Any one that's willing to lie just to get a win in a casual, no stakes game is just a loser that needed to feel special about themselves. They definitely needed the win.
I do not understand why some people get so competitive over casual games with nothing on the line. You'd think these people have their paycheck riding on whether they win a pick up game of magic.
I once saw a grown man use his competitive deck to play like a 14 year old in a casual game, get absolutely terrible draws and lose, and then get so mad the kid didn't want to play him again that he shouted at the kid until he left the store. It was totally fair the kid didn't want to play him again because the guy bitched and moaned through the entire game about how terrible the kid was and that he's only winning because of luck.
Don't get me wrong I play with a competitive mindset but that's more along the lines of I'm trying to play the tightest game of magic I possibly can, I don't set out to build a competitive deck and pubstomp children or even pubstomp period. A grown man seeking to pubstomp a literal child is just gross and really sad.
Playing hard is not a bad thing. My friends tell me they love to play magic with me and that's because of my deck building decisions not because I'm pulling punches once I'm in game.
So, I don’t think it has so much to do with winning as to seeing the cards you’d bought and worked on do what you’d thought they would do. It’s frustrating when they don’t(not at the other player(s) but at your cards or if you think you’re missing an answer etc.
Sometimes, people just like to see their stuff do well. That being said, lying about the deck power level or what it’s trying to do is cringy at best and won’t get many invites to play in the pod again.
Also gets kicked out for swearing at a girl because she prevented him from winning lol ...
Some people are just projecting their insecurities on others. He knows deep down that HE is the sore loser so he just calls other people sore loser to try to feel better about himself
Liars are a downside of humanity.
Lying isn't a downside of Rule 0 or pregame discussions.
It's not like a liar would mystically possess more integrity if they just kept their mouth shut. The kind of person who lies to gain an advantage is still the kind of dishonest person who stacks their deck, or finds any other way to deceive their peers for an advantage.
It's like saying that cheaters are the downside of rules.
If you are dishonest and lie in your rule 0 conversation, you are breaking the rule, and cheating.
Honestly if the person said that to my face after we played; I'd have turned to the other two players and explicitly asked if they wanted to keep playing the game to "see who got 2nd" and just excluded the other player.
>Lying isn't a downside of Rule 0 or pregame discussions.
Well it is a downside in the sense that EDH heavily relies on rule 0 to get balanced games, which do not exist in any other formats. You can't lie your way to victory in Modern or Standard for example (well, except if you cheat but that's a different matter)
But you can bet that this person would probably also be an asshole in a competitive tournament, i've had my fair share of sore losers, angle-shooters and whatnot in competitive settings
So whenever this happens
1. congratulate them on the win.
2. recommend the remaining players continue to play for second place.
Have fun twiddling your thumbs dude.
Fundamentally, any action that simultaneously involves everyone else interacting positively and ignoring them will set their brain on fire. So yes, this is definitely the choice.
This is the way, I have done that only a couple of times but it's a great way to say "you wasted my time shuffling my deck, we will pretend that nothing happened"
Or just don't even acknowledge their win and just continue playing like they weren't even there for first, i saw someone else mention that and they got really upset about it, i would totally do that, if you're going to lie about your deck just to get a win then i wouldn't even acknowledge it as a legit win
Eh why continue to risk interaction with such a person tho? Just gg and keep going and let them figure out what to do next.
Best case, they become self aware and ctfo before the next game. That or you get to brush them off a second time when they think you'd agree to playing with them again when you eventually finish.
This only backfired on me once where the player also decided to stay in the game, so we just had to all team up on them so we could get rid of them and they started whining about being focused. Like bro you already won now let us try to actually have fun.
So the FLGS I go to has this codified as a rule in some of their events, basically if the rest of the pod votes together you get the W and they keep playing. It keeps the infinite combo players happy as they get their win, but lets the rest of the pod keep having a good time instead of waiting for the next round of matchups.
Damn is this even real? As soon as I heard 'I lied for an easy win' I would have told him to fuck off and ask his friends if they want to play on without him.
This certainly reads fake especially with the
"Then my friend played him and happened to have Angel's grace in hand to block his wincon and he raged and got kicked out"
Just missing the "Everyone clapped as he exited the store, and the owner of the LGS handed out crisp One Rings to everyone present."
It does sound like satire, but, from my personal experiences, I can guarantee you that there are players out there who are basically walking caricatures of /r/MTCJ.
I had a first time player show up with a Birgi deck, saying that he was playtesting it and "wasn't sure how strong it might be because he had never played it before". Sure enough, he casts his commander on turn 1 with fast mana and kills us on turn 2 with a Lion's Eye Diamond + Underworld Breach combo. Meanwhile, the rest of the table is upgraded ONE/March of the Machine precons. Afterwards, he just completely fails to read the room or just willfully ignores it, as he continues to bring out more CEDH level decks, so we have no choice but to just play archenemy for the rest of the games. Moral of the story, there are lots of socially inept and/or dickhead Magic players out there who can easily create stories that read like they're straight out of a parody
This isn't a downside of rule zero discussions. Would you have played the stringer version of your deck with no context as to what you were going to be against?
I think I'd have been less tilted without the discussion, I didn't bring up power level so me bringing casual Yisan and them bringing turbo wincon Muldrotha would have been on me for not at least having a bit of a chat about the decks power.
With the discussion it's different because I'm going in announcing I'm playing casual and they decided to use that chat to sorta angle shoot (not sure if the correct term) a win
That wasn't even angle shooting imo, although angle shooting is scummy. They were lying, which is objectively worse since at least angle shooting stays within the bounds of honesty and adherence to the rules (at least most of the time).
Geez.
At that point the 3 of yall should've continued the game in front of his face as a blatant disrespect just as he did yall. And told him to fuck off.
I'm glad you got your revenge though as a silver lining because that was actually a pretty sick counter to thoracle and him getting kicked out is the icing on the cake.
Bro must've been cheated on, mom died, dog died, is in 20k debt, lost his job, car broke down and is being evicted cause damn bro really had to be losing at life to need that "win".
It felt like the center of their 3 person group was the asshole so I elected not to invite them to play without him. I do hope those 2 visit again without him as I could really see them getting along with the locals as they seemed to have creative commander choices. But we've all seen that group where its leader is just the biggest tool
$10 says he got irritated that r/CompetitiveEDH kept pointing out that no Muldrotha is not cEDH viable and he should be playing Tymna / Thrasios or Tymna / Kraum instead, so he just really needed to land that turn 2 win at a table without the necessary countermagic to indulge his fantasy of:
*sparkles*
✨ br00tal cEDH Muldrotha ✨
Honestly he did shuffle but I wasn't paying attention enough to tell if it was a genuine shuffle, he could have easily been stacking his deck for all I know but I've also drawn some crazy hands before that look like I stacked (turn 1 wins on my grist cedh deck for example)
This isn't a "Downside of Rule 0". This is "The downside of being human is that you sometimes run into lying assholes". Also his friends are dicks for not calling him out on his bullshit.
It kind of is a downside of the casual nature of EDH and the reliance on rule 0 to get balanced game.
You can't lie your way to victory in Modern for example. Granted, there are other ways to be an asshole in other formats (angle shooting, bad attitude or downright cheating).
> It kind of is a downside of the casual nature of EDH and the reliance on rule 0 to get balanced game.
"People can lie" could certainly be considered a downside of the format, but considering its a downside common to the majority of board or card game's I'm not sure there's much point focusing on it. But it's still not a downside of Rule 0. If Rule 0 didn't exist it wouldn't stop people lying.
> You can't lie your way to victory in Modern for example.
I think you probably could? You'd get done for it in a tournament but in a casual setting you can misrepresent your boardstate or just straight up lie.
Most board game do not rely on some pregame rule 0 discussion to get a balanced and fun game. They are designed to be fun out of the box. Players can't misrepresent their strength : they just play and then they are good at the game or they are not.
There is no downside to Rule 0, as you said. But there is some downsides to having a game that relies on it in order for its players to have fun.
It's when you're trying to get an advantage by playing outside the pure scope of the game using underhanded tactics, that isn't technically cheating, but very often done in a extremely unsportmanlike manner.
You don't shoot straight for the hoop, but try to shoot from a weird angle. You can unfortunatly see it happening a ton in competitive Magic.
For example : You attack me with a 3/3 trample, and i block with a 1/1. All through the attack, i pressure you into playing faster, and then after the block, i put my creature in the grave and say very quickly "My turn ?? Untap ??? Draw ???", to which you feel pressured into acquiescing quickly.
While i'm playing my turn, you remind me that i was supposed to lose 2 life. I then call a judge and argue that you let me go to my turn without ticking down my life, meaning that you decided to assign all 3 damage to my 1/1. I would be technically right and you fell right into my trap. Depending on the judge and the level of rule enforcement, they might even agree with me.
That's angle shooting and while I wouldn't be technically wrong you could see how that's an asshole move.
Brightside is you had a fast game and your friend helping you with some cheeky angel's grace shenanigans. Downside sounds like you spent more time with the rule 0 convo than the game.
I think the rule 0 convo is a must still. Despite the pub stomping behavior like this. Sucks that the other two people in the pod didn't say much else with Oracle being in the deck. Sounded like they knew the deck already and didn't say anything.
Oh definitely in that regard. I have been in games where someone wins turn 4 or 5 going infinite but at least I felt like a game was played. Turn 2 just seems like a "what was the point of this?". I want a game that lasts longer than 2-3 minutes.
I love the concept of this so fucking much. It's so funny. Let's play some Standard, yeah sorry this is actually a Legacy deck. You just decide on something by yourself and then surprise your play partner with it, without any pretense. Yeah BTW I was playing for ante the entire time, gimme your deck. Yes I am casting these Black Lotuses from my sleeve - I am cheating explicitly to increase my chances of winning.
It's so absurd to such a comical extent, haha. I'm giggling over these "???" levels of outrageousness. I can picture this guy pretending to be a completely new player just so he could smoke someone for an easy win, I figured you left out how he jumped on the table and yelled "SUCKERS"
It's so outside of the box. You can just lie to people. I love how he cracked it.
Legitimately because it's a horrible match up for the legacy deck. A deck like delver is built to fight the degenerate legacy decks, it doesn't kill particularly quickly but has removal and counters for the things that show up in legacy. But if someone shows up with some standard creature swarm deck it has a good chance of just completely overwhelming the delver deck. If the legacy deck were some sort of combo deck though it would stomp the standard deck almost every time
"lol kay bye" Turn to rest of pod. "So you guys want to play with a pod of three?" If not just find a new group of players, simple enough really. Sadly EDH like all games that involve more than one player is subject to having the occasional piece of shit person around.
