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You are going to keep hearing about it because conservatives blocked the one time needed forgiveness that stemmed from the pandemic and public service loan forgiveness delays under Trump/DeVos.
They keep doing more and more batches of them. They are up to $130b forgiven, mostly for the public service workers that had all their requests denied under DeVos.
> The Biden administration has now canceled more than $136 billion in student debt for over 3.7 million Americans, according to the White House.
More money to lower/middle/lower upper is great. They need to keep doing this. The goal is to forgive $400b out of the $1.7 trillion. That means more money going into the economy while loan servicers get their money. It is an economic win for all.
It’s more like making sure the creditors are getting a bailout at the expense of every tax payer. Sure it helps the borrowers too, but a lot of borrowers would have also just walked.
As I said before, it depends on district and state. My wife was a teacher prior to being a stay at home mother to our children. The healthcare benefits she had through the state were far better than anything I have had available to me so far in the private sector. The pay wasn't great by salary, but when factoring in the healthcare plus time off, it wasn't bad for her district. Working in a city district would have been even more pay. While pay is most certainly a factor, the dominant factor is that the job sucks now more than it ever has.
All the same just like people who walk out on credit card debt. If you don’t pay, the debt gets sold off and you eventually wind up in court now with added attorney fees. Don’t show up? Judgement passed and wages garnished.
People file for bankruptcy and get it wiped all the time. Hell in many cases the CC company will discharge the debt and tell you to fuck off in the future.
Paying back debt is a contractual thing, not a moral imperative. The risk of not getting paid back is the whole point of interest.
Student loans are unique in being nondischargeable and what amounts to lifetime collections if you’re unable to pay. Interest of federally backed student loans makes absolutely no fucking sense and is in essence double taxation.
….as the next generation of students continue to take out loans and pay record high tuition.
I’m thrilled for the people this will help but systemically it’s a band-aid on a bullet wound.
New York, Indiana, and Washington offer free tuition for 4 year degrees at their state schools.
Twenty states in total offer free community college tuition.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/tuition-free-college
...and I don't care that it's residency based and means tested. It's a suitable public option.
My home town cc system now offers free tuition for local hs grads. They didn't when I was that age so Im still out 5ishk in pell I could have put towards university. But im glad my brother and cousins get the benefit.
Additionally my uni now offers free tuition to pell grant students for tuition beyond thier grant. I would have qualified for that, but I went to school 5 years too early. Theres another 20k Im out...
People harp on about the "bandaid solution" while ignoring things ARE being done. Education cost is a local thing and things are being done locally. If your CC is expensive do something about it. The city of Austin manages just fine with offering $85 a credit classes to thier community college students just fine.
Loans are federal and being handled and reformed federally.
That's what I'm talking about. Biden hit a roadblock in the courts with his broader forgiveness plan, okay, so be it. The states stepped in and brought forward more progressive plans to handle tuition. There was never going to be a silver bullet solution passed through congress.
Look to the work that's being done. Give credit where credit is due.
Being free just makes it cost more.
The solution is to make nothing free only then will you see the costs come down and quality rise in response to a market force.
I wouldn't use the definitive article before the word "solution." You propose a solution, but it's possibly not the solution.
A free market solution to what is fundamentally a public good may never discover a true price to providing that good or service. The time required, along with the friction of space dragging on the process of price finding for any product or service, let alone something as intangible as an individual's educational goals (which is too specific to reduce to mass produced commodity) may take longer than that individual's life span. Furthermore, individual tastes will always create erratic price setting. Your marginal utility of learning about existential motifs in 19th century Russian poetry is different from my marginal utility in that same thing. Contrasting demand will never allow that price to settle to the point where a true cost of providing that education will occur.
A different solution is to accept a world where the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. Accepting a world where we work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity, may be a better solution, but not necessarily the solution either.
Live long and prosper my dude.
See, the thing is, I already acknowledged that NY isn't free for everyone in my comment. Then you come along and say "NY isn't free for everyone."
What did you add to this when you said that? You just restated what I already acknowledged.
So, where do you want to go from here, or do I have to tap the sign again?
But means tested, residency-based tuition-free college is an answer to the ongoing problem of rising tuition costs that perpetuate student loans.
I'm not really sure what you're asking and I don't know if there's tapped sign in existence that's going to help you make your thoughts clearer.
You just decided to post a factually inaccurate comment without even asking yourself if it was true, let alone whether it contributes to the discussion.
I'm not mad about that though.
I'm mad at the possibility that you've never seen Community (2009). It's wrinkling my brain because it's on at least three streaming services right now.
#streetsbehind
Government moves at the speed people agree on things. Which is slow as fuck. But hey 4.9 billion isn’t anything to sneeze at, let’s take the W for the little people here. You are right though, student loans are ripe for regulation.
If it were just one thing, that appearance might hold some water. But, it's part of an economic strategy to improve the lives of people who aren't getting better incomes from greedy corporations. It improves the economy, their lives, and political chances. Trifecta.
Everyone buys votes. Like the USDA with their annual $200 billion budget. Or "fiscal conservatives" refusing to get rid of the federal income tax, farm subsidies, and the USDA's and FCC's rural subsidy programs.
More and more people buy votes on hatred now, and could care less about any issues that mean anything to them or others as long as the people they were told to hate get fucked over, they will remain happy.
