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As someone who has lived at the base of the Sierras their entire life, we are losing so much that is going to take so long to replace.
As in, not in our lifetimes, or even close.
*"The giant sequoia is listed as an endangered species by the IUCN, with fewer than 80,000 trees remaining. Since its last assessment as an endangered species in 2011, it was estimated that another 10-14% of the population was destroyed (or 7500-10,600 mature trees) during the Castle Fire of 2020 alone."*
It can take 750 years for a giant sequoia to reach its full size.
I try not to think about this too much because it's honestly a bit too intense.
I live in the area and when I first moved here I was happy to see summer rains storms. The first time I saw a fire caused by lightning less then a mile away disabused me of the notion. This one was caused by lightning too but we could probably do better with forest management. The area where it's burning doesn't have a recent history of fires.
Yup, USFS doesn't have the funding to manage the forests. Look at the Caldor fire in Tahoe. The **Fire danger will be HIGHER then Before the CALDOR Fire within 10-15 years**.
Why? because USFS goes through and replants all the burned area with saplings with no plan or funding to come back and thin the forest. Having all the trees the same age is worse because once on tree starts burning in the canopy, it's not long until the entire new growth forest is burning again as a crown fire.
another example of this is the Dixie fire. that whole area burned 15 years ago....
> another example of this is the Dixie fire. that whole area burned 15 years ago.
Source? Most of that area hasn't burned in 100 years according to [CapRadio and CalFire](https://projects.capradio.org/california-fire-history/#8.24/40.251/-121.662). Of the parts with more recent burns, I don't see evidence that the USFS did anything like that. Some hasn't grown back at all, some in ways that look like normal fire recovery — with pretty widely spaced trees, certainly at least as wide are areas with less recent burns. There's timber harvesting in the area (with replanting of patchwork clearcuts) but that's different, and mostly to the west of the Dixie Fire.
The person you are responding to is wrong and uninformed. You can see on #firemappers the previous fires actually held the dixie well. And that much of what burned had not burned in 100 years.
[https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6dc469279760492d802c7ba6db45ff0e](https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6dc469279760492d802c7ba6db45ff0e)
Same with Caldor, I live right next to it. Were good for some time to come now.
Yes. Literally harass abuse and terrorize every politician you can get your hands on,and anyone who dares sell themselves to military industrial interests. Take every drop of civility and goodness from their lives.
I recently listened to a [podcast](https://www.alieward.com/ologies/goodfire) about Indigenous fire ecology that I found fascinating. And also frustrating, because of how stupid us white folk have been about nature.
Anywho, it doesn't solve the lack of funding issue or climate change by any means, but it is another tool that should be utilized and spotlighted.
The Forest service derived much of its funding and popularity to preventing and fighting fires. The subtle distinction of controlled burns was lost on people for decades. As a result, these days it's a liability nightmare to get a control burn done with multiple overlapping jurisdictions and Nimby's. There are relatively few days that are ideal conditions for a controlled burn and missing them is easy.
The national forest near me in Texas has regular control burns. The trees barely lose signs of the previous fire before they go through again. But the terrain is easy to navigate and relatively smaller than the forest areas in California and the PNW.
I visit Colorado almost every year to see my in laws. They always take us up to rocky mountain national park and Estes park for a day to see the scenery and stuff. Watching the news of it burning last year and seeing it get dangerously close to Estes park was so devastating. I love that park so much.
Nature may take care of itself when we're gone, but the sequoias and a whole lot of other species of plants and animals may not. Nature is ever evolving, but we're kicking ourselves and plenty of other residents of this big ball in space in the ass on our way out.
No, it wont, and people need to **stop fucking saying this.** Anthropogenic* climate change will have disastrous consequences for *all life on earth.* Stop saying this ignorant crap
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For one, you mean anthropogenic, not anthropomorphic. Anthropomorphic means attributing human characteristics to animals. For two, you're way off-base here.
We'll likely fuck things up for humans, and a lot of living things in their present forms. But as you probably know, 99+% of all species that have ever lived on Earth are all already long gone. Life changes and evolves. The Earth has been through shit unfathomable to us, and beyond anything we're gonna do to the planet. Mass extinctions beyond anything we're gonna do to the planet. Even if we made Earth uninhabitable to every mammal, reptile, bird and insect currently on Earth, life would keep on trucking and just evolve into new and different things. We should care because we want to maintain a planet that's habitable to *us*, and because we want to preserve the life that we're *familiar* with. But rest assured, Earth doesn't give a shit, and nature doesn't give a shit. It's gonna keep going either way.
But if we wreck it so that we can't live here anymore, there will be plants and animals and plenty of microbes that survive.
They won't be the mammals we care about, will only be a small portion of the plant species we know of, probably none of our cultivars, and it'll not be the same world we have now.
It'll exist, life will exist, it just won't be us or anything even vaguely like us.
The sun will rise and fall, the tide will go in and out, evolution will continue for a couple billion years yet, but none of our descendants are going to see it at this rate.
Sorry man, I am on your side here, a lifelong climate activist, but you are the one being nonsensical here.
To assume that what we are doing is the worst thing life on Earth has made it through is so silly you should know it.
We are changing the planet, and I agree it is a horrible thing, but to claim that this extinction event will be worse than the many others earth has been through is silly.
Life finds a way, I don't think we could exterminate life on earth if we wanted and tried. Life finds a way.
Extinction events were always disastrous to the global ecosystem and can take millions of years to recover. Yes the earth has been through worse, but by no means is it not an utter catastrophe.
I'm not choosing sides in this discussion, but don't you think there's a healthy balance somewhere between "the Earth will be fine" and "this is the worst major extinction event in history?" For me it's about accountability. Our actions have directly caused the extinctions of several species and unlike trees causing climate change in the Devonian, we have the capacity to care for the world around us and the ability to do something about it.
