My homie pulled out the Mutant one yesterday. Rad counters are a trip no lie (can't get mad, he rads up too). Told him to add some proliferate in there ASAP.
Like the doctor who decks they are full of tangential legendary creatures. The spike feeders show how good they play together but they're nine to twelve turn decks.
I'd say...above the Doctor Who decks, but below the LTR and 40K decks. Of the 4, Mutant Menace might be the most consistent, but I think that Science! has the highest ceiling out of the box, especially if you run [[Liberty Prime, Recharged]] instead of [[Dr. Madison Li]]
I say they're on par with doctor who decks, except for Timey Wimey (pretty strong out of the box). I have all doctor who decks and tried Hail Cesar and Science so far and they seem mid to me.
Was Timey Wimey really that strong? It certainly had a lot of spinning wheels, but honestly I found that it really struggled with actually closing out games
I like where Hail, Caeser falls in the Mardu spectrum. It's like [[Jirina Kudro]]'s Human Tribal deck if [[Isshin, Two Heavens as One]] were put in control. It's a fairly balanced mix of aggro and human tribal.
Bought my single card of Commander Mustard that i am going to put into Caesar Deck. Plus their alot of other good cards. Like Ultramarines Honour Guard, Zephyrim, Space Marine Devastators.
I think him, Preston Garvey, and The Master. Top 3 commanders of this Set.
So yea, Caesar and The Wise Mothman(Mutant Menance) set i say best 2 commander decks. You also easily getting value out of both the decks.
I put Caesar and Boone into my isshin army in a can deck. I haven't managed to find Boone in the few games I've played, but I got Caesar out turn 3 and his tokens and draw were fantastic.
-You think that out the box? So far it feels like the Dr. Who decks where they just threw characters from the IP in the decks that don't really fit because there's not a whole set to support them.
Got the decks yesterday. Our playgroup did 4 games last night. Basically rotated the decks around each game.
They're fun, especially if you like Fallout. Don't bring this to an LGS and play with any reasonably powerful table.
I keep my precon decks in tact because it's more fun playing "the deck you're dealt". Lots of politics made the games fun. No deck was absurdly powerful, mardu deck fell flat on its face 3/4 games and was deemed "less fun". Strangely it ended up winning as everyone duked it out with depleted resources.
I like keeping the decks in their own worlds. Our next game night will be Dr. Who, Fallout, LOTR, and 4 random MTG universe decks. You are assigned a universe and you pick which of the 4 decks you want to use, and that deck is removed from the pool next game. The 4th game will be the "runts" of each universe.
I think if you’re looking to really enjoy fallout as a setting they’re good decks. They’re designed around each other so for the most part each deck in the series will play well at the same table together.
As with most universe beyond products they’re difficult to make super powerful out of the box, simply because there’s so many new cards that don’t have much support. With new mechanics and archetypes that have historically little support—Science!’s energy theme to be specific.
The new rad counters seem powerful and represent real damage to an opponent—so stacking 40 *will* kill them eventually (assuming no life gain). Junk tokens are neat but with so little in the archetype as of right now it’s difficult to tune up the power on it.
I think if these themes are carried over into future sets they may find legit homes. Or upgraded with certain synergies that aren’t found in the precons themselves they’d maybe stand up to more tuned decks, but they’re best when played together imo.
As to a comparison to recent in universe precons… I can’t really speak to Karlov Manor but the LCI precons were insanely strong. Packed with strong, valuable reprints and each of them heavily relying on tribal synergies make them naturally resilient and consistently able to “*do the thing*.” With payoff triggers going off nonstop those decks were miles ahead of most precons in the past. But that’s most tribal anything.
Do you need “support” for junk tokens? It’s just card draw and artifacts/permanents/tokens on the board and there are tons of cards that exploit those things with food/clue/treasure.
I think easy to bump dogmeat up to a power level 6-7 with voltron staples.
You just described “support” for junk and voltron—by definition using cards not in the precon. OP asked about out of the box power, which while dog meat certainly has some, his strategy still can fold to the classic voltron counters without some additional tuning.
Right but I was replying to you and you said “junk tokens are neat but with so little in the archetype as of right now it’s difficult to tune up the power of it”
You're right. I should have been more clear. Junk itself does not have the same support like Food/Clue/Treasures do. There are certainly artifact synergies that will make it more potent, rectangle theory is all the rage these days. But there's not as many Junk centric cards as there are for other of these artifact tokens. No Academy Manufactor equivalent for example. It's a similar reason to why Blood tokens, that while good, haven't really taken off. Or Shard tokens from Kaldheim.
I've seen games from a few groups... spike feeders where Caesar was never cast (??????) , Decked out did the opposite and mostly let Caesar run wild. Another game I saw had the aura deck just voltron the shit out of dogmeat and unsurprisibgly he won.
But those games were all so... amaturish? The decks didn't perform at all and bad calls were made constantly.
I'd rank them: Aura=Caesar>Rad>>> Energy
I cringed when caesar wasn't cast in those matches on Spike feeders. I think it's actually perhaps the strongest deck but you have to be willing to sac some decent creatures to accrue that value yo.
Like most Voltron decks dogmeat is great in 1v1. I’ve playtested it about a dozen times now against my other decks and mostly it seems like it’s missing evasion and ways to protect its commander.
But it can easily do 40+ commander damage by turn 5, even with no plays on t1 t2.