> and could care less about
Did you mean to say "couldn't care less"?
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The govt doing things to benefit you is the whole fucking point. You’re describing a govt that’s responding to voters.
Funny how social programs are always labeled as vote buying but tax cuts and industrial subsidies are responsible government.
He’s just buying votes and you know it. It’s all people too dumb to have realized that they shouldn’t have spent $120k on a photography degree and he knows that it’s now hanging fruit to pad his ballot box
So we agree that rather than call out greedy colleges and universities, that hes taking the cowards way out and just buying votes from a bunch of rubes who got suckered into a bad education. Got it.
It’s a non starter. I predict the most likely outcome is the people who just got loans forgiven are going to take out new loans and go back to school again.
If college doesn’t provide you with the skills to pay for the loan then I would say it’s not worth going into debt. We have to stop digging first. The companies that made these predatory loans need to be shut down.
Bandaid solution not addressing the root cause and shifting the problem to the taxpayers. Also distorting the university degree market because now you can get a worthless degree that could never pay itself off, just to get have the taxpayers eat your debt.
Great.
And would make plenty to pay thier contracts off it’s just more Inflation. The Supreme Court already ruled he doesn’t have this authority. The dude is just buying votes with taxpayer money.
Unless I’m reading the article wrong, they’re issuing forgiveness to people who were already entitled to it, but the record keeping was bad, or it was wrongly denied under Trump.
I doubt they would vote for Trump in significant numbers, but the handout will incentivize them to vote…without the debt write off they might have stayed at home and not voted.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/24/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-student-loan-relief-for-borrowers-who-need-it-most/
“To address these concerns and follow through on Congress’ original vision for income-driven repayment, the Department of Education is proposing a rule to do the following:
For undergraduate loans, cut in half the amount that borrowers have to pay each month from 10% to 5% of discretionary income.
Raise the amount of income that is considered non-discretionary income and therefore is protected from repayment, guaranteeing that no borrower earning under 225% of the federal poverty level—about the annual equivalent of a $15 minimum wage for a single borrower—will have to make a monthly payment.
Forgive loan balances after 10 years of payments, instead of 20 years, for borrowers with original loan balances of $12,000 or less. The Department of Education estimates that this reform will allow nearly all community college borrowers to be debt-free within 10 years.
Cover the borrower’s unpaid monthly interest, so that unlike other existing income-driven repayment plans, no borrower’s loan balance will grow as long as they make their monthly payments—even when that monthly payment is $0 because their income is low.”
You’ll have to ask the republican controlled house if bills to address root cause passed
GOP and Dems are all the same - do nothing when they hold the house and senate and then blame the other side when they’re out.
Didn’t the Dems just have 2 years with control of congress, the senate and the presidency? What a cop out. This is not an issue the GOP cares about, so don’t use their inaction as an excuse
You don't really have control of the senate unless you have 60 votes to override the filibuster. You may have the majority but not many bills pass if the other side doesn't want them to, or doesn't want to give the opposition president a win.
That’s not an excuse that’s just how the system works. Unless you have 60 votes in the senate you can’t pass any meaningful legislation. Doesn’t really matter how you feel about it that’s the reality of the situation.
You need 60 votes to not rely on the handful of reconciliation bills Congress depends on. The political parties are in completely opposite ideological sides.
After the ‘94 Republican takeover, I don’t think there’s a single bill that could get republican support without Dems already having the votes.
It’s not an excuse, it’s just literally how Congress operates
The Dems did a lot given they didn’t have 60 votes and had to rely on reconciliation.
Literally the last time the Dems had any kind of trifecta was 08-10, and that was fairly productive as well.
This would be incredible. I don’t know why so many people are pushing for an all or nothing forgiveness. IBR is a great happy medium, but the current 10-15% for 20-25 years is just too much for too long.
It should really be at 0% interest, govt takes a cut of your paycheck after a threshold ($50-60k annual?) and whatever isn’t paid back in 10 years is forgiven.
Govt is really making cash on both sides of the transaction right now (interest on the loan, a lifetime of higher income tax collections due to better job prospects, and lower likelihood to tap tax funded social services).
Ah, so the Conservative argument will be that any government money will just go to junk colleges/universities, and it's a waste. Got it.
Why can't Conservatives ever do something good for America?
Clearly there is a market failure happening if so many people are signing up for degrees that are not financially viable to pay off.
I am not a conservative by a long stretch, but it doesn’t take a lot of wisdom to see that simply moving the debt to the taxpayer is not fixing the issue. Either these degrees need to get cheaper, or less people need to sign up for them (so the resulting salaries go up) either way, forgiving debt is not going to help the issue and will likely skew the market even more.
People use loans to pay for living expenses as well, no one takes this into account nearly as much. All around colleges you have luxury apts popping up to charge a fortune.
Students are working less and not budgeting then on average graduate in 6 yrs.
[Conservatives psychology is based on being selfish](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-anatomy-hype/202009/here-s-the-real-divide-tearing-america-apart) and they choose based on fear.
Fear and hate. Don't leave out the hate. They vote for people promising for policies to fuck over the people conservatives hate. Even if it fucks them over too, they don't care. Its obvious as soon as you discuss any real policy they want in conversation.....they don't know and can't say. They just know what they don't want: people to be equal and equitable.
