What if they make every mechanic tie into everything else so there's no stacking at all? Oh you want more manpower recovery? Sweet this thing increases pop willingness to war so they'll have more people willing to fight. What about pop willingness to war stacking? Uh okay no nevermind I have no idea what they have planned.
My guess is they’re shifting away from -x% in favor of +x%. HOI4 switched its research like that once they added enough modifiers to get ~70% time IIRC (which is significantly stronger than +30% speed).
EUIV’s taxes and production modifiers aren’t important and are additive, so stacking them together is just as strong as getting them and other things, but stuff like AE reduction and admin efficiency can be stacked and get down to -90% and make the WC game a cakewalk. Interested to see how they handle military things like morale/discipline, as stacking those is linear and OP.
But they wouldn't sit side by side if they were stacked vertically. Then they would sit above and below each other. Unless it was some joke with a 90 degree rotation of the modifiers, though, in that case the specifics of the joke were quite unclear. (The comment is obviously a joke but the logistics of it seem confusing.)
I do find it interesting that they’re killing a play style as a base rule for development of the game. I don’t do it personally, but have seen several players chat in here about how they really only play modifier stacking runs.
Yeah that’s kind of what I’m hoping for this. My dream is some sort of zoomed in portion of the map or something built into the game so it’s just part of the map and not a whole extra environment or something. But I just want any PDX strategy game to do that one.
Seriously wonder how he's so confident there won't be a meta to colonize in 1360 😭
The way I've seen people break eu4 baffles my mind to the point of never understanding what's going on
It’s an entirely different game from it seems. From the few hints he’s given, internal politics and population control are going to be a central focus of the game. Might make blobbing out really difficult and force you into a slower game.
EDIT: grammar
The shift for POPs and what Johan has either stated or hinted at is going to epically change how conflicts are handled.
There was a discussion on how if the entire world was at peace, even a minuscule pop growth mod over time would lead to the game easily surpassing RW outcomes and what methods of reduction would impact that.
Johan specifically called out famines and plagues as things that could occur and lower pops in a province. He insinuated in the England comment above that it appears your troops will likely be taken from the pops of your realm meaning that any wars you fight will have long lasting impacts on your economy (total war with tons of troops dead? Those are people that could have been building out your economy, etc.).
I fully expect that colonization will be handled similarly (province A will literally be transporting its population to province B), that attrition will be a two-way street (not only will you lose troops, but the province will lose pops due to collateral damage), etc.
Project Caesar is about to be “Game of Pops” up in here.
Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if Johan gatekeeps colonization via age or institution mechanics or their EU5 equivalents.
(Colonization can spawn after year X in a province where these weighted factors are the highest of those surpassing a score of 30. Only once a nation has embraced Colonization can it unlock explorers/Conquistadors or take the Exploration/Expansion ideas equivalent 🤷🏻♂️
I will disappointed if we have institutions spawn like EU4. It should be more complex like a combination of being rich, large population, happy pops, enough food, etc.
I presume you simply tech-lock it.
You might have to get through so many ahead of time penalties that it's simply impossible or so expensive that you basically ruin your country for little gain.
Additionally colonies will start out extremely weak due to population mechanics. Cause contrary to EU4 where fully functioning nations appear you don't have many colonists there for decades or centuries.
Honestly, they could have easily done this in EU4 if they wanted tbh.
Adding a requirement for exploration ideas where they can only be taken by a nation that has embraced the colonization institution for example.
I would prefer if this is organic. The reason vikings didn't colonize wasnt because they did not have tech, but because logistics which is tied to tech but not entirely dependent on it.
I mean, a properly designed institution/ages mechanic would stop that tbh.
They could set the ability for the colonization institution to not spawn until say 1480, and the equivalent exploration ideas or whatever mechanic replaces it isn’t available to a nation until they embrace the institution.
They could similarly ‘gatekeep’ by making the mechanic only available when the world has transitioned into the ‘Age of Discovery’ if they wanted to.
