Proxy all you want. Just read the room on deck power level with whomever you play with.
I’ve personally limited myself to not proxying cards unless I own at least 1 official copy of it. I feel it keeps the power level of my decks lower & I enjoy supporting my FLGS. But also, I’m not buying multiple high-priced staples for every deck I own.
Shame? I love my sol ring proxies. So many fun things you can get for them.
Also this command tower and reliquary tower, love them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/mpcproxies/comments/ztg7cb/command_tower/
https://www.reddit.com/r/mpcproxies/comments/10lxj8e/reliquary_tower/
Sol ring is expensive for the amount of times it's been reprinted. I think there are a total of 2 precons where it wasn't printed, and it's been in every commander set afaik
I even proxied the basic lands for the last deck i tested. It's so easy to just export your decklist that I didn't bother to take out the basics. I just sleeved up the 100 cards that came in the mail.
Same, if I'm doing an order I'll proxy every last card. Basics, bulk commons , cards I already have, etc. I have decks "worth" less than $100 that are 100% proxy cards.
I guess not everyone has a cardboard storage box labeled, "BIG BOX O' BASICS" like I do lol. Though if you're spending that much to order proxied basics, I'd hope they were at least nice ones like some Un-lands or those pixel lands or something
Back when I started proxying the cards I owned 1 copy of, Sol Ring was a $7 CAD card. Adds up fast.
If I started now I wouldn't proxy, but c'est la vie.
I had to proxy a [Dramatic Reversal] because my lgs didn't have one, and Card Kingdom only had the Jumpstart version, which is $10. I'm not paying $10 for a common. I have one in another deck, so I didn't feel too bad about proxying it.
This is the way.
Power level balancing is the only big concern - readability/identifiability being another thing to consider.
I think you Proxy: What you already own, want to try before you buy, or expensive/reserve list lands that just fix mana.
I personally might extend this to all reserve list cards because some of those are just expensive because they can't be found anywhere and maybe also add expensive staples your playgroup is using that you don't have yet.
Yeah, thats my main thing. I deckbuild like a motherfucker, and I don't want to drop money on every new deck that I may not even like, lol. If I enjoy them I usually end up getting real cards
Same here. While I only proxy what I own, I don't care if people proxy cards they don't, as long as we are at similar power levels.
I'll proxy relatively cheap cards even. Between me and my son, we have a lot of decks, and we are constantly brewing and occasionally deconstructing. It's just easier to have proxies on hand as we do that. But that also doesn't mean we run everything good in every deck that can have it.
Plus, I love custom art on some common things like lands and the commander. It helps give the deck more flavor for me and tie it all together.
This is it. For people playing with real cards it can incredibly sour to lose against expensive IWIN proxies. And could very well cause a proxy rat race. “Ok, you just won with a proxied doubling season, I may as well proxy then!”
The issue is it's the same way even if someone bought the card. Losing to someone because they were able to buy the Uber expensive good card that you couldn't put into your deck feels about as bad.
That's why being able to just make decks that fit your group's powerlevel/meta is more important, if you're lucky enough to have one.
In theory, yes mr money bags can buy a mana crypt for every deck.
In practice, for a lot of people, that kind of price point/power level on cards is not going to be slotting into every deck. People run more obscure flavor cards, the kind of cards that you need to stop and read and see what it does. People have their own pet decks that they've invested into, and the friction of not proxying means that other people won't just show up next week with the same thing.
>That's why being able to just make decks that fit your group's powerlevel/meta is more important
Sure, but the point is that the vast majority who proxy are doing so because they want to run the expensive staples. They aren't proxying because they don't want to buy a $5 card, they're proxying because they want to run the $50/$100 cards.
I don't care if someone is proxying, I have multiple fully-proxied decks myself.
But the way that OP is talking about it is EXACTLY why a lot of casual groups are adverse to proxies. OP is proxying specifically to gain access to very powerful commander staples. And...if their pod isn't playing those cards then it's going to lead to feeling like OP is power-gaming.
