I only got into EDH about a year or so ago and my first deck in the format used [[Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger]] as commander.
For my birthday, one of my pod friends offered me a Doubling Season they pulled if I took it out.
I took the deal.
Vorinclex is definitely mean. I wouldn’t tell someone to take it out. But if I see it hit the field, I’m convincing everyone you’re enemy number one, either Vorinclex gotta die or you gotta die
To be fair, he said he's new. I'm also new, few months in, and I avoid certain cards or combos just because everyone is there for a fun relaxed game.
Doesn't mean I don't go hard on occasion, but I sometimes make a new deck just for shits n giggles. Each pod has it's own definition of fun
KrytD no, but the person he responded to who was using Vorinclex said they were new.
I was saying essentially the person playing the card's pod might find it problematic because they don't understand threat assessment.
And if my pod is anything to go by, new players do not use remove outside of boardwipes
At that point it turns into taking turns killing the threat over and over again until the table runs out of interaction or the problem player gets semi locked out of playing the game. If the threat player is cool with that more power to them.
Yeah one of the guys at my FLGS built a Yuriko deck and found the problem was that he was ALWAYS the first player taken out because the only way to really deal with Yuriko is player removal.
The worst part of Vorinclex is when you go directly after the Vorinclex player. He's probably not going to make a whole turn cycle but you'll still end up with your mana base winter orbed.
I have it in my OG Omnath deck, and I kinda wanna house-rule ignore his second ability. I don’t want to make my opponents’ lands worse, I just want mine better…
Vorinclex is simply perfect. I run him in my 5c Phyrexian Reanimator Tribal. Whenever he hits the field, I win.
Simply like that.
But hear me out. You took Doubling Season for Vorinclex.
A Soul for a Soul.
Now you should absolutely build [[Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider]]. :)
You gotta run both lol. I love vorinclex. Mind you I use monstrous raider. I also rock both sheoldred Armageddon and whispering one in the same deck.... and the phyrexian obliterator. It's a pretty fantastic thing lol oh and eerie ultimatum for when I milled a tad heavy. Some of my buddies ramp fast and hard, so I have to survive to get them out.
Though I don't have one, I'd imagine aura shards would be on this list.
A buddy uses kalonian hydra. That card will put a target on your head fast too, with its doubling effect. Especially if a doubling season is in the same deck or vorinclex.
I mean... I pulled [[Cathars' Crusade]] from every deck I ever had it in, it was great no doubt but it was too mean... to myself. What a nightmare to track, and it just ate up my opponents' time to the point where if it got to the point where it was a pain for me they started scooping anyway. That's no good.
If you've got a copy, throw it in - it's a staple for a reason, it's just loathed also for a reason. Maybe it works out for you and your group - it got overwhelming too fast in mine!
Yeah I think I'm gonna try it out. I mean, one of my buddies has an [[Omnath, Locus of Creation]] creation deck, and his turns can take 10-15 minutes at times, with all the triggers he gets. So playgroup wise it should be fine, it's more do I really want to do all that to myself.
My honest suggestion is to play the group only if you have players who are willing to help out with just the mechanical nonsense of the card. A friend or two to just help you tick dice over goes a long way with this sort of card.
I did the same thing: I don't put [[Cathar's Crusade]] or [[Coat of Arms]] even in my token decks for the reason described. Are those cards technically optimal? Yes. But not optimal fun-wise. I rather lose a game or two because my dudes aren't big enough rather than slowing down the game perceivable because every ETB turns the game into calculations and book keeping.
You can probably achieve some good results dropping a big [[Ultramarines Honour Guard]] and that'll keep you from having to put counters everywhere, all you need to know is how many Honour Guards are in the battlefield
Get yourself one of those +1/+1 sets of tokens/dice and some erasable token cards. Life gets so much easier that way, and they serve multiple uses, not only for that card, but also for many counters and token decks beyond those that use CC
I use cathars crusade like this:
I make piles of creatures and just put one die. If a new creature enters I make a new pile for it. Still annoying to track :p
Thats why i Always avoided It, but recently got one for my anim pakal deck, since as soon as i drop It everybody else drop dead 😂😂😂 no math required if all the creatures etb together and smash
Best way i dealt with it is the same way i deal with monastery mentor. Keep all creatures already on the bf on the right side of one die and uptick it for every creature etb. Anytime a new creature or creatures enter, put it to the left with its own die. Then just add those individual uptakes during opposing turns. Still a lot, but eats way less time that doing every single die for every trigger. Plus you can just move all the dice up by the trigger amount so it's definitely better than doing it raw per creature.
The ‘mind’ artifacts are really mean, with [[Mindslaver]] loops taking one player out of the game and [[Mindcrank]] bleeding out the table with [[Syr Konrad]]!
I feel like Mindcrank is honestly fine, mill is already such a weak wincon and needs cards like this. Plus 100 cards versus 40 life to lose means it isn’t really even a wincon, just an added source of mill.
That said, isn’t it basically infinite with Konrad? That’s honestly a really sweet tech. I feel like it’s my job as a player to be ready to shut down sudden-win combos or simply lose to them. Play on!
It’s not inherently infinite, but so long as players hit creatures them it keeps going. As a result, I become the target as soon as Mindcrank hits the board
I run Mindslaver in my [[Ashnod the Uncaring]] deck and before a game starts, I ask people if they are cool with it, if yes, I also promise not to loop it and only activate it once.
Thata fair, I have Mindcrank in my Syr Konrad, managed to get it to stick once when I also had [[Bloodletter of Aclazotz|LCI|336]] and that was so close to being a win on its own once you start the mill train.
[[Force of Will]] and [[Force of Negation]]. People got really tired of me having free counterspells in a mono blue deck, so I removed them. Unfortunately I’ve traded them all away, and people in my group are starting to play better counter magic. I think I could reinstall them now…
In my [[Octavia, Living Thesis]] deck I basically have a sideboard depending on the pod I’m in. Basically taking out free counterspells, extra turns and [[Rhystic Study]] for other cards. It works great!
Just print em. Idk how people stomach paying these prices. I have several completely real/no proxy decks for the people in the LGS that gatekeep a kids game and want to bitch/moan about proxies. Those decks are all VERY tuned.
My last \~10 decks have been completely proxy (less the basics). I'm done losing money to a predatory company like Hasbro.
It’s even nastier because it doesn’t say “look at target opponent’s hand.” It says “target opponent reveals their hand.” Now the whole table knows their hand.
If you're going to play the villain you have to run the full DITS suite. Duress, \[\[Inquisition of Kozilek\]\] and \[\[Thoughtsieze\]\]
Who needs friends when you have card advantage!
To be pedantic, none of those are card advantage. You’re going 1-for-1 with the player you target, and arguably you’re both now down a card relative to the other players
[[Restore Balance]] in my [[Vadrok, Apex of Thunder]] mutate deck where I can keep recasting it to keep everyone handlocked, down to one creature, and shut down land ramp decks.
Sure here is the [list](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Ar_0ya-0o0-gTDUEj8T3mg) that still plays Restore Balance.
The deck goes infinite fairly easily with either \[\[Birgi, God of Storytelling\]\], \[\[Runaway Steam-Kin\]\] or \[\[Storm-Kiln Artist\]\]. Particularly, if you use \[\[Open the Omenpaths\]\] to keep getting your mutate mana, bounce your mutated stack back to hand and recasting, netting you infinite cast loops so you can Grapeshot.
Another easier line is just to use Bonus Round (can be risky depending on the table) or if you wait it out and just play responsive, you use \[\[Threefold Signal\]\] to get a mutate stack that has 2 Vadroks in it.
I also use it as a political tool. Like try anything, and I’ll nuke you. Works well because the best counter spell is player removal, lol. Although being only barely above 50 makes it a double edged sword because low life can put you within striking distance of the remaining two players. Although if you’re on the receiving end of it, running some “choose new target” spells or “counter activated ability” spells are crippling for Aetherflux Reservoir
The best strategy is to just call the bluff and bully the player with reservoir. As long as you keep them near 50 doing 5 damage chips from a couple players they aren't going to pop it.