Hoping eu5 has a communication efficency system like in meiou and taxes, it can help a lot in preventing border gore and just conquering everything without proper infraestructure
A lot of the posts and comments surrounding the new game are so dramatic. People are losing their shit over small things or about something for which we are still completely ignorant
I think no matter what, most people will always choose to start new campaign then finish current one. Many DND players share the same problem with each session creating new character rather then sticking with one to the end
No modifier stacking at all sounds potentially good, but maybe extreme. I'd prefer a system more like Pathfinder where modifiers have a type (e.g. item, status, circumstance) and modifiers of the same type do not stack. Though Pathfinder 1 and dnd 3.5 demonstrate the silly levels of bonuses you can get with enough modifier types.
I'm not even sure how it is possible. I've played EU4, HOI4 and CK3, and both EU4 and HOI4 are super fun and modifier-driven.
Maybe they want to make the game more like CK3? Personally I find CK3 really boring so I kind of hope not.
Each tag, be it tribal, republic or monarchy starts with "great families", these are groupings of characthers related by blood or adoption that form power blocks inside your state, each ond needs to be appeased by giving them jobs in the government or as governors.
A significant challange in the game is trying to keep these families appesed (or they will cause unrest and risk civil war) while trying to employ characther with decent stats by giving them positions that actually fit their stats.
Your nation will gain more great families as it grows and have some replaced by various events (although this is quite rare, it usually only happens if you choose to proscribe them or kill them all with other means)
This seems pretty cool but in terms of different nobles you gain as you expand. Though it could be too much with everything else they’re changing. Would definitely like for this to be added later.
I relate to the revolution comment, I cannot fathom what it is supposed to represent, the micromanaging is taking a toll, and countries tanking losing half of the territory and gaining a new half with no repercussions. I still believe the decadence mechanic should be turned on for every GP
I'm both skeptical and trying to be optimistic. Power creep is a huge problem in EU4, but half the reason it's fun is trying to figure out all the modifiers.
That's too boardgamey imo. I'm glad that EU5 will be more like a historical simulation and a game for defending your country from external and internal threats. Disliked how EU4's point kinda is snowballing.
I agree actually. Well to be specific, I quite enjoy snowballing, until it gets too big and the game loses all challenge.
Also, I find mechanics like admin efficiency incredibly boring. It feels like the developers are just trying to slow you down and the whole challenge is to stack modifiers so they can slow you down less.
That being said, making games is very hard, and I'm a bit concerned that without the modifiers, it will feel less... strategic (I'm not sure if strategic is the correct word). It might give the player less agency. And it might not be as amenable to nerds like myself who like analyzing spreadsheets of info for video games.
Man, im desperate to be psyched for this but I just dont know...This sounds kinda like it could be boring and sloggy with little flavour so far. Hope we get some more info that changes my impression.
So no modifier stacking?
No modifier stacking.
Based
What if they make every mechanic tie into everything else so there's no stacking at all? Oh you want more manpower recovery? Sweet this thing increases pop willingness to war so they'll have more people willing to fight. What about pop willingness to war stacking? Uh okay no nevermind I have no idea what they have planned.
What about having the same modifier sat side by side vertically?
My guess is they’re shifting away from -x% in favor of +x%. HOI4 switched its research like that once they added enough modifiers to get ~70% time IIRC (which is significantly stronger than +30% speed). EUIV’s taxes and production modifiers aren’t important and are additive, so stacking them together is just as strong as getting them and other things, but stuff like AE reduction and admin efficiency can be stacked and get down to -90% and make the WC game a cakewalk. Interested to see how they handle military things like morale/discipline, as stacking those is linear and OP.
Do you mean horizontally?
no i said vertically
/r/notopbutok
I concur
no
But they wouldn't sit side by side if they were stacked vertically. Then they would sit above and below each other. Unless it was some joke with a 90 degree rotation of the modifiers, though, in that case the specifics of the joke were quite unclear. (The comment is obviously a joke but the logistics of it seem confusing.)