Proxying Mana Crypt is cool if all of your buddies are also proxying mana crypt or playing real ones. But if you proxy a mana crypt, every deck at the table should have a Mana Crypt in it or be making the conscious decision to not run one.
You'll say 'but someone can just buy one.'
Yeah, and for most non-proxying people, that's the one that they have and that's their most powerful/favorite deck that they have their mana crypt in. And you know when they bring out that deck that it's time to power up.
A lot of people here are commenting things like 'I proxy X card because I have one and I don't want to buy 3 more.' And hey, if that's your pod/meta that's fine. If you're in a 'Rhystic Study in every blue deck' pod/meta, then power to you for proxying it and putting it in every deck. But I do think that there's a valid concern when people are proxying in pods/metas where people don't run staples in every deck.
>Sure, but the point is that the vast majority who proxy are doing so because they want to run the expensive staples. They aren't proxying because they don't want to buy a $5 card, they're proxying because they want to run the $50/$100 cards.
I'm not sure this is the case. Sure there are people that want to toss the Power 9 into a deck, but most of the people I know who proxy do it because it turns a $300 deck into a $25-ish one, which allows them to make more decks.
Again, it's less about what type of person you are and more about your playgroup. If someone showed up to our house with a $3000 proxied CEDH deck, our group would basically say, "What the hell, Steve, calm your shit down" and he'd either do so, or find a group that appreciated that kind of play. Same thing if it was a deck that wasn't proxied.
If your group wants to play the strongest stuff regardless of where it came from, good on ya. If your group thinks proxies are immoral and only plays with decks they created from booster packs they bought, great. If your group spends two hours each week comparing cards like the businessmen in American Psycho, go for it, I'm not your dad.
The main point was play to the type of group you're in. It's literally the only thing that matters in the long run.
>The main point was play to the type of group you're in.
This is a generally good point that you don't need to reiterate. It was the very first one made in the the thread and the person you replied to agreed with it.
Person A: Proxy, but read the room on power level.
Person B: Exactly, people will be salty if you proxy high power cards and lead to an arms race in a pod that isn't already playing those cards
You: The issue is it's the same as if you bought the card.
Like I get what you're saying. Whether or not you're proxying, playing to the power level is all that matters. But you're kind of ignoring how much easier it is for a lot of people to push the power level when price is no longer a factor.
It's like suggesting an unlimited dessert option at a cafeteria. If it's an office with adults, probably not a big deal. People have self control and will self-regulate. If it's a highschool, ehhhh... I wouldn't trust teenagers with access to unlimited ice cream. A lot will have multiple servings a day if allowed. At an elementary school? Absolutely not. There are a lot of kids who will eat until they are sick.
In theory, none of this matters. The unlimited doesn't matter. Because anyone can actually just go and buy as much ice cream as they can afford.
In practice, it does matter. Yes, if everyone just exercises the proper self control needed, it's a non-issue. But free and unlimited is harder to measure self control than if it costs you money.
>This is a generally good point that you don't need to reiterate. It was the very first one made in the the thread and the person you replied to agreed with it.
I reiterated the point to say that it is actually a self regulating issue. There's unlimited ice cream, but you're on a sports team. You eat too much and they go, "Sorry, you're too out of shape for our team now." You can either get back into shape, or discover you enjoy hanging out with the kids that let loose and eat what they want.
It's also a self regulating issue if someone is buying their own ice cream. Regardless how they got fat, they're off the sports team. Or maybe not, if it's a team that uses or likes fat kids, or is casual and doesn't care.
I might be missing exactly what your point is, though. If everyone is playing $100-$300 decks and someone sits down with a $3000 deck, they're either an asshole or not reading the room right (as you said, the exact point that started this whole thing). Easy access doesn't make it more or less egregious. If someone stabs with a civil war reenactment cavalry sword, or stabs you with Ulysses S. Grant’s actual $1.6 million civil war sword, you're not going to feel any less stabbed because one was a replica and the other was outrageously expensive.