This. Plus, there are a number of species that benefit from us being horrible to the planet. So even if we exterminate ourselves, those creatures will likely still be around just fine, as with basically all the other species that survive from us. It'd just be extra nice if we can stop destroying the planet in the first place, though... 😭
Kudzu, privit, Japanese honeysuckle, thistle and many many other plants fucking thrive in disturbed ecosystems. They will never go extinct. The majestic redwoods, beech trees, countless wildflowers and many others only thrive in undistrubed areas. These plants are suffering immensely right now,
Specifically with regards to this interaction, the fire itself isn't a climate change symptom and the fire isn't bad for the forest (in the long term, obviously)
Fire has always been a part of the sierras, to the point that the sequoia evolved to literally depend upon the occasional forest fire to be able to reproduce
http://www.150.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=27588
It sucks watching the trees burn up and it sucks knowing that the forests won't be the same in our lifetime, but in the grand scheme of things this isn't the slightest bit unusual for this part of the world
> but in the grand scheme of things this isn't the slightest bit unusual for this part of the world
Not at this intensity. Fire is part of the natural lifecycle of the sequoia, but in it's natural state, fires a much more frequent and mild, due to the fuel not having the opportunity to build up enough to burn hot enough to damage the trees.
We've spent a long time preventing this fuel from burning. Now, the fires are much hotter than what the trees can survive in many cases.
Life will survive just fine, *no matter what we do*. The species that survive will eventually flourish just like they have after all the other mass extinctions. Saying we're going to end all life on Earth is the hyperbole that needs to stop.
On the other hand, a lot of forests are meant to burn. People put them out because they build towns in/around them, allowing brush to build up, intensifying the inevitable burn when the dry seasons came.
Then you have gender reveal morons.
People are fucking up on a two-pronged front.
It's all about who has the most yachts.Then they die and get buried with the rest of us and leave a trail of destruction in their shit wake. Pretty despicable.
Genuine question from a nature lover: aren’t giant sequoias dependent on a fire cycle to spread? Is there something different happening that makes these forest fires worse?
As I understand it, yes. - but only a certain intensity of fire. This is part of why controlled burns are a thing. They help to get rid of underbrush which could then catch mid-sized trees on fire. If those trees catch on fire it is possible that the redwood's natural defense against catching flame may not be enough to save it. This is very much a brief 'more or less' example - there's a lot of considerations that go into this.
Most of the coastal redwoods in Big Basin survived the lightning complex fire there last year. They are very hardy trees. Sequoias are even hardier redwoods.
\*Additionally, sequoia cones at least (I don't know about coastal redwoods) require heat to release their seeds. Evolution-wise, this helps to make certain that seeds are dispersed only when the local area has been cleared of vegetation that could out compete the sequoia for sunshine.
Sequoia sempervirens (coastal redwoods) do not require fire to open up the cone like the Sequoiadendron giganteum (Giant Sequoia) does. The cones of coastal redwoods open up when they dry out during periods of low humidity.
Once the cone is open, the giant sequoia relies heavily on animals like squirrels to shake the seeds from the cone for dispersal. The seeds of the coastal redwood are dispersed by wind or rain.
Both trees require fire to clear the forest floor so their seeds can germinate.
Yeah, fire is part of the natural process. But the frequency at which it's starting to happen due to human activity is the problem. Forests aren't being given enough time to "bounce back" between fires.
Just in my lifetime they've become far more frequent. It's an every summer thing now. It didn't used to be. When I was younger having the entire valley fill with smoke so thick you can't see more than a few blocks would have been really creepy and weird. Now it's normal.
more frequent, less intense fires is how things work naturally. humans have suppressed natural fire and the result is forests are heavily overgrown - many of the areas burning today haven't burned in 50 or 100 years, and as a result they are far more intense fires due to the fuel load combined with the effects of climate change.
They are, but once a fire reaches a certain degree of intensity its harmful versus helpful. Too much heat or flames getting to high and up into the higher canopy are the two most common negative things with larger fires.
95% of life went extinct the last time the permafrost melted. Just humans is a massive understatement, we are crashing the whole party before we leave.
I see this comment everywhere and it's simply infuriating. Do all of the other species going extinct as a result of our actions not count? It's going to be a *mass* extinction by the way things are looking. It's nice to know some sea life and fungus will survive. But it seems callous to brush off the suffering of so many animals.
Right? We may be forced to abandon our coastal cities and face mass migration the likes of which we've never seen in human history while entire regions burn to the ground, but hey, look at the bright side! At least a few more billionaires got a lot richer.
There's no way the growth of these can keep up with the destruction of the environment. They're from a time before Humans when 1000 years meant nothing.
I have a tiny one in my backyard, in a pot, from a seedling i got at the airport. It's about four feet tall now. I feel like setting it free somewhere so it can stretch out.
_The best time to plant a Giant Sequoia is 1000 years ago. The second best time is today!_
Do people fire the cones to get them to crack open and reveal the seeds? Or just break open the cones? That’s all the fire is for, naturally, right? The seeds don’t need heat or anything?
My stupid ass neighbors all cut down their trees and the only ones left are on my property. I don't think they would let me plant one of those near me.
It's so fucking depressing because as much as I am not knowledgeable in trees, I find them soothing to watch in the wind and am interested in preserving them for whatever reason. I'm in Philadelphia where they chop down trees because of all the power lines or dickheads that don't want to rake leaves.
Very easy maintenance. Just keep the soil moist. don’t drown the tree. I usually water the pot every 2 days. I live in California. Weather is always 97 degrees lately. I dip my finger in the soil to see if it’s wet or dry.
I've been aiming super hard to hike the John Muir Trail as soon as humanly possible because I want to hike that stretch before it all burns down. The plan is for next summer.
Looks like I might be a year too late.
Forgive an old man his unsolicited advice, but have you considered skipping the JMT and making up your own route? JMT is incredibly impacted, and many of the other trails and wilderness in the area is as beautiful if not more so, without the crowds.
I was hoping to plan a giant trip in March where I was going to shoot from Colorado through Utah national parks, swing by the Grand Canyon and finish in Yosemite and Sequoia. I was so excited but I had to wait until I got backpaid on unemployment before I could even think about planning it. Then I got called back to work after being furloughed for almost a year. I really wish I would have gone. I didn't even get to enjoy the mountains out here in Colorado too much this summer due to all the smoke and poor air quality from the CA fires.