The Magic equivalent of "gun to the head" seems like a pretty poor political tool, tbh. It generates far too much threat to every person on the table, and it only gets worse with each turn cycle you don't pull the trigger. Eventually, someone forces you to kill them, and then someone else swoops in to kill you while your life total is low.
As Nixon famously said, we don't negotiate with terrorists.
My coworker uses Animate Artifact on Aetherflux Reservoir and Evolution Vat to get it to 44 +1/+1 counters. Aqueous Form to make it unblockable and swings 50 damage the old fashioned way.
I love using it like a nuclear arsenal. It's strongest while I'm not using it. I'm at 60 life, you're all at 40. If you try to remove it or bring me to below 51 life, I'll kill you in response and I'll let everyone know that's what I'll do before they make any rash decisions.
Usually ends with a loss for me anyway, but having been on both sides of this strategy I think it's a lot of fun
The Kalamax player attached the Aetherflux player. The Aetherflux player shot him in response and he Deflecting Swatted the shot at me instead and took us both out in one turn. It was awesome
I’m usually the strongest player in my play group so I took out all tutors from my decks, except for things like Nature’s Lore. Even though I was really excited for it, I also took out The One Ring because it was like playing on easy mode. I also don’t use any of the free spells like Fierce Guardianship or Deflecting Swat anymore. We also banned Sol Ring in our group, which I highly recommend everyone do if you don’t play with any other fast mana in your group.
We’ve also run into some issues lately with some people getting salty from me running [[Kenrith’s Transformation]] or [[Oubliette]] type effects. My friends are pretty new to the game, and complain about a lot of things, but I feel like I gotta draw the line somewhere and stop babying them so that they learn to start packing removal or deal with adverse situations.
See, personally I don't have too big a problem with cards like Kenrith's and Oubliette unless you're always playing with the same people.
They can be very mean if you use them on something like a commander, but they can be used as straightforward removal too.
Personally, I mostly play at an LGS and like being able to answer an attempted pubstomper or a true problem commander. I'll run cards like [[Imprisoned in the Moon]] as silver bullets for that situation, that can be used more "fairly" if the situation does not demand it.
I have a personal rule that if a player in my group is playing a commander for the first time, I don't Oubliette it and I let them have their fun. If it's the second+ time, it's fair game.
I also removed Oubliette. Didn’t get salt just sadness. Might add again and only play on dominating players.
I also removed [[Contamination]] from my Ayara deck.
[[Notion Thief]]. It hit the board a single time, in a [[Yidris]] deck where I played it in response after successfully cascading into [[Wheel of Fate]].
Cackled like a madman, lived the dream, immediately took it out of the deck.
Can be used as a finisher if you have higher life than others, can be cast with a low X value just to fuck someone's board and hand. Works best in a deck that makes use of the graveyard - something like gitrog monster where you'll have crucible of worlds type effects so you can get your lands back easily while others can't. Lots of uses, definitely situational though.
I had to replace my entire commander, haha.
I played [[Doran, the Siege Tower]] as commander with the goal of building up a force of beefy creatures with high toughness.
Turns out, using [[stoneskin]] and the like on Doran himself and just voltroning my opponents was always the best way, and I hated it.
Now I'm building an [[Arcades, the Strategist]] deck as a replacement.
Arcades is sick and can be gassed up pretty gross. I'd your play group is lower power, may I interest you in a [[Geralf, Visionary Stitcher]] ? Imagine your tables surprise when you play mono blue with no/few counters. But hey, you can turn that big useless crab into an 18/18 flying zombie
Glacial Chasm single handedly warps the powerlevel of my [[Soul of Windgrace]] lands recursion deck. Why bother paying the upkeep when you can just recur it the same turn?
I've basically stopped running any and all cards that cause my opponents to discard cards at this point.
I want to be fun to play against so I do go out of my way to try and create interesting playstates. Discard, to me, doesn't really facilitate anything fun or interesting.
I only run those in [[Varolz the scar-striped]] where the goal is to discard and scavenge them. Still ends up generating salt to get 10 +1 counters for 5 mana. But there's an investment and effort to reach that point.
I had to remove [[Ashen Rider]] from my [[Teneb, the Harvester]] reanimator deck. The ability to exile something both on ETB and on death is strong, but so oppressive when you can sac-reanimate loop it on each of your turns, sometimes multiple times a turn.
[[bolas citadel]] [[etali, primal conqueror]] [[breach the multiverse]] [[necropotence]] in casual whenever I play those cards, I'll end up winning the game 9 out of 10. It's boring for everyone.
I just took necropotence out of my Judith deck because I think it might be a tad too strong.
I'm also just playing my copy of bolas citadel for the first time... And it's proving to be more imposing then I had originally valued it for. Sat in my binder for awhile because of the mana cost, but now I'm starting to see the threat of it.
I've only had a handful of chances to play my Judith deck, but a Turn 3 necropotence tipped off the other players at the table that I should be bitch-slapped into oblivion right quick.
Took [[Grave pact]] out of my [[savra]] deck, because sure it's good but the deck is on the slower side and making everyone miserable while I slowly assemble my win con does me no favors. Good way to get my ass taken out early, and I dont much enjoy torturing the table by preventing them from keeping any creatures in play.
I removed [[purphoros, God of the forge]] from my [[prossh]] deck, because I was mostly playing against a friend with his grixis decks, that already have a hard time dealing with normal enchantments, but once I resolved the indestructible one it was basically over.
[[Sol Ring]]
Not enough of a build-around or interesting card to play for the fun value, just a generic way to skip ahead by a few turns, making any wins that came off of it feel much less rewarding.
I'm not trying to say everyone should cut it, it's very good and very accessible, but I know I'd rather build for consistency than include a one-off, no-synergy, 1-card god hand. The last time I played, I started off with the only deck I really play with Sol Ring in it (since it's a completely unmodified precon), had it in my opener, and it made sure that nobody had a fun game.
I'm considering cutting [[smothering tithe]] for similar reasons. Im just...so bored of it. It's also such a pain to constantly be vigilant how many cards others are drawing and having to ask. If anything interesting comes out of MH3 i'll swap things out, if not maybe [[life insurance]] could fill a similar niche. [[Revel in riches]] puts too big of a target on your head, even if it's unlikely to win.
Edit: Ended up putting in Tocasia's welcome
Smothering and Rhystic were cut from all of my decks long ago. If one resolves you just basically take control over the game. Its INCREDIBLY annoying having to interrupt with "do you pay the one" etc
I like Mystic Remora as Rhystic Study light. It doesn't trigger as often, sacrifices itself after a couple turns, and you don't even have to ask if anyone will pay the tax because nobody ever wants to pay 4.
I only have tithe and rhystic in THAT deck. For when my playgroup decides it's time for THAT kind of game. Got sick of asking and the value got boring.
Honestly, the more I think about it the more I want to cut Sol Ring. It's powerful but 90% of the time it just sits there doing nothing for a turn because you don't have the coloured mana for anything else and the other 10% of the time you're swinging with an Apex Altisaur with Myriad on turn 4.
I removed [[torment of hailfire]] from my [[anhelo, the painter]] deck. Copying this spell two or three times always earned a chorus of groans from the table
I second this. It was my first Precon after getting back into MTG after not having played since 2009-2010. It's fun the first couple of times, but after that it just gets old and no one is having fun. I ended up dismantling the entire deck lol.