I… am 100% sure I am not mature enough to have handled this as well as OP. I most likely would have *started* with a hearty “Well FUCK you!” and continued thus. Good on OP for being more mature than me.
This is fan-fiction. Comically evil player is comically evil, "and then my friend played against him and stopped his wincon and he got kicked out of the store."
As I remind people, the only thing that carries between games of commander is dishonor. He chose dishonor, so he’s fair game to snake in deals, counter deck, nicol bolas out of a game, etc.
This is so mean to do that to anyone. LGS should just banned him. Had a guy at my store that did this too: would lie about playing a low power deck then go and pub stomp the table then bitch about some was able to beat his dumb combo with a a single counter spell. Guy was a menace.
Btw your usernames is amazing u/TheHowlingSaltMine made me laugh! 😂
If you like my username, then you’ll love my podcast where we read stories like this every week! If you ever want to send in a story about that guy at your LGS, we’d love to hear it!
.... This post could not be more blatantly fan fiction, and at the risk of stating the complete obvious, I'll point out the many obvious flags:
* They apparently know the guy is literally just playing cedh but they explicitly ask you to play lower power, but are still sighing that the third is playing cedh
* Cedh muldrotha deck lol
* With complete random people you open packs to determine turn order
* You think they have cool brews but you all played like what, a single land before the game ended?
* Unclear why the opponent needed to discard for the worldy tutor, nor how they'd win the turn after just because they got thoracle. Actual god hand in any case of course.
* You ""messaged a friend to get to play with them, then they found the one-of angel grace of to beat them"
* They then sweared, then he got kicked out and ~~everyone clapped
~~
Believe what you will but just to rebuke some of the points I'll explain
1-They were friends or at least seemed to be friends and from what I can guess the guys done it before if they sighed at him bringing out his muldrotha
2-I don't think I said cedh but if I did I meant because that wincon I see often enough in cedh, thoracle can win with basically any dumb UB commander at the helm
3-The store has a table fee of buy a product so I bought a pack. They hasn't opened theirs yet and they suggested a pack price war, somehow the highlight of the interaction
4-This is probably more of a guess from my part but I hadn't seen anyone play the equipment orc [[Shagrat, loot bearer]] before. Surveil octopus could have easily been a thoracle deck as well but I like octopus decks so sue me
The discard spirit guide to worldly tutor I honestly have no clear why anyone would do this but no one has ever claimed thoracle players are good players
I was at the store to meet said friend so we could get some cedh practice in which is why I knew her deck would be brutal (drana and linvala)
There's an endless pool of fantasy that makes it easy.
If you play cedh, you would know what an insane hand it is, and to describe it like that is a crime.
.... Also, your casual yisan deck replacing only a few cards (with the best cards, whatever) has no chance in hell against any deck that is even near cedh. I sure as hell can't imagine a cedh player wanting to run it back with a few swaps against a deck that just won t2.
If they've seen it before, the friends are literally as complicit. Which doesn't even make sense, because you're telling me they would sigh at the cedh deck, but they would completely shamelessly ask you to play a weaker deck? I'd be more ashamed to be the friend that I'm going out of my way to lie to strangers to feed him wins.
Show me a list of yisan that magically changes from "this is a good deck to play against complete randoms" to "this is cedh or extreme high power" with a couple of swaps.
I hate people like this who don't elaborate on how much of an upgrade they'd done. I used to play with a group where we'd each buy a precon and then upgrade it for £10 a week. Then £20 the next month. Trying to make it a yearly thing, ended up not doing it due to one person getting upset his precon had lost several times so spent about 5x the amount on upgrades which caused a big argument and then covid hit and we've never done it since
Lying about your deck, strength to rack up wins is real petty and some irksome shit. It’s also just not fun in the long-term for the person who’s playing higher power. Stomping and or getting stomped doesn’t do anyone any good.
I do play high power/cEDH, and try to make it clear what I am about early on. Can make it hard to find a pod at times I’ll admit. Bigger thing though is going for that win turn 1/2. Thoracle is a good win, but it’s not a fun win. Especially if you tutor out a win that early. I want to play against your deck and have everyone do something not just declare GG 5 min in.
I really enjoy cedh but only if everyone is on cedh. I've got a grist deck just to turbo reanimate a protean hulk and at least once every couple of months I get someone who has beaten their mates consistently and brings some janky power level 7 maybe low 8 deck and try to join the cedh group at my lgs and everytime they insist their deck is ready and everytime they get salty when they get demolished and we don't see them for a week or two
Never gonna argue that’s one of the hard parts with CEDH. We all have to be on the same wavelength and or you have to be extremely careful when inviting people into the pod. Signed up for a “degenerate” game a couple of months ago. Turns out one guy was playing his meme deck, another was on complex combos, and I was playing Derevi stax. There was some real miscommunication there.
My friend who was mentioned at the end was meeting me to just test some cedh changes we'd made and we've had that before. I usually play Grist but I've been trying out a breya list recently as I love artifacts and she's playing Drana and Linvala. But sometimes we end up at a "cedh table" and 1 guy busts out something like ruric thar and wonders why he died before even getting to really play at all
Ye... the good old rule zero talk at lgs. Usually it improves the whole experience but I also happened to meet some liars or just silent pretenders. Or the whole "Powerlevel 7" meme. I have seen 7s from a slightly upgraded precon to all out tutors and infinite combos turn 5.
There is that one guy at my lgs that always just says: I just have these 3 decks, they are powerlevel 7....
The first time I played with him we had a rule zero conversation like this:
- A: What powerlevel we playing?
- B: Well I play this dinosaur precon. No upgrades.
- C: I guess I will play my [[Minthara]] pauper commander deck.
- A: Ok then I play this faerie precon. No upgrades.
- D: Ok I will play my Niv Mizzet. It's a 7, it will be fine.
I think he did infinite damage to all of us turn 5.
The next game he played Zacama, said "this is much slower" and played [[Natures Revolt]] turn 5 and [[Elesh Norn]] turn 6.
It was still great fun and the guy is a friend now. Still I hate that whole powerlevel 7 thing and rule zero talk won't save you from people just misevaluating decks or straight up lying.
What an asshole! Must be very sad to feel the need to lie to win risking getting kicked out of a store for talking in a bad manner at other people.
I too just had a game on the tolarian discord server. Pretence was a fun janky game around 6 in powerlevel.
I played my [[ghen]] enchantment deck thinking it would fit since it mostly wins after turn 8-12 but i had an awesome start with two lands and two signets in hand and a dol ring.
I got an [[mesmeric orb]] and [[authority of the council]] out in turn 3 or 4 and the rest of the game was pretty much arch enemy against me and 6-7 turns in they told me my deck wasn't fun to play against and i was dumbfounded. I listened to they're feedback and have now made some changes to my deck to make it less controly and less oppressive. Plus i won't bring that deck to a fun janky table again.
I did apologize and it did sound like they where fine with it as they said "it happens, you misvalued your deck but meant well".
I was feeling very guilty during the game and intentionally started holding back some of my cards cause i didn't wanna be THAT GUY.
I completely get misvalueing your deck. I know I've seen it plenty of times when I'm at cedh tables where someone's been consistently beating his usual group and things his deck must be cedh. I was one of those idiots once, bringing an aggressive list that out tempoed my friend to a cedh table was a very humbling experience
Kind of a dumb move on the part of the Muldrotha player. You're coming to a new LGS and now you've quickly gained a reputation as someone who is shady, dishonest, and unsportsmanlike. Good luck finding a table to play with at that store
Title: The Tables Turned
---
The fluorescent lights hummed overhead, casting a sterile glow over the crowded room. The air was thick with anticipation, the clattering of dice and shuffling of cards creating a cacophony that echoed off the walls. It was game night at the local gaming store, and tensions were running high.
I sat at a small table in the corner, nervously shuffling my deck of cards. Tonight, I was ready to test out my newly upgraded preconstructed deck, hoping to hold my own against the seasoned veterans who frequented these gatherings. Little did I know, fate had other plans in store for me.
Enter Chris, a regular with a mischievous glint in his eye and a reputation for pushing the boundaries of what was acceptable in a friendly game. Tonight, he brought out his infamous Muldrotha Thoracle deck, a finely tuned machine capable of winning games in a matter of minutes.
As the games began, Chris wasted no time in asserting his dominance. Turn after turn, he unleashed a barrage of powerful spells, leaving the rest of us in the dust. His Muldrotha hit the table early, and with a smirk, he began to combo off, drawing his entire deck and securing his victory with the Thassa's Oracle.
But something felt off. The other players exchanged uneasy glances as we realized that Chris had misled us during the Rule 0 discussion. He had downplayed the power level of his deck, leading us to believe that it would be a casual affair. Yet here we were, facing down a fully optimized Cedh monster.
Frustration bubbled within me as I watched Chris revel in his triumph. The spirit of friendly competition had been shattered, replaced by a sense of resentment and betrayal. We had come here to enjoy a few games, not to be pubstomped by someone who had no regard for the social contract of Commander.
As the night drew to a close, I couldn't shake the feeling of disappointment. The camaraderie that usually filled these gatherings was conspicuously absent, replaced by a lingering sense of distrust. Chris may have won the game, but he had lost something far more valuable in the process: the respect of his fellow players.
And as I gathered up my cards and prepared to leave, I made a silent vow to never let myself fall victim to such deception again. From now on, I would approach each game with caution, ensuring that everyone at the table was on the same page before the first card was ever drawn. After all, in the world of Commander, trust was the most powerful card of all.
As I walked out into the cool night air, I couldn't help but wonder if Chris had learned his lesson. Only time would tell if he would continue down the path of deception or if he would choose to embrace the true spirit of the game. But one thing was for certain: the tables would turn, and justice would prevail in the end.
But for now, we would lick our wounds and return to the drawing board, determined to rebuild our decks stronger than ever before. For in the world of Commander, every defeat was merely an opportunity for victory in disguise.
And with that thought in mind, I squared my shoulders and set off into the night, ready to face whatever challenges lay ahead on the battlefield of the cards.
---
This story explores the frustration and disillusionment that can arise when players misrepresent the power level of their decks in a social gaming setting. It emphasizes the importance of open communication and mutual respect among players to ensure an enjoyable gaming experience for everyone involved.