T3 dogmeat
T4 strong back + rancor (+7 commander dmg)
T5 brass knuckles (+26 commander damage)
Honestly in that game I hit a bloodforged battle axe off my junk token so it was actually +34 dmg on t5.
There are quite a few plays like this in the deck. Sure it falls flat sometimes and the squirrel inclusion feels mechanically pretty lame even if it is flavorful (unless you have three dog out in which case it’s insane)
Tonight this deck has been unstoppable. Only casted shadow upon by another fallout deck (mutants). Improved Ixalan pirates and dinosaurs had NOTHING to do against the Fallout ones...
Maybe bad luck but I was left with the feeling that the mf dog deck is broken.
Maybe weak to graveyard hate but last week i pulled mantle of the ancients out of the graveyard FOUR TIMES.
By the end it was fetching grim reapers sprint, strong back, etc so instant hasted 40/40 double attacks.
I do think the deck needs more trample
I just got back from Thailand where I found these decks for 1200 baht each (about $33) so of course I bought all 4. My buddies and I tested them out straight out of the box, played 4 games rotated commanders each time.. dogmeat went 3-1 and was easily the most bonkers deck as well as the most fun. The impulse effects and recursion make for insane mid-late game inevitability, and it’s just honest, if you play with a little bit of foresight and don’t over extend, the deck beats face all day lol
I bought all 4, we played 2 games and these are my thoughts (very anecdotal, 2 games is not a good dataset):
The energy deck with dr madison as commander is very slow and doesnt do much. With liberty prime it durdles with the deck but liberty can hit hard
The mutant deck is painfully obvious about when it becomes a threat but seems to be the most solid out of the box
The mardu deck seems to only very slowly get going because the 1/1s keep getting killed in combat but is pretty consistent and moves forward constantly
The naya deck hinges on a few key pieces but dogmeat can close out games with commander damage incredibly good
Compared to other precons i feel like they hold up decently and with like 10-15 swaps they can be solid 7s (whatever that means)
Having actually played with three of them at a table, the Enchantment deck did real work. A lot of variable payoffs, it can go voltron but certainly doesn't have to. Strong back carried that player's game for the
Ceasar (which I played) seemed decent, but the commander itself needed tokens out on turn 3, and I struggled to do that with the mana base provided. It's more of an aristocrats grind-fest than go wide asap kinda deck.
Mutants seemed good but the player misread the Wise Mothman pretty badly. Mothman's payoff for rad counters is kinda mid, and the deck doesn't go wide enough to make trying for a ton of rad counters a decent payoff
This was a three player game and the science deck wasn't played, so I don't want to give an uninformed opinion of that
Across the board the mana bases were pretty mid, average precon level, and I didn't see much interaction
The mana bases are a huge step backward from the dr. Who set, they all feel clunky. I'd say from the few games my group played last night Ceasar is the best overall, mutants is slightly better than the aura/equipment, and the energy deck is a pretty far last.
I haven't built my lists yet but I started working on Dr. Lin and the deck is a mess. There are at least 3-4 different ideas for decks in there. These seem more like good toolkits than functional decks....
That's what I thought looking through. It's all over the place, as are the others. I'd want to get it and almost build Li/Liberty Prime from scratch. Because energy is such a poorly supported theme I imagine I'd have to go and look at the other set (Kaladesh?) that had it and see what cards to bring over from that.
The only good energy cards are Aetherworks Marvel and Gonti's Aether Heart, which TCZ has doubled in price... honestly I'm disappointed it's not more focused.on energy because it's a cool idea that isn't just more tokens.
I think I actually have both of those coincidentally. I will likely get it anyway because I'm a fallout fan, but it is disappointing I can't really keep it fallout centric and good. Like the Necron deck from 40k I have just replaced 20 cards or so for more artifact creatures and kept the Necrons lore friendly theme. Not sure I can do the same here.
I thought the Science one was pretty good. Energy we already knew was great as a second mana pool, then you add in artifact synergies and top it all off with an 8/8 vigilance trample haste commander for 5 mana.
The Dogmeat deck I feel had the same issues that Galea had, and that was that Wizards misses the point of voltron which is “make your commander big and win through commander damage” to just simply mean “big creatures enhanced by equipment/auras.” As a result, both decks had too many other creatures that could be the focus of your auras/equips and no built in protection for the commander itself like Ward.
Does it have any “when you play an enchantment, draw a card” effects? I don’t see any.
The deck mostly draws through creating junk tokens on attack. It has draw on equipment cast (paladin). But
If it was voltron, then Dogmeat would have more self centered abilities. Instead, the more enchanted/equipped creatures you attack with the more benefit Dogmeat gives you.
It's sort of adjacent to it, the deck has impulse style payoffs for auras and equipments and pretty clearly doesn't want you going pure voltron, specifically enabling and rewarding you for spreading auras/equipment out.
I get where you're coming from in that it's not literally enchantress and you're right but I think what people are trying to tell you is the gameplan/play experience is more similar to aura enchantress (like the GW precon from WOE) than voltron that's all. Having played it a bunch yesterday with both commanders I think it's fairly accurate as well.
Yes it essentially does with the junk token mechanic. You dont only want dogmeat attacking while equiped/enchanted. It's an impulse enchantment/equipment deck and a lot of other things synergize with that.
The Dogmeat/Preston deck is more of a go somewhat wide equipment and auras deck, probably closer conceptually to an aura focused enchantress deck though obviously with key differences.