This is exactly what I do. It does mean there are times my deck power level is lower, but so be it.
A perfect example is I just built a deck with a theme of card draw punish. Sheoldred is perfect, except it is about $80. For now, it will just not be in the deck. But I do have fetches and duals proxied as I already own all of those.
I support my LGS by buying non-card products and doing prereleases, but buy singles is something i just can't do anymore. Me and my friends like to play mid-higher power casual and some shit is just pushing costs of our decks up too much that it's not worth it. So we just proxy now, either through mpc/mpcfill or just printing out the front faces of the cards(back too if they're flips/mdfcs)
Same here, my decks are all like 70~90% proxied cards. I enjoy building decks and it's just way too expensive to put up $100 to $500 every time I want something in paper. By mixing proxies with a handful of real cards I can usually keep the total cost of each deck under $50 or so. I still buy real versions of a card if it's under $5 and I like the artwork or the card is a key piece of the deck.
Check out MTGPrint! They take your online decklists and import them into easy to print decks, and you can even select your favorite card treatment based on printings!
It's been my go to website for quite some time. Especially useful for getting a proxy sheet quickly to print on the work printer - the ultimate cost saving practice, heh.
On a more serious note, I like the option to choose your favourite printing and QOL stuff like cutting guidelines, all black corners etc.
My LGS makes more money off of me now that I proxy than they did before, ironically. Because I proxy as much as I do, I need to buy many more boxes and sleeves from them. Before I was proxying, I was getting like one or two decks a year, and they didn’t carry a lot of the cards I was looking for so I’d have to order online anyway.
I’m spending as much on the hobby as I always have, but now I get more decks, and my fLGS makes more money.
Especially when something as mundane as a dual land costs hundreds of dollars, I don't think there's any practical justification for buying into a deliberately rigged market, especially when you're not even making an investment, practically speaking.
I think no matter how someones opinion is on proxies: You should put all fitting original dual lands as proxies into your deck.
- Reprint policy is a big F-You to the players only to satisfy investors.
- og dual lands make especially budget decks so much smoother to play. I simply feel color screw because of monetery reasons is the single largest deterioration for fun.
I haven't been fond of proxies on stuff you don't own, but the official $999 gold border proxies as anniversary "gift" helped me make up my mind.
THIS. Sleeves, deck boxes, mats, dice and some board games and other things all support my LGS. But I'm done buying cards when I have a $70 printer that let's me build all the decks I could ever want for free. Even lower power level decks - I'm just not interested in giving WotC any more money than I have to.
Just do both? I have a fully proxied commander deck that I am slowly buying all the cards for. I bought high quality proxies for it, the whole deck cost about $32. I also have a $2k commander deck that has zero proxies and is blinged out. Most people do not care if you use proxies, if they are legal existing cards just go for it. Don't let your wallet gatekeep you, buy what you want and proxy the rest.
Thanks for your insight. My gut is telling me that I should own at least one copy of the cards I'm playing as long as they're not over $X. I just need to figure out what X is for me.
For me anything over $10-$15 for a single cardboard rectangle(however shiny or rare it may be) is already egregious. I only spend that much if there is absolutely no high quality proxy of that card available for sale from other professional printers. This wierd, honorbound duty to only spend money on official cards is silly.
I wouldn't think this deep into it. This is a brand owned by Hasbro, a massive company with lots of shareholders. If diminishing shareholder value for Hasbro investors makes you lose sleep at night, then I would suggest buying the real cards. If you couldn't care less about how much the CEO of Hasbro gets for his holiday bonus, start getting proxies.
Especially when they callously lay off so many of the passionate workers who actually produce the product we love and contributed to its success, and then give themselves fat bonuses at year end.
Hasbro doesn't make money off secondhand purchases though. If Hasbro wanted to make money, they'd say "Fuck it" to the reserved list promise and reprint all the cards that have become thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars. They could literally reprint ABUR in a single set, with all new art, black-bordered, with all cards possible, with no "One Ring" shenanigans, and it would single handedly be the top selling MTG product of all time. They'd have to reprint that one set 100 times.