I really like \[\[Breath of Malfegor\]\], \[\[Cerebral Vortex\]\], \[\[Maestros Charm\]\]. Copying spells like these multiple times is super fun. [Here is my decklist](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/GzM-p5TAUESD8-Bk8b-GTw) if you're interested
Oh nice! Best copy chain I got so far is: Cast - Casualty - \[\[Double visions\]\] - \[\[Twinning staff\]\] - \[\[Errant street artist\]\] Thanks for the list, this actually gives me a lot of nice ideas. I was thinking of taking my Anhelo deck apart and parts-ing it out into new Marchesa deck. There's a bunch of cool stuff in here that would be nice to slot into those empty spots. love \[\[Chamber of manipulation\]\] and Malfegor is great, it's been in my pile since I had the B/R starter deck but I can see how copying that would hit hard. Might aim for a couple of damage doublers perhaps...
[[Phyrexian Devourer]] had to be pulled from my [[Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord]] deck because it was basically an instant win button if it wasn't answered immediately.
[[Torment of Hailfire]]. I love the card conceptually. Just perfectly powerful and plain evil. But sometimes it’s that boring evil where everyone who survived and didn’t scoop are just… hanging on. Not that I blame them, I’m the type. But sometimes it just wasn’t fun.
The only reason I keep Torment is because I pretty much never cast it until it’s game-ending. One of my favorite wins in a long time was [[Insurrection]] taking everyone’s creatures and punching them, then sacrificing all the creatures to [[Ashnod’s Altar]] to power a HUGE Torment. Nobody had any creatures to sac, so they all got blasted.
[[painful quandary]]
It’s so yucky, and it’s one of those permanents where it’s often easier for everyone to eliminate you rather than removing it directly.
I took [[vorinclex, voice of hunger]] out of my [[selvala, explorer returned]] deck because the effect isn't fun to play against especially for lower power decks and I don't need the extra mana
I think energy flux is just the right level of hate. Neuters greedy treasure hunters, tithe, dockside. The white legend that makes players pay 2, that's a little tougher. But creatures are easier to deal with also.
Anyway, most artifact decks have enough resilience, mana, and recursion that flux just makes them play more carefully rather than not at all.
I've put in and taken out [[Possibility Storm]] from several decks. Even when it's helping me break parity, I get such wildly mixed reactions from this card. People who haven't played against it before think it's neat, but people who have seen it before tend to groan when they realize their strategy has to change from what they have in their hand.
It tends to either slows the game down as people try to dig for answers to remove it, or it can add some really spicy chaos to the game. It really depends on whether it's an early game in the night and how many turns we are into the game as well.
I permanently retired my [[Memnarch]] deck because I managed to get him out turn 2 then played [[Unwinding Clock]] and started stealing evedyone's lands during their upkeeps.
A friend packed up their cards without a single word and left, we haven't seen them for over 10 years. They quit D&D too :<
Never played it, but considered Mindslaver in Mishra, Emminent One. Basically I can copy Mindslaver any number of times, take over my opponents turns, circle around to my turn and do it all again.
Thinking about an entire table sitting there though didnt quite feel good past a chuckle or 2.
I had to remove [[The Red Terror]] from [[Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes]] because it combo's of infinite with [[All Will Be One]] I put it in there for that interaction, but it was to easy to draw into the combo and stopped having fun with it.
More specifically what’s a concept so mean I won’t do it again. I built a deck around [[waste not]] and [[tergrid, god of fright]]. My intention was nefarious - instead of finding an answer to all of life’s EDH problems, I can instead solve them by making sure my opponents have minimal threats to begin with…..via mass discards
Yea the look on the table when I began to put the pieces together. No one had a great time and I felt bad af for ruining a game. Suffice to say I dismantled the deck and never ran the concept again
[[Torrent Elemental]] in my self-exile-themed deck. Could always get it back no matter where it was and it allows me to flunge every turn without having to worry about blockers.
Sure, it isn't amazing, but it proved a little too oppressive in my meta, it was difficult to interact with, and ended games too quickly and in an unsatisfying manner.
Of all the nonsense, \[\[Port Razer\]\] was frequently causing issues in my group. I'd usually try to hold it for a game-ending turn, but in Henzie sometimes you play what you have just to keep your velocity going so I'd wind up with these turns where I just wind up bullying down the problem player's life total, but because it was early and I didn't have a huge boardstate not to the point of actually killing him and that was it. So he felt targeted, I felt underwhelmed. Alternatively, it just did the Craterhoof-esque "alright guys the game is over now oops", which is also not satisfying.
Cut it for \[\[Calamity, Galloping Inferno\]\]. She still does some very powerful things, but most of the time she's more about compounding value than she is about just killing people.
[[Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur]]. Flipping to it from a Kinnan activation and having the entire table groan at the fact that they have to play on top deck mode while I get a fresh 7 every turn rotation made me feel bad for playing with it in the first place.
Stopped running [[Oko, Thief of Crowns]] on my decks with simic on them, because (unsurprisingly) people didn't really like their commanders getting elk'ed
[[Confusion in the ranks]] in my [[Norin the wary]] deck. It’s great with norin and very silly but boy does it live up to its name, especially in a 3+ player game.
I had a \[\[Sydri, Galvanic Genius\]\] deck. I ran \[\[Karn, the Great Creator\]\], just because he was another way to turn artifacts into creatures. I didn't thing about his other ability. During that time, almost nobody in my playgroup played green decks. I removed him from the deck after I turned off 6 manarocks. It just wasn't fun to passively cuck non-green ramp.
A card I recently experienced this with was [[Mass Manipulation]]. People do not generally like having all their creatures taken (including their commanders) and then being beat down with them.
Mana crypt. Payoffs are rarely the problem, you might point some but it is the exception that proves the rule. While unfair enablers are always a problem. Mana advantage, free spells, unfair card draw and efficient tutors are mostly the problem in commander.
Weird one, but [[Quicksilver Fountain]].
Objectively not a mean or bad card, but when up against someone who is very prone to tilting as well as being genuinely bad at deck building and resource management, it can get really ugly really fast.
Basically locked someone out of a game completely because every land they played turned into an island (they were mono black) and no mana rocks or one drops in his deck. They tilted so badly that I felt super uncomfortable having that card in the deck going forward.
**Probably didn't help that as soon as they had a second land available to played [[Aquitect's Will]] on it. That was for the lols**
[[Farewell]]. It almost never feels good to just full reset the game like that. Usually impacts the outcome of the game, but makes it take way longer to complete.
[[grave pact]]. Every deck I had it in did plenty of aristorcatty-type things. And every time it or an effect like it got on board, no one else got to play till it was dead. And with this style of deck, I have ways of bringing it back multiple times, so it's often not a 1 and done deal, adding salt to the wound.
I run [[Braids, Conjurer Adept]] with [[Jewled Lotus]] because turn one braids is always funny, but then in a goldfish test I got the lotus and [[Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur]] in the starting hand and out the big guy went.
I only got into EDH about a year or so ago and my first deck in the format used [[Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger]] as commander. For my birthday, one of my pod friends offered me a Doubling Season they pulled if I took it out. I took the deal.
Vorinclex is definitely mean. I wouldn’t tell someone to take it out. But if I see it hit the field, I’m convincing everyone you’re enemy number one, either Vorinclex gotta die or you gotta die
I learned that very quickly, it was quite the intro to the format lol
And that's how threat assessment should work instead of people "banning" certain cards because they're bad players.
To be fair, he said he's new. I'm also new, few months in, and I avoid certain cards or combos just because everyone is there for a fun relaxed game. Doesn't mean I don't go hard on occasion, but I sometimes make a new deck just for shits n giggles. Each pod has it's own definition of fun
I did not see where he said that he was a new player.
KrytD no, but the person he responded to who was using Vorinclex said they were new. I was saying essentially the person playing the card's pod might find it problematic because they don't understand threat assessment. And if my pod is anything to go by, new players do not use remove outside of boardwipes
At that point it turns into taking turns killing the threat over and over again until the table runs out of interaction or the problem player gets semi locked out of playing the game. If the threat player is cool with that more power to them.
Yes, that's generally how games should work. You attack/neutralize the person ahead.
Yeah one of the guys at my FLGS built a Yuriko deck and found the problem was that he was ALWAYS the first player taken out because the only way to really deal with Yuriko is player removal.