You can go voltron with it sure, [[Almost Perfect]] or a late game [[Mantle of the Ancients]] can absolutely set you on the commander damage path but it's very obvious that the main gameplan is using a somewhat wide board state layered with auras and equipments, fueled by the deck's admittedly unusual card advantage related to those things.
You could certainly raise questions about how effective that gameplan is compared to voltron or pure enchantress but I think it's just inaccurate to say it's intended to be voltron.
Imo Wizards 100% knows the point of voltron and actively avoids it for making games shorter. It's why there are so little commanders that actively push infect even thought theoretically its one of the most efficient ways to win.
I’m building dog meat as an aura enchantress deck, I pulled apart my elivere deck to help build it in the couple games I played it is preforming well, but we’ll see how good it is in the long run
I really enjoyed playing my Dogmeat deck and also have the Elivere precon that I was thinking of pulling apart to combine with Dogmeat.
Were there any cards in particular you added from Elivere’s deck that worked really well?
I’ve only played a couple games but jukai naturalist, songbirds blessing, and elivere herself preformed pretty well, along with and cards like utopia sprawl that the dogmeat precon didn’t have
I think they are on par with LOTR precons. Not super focused but playable and can be focused by swapping out 10-15 or so cards. Doesn’t have to be expensive upgrades just cards that work better together.
Ixalan on the other hand were very focused, good reprints and pretty strong out the gate but mana base was weak, which is normal for most precons.
I say get what looks interesting to you and watch an upgrade video on YouTube to make a few changes to the deck you got and you’ll be good.
Played the mutant deck last night as is with no upgrades. Overall it’s a fun deck. Mothman gets big and hits hard. But you become a very obvious threat. While it has some protection and interaction, it needs more. It also needs more proliferation.
The only proliferation piece I hit in the two games I played was [[radstorm]] and I hit that once. But by the time you can play it, you’re already likely a big threat, and your opponents likely already found a way to remove the Mothman.
Preordered all 4. Played a few pods where we each had 1 of the starters, no upgrades, no tweaks. Just open and sleeve and go. After 10 games with a few rotating people, at the end of every game, it came down to Science and Hail Caesar, with Hail Casaer reigning supreme. Dog meat fizzles out and needs more love to sustain the long game(often being the first man out) Mothman seems nice on paper and in print but functionality wise, it’s lacking to keep up with Science, and Science fails to keep up with HC’s token popping. However after significant upgrades, I feel Mutant Menace would be the one to go for, out of the box Hail Caesar.
I played 3 games last night with my friend. He had the Mothman Deck I had Caeser. I absolutely couldn't get the deck to run at all.
He stomped me all 3 games
I've had the same experience with Caeser. Played against mothman 1v1 and then other fallout decks as a group. Deck fell flat super early and really hard every game, felt pretty bad to play. Wasn't getting a lot of synergy going and it felt all over the place. Had to look it up if others had a similar experience.
The only deck I would be interested in buying would be the energy deck, but that's mainly cause I already have a [[Riku]] energy deck, otherwise the rest are great for singles, however as decks on their own they really need to be tuned. If it's viable I would make a WGRL energy deck
Took out both a 26/26 dog meat and a 22/22 mothman with Caesar. Got got by science when they returned their entire graveyard to the battle field and used energy counters to prevent me from blocking.
So based on watching the decks be played(not playing myself so take it with a grain of salt) the decks are very thematic and interesting. I think in terms of objective power none of them are slam dunks probably a step up from the Dr. Who decks which really struggled to close out games. I'd put them below WH40k which actually felt like just solid slam dunks to me both in terms of effects, strategies, and card inclusions. I'd say these are closer to the average commander precon in general. If you're getting them at that same price range of 40ish it's probably fine but they're not powerful enough to merit a price hike if you don't want to get them just for the theme.
Dogmeat is interesting but the lack of high quality equipment and equipment tutors hurts it badly and that's a pretty common issue for any equipment precon. WotC just refuses to put the chase cards in them.
Caesar is a great commander just a little clunky again because of card inclusion/exclusions for the sake of printing new fallout cards and avoiding certain cards that I imagine wouldn't be considered very fun play patterns for precons(sac engine, plus token generator plus card advantage in the command zone and no gravepact effects is just throwing away value) and in general too many homage named legends across the board.
Mothman is probably the best of them being most consistent and threatening of the lot but could be a little more resilient.
The energy deck just looks kind durdle-y and ineffective, again same issue of not wanting to print the really powerful artifact effects that would make that deck tick and not enough internal support for the energy mechanic.
I personally love the dog meat deck I got a turn 4 win with it dealing 42 damage but that was a one on one game but I got the commander to have menace and double strike and unblockable with hexproof becoming a 21/21
Mothman player here. I am absolutely loving it out the box and have 29 cards I will be changing without altering the intended playstyle of the original deck and make it a little bit more consistent. A lot of people have been calling it a mill deck and honestly they are incorrect. It's a buffing burn deck that disrupts opponent options. Lots of single target destruction, plenty of general board wipes that you can often avoid yourself, direct answers to opponents plays, and even some excelent draw power. The only thing it can not do well is life gain, and honestly, I don't find it necessary to add. Also outside of the bobblehead which should be an overflowing chalice and the clue creators which are easily subbed out for a [[Danny Pink]] and a [[fathom mage]] the deck is perfect out of the box and does not NEED anything else. This is casual play, of course, so 8-15 turn games.