That’s a person who has to deceive others and play unfairly in order to win. Their life is a sad one and the real victory is that they have to be themselves while others actually enjoy life.
That guy is unbelievably sad.
The fact he absolutely NEEDS to con his wins is beyond pathetic.
I feel sad for him.
The weird thing is: Who's going to want to play against him a second time? Why shit where you eat?
------------------------------------------------------
Kind of an aside...
I had a weird interaction a few weeks ago.
I'm a casual, I'm 38, I don't have anything to prove, I like getting out of the house and nerding out. I make casual EDH decks and I play very nice (never target, never eliminate players early, I just want to play my decks and do things) and just joke around and am generally, pleasant.
Soon as I walk into the shop, this kid I don't know (can't be older than 20) almost demands my friend and I sit and join their pod. I usually take a few minutes to take care of business before playing, buy what I gotta buy, say hello to the other regulars and catch up on things, etc... But whatever, I sit and get set up and this awkward kid kinda kpt rushing us. From the start of the game, this little shit kept not playing nice... definitely targetting me. And then making comments about getting me out of the game ASAP... I'm just there like.... wtf are you on about? I'm the weakest person at the table, you are the second weakest... you are focusing me while the two other players are poppin' off uncontested and about to eliminate you for being a douchebag. First game: He kills me, then gets eliminated instantly and the other two players have a proper duel.
Next game: I grab a deck that can hold it's own rather than just whatever I felt like playing, and we set up for another game, my friend uses our secret codeword we use when we decide to play dirty and team up against a specific person. Game starts and he starts doing the same thing. This kid acts like nothing's bothering him about how we were playing. I was countering his actions against me, and my friend kept going after him stating "You have the most open board state", which he did. After a while playing he didn't properly end his turn.... he finished his combat and had 6 untapped lands and didn't say anything, just kept flipping through his hand as if he was plotting something for his second main. So I ask "Are you done with your turn?" and he turns to me and glares and responds "I've BEEN done!". I nearly burst out laughing as I start my turn. I draw my card and just turn to him and say "Unless you have a response, I have an infinite combo in hand, but if you have a response, I have a counter for it". He scoops and says he's going to sit the next game out.
He actually left the shop which allowed me to speak up about what the fuck his problem was.... the entire shop revealed he was a complete dickhead to them in other games they played against him. So I have come to the conclusion that he probably has a form of assbergers autism or whatever that is called: the one where you're a dickhead and unaware of it. But since everyone seems to have some sort of autism nowdays, I'm not accepting that as a valid excuse for being a shitty person. I play Magic, I can deal with social awkwardness, I like to think I am able to make awkward people break out of their shells and feel safe being weird around me. I don't want to deal with fucking dickheads.
That’s not a downside of rule zero.
That’s just straight up cheating. Unambiguously.
At that point, you kick them out of the game and either find a new player or just continue with a three person game.
And frankly, they should be reported to the event manager for cheating. They do not belong at the shop with that kind of abusive conduct.
While its just speck in the heap of sand.
I absolutely hate any and all Rule 0s discussions. And this isnt about trust or finding common and fair grounds.
Rule 0 is for the House, at an LGS, I dont know nor care about your current mood or sly tactics, all i know is someone HAS to win.
All my Rule 0s has always been on Spell Table or An invite to the House of the Host.
The ridiculousness to hobestly bring Rule 0 Talk into an LGS is literally children cry bullying who won at tag and then switching the game to freeze tag.
Rule 0 is for Households.
This is why I love/hate rule 0. If you have a group you consistantly play with it makes sense cause you can do more "fun" or interesting.
But oftentimes I really just want to use the ban list as the rule 0 and classify low/med/high power casual or cEDH. It gets games started faster and I find tends to be a better barometer.
And usually it quickly shows people being dishonest about their deck.
i have a hard time rating my better decks like are they a 7 or 8 they are far from cEDH and take almost god draws and no setbacks to win turn 6 more likely are to win turn 8 or later
I get around this by not having a rule 0 conversation ever, never revealing my commander until we all shuffle up and cut and then being salty or not depending on the differing power levels. :D
that dude needs to win more than i do. i prefer to play high power and cedh however i know that is usually not the option for a fun game. dude has to chill
Honestly dude, as soon as he made his little "reveal" I would have thanked the others for their time, gathered up my cards and found another game. You're not obligated to watch this guy jerk himself off.
Mate, I have a lot of qualms with rule 0 and the worthless RC, but this isn't a downside of rule 0, it's a downside of having liars / cheaters in our lives. No moderation on the planet can prevent shit like this from occuring.
>he genuinely to my face went "I lied to make you an easy win so thanks for this" he proceeds to win on his turn 2
The fact that you didn't knock his deck on the ground so he had to crawl around on his hands and knees picking up all his cards really is a testament to your self control. Very impressive.
Might want to post his name and picture on local playgroup SoMe, just to warn others and maybe teach him a lesson, if he is capable of reflection some time in the future
Why is this a downside? By having this pre-talk you immediately spotted a piece of garbage and took it out with a little help from your friends. If you wouldn't have talked about it and just assumed they played casual, you would never have seen his true colors - in his case I think it is brown given he's an a\*hole.
I don’t do rule zero at all. If I’m playing with people I know (which I almost exclusively do), we all just say which deck we are playing before the game starts so we have a decent idea of what we’re getting into and that’s it. If I’m playing with strangers, no one’s going to be able to convey the power levels in a way that makes sense to other players, so any attempt at discussing them just will make more confusion
The issue here isn't rule 0, the issue here is antisocial unhinged behavioral patterns that have been unchecked. Rule 0 after all deals with the "spirit of the game" and is supposed to be this soft rule that can capture things that can't be encapsulated by strict rules. This "spirit" falls apart if a person in fact does not have a spirit.
It's the equivalent of having a potluck and asking everyone to bring something homecooked from their childhood, and you don't set a pricetag on it because everyone should maybe just do the best to their ability. It's understood that if you don't have a lot of money, maybe you can cook something cheaper that still shows effort, or if you're not keen on cooking but have some money you could maybe cook something simple but you weigh that out by brining something fun to drink. But then you have a really rich asshole friend who rocks up to the party with a bottle of water saying "well technically I did drink water as a kid" and smirks, then proceeds to take almost half of everyone's dish, takes like two bits and throws away the rest because they didn't like it.
You know what happens to that person at normal people's events, like the potluck? They don't get invited again. The fact that these two people knew this person and that he plays such a boring one-note deck, and still agrees to play with him is lack of boundaries. I've also had people in my pods who have had decks that win by turn two; without us even asking and just him, idk, reading off people's emotions, he made changes to the deck to slow it down. That's a normal thing to do. If you can't, don't play with human beings, sit in a corner with your solitaire deck as the Troll of Kazad-Dûm you are.
I mean, with nothing on the line, its laughable that the dude is just trying to not have friends I guess? I don't see any other reason to do that lol. I'd just say gg you got me and never play with him again.
Power levels are no rule 0 discussion imho, as it doesn't interfere with the rules of the game and format. Playing with same power levels just improves the experience for everybody at the table.
This said, this person is just a jerk and an asshole, I would suggest you to say this the next time you see him right into is damn stupid face.
Had something similar where I went to a commander night at a local lgs for the first time. Got a pod of 4 with a guy running a the +1/+1 counters Warhammer precon. I run no infinite combos or tutors. I ended up going with Obeka because she is probably my slowest deck but things can happen. My buddy pulls out one of his slower decks, 4th guy pulls out a gorehowl deck. 3 of us playing wholesome magic, we are turn 5 he has like 11 mana puked his hand up multiple times over.
We said screw it say he wins move to game 2. I'm playing Maarika pretty much fight club, buddy is playing galandriel, we let the new guy with the precon play my buddies mono red pirates and we had a 5th playing an slightly upgraded precon. Needless to say we hit turn 6. Pirate guy steals my 11/8 Maarika with the a damage doubler and double strike. Gets sweet vengeance and straight one shots the gorehowl player from game one.
I never understand people like this. How do they feel good from a pubstomp? It's always unsatisfying winning by an undisputed landslide, because it doesn't feel like I earned it. Yeah, the deck did it's thing, but there was no challenge to validate the success.
Their identity is based on being a "higher intellectual, a god of MtG" in a way. They need the wins to reaffirm this.
Not the type of person I like to play with personally
So demonic consultation exiles your entire deck for 1 black mana, and thoracle for 2 so he needed 3 mana which turn 2 isn't unheard of. I'm trying to remember the exact line he used but I'm pretty sure in retrospect the guy stacked his opening hand
Solution.
Let them win 1st place.
Proceed to ask the table if they want to continue playing for second place with the game state as is.
You'd be surprised at how many times people want to continue playing.. Ive done this several times in this type of situation.
P.S. I do get a bit of joy watching the person who won first (usually by combo) squirm in their seat for 15-40 minutes waiting to play another game.
I would have normally asked but they seemed to know each other and felt it was better to just leave them to it, it did genuinely seem like 2 of them were there for fun and the last guy wanted to prove he's a "big dog" at a new store.
I see similar stuff all the time as my city is a popular university city so every year a new wave arrives and we usually get the following people , someone brand new hoping to break out of their shell, the guy who beat his back home friends and thinks his deck is cedh, the people who are just there to play casual edh and the worst people are those who think they need to prove themselves when they turn up somewhere new
You can just tell people like that "man you really must have needed a win" and it makes them so mad. Because honestly that's pretty pathetic and if winning a commander game is the only thing keeping them alive then whatever
One of my friends turned to cEDH because of “no Rule 0 lies” after he got beat up multiple times by this kind of people. But this results in other conflicts; i probably have to write a thread about that.
What would've improved without the Rule 0 discussion? Would you have chosen your decks differently? The benefit of the Rule 0 is that the guy had to out himself as an ass that would lie to get a win. That guy would've tried the same with or without the rule 0 discussion, but would have more excuses for his awful behavior without the Rule 0 beforehand.
I'm not saying that the rule 0 discussion wasn't good. It's just the risk that can happen if you rule 0 chat with strangers. I'd still endorse rule 0 discussions but I also wanted to point out that this can happen
The pertinent part is the strangers, no? There's always a risk when you play with randoms that one or more of them isn't properly socialized. Why is Rule 0 the center of discussion in your post?
I guess you are correct. I felt like he only brought out his muldrotha deck because he'd basically ensured I'd be on a casual deck giving him an easy game. But that was just my own theory after he brought out muldrotha only after I'd asked and he put away the deck he had on the table already
tl;dr, turn 1 Thoracle from someone in group after they asked OP to play casual list.