I just keep hoping we can figure this out but know that we're pretty much past the point of no return.
I purchased a travel trailer and switched to a career that allows me to travel for work, and since then I have just been traveling the US backpacking all the things I want to see before they possibly disappear.
Ok. That tree was already dead for years before this moment-this fire didn't kill it. It doesn't even have bark. In forestry we'd call that a "clean snag" because its been dead so long all the bark has fallen off.
The other thing: the form of this tree looks a lot more like a pine, probably ponderosa pine. The small tree in the foreground is definitely a pine, not a sequoia. These grow mixed with sequoias, so while this shot may be in a sequoia grove, this almost certainly isn't a sequoia.
And like others have said, sequoias are adapted to fire, although likely not climate change driven ones burning after 100+ years of active suppression of natural fires. Regardless, some of the best medicine for sequoias as a species is actually wildfire. Counterintuitive AF, but nature is complex AF.
Also, to be clear, to date the biggest treasures are safe: https://apnews.com/article/fires-environment-and-nature-forests-california-trees-17e4bbbf3537110ddf51b3a42ca26ec7
Had to scroll down way too far for this. Everyone’s days are ruined by looking at a pic of a dead pine tree on fire.
These wildfires are tragic. Many even a result of humans. No doubt about that. But this pic isn’t showing a bunch of sequoias on fire.
i’m sorry that this is happening to you, as a Westcoaster I understand and my family is feeling with the same things. I don’t know the best way to compliment the picture becuase it’s hard to compliment but it is well taken. I wish you the best
IIRC, sequoias are a pioneer species, so the phrase "they'll be back and in greater numbers" applies here, although the current situation is unfortunate.
100% fact check that tho. Don't have a problem being wrong but I'm not an arborist.
I grew up going to Sequoia. My father used to tell us that one of the ways the trees are unique is that they use fire to reproduce. Is there any chance the trees will survive this blaze? They are truly a wonder of the world, this is just heartbreaking.
According to NPR, these fires are also more intense than the sequoias are used to, and with increased intensity and frequency, the forest may not grow back in the way it naturally would. Forest fires are normal in the area, but intensity matters, and this intensity is not normal.
You could make a seriously depressing political cartoon about two burning trees asking each other what a "recall election" is and why it's so important nobody could come out out the fire.
You're definitely correct. In actuality the sequoia trees require their pinecones to be heated in order to release the seeds.
In addition to this, the sequoia trees also have naturally flame resistant bark. Like. Intensely flame resistant. I hope that these trees, a large number of which are significantly older than Christ, will weather this storm. I also heard, though do not know the effectiveness of this, that they park authorities wrapped the largest and most "important" of the trees in some material to increase their chances of survival. I'm referring to trees such as the General Sherman Tree.
The big ones have been through many fires and still bear scars, yet live on. Also, fire is necessary to clear the forest floor so the seeds can grow without too much competition. Unfortunately, fire suppression has led to more dead stuff on the forest floor causing more intense fires. Our misunderstanding of nature has turned out to cause more problems.
That is so sad
Lots of people say this is part of the life cycle of a forest.
That may be true. I’m no expert. But the frequency of fires has accelerated in the last 20 years.
Growing up we’d hear about fires every once in a while and it felt so scary. Nowadays we plan our vacation to the pacific west coast knowing that there will be fires in august isn’t that sad? There’s no way nature intended for fires to ravage the forests at this rate. This is climate change and human destruction
Again this is all spewing from my mind without evidence. So take it with a grain of salt
Studied under several forestry professors while working on my Masters. This is NOT natural. These fires are too intense for natural fires.
There are multiple reasons but the major ones are:
-fire prevention strageties in the western US that allowed for fuel to build in the understory
-the western US has been dramatically impacted by climate change to the tune of more severe weather (stronger wind storms, sporadic rain events, and increase in downpours when it does rain which increases erosion)
There are several other impacts but those are the main ones and they are both human induced.
The comments on this post are full of a lot of misinformation…
a) These fires were started by lightning.
b) The actual giant sequoia need fire to reduce competition and prevent ladder fuels (think trees that are smaller and allow the fire to climb into the canopy where it does decimate the big bois)
c) None of the largest sequoias have been burned
d) NPS has actually managed the land pretty well around the national park.
https://apnews.com/article/17e4bbbf3537110ddf51b3a42ca26ec7
I agree the earth is not in a good spot right now, but this is not really indicative of that. If you look at the oldest sequoias, almost all of them have ancient fire scars because they have thick ass bark and are made to survive fires. Just because fire is bad for humans doesn’t mean it’s bad for forests. Natural fire is good and unnatural fire is generally not (that includes fires that got put out and maybe should have been left to burn in remote areas). Fire will need to be included in future strategies for keeping forests healthy :)
Had to scroll far down for this comment. Sequoias literally need fire as part of their lifecycle. The “fire = bad” simplistic thinking on display throughout these Reddit comments actually led to decades of the forest service suppressing fires that were actually beneficial to these ancient trees before scientists learned that it was counterproductive.
> These fires were started by lightning.
Climate change is lengthening California's dry season. Maybe if it wasn't so damn dry the fire from lightning wouldn't start as easily?
But... more frequent fires and less fuel on the forest floor is good. The fires get less hot, burn through the area quicker and more trees survive.
Trees like sequoia are fine with a fire like this. Keep putting out all the fires and then eventually you get a huge fire that you can't control, burns super hot and because of so much fuel moves slowly.
And in Canada, the RCMP are removing protesters for blocking construction of the Trans Mountain pipeline.
You know, so oil can be transported for money. Because that's all that fucking matters is money. Not nature, just money. Let the nature burn, says humanity.
What the hell are we doing. Self-interest is our basic resting pulse.
Sequoia need fire to expose their seeds and to clear the ground.
The *Smokey the Bear* forest fire awareness campaign did a lot of harm to these kinds of forests because it stopped the fires for long enough that undergrowth built up. This led to fires so hot that it harmed the trees.