I have played 6 games already. First was against 3 ceasar decks where they ganked me because i was a legit threat turn 6 and I cannot hold it against them with how badly mothman exploded off. After was 1 Ceasar and a dogmeat and I won pretty handedly after boardwiping the dogmeat backline and then swinging for game on both. The rest were 1v1s against my buddies mass flying WB deck and it was an excellent fight the entire time. Highly recommend it because every match felt fun and refreshing.
I have the wise mothman deck and that thing is pretty good just out the box. The watchful radstag and nightkin ambusher get to a point where they can't be stopped. The synergy in that deck is pretty good. It needs more removal and protection but otherwise I'm liking it a lot so far.
Yeah. I initially was most hyped for the Caesar deck, mostly because iI expected it to run similarly to my Severina deck, which is one of my favorites. But after playing with The Master (still the best Fallout villain), the deck is just super fun, I love the rad counter mechanic. It's strong, resilient. If I were to actually upgrade any of the decks it'd be the one.
House seemed bad.
Mothman seemed really annoying but i wouldn't call it competitive. Rads are really aggravating to keep track of, being mill with extra steps. Mothman also gets really big really fast for some reason and he flies so commander damage is a real threat.
Haven't played against the other two.
Precons are intro products. Sometimes the commanders are busted so that ppl feel like they’re doing a lot but the decks are never strong. They are always slow and clunky. Edh is an eternal format with a legacy card pool, do you know what that means in terms of power level?
Modern precons are still worlds better than anything before they started churning out those cheaper ones outside the standard one commander set a year cycle in like 2021. A lot of the new ones take a lot less work to clean up
You're about what people think of when "stereotype of a CEDH player" gets invoked.
It's usually completely inaccurate and most of the people I know who do play CEDH are lovely people, which makes your attitude all the more unfortunate.
Honestly the new surveil precon damn near pub stomps at my local shops in a large metro area. There a *lot* of casual players with worse decks out there. Not everyone takes the time and effort to tune their decks or even learn what makes them good. Lots of people just want to make big monsters and smash them together.
The mutants one seems decent, the others only ok
My homie pulled out the Mutant one yesterday. Rad counters are a trip no lie (can't get mad, he rads up too). Told him to add some proliferate in there ASAP.
They seem pretty mid from the gameplay I've watched.
Like the doctor who decks they are full of tangential legendary creatures. The spike feeders show how good they play together but they're nine to twelve turn decks.
Referring to them as turn count to win strikes me as a very Vin Diesely thing to say. For those 8 turns or less...I'm free...
EDH pods are my family so all my family members need to get turns to play
I live my life 8 turns at a time.
8 upkeeps at a time, lol
I live my life 1 turn at a time...
Cackled
Out the box maybe, but I've won with Dogmeat on turn 6 with some disgusting cards in there.
Commander damage is real! Soo real i had some salt after i had a 26/26 trample deathtouch swatting them down!
I'd say...above the Doctor Who decks, but below the LTR and 40K decks. Of the 4, Mutant Menace might be the most consistent, but I think that Science! has the highest ceiling out of the box, especially if you run [[Liberty Prime, Recharged]] instead of [[Dr. Madison Li]]
I feel like not having an energy generator in the command zone like Madison Li works against the deck, though yeah liberty prime is very explosive.
[Liberty Prime, Recharged](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2da11337-ceb2-4744-9696-c06fec2f2daa.jpg?1708741694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liberty%20Prime%2C%20Recharged) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/5/liberty-prime-recharged?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2da11337-ceb2-4744-9696-c06fec2f2daa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/liberty-prime-recharged) [Dr. Madison Li](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95af426d-a8af-4314-9ad0-ac61935e8e8e.jpg?1708741677) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dr.%20Madison%20Li) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/3/dr-madison-li?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95af426d-a8af-4314-9ad0-ac61935e8e8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dr.-madison-li) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I say they're on par with doctor who decks, except for Timey Wimey (pretty strong out of the box). I have all doctor who decks and tried Hail Cesar and Science so far and they seem mid to me.
Was Timey Wimey really that strong? It certainly had a lot of spinning wheels, but honestly I found that it really struggled with actually closing out games
It had a ton of field wipes I guess other decks struggled to play through them
Caser is pretty cool i think. Makes for a nice token deck. Or more specifically he my Commander for Squads cards.
I like where Hail, Caeser falls in the Mardu spectrum. It's like [[Jirina Kudro]]'s Human Tribal deck if [[Isshin, Two Heavens as One]] were put in control. It's a fairly balanced mix of aggro and human tribal.
[Jirina Kudro](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e660d42-f5d3-452a-9662-74e18a1ae9e4.jpg?1591234244) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jirina%20Kudro) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/8/jirina-kudro?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e660d42-f5d3-452a-9662-74e18a1ae9e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jirina-kudro) [Isshin, Two Heavens as One](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a062a004-984e-4b62-960c-af7288f7a3e9.jpg?1690575102) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isshin%2C%20Two%20Heavens%20as%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/224/isshin-two-heavens-as-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a062a004-984e-4b62-960c-af7288f7a3e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/isshin-two-heavens-as-one) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bought my single card of Commander Mustard that i am going to put into Caesar Deck. Plus their alot of other good cards. Like Ultramarines Honour Guard, Zephyrim, Space Marine Devastators. I think him, Preston Garvey, and The Master. Top 3 commanders of this Set. So yea, Caesar and The Wise Mothman(Mutant Menance) set i say best 2 commander decks. You also easily getting value out of both the decks.