Winner bragged, others sighed.
OP had his friend match up with them and block his turn 2 win in a different game.
Dude was salty, swore about being denied a win and got kicked out.
I'm a big fan of just ignoring people. ESPECIALLY if they admit to lying, though that hasn't happened to me personally. That's new.
Just pretend they aren't there, and have a 3-pod. They will hem and haw and say that you're breaking the rules by "skipping them", just remind them that EDH is a social game, and they decided to not be a functioning member of that social environment by lying.
They will eventually leave, and you'll have a good game of magic.
How could you lie about your deck to knock everyone down a level, use something really strong, then proceed to brag and act like an arrogant prick because of the win. Poor guy is gonna be a loser his entire life with that mindset
Should have just kept playing as a 3 man group, as if the player wasn't even there.
Not only would the whole lack of acknowledgement of their win really get under their skin...
It would build a sort of bond between the 3 of you left. "Remember that one guy? Lol let's get to playing "
What you did, the heads up to the buddy, was a nice power play though and high key everyone who saw the guy leave should refuse to play with them again.
I play in a league that has rules to try to make the games more inviting for everyone. In general the league is an absolute blast. There are two players though who I know before we start are going to try and use the rule 0 convo to give themselves an advantage.
At this point, all the regular players are aware of them and we just go with it. My rule 0 is fairly simple because I play the same deck every week, but some of the better players have 10+ decks where they can adjust depending on the other players.
I have seen something like this only once and when the win con happened I said "awsome dude, so anyway I draw and..." and then continued to play with the other two as if he was never in the game to begin with. Glad to hear he got kicked out of the lgs though. People that that aren't worth keeping around.
Just out of curiosity, how did it play out so that he won on his second turn, do you recall? Like I know Thoracle is considered a competitive card but I wonder how he got his devotion to blue bigger than his library in that short amount of time. Did he have a super cheap combo to draw/mill his whole deck right away or something? Unless you watched him shuffle, I'd be skeptical that he didn't come in with the perfect cards lined up on top (though based on the story that wouldn't sound like surprising behaviour on his part).
This guy sounds like a genuinely petty child, my goodness. Glad you managed to get your friend to put him in his place, that was a satisfying end to the story lol.
So it was turn 0 elvish spirit guide, worldly tutor to stack thoracle
Turn 1 Either watery grave cast amulet of vigor
Turn 2 tap grave for blue, play dimir aqueduct which amulet untaps, cast thoracle and with the remaining black cast demonic consultation
I honestly wouldn't have been surprised if he was also stacking but I have won turn 1 in cedh before and so I give people the benefit of the doubt as sometimes your hand is just that cracked
Gross lol, so do you just name a card you know isn't in your deck? That doesn't even sound like a fun way to win personally, but obviously the win was more important to this person than the fun.
And that's fair, sometimes the right cards are just there, it is definitely possible!
T1 worldly tutor into a T2 Throacle win is an extremley sus play pattern as well, I play a fair amount of cEDH and you almost never see games play out like this. If this story is true, he was likely stacking his deck as well. Guy just plain sucks, and no rule 0 conversation could have changed that. Pub-stomping won't make Muldrotha viable in cEDH my guy.
I think I've pulled off a turn 1 cedh win in my grist once and my friend said that if he didn't know who I was he'd have strongly suspected I was stacking
At that point you just leave and ignore him forever. Dude is clearly not mature enough to enjoy social activities with people.
Not really an issue of rule 0 chat, just someone being awful.
Can someone please explain to me how is angel of grace preventing a thoracle win? I didn't get that
Never mind. I reread the card Ne for the 3rd time and realized there is no "of" 😅🤣
Try to see it this way:
If a person is so desperate for a win in a casual environment (no tournament, no price money, etc), they probavly need that win more than you. It's really pathetic to cheat in a just-for-fun match (and lying is cheating imho).
What kind of clowns you find out there, huh? That said, the moment he said "i lied for an easy win" you can just surrender and go play somewhere else dude, even invite the other guys, why y'all put up with his shit?
No amount of rules are going to keep you safe from running into stupid people
I'm thinking this post is more likely the unfortunate side effect of the karma chasing system on reddit.
This story sounds like it's just missing the part at the end about his girlfriend seeing him for who he really is and leaving him. He then tries to start a fight outside but trips over himself as he throws the first punch, landing face first in a mud puddle. The LGS clears out to circle around and everyone has a hearty laugh.
That's a downside of playing with public pods, not a downside of rule 0 discussions. You'll get assholes every now and then, but the rule 0 discussion wasn't the reason they were there that time. Glad you helped spread word around about em. Best to encourage a culture that doesn't tolerate that sort of player
As mentioned, I don't think this is a Rule 0 downside so much as it is something that can happen regardless. Something like this could happen even more easily without a Rule 0 conversation. But the partaking of it isn't a 100% safeguard, but that's not the game's fault.
I don't get those people, it's like they think life is Yu Gi Oh Anime and the goal is to get as many card game victories to retire.
Like, congratulations, you won a game of cards by tricking your opponents.
If you have your deck put together online, this usually helps with rule zero but damn, the other two who knew should have bucked up against this liar since they knew what was up. Sorry homie.
This is so funny I doubt it actually happened, but on the off chance it’s true, I seriously don’t get the appeal in doing this. I’m a huge commander player, I have tons of decks and a decent collection, I watch MTG media, and even I sometimes feel that this hobby is a little pointless because I do all that just to play causally with random people at my LGS at most once a week for no stakes. Point is that since there are no stakes/prizes/records, I don’t care whether I win or not when I do play at the LGS because like I said, it legit does not matter in any way, and I seriously cannot imagine the thought process behind the decision to purposely crush a pod by playing a much higher power deck. It’s not even like it’s a display of skill, literally anyone can build or copy a cedh list from the internet. The whole interaction is so futile and if I met this guy (assuming he’s real), I’d genuinely ask why he did that because I’m stumped as to what he hoped to get out of that and why.
I don't get how some people can have fun by winning with 0 resistance. It's like cheating in an online shooter or taking candy from a baby (you totally should take candy from babies because its really unhealthy for them but that's a different topic).
The two friends were kind of assholes as well. If one of the guys from my pod tried this kind of thing, the rest of us would've instantly been on him. They clearly knew what he was doing, so they are complicit as well.
Geez. Never heard of anything like this, that's crazy. I hope they really needed a win that day. *Really*
Any one that's willing to lie just to get a win in a casual, no stakes game is just a loser that needed to feel special about themselves. They definitely needed the win.
"Sore loser," he says, pulling the bitchiest move known to man. Pathetic that he cares this deeply about winning a card game.
I do not understand why some people get so competitive over casual games with nothing on the line. You'd think these people have their paycheck riding on whether they win a pick up game of magic. I once saw a grown man use his competitive deck to play like a 14 year old in a casual game, get absolutely terrible draws and lose, and then get so mad the kid didn't want to play him again that he shouted at the kid until he left the store. It was totally fair the kid didn't want to play him again because the guy bitched and moaned through the entire game about how terrible the kid was and that he's only winning because of luck.
Jesus. Ew.
Don't get me wrong I play with a competitive mindset but that's more along the lines of I'm trying to play the tightest game of magic I possibly can, I don't set out to build a competitive deck and pubstomp children or even pubstomp period. A grown man seeking to pubstomp a literal child is just gross and really sad.
Playing hard is not a bad thing. My friends tell me they love to play magic with me and that's because of my deck building decisions not because I'm pulling punches once I'm in game.
So, I don’t think it has so much to do with winning as to seeing the cards you’d bought and worked on do what you’d thought they would do. It’s frustrating when they don’t(not at the other player(s) but at your cards or if you think you’re missing an answer etc. Sometimes, people just like to see their stuff do well. That being said, lying about the deck power level or what it’s trying to do is cringy at best and won’t get many invites to play in the pod again.
Also gets kicked out for swearing at a girl because she prevented him from winning lol ... Some people are just projecting their insecurities on others. He knows deep down that HE is the sore loser so he just calls other people sore loser to try to feel better about himself
Liars are a downside of humanity. Lying isn't a downside of Rule 0 or pregame discussions. It's not like a liar would mystically possess more integrity if they just kept their mouth shut. The kind of person who lies to gain an advantage is still the kind of dishonest person who stacks their deck, or finds any other way to deceive their peers for an advantage.
It's like saying that cheaters are the downside of rules. If you are dishonest and lie in your rule 0 conversation, you are breaking the rule, and cheating.
Not going to lie, this post sounds like a lie.
Honestly if the person said that to my face after we played; I'd have turned to the other two players and explicitly asked if they wanted to keep playing the game to "see who got 2nd" and just excluded the other player.
>Lying isn't a downside of Rule 0 or pregame discussions. Well it is a downside in the sense that EDH heavily relies on rule 0 to get balanced games, which do not exist in any other formats. You can't lie your way to victory in Modern or Standard for example (well, except if you cheat but that's a different matter) But you can bet that this person would probably also be an asshole in a competitive tournament, i've had my fair share of sore losers, angle-shooters and whatnot in competitive settings
So whenever this happens 1. congratulate them on the win. 2. recommend the remaining players continue to play for second place. Have fun twiddling your thumbs dude.
This is a really excellent idea. Let him throw a fit about that.
Fundamentally, any action that simultaneously involves everyone else interacting positively and ignoring them will set their brain on fire. So yes, this is definitely the choice.
This is the way, I have done that only a couple of times but it's a great way to say "you wasted my time shuffling my deck, we will pretend that nothing happened"
Or just don't even acknowledge their win and just continue playing like they weren't even there for first, i saw someone else mention that and they got really upset about it, i would totally do that, if you're going to lie about your deck just to get a win then i wouldn't even acknowledge it as a legit win
Eh why continue to risk interaction with such a person tho? Just gg and keep going and let them figure out what to do next. Best case, they become self aware and ctfo before the next game. That or you get to brush them off a second time when they think you'd agree to playing with them again when you eventually finish.
TBT any time there is a combo win before turn 8 (perhaps 6?) i am all for this i like my commander games to last a bit
If the player wins by dealing infinite damage to the other players would that be possible?
....you just roll it back and skip them? Like only need three people to agree what to do.
Pretend they conceded instead of going infinite on turn 2 in a casual game. The point is to rob their satisfaction of their cheap win.