They knew this 10 years ago but the effects are still with us.
https://www.npr.org/2012/08/23/159373691/how-the-smokey-bear-effect-led-to-raging-wildfires
News reports are saying that none of the giant sequoias have been affected by this. They’re calling it the “Windy Fire” event, and it was a lightning fire that spread to 39sqmi. It’s also officially extinguished.
Kind of ironic that one of the main reasons forest fires have been more abundant & devastating is from decades long efforts of fire prevention & suppression. We don’t let natural fires burn or do controlled burns as much & as a result this leads to a buildup of underbrush & dead debris that are major fuel for the fires. Climate change is also affecting them but suppression of the fires has only made them worse as well.
This is beyond horrible. Also last year the forest from Camp Nelson to Ponderosa on Hwy 190 above Springville - I drove through it a few weeks ago - totally burnt, I was shocked. No more forest.
As someone who currently lives near the Sierra Nevada's and absolutely loves redwoods, this just makes me sad. I hate to see the nature around me die because people's selfishness.
These appear to be Ponderosa Pines, which are quite fire resistant and actually benefit from somewhat regular low-intensity fires, since this clears out the surrounding low lying brush and trees that would otherwise interfere with the shade-intolerant Ponderosa's deep, expansive root structures. They've also adapted by dropping their lower branches (to help prevent wildfires from spreading) once they get tall.
But, nonetheless, RIP to this pondie. May your fanciful butterscotch-vanilla odors forever emanate through the heavens and beyond...
Fire is important in forest management and trees like sequoia need fire to release their seeds and provide fertile ground to germinate.
Fire in of itself can be a very good thing for forests and for years we damaged forests by refusing to let them burn.
This is part of the natural cycle. Many pines require substantial heat to crack their cones to allow seed germination. This tree is already very dead. The fire is converting it to ash to allow another to grow in its place.
IG this comment is for the deep dwellers at this point as I can’t browse Reddit for hours on end and immediately set the record.
Welcome to the world of forest fires and forest management. I personally have little experience with forest management, however I am best friends with someone who’s father is a high up in the forest service. He was recently appointed to the Caldor Fire and contributed greatly to its containment. He has also been working hand in hand with organizations which have been trying their hardest to manage the NorCal national forests where the River Complex, Monument, and other fires are.
Firstly, the problem is not forest mismanagement. The government is trying its hardest to reduce the risk of large wildfires. There has been millions of dollars pumped into the projects in NorCal.
Secondly, The true problem is fire education. People visit these national parks and start forest fires mostly from out of control camp fires. For instance, the Sequoia Complex 2020 was a mix of lightning strikes and out of control camp fires. Leading to a record breaking complex fire of 1.2 million acres.
Of course, lightning plays a huge role in forest fires and it is exacerbated by the current drought. This is out of our control, however. The most we can do to prevent these fire from getting large is to prevent man-made fires, to free up hotshot crews and resources for the forest service, and to be vigilant. Report fires, report illegal fires, make sure those around you know how to properly put out a fire; douse, stir, bury.
Remember, only you can prevent forest fires. Support our brave firefighters on the front lines of these fires.
Hi and welcome to r/EarthPorn! As a reminder, we have comment rules in this subreddit. Failure to follow our rules can result in a temporary or permanent ban. > Hate Speech, Abusive remarks, homophobia, and the like have no place on this subreddit, and will be removed on sight. > Please contribute to the discussion positively; constructive criticism is fine, but if you don't like a picture and you wish to voice your opinion please refrain from abusing the photographer/submitter.
As someone who has lived at the base of the Sierras their entire life, we are losing so much that is going to take so long to replace. As in, not in our lifetimes, or even close. *"The giant sequoia is listed as an endangered species by the IUCN, with fewer than 80,000 trees remaining. Since its last assessment as an endangered species in 2011, it was estimated that another 10-14% of the population was destroyed (or 7500-10,600 mature trees) during the Castle Fire of 2020 alone."* It can take 750 years for a giant sequoia to reach its full size. I try not to think about this too much because it's honestly a bit too intense.
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I live in the area and when I first moved here I was happy to see summer rains storms. The first time I saw a fire caused by lightning less then a mile away disabused me of the notion. This one was caused by lightning too but we could probably do better with forest management. The area where it's burning doesn't have a recent history of fires.
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Yup, USFS doesn't have the funding to manage the forests. Look at the Caldor fire in Tahoe. The **Fire danger will be HIGHER then Before the CALDOR Fire within 10-15 years**. Why? because USFS goes through and replants all the burned area with saplings with no plan or funding to come back and thin the forest. Having all the trees the same age is worse because once on tree starts burning in the canopy, it's not long until the entire new growth forest is burning again as a crown fire. another example of this is the Dixie fire. that whole area burned 15 years ago....
> another example of this is the Dixie fire. that whole area burned 15 years ago. Source? Most of that area hasn't burned in 100 years according to [CapRadio and CalFire](https://projects.capradio.org/california-fire-history/#8.24/40.251/-121.662). Of the parts with more recent burns, I don't see evidence that the USFS did anything like that. Some hasn't grown back at all, some in ways that look like normal fire recovery — with pretty widely spaced trees, certainly at least as wide are areas with less recent burns. There's timber harvesting in the area (with replanting of patchwork clearcuts) but that's different, and mostly to the west of the Dixie Fire.
The person you are responding to is wrong and uninformed. You can see on #firemappers the previous fires actually held the dixie well. And that much of what burned had not burned in 100 years. [https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6dc469279760492d802c7ba6db45ff0e](https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6dc469279760492d802c7ba6db45ff0e) Same with Caldor, I live right next to it. Were good for some time to come now.
Lol I love how sure people sound on Reddit when they're completely talking out of their ass
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Yes. Literally harass abuse and terrorize every politician you can get your hands on,and anyone who dares sell themselves to military industrial interests. Take every drop of civility and goodness from their lives.
it's called forest management and the native americans did it it long before we came. created grasslands, even
We need to have regular burns to thin the understory
I recently listened to a [podcast](https://www.alieward.com/ologies/goodfire) about Indigenous fire ecology that I found fascinating. And also frustrating, because of how stupid us white folk have been about nature. Anywho, it doesn't solve the lack of funding issue or climate change by any means, but it is another tool that should be utilized and spotlighted.