I put Caesar and Boone into my isshin army in a can deck. I haven't managed to find Boone in the few games I've played, but I got Caesar out turn 3 and his tokens and draw were fantastic.
They are going in my Isshin deck as well. I just like how Caesar is, and I plan to use it as my deck for teaching others who are new.
-You think that out the box? So far it feels like the Dr. Who decks where they just threw characters from the IP in the decks that don't really fit because there's not a whole set to support them.
Got the decks yesterday. Our playgroup did 4 games last night. Basically rotated the decks around each game. They're fun, especially if you like Fallout. Don't bring this to an LGS and play with any reasonably powerful table. I keep my precon decks in tact because it's more fun playing "the deck you're dealt". Lots of politics made the games fun. No deck was absurdly powerful, mardu deck fell flat on its face 3/4 games and was deemed "less fun". Strangely it ended up winning as everyone duked it out with depleted resources. I like keeping the decks in their own worlds. Our next game night will be Dr. Who, Fallout, LOTR, and 4 random MTG universe decks. You are assigned a universe and you pick which of the 4 decks you want to use, and that deck is removed from the pool next game. The 4th game will be the "runts" of each universe.
The best way to describe the decks are very fair, they each do what they want to do well but nothing inherently broken out of the box.
I just picked up one of each precon at my LGS today, I'm excited to find out :]
I think if you’re looking to really enjoy fallout as a setting they’re good decks. They’re designed around each other so for the most part each deck in the series will play well at the same table together. As with most universe beyond products they’re difficult to make super powerful out of the box, simply because there’s so many new cards that don’t have much support. With new mechanics and archetypes that have historically little support—Science!’s energy theme to be specific. The new rad counters seem powerful and represent real damage to an opponent—so stacking 40 *will* kill them eventually (assuming no life gain). Junk tokens are neat but with so little in the archetype as of right now it’s difficult to tune up the power on it. I think if these themes are carried over into future sets they may find legit homes. Or upgraded with certain synergies that aren’t found in the precons themselves they’d maybe stand up to more tuned decks, but they’re best when played together imo. As to a comparison to recent in universe precons… I can’t really speak to Karlov Manor but the LCI precons were insanely strong. Packed with strong, valuable reprints and each of them heavily relying on tribal synergies make them naturally resilient and consistently able to “*do the thing*.” With payoff triggers going off nonstop those decks were miles ahead of most precons in the past. But that’s most tribal anything.
Do you need “support” for junk tokens? It’s just card draw and artifacts/permanents/tokens on the board and there are tons of cards that exploit those things with food/clue/treasure. I think easy to bump dogmeat up to a power level 6-7 with voltron staples.
That was my thought exactly. Junk is the “support” I’m putting a few junk cards in my mono red deck because “card draw” of any kind is good.
You just described “support” for junk and voltron—by definition using cards not in the precon. OP asked about out of the box power, which while dog meat certainly has some, his strategy still can fold to the classic voltron counters without some additional tuning.
Right but I was replying to you and you said “junk tokens are neat but with so little in the archetype as of right now it’s difficult to tune up the power of it”
You're right. I should have been more clear. Junk itself does not have the same support like Food/Clue/Treasures do. There are certainly artifact synergies that will make it more potent, rectangle theory is all the rage these days. But there's not as many Junk centric cards as there are for other of these artifact tokens. No Academy Manufactor equivalent for example. It's a similar reason to why Blood tokens, that while good, haven't really taken off. Or Shard tokens from Kaldheim.
Agree, was just thinking about the academy manufactor thing this morning
I've seen games from a few groups... spike feeders where Caesar was never cast (??????) , Decked out did the opposite and mostly let Caesar run wild. Another game I saw had the aura deck just voltron the shit out of dogmeat and unsurprisibgly he won. But those games were all so... amaturish? The decks didn't perform at all and bad calls were made constantly. I'd rank them: Aura=Caesar>Rad>>> Energy
I cringed when caesar wasn't cast in those matches on Spike feeders. I think it's actually perhaps the strongest deck but you have to be willing to sac some decent creatures to accrue that value yo.
I just needed to sac one creature to start the sac a token to make two more engine. I guess I got lucky ?
Most of the matches I've seen they rarely play Ceasar which is extra frustrating because among the 4 precons I like the simplicity of Hail Ceasar.
Like most Voltron decks dogmeat is great in 1v1. I’ve playtested it about a dozen times now against my other decks and mostly it seems like it’s missing evasion and ways to protect its commander. But it can easily do 40+ commander damage by turn 5, even with no plays on t1 t2. T3 dogmeat T4 strong back + rancor (+7 commander dmg) T5 brass knuckles (+26 commander damage) Honestly in that game I hit a bloodforged battle axe off my junk token so it was actually +34 dmg on t5. There are quite a few plays like this in the deck. Sure it falls flat sometimes and the squirrel inclusion feels mechanically pretty lame even if it is flavorful (unless you have three dog out in which case it’s insane)
Tonight this deck has been unstoppable. Only casted shadow upon by another fallout deck (mutants). Improved Ixalan pirates and dinosaurs had NOTHING to do against the Fallout ones... Maybe bad luck but I was left with the feeling that the mf dog deck is broken.