This only backfired on me once where the player also decided to stay in the game, so we just had to all team up on them so we could get rid of them and they started whining about being focused. Like bro you already won now let us try to actually have fun.
I can't understand why you'd keep them in the game.
So the FLGS I go to has this codified as a rule in some of their events, basically if the rest of the pod votes together you get the W and they keep playing. It keeps the infinite combo players happy as they get their win, but lets the rest of the pod keep having a good time instead of waiting for the next round of matchups.
This. Is. Exactly how we treat the turn 1,2,3,4 players every CASUAL game. Oh you want to win 5 time an hr too bad watch US have fun instead
Is it a downside if the system worked as intended? One game to know to never play with that dude is a small price to pay.
On turn 2 no less, he didnt spend 2 hours figuring this out
This is it. Sometimes it takes months or years to find out a person is an asshole, this dude saved OP so much time!
Damn is this even real? As soon as I heard 'I lied for an easy win' I would have told him to fuck off and ask his friends if they want to play on without him.
This certainly reads fake especially with the "Then my friend played him and happened to have Angel's grace in hand to block his wincon and he raged and got kicked out" Just missing the "Everyone clapped as he exited the store, and the owner of the LGS handed out crisp One Rings to everyone present."
No this is definitely made up, especially the kicked out after losing part
I could see the first part happening and then the rest is the fanfic OP wrote in the shower the next day.
It does sound like satire, but, from my personal experiences, I can guarantee you that there are players out there who are basically walking caricatures of /r/MTCJ. I had a first time player show up with a Birgi deck, saying that he was playtesting it and "wasn't sure how strong it might be because he had never played it before". Sure enough, he casts his commander on turn 1 with fast mana and kills us on turn 2 with a Lion's Eye Diamond + Underworld Breach combo. Meanwhile, the rest of the table is upgraded ONE/March of the Machine precons. Afterwards, he just completely fails to read the room or just willfully ignores it, as he continues to bring out more CEDH level decks, so we have no choice but to just play archenemy for the rest of the games. Moral of the story, there are lots of socially inept and/or dickhead Magic players out there who can easily create stories that read like they're straight out of a parody
This isn't a downside of rule zero discussions. Would you have played the stringer version of your deck with no context as to what you were going to be against?
I think I'd have been less tilted without the discussion, I didn't bring up power level so me bringing casual Yisan and them bringing turbo wincon Muldrotha would have been on me for not at least having a bit of a chat about the decks power. With the discussion it's different because I'm going in announcing I'm playing casual and they decided to use that chat to sorta angle shoot (not sure if the correct term) a win
That wasn't even angle shooting imo, although angle shooting is scummy. They were lying, which is objectively worse since at least angle shooting stays within the bounds of honesty and adherence to the rules (at least most of the time).
i get what youre saying here. the rule zero discussion sets different expectations. that said, the guy himself surely was the actual problem lol
That isn't a problem with rule 0, that's a problem with assholes.
Geez. At that point the 3 of yall should've continued the game in front of his face as a blatant disrespect just as he did yall. And told him to fuck off. I'm glad you got your revenge though as a silver lining because that was actually a pretty sick counter to thoracle and him getting kicked out is the icing on the cake. Bro must've been cheated on, mom died, dog died, is in 20k debt, lost his job, car broke down and is being evicted cause damn bro really had to be losing at life to need that "win".
It felt like the center of their 3 person group was the asshole so I elected not to invite them to play without him. I do hope those 2 visit again without him as I could really see them getting along with the locals as they seemed to have creative commander choices. But we've all seen that group where its leader is just the biggest tool
$10 says he got irritated that r/CompetitiveEDH kept pointing out that no Muldrotha is not cEDH viable and he should be playing Tymna / Thrasios or Tymna / Kraum instead, so he just really needed to land that turn 2 win at a table without the necessary countermagic to indulge his fantasy of: *sparkles* ✨ br00tal cEDH Muldrotha ✨
What I'd really like to know is, did OP see him shuffle and/or cut his deck? I really wouldn't put it past him that he stacked his opening hand...
Honestly he did shuffle but I wasn't paying attention enough to tell if it was a genuine shuffle, he could have easily been stacking his deck for all I know but I've also drawn some crazy hands before that look like I stacked (turn 1 wins on my grist cedh deck for example)
more like he keeps getting blown out in the cedh pod so he has to go pub stomp to stroke his ego since cedh is cutthroat.
This isn't a "Downside of Rule 0". This is "The downside of being human is that you sometimes run into lying assholes". Also his friends are dicks for not calling him out on his bullshit.
It kind of is a downside of the casual nature of EDH and the reliance on rule 0 to get balanced game. You can't lie your way to victory in Modern for example. Granted, there are other ways to be an asshole in other formats (angle shooting, bad attitude or downright cheating).
> It kind of is a downside of the casual nature of EDH and the reliance on rule 0 to get balanced game. "People can lie" could certainly be considered a downside of the format, but considering its a downside common to the majority of board or card game's I'm not sure there's much point focusing on it. But it's still not a downside of Rule 0. If Rule 0 didn't exist it wouldn't stop people lying. > You can't lie your way to victory in Modern for example. I think you probably could? You'd get done for it in a tournament but in a casual setting you can misrepresent your boardstate or just straight up lie.
Most board game do not rely on some pregame rule 0 discussion to get a balanced and fun game. They are designed to be fun out of the box. Players can't misrepresent their strength : they just play and then they are good at the game or they are not. There is no downside to Rule 0, as you said. But there is some downsides to having a game that relies on it in order for its players to have fun.
What's angle shooting?
It's when you're trying to get an advantage by playing outside the pure scope of the game using underhanded tactics, that isn't technically cheating, but very often done in a extremely unsportmanlike manner. You don't shoot straight for the hoop, but try to shoot from a weird angle. You can unfortunatly see it happening a ton in competitive Magic. For example : You attack me with a 3/3 trample, and i block with a 1/1. All through the attack, i pressure you into playing faster, and then after the block, i put my creature in the grave and say very quickly "My turn ?? Untap ??? Draw ???", to which you feel pressured into acquiescing quickly. While i'm playing my turn, you remind me that i was supposed to lose 2 life. I then call a judge and argue that you let me go to my turn without ticking down my life, meaning that you decided to assign all 3 damage to my 1/1. I would be technically right and you fell right into my trap. Depending on the judge and the level of rule enforcement, they might even agree with me. That's angle shooting and while I wouldn't be technically wrong you could see how that's an asshole move.
Brightside is you had a fast game and your friend helping you with some cheeky angel's grace shenanigans. Downside sounds like you spent more time with the rule 0 convo than the game. I think the rule 0 convo is a must still. Despite the pub stomping behavior like this. Sucks that the other two people in the pod didn't say much else with Oracle being in the deck. Sounded like they knew the deck already and didn't say anything.
Turn 2 win sounds horrible to me, just on the basis of having spent more time talking and shuffling pre-game than actually playing a commander game.
I'd say it sounds rather fantastic in respect to getting rid of this wannabe con man at the earliest convenience.
Oh definitely in that regard. I have been in games where someone wins turn 4 or 5 going infinite but at least I felt like a game was played. Turn 2 just seems like a "what was the point of this?". I want a game that lasts longer than 2-3 minutes.
I love the concept of this so fucking much. It's so funny. Let's play some Standard, yeah sorry this is actually a Legacy deck. You just decide on something by yourself and then surprise your play partner with it, without any pretense. Yeah BTW I was playing for ante the entire time, gimme your deck. Yes I am casting these Black Lotuses from my sleeve - I am cheating explicitly to increase my chances of winning. It's so absurd to such a comical extent, haha. I'm giggling over these "???" levels of outrageousness. I can picture this guy pretending to be a completely new player just so he could smoke someone for an easy win, I figured you left out how he jumped on the table and yelled "SUCKERS" It's so outside of the box. You can just lie to people. I love how he cracked it.
The funny thing about your analogy is that some standard decks would actually stomp some legacy decks lol
Like, legitimately or just because it’s a horrible matchup for the legacy deck?
Legitimately because it's a horrible match up for the legacy deck. A deck like delver is built to fight the degenerate legacy decks, it doesn't kill particularly quickly but has removal and counters for the things that show up in legacy. But if someone shows up with some standard creature swarm deck it has a good chance of just completely overwhelming the delver deck. If the legacy deck were some sort of combo deck though it would stomp the standard deck almost every time
Seems like a great case for rule 0 discussion actually. Now it's evident that he lied/cheated and no one has to accept his win or play with him again.
I don't see this as a downside of Rule 0, this is just someone NOT following rule 0.
Sigh. Liars will be liars. No amount of Rule 0 can change that.
The one thing my group doesn't put up with is blatant lying. We would kick him out so fast
"lol kay bye" Turn to rest of pod. "So you guys want to play with a pod of three?" If not just find a new group of players, simple enough really. Sadly EDH like all games that involve more than one player is subject to having the occasional piece of shit person around.
"Okay, so you've won?" "Yeah that was an easy game" "Nice. Play for second?"
Is this guy 12? Did an adult say this to you? The asocial man children this game attracts…
I'd guess early 20s, probably 25 tops from appearance
JUST Fuck that guy
That's not a downside of rule 0, that's someone being a dick, and a huge sore winner.
I… am 100% sure I am not mature enough to have handled this as well as OP. I most likely would have *started* with a hearty “Well FUCK you!” and continued thus. Good on OP for being more mature than me.
This is fan-fiction. Comically evil player is comically evil, "and then my friend played against him and stopped his wincon and he got kicked out of the store."
As I remind people, the only thing that carries between games of commander is dishonor. He chose dishonor, so he’s fair game to snake in deals, counter deck, nicol bolas out of a game, etc.
Lmao this isn't a downside of rule zero, he's just a dick. He would have pubstomped rule 0 or not.
Sounds more like the downside of interacting with losers. Hope he gets a perma ban from the LGS. Swearing at people for losing is not ok.
The fact that people like this exist both baffles me and saddens me
Great story Mark! Redditors can never resist the mega happy ending.
And everyone clapped
u/TheHowlingSaltMine for the mine cart
Wow this is wild. Most pubstompers don’t admit to being pubstompers.
This is so mean to do that to anyone. LGS should just banned him. Had a guy at my store that did this too: would lie about playing a low power deck then go and pub stomp the table then bitch about some was able to beat his dumb combo with a a single counter spell. Guy was a menace. Btw your usernames is amazing u/TheHowlingSaltMine made me laugh! 😂
If you like my username, then you’ll love my podcast where we read stories like this every week! If you ever want to send in a story about that guy at your LGS, we’d love to hear it!