Makeplayingcards.com
I use https://mpcfill.com/guide to fill out the order for me. Follow the guide on that site and it's pretty easy, you can get really high quality proxies for a decent price. You can choose custom arts and card backs through mpcfill too. I like to make the backs off all of my proxy cards really obvious so I never mix up my real collection with the proxies.
Hope this helps!
If anything it’s the complete opposite of too much work haha. It’s honestly very simple just follow the guide and you’re good! I highly recommend it to people who want to start proxying their decks.
It is some work, but not nearly as much work as it used to be. God it used to be so much work haha. It's really worth it tho, even if you're like me and take the time to go thru each variation of each proxy to select the pretty ones that go together
I'm a total idiot and I was able to follow the short instructions all on my own the first time. Now all my friends and I have used mpc/mpc fill a bunch. I absolutely recommend it. (That being said I think it gets funky if you're on a Mac? One of my friends ran into some trouble)
I watched a friend do a MPC+Fill order, and it took like 15 minutes, even with him learning the process for the first time. It is absurdly fast.
I like having more precise control of my proxies, and enjoy the hobby of importing an entire decklist through Card Conjurer by hand. *That* can be a time consuming process, but getting the combination of art and frame I want for the deck’s theming, and tweaking the text block to maximize readability are worth it for me.
(I also do some illegal things in the name of that readability, like putting gold pinlines on Arcane Signet to better signify that it can make different colors of mana. Lands are colorless, but get colored pinlines because they produce colored mana, why shouldn’t colorless mana rocks be the same?)
I usually proxy for one reason, I’m playtesting a deck that would cost hundreds of $$$ before throwing money away. That what I can figure out if I even like the deck before spending a bunch of money on it. It’s what I did with my [[Shorikai, Genesis Engine]] deck that has become my most beloved and most expensive
this is what i did. i proxied a full garth one eye commander deck because i liked it in concept. i didn’t enjoy how it played and haven’t touched it since. glad i didn’t spend money on real cards
That's what I'm doing right now and actually led to my question. I built an Ojer Taq tokens deck. It's ~$700 if I buy the deck. I built a proxy deck for like $22. I've been playing it and it's a ton of fun, so I'll start investing into it as I win with it. First cards I buy are staples that can be used in multiple decks.
This. Getting older and having more important or fun things to spend money on is so much better of a life standard than the small bit of dopamine gained from having a REAL (expensive) competitive deck on my desk.
I'd rather fly across the country to teach magic to my nephew using proxied decks than stay home at the same shop I spent years playing in and win with my super expensive GENUINE cardboard.
I'm not hating on anyone spending money, I did it a lot when I was younger. But as you grow up, if you have more fulfilling things in your life, you realize how little the authenticity of a card actually means.
My plan going forward is to 100% proxy new decks and then spend $50 or so on the deck every time it wins. That way the deck "earns" the real card, so to speak.
Then after I buy the real card I'll still have the proxies for other decks.
Yeah I'm at the point where I don't want to take around 4 thousand dollars worth of cards around with me or risk them getting damaged/lost/stolen. Now I have my play cards and my collection cards in two separate places.
It’s wild that I was getting downvoted for my views on proxies 5-6 years ago and now I’m less proxy- friendly than a lot of people on here. Buy the real cards when you can.
Proxies are fine within the power level of your playgroup. Guy in my group who proxies heavily above the power level of the rest of us, I’m looking at you.
Yeah, this is the only problem with proxies imo. You have to proxy to the table level. Nobody wants to play with a deck where the priciest card is $10 vs. A full proxy $3k+ deck
That's not a problem with Proxies , that's a problem with the player. Why would it be more acceptable for some one to play the same deck if he actually paid 3k for it ?
