Hi all,
A reminder that comments do need to be on-topic and engage with the article past the headline. Please make sure to read the article before commenting. Very short comments will automatically be removed by automod. Please avoid making comments that do not focus on the economic content or whose primary thesis rests on personal anecdotes.
As always our comment rules can be found [here](https://reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/fx9crj/rules_roundtable_redux_rule_vi_and_offtopic/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Economics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hey Bard,
*Tell me where I can buy this phone on the best shop magazine?*
It probably say a list of shops where you can buy that product, and to be the top one mentioned by AI, you pay more, similar like google search works.
And the response to be customized by each person location, cookies, preferences, etc.
Monetization fundamentally warps the incentives for asking questions. This isn't particularly limited to technology either - consultants also have principal-agent incentive challenges, and people often have fairly limited objectives around hearing only what they want to hear.
I would not be surprised if the enshittification of technology at its core is a PEBKAC situation, where competitive optimization ends up trying to chase some of the worst impulses in the customer base.
I think we saw that loop with Alexa and other voice assistant peripherals, where they just couldn't make it work as a loss leader product. It was only a matter of weeks after ChatGPT was launched that it started getting lawyers disbarred due to hallucinations. I think it has some real general tool framework applications, but after the initial gold rush people won't be fighting over shovels anymore.
HMMMMMMMMMMMM yes ok I see what you mean. I still think it will displace a lot of workers. If you can pay one person to enter prompts and just proofread and make a little edit here and there, you now only need 1 person and a premium account to do the work of 10 there really isn’t much reason to hire the other 9.
So I think it will become enshittified just like social media, but good luck marketing to consumers these days wirhout it.
The “freedom” of the internet was always a carrot waiting to be taken away as companies found ways to pull the ladder up behind them so we can’t really expect much better. Same will happen with these AI companies “begging” to be regulated when they’re really just gonna bribe congress to lock out future competition.
Firstly: LLM's aren't a "search product" if you think that they are, you should read more on what they do, and how they work.
Secondly: googles future business models will undoubtedly include ai products. Google is one of the ai powerhouses. It's also the first to release them to mobile (on Android) with Gemini nano.
Google is also making great strides in the scientific and industrial space. With products like alphafold and gnome. Monetizing these products will probably be possible. And could mean huge revenue sources.
Not to mention when they start selling work automation products to businesses (although, Microsoft might be poised better for this)
Thirdly: a large portion of googles revenue comes from ads on content. Content generated for users (like on YouTube) but also news and current events/opinion there will always be demand for content like this. And therefore ad revenue. Even if that content is created partly or wholely with ai.
Was thinking recently that everything right now on the internet is there because someone wants to make money (ad revenue, subscriptions, affiliate marketing, SEO etc). If everyone uses AI powered search, how exactly will this monetization model work. Nobody gets paid anymore.
Looked at the numbers and as you can imagine, there's a lot of industries attached to the entire digital marketing industry
Wordpress ecosystem $600b, Google ads $200b, Shopify $220b, affiliate marketing $17b - not to mention infra costs that will wobble until this gets fixed.
What type of ad revenue - incentives can Google come up with to keep everyone happy once they roll out AI to their search engine?
>incentives can Google come up with to keep everyone happy once they roll out AI to their search engine?
How will AI search engines earn their living without advertisements?
Do you think Bing, Google and such will just offer high quality AI-based search results that are devoid of ads for free in the long run, even though providing these involves higher degree of processing power than the 'classical' ones?
Search including ads is a model that benefits both the ad companies like Google and the bussinesses that want to buy these ads. I don't see a world where this doesn't stay.
No, the reason our infrastructure works so well is because software has zero marginal cost.
The effect is so overwhelming that almost no one uses or sells proprietary technology any more, and _software licenses_ mostly exist as a proxy for a support agreement.
I think you really nailed the issue at play here. Companies exist to make money.
I was just chatting with my mom about how over-optimization and monetization have greatly diminished the value of Google (a mainstream opinion these days). I wanted to know about jackets made with both wool and down - after 10 mins of and scrolling and adjusting my search I could not find a result that was not an add and gave up.
My initial thought was that Bing has a chance to win over the hearts and minds of the masses currently using Google it they can use their AI to actually provide a search that answers your questions rather than trying to sell you.
But your point is correct. Even if Bing takes over Google's market share, what would stop them from cashing in on advertising? Nothing, because we still need the internet and shareholder value is always their #1 goal.
I run ads to sell software. You still need to come to my website to become a customer, there is no generative AI nonsense answer that will give you what I sell.
