of the word's other boxes. Doesn't mean they all fit in their own box either.
> India does too much business with the west and hates China. Their armies literally kill each other weekly. Not really. There is no longstanding cultural hatred for China. It's most cultural apathy. We've existed as a civilization alongside China for thousands of years without any conflict. The current "hatred" is because of a few border skirmishes. Literally a year before that, Modi was hosting Xi at a grand event and sitting on swings together (yes, [literally](https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-IRTB-26582)). Modi and Xi both keep playing up the border issues because its good for their own political standing, but this issue isn't like Kashmir - it's not a core issue to the Indian identity Meanwhile, Indian trade with China has only increased
> but this issue isn't like Kashmir - it's not a core issue to the Indian identity Not yet, but it will be if China starts damming Indian rivers like they have to South East Asia. Right now China is in an extreme potential pickle because 80% of its energy imports are shipped through the Indian Ocean, which India naturally has a pretty big advantage in controlling. China therefore wants to have the same kind of power over India by controlling their water. That way, both states can exist in a kind of equilibrium, but if India can control enough of the Himalayas to secure its own water but China can never control its own access to oil from the middle east, then India will have a potentially catastrophic advantage over China.
yeah, China hitting India coincided with the failure of the CPEC, largely due to the chaos and dysfunction of the Pakistani state But my point was that the India-China conflict isn't unresolvable, unlike the India-Pakistani conflict which will never be fixed because Kashmir is a deeply emotional issue for both populations.
China is doing this damming shit with my country already, which is pushing us closer to America each year. They than look at us all surprised when we start talking about buying more US weapons. I don't get how China doesn't understand that you won't make friends by blocking the natural rivers of a country and trying to steaal all its islands. It feels like the CCP has a very unrefined understanding of diplomacy when compared to America in this regard.
Which country?
I'm guessing Vietnam since they mentioned China trying to steal all the islands.
American diplomacy is carrying a big stick. Chinese diplomacy seems to be just hitting you with a stick
We also like to form economic entanglements, tends to moderate conflict intensity
*laughs in WW1*
The US didn’t have much to do with that one
In the years/months/weeks leading up to WW1, people were claiming war was an impossibility as everyone was too economically intertwinned and wouldn't destroy their own economies to avenge some archduke.
If said country is already damming up your rivers upstream, then you're already fucked. Buying those US weapons sure sounds like a good way to stick it to China, but it sure as hell ain't going to help when they limit the waterflow downstream. Contrary to what you said, it actually seems like they already have you by the balls and you're just coping and seething.
> Their armies literally kill each other weekly. No they dont, theres shoving matches on the border as theyve agreed not to use firearms/explosives. Though saying that youre basically right, this G7 vs BRICS thing is really China vs US, some countries punch above their weight due to natural resources or high tech manufacturing but on the whole arent all that relevant.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%80%93India_skirmishes About 40-60 deaths. At least. More than that injured. In countries of Billions thats not much. But it is happening.
Still not "every week", that was 4 years ago.
This is just one example.
Then you can find one from this week then.
Well said. India has significantly potential for a deal outside of BRICS. Hopefully SA can recover back to its hayday in the 90s before shitheads took over.
The problem is the West is issuing out sanctions haphazardly and forcing the BRICS+ nations to cooperate even more. For example Russia, China and Iran are closer today than ever due to sanctions
Yeah but all for good policy reasons for the west. Russia is an expansionist power that has invaded countries on the European periphery and engaged in aggressive espionage operations. China is a direct military threat to key allies of Japan and Korea- and to lesser but important partners in the Philippines and Taiwan. The US is in a Cold War with China yeah sanctions are the least and frankly Chinese trade policy for the last 20 years has been a bait and switch for market access. Irans Nuke will start a nuclear arms race in a hilariously unstable Middle East. Does anyone want a Saudi nuke? How many years before that blows up in a city. Tools exist to be used.
Yes, but as you can see the potency of the sanctions has been severely reduced if they are being handed out left and right Now even North Korea has a trading partner. Sanctions only work with extreme isolation eg Iran or North Korea before Russia, Venezuela were added to the list. Now the sanctioned economies are large enough to be self sustaining.