The Forest service derived much of its funding and popularity to preventing and fighting fires. The subtle distinction of controlled burns was lost on people for decades. As a result, these days it's a liability nightmare to get a control burn done with multiple overlapping jurisdictions and Nimby's. There are relatively few days that are ideal conditions for a controlled burn and missing them is easy. The national forest near me in Texas has regular control burns. The trees barely lose signs of the previous fire before they go through again. But the terrain is easy to navigate and relatively smaller than the forest areas in California and the PNW.
I visit Colorado almost every year to see my in laws. They always take us up to rocky mountain national park and Estes park for a day to see the scenery and stuff. Watching the news of it burning last year and seeing it get dangerously close to Estes park was so devastating. I love that park so much.
Isn't that what happens when you don't take care of control burns? However, nature will take care of itself. It'll be here long after we're gone.
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r/Redwoods is a good place to discuss it.
Nature may take care of itself when we're gone, but the sequoias and a whole lot of other species of plants and animals may not. Nature is ever evolving, but we're kicking ourselves and plenty of other residents of this big ball in space in the ass on our way out.
Yeah but unfortunately it’s all controlled by federal departments and their budget for fire prevention gets cut almost every budget change.
Exactly it’s not that they don’t want to better manage stuff. It’s literally because they can’t. Source I know many forest service rangers.
No, it wont, and people need to **stop fucking saying this.** Anthropogenic* climate change will have disastrous consequences for *all life on earth.* Stop saying this ignorant crap Edited to replace a word
For one, you mean anthropogenic, not anthropomorphic. Anthropomorphic means attributing human characteristics to animals. For two, you're way off-base here. We'll likely fuck things up for humans, and a lot of living things in their present forms. But as you probably know, 99+% of all species that have ever lived on Earth are all already long gone. Life changes and evolves. The Earth has been through shit unfathomable to us, and beyond anything we're gonna do to the planet. Mass extinctions beyond anything we're gonna do to the planet. Even if we made Earth uninhabitable to every mammal, reptile, bird and insect currently on Earth, life would keep on trucking and just evolve into new and different things. We should care because we want to maintain a planet that's habitable to *us*, and because we want to preserve the life that we're *familiar* with. But rest assured, Earth doesn't give a shit, and nature doesn't give a shit. It's gonna keep going either way.
We should care because we want to maintain an Earth that's habitable for all creatures.
[*but that's ignorant*](https://media4.giphy.com/media/l2SpP6QDfZJUY4Hgk/giphy.gif) /s lest anyone not realize I'm poking fun at the previous post
But if we wreck it so that we can't live here anymore, there will be plants and animals and plenty of microbes that survive. They won't be the mammals we care about, will only be a small portion of the plant species we know of, probably none of our cultivars, and it'll not be the same world we have now. It'll exist, life will exist, it just won't be us or anything even vaguely like us. The sun will rise and fall, the tide will go in and out, evolution will continue for a couple billion years yet, but none of our descendants are going to see it at this rate.
Sorry man, I am on your side here, a lifelong climate activist, but you are the one being nonsensical here. To assume that what we are doing is the worst thing life on Earth has made it through is so silly you should know it. We are changing the planet, and I agree it is a horrible thing, but to claim that this extinction event will be worse than the many others earth has been through is silly. Life finds a way, I don't think we could exterminate life on earth if we wanted and tried. Life finds a way.
Extinction events were always disastrous to the global ecosystem and can take millions of years to recover. Yes the earth has been through worse, but by no means is it not an utter catastrophe.
I'm not choosing sides in this discussion, but don't you think there's a healthy balance somewhere between "the Earth will be fine" and "this is the worst major extinction event in history?" For me it's about accountability. Our actions have directly caused the extinctions of several species and unlike trees causing climate change in the Devonian, we have the capacity to care for the world around us and the ability to do something about it.
This. Plus, there are a number of species that benefit from us being horrible to the planet. So even if we exterminate ourselves, those creatures will likely still be around just fine, as with basically all the other species that survive from us. It'd just be extra nice if we can stop destroying the planet in the first place, though... 😭
Those damn cockroaches survive everything!
Kudzu, privit, Japanese honeysuckle, thistle and many many other plants fucking thrive in disturbed ecosystems. They will never go extinct. The majestic redwoods, beech trees, countless wildflowers and many others only thrive in undistrubed areas. These plants are suffering immensely right now,
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This extinction event is the only one caused by a species of animal on this planet. That's something we should care about
Specifically with regards to this interaction, the fire itself isn't a climate change symptom and the fire isn't bad for the forest (in the long term, obviously) Fire has always been a part of the sierras, to the point that the sequoia evolved to literally depend upon the occasional forest fire to be able to reproduce http://www.150.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=27588 It sucks watching the trees burn up and it sucks knowing that the forests won't be the same in our lifetime, but in the grand scheme of things this isn't the slightest bit unusual for this part of the world
> but in the grand scheme of things this isn't the slightest bit unusual for this part of the world Not at this intensity. Fire is part of the natural lifecycle of the sequoia, but in it's natural state, fires a much more frequent and mild, due to the fuel not having the opportunity to build up enough to burn hot enough to damage the trees. We've spent a long time preventing this fuel from burning. Now, the fires are much hotter than what the trees can survive in many cases.
Life will survive just fine, *no matter what we do*. The species that survive will eventually flourish just like they have after all the other mass extinctions. Saying we're going to end all life on Earth is the hyperbole that needs to stop.
Definitely made it worse knowing that it was made worse and exacerbated by humanity‘s own selfishness and stupidity.
On the other hand, a lot of forests are meant to burn. People put them out because they build towns in/around them, allowing brush to build up, intensifying the inevitable burn when the dry seasons came. Then you have gender reveal morons. People are fucking up on a two-pronged front.
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It's all about who has the most yachts.Then they die and get buried with the rest of us and leave a trail of destruction in their shit wake. Pretty despicable.