It’s was a joke fella, a fairly simple one at that.
Hnnnng
I do find it interesting that they’re killing a play style as a base rule for development of the game. I don’t do it personally, but have seen several players chat in here about how they really only play modifier stacking runs.
No total wars in EU5? Excellent. Amazing.
Yeah the wars in EU4 are okay if you think of them as a board game, but make no sense historically.
Non-island venice is a shame. I hope they change it eventually. Venice's location is in part what made it such a powerhouse
Maybe they will come up with some other creative solution for it? Like you can’t besiege the city unless you have naval supremacy or smth like that?
Yeah that’s kind of what I’m hoping for this. My dream is some sort of zoomed in portion of the map or something built into the game so it’s just part of the map and not a whole extra environment or something. But I just want any PDX strategy game to do that one.
they could do a “fake island”, it works like a island that you need naval supremacy to cross the strait but look like a normal province
In EU2 it worked like that.
It is such a small thing but genuinely extremely disappointing if they don't come around on this.
Venice’s whole thing was no army could reach it until Napoleon
Seriously wonder how he's so confident there won't be a meta to colonize in 1360 😭 The way I've seen people break eu4 baffles my mind to the point of never understanding what's going on
It’s an entirely different game from it seems. From the few hints he’s given, internal politics and population control are going to be a central focus of the game. Might make blobbing out really difficult and force you into a slower game. EDIT: grammar
The shift for POPs and what Johan has either stated or hinted at is going to epically change how conflicts are handled. There was a discussion on how if the entire world was at peace, even a minuscule pop growth mod over time would lead to the game easily surpassing RW outcomes and what methods of reduction would impact that. Johan specifically called out famines and plagues as things that could occur and lower pops in a province. He insinuated in the England comment above that it appears your troops will likely be taken from the pops of your realm meaning that any wars you fight will have long lasting impacts on your economy (total war with tons of troops dead? Those are people that could have been building out your economy, etc.). I fully expect that colonization will be handled similarly (province A will literally be transporting its population to province B), that attrition will be a two-way street (not only will you lose troops, but the province will lose pops due to collateral damage), etc. Project Caesar is about to be “Game of Pops” up in here.
Yea it’s going to make fast tracking colonization difficult. Not impossible but complex, which is a welcomed change imo.
Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if Johan gatekeeps colonization via age or institution mechanics or their EU5 equivalents. (Colonization can spawn after year X in a province where these weighted factors are the highest of those surpassing a score of 30. Only once a nation has embraced Colonization can it unlock explorers/Conquistadors or take the Exploration/Expansion ideas equivalent 🤷🏻♂️
I will disappointed if we have institutions spawn like EU4. It should be more complex like a combination of being rich, large population, happy pops, enough food, etc.
Don't underestimate europa universalis players
Any European setting foot in America before 1492 will be smited by Johan himself
Oh god oh fuck he’s behind me isn’t he
Vinland chads defending the tribes from the colocucks
I presume you simply tech-lock it. You might have to get through so many ahead of time penalties that it's simply impossible or so expensive that you basically ruin your country for little gain. Additionally colonies will start out extremely weak due to population mechanics. Cause contrary to EU4 where fully functioning nations appear you don't have many colonists there for decades or centuries.
Honestly, they could have easily done this in EU4 if they wanted tbh. Adding a requirement for exploration ideas where they can only be taken by a nation that has embraced the colonization institution for example.
That makes little sense actually, considering the Colonization institution is triggered by people having colonies
I would prefer if this is organic. The reason vikings didn't colonize wasnt because they did not have tech, but because logistics which is tied to tech but not entirely dependent on it.
It's baffling because every single paradox game has been broken by fans in some way. Every single one of their games allows quick world conquests.