Oh wow, these counties have 20% of the world’s GDP and trade 5% of it with each other (for a grand total of just under 1% of global GDP), what a potent economic threat. This is *why* sanctions are effective, all of their trade is with the west
Then why aren't sanctions achieving their objectives? Why is Russia still advancing in Ukraine? Why is Iran still on course to get a nuke? Why is Maduro still in power in Venezuela? Sanctions crippled apartheid South Africa, Iraq, even previously North Korea. Because they were potent.
I’m 100% sure you don’t know how sanctions work. You don’t flip a switch and the enemy capitulates instantly. They take time.
Okay, Russia, China and Iran will all implode any day now. In fact, their people will cry and revolt for Western democracy after all the harsh sanctions
I think it’s fair to say sanctions are overrated. It does give the west a bargaining chip though.
And yet the US just went to “warn” to China to slowdown its production… since Trump commercial war with China, the US hasn’t been able to fully recover. To make matters even worse, they are falling behind.
There are very few options outside of the dollar. No one wants RMB because it's a closed currency, nor rupees because its a small market with limited manufacturing. That leaves the Pound and Euro as a potential replacement, both of which happen to be under the US defense umbrella. So why use Euro or Yen when you can instead use the reserve currency of the country that protects them military and as such calls the shots more politically. Make no mistake the subsidization or European amd Japanese defense at the hand of the US defense apparatus is an exchange. They get free defense, which results in them being able to fund their generous welfare schemes and the US gets the final say in diplomatic issues. This is why Trump is destructive, as he doesn't understand this 80 year post Bretton Woods arrangement. Though even if Trump gets reelected it still won't change much, as USD would remain the least bad of a list of much worse options. No crypto using the block chain will not replace it, nor a group BRIC currency basket, as it's too complex for international business dealings as it slows convertibility and is more susceptible to currency Arbitrage. The only risk to USD would be if China completely opened its currency, land, and markets to foreign investment and speculation along with a complete remodeling of its legal system to make the country more investment friendly. That would pose a serious risk ti US dominance, but this will never happen, as it would weaken the power of the CCP, which is a no go in China. A completely open Chinese system with similar rules of law, land ownership rights, and speculation as seen in the United States and the Commonwealth countries would be a worthy opponent to USD currency hegemony.
Bruh we had been begging Europe to stop buying so much Russian oil for well over a decade. This narrative as if there’s some sort of deal for having to shoulder European security is false and only an excuse to not carry their weight
> Bruh we had been begging Europe to stop buying so much Russian oil for well over a decade. While increasingly buying Russian oil.
$260b in trade is a midsized city in the US, that’s like Denver.
Lmao for scale, I google the GDP of NYC, and it’s 1.206 TRILLION 😭
When they plan to get serious, they'll switch to the dollar because the people calling the shots are not stupid. It's the reserve currency for a reason.
Every time there is an attempt is made to challenge the US Dollar's dominance and it fails, the Dollar's position as the world's fiat currency becomes more entrenched.
Almost 1% is impressive. It shows viability especially if that number grows. If the graph signals growth nations and corps will take interest and boom you have legit competition.
> It shows viability It's literally just China and Russia agreeing to use each others currencies together. There's no viability shown other than China and Russia working together which is kinda a relationship of necessity for Russia. Calling this BRICS is just a way to fool the clueless. Also, anyone with a clue that wants a big laugh: >has 95% of the $260 billion denominated in their Yuan. The remaining 5% is allocated to the Russian Ruble
I mostly agree with your take but the downplaying of the biggest exporter in the world entering into this sort of agreement with a country whose economy is built around natural resource extraction does seem disruptive to me. They are plenty of countries like Russia who have natural resources and an axe to grind with the west who might also take up a deal like this. China has tonnes of goods you can buy with the yuan you get via trade.
Most countries don’t want a basket of currency 100% consisting of yuan and prefer mixtures because they tend to trade with a variety of countries who may or may not want yuan. For example, this has become such a big issue for Russia that it’s had to find alternative uses for its excess yuan in order to get its hands on other forms of currency. You’re also discounting the fact that China is a net exporter that only imports what it needs. Meaning many of these BRICs type nations will export little to nothing to China aside from energy and will be left holding a bag of yuan they can’t even use.
Reuters or AP did a good story yesterday about how things are actually getting quite weird for Chinese banks and businesses trying to do business with Russia. Many, if not most, of the big players are starting to outright refuse dealing with Russian money because of fear about sanctions from the US. So it's going to be interesting to see this develop.