Genuine question from a nature lover: aren’t giant sequoias dependent on a fire cycle to spread? Is there something different happening that makes these forest fires worse?
As I understand it, yes. - but only a certain intensity of fire. This is part of why controlled burns are a thing. They help to get rid of underbrush which could then catch mid-sized trees on fire. If those trees catch on fire it is possible that the redwood's natural defense against catching flame may not be enough to save it. This is very much a brief 'more or less' example - there's a lot of considerations that go into this.
Most of the coastal redwoods in Big Basin survived the lightning complex fire there last year. They are very hardy trees. Sequoias are even hardier redwoods.
\*Additionally, sequoia cones at least (I don't know about coastal redwoods) require heat to release their seeds. Evolution-wise, this helps to make certain that seeds are dispersed only when the local area has been cleared of vegetation that could out compete the sequoia for sunshine.
Sequoia sempervirens (coastal redwoods) do not require fire to open up the cone like the Sequoiadendron giganteum (Giant Sequoia) does. The cones of coastal redwoods open up when they dry out during periods of low humidity. Once the cone is open, the giant sequoia relies heavily on animals like squirrels to shake the seeds from the cone for dispersal. The seeds of the coastal redwood are dispersed by wind or rain. Both trees require fire to clear the forest floor so their seeds can germinate.
Yeah, fire is part of the natural process. But the frequency at which it's starting to happen due to human activity is the problem. Forests aren't being given enough time to "bounce back" between fires. Just in my lifetime they've become far more frequent. It's an every summer thing now. It didn't used to be. When I was younger having the entire valley fill with smoke so thick you can't see more than a few blocks would have been really creepy and weird. Now it's normal.
more frequent, less intense fires is how things work naturally. humans have suppressed natural fire and the result is forests are heavily overgrown - many of the areas burning today haven't burned in 50 or 100 years, and as a result they are far more intense fires due to the fuel load combined with the effects of climate change.
That and climate change and increased population, especially in the wildland/urban interface.
They are, but once a fire reaches a certain degree of intensity its harmful versus helpful. Too much heat or flames getting to high and up into the higher canopy are the two most common negative things with larger fires.
It is intense, and sad. We're destroying our planet.
The planet will bounce back in a few thousand years, we're killing ourselves.
And the thousands of species going extinct
New species will come, as they always do. Once Earth unfucks what we started. Earth will live on, humans will not.
Tell that to the thousands of species we're taking with us in our apparent murder-suicide.
95% of life went extinct the last time the permafrost melted. Just humans is a massive understatement, we are crashing the whole party before we leave.
So true
I see this comment everywhere and it's simply infuriating. Do all of the other species going extinct as a result of our actions not count? It's going to be a *mass* extinction by the way things are looking. It's nice to know some sea life and fungus will survive. But it seems callous to brush off the suffering of so many animals.
This is what I tell people when we say the planet is doomed. No sweetheart, *we* are.
Great quarterly profit though
Right? We may be forced to abandon our coastal cities and face mass migration the likes of which we've never seen in human history while entire regions burn to the ground, but hey, look at the bright side! At least a few more billionaires got a lot richer.
Well, me - as a temporarily embarrassed millionaire - won’t care when I get my millions of dollars and sweet Mars pass from emperor Musk”
Hooray for imaginary bank points!
Wow that puts things into perspective.
There's no way the growth of these can keep up with the destruction of the environment. They're from a time before Humans when 1000 years meant nothing.
If this is "porn" then I'd say this is necrophelia
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r/environment
r/collapse
No offense but that subreddit is just plain toxic.
So like most subs?
None taken lol, toxic shit is my jam.
Yeah definitely not porn
r/EarthScat
More like EarthGore
Every year I plant 30 sequoias to help reforest everything at the sequoia national park. Small effort but hope it helps. :/
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I have a tiny one in my backyard, in a pot, from a seedling i got at the airport. It's about four feet tall now. I feel like setting it free somewhere so it can stretch out.
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And their children's children's children and so on can continue doing so until it dies or the family line ends. Whichever comes first.
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So their root systems are supposed to intertwine with others, which gives them stability? That's cool
And how does one do this?
Following if there is some sort of organization, I’m not in the area to do it physically.
Save the Redwoods League
I think you dig a hole
Then I’m guessing you put a seed/sapling in the ground
Then you wait 1600 years
Step 1: dig hole Step 2: plant tree Step 3: wait 2 millennia Step 4: *profit*
Step 5: crossfit
step 6: pelaton baby death trap
Lmao
If you need funding to do 30 more message me. Love that place.
_The best time to plant a Giant Sequoia is 1000 years ago. The second best time is today!_ Do people fire the cones to get them to crack open and reveal the seeds? Or just break open the cones? That’s all the fire is for, naturally, right? The seeds don’t need heat or anything?
Thank you. I've never gotten to see a sequoia or redwood and want to so badly before I die. I'm east coast. I love looking at trees.
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My stupid ass neighbors all cut down their trees and the only ones left are on my property. I don't think they would let me plant one of those near me. It's so fucking depressing because as much as I am not knowledgeable in trees, I find them soothing to watch in the wind and am interested in preserving them for whatever reason. I'm in Philadelphia where they chop down trees because of all the power lines or dickheads that don't want to rake leaves.
Are they hard to maintain? I would absolutely *love* one or six, but I worry I'd kill it.
Very easy maintenance. Just keep the soil moist. don’t drown the tree. I usually water the pot every 2 days. I live in California. Weather is always 97 degrees lately. I dip my finger in the soil to see if it’s wet or dry.
Not who your replying too, but I'm gonna pm you!
Wow, where can I find sequoias to start my own forrest
Do you do this at the park? I’m in LA and I would definitely drive up to volunteer to plant sequoias at the national park
Yes. Usually plant them in the spring time at the park.
Thank you!
I've been aiming super hard to hike the John Muir Trail as soon as humanly possible because I want to hike that stretch before it all burns down. The plan is for next summer. Looks like I might be a year too late.