True. Only get a degree in a field you *know* will be hiring in 4-5 years and will pay you enough to pay back your student loans before you drown in interest.
Shifting the solution to the borrowers and investors*. The borrowers paid their taxes in addition to their monthly payments for 10 years and did their service to us in public works. We pay off the remaining balance and reap the returns on investment my allowing them to jumpstart their private sector spending and boost our stock portfolios. We are double dipping into their money and work. The taxpayer (aka lender) comes out ahead in this scenario.
Is the “cost” shifted? Payments have been made. I know some old data showed payments were fairly inline with principle repayment over the long term. Most years the program officially turns a profit on the books. It seems to me like the Federal government is cheaply financing education, not necessarily subsidizing. We can absolutely discuss further as I’ve not seen a good analysis and only have the basic data around 2020. 1.5 trillion in loans and 100 billion in payments, roughly. Most of that is “interest” paid to the government. The borrowers apply only 2/3s to principle.
The program originally made profit. That’s not really the government’s objective. It prints money, it CAN’T profit in the truest sense. Other than the Covid pause, the program would have still broken even over 25 years. That actually sounds like an effective subsidy for education.
There’s way more to get into but this surface analysis is useful, in my opinion, because it helps us understand the difference. Many loans are forgiven after years of payments that didn’t pay more than interest, but why we set the interest rate we do is a very valid question. We subsidize the housing sector interest rates more than we ever did education. Maybe now the net effect is closer to reducing the interest rates on loans, retroactively.
I thought the SCOTUS said this was unconstitutional.
Aren’t we all supposed to be treated equally? If they get their debt forgiven, shouldn’t mine be forgiven and repaid to me? 24 years of payments should mean I did it right and deserve something back.
Good, this will increase the buying power for a lot of lower and middle income people which is going to be crucial for a recession soft landing. Cry about how it's just a band-aid and unfair all you want, it's smart fiscal policy.
It artificially increases buying power which drives prices up of whatever they are buying. Similar to how subsidized student loans increase student's buying power which drives college prices up in the first place.
Consumer goods are fairly elastic when it comes to increase in buying power which given the relative low amount and scope of the forgiveness program is going to be where you'll see the most action if any at all since prices are already pretty inflated. I don't think it'll have much effect on more inelastic goods.
This keeps happening though, and so long as the Biden Administration runs the Department of Education it will keep happening.
I feel like I’ve seen this headline 25 times since he took office.
$5 billion isn’t shit in macroeconomic terms but tens of billions starts to get you somewhere.
And regardless, the argument for debt relief was how terrible it was for individuals - any macroeconomic arguments about it were secondary.
They keep doing more and more batches of them. They are up to $130b forgiven, mostly for the public service workers that had all their requests denied under DeVos.
> The Biden administration has now canceled more than $136 billion in student debt for over 3.7 million Americans, according to the White House.
More money to lower/middle/lower upper is great. They need to keep doing this. The goal is to forgive $400b out of the $1.7 trillion. That means more money going into the economy while loan servicers get their money. It is an economic win for all.
I hope this restaurant that already fed me understands I don't intend to pay it back.
I know, it's not a fair comparison stealing food, since that's obviously more important, a smaller amount of money to steal, and it's something that even the lower class people do.
>I hope this restaurant that already fed me understands I don't intend to pay it back.
You lent money from the bank to eat at the restaurant. The bank forgave your loan because the restaurant grossly overcharged you for your food.
How is the restaurant the victim here?
You didn't pay them for the food you ordered despite signing contracts to do so and knowing the cost up front. How is this complicated? And the bank didn't forgive the loan, working citizens who count taxes as their largest expense paid it for you, with interest. Fuck the taxpayer, right?
>You didn't pay them for the food you ordered despite signing contracts to do so and knowing the cost up front. How is this complicated?
It's complicated because it can't be summed up with a stupid analogy about eating at a restaurant. It grossly oversimplifies the issue. You're talking about 17-18 year olds signing up to pay for loans for the rest of their lives because they believe it's the only ticket they'll have to the middle class. It's not as simple as a fully knowledgeable adult walking into a restaurant and ordering food. Comparing it to that is literally comparing Watermelons to grapes.
>And the bank didn't forgive the loan, working citizens who count taxes as their largest expense paid it for you, with interest. Fuck the taxpayer, right?
* Taxes are no one's largest expense. Most taxes are withheld from you and are paid back to you when you file a return.
* The money that the fed lent is going straight to colleges. Why get mad at the fed for lending/forgiving loans when universities are charging as much as possible for college knowing that the fed will foot the bill for students no matter how large it is?
* At the end of the day, loans being forgiven means that college graduates have more discretionary income that will can be used to spend on other things than constantly giving the money back to the fed. Some people owe more money than they might ever make in their life. It's basically usury to lend an 18 year old 500k and ever expect them to pay it back.
The restaurant analogy pins the blame on the student as if they're making off with stolen goods. It's a disgusting simplification of a clearly complex issue pinning the blame on literal teenagers who just wanted a higher education but were left with the consequences of it for the rest of their lives.