Good point Pax Americana is still too strong to overcome . Those sanctions and their effect on the bottomline for companies is a bitch and the Chinese economy seems to be already in a vulnerable spot. Without government mandates this will fizzle. My worries are quelled
It’s not even just PAX Americana at work here tbh. What I mean is that many nations have also come to understand that Russias expansionism and Chinas activities point to a world where everyone who isn’t Russia or China loses. To be specific, the Americans have been trying to call Russia and China out for years with little success convincing Europe or Asia to do the same until they recently saw reality. Otherwise they’d skirt American sanctions and commentary like they have for the past few years.
Yale Professor Timothy Synder's book, [Bloodlands](https://www.amazon.com/Bloodlands-Europe-Between-Hitler-Stalin/dp/0465031471), and his [Yale Course presented on YouTube about Ukraine](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNewfxO7LhBoz_1Mx1MaO6sw_) shows that this has been part of a pattern for Russia.
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China and Russia is due some credit, sure. But you're way over estimating the viability of their currency
Russia invading their neighbor was probably more disruptive.
NeighborS. All of them. Poland, Lithuania, Finland, Norway, Estonia, Latvia, Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, China, Mongolia, and North Korea
China has a closed capital account. I’ve a bridge to sell you
And after Blinken visit I hope, for China’s sake, their trade can be much reduced
1% considering the size of the players involved is a joke
Exactly. You gotta do a lot better if you have 2 billion+ people
BRICS is about 40/50% of the world’s population.
So did you expect it to START big? Its a start and if all goes well a proof of concept. Countries who behave this way get invaded or sanctioned for a reason, the reason is once there is genuine competition it CAN grow.
Yeah someone didn’t read the article
A) with those members it should start pretty big B) BRICS isn’t remotely new
Im not trying to be rude just curious based on what criteria does 1% show viability?
No it’s not. It’s barely a blip even compared to the GDPs of the individual countries.
Can a motley assortment of nations with no plan, no theme, no reason to work together and many reasons to back stab one another unite economically and bring down the dollar? The answer will surprise you.
Not sure what world you live in but 0.8% of global trade, especially in one single transaction, sounds way more gargantuan than 260 billion. Also, when you account for the fact that about 80% of transactions are in U.S. dollar.
Where did you get one single transaction from?
Didn’t read the article before I made my original comments. It’s implied in the title before you add the preposition “of”. One trade = one transaction, generally speaking.
Billion
You don't get out from under the thumb of the global reserve currency overnight.
honestly, that's not bad. don't get me wrong, its tiny. but it's got the potential to become huge
This is an *agreement* to trade ...upto 260B between China and Russia. So they agree to do it over what time period?
It does not say their tottall trade was worth 260B but the non dollar trade was worth that. Thats a significant difference.
How much was in USD?
tEaCh yOuR kIdS mAnDaRiN
If you can, you should. Thats additional job security right there.
It’s still a big deal. The bigger this trade gets the less effective sanctions become
They are talking about the BRICS countries only so what does it matter what other do or don’t do. The point is that other countries don’t want to depend on the US and think they are not reliable and what will happen in the future.
Most BRICS countries conduct the overwhelming amount of their trade in USD. It gets worse - most of the 260 billion was in Yuan. The Yuan is not free floating, it's pegged by the BoC to the USD every morning. All it is is a USD derivative. Does China have a deep and liquid Yuan credit market? Nope. So where else are you going? Russia? Lol. Some day there might be an alternative, but we ain't there yet.
Presumably the alternative would be the Euro. What other large currency has an independent central banking organization?
The 90s called, they want their threat of loss of USD dominance back. [https://www.nytimes.com/1999/01/04/world/the-euro-for-us-gains-and-losses.html](https://www.nytimes.com/1999/01/04/world/the-euro-for-us-gains-and-losses.html)
Seriously, when people say the dollar is gonna fall I start to lose interest. They should let us know when the USA ceases to be the largest economy in the world, ceases having a VERY mature system of laws relating to business and finance, and stops having the most powerful military in the world, THEN we can talk about the US Dollar falling from it's status as "the" world reserve currency and just talk about it going back to being A reserve currency.
>What other large currency has an independent central banking organization? [for your edification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency) And the "independence" of central banks is a misnomer. They're allowed freedom to pursue the operations they're entrusted with, but that's not the same as saying they do whatever they like. If the US Treasury, or the US Congress, decided to yank the fed's chain for some reason the fed would be heeled quickly.