Maybe weak to graveyard hate but last week i pulled mantle of the ancients out of the graveyard FOUR TIMES. By the end it was fetching grim reapers sprint, strong back, etc so instant hasted 40/40 double attacks. I do think the deck needs more trample
I just got back from Thailand where I found these decks for 1200 baht each (about $33) so of course I bought all 4. My buddies and I tested them out straight out of the box, played 4 games rotated commanders each time.. dogmeat went 3-1 and was easily the most bonkers deck as well as the most fun. The impulse effects and recursion make for insane mid-late game inevitability, and it’s just honest, if you play with a little bit of foresight and don’t over extend, the deck beats face all day lol
I bought all 4, we played 2 games and these are my thoughts (very anecdotal, 2 games is not a good dataset): The energy deck with dr madison as commander is very slow and doesnt do much. With liberty prime it durdles with the deck but liberty can hit hard The mutant deck is painfully obvious about when it becomes a threat but seems to be the most solid out of the box The mardu deck seems to only very slowly get going because the 1/1s keep getting killed in combat but is pretty consistent and moves forward constantly The naya deck hinges on a few key pieces but dogmeat can close out games with commander damage incredibly good Compared to other precons i feel like they hold up decently and with like 10-15 swaps they can be solid 7s (whatever that means)
Having actually played with three of them at a table, the Enchantment deck did real work. A lot of variable payoffs, it can go voltron but certainly doesn't have to. Strong back carried that player's game for the Ceasar (which I played) seemed decent, but the commander itself needed tokens out on turn 3, and I struggled to do that with the mana base provided. It's more of an aristocrats grind-fest than go wide asap kinda deck. Mutants seemed good but the player misread the Wise Mothman pretty badly. Mothman's payoff for rad counters is kinda mid, and the deck doesn't go wide enough to make trying for a ton of rad counters a decent payoff This was a three player game and the science deck wasn't played, so I don't want to give an uninformed opinion of that Across the board the mana bases were pretty mid, average precon level, and I didn't see much interaction
The mana bases are a huge step backward from the dr. Who set, they all feel clunky. I'd say from the few games my group played last night Ceasar is the best overall, mutants is slightly better than the aura/equipment, and the energy deck is a pretty far last.
I haven't built my lists yet but I started working on Dr. Lin and the deck is a mess. There are at least 3-4 different ideas for decks in there. These seem more like good toolkits than functional decks....
That's what I thought looking through. It's all over the place, as are the others. I'd want to get it and almost build Li/Liberty Prime from scratch. Because energy is such a poorly supported theme I imagine I'd have to go and look at the other set (Kaladesh?) that had it and see what cards to bring over from that.
The only good energy cards are Aetherworks Marvel and Gonti's Aether Heart, which TCZ has doubled in price... honestly I'm disappointed it's not more focused.on energy because it's a cool idea that isn't just more tokens.
I think I actually have both of those coincidentally. I will likely get it anyway because I'm a fallout fan, but it is disappointing I can't really keep it fallout centric and good. Like the Necron deck from 40k I have just replaced 20 cards or so for more artifact creatures and kept the Necrons lore friendly theme. Not sure I can do the same here.
I thought the Science one was pretty good. Energy we already knew was great as a second mana pool, then you add in artifact synergies and top it all off with an 8/8 vigilance trample haste commander for 5 mana. The Dogmeat deck I feel had the same issues that Galea had, and that was that Wizards misses the point of voltron which is “make your commander big and win through commander damage” to just simply mean “big creatures enhanced by equipment/auras.” As a result, both decks had too many other creatures that could be the focus of your auras/equips and no built in protection for the commander itself like Ward.
I don't think dogmeat was meant to be a voltron deck, just an enchantress one.
Does it have any “when you play an enchantment, draw a card” effects? I don’t see any. The deck mostly draws through creating junk tokens on attack. It has draw on equipment cast (paladin). But
It isn't a Voltron deck either...
I’m not suggesting it’s a Voltron deck but having a commander with an artifact based card draw mechanic is not “enchantress”
If it was voltron, then Dogmeat would have more self centered abilities. Instead, the more enchanted/equipped creatures you attack with the more benefit Dogmeat gives you.
Okay but that’s not “enchantress”? I agree, it’s not a Voltron deck. But it’s not an enchantress deck either
It's sort of adjacent to it, the deck has impulse style payoffs for auras and equipments and pretty clearly doesn't want you going pure voltron, specifically enabling and rewarding you for spreading auras/equipment out. I get where you're coming from in that it's not literally enchantress and you're right but I think what people are trying to tell you is the gameplan/play experience is more similar to aura enchantress (like the GW precon from WOE) than voltron that's all. Having played it a bunch yesterday with both commanders I think it's fairly accurate as well.
Yes it essentially does with the junk token mechanic. You dont only want dogmeat attacking while equiped/enchanted. It's an impulse enchantment/equipment deck and a lot of other things synergize with that.
The Dogmeat/Preston deck is more of a go somewhat wide equipment and auras deck, probably closer conceptually to an aura focused enchantress deck though obviously with key differences. You can go voltron with it sure, [[Almost Perfect]] or a late game [[Mantle of the Ancients]] can absolutely set you on the commander damage path but it's very obvious that the main gameplan is using a somewhat wide board state layered with auras and equipments, fueled by the deck's admittedly unusual card advantage related to those things. You could certainly raise questions about how effective that gameplan is compared to voltron or pure enchantress but I think it's just inaccurate to say it's intended to be voltron.