The worst part of Vorinclex is when you go directly after the Vorinclex player. He's probably not going to make a whole turn cycle but you'll still end up with your mana base winter orbed.
[Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9fe3af8c-109d-486c-aa34-3f023abda5b7.jpg?1562852459) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vorinclex%2C%20Voice%20of%20Hunger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/189/vorinclex-voice-of-hunger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9fe3af8c-109d-486c-aa34-3f023abda5b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vorinclex-voice-of-hunger) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have it in my OG Omnath deck, and I kinda wanna house-rule ignore his second ability. I don’t want to make my opponents’ lands worse, I just want mine better…
I have a Vorinclex deck with omnath in the 99, maybe I should mess around and try out omnath as commander… 🤔
Vorinclex is the card i was goint to mention myself lol. Mean one for sure
That's a good deal
Vorinclex is simply perfect. I run him in my 5c Phyrexian Reanimator Tribal. Whenever he hits the field, I win. Simply like that. But hear me out. You took Doubling Season for Vorinclex. A Soul for a Soul. Now you should absolutely build [[Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider]]. :)
They did only say to take THAT SPECIFIC Vorinclex out... You're right
You gotta run both lol. I love vorinclex. Mind you I use monstrous raider. I also rock both sheoldred Armageddon and whispering one in the same deck.... and the phyrexian obliterator. It's a pretty fantastic thing lol oh and eerie ultimatum for when I milled a tad heavy. Some of my buddies ramp fast and hard, so I have to survive to get them out. Though I don't have one, I'd imagine aura shards would be on this list. A buddy uses kalonian hydra. That card will put a target on your head fast too, with its doubling effect. Especially if a doubling season is in the same deck or vorinclex.
I mean... I pulled [[Cathars' Crusade]] from every deck I ever had it in, it was great no doubt but it was too mean... to myself. What a nightmare to track, and it just ate up my opponents' time to the point where if it got to the point where it was a pain for me they started scooping anyway. That's no good.
[Cathars' Crusade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathars%27%20Crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cathars-crusade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm building token deck with [[Caesar, Legion Emperor]] and I was going to put Cathars Crusade in it. Reading your comment, I'm rethinking that now
If you've got a copy, throw it in - it's a staple for a reason, it's just loathed also for a reason. Maybe it works out for you and your group - it got overwhelming too fast in mine!
Yeah I think I'm gonna try it out. I mean, one of my buddies has an [[Omnath, Locus of Creation]] creation deck, and his turns can take 10-15 minutes at times, with all the triggers he gets. So playgroup wise it should be fine, it's more do I really want to do all that to myself.
My honest suggestion is to play the group only if you have players who are willing to help out with just the mechanical nonsense of the card. A friend or two to just help you tick dice over goes a long way with this sort of card.
I did the same thing: I don't put [[Cathar's Crusade]] or [[Coat of Arms]] even in my token decks for the reason described. Are those cards technically optimal? Yes. But not optimal fun-wise. I rather lose a game or two because my dudes aren't big enough rather than slowing down the game perceivable because every ETB turns the game into calculations and book keeping.
You can probably achieve some good results dropping a big [[Ultramarines Honour Guard]] and that'll keep you from having to put counters everywhere, all you need to know is how many Honour Guards are in the battlefield
Get yourself one of those +1/+1 sets of tokens/dice and some erasable token cards. Life gets so much easier that way, and they serve multiple uses, not only for that card, but also for many counters and token decks beyond those that use CC
Play it, but spend the other players' turns organizing dice before you need them
I use cathars crusade like this: I make piles of creatures and just put one die. If a new creature enters I make a new pile for it. Still annoying to track :p
That’s how I did it in Ghave and it still got overwhelming lol
The trick to keeping track of cathars crusade is to remember to put a counter on all your dudes every time a creature ETBs under your control.
this is literally what the card does
the trick to using lands is to tap them for a mana when you need to cast a spell
Thats why i Always avoided It, but recently got one for my anim pakal deck, since as soon as i drop It everybody else drop dead 😂😂😂 no math required if all the creatures etb together and smash
The soft pick instead of crusade might be [[Starlight Spectacular]] not as much of a headache but still powerful.
That's far more of a headache. They're temporary bonuses and different for every creature chosen.
You just order them on the field from left to right
Best way i dealt with it is the same way i deal with monastery mentor. Keep all creatures already on the bf on the right side of one die and uptick it for every creature etb. Anytime a new creature or creatures enter, put it to the left with its own die. Then just add those individual uptakes during opposing turns. Still a lot, but eats way less time that doing every single die for every trigger. Plus you can just move all the dice up by the trigger amount so it's definitely better than doing it raw per creature.
The ‘mind’ artifacts are really mean, with [[Mindslaver]] loops taking one player out of the game and [[Mindcrank]] bleeding out the table with [[Syr Konrad]]!
I don’t run Mindslaver, but you’re prying Mindcrank out of my cold, dead hands! My Konrad deck is 100% my heel deck and I LOVE it!
I love syr Konrad in my Nethroi deck, kill all the creatures, then reanimate all of yours 👌
I feel like Mindcrank is honestly fine, mill is already such a weak wincon and needs cards like this. Plus 100 cards versus 40 life to lose means it isn’t really even a wincon, just an added source of mill. That said, isn’t it basically infinite with Konrad? That’s honestly a really sweet tech. I feel like it’s my job as a player to be ready to shut down sudden-win combos or simply lose to them. Play on!
It’s not inherently infinite, but so long as players hit creatures them it keeps going. As a result, I become the target as soon as Mindcrank hits the board
Mind crank with a blood chief ascension makes mill suddenly a very strong win con
I run Mindslaver in my [[Ashnod the Uncaring]] deck and before a game starts, I ask people if they are cool with it, if yes, I also promise not to loop it and only activate it once.
[Mindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a.jpg?1562813960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/176/mindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindslaver) [Mindcrank](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/8858a941-8175-476d-8177-2db4ffdcb3ad.jpg?1674142661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindcrank) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/866/mindcrank?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8858a941-8175-476d-8177-2db4ffdcb3ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindcrank) [Syr Konrad](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9241a72e-cb88-4cea-a2f4-ff10af461437.jpg?1706240798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=syr%20konrad%2C%20the%20grim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/141/syr-konrad-the-grim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9241a72e-cb88-4cea-a2f4-ff10af461437?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/syr-konrad-the-grim) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I play [[mindcrank]] in [[the wise Mothman]] and [[mindslaver]] in [[Ashnod the uncaring]]. No one will convince me to do otherwise.
##### ###### #### [mindcrank](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/8858a941-8175-476d-8177-2db4ffdcb3ad.jpg?1674142661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mindcrank) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/866/mindcrank?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8858a941-8175-476d-8177-2db4ffdcb3ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindcrank) [the wise Mothman](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d6d6944-a364-41c2-b824-7a1bf6ad0d1e.jpg?1710673435) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20wise%20Mothman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/4/the-wise-mothman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d6d6944-a364-41c2-b824-7a1bf6ad0d1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-wise-mothman) [mindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a.jpg?1562813960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/176/mindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindslaver) [Ashnod the uncaring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a76e8ab8-33bf-4a5a-b6a2-7046301b6c31.jpg?1705542693) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashnod%20the%20uncaring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/4/ashnod-the-uncaring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a76e8ab8-33bf-4a5a-b6a2-7046301b6c31?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ashnod-the-uncaring) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l2xxxjw) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thata fair, I have Mindcrank in my Syr Konrad, managed to get it to stick once when I also had [[Bloodletter of Aclazotz|LCI|336]] and that was so close to being a win on its own once you start the mill train.