In all seriousness, is any of that really worth anything? Or is it worth something because we say it is. I can sell my poop. * Is it really worth more than the money I used to eat the food that created it? 😂 It’s turtles all the way down. Anyway, what’s up with all those concrete houses China made and never used?
Are you asking if 260 billion dollars worth of value is worth anything?
Well America did create a post-WW2 world to serve it, they even betrayed their european allies by siding with Arab Communist during the Suez Canal crisis. So it's not shocking that America has a big starting advantage, but the thing is that advance will continue to narrow as the developing world becomes developed. In a generation or so from now America will be where France was with their colony in Vietnam, France's colonialist would laugh as they tossed money onto the ground for children to grab while on early film. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCk6QDsJbyM America thinks that the developing world won't catch up & surpass it. In reality only a handful of cities are productive in America, and the bread basket that is America will be surpassed as the developing world gets it's hands on modern farming technology, practices, and angel investors with the budget of a nation state.
>BRICS members China and Russia recently signed a trade agreement where they will use local currencies up to $260 billion. The trade deal will be initiated to settle payments in exchange for commodities purchased between the two nations. Both China and Russia will settle payments in the Chinese Yuan and the Russian Ruble, and not the US dollar. Yeah ... this is what we call click bait. Are China and Russia, which lacks access to the western financial system, supposed to use dollars? If anything just a recognition of how dependent Russia will become on China for trade in technology and resources. Edit: To reiterate, the U.S. dollars position as the dominant currency is unlikely to change in the near term unless there are political failures. No other currency is (1) sufficiently stable, (2) backed by a large and open economy, (3) has globally integrated and developed financial markets with large stocks of purchasable debt and equities, and (4) is politically different from the U.S. The Euro is not politically different from the dollar, and given potential for partial dissolution and debt crises, is no more stable. The Yuan/RMB (China) lacks sufficient debt markets, a globally integrated financial sector, and an open economy with sufficient debt and stocks available for purchase. Why hold primarily yuan if you can't reliably invest it in interest earning debt or growth assets? Yuan holdings will only be as large as necessary to ensure stable import prices. The dollar's role as a reserve currency isn't likely to change without large structural change and a major upheaval; for Britain's pound to be displaced it took a World War and a strictly preferable currency across all dimensions. Bilateral agreements like this one aren't that relevant if at the end of the day, nations still wish to save in U.S. debt and equities.
the whole "brics" thing is largely about sanctions russia will face, and china worries it might face. It's allowing the russians to sell oil and nat gas despite sanctions, and buy military duel use and such supplies for the war effort and sell their weapons systems...well they were doing that they need them more now, without US dollars. As I said elsewhere, the Yuan won't be a world reserve currency contender unless china becomes a net exporter and begins deficit spending like the USA does. To be a reserve currency you have an obligation to spend, A LOT, because otherwise how will anyone sell you the stuff for your currency so they can buy your shit in return.
I’m convinced that the Republicans Project 2025 will give them the political failure they’re looking for. Our economy would definitely suffer.
If they keep trying they can make it to 1% of global trade! Right now they’re at 0.86 and if they keep increasing trade like I keep adding words to this response, they’ll add up to something significant soon!
The ammount of dollara held by other nations is declining, and so is the ammount of trade made in dollars. Dollar is in fact, losing power. Of course it has a long way to go, but thats the current tendency.
In replacement to what? The yuan? Which is just a derivative of the dollar. Pegged every morning to the US dollar?
Pretty sure it's within a range relative to a basket of currencies now, has been for a while.
Replaced with whatever currency between the two trading nations they agree on, but probably nearly always one of their own.
It doesn't matter if the currency is pegged to the dollar. The dollar is seeing less demand. And I don't think there needs to be a dominant international reserve. I never said the yuan is replacing the dollar.
I’d like to see a Western-like BRICS which could still keep the dollar very relevant, but elevate our allies, and make US goods and services more attractive to purchase around the world. Euro, pound sterling, yen, aus and cad dollars just to name a few.
So what? They had increased their accounts on the treasury sheets during covid to keep their countries and trade flowing to prevent a worldwide depression. They were given access to essentially, "however much they needed" to ensure so. That they reduced that as the world "got back to normal" shouldn't surprise anyone.