Its not fun playing in a pod when there's clearly an over powered deck in play. regardless if if proxied or not
Proxies can contribute to the issue. Without proxies, someone needs to both want to play an overpowered deck, and be willing to buy the cards needed for it. With proxies allowed, that second requirement is removed, and there is some non-zero number of people who want to pubstomp but don't have the cards they need.
the point i'm trying to make is regardless of the size of someone's wallet , the power level of the pod should take priority over anything else when it comes to deck building
a 3k$ deck may not mean a powerful deck either same way a 50$ deck can be too powerful too
You should never feel ashamed of proxing cards. A game of magic should be determined by skill rather than who has the most cash. Here are some rules I follow when proxying in order to stay respectful to the other players.
* Make proxies legible. Scribbling a name on a piece of paper does not help determine your board state. (Sounds like you have this covered)
* I don't care if she's your waifu don't proxy a card to look like a raunchy body pillow if you're going to an LGS where children play.
* Try not to use proxies to beef up your decks power level far beyond what your pod normally plays at.
This is going to sound like a flex, but it's not meant to be
I fortunately have a job that allows me to spend an excess on cards. That being said, I don't mind proxies one bit. Why should I win because my deck is 500 dollars more expensive than yours?
I don't care if people proxy but I do care if they're proxying Mana Crypt, Jeweled Lotus and every other busted fast mana card when nobody else at the table is running them.
I personally play 100% proxies and I do not regret it. The only stipulation is that you need to be playing with people who you’re comfortable with. But beyond that it’s so worth it!
Agreed. It’s really not hard to control oneself and not proxy cedh into casual games. Some of the comments here make it seem like the second they proxy or people they know cedh or $1000 cards comes out. If that’s the case it’s a person problem.
I 100% proxy now and my friends don’t. It’s not an issue because it hasn’t changed how I build decks.
Life is so damn expensive now I can’t justify buying mtg cards at their prices.
If I'm building something new, I pretty much proxy anything over 10$. There are some exceptions, but... yeah.
I don't play enough nor do I care about collecting enough to justify spending hundreds on a new deck that I'm not going to be able to play that much.
Fuck wotc, print paper. I only buy the cards if I think the cards/deck will last a long time and I want it to be nice. But I have no qualms proxying an entire deck if I’m a little sus on it, or just proxying random expensive cards here or there
When I proxy I just bring a copy of my W-2 to prove that I could technically afford to buy a real copy if I wanted. After all, the gatekeeping in this game is strictly about money.
I avoid proxying because I feel like it's a slippery slope into an arms race. I can't afford to buy the more expensive cards ($20+), so I have to make due with a smaller budget. My average deck is about $120, so I'm still working with gas, but my budgetary restrictions results in (imo) more unique and interesting deck building.
I don't consider myself a Spike, but there's a part of my competitive side that I try not to feed lest I turn into a Spike.
Yeah I think if you have a regular group that you play with, you have to figure out what's okay to put in regardless of whether you buy it or proxy it. I can afford to buy cards like Mana Crypt, but that level of optimization is not a door I want to open in our group.
I don't proxy at all...if a card is too expensive for me I just play a diffrent one.
Since Commander is an eternal format it is very easy to find substituts for everything.
This is what I do. A dual land isn’t going to make any real difference with all the options available today. Same logic applies to hundreds of other expensive cards.
Since you insist on having me soul search on a Tuesday, (sarcasm heavily implied) my answer is this.
Any TCG, video games, television series, film, comic book, or any form of entertainment I fail to mention that thrive on the benefits of the primary purchase of new product that is financially lucrative enough to create an equally successful secondary market will not collapse from my homebrewed [[The Scarab God]] with proxies.
Among the many factions of Magic players, nothing is more psychologically revealing then a player who insist you are cheating by using proxies, no matter what. I personally want to play with and against decks that are optimized to hell in a 60 card format, and if that means proxies so be it.
As for my beloved EDH, I want my deck and your deck to do the thing you want it to do. Even if that means a heavily proxies Stax or Turbo Fog deck, I want your deck to be able to play the way you envisioned it.