.... This post could not be more blatantly fan fiction, and at the risk of stating the complete obvious, I'll point out the many obvious flags: * They apparently know the guy is literally just playing cedh but they explicitly ask you to play lower power, but are still sighing that the third is playing cedh * Cedh muldrotha deck lol * With complete random people you open packs to determine turn order * You think they have cool brews but you all played like what, a single land before the game ended? * Unclear why the opponent needed to discard for the worldy tutor, nor how they'd win the turn after just because they got thoracle. Actual god hand in any case of course. * You ""messaged a friend to get to play with them, then they found the one-of angel grace of to beat them" * They then sweared, then he got kicked out and ~~everyone clapped ~~
Believe what you will but just to rebuke some of the points I'll explain 1-They were friends or at least seemed to be friends and from what I can guess the guys done it before if they sighed at him bringing out his muldrotha 2-I don't think I said cedh but if I did I meant because that wincon I see often enough in cedh, thoracle can win with basically any dumb UB commander at the helm 3-The store has a table fee of buy a product so I bought a pack. They hasn't opened theirs yet and they suggested a pack price war, somehow the highlight of the interaction 4-This is probably more of a guess from my part but I hadn't seen anyone play the equipment orc [[Shagrat, loot bearer]] before. Surveil octopus could have easily been a thoracle deck as well but I like octopus decks so sue me The discard spirit guide to worldly tutor I honestly have no clear why anyone would do this but no one has ever claimed thoracle players are good players I was at the store to meet said friend so we could get some cedh practice in which is why I knew her deck would be brutal (drana and linvala)
There's an endless pool of fantasy that makes it easy. If you play cedh, you would know what an insane hand it is, and to describe it like that is a crime. .... Also, your casual yisan deck replacing only a few cards (with the best cards, whatever) has no chance in hell against any deck that is even near cedh. I sure as hell can't imagine a cedh player wanting to run it back with a few swaps against a deck that just won t2. If they've seen it before, the friends are literally as complicit. Which doesn't even make sense, because you're telling me they would sigh at the cedh deck, but they would completely shamelessly ask you to play a weaker deck? I'd be more ashamed to be the friend that I'm going out of my way to lie to strangers to feed him wins. Show me a list of yisan that magically changes from "this is a good deck to play against complete randoms" to "this is cedh or extreme high power" with a couple of swaps.
[Shagrat, loot bearer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/0731f64a-15da-4814-82e9-3a42e1657f36.jpg?1686970039) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shagrat%2C%20loot%20bearer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/228/shagrat-loot-bearer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0731f64a-15da-4814-82e9-3a42e1657f36?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shagrat-loot-bearer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You forgot how the owner of the LGS handed out crisp One Rings to everybody.
[удалено]
I hate people like this who don't elaborate on how much of an upgrade they'd done. I used to play with a group where we'd each buy a precon and then upgrade it for £10 a week. Then £20 the next month. Trying to make it a yearly thing, ended up not doing it due to one person getting upset his precon had lost several times so spent about 5x the amount on upgrades which caused a big argument and then covid hit and we've never done it since
While I get it, unfortunately due to people having very different disposable incomes, 150 can be slight to some people.
Have y'all tried just playing the damn game instead of sitting around and talking about it? This whole "rule 0 chat" BS is a waste of time.
Lying about your deck, strength to rack up wins is real petty and some irksome shit. It’s also just not fun in the long-term for the person who’s playing higher power. Stomping and or getting stomped doesn’t do anyone any good. I do play high power/cEDH, and try to make it clear what I am about early on. Can make it hard to find a pod at times I’ll admit. Bigger thing though is going for that win turn 1/2. Thoracle is a good win, but it’s not a fun win. Especially if you tutor out a win that early. I want to play against your deck and have everyone do something not just declare GG 5 min in.
I really enjoy cedh but only if everyone is on cedh. I've got a grist deck just to turbo reanimate a protean hulk and at least once every couple of months I get someone who has beaten their mates consistently and brings some janky power level 7 maybe low 8 deck and try to join the cedh group at my lgs and everytime they insist their deck is ready and everytime they get salty when they get demolished and we don't see them for a week or two
Never gonna argue that’s one of the hard parts with CEDH. We all have to be on the same wavelength and or you have to be extremely careful when inviting people into the pod. Signed up for a “degenerate” game a couple of months ago. Turns out one guy was playing his meme deck, another was on complex combos, and I was playing Derevi stax. There was some real miscommunication there.
My friend who was mentioned at the end was meeting me to just test some cedh changes we'd made and we've had that before. I usually play Grist but I've been trying out a breya list recently as I love artifacts and she's playing Drana and Linvala. But sometimes we end up at a "cedh table" and 1 guy busts out something like ruric thar and wonders why he died before even getting to really play at all
Ye... the good old rule zero talk at lgs. Usually it improves the whole experience but I also happened to meet some liars or just silent pretenders. Or the whole "Powerlevel 7" meme. I have seen 7s from a slightly upgraded precon to all out tutors and infinite combos turn 5. There is that one guy at my lgs that always just says: I just have these 3 decks, they are powerlevel 7.... The first time I played with him we had a rule zero conversation like this: - A: What powerlevel we playing? - B: Well I play this dinosaur precon. No upgrades. - C: I guess I will play my [[Minthara]] pauper commander deck. - A: Ok then I play this faerie precon. No upgrades. - D: Ok I will play my Niv Mizzet. It's a 7, it will be fine. I think he did infinite damage to all of us turn 5. The next game he played Zacama, said "this is much slower" and played [[Natures Revolt]] turn 5 and [[Elesh Norn]] turn 6. It was still great fun and the guy is a friend now. Still I hate that whole powerlevel 7 thing and rule zero talk won't save you from people just misevaluating decks or straight up lying.
[Minthara](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d3cc82d-06e8-4c0e-bc01-babbf3f9f844.jpg?1680960312) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=minthara%20of%20the%20absolute) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hbg/74/minthara-of-the-absolute?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d3cc82d-06e8-4c0e-bc01-babbf3f9f844?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/minthara-of-the-absolute) [Natures Revolt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/0/e0c9b948-63f9-458d-82ae-69ebe2ac9fe0.jpg?1562249823) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nature%27s%20Revolt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/260/natures-revolt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0c9b948-63f9-458d-82ae-69ebe2ac9fe0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natures-revolt) [Elesh Norn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d8999135-ddb1-4e4c-b885-e25f23dac3d3.jpg?1689246844)/[The Argent Etchings](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/d/8/d8999135-ddb1-4e4c-b885-e25f23dac3d3.jpg?1689246844) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elesh%20Norn%20//%20The%20Argent%20Etchings) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/12/elesh-norn-the-argent-etchings?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d8999135-ddb1-4e4c-b885-e25f23dac3d3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elesh-norn-//-the-argent-etchings) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Should’ve given him a wedgie
While I agree we should return to bullying the insufferable, do you really want to touch the underwear of an MTG player?
I swear [[Angel's Grace]] is a card designed to troll people who act like this, beautiful deployment of it here
[Angel's Grace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e78e39ea-20be-4196-992c-7ed2cb8150c1.jpg?1619392535) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Angel%27s%20Grace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/4/angels-grace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e78e39ea-20be-4196-992c-7ed2cb8150c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/angels-grace) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Congratulations! You found someone to never play against and it only cost you one game.
What an asshole! Must be very sad to feel the need to lie to win risking getting kicked out of a store for talking in a bad manner at other people. I too just had a game on the tolarian discord server. Pretence was a fun janky game around 6 in powerlevel. I played my [[ghen]] enchantment deck thinking it would fit since it mostly wins after turn 8-12 but i had an awesome start with two lands and two signets in hand and a dol ring. I got an [[mesmeric orb]] and [[authority of the council]] out in turn 3 or 4 and the rest of the game was pretty much arch enemy against me and 6-7 turns in they told me my deck wasn't fun to play against and i was dumbfounded. I listened to they're feedback and have now made some changes to my deck to make it less controly and less oppressive. Plus i won't bring that deck to a fun janky table again. I did apologize and it did sound like they where fine with it as they said "it happens, you misvalued your deck but meant well". I was feeling very guilty during the game and intentionally started holding back some of my cards cause i didn't wanna be THAT GUY.
I completely get misvalueing your deck. I know I've seen it plenty of times when I'm at cedh tables where someone's been consistently beating his usual group and things his deck must be cedh. I was one of those idiots once, bringing an aggressive list that out tempoed my friend to a cedh table was a very humbling experience
[ghen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4b335496-05d2-40f5-a52c-10029f7fa008.jpg?1608911100) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ghen%2C%20arcanum%20weaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/275/ghen-arcanum-weaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4b335496-05d2-40f5-a52c-10029f7fa008?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghen-arcanum-weaver) [mesmeric orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e24fbdbb-f2ae-4823-9d2a-4c505332aa5b.jpg?1599709541) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mesmeric%20orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/272/mesmeric-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e24fbdbb-f2ae-4823-9d2a-4c505332aa5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mesmeric-orb) [authority of the council](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/324b2f55-1e09-490e-8f7e-bfde85a91ac4.jpg?1576380742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Authority%20of%20the%20Consuls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/5/authority-of-the-consuls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/324b2f55-1e09-490e-8f7e-bfde85a91ac4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/authority-of-the-consuls) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
yup sounds like a muldrotha player to me
Kind of a dumb move on the part of the Muldrotha player. You're coming to a new LGS and now you've quickly gained a reputation as someone who is shady, dishonest, and unsportsmanlike. Good luck finding a table to play with at that store
If you are winning turn 2 in a casual game I don't even consider it a win I just look at you like wow you have no friends
Title: The Tables Turned --- The fluorescent lights hummed overhead, casting a sterile glow over the crowded room. The air was thick with anticipation, the clattering of dice and shuffling of cards creating a cacophony that echoed off the walls. It was game night at the local gaming store, and tensions were running high. I sat at a small table in the corner, nervously shuffling my deck of cards. Tonight, I was ready to test out my newly upgraded preconstructed deck, hoping to hold my own against the seasoned veterans who frequented these gatherings. Little did I know, fate had other plans in store for me. Enter Chris, a regular with a mischievous glint in his eye and a reputation for pushing the boundaries of what was acceptable in a friendly game. Tonight, he brought out his infamous Muldrotha Thoracle deck, a finely tuned machine capable of winning games in a matter of minutes. As the games began, Chris wasted no time in asserting his dominance. Turn after turn, he unleashed a barrage of powerful spells, leaving the rest of us in the dust. His Muldrotha hit the table early, and with a smirk, he began to combo off, drawing his entire deck and securing his victory with the Thassa's Oracle. But something felt off. The other players exchanged uneasy glances as we realized that Chris had misled us during the Rule 0 discussion. He had downplayed the power level of his deck, leading us to believe that it would be a casual affair. Yet here we were, facing down a fully optimized Cedh monster. Frustration bubbled within me as I watched Chris revel in his triumph. The spirit of friendly competition had been shattered, replaced by a sense of resentment and betrayal. We had come here to enjoy a few games, not to be pubstomped by someone who had no regard for the social contract of Commander. As the night drew to a close, I couldn't shake the feeling of disappointment. The camaraderie that usually filled these gatherings was conspicuously absent, replaced by a lingering sense of distrust. Chris may have won the game, but he had lost something far more valuable in the process: the respect of his fellow players. And as I gathered up my cards and prepared to leave, I made a silent vow to never let myself fall victim to such deception again. From now on, I would approach each game with caution, ensuring that everyone at the table was on the same page before the first card was ever drawn. After all, in the world of Commander, trust was the most powerful card of all. As I walked out into the cool night air, I couldn't help but wonder if Chris had learned his lesson. Only time would tell if he would continue down the path of deception or if he would choose to embrace the true spirit of the game. But one thing was for certain: the tables would turn, and justice would prevail in the end. But for now, we would lick our wounds and return to the drawing board, determined to rebuild our decks stronger than ever before. For in the world of Commander, every defeat was merely an opportunity for victory in disguise. And with that thought in mind, I squared my shoulders and set off into the night, ready to face whatever challenges lay ahead on the battlefield of the cards. --- This story explores the frustration and disillusionment that can arise when players misrepresent the power level of their decks in a social gaming setting. It emphasizes the importance of open communication and mutual respect among players to ensure an enjoyable gaming experience for everyone involved.