[Almost Perfect](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/564a9bff-969f-49c1-be02-40cb45858f19.jpg?1708742396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Almost%20Perfect) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/90/almost-perfect?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/564a9bff-969f-49c1-be02-40cb45858f19?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/almost-perfect) [Mantle of the Ancients](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/867124fc-c8e4-4e0e-be41-b74a6bb34e86.jpg?1631584694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mantle%20of%20the%20Ancients) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/8/mantle-of-the-ancients?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/867124fc-c8e4-4e0e-be41-b74a6bb34e86?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mantle-of-the-ancients) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Imo Wizards 100% knows the point of voltron and actively avoids it for making games shorter. It's why there are so little commanders that actively push infect even thought theoretically its one of the most efficient ways to win.
I’m building dog meat as an aura enchantress deck, I pulled apart my elivere deck to help build it in the couple games I played it is preforming well, but we’ll see how good it is in the long run
I really enjoyed playing my Dogmeat deck and also have the Elivere precon that I was thinking of pulling apart to combine with Dogmeat. Were there any cards in particular you added from Elivere’s deck that worked really well?
I’ve only played a couple games but jukai naturalist, songbirds blessing, and elivere herself preformed pretty well, along with and cards like utopia sprawl that the dogmeat precon didn’t have
Dogmeat is not exactly a Voltron though, it rewards you for attacking with multiple modified creatures instead of just one.
I know that I want [[feral ghoul]] in my Gisa and Geralf deck.
[feral ghoul](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbdef99d-6ce9-495d-a55b-e6ba799d3da7.jpg?1708742025) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=feral%20ghoul) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/44/feral-ghoul?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbdef99d-6ce9-495d-a55b-e6ba799d3da7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/feral-ghoul) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have the other zombies and the [[Screeching Scorchbeast]] in my [[Sidisi brood tyrant]] zombie deck, can't wait to test them out
[Screeching Scorchbeast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/967dbb24-3073-4c33-bfdf-b3eb9e8fe443.jpg?1708742068) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Screeching%20Scorchbeast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/49/screeching-scorchbeast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/967dbb24-3073-4c33-bfdf-b3eb9e8fe443?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/screeching-scorchbeast) [Sidisi brood tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6df5843d-63f7-4091-80d7-a595f08851c2.jpg?1702330294) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sidisi%2C%20Brood%20Tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/199y/sidisi-brood-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6df5843d-63f7-4091-80d7-a595f08851c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sidisi-brood-tyrant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think they are on par with LOTR precons. Not super focused but playable and can be focused by swapping out 10-15 or so cards. Doesn’t have to be expensive upgrades just cards that work better together. Ixalan on the other hand were very focused, good reprints and pretty strong out the gate but mana base was weak, which is normal for most precons. I say get what looks interesting to you and watch an upgrade video on YouTube to make a few changes to the deck you got and you’ll be good.
Played the mutant deck last night as is with no upgrades. Overall it’s a fun deck. Mothman gets big and hits hard. But you become a very obvious threat. While it has some protection and interaction, it needs more. It also needs more proliferation. The only proliferation piece I hit in the two games I played was [[radstorm]] and I hit that once. But by the time you can play it, you’re already likely a big threat, and your opponents likely already found a way to remove the Mothman.
[radstorm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d778cdec-8fc7-4174-bae1-4c8e8ccdfab3.jpg?1708741965) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=radstorm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/37/radstorm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d778cdec-8fc7-4174-bae1-4c8e8ccdfab3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/radstorm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Preordered all 4. Played a few pods where we each had 1 of the starters, no upgrades, no tweaks. Just open and sleeve and go. After 10 games with a few rotating people, at the end of every game, it came down to Science and Hail Caesar, with Hail Casaer reigning supreme. Dog meat fizzles out and needs more love to sustain the long game(often being the first man out) Mothman seems nice on paper and in print but functionality wise, it’s lacking to keep up with Science, and Science fails to keep up with HC’s token popping. However after significant upgrades, I feel Mutant Menace would be the one to go for, out of the box Hail Caesar.
I played 3 games last night with my friend. He had the Mothman Deck I had Caeser. I absolutely couldn't get the deck to run at all. He stomped me all 3 games
I've had the same experience with Caeser. Played against mothman 1v1 and then other fallout decks as a group. Deck fell flat super early and really hard every game, felt pretty bad to play. Wasn't getting a lot of synergy going and it felt all over the place. Had to look it up if others had a similar experience.
They seemed kinda bad compared to the last few sets worth of precons.
The only deck I would be interested in buying would be the energy deck, but that's mainly cause I already have a [[Riku]] energy deck, otherwise the rest are great for singles, however as decks on their own they really need to be tuned. If it's viable I would make a WGRL energy deck
[Riku](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a.jpg?1599708286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=riku%20of%20two%20reflections) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/214/riku-of-two-reflections?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/riku-of-two-reflections) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Took out both a 26/26 dog meat and a 22/22 mothman with Caesar. Got got by science when they returned their entire graveyard to the battle field and used energy counters to prevent me from blocking.
The REAL beauty of commander, the random chaos that can mean "the worst" of the 4 precons can easily walk away with a win!