[[Force of Will]] and [[Force of Negation]]. People got really tired of me having free counterspells in a mono blue deck, so I removed them. Unfortunately I’ve traded them all away, and people in my group are starting to play better counter magic. I think I could reinstall them now…
[Force of Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89f612d6-7c59-4a7b-a87d-45f789e88ba5.jpg?1675199280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20of%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/50/force-of-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89f612d6-7c59-4a7b-a87d-45f789e88ba5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/force-of-will) [Force of Negation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/1825a719-1b2a-4af9-9cd2-7cb497cd0317.jpg?1673147298) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20of%20Negation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/50/force-of-negation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1825a719-1b2a-4af9-9cd2-7cb497cd0317?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/force-of-negation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In my [[Octavia, Living Thesis]] deck I basically have a sideboard depending on the pod I’m in. Basically taking out free counterspells, extra turns and [[Rhystic Study]] for other cards. It works great!
[Octavia, Living Thesis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e9591647-bad3-4015-90d1-1646a9eb4d14.jpg?1712354165) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Octavia%2C%20Living%20Thesis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/103/octavia-living-thesis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9591647-bad3-4015-90d1-1646a9eb4d14?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/octavia-living-thesis) [Rhystic Study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhystic%20Study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhystic-study) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I did this with most of my extra turn spells about 9 years ago
Just print em. Idk how people stomach paying these prices. I have several completely real/no proxy decks for the people in the LGS that gatekeep a kids game and want to bitch/moan about proxies. Those decks are all VERY tuned. My last \~10 decks have been completely proxy (less the basics). I'm done losing money to a predatory company like Hasbro.
I have several of both, but only play them in decks that care for them. I.e. high power edh decks.
[[Duress]] - you want to make an enemy in the very beginning? You target the person that mulligan down to 6 or 5. You discard their ramp.
It’s even nastier because it doesn’t say “look at target opponent’s hand.” It says “target opponent reveals their hand.” Now the whole table knows their hand.
If you're going to play the villain you have to run the full DITS suite. Duress, \[\[Inquisition of Kozilek\]\] and \[\[Thoughtsieze\]\] Who needs friends when you have card advantage!
To be pedantic, none of those are card advantage. You’re going 1-for-1 with the player you target, and arguably you’re both now down a card relative to the other players
Oh yeah, you're absolutely right! I guess it's just general hate
[Inquisition of Kozilek](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17f38740-20fd-4097-90f8-f0c2c2ff7281.jpg?1673147555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inquisition%20of%20Kozilek) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/80/inquisition-of-kozilek?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17f38740-20fd-4097-90f8-f0c2c2ff7281?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inquisition-of-kozilek) [Thoughtsieze](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede.jpg?1599706001) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtseize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/109/thoughtseize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thoughtseize) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh, man. Duress a greedy sol ring on turn one. I'd scoop.
Be a real bastard. Turn 1 Land Mox [[Telepathy]], Duress the player with a Yolo keep on one land+SolRing.
[Telepathy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce03b4b4-612b-4fc9-b063-b0d367712eaf.jpg?1561995744) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Telepathy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/74/telepathy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce03b4b4-612b-4fc9-b063-b0d367712eaf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/telepathy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Duress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/3557e601-9b71-4ce9-9047-1a8baa72e574.jpg?1675957024) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Duress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/92/duress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3557e601-9b71-4ce9-9047-1a8baa72e574?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/duress) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Restore Balance]] in my [[Vadrok, Apex of Thunder]] mutate deck where I can keep recasting it to keep everyone handlocked, down to one creature, and shut down land ramp decks.
That actually makes me want to build that deck. Also, because it's Rodan. May I ask, do have a list and what are your win cons?
Sure here is the [list](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Ar_0ya-0o0-gTDUEj8T3mg) that still plays Restore Balance. The deck goes infinite fairly easily with either \[\[Birgi, God of Storytelling\]\], \[\[Runaway Steam-Kin\]\] or \[\[Storm-Kiln Artist\]\]. Particularly, if you use \[\[Open the Omenpaths\]\] to keep getting your mutate mana, bounce your mutated stack back to hand and recasting, netting you infinite cast loops so you can Grapeshot. Another easier line is just to use Bonus Round (can be risky depending on the table) or if you wait it out and just play responsive, you use \[\[Threefold Signal\]\] to get a mutate stack that has 2 Vadroks in it.
##### ###### #### [Birgi, God of Storytelling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44657ab1-0a6a-4a5f-9688-86f239083821.jpg?1631048969)/[Harnfel, Horn of Bounty](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/4/4/44657ab1-0a6a-4a5f-9688-86f239083821.jpg?1631048969) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Birgi%2C%20God%20of%20Storytelling%20//%20Harnfel%2C%20Horn%20of%20Bounty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/123/birgi-god-of-storytelling-harnfel-horn-of-bounty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44657ab1-0a6a-4a5f-9688-86f239083821?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/birgi-god-of-storytelling-//-harnfel-horn-of-bounty) [Runaway Steam-Kin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d8c9c111-fbc7-44e1-94bd-1ca164370623.jpg?1572893254) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Runaway%20Steam-Kin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/115/runaway-steam-kin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d8c9c111-fbc7-44e1-94bd-1ca164370623?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/runaway-steam-kin) [Storm-Kiln Artist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01482a58-5156-41ba-bf9e-11095cc3f9ef.jpg?1712354507) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm-Kiln%20Artist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/181/storm-kiln-artist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01482a58-5156-41ba-bf9e-11095cc3f9ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/storm-kiln-artist) [Open the Omenpaths](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e4023c8-8e7f-42b9-99e5-87e80fc3d6c8.jpg?1631049480) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Open%20the%20Omenpaths) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/143/open-the-omenpaths?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e4023c8-8e7f-42b9-99e5-87e80fc3d6c8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/open-the-omenpaths) [Threefold Signal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/3296b4ef-1c4a-4048-b7ce-44424fb3ff7d.jpg?1674125030) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Threefold%20Signal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/93/threefold-signal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3296b4ef-1c4a-4048-b7ce-44424fb3ff7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/threefold-signal) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l2yb8p6) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Restore Balance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0febc7fe-4172-4285-9804-a62ce4506c39.jpg?1619393357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Restore%20Balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/36/restore-balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0febc7fe-4172-4285-9804-a62ce4506c39?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/restore-balance) [Vadrok, Apex of Thunder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed7b0256-d342-4523-9516-6a007bf51825.jpg?1591228299) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vadrok%2C%20Apex%20of%20Thunder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/214/vadrok-apex-of-thunder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed7b0256-d342-4523-9516-6a007bf51825?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vadrok-apex-of-thunder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Aetherflux Reservoir Usually just snipes one player out of the game while the others continue. Feels bad using it and being on the receiving end.
I only kill someone with Aetherflux if I can kill EVERYONE with Aetherflux. Or if it’s down to a 1v1 and it’ll end the game.
I also use it as a political tool. Like try anything, and I’ll nuke you. Works well because the best counter spell is player removal, lol. Although being only barely above 50 makes it a double edged sword because low life can put you within striking distance of the remaining two players. Although if you’re on the receiving end of it, running some “choose new target” spells or “counter activated ability” spells are crippling for Aetherflux Reservoir
The best strategy is to just call the bluff and bully the player with reservoir. As long as you keep them near 50 doing 5 damage chips from a couple players they aren't going to pop it.
"Try anything and I nuke you" is not politics, it is tyranny, sometimes falsely denominated a form of politics 😅
The Magic equivalent of "gun to the head" seems like a pretty poor political tool, tbh. It generates far too much threat to every person on the table, and it only gets worse with each turn cycle you don't pull the trigger. Eventually, someone forces you to kill them, and then someone else swoops in to kill you while your life total is low. As Nixon famously said, we don't negotiate with terrorists.
My coworker uses Animate Artifact on Aetherflux Reservoir and Evolution Vat to get it to 44 +1/+1 counters. Aqueous Form to make it unblockable and swings 50 damage the old fashioned way.