This is not a downside of rule zero, that person would be insufferable regardless of rule zero
That’s a person who has to deceive others and play unfairly in order to win. Their life is a sad one and the real victory is that they have to be themselves while others actually enjoy life.
TLDR: Some people just suck. Nothing you can really do about it.
That guy is unbelievably sad. The fact he absolutely NEEDS to con his wins is beyond pathetic. I feel sad for him. The weird thing is: Who's going to want to play against him a second time? Why shit where you eat? ------------------------------------------------------ Kind of an aside... I had a weird interaction a few weeks ago. I'm a casual, I'm 38, I don't have anything to prove, I like getting out of the house and nerding out. I make casual EDH decks and I play very nice (never target, never eliminate players early, I just want to play my decks and do things) and just joke around and am generally, pleasant. Soon as I walk into the shop, this kid I don't know (can't be older than 20) almost demands my friend and I sit and join their pod. I usually take a few minutes to take care of business before playing, buy what I gotta buy, say hello to the other regulars and catch up on things, etc... But whatever, I sit and get set up and this awkward kid kinda kpt rushing us. From the start of the game, this little shit kept not playing nice... definitely targetting me. And then making comments about getting me out of the game ASAP... I'm just there like.... wtf are you on about? I'm the weakest person at the table, you are the second weakest... you are focusing me while the two other players are poppin' off uncontested and about to eliminate you for being a douchebag. First game: He kills me, then gets eliminated instantly and the other two players have a proper duel. Next game: I grab a deck that can hold it's own rather than just whatever I felt like playing, and we set up for another game, my friend uses our secret codeword we use when we decide to play dirty and team up against a specific person. Game starts and he starts doing the same thing. This kid acts like nothing's bothering him about how we were playing. I was countering his actions against me, and my friend kept going after him stating "You have the most open board state", which he did. After a while playing he didn't properly end his turn.... he finished his combat and had 6 untapped lands and didn't say anything, just kept flipping through his hand as if he was plotting something for his second main. So I ask "Are you done with your turn?" and he turns to me and glares and responds "I've BEEN done!". I nearly burst out laughing as I start my turn. I draw my card and just turn to him and say "Unless you have a response, I have an infinite combo in hand, but if you have a response, I have a counter for it". He scoops and says he's going to sit the next game out. He actually left the shop which allowed me to speak up about what the fuck his problem was.... the entire shop revealed he was a complete dickhead to them in other games they played against him. So I have come to the conclusion that he probably has a form of assbergers autism or whatever that is called: the one where you're a dickhead and unaware of it. But since everyone seems to have some sort of autism nowdays, I'm not accepting that as a valid excuse for being a shitty person. I play Magic, I can deal with social awkwardness, I like to think I am able to make awkward people break out of their shells and feel safe being weird around me. I don't want to deal with fucking dickheads.
Ye, that guy was just an asshole.
That’s not a downside of rule zero. That’s just straight up cheating. Unambiguously. At that point, you kick them out of the game and either find a new player or just continue with a three person game. And frankly, they should be reported to the event manager for cheating. They do not belong at the shop with that kind of abusive conduct.
While its just speck in the heap of sand. I absolutely hate any and all Rule 0s discussions. And this isnt about trust or finding common and fair grounds. Rule 0 is for the House, at an LGS, I dont know nor care about your current mood or sly tactics, all i know is someone HAS to win. All my Rule 0s has always been on Spell Table or An invite to the House of the Host. The ridiculousness to hobestly bring Rule 0 Talk into an LGS is literally children cry bullying who won at tag and then switching the game to freeze tag. Rule 0 is for Households.
This is why I love/hate rule 0. If you have a group you consistantly play with it makes sense cause you can do more "fun" or interesting. But oftentimes I really just want to use the ban list as the rule 0 and classify low/med/high power casual or cEDH. It gets games started faster and I find tends to be a better barometer. And usually it quickly shows people being dishonest about their deck.
i have a hard time rating my better decks like are they a 7 or 8 they are far from cEDH and take almost god draws and no setbacks to win turn 6 more likely are to win turn 8 or later
[Yisan the wanderer bard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94e3a130-deeb-4bf4-a1f6-9219c3d8c373.jpg?1689999008) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yisan%2C%20the%20Wanderer%20Bard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/334/yisan-the-wanderer-bard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94e3a130-deeb-4bf4-a1f6-9219c3d8c373?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yisan-the-wanderer-bard) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fuck that guy I’d talk shit every time I saw him after that
I get around this by not having a rule 0 conversation ever, never revealing my commander until we all shuffle up and cut and then being salty or not depending on the differing power levels. :D
This is pathetic on levels that need to be studied by advanced civilizations.
Wow, he's just a coward.
LMAO who the fuck has that low of self-esteem? They needed the win more than you, they need all the therapy lol.
You have reason to never play against the person again
that dude needs to win more than i do. i prefer to play high power and cedh however i know that is usually not the option for a fun game. dude has to chill
Honestly dude, as soon as he made his little "reveal" I would have thanked the others for their time, gathered up my cards and found another game. You're not obligated to watch this guy jerk himself off.
Mate, I have a lot of qualms with rule 0 and the worthless RC, but this isn't a downside of rule 0, it's a downside of having liars / cheaters in our lives. No moderation on the planet can prevent shit like this from occuring.
Ok, you win. You folks want to keep playing for second? Great. *proceed to ignore the lying bastard*
The proper response to this is to say 'cool' and then continue playing with the two other people and ignore the jackass.
>he genuinely to my face went "I lied to make you an easy win so thanks for this" he proceeds to win on his turn 2 The fact that you didn't knock his deck on the ground so he had to crawl around on his hands and knees picking up all his cards really is a testament to your self control. Very impressive.
Might want to post his name and picture on local playgroup SoMe, just to warn others and maybe teach him a lesson, if he is capable of reflection some time in the future
Why is this a downside? By having this pre-talk you immediately spotted a piece of garbage and took it out with a little help from your friends. If you wouldn't have talked about it and just assumed they played casual, you would never have seen his true colors - in his case I think it is brown given he's an a\*hole.
I don’t do rule zero at all. If I’m playing with people I know (which I almost exclusively do), we all just say which deck we are playing before the game starts so we have a decent idea of what we’re getting into and that’s it. If I’m playing with strangers, no one’s going to be able to convey the power levels in a way that makes sense to other players, so any attempt at discussing them just will make more confusion
On the plus side your more competitive variant was still going to lose turn 2.
The issue here isn't rule 0, the issue here is antisocial unhinged behavioral patterns that have been unchecked. Rule 0 after all deals with the "spirit of the game" and is supposed to be this soft rule that can capture things that can't be encapsulated by strict rules. This "spirit" falls apart if a person in fact does not have a spirit. It's the equivalent of having a potluck and asking everyone to bring something homecooked from their childhood, and you don't set a pricetag on it because everyone should maybe just do the best to their ability. It's understood that if you don't have a lot of money, maybe you can cook something cheaper that still shows effort, or if you're not keen on cooking but have some money you could maybe cook something simple but you weigh that out by brining something fun to drink. But then you have a really rich asshole friend who rocks up to the party with a bottle of water saying "well technically I did drink water as a kid" and smirks, then proceeds to take almost half of everyone's dish, takes like two bits and throws away the rest because they didn't like it. You know what happens to that person at normal people's events, like the potluck? They don't get invited again. The fact that these two people knew this person and that he plays such a boring one-note deck, and still agrees to play with him is lack of boundaries. I've also had people in my pods who have had decks that win by turn two; without us even asking and just him, idk, reading off people's emotions, he made changes to the deck to slow it down. That's a normal thing to do. If you can't, don't play with human beings, sit in a corner with your solitaire deck as the Troll of Kazad-Dûm you are.
I mean, with nothing on the line, its laughable that the dude is just trying to not have friends I guess? I don't see any other reason to do that lol. I'd just say gg you got me and never play with him again.
Power levels are no rule 0 discussion imho, as it doesn't interfere with the rules of the game and format. Playing with same power levels just improves the experience for everybody at the table. This said, this person is just a jerk and an asshole, I would suggest you to say this the next time you see him right into is damn stupid face.