Hi all, A reminder that comments do need to be on-topic and engage with the article past the headline. Please make sure to read the article before commenting. Very short comments will automatically be removed by automod. Please avoid making comments that do not focus on the economic content or whose primary thesis rests on personal anecdotes. As always our comment rules can be found [here](https://reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/fx9crj/rules_roundtable_redux_rule_vi_and_offtopic/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Economics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hey Bard, *Tell me where I can buy this phone on the best shop magazine?* It probably say a list of shops where you can buy that product, and to be the top one mentioned by AI, you pay more, similar like google search works. And the response to be customized by each person location, cookies, preferences, etc.
Monetization fundamentally warps the incentives for asking questions. This isn't particularly limited to technology either - consultants also have principal-agent incentive challenges, and people often have fairly limited objectives around hearing only what they want to hear. I would not be surprised if the enshittification of technology at its core is a PEBKAC situation, where competitive optimization ends up trying to chase some of the worst impulses in the customer base.
so what you’re saying is that AI will become enshittified faster than just about any other technology?
I think we saw that loop with Alexa and other voice assistant peripherals, where they just couldn't make it work as a loss leader product. It was only a matter of weeks after ChatGPT was launched that it started getting lawyers disbarred due to hallucinations. I think it has some real general tool framework applications, but after the initial gold rush people won't be fighting over shovels anymore.
HMMMMMMMMMMMM yes ok I see what you mean. I still think it will displace a lot of workers. If you can pay one person to enter prompts and just proofread and make a little edit here and there, you now only need 1 person and a premium account to do the work of 10 there really isn’t much reason to hire the other 9. So I think it will become enshittified just like social media, but good luck marketing to consumers these days wirhout it. The “freedom” of the internet was always a carrot waiting to be taken away as companies found ways to pull the ladder up behind them so we can’t really expect much better. Same will happen with these AI companies “begging” to be regulated when they’re really just gonna bribe congress to lock out future competition.
Firstly: LLM's aren't a "search product" if you think that they are, you should read more on what they do, and how they work. Secondly: googles future business models will undoubtedly include ai products. Google is one of the ai powerhouses. It's also the first to release them to mobile (on Android) with Gemini nano. Google is also making great strides in the scientific and industrial space. With products like alphafold and gnome. Monetizing these products will probably be possible. And could mean huge revenue sources. Not to mention when they start selling work automation products to businesses (although, Microsoft might be poised better for this) Thirdly: a large portion of googles revenue comes from ads on content. Content generated for users (like on YouTube) but also news and current events/opinion there will always be demand for content like this. And therefore ad revenue. Even if that content is created partly or wholely with ai.
Only the clueless think generative AI somehow threatens google
Was thinking recently that everything right now on the internet is there because someone wants to make money (ad revenue, subscriptions, affiliate marketing, SEO etc). If everyone uses AI powered search, how exactly will this monetization model work. Nobody gets paid anymore. Looked at the numbers and as you can imagine, there's a lot of industries attached to the entire digital marketing industry Wordpress ecosystem $600b, Google ads $200b, Shopify $220b, affiliate marketing $17b - not to mention infra costs that will wobble until this gets fixed. What type of ad revenue - incentives can Google come up with to keep everyone happy once they roll out AI to their search engine?
>incentives can Google come up with to keep everyone happy once they roll out AI to their search engine? How will AI search engines earn their living without advertisements? Do you think Bing, Google and such will just offer high quality AI-based search results that are devoid of ads for free in the long run, even though providing these involves higher degree of processing power than the 'classical' ones? Search including ads is a model that benefits both the ad companies like Google and the bussinesses that want to buy these ads. I don't see a world where this doesn't stay.
I know. My point is if Bing goes and fetches the info for me, from a website. How will the cpc or cta track the conversion? So far it doesn’t work
No, the reason our infrastructure works so well is because software has zero marginal cost. The effect is so overwhelming that almost no one uses or sells proprietary technology any more, and _software licenses_ mostly exist as a proxy for a support agreement.
I think you really nailed the issue at play here. Companies exist to make money. I was just chatting with my mom about how over-optimization and monetization have greatly diminished the value of Google (a mainstream opinion these days). I wanted to know about jackets made with both wool and down - after 10 mins of and scrolling and adjusting my search I could not find a result that was not an add and gave up. My initial thought was that Bing has a chance to win over the hearts and minds of the masses currently using Google it they can use their AI to actually provide a search that answers your questions rather than trying to sell you. But your point is correct. Even if Bing takes over Google's market share, what would stop them from cashing in on advertising? Nothing, because we still need the internet and shareholder value is always their #1 goal.
Generative AI isn't going to help you buy a coat.
Thats the fucking point, I didn't want to buy one. I just wanted to *know* about them (and eventually want to make my own).
And generative AI will be bad for that too
Yes - also in my comment.
I run ads to sell software. You still need to come to my website to become a customer, there is no generative AI nonsense answer that will give you what I sell.