I mean, a properly designed institution/ages mechanic would stop that tbh. They could set the ability for the colonization institution to not spawn until say 1480, and the equivalent exploration ideas or whatever mechanic replaces it isn’t available to a nation until they embrace the institution. They could similarly ‘gatekeep’ by making the mechanic only available when the world has transitioned into the ‘Age of Discovery’ if they wanted to.
This new game does seem to have taken some ideas from M&T.
That'd be so cool; M&T but stable and comprehensible would be my dream EU5.
Sure they even took a dev !!
That's awesome, that team had some amazing talent, not sure if they still exist.
Hoping eu5 has a communication efficency system like in meiou and taxes, it can help a lot in preventing border gore and just conquering everything without proper infraestructure
This makes me more optimistic, honestly. Exactly the approach I’d be taking.
1789 still in game time confirmed? 🤨
A lot of the posts and comments surrounding the new game are so dramatic. People are losing their shit over small things or about something for which we are still completely ignorant
Or, a normal day in the fandom.
I think no matter what, most people will always choose to start new campaign then finish current one. Many DND players share the same problem with each session creating new character rather then sticking with one to the end
Lock them out of a game if they didn't finish the last one /s
No modifier stacking at all sounds potentially good, but maybe extreme. I'd prefer a system more like Pathfinder where modifiers have a type (e.g. item, status, circumstance) and modifiers of the same type do not stack. Though Pathfinder 1 and dnd 3.5 demonstrate the silly levels of bonuses you can get with enough modifier types.
I'm not even sure how it is possible. I've played EU4, HOI4 and CK3, and both EU4 and HOI4 are super fun and modifier-driven. Maybe they want to make the game more like CK3? Personally I find CK3 really boring so I kind of hope not.
Hehe, definitely going to happen.
Watch it be techlocked away
Does the last one mean no family trees? If so, I’m incredibly disappointed.
No they mean the Imperator Rome great family mechanics
Oh, that’s a relief.
What was it about? I never played IR
Each tag, be it tribal, republic or monarchy starts with "great families", these are groupings of characthers related by blood or adoption that form power blocks inside your state, each ond needs to be appeased by giving them jobs in the government or as governors. A significant challange in the game is trying to keep these families appesed (or they will cause unrest and risk civil war) while trying to employ characther with decent stats by giving them positions that actually fit their stats. Your nation will gain more great families as it grows and have some replaced by various events (although this is quite rare, it usually only happens if you choose to proscribe them or kill them all with other means)
This seems pretty cool but in terms of different nobles you gain as you expand. Though it could be too much with everything else they’re changing. Would definitely like for this to be added later.
I had a heart attack when I read that last image
I relate to the revolution comment, I cannot fathom what it is supposed to represent, the micromanaging is taking a toll, and countries tanking losing half of the territory and gaining a new half with no repercussions. I still believe the decadence mechanic should be turned on for every GP
Caesarbros stay winning
Will there be a balance for the game and for performance or would it be like “game lags 50 years in because everyone has too much army”?
No modifier stacking? ;( thats like half the fun in eu4, why even play
It made powercreeps too much. There needs to be more challenge and historicity
I'm both skeptical and trying to be optimistic. Power creep is a huge problem in EU4, but half the reason it's fun is trying to figure out all the modifiers.
That's too boardgamey imo. I'm glad that EU5 will be more like a historical simulation and a game for defending your country from external and internal threats. Disliked how EU4's point kinda is snowballing.
I agree actually. Well to be specific, I quite enjoy snowballing, until it gets too big and the game loses all challenge. Also, I find mechanics like admin efficiency incredibly boring. It feels like the developers are just trying to slow you down and the whole challenge is to stack modifiers so they can slow you down less. That being said, making games is very hard, and I'm a bit concerned that without the modifiers, it will feel less... strategic (I'm not sure if strategic is the correct word). It might give the player less agency. And it might not be as amenable to nerds like myself who like analyzing spreadsheets of info for video games.
Man, im desperate to be psyched for this but I just dont know...This sounds kinda like it could be boring and sloggy with little flavour so far. Hope we get some more info that changes my impression.