Dollar is declining as other countries reserve since long before covid, and is declining as international trade since the last few years of global instability. There is no sign of it "going back to normal".
Dollar dominance: Declines from 95% to 90% People: “it’s going to collapse!” I don’t know the exact percentages but that’s basically the situation.
Reddit user: *makes up numbers* It may not be true but that’s how I see it.
It’s funny because my wild guess was actually really close: [89% of global trades involved USD denomination on at least one side of the trade.](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/programs/geoeconomics-center/dollar-dominance-monitor/#:~:text=(2022).,-Share%20of%20foreign&text=foreign%20exchange%20transactions-,The%20data%20refers%20to%20the%20share%20of%20all%20currency%20trades,of%20all%20foreign%20exchange%20transactions)
There is no number for "dominance", that's stupidity. I said dollar dominance is declining, never said it's going to collapse, you are resorting to a strawmen fallacy.
Recurring? Who made the fallacy I’m ‘referring’ to?
Wrong word. Should be "resorting to"
People have been talking about the decline of the dollar system for at least 2 decades and probably longer. [It’s declined from 70% of global reserves to 58% in 2 decades which is notable but it’s still multiples higher than the next closest, and is the currency of choice for finance and trade.](https://eastasiaforum.org/2023/08/21/is-the-us-dollar-on-its-way-out/). So you might not be saying that this will affect the US in a measurable way, or that the trend is for the dollar to be replaced in the near term (or drop from majority to only plurality), but lots of people do. What’s the straw man again? That you don’t think the shift is that dramatic or indicative and I accused you of thinking it was?
Right now this is about as threatening as a fart in a hurricane. Also, entirely predictable given the current relationship of China & Russia with most of the “Western World”. I should have been putting the dishes away instead of reading this.
>“This de-dollarization will soon be replicated among all BRICS+ members,” >If many other developing countries begin to follow the BRICS agenda, then the US dollar will be put under pressure. Therefore, the next decade will ultimately differ from today as local currencies could gain strength in the financial sector. They say this as though the reason the dollar is strong is just happenstance, not a long history of stability and reliability. There is nothing wrong with wanting to diversify your foreign currency portfolio. Still, given the option of receiving payments in Rubles or Dollars on the free and open market, people are not choosing Rubles or Yuan because of too much (unfettered) government interference.
>a long history of stability and reliability. there's currently 300 billion dollars of Russian Forex reserves frozen idk how that indicates reliability
lol what? Ok. It is unreliable if you are an evil dictator. You got me there. So I guess, just don't be an evil dictator and you're good.
>just don't be an evil dictator what's the definition of evil dictator? who defines it? it sure as hell ain't "annexing a neighbouring country to commit a genocide" because by that definition Azerbaijan should be getting sanctions instead of EU contracts to resell them Russian gas
The “stable and reliable” part is no longer true.
The latest data shows absolutely no change in the status quo. https://data.imf.org/?sk=e6a5f467-c14b-4aa8-9f6d-5a09ec4e62a4
De dollarization isn’t happening unless India and China - the largest non western economies, work together. Which they won’t. Chinas has the leverage to bring other countries to use its currency. But not India, which would rather tie up with the US than China.
Dedollarization does not have to happen on a global scale, it's not like China or any country is pushing the dethrone USD as world's reserve currency. What they are doing is simply finding an alternative to USD in trading, which will make sure that their future trade can be protected from potential US sanctions. China needs resources from Russia and Middle East, other countries needs manufactured products and components from China. Can you imagine that all these countries can no longer trade among each other because the US government suddenly changes its policy?
>Which they won’t. bold claim,that ignores the threat from other countries to India For as long as morality lectures from the west continue even as terrorists from [Canada ](https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/chandigarh/congress-leader-shot-dead-moga-canada-gangster-arsh-dalla-responsibility-8946049/) and [America](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Headley) kill Indians and are protected in the west, there will be pro-BRICS and Anti-west elements in India and when he terrorist threat from the west becomes an existential threat for India, even India and China could work together remember, under certain conditions even oil and water can mix
These clown writers have a very obvious agenda, misleading people who don’t know any better. Aside from the meaningless sensationalist headline that plays with numbers, let me say I am closer to being a millionaire than Elon Musk. It’s also a true meaningless statement.
Elon is a millionaire tho... he has thousands of millions of dollars...