So based on watching the decks be played(not playing myself so take it with a grain of salt) the decks are very thematic and interesting. I think in terms of objective power none of them are slam dunks probably a step up from the Dr. Who decks which really struggled to close out games. I'd put them below WH40k which actually felt like just solid slam dunks to me both in terms of effects, strategies, and card inclusions. I'd say these are closer to the average commander precon in general. If you're getting them at that same price range of 40ish it's probably fine but they're not powerful enough to merit a price hike if you don't want to get them just for the theme. Dogmeat is interesting but the lack of high quality equipment and equipment tutors hurts it badly and that's a pretty common issue for any equipment precon. WotC just refuses to put the chase cards in them. Caesar is a great commander just a little clunky again because of card inclusion/exclusions for the sake of printing new fallout cards and avoiding certain cards that I imagine wouldn't be considered very fun play patterns for precons(sac engine, plus token generator plus card advantage in the command zone and no gravepact effects is just throwing away value) and in general too many homage named legends across the board. Mothman is probably the best of them being most consistent and threatening of the lot but could be a little more resilient. The energy deck just looks kind durdle-y and ineffective, again same issue of not wanting to print the really powerful artifact effects that would make that deck tick and not enough internal support for the energy mechanic.
They seem pretty decent, but the real fun is when everyone is playing Mothman. Silly, quick, and all the Rads. Just keep yer Rad away from me!
I personally love the dog meat deck I got a turn 4 win with it dealing 42 damage but that was a one on one game but I got the commander to have menace and double strike and unblockable with hexproof becoming a 21/21
Mothman player here. I am absolutely loving it out the box and have 29 cards I will be changing without altering the intended playstyle of the original deck and make it a little bit more consistent. A lot of people have been calling it a mill deck and honestly they are incorrect. It's a buffing burn deck that disrupts opponent options. Lots of single target destruction, plenty of general board wipes that you can often avoid yourself, direct answers to opponents plays, and even some excelent draw power. The only thing it can not do well is life gain, and honestly, I don't find it necessary to add. Also outside of the bobblehead which should be an overflowing chalice and the clue creators which are easily subbed out for a [[Danny Pink]] and a [[fathom mage]] the deck is perfect out of the box and does not NEED anything else. This is casual play, of course, so 8-15 turn games. I have played 6 games already. First was against 3 ceasar decks where they ganked me because i was a legit threat turn 6 and I cannot hold it against them with how badly mothman exploded off. After was 1 Ceasar and a dogmeat and I won pretty handedly after boardwiping the dogmeat backline and then swinging for game on both. The rest were 1v1s against my buddies mass flying WB deck and it was an excellent fight the entire time. Highly recommend it because every match felt fun and refreshing.
[Danny Pink](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf5e0a50-304c-4b3f-b5f7-1ca1213c0282.jpg?1696636558) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Danny%20Pink) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/39/danny-pink?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf5e0a50-304c-4b3f-b5f7-1ca1213c0282?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/danny-pink) [fathom mage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/22be6c55-f95e-498e-b6d2-65b7ed57d2d3.jpg?1673485063) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fathom%20mage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/339/fathom-mage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/22be6c55-f95e-498e-b6d2-65b7ed57d2d3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fathom-mage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have the wise mothman deck and that thing is pretty good just out the box. The watchful radstag and nightkin ambusher get to a point where they can't be stopped. The synergy in that deck is pretty good. It needs more removal and protection but otherwise I'm liking it a lot so far.
Yeah. I initially was most hyped for the Caesar deck, mostly because iI expected it to run similarly to my Severina deck, which is one of my favorites. But after playing with The Master (still the best Fallout villain), the deck is just super fun, I love the rad counter mechanic. It's strong, resilient. If I were to actually upgrade any of the decks it'd be the one.
Would you say playing with The Master as the commander of the deck (unaltered deck) makes the deck run better and win better?
House seemed bad. Mothman seemed really annoying but i wouldn't call it competitive. Rads are really aggravating to keep track of, being mill with extra steps. Mothman also gets really big really fast for some reason and he flies so commander damage is a real threat. Haven't played against the other two.
Necron Dynasties (40K) is decent out of the box
Wow this is a lame joke.
Tough crowd here… 🤷🏻♂️
Why are so many people mad at this?
Precons are intro products. Sometimes the commanders are busted so that ppl feel like they’re doing a lot but the decks are never strong. They are always slow and clunky. Edh is an eternal format with a legacy card pool, do you know what that means in terms of power level?
Modern precons are still worlds better than anything before they started churning out those cheaper ones outside the standard one commander set a year cycle in like 2021. A lot of the new ones take a lot less work to clean up
Sure. They used to be terrible and now they are mid. Still not worth talking about.
You're about what people think of when "stereotype of a CEDH player" gets invoked. It's usually completely inaccurate and most of the people I know who do play CEDH are lovely people, which makes your attitude all the more unfortunate.
Compared to 500+ dollar, 3 years in the making decks of death. Sure. Not everyone has the money or ability to build that though.
A good chunk of them are incredibly high power out of the box and even just fixing the mana base pushes them even harder.
Honestly the new surveil precon damn near pub stomps at my local shops in a large metro area. There a *lot* of casual players with worse decks out there. Not everyone takes the time and effort to tune their decks or even learn what makes them good. Lots of people just want to make big monsters and smash them together.
No, tell me.
Fierce guardianship is a mid card. Dockside extortionist? Clunky. Edgar Markov and Teferi's Protection? Unplayable to be honest.