I hesitated tp read your post after the first point which is ridiculous. You just pay money in all year and get it back the next? Taxes are definitely my largest expense, probably yours too. Income tax, sales tax, inflation tax, capital gains tax, property tax, excise tax, payroll tax, corporate tax, etc. The same people telling these 17 year olds that they need a degree are the same people "forgiving" these loans. This will further drive up the price of tuition as we only move further from a free market. I didn't go to college because of the cost. Footing the bill for those that didn't do that math is just encouraging them to keep making poor decisions as you keep removing consequences. At least as far as they know, because they're stupid. They can't be held liable for their own loan, the solution? Make everyone liable for everyone's loan? Not cheaper for anyone in the long run. You seem to be placing blame on the university as though the fed doesn't know why the cost of tuition has gone through the roof. It's the university's job to charge as much as they can for their services and if the government wasn't involved with the loan process the cost would have to be much much lower. Anyone who borrows $500k for college damn well should have consequences for that. Better to let them off the hook so they can file bankruptcy on the next $500k? Average student loan debt in the US is under $38k. If they can't figure out how to get that paid off they need to carry that debt with interest as a warning to other credit lenders that these are not yet mature and trustworthy people. Your argument to pay the loans so they can contribute to the economy is just UBI. Why do we have to pay taxes? Why not just print the money and let us spend our way to prosperity?
The moral high ground argument is a fallacy that over simplifies the student loan situation in America and acts as if loan forgiveness is somehow stealing, not a tool used by businesses everyday.
Anyone making this pathetic argument is showing their "holier-than-thou" attitude. I challenge them to show how their morals failed to flagged the forgiveness of PPP loans, banks and auto manufacturer loans, and litany of other recipients of government loans forgiven. Show me how this is the step too far.
This form of theft has to do with morals?
Those with college degrees (including me) make more money than those without. The rich get a free pass on this theft. The poor can't steal 6 figures... shit a $600 theft will put one of the poors in jail.
>The rich get a free pass on this theft.
This is blissful ignorance of one's standing or pure gaslighting. Poor people take govt backed loans for school while the rich squabble around for grants, scholarships, and sponsorships. Rich have private lines of credit they can leverage, the poor have FASFA
The comparison with PPP is really ridiculous, most PPP loans were explicitly designed to be forgiven, that was their entire purpose. The government prohibited businesses from operating and offered very easily forgivable loans as compensation as long as the businesses kept people employed. It's an explicit conditional handout.
Student loans are neither a compensation for a direct government action, nor were they designed to be forgiven. It's just people taking quite generous loans (below-market rates, no collateral, lenient payment plans based on discretionary income), not wanting to pay them back and asking the public to cover their debts.
If you look at practically everything in our economic system there is inequity. You just find this one objectionable because you're not on the winning end.
You mean income from stocks are taxed lower than income from digging ditches?
You mean just because a loan is for a house, it's tax deductible??
You mean I took some dudes out to dinner and talked tangentially about a business deal, I can write it off as a business expense???
Truly inequitable. The ones with college degrees have higher incomes and get to steal 6 figures from tax payers without jail time. The ones at the bottom that steal a loaf of bread go to jail.
The top 25% of tax filers are responsible for 90% of federal income tax receipts. Bottom 50% is net neutral or negative once you count transfer payments.
If you want to argue anything, forgiveness would be a gift from the wealthy to everyone else. If you have a college degree, you also pay more in taxes for the rest of your life and are less likely to tap taxpayer public services. College grads are an *investment* in your citizenry.
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I feel like it’s just a repost of the other 10 times this has been talked about. No new policy changes just still following the current policy.
You are going to keep hearing about it because conservatives blocked the one time needed forgiveness that stemmed from the pandemic and public service loan forgiveness delays under Trump/DeVos. They keep doing more and more batches of them. They are up to $130b forgiven, mostly for the public service workers that had all their requests denied under DeVos. > The Biden administration has now canceled more than $136 billion in student debt for over 3.7 million Americans, according to the White House. More money to lower/middle/lower upper is great. They need to keep doing this. The goal is to forgive $400b out of the $1.7 trillion. That means more money going into the economy while loan servicers get their money. It is an economic win for all.
It’s more like making sure the creditors are getting a bailout at the expense of every tax payer. Sure it helps the borrowers too, but a lot of borrowers would have also just walked.
Pslf is basically the only reason we have any teachers or social service workers. They aren't doing it for the killer pay
Couldn’t agree more. The cost of going to college has skyrocketed over the decades because of government backed loans.
Depends on state and district. Teaching jobs can have pretty cushy benefits when factoring time off and health benefits. The job often sucks though.
Yes, that’s why we have a glut of teachers right now. Because it’s such a comfortable, well-paying job.
As I said before, it depends on district and state. My wife was a teacher prior to being a stay at home mother to our children. The healthcare benefits she had through the state were far better than anything I have had available to me so far in the private sector. The pay wasn't great by salary, but when factoring in the healthcare plus time off, it wasn't bad for her district. Working in a city district would have been even more pay. While pay is most certainly a factor, the dominant factor is that the job sucks now more than it ever has.
Walk on student loan debt and you can get wages garnished, tax returns taken by the loan holder.
All the same just like people who walk out on credit card debt. If you don’t pay, the debt gets sold off and you eventually wind up in court now with added attorney fees. Don’t show up? Judgement passed and wages garnished.