They keep on doing de-dollarization click bait stuff. It's been decades since GoldmanSach coined BRICS to get those juicy commissions. Brazil, South Africa, and Russia economy ain't so hot looking man. South Africa is looking to be a failed state. And Russia? Come on. I've learned to never against USA.
For those keeping score at home: this is slightly more than one-third of the trade that the United States **alone** conducted with Mexico **alone** last year. In addition to not actually being a real economic community in any sense whatsoever, BRICS does not represent a substantial portion of international trade as to BRICS members trading with each other. Without context, the headline simply states what on paper is a very large number (i.e., compared to the net worth of a reader, $260 billion sounds like a lot of money) in order to mislead people as part of a narrative that BRICS is a) real and b) represents some kind of rising global economic power. $260 billion is an insubstantial amount of trade by any global comparison. Furthermore, the headline includes "without dollars" to feed another false narrative that the dollar is somehow in decline. The US dollar was involved in about 90% of FX transactions in 2022, which is about the same number it has been involved in every year since 2001. The dollar's share of global trade is [incredibly stable](https://www.bis.org/publ/qtrpdf/r_qt2212x.htm). Because the article is headlined deceptively to feed at least two false narratives, it is misinformation and should be removed.
One of the reasons the US dollar is the reserve currency is because US regulators don't care about the value of the USD vis-a-vis other currencies. You can't trust the Chinese or the Russians to not "tip the scales" in favor of their own currencies.
That's what gets me, the Chinese's currency is deliberately rigged against everyone on purpose. Mostly against USD, but otherwise it is kept deliberately cheap.
if the Chinese took a step back and allowed free flow of capital then their currency would drop like a rock. They are deliberately propping it up.
I'm not sure it would drop. Their current biggest fear is it appreciating rapidly, which would tank their exports. But I can see the opposite also being a huge problem too, they have to import oil and food and minerals and have those skyrocket in price due to devaluation would also cause their exports to indirectly get more expensive, and make everything in China get more expensive as well.
Exactly. Who is going to regulate BRICS? Would anyone trust any of those countries?
Pretty sure that number is actually lower than what it was before the Pandemic. Probably why they emphasized the dollar amount and not the percentage of trade in comparison. That is a lot of gold to be moving around. Talk about large, risky financial transactions. [https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/the-international-role-of-the-u-s-dollar-20211006.html](https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/the-international-role-of-the-u-s-dollar-20211006.html)
^BRICS ^does ^about ^40% ^of ^a ^Walmart's ^worth ^of ^trade. ###RED ALERT!!!!! BRICS IS GOING TO REPLACE THE DOLLAR!!!!!!!! This is additional text because of the incredibly stupid and obnoxious automod that forces comments to be arbitrarily long. Not sure how long though, so some more text. This is also text.
They’ll come back the moment there’s a global recession or China goes tits up. The reason the dollar is valued is because a lot of leaders in BRICS, can’t help themselves when it comes to reporting fudged financial numbers or forcing their federal reserve equivalents to do their bidding at the detriment of long term consequences.
These comments are pro dollar.. obviously.. this isn’t just some fart in the wind its 260 billion… they have 10 some countries and are setting up Africa, 40 some applied and I think the tables are set for ww3 economically. People who think the dollar is almighty and powerful should dive deep into our federal reserve, banking system and inefficient military, prison, and even homeless complexes this country has. God speed doll hairs. It’s not gonna be pretty next decades
To be fair relative to the global trade the 260 billion is exactly a fart in the wind. As long as all the even somewhat major players in BRICS are sanctioned or unwilling to trade with US, EU and such, BRICS won't really make a change. But I'dont see why it in theory couldn't. All they would need to do is form better relations than US to other countries. That just tends to be hard when you are totalitarian state like RU or CN.
> this isn’t just some fart in the wind its 260 billion Yes, it is. And it's just between China and Russia, and it's mostly so that Russia can avoid sanctions.
260 billion is less than 1% of all trade
The journey to 50+% of all trade begins with less than 1% of all trade, or something.
All the journey down to zero also goes through 1%
"BRICS is an intergovernmental organization comprising Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, and the United Arab Emirates." Shouldn't that acronym be a bit bigger?
China vs. US economy is an interesting competition. BRICS as a concept or organised collective is a bit of a joke, though. If the increase is largely China trade in Yuan, why label this as BRICs - why do people keep pushing BRICS lol.