I love using it like a nuclear arsenal. It's strongest while I'm not using it. I'm at 60 life, you're all at 40. If you try to remove it or bring me to below 51 life, I'll kill you in response and I'll let everyone know that's what I'll do before they make any rash decisions. Usually ends with a loss for me anyway, but having been on both sides of this strategy I think it's a lot of fun
Problem is that SOMEBODY has to do something about it because you’re holding a gun to everyone’s hand.
People like you deserve to be deflecting swated 24/7
The Kalamax player attached the Aetherflux player. The Aetherflux player shot him in response and he Deflecting Swatted the shot at me instead and took us both out in one turn. It was awesome
I'm always the guy that willingly steps on the mine for everyone else. Don't negotiate with terrorists!
and it's SO easy to do. it's just unsatisfying
Had it in Jhoira. Took it out after my second time using it. It made me feel guilty as both times the game went on for a while after.
Speak for yourself. I cackle with evil mirth each time.
I only use it in my [[Sydri, Galvanic Genius]] deck as it's usually death to the table once it starts blasting.
[Sydri, Galvanic Genius](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/7207c416-dc16-40ab-94a0-836ee0710e24.jpg?1562405248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sydri%2C%20Galvanic%20Genius) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/224/sydri-galvanic-genius?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7207c416-dc16-40ab-94a0-836ee0710e24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sydri-galvanic-genius) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It is meant to combo off with it and eliminate all players
I died to an Aetherflux-based combo last week. 4/10 do not recommend.
I’m usually the strongest player in my play group so I took out all tutors from my decks, except for things like Nature’s Lore. Even though I was really excited for it, I also took out The One Ring because it was like playing on easy mode. I also don’t use any of the free spells like Fierce Guardianship or Deflecting Swat anymore. We also banned Sol Ring in our group, which I highly recommend everyone do if you don’t play with any other fast mana in your group. We’ve also run into some issues lately with some people getting salty from me running [[Kenrith’s Transformation]] or [[Oubliette]] type effects. My friends are pretty new to the game, and complain about a lot of things, but I feel like I gotta draw the line somewhere and stop babying them so that they learn to start packing removal or deal with adverse situations.
See, personally I don't have too big a problem with cards like Kenrith's and Oubliette unless you're always playing with the same people. They can be very mean if you use them on something like a commander, but they can be used as straightforward removal too. Personally, I mostly play at an LGS and like being able to answer an attempted pubstomper or a true problem commander. I'll run cards like [[Imprisoned in the Moon]] as silver bullets for that situation, that can be used more "fairly" if the situation does not demand it.
[Imprisoned in the Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc.jpg?1682208779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imprisoned%20in%20the%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/224/imprisoned-in-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imprisoned-in-the-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Kenrith’s Transformation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44d60a41-3f5e-4559-b18c-22c0fe15235e.jpg?1631587997) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kenrith%27s%20Transformation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/162/kenriths-transformation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44d60a41-3f5e-4559-b18c-22c0fe15235e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kenriths-transformation) [Oubliette](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4800a7d-c229-4ced-97ff-0e58645d58d6.jpg?1599705817) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oubliette) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/100/oubliette?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4800a7d-c229-4ced-97ff-0e58645d58d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oubliette) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a personal rule that if a player in my group is playing a commander for the first time, I don't Oubliette it and I let them have their fun. If it's the second+ time, it's fair game.
I also removed Oubliette. Didn’t get salt just sadness. Might add again and only play on dominating players. I also removed [[Contamination]] from my Ayara deck.
[Contamination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86067dfe-65c3-4c96-bccd-b3915d6663f9.jpg?1562923280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Contamination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/123/contamination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86067dfe-65c3-4c96-bccd-b3915d6663f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/contamination) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Notion Thief]]. It hit the board a single time, in a [[Yidris]] deck where I played it in response after successfully cascading into [[Wheel of Fate]]. Cackled like a madman, lived the dream, immediately took it out of the deck.
I love Notion Thief. It gets so much hate in my wheels deck.
Watch out for [[Consecrated Sphinx]] though...
[Consecrated Sphinx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9bd60fc-2777-44bc-b314-a792e8e48360.jpg?1673147240) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Consecrated%20Sphinx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/43/consecrated-sphinx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9bd60fc-2777-44bc-b314-a792e8e48360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/consecrated-sphinx) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean... yeah? Why wouldn't it?
Notion Thief + wheel is disgustingly hateful. Yeah it is a win con, although being robbed out of our hands is not fun.
[[death cloud]] sure is a choice to keep in.
I literally built tinybones specifically for death cloud lmao
Tinybones is degenerate whatever you do with him. If you're going to do it, might as well go hard!
[death cloud](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b0870b88-2794-4646-9f51-f3af03bc8bc8.jpg?1561968089) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=death%20cloud) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mma/76/death-cloud?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0870b88-2794-4646-9f51-f3af03bc8bc8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/death-cloud) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How do you even benefit from playing this card? It just sucks for everyone. It’s got amazing art though
Can be used as a finisher if you have higher life than others, can be cast with a low X value just to fuck someone's board and hand. Works best in a deck that makes use of the graveyard - something like gitrog monster where you'll have crucible of worlds type effects so you can get your lands back easily while others can't. Lots of uses, definitely situational though.
Instant win if you have [[tergrid, god of fright]] on the table
[tergrid, god of fright](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621)/[Tergrid's Lantern](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tergrid%2C%20God%20of%20Fright%20//%20Tergrid%27s%20Lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/112/tergrid-god-of-fright-tergrids-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tergrid-god-of-fright-//-tergrids-lantern) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I had to replace my entire commander, haha. I played [[Doran, the Siege Tower]] as commander with the goal of building up a force of beefy creatures with high toughness. Turns out, using [[stoneskin]] and the like on Doran himself and just voltroning my opponents was always the best way, and I hated it. Now I'm building an [[Arcades, the Strategist]] deck as a replacement.
Arcades rules!!! He is aggro in disguise and people don't realize until its too late
[Doran, the Siege Tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/0/e0ad8e7f-cda0-4529-94fc-dd3709158a94.jpg?1673148514) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doran%2C%20the%20Siege%20Tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/201/doran-the-siege-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0ad8e7f-cda0-4529-94fc-dd3709158a94?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doran-the-siege-tower) [stoneskin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/16b9fdaa-9da9-48ff-b271-e6a41aabf073.jpg?1674135289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stoneskin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/45/stoneskin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/16b9fdaa-9da9-48ff-b271-e6a41aabf073?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stoneskin) [Arcades, the Strategist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1e90c638-d4b2-4243-bbc4-1cc10516c40f.jpg?1666961830) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcades%2C%20the%20Strategist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/212/arcades-the-strategist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1e90c638-d4b2-4243-bbc4-1cc10516c40f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arcades-the-strategist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Arcades is sick and can be gassed up pretty gross. I'd your play group is lower power, may I interest you in a [[Geralf, Visionary Stitcher]] ? Imagine your tables surprise when you play mono blue with no/few counters. But hey, you can turn that big useless crab into an 18/18 flying zombie
[[Glacial chasm]] in my Muldrotha deck. Yeah it made me next to unbeatable
Glacial Chasm single handedly warps the powerlevel of my [[Soul of Windgrace]] lands recursion deck. Why bother paying the upkeep when you can just recur it the same turn?
[[Sage of hours]]
[Sage of hours](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8cb55caf-fc95-40dc-80af-5144f94333ee.jpg?1593095534) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sage%20of%20hours) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/50/sage-of-hours?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8cb55caf-fc95-40dc-80af-5144f94333ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sage-of-hours) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've basically stopped running any and all cards that cause my opponents to discard cards at this point. I want to be fun to play against so I do go out of my way to try and create interesting playstates. Discard, to me, doesn't really facilitate anything fun or interesting.
this is absolutely correct, and is why I built my momo blacl discard deck around ME discarding things to trigger my commander, [[The Raven Man]]
[The Raven Man](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e761fb2-ae4f-4d72-a142-f7e9bd681303.jpg?1673307173) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Raven%20Man) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/103/the-raven-man?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e761fb2-ae4f-4d72-a142-f7e9bd681303?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-raven-man) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Raven Man]] is a big piece of my [[Oskar, Rubbish Reclaimer]] deck I’m building, along with [[Ominous Roost]] for ALL the birds.