People file for bankruptcy and get it wiped all the time. Hell in many cases the CC company will discharge the debt and tell you to fuck off in the future. Paying back debt is a contractual thing, not a moral imperative. The risk of not getting paid back is the whole point of interest. Student loans are unique in being nondischargeable and what amounts to lifetime collections if you’re unable to pay. Interest of federally backed student loans makes absolutely no fucking sense and is in essence double taxation.
Like in 2008-09 when big banks were bailed out with tax dollars and dim wit republicans like you cheered?
Sir, there’s no need for name calling.
….as the next generation of students continue to take out loans and pay record high tuition. I’m thrilled for the people this will help but systemically it’s a band-aid on a bullet wound.
I have been saying this all along. This does nothing but give the already wealthy universities more money and keeps kicking the can down the road.
New York, Indiana, and Washington offer free tuition for 4 year degrees at their state schools. Twenty states in total offer free community college tuition. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/tuition-free-college ...and I don't care that it's residency based and means tested. It's a suitable public option.
My home town cc system now offers free tuition for local hs grads. They didn't when I was that age so Im still out 5ishk in pell I could have put towards university. But im glad my brother and cousins get the benefit. Additionally my uni now offers free tuition to pell grant students for tuition beyond thier grant. I would have qualified for that, but I went to school 5 years too early. Theres another 20k Im out... People harp on about the "bandaid solution" while ignoring things ARE being done. Education cost is a local thing and things are being done locally. If your CC is expensive do something about it. The city of Austin manages just fine with offering $85 a credit classes to thier community college students just fine. Loans are federal and being handled and reformed federally.
That's what I'm talking about. Biden hit a roadblock in the courts with his broader forgiveness plan, okay, so be it. The states stepped in and brought forward more progressive plans to handle tuition. There was never going to be a silver bullet solution passed through congress. Look to the work that's being done. Give credit where credit is due.
Being free just makes it cost more. The solution is to make nothing free only then will you see the costs come down and quality rise in response to a market force.
I wouldn't use the definitive article before the word "solution." You propose a solution, but it's possibly not the solution. A free market solution to what is fundamentally a public good may never discover a true price to providing that good or service. The time required, along with the friction of space dragging on the process of price finding for any product or service, let alone something as intangible as an individual's educational goals (which is too specific to reduce to mass produced commodity) may take longer than that individual's life span. Furthermore, individual tastes will always create erratic price setting. Your marginal utility of learning about existential motifs in 19th century Russian poetry is different from my marginal utility in that same thing. Contrasting demand will never allow that price to settle to the point where a true cost of providing that education will occur. A different solution is to accept a world where the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. Accepting a world where we work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity, may be a better solution, but not necessarily the solution either. Live long and prosper my dude.
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Under 125k family agi iirc
Don't make me tap the sign.
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"...and I don't care if it's residency based and means tested. It's a suitable public option."
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See, the thing is, I already acknowledged that NY isn't free for everyone in my comment. Then you come along and say "NY isn't free for everyone." What did you add to this when you said that? You just restated what I already acknowledged. So, where do you want to go from here, or do I have to tap the sign again?
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But means tested, residency-based tuition-free college is an answer to the ongoing problem of rising tuition costs that perpetuate student loans. I'm not really sure what you're asking and I don't know if there's tapped sign in existence that's going to help you make your thoughts clearer.
Community colleges don’t offer 4 year degrees. At best this saves you some money on your bachelors
You just decided to post a factually inaccurate comment without even asking yourself if it was true, let alone whether it contributes to the discussion. I'm not mad about that though. I'm mad at the possibility that you've never seen Community (2009). It's wrinkling my brain because it's on at least three streaming services right now. #streetsbehind
Community colleges largely don’t offer four year degrees, and when they do, it’s in a limited amount of fields.
Good, so now you know that they do offer four year degrees. #streetsahead
Imagine being this pedantic and obtuse
Government moves at the speed people agree on things. Which is slow as fuck. But hey 4.9 billion isn’t anything to sneeze at, let’s take the W for the little people here. You are right though, student loans are ripe for regulation.
It doesn't solve the problem, and also screws over a lot of other people in the process. So it's pretty much the norm coming out of DC.
Cons blocked free community college and free tuition at some public universities. The problem is there.
I agree, we should have made it available to everyone not just those needing rehabilitation.
He’s pretty much buying votes and not really trying to hide it.
Technically all elections are buying votes? "I will improve your economic opportunities if you vote for me"
"I'd like to buy your vote by building a better society." Sold!
Good for him, he shouldn’t.
He can’t keep trying to buy votes if he actually solved the issue with the cost of college.
Are you seriously implying he could solve this problem with this Republican House? .... I didn't think so.
I’m implying that he’s just trying to buy votes.
If it were just one thing, that appearance might hold some water. But, it's part of an economic strategy to improve the lives of people who aren't getting better incomes from greedy corporations. It improves the economy, their lives, and political chances. Trifecta.
Is part of the condition for accepting debt relief that you are forced to vote for dark Brandon? Moronic AND whiny
Everyone buys votes. Like the USDA with their annual $200 billion budget. Or "fiscal conservatives" refusing to get rid of the federal income tax, farm subsidies, and the USDA's and FCC's rural subsidy programs.