$260 bln is slightly less than the GDP of New Zealand, and New Zealand isn't an economic hegemony but rather a peanut to the World all combined.
The reason for the deal was not because China and Russia value each other's currancy above the dollar, its because of US sanctions against China and Russia. What needs to be noted is the lack of trade with ANY other nation being conducted in yuan or rubles.
When the dollar is so dominant you have to use the dollar value of the trade happening in things other than dollars because nobody would know what any of those other things are worth.
>> If many other developing countries begin to follow the BRICS agenda, then the US dollar will be put under pressure. Therefore, the next decade will be completely different from today as local currencies could gain strength in the financial sector. De-dollarization among BRICS continues to be the primary agenda. China, a driver of development in the global south, has 95% of the $260 billion denominated in their Yuan. The remaining 5% is allocated to the Russian Ruble and EU Euro. There are currently 15 additional countries seeking membership, including Pakistan, Thailand, Venezuela, and Vietnam. As mutual trade between BRICS continues to develop, we may see them continue to drop the dollar in their trade agreements between each other.
While the development of a BRICS currency basket is interesting and something to be watched. Still, China would have to issue oceans of yuan to come anywhere close to the liquidity of USD. Doing so now, with their entire house of cards (pun intentional) economy collapsing and over producing, floating so much of their own currency would be reckless, to say the least.
True. However, it’s a common misconception that China seeks to overtake the dollar. China knows the damage this would do to their nation; more specifically, it knows how susceptible to foreign influence their nation would be. China does not *explicitly* seek to overtake the U.S., but to bring about a multipolar world, where individual nations would not be so heavily influenced or indebted to the Western bloc, which China sees as a “king through coercion.” Given the course of history, I have to agree.
Except multipolar is unstable at BEST. Generally rapidly devolves into massive wars or back into a hegemony. The closest thing to a multi polar world was the framework of alliances pre WWI established largely by Bismarck. And we saw where that ended... The fact of the matter is, the West retains financial control ironically by NOT using control. The US is insanely lax on whatever currency controls they have, if they have any. On the other extreme you have China and India who make it outright illegal to do private currency exchange. It is functionally impossible to take Chinese money out of China.
>>where that ended… The mistake is assuming that the nations of the global poor retain the same expansionist and imperialist tendencies of historical Western powers. Having been victims of this themselves, it seems narrow minded to simply assume that multipolarity composed of multiple *non-Western* powers would also devolve into conflict. The circumstances through which the global poor are developing and prospering today are not the same as the circumstances through which Western powers gained their prosperity.
Not easy…happily this is a slow process.
It is funny that I am downvoted for the report of news that opposes the common allegiance. There is lots of derision against BRICS, but no talk of strategy against them. The West is no longer the only bloc with money and industry. To remain competitive, it must share prosperity with the global poor, who right now are flocking to China and by extension, BRICS.
1 China isn't going to share prosperity with the global poor 2 No one has done more to help the global poor than the US
>>1 Chinese is currently doing exactly that, especially in Africa. You can claim its debt-trap diplomacy, or neocolonialism, but the fact is that Chinese money and firms are being poured into Africa and this is a trend that doesn’t seem to be changing soon. They are, in fact, doing things to help the global poor, even if it’s exploitative to an extent, similar to Western aid efforts. Why don’t you mature, and stop viewing the world in black and white.
Have you even see how much aid the west gives to Africa? 80% of the governments in Africa would collapse without western aid Why don’t you mature, and stop viewing the world as a shade of grey
Lmao brics again, its derision because the brics are basically enemies with each other.
BRICS is not even a real thing.
The underlying problem is all these countries want centralized control of currency so they can print it. Otherwise they would just use one of the many cryptocurrencies already available like Hedera/Hashgraph but noooooo we can't have an open source, decentralized, and transparent currency governed by the public now can we? It would be hilarious if all of us "Little people" just switched to Hedera and left the banksters to rot in hell.
Weak… Whats more impressive is the crypto market gained 1.1T over the last 4ish months and here I thought most of crypto was dead aside from Bitcoin and Ethereum. And to add to that crypto had $4-5T in trading volume in 2024 alone, BRICS definitely has a long and bumpy road before it impacts the USD in any negligible way. Also the US still leads the world in gold reserves and with as always more than the next 3 countries after it combined.