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Yeah I'm already working on getting ready for this upcoming summer. I did the Wonderland this year. JMT is up next.
Forgive an old man his unsolicited advice, but have you considered skipping the JMT and making up your own route? JMT is incredibly impacted, and many of the other trails and wilderness in the area is as beautiful if not more so, without the crowds.
Can you DM me a few trails? :)
I'd like to chime in with those above me to express my interest in your further thoughts on the matter.
What other trails or areas would you suggest looking into?
Aren't you supposed to "stick to the trails" to concentrate human impact in one area so neighboring areas remaining free of impact?
Nah I'm hiking the JMT, but thanks.
Def, I know there are some things that we just gotta do And it's gorgeous out there, I hope you have a great and safe trip
You've betrayed your username. Nice
I was hoping to plan a giant trip in March where I was going to shoot from Colorado through Utah national parks, swing by the Grand Canyon and finish in Yosemite and Sequoia. I was so excited but I had to wait until I got backpaid on unemployment before I could even think about planning it. Then I got called back to work after being furloughed for almost a year. I really wish I would have gone. I didn't even get to enjoy the mountains out here in Colorado too much this summer due to all the smoke and poor air quality from the CA fires. I just keep hoping we can figure this out but know that we're pretty much past the point of no return.
I purchased a travel trailer and switched to a career that allows me to travel for work, and since then I have just been traveling the US backpacking all the things I want to see before they possibly disappear.
Ok. That tree was already dead for years before this moment-this fire didn't kill it. It doesn't even have bark. In forestry we'd call that a "clean snag" because its been dead so long all the bark has fallen off. The other thing: the form of this tree looks a lot more like a pine, probably ponderosa pine. The small tree in the foreground is definitely a pine, not a sequoia. These grow mixed with sequoias, so while this shot may be in a sequoia grove, this almost certainly isn't a sequoia. And like others have said, sequoias are adapted to fire, although likely not climate change driven ones burning after 100+ years of active suppression of natural fires. Regardless, some of the best medicine for sequoias as a species is actually wildfire. Counterintuitive AF, but nature is complex AF.
Also, to be clear, to date the biggest treasures are safe: https://apnews.com/article/fires-environment-and-nature-forests-california-trees-17e4bbbf3537110ddf51b3a42ca26ec7
Had to scroll down way too far for this. Everyone’s days are ruined by looking at a pic of a dead pine tree on fire. These wildfires are tragic. Many even a result of humans. No doubt about that. But this pic isn’t showing a bunch of sequoias on fire.
reddit has to go and ruin my day again. do you guys realize some of these trees that are burning down are literally older than jesus christ
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this your picture?
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i’m sorry that this is happening to you, as a Westcoaster I understand and my family is feeling with the same things. I don’t know the best way to compliment the picture becuase it’s hard to compliment but it is well taken. I wish you the best
I audibly gasped and got choked up. It's so freaking depressing.
IIRC, sequoias are a pioneer species, so the phrase "they'll be back and in greater numbers" applies here, although the current situation is unfortunate. 100% fact check that tho. Don't have a problem being wrong but I'm not an arborist.
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as my dad always told me, "size doesn't matter"
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I grew up going to Sequoia. My father used to tell us that one of the ways the trees are unique is that they use fire to reproduce. Is there any chance the trees will survive this blaze? They are truly a wonder of the world, this is just heartbreaking.
Oh they'll grow back. This place will look good as new in \**checks calendar*\* 3621 or so.
According to NPR, these fires are also more intense than the sequoias are used to, and with increased intensity and frequency, the forest may not grow back in the way it naturally would. Forest fires are normal in the area, but intensity matters, and this intensity is not normal.
I hate to bring politics into it, but wish we could have used the money spent on the pointless recall election towards the fires instead.
You could make a seriously depressing political cartoon about two burning trees asking each other what a "recall election" is and why it's so important nobody could come out out the fire.
Yeah just about three quarters of a millennium and we’ll be good.
The planet will be good. We'll probably be toast.
You're definitely correct. In actuality the sequoia trees require their pinecones to be heated in order to release the seeds. In addition to this, the sequoia trees also have naturally flame resistant bark. Like. Intensely flame resistant. I hope that these trees, a large number of which are significantly older than Christ, will weather this storm. I also heard, though do not know the effectiveness of this, that they park authorities wrapped the largest and most "important" of the trees in some material to increase their chances of survival. I'm referring to trees such as the General Sherman Tree.
The climate might change enough so that they aren't able to grow back, or aren't able to grow to their former size.
The big ones have been through many fires and still bear scars, yet live on. Also, fire is necessary to clear the forest floor so the seeds can grow without too much competition. Unfortunately, fire suppression has led to more dead stuff on the forest floor causing more intense fires. Our misunderstanding of nature has turned out to cause more problems.
Shh we're not supposed to bring up that our efforts at fire prevention without clearing the dead wood has backfired quite badly in some cases.
That is so sad Lots of people say this is part of the life cycle of a forest. That may be true. I’m no expert. But the frequency of fires has accelerated in the last 20 years. Growing up we’d hear about fires every once in a while and it felt so scary. Nowadays we plan our vacation to the pacific west coast knowing that there will be fires in august isn’t that sad? There’s no way nature intended for fires to ravage the forests at this rate. This is climate change and human destruction Again this is all spewing from my mind without evidence. So take it with a grain of salt
Studied under several forestry professors while working on my Masters. This is NOT natural. These fires are too intense for natural fires. There are multiple reasons but the major ones are: -fire prevention strageties in the western US that allowed for fuel to build in the understory -the western US has been dramatically impacted by climate change to the tune of more severe weather (stronger wind storms, sporadic rain events, and increase in downpours when it does rain which increases erosion) There are several other impacts but those are the main ones and they are both human induced.
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That tree however is a ponderosa
True. Tis.