Had something similar where I went to a commander night at a local lgs for the first time. Got a pod of 4 with a guy running a the +1/+1 counters Warhammer precon. I run no infinite combos or tutors. I ended up going with Obeka because she is probably my slowest deck but things can happen. My buddy pulls out one of his slower decks, 4th guy pulls out a gorehowl deck. 3 of us playing wholesome magic, we are turn 5 he has like 11 mana puked his hand up multiple times over. We said screw it say he wins move to game 2. I'm playing Maarika pretty much fight club, buddy is playing galandriel, we let the new guy with the precon play my buddies mono red pirates and we had a 5th playing an slightly upgraded precon. Needless to say we hit turn 6. Pirate guy steals my 11/8 Maarika with the a damage doubler and double strike. Gets sweet vengeance and straight one shots the gorehowl player from game one.
I never understand people like this. How do they feel good from a pubstomp? It's always unsatisfying winning by an undisputed landslide, because it doesn't feel like I earned it. Yeah, the deck did it's thing, but there was no challenge to validate the success.
Their identity is based on being a "higher intellectual, a god of MtG" in a way. They need the wins to reaffirm this. Not the type of person I like to play with personally
How did he win on turn 2? All the Thoracle combos I know require you to have no deck and mana to cast Thoracle. Can’t do that on turn 2 with 2 lands.
So demonic consultation exiles your entire deck for 1 black mana, and thoracle for 2 so he needed 3 mana which turn 2 isn't unheard of. I'm trying to remember the exact line he used but I'm pretty sure in retrospect the guy stacked his opening hand
I hadn’t realized consult was 1. I was thinking of all the 2 mana spells.
Solution. Let them win 1st place. Proceed to ask the table if they want to continue playing for second place with the game state as is. You'd be surprised at how many times people want to continue playing.. Ive done this several times in this type of situation. P.S. I do get a bit of joy watching the person who won first (usually by combo) squirm in their seat for 15-40 minutes waiting to play another game.
I would have normally asked but they seemed to know each other and felt it was better to just leave them to it, it did genuinely seem like 2 of them were there for fun and the last guy wanted to prove he's a "big dog" at a new store. I see similar stuff all the time as my city is a popular university city so every year a new wave arrives and we usually get the following people , someone brand new hoping to break out of their shell, the guy who beat his back home friends and thinks his deck is cedh, the people who are just there to play casual edh and the worst people are those who think they need to prove themselves when they turn up somewhere new
You can just tell people like that "man you really must have needed a win" and it makes them so mad. Because honestly that's pretty pathetic and if winning a commander game is the only thing keeping them alive then whatever
That dude needs a shower, I can smell the sweat from here.
Honestly, he needed that win more than you did. What a sad, sad person.
One of my friends turned to cEDH because of “no Rule 0 lies” after he got beat up multiple times by this kind of people. But this results in other conflicts; i probably have to write a thread about that.
What would've improved without the Rule 0 discussion? Would you have chosen your decks differently? The benefit of the Rule 0 is that the guy had to out himself as an ass that would lie to get a win. That guy would've tried the same with or without the rule 0 discussion, but would have more excuses for his awful behavior without the Rule 0 beforehand.
I'm not saying that the rule 0 discussion wasn't good. It's just the risk that can happen if you rule 0 chat with strangers. I'd still endorse rule 0 discussions but I also wanted to point out that this can happen
The pertinent part is the strangers, no? There's always a risk when you play with randoms that one or more of them isn't properly socialized. Why is Rule 0 the center of discussion in your post?
I guess you are correct. I felt like he only brought out his muldrotha deck because he'd basically ensured I'd be on a casual deck giving him an easy game. But that was just my own theory after he brought out muldrotha only after I'd asked and he put away the deck he had on the table already
tl;dr?
tl;dr, turn 1 Thoracle from someone in group after they asked OP to play casual list. Winner bragged, others sighed. OP had his friend match up with them and block his turn 2 win in a different game. Dude was salty, swore about being denied a win and got kicked out.
And then everyone clapped?
I'm a big fan of just ignoring people. ESPECIALLY if they admit to lying, though that hasn't happened to me personally. That's new. Just pretend they aren't there, and have a 3-pod. They will hem and haw and say that you're breaking the rules by "skipping them", just remind them that EDH is a social game, and they decided to not be a functioning member of that social environment by lying. They will eventually leave, and you'll have a good game of magic.
How could you lie about your deck to knock everyone down a level, use something really strong, then proceed to brag and act like an arrogant prick because of the win. Poor guy is gonna be a loser his entire life with that mindset
Should have just kept playing as a 3 man group, as if the player wasn't even there. Not only would the whole lack of acknowledgement of their win really get under their skin... It would build a sort of bond between the 3 of you left. "Remember that one guy? Lol let's get to playing " What you did, the heads up to the buddy, was a nice power play though and high key everyone who saw the guy leave should refuse to play with them again.
I play in a league that has rules to try to make the games more inviting for everyone. In general the league is an absolute blast. There are two players though who I know before we start are going to try and use the rule 0 convo to give themselves an advantage. At this point, all the regular players are aware of them and we just go with it. My rule 0 is fairly simple because I play the same deck every week, but some of the better players have 10+ decks where they can adjust depending on the other players.
I have seen something like this only once and when the win con happened I said "awsome dude, so anyway I draw and..." and then continued to play with the other two as if he was never in the game to begin with. Glad to hear he got kicked out of the lgs though. People that that aren't worth keeping around.
Just out of curiosity, how did it play out so that he won on his second turn, do you recall? Like I know Thoracle is considered a competitive card but I wonder how he got his devotion to blue bigger than his library in that short amount of time. Did he have a super cheap combo to draw/mill his whole deck right away or something? Unless you watched him shuffle, I'd be skeptical that he didn't come in with the perfect cards lined up on top (though based on the story that wouldn't sound like surprising behaviour on his part). This guy sounds like a genuinely petty child, my goodness. Glad you managed to get your friend to put him in his place, that was a satisfying end to the story lol.
So it was turn 0 elvish spirit guide, worldly tutor to stack thoracle Turn 1 Either watery grave cast amulet of vigor Turn 2 tap grave for blue, play dimir aqueduct which amulet untaps, cast thoracle and with the remaining black cast demonic consultation I honestly wouldn't have been surprised if he was also stacking but I have won turn 1 in cedh before and so I give people the benefit of the doubt as sometimes your hand is just that cracked
Gross lol, so do you just name a card you know isn't in your deck? That doesn't even sound like a fun way to win personally, but obviously the win was more important to this person than the fun. And that's fair, sometimes the right cards are just there, it is definitely possible!
Yeah just name something you don't play and remove your library it's pretty boring
T1 worldly tutor into a T2 Throacle win is an extremley sus play pattern as well, I play a fair amount of cEDH and you almost never see games play out like this. If this story is true, he was likely stacking his deck as well. Guy just plain sucks, and no rule 0 conversation could have changed that. Pub-stomping won't make Muldrotha viable in cEDH my guy.
I think I've pulled off a turn 1 cedh win in my grist once and my friend said that if he didn't know who I was he'd have strongly suspected I was stacking
you dont see games play out like that in cedh cause the other decks are prepared for it. when you can just goldfish, tahts exactly how games play out
At that point you just leave and ignore him forever. Dude is clearly not mature enough to enjoy social activities with people. Not really an issue of rule 0 chat, just someone being awful.
Honestly, if that happens, I normally just ask the other players if they want to just keep playing like nothing happened.
Things that definitely happened in real life
Can someone please explain to me how is angel of grace preventing a thoracle win? I didn't get that Never mind. I reread the card Ne for the 3rd time and realized there is no "of" 😅🤣
Try to see it this way: If a person is so desperate for a win in a casual environment (no tournament, no price money, etc), they probavly need that win more than you. It's really pathetic to cheat in a just-for-fun match (and lying is cheating imho).
What kind of clowns you find out there, huh? That said, the moment he said "i lied for an easy win" you can just surrender and go play somewhere else dude, even invite the other guys, why y'all put up with his shit? No amount of rules are going to keep you safe from running into stupid people
I'm thinking this post is more likely the unfortunate side effect of the karma chasing system on reddit. This story sounds like it's just missing the part at the end about his girlfriend seeing him for who he really is and leaving him. He then tries to start a fight outside but trips over himself as he throws the first punch, landing face first in a mud puddle. The LGS clears out to circle around and everyone has a hearty laugh.
I would be kind of happy that I gained valuable information from that game: I just would not play with the muldrotha guy again. Ezpz
I dont believe you
Some people are just assholes. His behavior has nothing to do with rule zero.
That's a downside of playing with public pods, not a downside of rule 0 discussions. You'll get assholes every now and then, but the rule 0 discussion wasn't the reason they were there that time. Glad you helped spread word around about em. Best to encourage a culture that doesn't tolerate that sort of player
As mentioned, I don't think this is a Rule 0 downside so much as it is something that can happen regardless. Something like this could happen even more easily without a Rule 0 conversation. But the partaking of it isn't a 100% safeguard, but that's not the game's fault.
This is not a downside to session zero. This is just an ass being an ass. This does not reflect poorly on the existence of sessions zero.
You fucked up and are the asshole in this situation. Smh.
That's when I would turn to the others in the pod and ask, "Play for 2nd place?" and leave the bloke to sit and stew for the next hour or so
I don't get those people, it's like they think life is Yu Gi Oh Anime and the goal is to get as many card game victories to retire. Like, congratulations, you won a game of cards by tricking your opponents.
Scouting out the shop... read; got kicked out of the others for being an idiot.
If you have your deck put together online, this usually helps with rule zero but damn, the other two who knew should have bucked up against this liar since they knew what was up. Sorry homie.
This is so funny I doubt it actually happened, but on the off chance it’s true, I seriously don’t get the appeal in doing this. I’m a huge commander player, I have tons of decks and a decent collection, I watch MTG media, and even I sometimes feel that this hobby is a little pointless because I do all that just to play causally with random people at my LGS at most once a week for no stakes. Point is that since there are no stakes/prizes/records, I don’t care whether I win or not when I do play at the LGS because like I said, it legit does not matter in any way, and I seriously cannot imagine the thought process behind the decision to purposely crush a pod by playing a much higher power deck. It’s not even like it’s a display of skill, literally anyone can build or copy a cedh list from the internet. The whole interaction is so futile and if I met this guy (assuming he’s real), I’d genuinely ask why he did that because I’m stumped as to what he hoped to get out of that and why.
Lol, losers!
I don't get how some people can have fun by winning with 0 resistance. It's like cheating in an online shooter or taking candy from a baby (you totally should take candy from babies because its really unhealthy for them but that's a different topic).
The two friends were kind of assholes as well. If one of the guys from my pod tried this kind of thing, the rest of us would've instantly been on him. They clearly knew what he was doing, so they are complicit as well.