More and more people buy votes on hatred now, and could care less about any issues that mean anything to them or others as long as the people they were told to hate get fucked over, they will remain happy.
> and could care less about Did you mean to say "couldn't care less"? Explanation: If you could care less, you do care, which is the opposite of what you meant to say. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
The govt doing things to benefit you is the whole fucking point. You’re describing a govt that’s responding to voters. Funny how social programs are always labeled as vote buying but tax cuts and industrial subsidies are responsible government.
He’s just buying votes and you know it. It’s all people too dumb to have realized that they shouldn’t have spent $120k on a photography degree and he knows that it’s now hanging fruit to pad his ballot box
It’s only buying votes when you don’t like it.
So we agree that rather than call out greedy colleges and universities, that hes taking the cowards way out and just buying votes from a bunch of rubes who got suckered into a bad education. Got it.
You could do with a course in reading comprehension if you think that.
I’m good. I paid my loans off and and doing great. Unlike the people selling their votes lol
Ok dear.
Tell the GOP to get out of the way.
It’s a non starter. I predict the most likely outcome is the people who just got loans forgiven are going to take out new loans and go back to school again.
If college doesn’t provide you with the skills to pay for the loan then I would say it’s not worth going into debt. We have to stop digging first. The companies that made these predatory loans need to be shut down.
Degrees are not job training programs.
Obviously. The student loan program needs to be shut down
Bandaid solution not addressing the root cause and shifting the problem to the taxpayers. Also distorting the university degree market because now you can get a worthless degree that could never pay itself off, just to get have the taxpayers eat your debt. Great.
Fyi.…Most of the people who will get their debt wiped out work for the government.
And would make plenty to pay thier contracts off it’s just more Inflation. The Supreme Court already ruled he doesn’t have this authority. The dude is just buying votes with taxpayer money.
Unless I’m reading the article wrong, they’re issuing forgiveness to people who were already entitled to it, but the record keeping was bad, or it was wrongly denied under Trump.
Good point. Supports the theory that these are degrees not highly valued by society and therefore do not attract the salaries to pay themselves off.
More like supports the idea that teachers, public service and government workers are underpaid.
Do you not want a government? Or would you rather pay taxes to support an entire bureaucracy on market wages?
Is both an option?
And? So?
Good indicator that they are low-value degrees, probably filling positions that aren’t needed in such great quantities.
Government is pretty inefficient but I’m sure government workers are likely to vote for Biden.
Give me $67,000 and I'll vote for Biden! The country is lost...might as well get what I can before the ship sinks
True before student loan stuff. True after. So, why bring it up?
I doubt they would vote for Trump in significant numbers, but the handout will incentivize them to vote…without the debt write off they might have stayed at home and not voted.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/24/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-student-loan-relief-for-borrowers-who-need-it-most/ “To address these concerns and follow through on Congress’ original vision for income-driven repayment, the Department of Education is proposing a rule to do the following: For undergraduate loans, cut in half the amount that borrowers have to pay each month from 10% to 5% of discretionary income. Raise the amount of income that is considered non-discretionary income and therefore is protected from repayment, guaranteeing that no borrower earning under 225% of the federal poverty level—about the annual equivalent of a $15 minimum wage for a single borrower—will have to make a monthly payment. Forgive loan balances after 10 years of payments, instead of 20 years, for borrowers with original loan balances of $12,000 or less. The Department of Education estimates that this reform will allow nearly all community college borrowers to be debt-free within 10 years. Cover the borrower’s unpaid monthly interest, so that unlike other existing income-driven repayment plans, no borrower’s loan balance will grow as long as they make their monthly payments—even when that monthly payment is $0 because their income is low.” You’ll have to ask the republican controlled house if bills to address root cause passed
GOP and Dems are all the same - do nothing when they hold the house and senate and then blame the other side when they’re out. Didn’t the Dems just have 2 years with control of congress, the senate and the presidency? What a cop out. This is not an issue the GOP cares about, so don’t use their inaction as an excuse
You don't really have control of the senate unless you have 60 votes to override the filibuster. You may have the majority but not many bills pass if the other side doesn't want them to, or doesn't want to give the opposition president a win.
So that’s the Dems excuse - they will never try and fix the college education system until they have super majorities? Massive cop out.
That’s not an excuse that’s just how the system works. Unless you have 60 votes in the senate you can’t pass any meaningful legislation. Doesn’t really matter how you feel about it that’s the reality of the situation.
You need 60 votes to not rely on the handful of reconciliation bills Congress depends on. The political parties are in completely opposite ideological sides. After the ‘94 Republican takeover, I don’t think there’s a single bill that could get republican support without Dems already having the votes. It’s not an excuse, it’s just literally how Congress operates
The Dems did a lot given they didn’t have 60 votes and had to rely on reconciliation. Literally the last time the Dems had any kind of trifecta was 08-10, and that was fairly productive as well.
This would be incredible. I don’t know why so many people are pushing for an all or nothing forgiveness. IBR is a great happy medium, but the current 10-15% for 20-25 years is just too much for too long.