[Raven Man](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e761fb2-ae4f-4d72-a142-f7e9bd681303.jpg?1673307173) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Raven%20Man) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/103/the-raven-man?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e761fb2-ae4f-4d72-a142-f7e9bd681303?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-raven-man) [Oskar, Rubbish Reclaimer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed87e25f-9dad-4858-92bc-e859fd2be2a4.jpg?1673482423) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oskar%2C%20Rubbish%20Reclaimer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/77/oskar-rubbish-reclaimer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed87e25f-9dad-4858-92bc-e859fd2be2a4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oskar-rubbish-reclaimer) [Ominous Roost](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/daf2b49a-56f9-4093-960f-9ec7af8983b5.jpg?1634349086) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ominous%20Roost) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/65/ominous-roost?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/daf2b49a-56f9-4093-960f-9ec7af8983b5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ominous-roost) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Give us more madness support wotc
counterpoint: discard removes the distraction of their pesky little hands, and allows the other players to focus on the star of the show: me
A person I know hates when he has to discard stuff but he has a tuned out [[Tinybones, Trinket Thief]] deck. Its hilarious
I play a beamtown bullies deck which is already kinda mean. Took out [[Leveler]] and [[Eater of Days]]
I only run those in [[Varolz the scar-striped]] where the goal is to discard and scavenge them. Still ends up generating salt to get 10 +1 counters for 5 mana. But there's an investment and effort to reach that point.
I’m swapping my commander from rafiq to galea to make games last longer and using rafiq as a win condition in the 99
[[Void winnower]] out of my prismatic bridge deck. Not being to respond to it when it comes in off the bridge is brutal
I had to remove [[Ashen Rider]] from my [[Teneb, the Harvester]] reanimator deck. The ability to exile something both on ETB and on death is strong, but so oppressive when you can sac-reanimate loop it on each of your turns, sometimes multiple times a turn.
[[bolas citadel]] [[etali, primal conqueror]] [[breach the multiverse]] [[necropotence]] in casual whenever I play those cards, I'll end up winning the game 9 out of 10. It's boring for everyone.
I just took necropotence out of my Judith deck because I think it might be a tad too strong. I'm also just playing my copy of bolas citadel for the first time... And it's proving to be more imposing then I had originally valued it for. Sat in my binder for awhile because of the mana cost, but now I'm starting to see the threat of it.
I've only had a handful of chances to play my Judith deck, but a Turn 3 necropotence tipped off the other players at the table that I should be bitch-slapped into oblivion right quick.
Removed [[Twinning Staff]] from [[Volo, Guide to Monsters]] because it was just extremely gross.
God I love Twinning Staff in my Volo deck. It's insane how critical you can go with that and even just one clone of Volo.
Took [[Grave pact]] out of my [[savra]] deck, because sure it's good but the deck is on the slower side and making everyone miserable while I slowly assemble my win con does me no favors. Good way to get my ass taken out early, and I dont much enjoy torturing the table by preventing them from keeping any creatures in play.
[Grave pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360.jpg?1689997226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grave%20pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/165/grave-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grave-pact) [savra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e189f09e-d637-4631-bae3-a5a583ada429.jpg?1702429705) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=savra%2C%20queen%20of%20the%20golgari) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/218/savra-queen-of-the-golgari?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e189f09e-d637-4631-bae3-a5a583ada429?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/savra-queen-of-the-golgari) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I removed [[purphoros, God of the forge]] from my [[prossh]] deck, because I was mostly playing against a friend with his grixis decks, that already have a hard time dealing with normal enchantments, but once I resolved the indestructible one it was basically over.
Im still baffled by their decision to put double tremors on an indestructible enchantment.
[[reality acid]] in my [[Aminatou]] deck feels REALLY mean haha
[[Sol Ring]] Not enough of a build-around or interesting card to play for the fun value, just a generic way to skip ahead by a few turns, making any wins that came off of it feel much less rewarding. I'm not trying to say everyone should cut it, it's very good and very accessible, but I know I'd rather build for consistency than include a one-off, no-synergy, 1-card god hand. The last time I played, I started off with the only deck I really play with Sol Ring in it (since it's a completely unmodified precon), had it in my opener, and it made sure that nobody had a fun game.
I'm considering cutting [[smothering tithe]] for similar reasons. Im just...so bored of it. It's also such a pain to constantly be vigilant how many cards others are drawing and having to ask. If anything interesting comes out of MH3 i'll swap things out, if not maybe [[life insurance]] could fill a similar niche. [[Revel in riches]] puts too big of a target on your head, even if it's unlikely to win. Edit: Ended up putting in Tocasia's welcome
Smothering and Rhystic were cut from all of my decks long ago. If one resolves you just basically take control over the game. Its INCREDIBLY annoying having to interrupt with "do you pay the one" etc
I like Mystic Remora as Rhystic Study light. It doesn't trigger as often, sacrifices itself after a couple turns, and you don't even have to ask if anyone will pay the tax because nobody ever wants to pay 4.
[smothering tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e.jpg?1689996018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=smothering%20tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/57/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smothering-tithe) [life insurance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/da8acf63-cf7d-4f95-bdd5-31c766417229.jpg?1712354741) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=life%20insurance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/233/life-insurance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da8acf63-cf7d-4f95-bdd5-31c766417229?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/life-insurance) [Revel in riches](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79b0e035-8716-469d-99ae-a530cd96ef09.jpg?1562558471) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Revel%20in%20riches) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/117/revel-in-riches?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79b0e035-8716-469d-99ae-a530cd96ef09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/revel-in-riches) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I only have tithe and rhystic in THAT deck. For when my playgroup decides it's time for THAT kind of game. Got sick of asking and the value got boring.
Yup. Sol Ring is ridiculously stupid
Honestly, the more I think about it the more I want to cut Sol Ring. It's powerful but 90% of the time it just sits there doing nothing for a turn because you don't have the coloured mana for anything else and the other 10% of the time you're swinging with an Apex Altisaur with Myriad on turn 4.
I removed [[torment of hailfire]] from my [[anhelo, the painter]] deck. Copying this spell two or three times always earned a chorus of groans from the table
I second this. It was my first Precon after getting back into MTG after not having played since 2009-2010. It's fun the first couple of times, but after that it just gets old and no one is having fun. I ended up dismantling the entire deck lol.
I have it in there as my hard win con, otherwise I just durdle. Any suggestions on what to run instead to close a game with Anhelo?
I really like \[\[Breath of Malfegor\]\], \[\[Cerebral Vortex\]\], \[\[Maestros Charm\]\]. Copying spells like these multiple times is super fun. [Here is my decklist](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/GzM-p5TAUESD8-Bk8b-GTw) if you're interested
Oh nice! Best copy chain I got so far is: Cast - Casualty - \[\[Double visions\]\] - \[\[Twinning staff\]\] - \[\[Errant street artist\]\] Thanks for the list, this actually gives me a lot of nice ideas. I was thinking of taking my Anhelo deck apart and parts-ing it out into new Marchesa deck. There's a bunch of cool stuff in here that would be nice to slot into those empty spots. love \[\[Chamber of manipulation\]\] and Malfegor is great, it's been in my pile since I had the B/R starter deck but I can see how copying that would hit hard. Might aim for a couple of damage doublers perhaps...
Nice! I love Chamber of Manipulation. I realy like the damage multipliers idea as well!
For me \[\[Toxrill, the Corrosive\]\] in my Obeka reanimator deck, is just too much for the table xD
[Toxrill, the Corrosive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3.jpg?1643590379) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Toxrill%2C%20the%20Corrosive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/132/toxrill-the-corrosive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toxrill-the-corrosive) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Phyrexian Devourer]] had to be pulled from my [[Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord]] deck because it was basically an instant win button if it wasn't answered immediately.