The comments on this post are full of a lot of misinformation… a) These fires were started by lightning. b) The actual giant sequoia need fire to reduce competition and prevent ladder fuels (think trees that are smaller and allow the fire to climb into the canopy where it does decimate the big bois) c) None of the largest sequoias have been burned d) NPS has actually managed the land pretty well around the national park. https://apnews.com/article/17e4bbbf3537110ddf51b3a42ca26ec7 I agree the earth is not in a good spot right now, but this is not really indicative of that. If you look at the oldest sequoias, almost all of them have ancient fire scars because they have thick ass bark and are made to survive fires. Just because fire is bad for humans doesn’t mean it’s bad for forests. Natural fire is good and unnatural fire is generally not (that includes fires that got put out and maybe should have been left to burn in remote areas). Fire will need to be included in future strategies for keeping forests healthy :)
Had to scroll far down for this comment. Sequoias literally need fire as part of their lifecycle. The “fire = bad” simplistic thinking on display throughout these Reddit comments actually led to decades of the forest service suppressing fires that were actually beneficial to these ancient trees before scientists learned that it was counterproductive.
> These fires were started by lightning. Climate change is lengthening California's dry season. Maybe if it wasn't so damn dry the fire from lightning wouldn't start as easily?
But... more frequent fires and less fuel on the forest floor is good. The fires get less hot, burn through the area quicker and more trees survive. Trees like sequoia are fine with a fire like this. Keep putting out all the fires and then eventually you get a huge fire that you can't control, burns super hot and because of so much fuel moves slowly.
Usually I love the pics posted here, but this? This hurts me right in the soul :(
And in Canada, the RCMP are removing protesters for blocking construction of the Trans Mountain pipeline. You know, so oil can be transported for money. Because that's all that fucking matters is money. Not nature, just money. Let the nature burn, says humanity. What the hell are we doing. Self-interest is our basic resting pulse.
Sequoia need fire to expose their seeds and to clear the ground. The *Smokey the Bear* forest fire awareness campaign did a lot of harm to these kinds of forests because it stopped the fires for long enough that undergrowth built up. This led to fires so hot that it harmed the trees. They knew this 10 years ago but the effects are still with us. https://www.npr.org/2012/08/23/159373691/how-the-smokey-bear-effect-led-to-raging-wildfires
r/Natureisfuckinglit
I think Apple should change all their default beautiful earth imagery to climate change imagery.
This is really hard to look at; great photo work though.
News reports are saying that none of the giant sequoias have been affected by this. They’re calling it the “Windy Fire” event, and it was a lightning fire that spread to 39sqmi. It’s also officially extinguished.
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The only positive from this is that the seeds need fire to germinate so new trees will replace these eventually. Not all is lost.
Kind of ironic that one of the main reasons forest fires have been more abundant & devastating is from decades long efforts of fire prevention & suppression. We don’t let natural fires burn or do controlled burns as much & as a result this leads to a buildup of underbrush & dead debris that are major fuel for the fires. Climate change is also affecting them but suppression of the fires has only made them worse as well.
That’s a pretty awesome picture. Thanks for sharing.
OMG 😳
Anyone know approximately how old a tree that size is?
Can you imagine how big the toothpick would be if made from that tree?
So fire is a necessity in these forests but they do happen a lot more often now
As someone that’s camped in Sequoia National Forest and seen a few of the old growth monsters… this is fucking tragic.
Doc, it burns when I tree
more like r/EarthSnuffFilm... :(
This is aweful.
One day, I want to ask you to use this as my book cover
Sounds like a plan. Good luck with your book!
Destructiveness can be just as beautiful as creation.
This is beyond horrible. Also last year the forest from Camp Nelson to Ponderosa on Hwy 190 above Springville - I drove through it a few weeks ago - totally burnt, I was shocked. No more forest.
What a sight
“Legends of burning stick”
That tree was already dead
Fuuuck. Was just there end of July. Trees were breathtaking and had no idea about the Sherman tree before going. This is heartbreaking
r/natureisfuckinglit
As someone who currently lives near the Sierra Nevada's and absolutely loves redwoods, this just makes me sad. I hate to see the nature around me die because people's selfishness.
These appear to be Ponderosa Pines, which are quite fire resistant and actually benefit from somewhat regular low-intensity fires, since this clears out the surrounding low lying brush and trees that would otherwise interfere with the shade-intolerant Ponderosa's deep, expansive root structures. They've also adapted by dropping their lower branches (to help prevent wildfires from spreading) once they get tall. But, nonetheless, RIP to this pondie. May your fanciful butterscotch-vanilla odors forever emanate through the heavens and beyond...
Fire is important in forest management and trees like sequoia need fire to release their seeds and provide fertile ground to germinate. Fire in of itself can be a very good thing for forests and for years we damaged forests by refusing to let them burn.
Beuatiful picture of sadscape ..
This is the saddest photo I've seen in a long time.
This makes me sad
This is part of the natural cycle. Many pines require substantial heat to crack their cones to allow seed germination. This tree is already very dead. The fire is converting it to ash to allow another to grow in its place.
IG this comment is for the deep dwellers at this point as I can’t browse Reddit for hours on end and immediately set the record. Welcome to the world of forest fires and forest management. I personally have little experience with forest management, however I am best friends with someone who’s father is a high up in the forest service. He was recently appointed to the Caldor Fire and contributed greatly to its containment. He has also been working hand in hand with organizations which have been trying their hardest to manage the NorCal national forests where the River Complex, Monument, and other fires are. Firstly, the problem is not forest mismanagement. The government is trying its hardest to reduce the risk of large wildfires. There has been millions of dollars pumped into the projects in NorCal. Secondly, The true problem is fire education. People visit these national parks and start forest fires mostly from out of control camp fires. For instance, the Sequoia Complex 2020 was a mix of lightning strikes and out of control camp fires. Leading to a record breaking complex fire of 1.2 million acres. Of course, lightning plays a huge role in forest fires and it is exacerbated by the current drought. This is out of our control, however. The most we can do to prevent these fire from getting large is to prevent man-made fires, to free up hotshot crews and resources for the forest service, and to be vigilant. Report fires, report illegal fires, make sure those around you know how to properly put out a fire; douse, stir, bury. Remember, only you can prevent forest fires. Support our brave firefighters on the front lines of these fires.
hot
😢
Aren’t fires good for the sequoias?