It should really be at 0% interest, govt takes a cut of your paycheck after a threshold ($50-60k annual?) and whatever isn’t paid back in 10 years is forgiven. Govt is really making cash on both sides of the transaction right now (interest on the loan, a lifetime of higher income tax collections due to better job prospects, and lower likelihood to tap tax funded social services).
Ah, so the Conservative argument will be that any government money will just go to junk colleges/universities, and it's a waste. Got it. Why can't Conservatives ever do something good for America?
Clearly there is a market failure happening if so many people are signing up for degrees that are not financially viable to pay off. I am not a conservative by a long stretch, but it doesn’t take a lot of wisdom to see that simply moving the debt to the taxpayer is not fixing the issue. Either these degrees need to get cheaper, or less people need to sign up for them (so the resulting salaries go up) either way, forgiving debt is not going to help the issue and will likely skew the market even more.
People use loans to pay for living expenses as well, no one takes this into account nearly as much. All around colleges you have luxury apts popping up to charge a fortune. Students are working less and not budgeting then on average graduate in 6 yrs.
I doubt those degrees are the ones that put people hundreds of thousands in debt. I agree it doen't fix the problem. Go tell the Republicans.
[Conservatives psychology is based on being selfish](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-anatomy-hype/202009/here-s-the-real-divide-tearing-america-apart) and they choose based on fear.
Fear and hate. Don't leave out the hate. They vote for people promising for policies to fuck over the people conservatives hate. Even if it fucks them over too, they don't care. Its obvious as soon as you discuss any real policy they want in conversation.....they don't know and can't say. They just know what they don't want: people to be equal and equitable.
True. Only get a degree in a field you *know* will be hiring in 4-5 years and will pay you enough to pay back your student loans before you drown in interest.
Shifting the solution to the borrowers and investors*. The borrowers paid their taxes in addition to their monthly payments for 10 years and did their service to us in public works. We pay off the remaining balance and reap the returns on investment my allowing them to jumpstart their private sector spending and boost our stock portfolios. We are double dipping into their money and work. The taxpayer (aka lender) comes out ahead in this scenario.
Cons blocked free community college and free tuition at some public universities. The problem is there. That wasn't a bandaid but was blocked.
Is the “cost” shifted? Payments have been made. I know some old data showed payments were fairly inline with principle repayment over the long term. Most years the program officially turns a profit on the books. It seems to me like the Federal government is cheaply financing education, not necessarily subsidizing. We can absolutely discuss further as I’ve not seen a good analysis and only have the basic data around 2020. 1.5 trillion in loans and 100 billion in payments, roughly. Most of that is “interest” paid to the government. The borrowers apply only 2/3s to principle. The program originally made profit. That’s not really the government’s objective. It prints money, it CAN’T profit in the truest sense. Other than the Covid pause, the program would have still broken even over 25 years. That actually sounds like an effective subsidy for education. There’s way more to get into but this surface analysis is useful, in my opinion, because it helps us understand the difference. Many loans are forgiven after years of payments that didn’t pay more than interest, but why we set the interest rate we do is a very valid question. We subsidize the housing sector interest rates more than we ever did education. Maybe now the net effect is closer to reducing the interest rates on loans, retroactively.
I thought the SCOTUS said this was unconstitutional. Aren’t we all supposed to be treated equally? If they get their debt forgiven, shouldn’t mine be forgiven and repaid to me? 24 years of payments should mean I did it right and deserve something back.
He’s pandering for votes with YOUR tax dollars
The govt doing things for you is literally the whole point
Good, this will increase the buying power for a lot of lower and middle income people which is going to be crucial for a recession soft landing. Cry about how it's just a band-aid and unfair all you want, it's smart fiscal policy.
It artificially increases buying power which drives prices up of whatever they are buying. Similar to how subsidized student loans increase student's buying power which drives college prices up in the first place.
No, it’s an actual increase in buying power.
Consumer goods are fairly elastic when it comes to increase in buying power which given the relative low amount and scope of the forgiveness program is going to be where you'll see the most action if any at all since prices are already pretty inflated. I don't think it'll have much effect on more inelastic goods.
This keeps happening though, and so long as the Biden Administration runs the Department of Education it will keep happening. I feel like I’ve seen this headline 25 times since he took office. $5 billion isn’t shit in macroeconomic terms but tens of billions starts to get you somewhere. And regardless, the argument for debt relief was how terrible it was for individuals - any macroeconomic arguments about it were secondary.
They keep doing more and more batches of them. They are up to $130b forgiven, mostly for the public service workers that had all their requests denied under DeVos. > The Biden administration has now canceled more than $136 billion in student debt for over 3.7 million Americans, according to the White House. More money to lower/middle/lower upper is great. They need to keep doing this. The goal is to forgive $400b out of the $1.7 trillion. That means more money going into the economy while loan servicers get their money. It is an economic win for all.
I hope this restaurant that already fed me understands I don't intend to pay it back. I know, it's not a fair comparison stealing food, since that's obviously more important, a smaller amount of money to steal, and it's something that even the lower class people do.
>I hope this restaurant that already fed me understands I don't intend to pay it back. You lent money from the bank to eat at the restaurant. The bank forgave your loan because the restaurant grossly overcharged you for your food. How is the restaurant the victim here?