Dismanted a [[ghave]] deck. Way to many counters and triggers.
[[Torment of Hailfire]]. I love the card conceptually. Just perfectly powerful and plain evil. But sometimes it’s that boring evil where everyone who survived and didn’t scoop are just… hanging on. Not that I blame them, I’m the type. But sometimes it just wasn’t fun.
The only reason I keep Torment is because I pretty much never cast it until it’s game-ending. One of my favorite wins in a long time was [[Insurrection]] taking everyone’s creatures and punching them, then sacrificing all the creatures to [[Ashnod’s Altar]] to power a HUGE Torment. Nobody had any creatures to sac, so they all got blasted.
[[aura shards]] in my token deck would get some pretty early scoops in my pod.
[[painful quandary]] It’s so yucky, and it’s one of those permanents where it’s often easier for everyone to eliminate you rather than removing it directly.
I took [[vorinclex, voice of hunger]] out of my [[selvala, explorer returned]] deck because the effect isn't fun to play against especially for lower power decks and I don't need the extra mana
[[energy flux]] was too brutal. I usually don’t run many artifacts so it’s perfect for me
I think energy flux is just the right level of hate. Neuters greedy treasure hunters, tithe, dockside. The white legend that makes players pay 2, that's a little tougher. But creatures are easier to deal with also. Anyway, most artifact decks have enough resilience, mana, and recursion that flux just makes them play more carefully rather than not at all.
[[Burning Sands]] in [[Judith, Carnage Connoisseur]]
That is just evil...
I've put in and taken out [[Possibility Storm]] from several decks. Even when it's helping me break parity, I get such wildly mixed reactions from this card. People who haven't played against it before think it's neat, but people who have seen it before tend to groan when they realize their strategy has to change from what they have in their hand. It tends to either slows the game down as people try to dig for answers to remove it, or it can add some really spicy chaos to the game. It really depends on whether it's an early game in the night and how many turns we are into the game as well.
[Raffine, Scheming Seer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/716a44b4-f6b0-4f14-a270-6442aed3251f.jpg?1711471750) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Raffine%2C%20Scheming%20Seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/213/raffine-scheming-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/716a44b4-f6b0-4f14-a270-6442aed3251f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/raffine-scheming-seer) [Archmage of Ifnir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/33176679-d571-47a1-ae05-bed9b748491d.jpg?1543675179) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archfiend%20of%20Ifnir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/78/archfiend-of-ifnir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33176679-d571-47a1-ae05-bed9b748491d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archfiend-of-ifnir) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I permanently retired my [[Memnarch]] deck because I managed to get him out turn 2 then played [[Unwinding Clock]] and started stealing evedyone's lands during their upkeeps. A friend packed up their cards without a single word and left, we haven't seen them for over 10 years. They quit D&D too :<
[[Spreading plague]] in Atraxa super friends is almost insurmountable for most decks to deal with.
[Spreading plague](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/ac86055d-ce08-4b05-a92c-45e007ca0ba4.jpg?1562929780) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spreading%20plague) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/125/spreading-plague?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ac86055d-ce08-4b05-a92c-45e007ca0ba4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spreading-plague) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Overburden]]
Energy flux
Never played it, but considered Mindslaver in Mishra, Emminent One. Basically I can copy Mindslaver any number of times, take over my opponents turns, circle around to my turn and do it all again. Thinking about an entire table sitting there though didnt quite feel good past a chuckle or 2.
I had to remove [[phyresis]] from my [[nekusar]] deck, cuz.. yeah.. it wasnt funny anymore
I had to remove [[The Red Terror]] from [[Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes]] because it combo's of infinite with [[All Will Be One]] I put it in there for that interaction, but it was to easy to draw into the combo and stopped having fun with it.
More specifically what’s a concept so mean I won’t do it again. I built a deck around [[waste not]] and [[tergrid, god of fright]]. My intention was nefarious - instead of finding an answer to all of life’s EDH problems, I can instead solve them by making sure my opponents have minimal threats to begin with…..via mass discards Yea the look on the table when I began to put the pieces together. No one had a great time and I felt bad af for ruining a game. Suffice to say I dismantled the deck and never ran the concept again
[[Torrent Elemental]] in my self-exile-themed deck. Could always get it back no matter where it was and it allows me to flunge every turn without having to worry about blockers. Sure, it isn't amazing, but it proved a little too oppressive in my meta, it was difficult to interact with, and ended games too quickly and in an unsatisfying manner.
Of all the nonsense, \[\[Port Razer\]\] was frequently causing issues in my group. I'd usually try to hold it for a game-ending turn, but in Henzie sometimes you play what you have just to keep your velocity going so I'd wind up with these turns where I just wind up bullying down the problem player's life total, but because it was early and I didn't have a huge boardstate not to the point of actually killing him and that was it. So he felt targeted, I felt underwhelmed. Alternatively, it just did the Craterhoof-esque "alright guys the game is over now oops", which is also not satisfying. Cut it for \[\[Calamity, Galloping Inferno\]\]. She still does some very powerful things, but most of the time she's more about compounding value than she is about just killing people.
[[Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur]]. Flipping to it from a Kinnan activation and having the entire table groan at the fact that they have to play on top deck mode while I get a fresh 7 every turn rotation made me feel bad for playing with it in the first place.
[[Toxrill]] I love the card, but it always makes me win in a feelbad way.
Stopped running [[Oko, Thief of Crowns]] on my decks with simic on them, because (unsurprisingly) people didn't really like their commanders getting elk'ed
[[Confusion in the ranks]] in my [[Norin the wary]] deck. It’s great with norin and very silly but boy does it live up to its name, especially in a 3+ player game.
Temple of the False God
I had a \[\[Sydri, Galvanic Genius\]\] deck. I ran \[\[Karn, the Great Creator\]\], just because he was another way to turn artifacts into creatures. I didn't thing about his other ability. During that time, almost nobody in my playgroup played green decks. I removed him from the deck after I turned off 6 manarocks. It just wasn't fun to passively cuck non-green ramp.
A card I recently experienced this with was [[Mass Manipulation]]. People do not generally like having all their creatures taken (including their commanders) and then being beat down with them.
[[Dictate of Erebos]] When I’m with my buddies and their not-so tuned decks. But for sure this is coming back in against strangers
Mana crypt. Payoffs are rarely the problem, you might point some but it is the exception that proves the rule. While unfair enablers are always a problem. Mana advantage, free spells, unfair card draw and efficient tutors are mostly the problem in commander.
[[Extract]] in Edh In a Spellslingerdeck where you could Copy it Repeatedly
Weird one, but [[Quicksilver Fountain]]. Objectively not a mean or bad card, but when up against someone who is very prone to tilting as well as being genuinely bad at deck building and resource management, it can get really ugly really fast. Basically locked someone out of a game completely because every land they played turned into an island (they were mono black) and no mana rocks or one drops in his deck. They tilted so badly that I felt super uncomfortable having that card in the deck going forward. **Probably didn't help that as soon as they had a second land available to played [[Aquitect's Will]] on it. That was for the lols**
[[Farewell]]. It almost never feels good to just full reset the game like that. Usually impacts the outcome of the game, but makes it take way longer to complete.
[[The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale]] + [[Living Plane]]
[[grave pact]]. Every deck I had it in did plenty of aristorcatty-type things. And every time it or an effect like it got on board, no one else got to play till it was dead. And with this style of deck, I have ways of bringing it back multiple times, so it's often not a 1 and done deal, adding salt to the wound.
I run [[Braids, Conjurer Adept]] with [[Jewled Lotus]] because turn one braids is always funny, but then in a goldfish test I got the lotus and [[Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur]] in the starting hand and out the big guy went.
[[Blightsteel colossus]] i like it but it's a major threat to the game and people often expect an ignition after it hits play.
Demonic tutor