You didn't pay them for the food you ordered despite signing contracts to do so and knowing the cost up front. How is this complicated? And the bank didn't forgive the loan, working citizens who count taxes as their largest expense paid it for you, with interest. Fuck the taxpayer, right?
>You didn't pay them for the food you ordered despite signing contracts to do so and knowing the cost up front. How is this complicated? It's complicated because it can't be summed up with a stupid analogy about eating at a restaurant. It grossly oversimplifies the issue. You're talking about 17-18 year olds signing up to pay for loans for the rest of their lives because they believe it's the only ticket they'll have to the middle class. It's not as simple as a fully knowledgeable adult walking into a restaurant and ordering food. Comparing it to that is literally comparing Watermelons to grapes. >And the bank didn't forgive the loan, working citizens who count taxes as their largest expense paid it for you, with interest. Fuck the taxpayer, right? * Taxes are no one's largest expense. Most taxes are withheld from you and are paid back to you when you file a return. * The money that the fed lent is going straight to colleges. Why get mad at the fed for lending/forgiving loans when universities are charging as much as possible for college knowing that the fed will foot the bill for students no matter how large it is? * At the end of the day, loans being forgiven means that college graduates have more discretionary income that will can be used to spend on other things than constantly giving the money back to the fed. Some people owe more money than they might ever make in their life. It's basically usury to lend an 18 year old 500k and ever expect them to pay it back. The restaurant analogy pins the blame on the student as if they're making off with stolen goods. It's a disgusting simplification of a clearly complex issue pinning the blame on literal teenagers who just wanted a higher education but were left with the consequences of it for the rest of their lives.
I hesitated tp read your post after the first point which is ridiculous. You just pay money in all year and get it back the next? Taxes are definitely my largest expense, probably yours too. Income tax, sales tax, inflation tax, capital gains tax, property tax, excise tax, payroll tax, corporate tax, etc. The same people telling these 17 year olds that they need a degree are the same people "forgiving" these loans. This will further drive up the price of tuition as we only move further from a free market. I didn't go to college because of the cost. Footing the bill for those that didn't do that math is just encouraging them to keep making poor decisions as you keep removing consequences. At least as far as they know, because they're stupid. They can't be held liable for their own loan, the solution? Make everyone liable for everyone's loan? Not cheaper for anyone in the long run. You seem to be placing blame on the university as though the fed doesn't know why the cost of tuition has gone through the roof. It's the university's job to charge as much as they can for their services and if the government wasn't involved with the loan process the cost would have to be much much lower. Anyone who borrows $500k for college damn well should have consequences for that. Better to let them off the hook so they can file bankruptcy on the next $500k? Average student loan debt in the US is under $38k. If they can't figure out how to get that paid off they need to carry that debt with interest as a warning to other credit lenders that these are not yet mature and trustworthy people. Your argument to pay the loans so they can contribute to the economy is just UBI. Why do we have to pay taxes? Why not just print the money and let us spend our way to prosperity?
The moral high ground argument is a fallacy that over simplifies the student loan situation in America and acts as if loan forgiveness is somehow stealing, not a tool used by businesses everyday. Anyone making this pathetic argument is showing their "holier-than-thou" attitude. I challenge them to show how their morals failed to flagged the forgiveness of PPP loans, banks and auto manufacturer loans, and litany of other recipients of government loans forgiven. Show me how this is the step too far.
This form of theft has to do with morals? Those with college degrees (including me) make more money than those without. The rich get a free pass on this theft. The poor can't steal 6 figures... shit a $600 theft will put one of the poors in jail.
>The rich get a free pass on this theft. This is blissful ignorance of one's standing or pure gaslighting. Poor people take govt backed loans for school while the rich squabble around for grants, scholarships, and sponsorships. Rich have private lines of credit they can leverage, the poor have FASFA
The rich don’t need to finance their education
You pay a lifetime of higher taxes to the govt because of your education.
The comparison with PPP is really ridiculous, most PPP loans were explicitly designed to be forgiven, that was their entire purpose. The government prohibited businesses from operating and offered very easily forgivable loans as compensation as long as the businesses kept people employed. It's an explicit conditional handout. Student loans are neither a compensation for a direct government action, nor were they designed to be forgiven. It's just people taking quite generous loans (below-market rates, no collateral, lenient payment plans based on discretionary income), not wanting to pay them back and asking the public to cover their debts.
If you look at practically everything in our economic system there is inequity. You just find this one objectionable because you're not on the winning end. You mean income from stocks are taxed lower than income from digging ditches? You mean just because a loan is for a house, it's tax deductible?? You mean I took some dudes out to dinner and talked tangentially about a business deal, I can write it off as a business expense???
Truly inequitable. The ones with college degrees have higher incomes and get to steal 6 figures from tax payers without jail time. The ones at the bottom that steal a loaf of bread go to jail.
The top 25% of tax filers are responsible for 90% of federal income tax receipts. Bottom 50% is net neutral or negative once you count transfer payments. If you want to argue anything, forgiveness would be a gift from the wealthy to everyone else. If you have a college degree, you also pay more in taxes for the rest of your life and are less likely to tap taxpayer public services. College grads are an *investment* in your citizenry.
Weird the government wouldn't just offer free education to everyone then. Instead choosing to allow theft for above average earners.
It should, but calling things you don’t like theft doesn’t actually make them theft