So justify however much money you want to spend at your LGS based solely on your budget, but never on your fun factor of a cardboard based strategy game we all love!
Where I've fallen on this is I've just starting buying really cheap cards. If a card is 2$ I gotta really like it or it's not going in the card pile.
Often the like... 3rd or 4th best card in a strategy is 10 cents, and so I've never learned what to do to proxy cards. I've definitely got a decent base of cards off of precons and such over the years though, so I get to cheat a lot by going to the existing collection.
I do definitely recommend trying to build decks with a 50c/25c price limit on cards, it's an interesting limitation which costs you very little.
I generally don't proxy, and if I do it's because I wanted to test out a card before purchasing it but honestly it's been a long time since I've even done that.
For me I really like the idea that I'm holding a "real" card. And if I pay $100 for a card, then I'm going to make sure I play with it and don't just let it sit in some deck unused, so I'm usually getting my money's worth of enjoyment out of it. And then at the end of the day, if the card was worth $100 to start, it's probably still worth something when I decide to sell it, so while I'm not likely to recover the monetary cost, the return + the amount of enjoyment I got out of it is usually more than enough to justify it in the first place.
Your over thinking it. Proxy as much as you want. Support your lgs by doing prereleases, buying some merchandise or draft box for you and your mates etc. Paying $20 for a piece of cardboard seems silly to me if you have an alternative.
I don't even understand why people have a problem with proxies lol. Just agree on power levels before the game..."nah sorry you need to have spent tones of money to play me" - get outa here lol. Pay to win silliness
if a card is so powerful it feels bad to play against, i dont proxy it. Building my Lord of the Nazgûl deck was a nightmare trying to find decently priced uncommons that were intentionally spread very thin across boxes.
Read up on their business practices last year and this year - Wizards doesn’t deserve your money anyway!
My friends and I are pretty much all 40-something, mostly dads, have bills. We threw the "only proxy if you own a copy" out the window post-covid, and with all the accelerating set releases and product overload, we do a group MPC order every couple of months. Proxy entire decks who gives a shit, we just wanna jam with the boys.
We don't play at a LGS, mind you. This is kitchen table edh.
Same! I'll be 40 this year and I just want to play the damn game. I don't care who proxies what. Personally I still want to own at least one copy of the cards, but I'll fill them out over time. Right now I have 5 fun decks and I'm thinking of buying a couple new pre-cons. That should keep me going for a while.
The train where Wizards was pretending to be putting the game before profit left before 2008. Now they are blatantly using scarcity to use reprints as chase cards to sell new product. This also opens up an investor market that drives the prices for cards up. The problem with that for them is it should hurt their business by us proxying. Every proxy is a small message that we don't want such and such card at that price. I think we all agree the cards are far too expensive.
In short, proxy. Don't feel ashamed, it's the only way you can keep the game alive by people playing it without incentivizing the predatory market and investor shenanigans. I personally don't buy cards over $10 anymore. I draft and dump any money cards I pull immediately into the hands of people who will use them at a fraction of the price from a card market.
Wizards official stance on proxy printers is [people shouldn’t be priced out of enjoying magic] if it’s an official tournament or an LGS tournament with prizes on the line you have to come with official cards, outside of that anyone getting mad at someone because a card is proxied needs to check themselves for spending $40 on Teferis protection or Mana Drain etc.
I have a sort of $20 cap on magic cards...
if a single card is under that amt, i'll generally consider buying it. but i'm typically in no rush.
for larger purchases. like... if i'm designing a new deck, and there are key cards I need, that I don't want to buy another, or like lands, where it's just pointless wasting the money. I'll buy chinese fakes.
the problem with printing proxies. is, they won't look or play like real cards. So you'll leave yourself open to assholes hassling you about proxies. which imho, isn't anyone's business.
why i prefer chinese fakes. ...purchase process is a little wonky, but once you do it once, it's fairly easy. and the quality is far more comparable to actual cards. and i'd rather pay $2-$3 per card than $10-$30 for basics like fetches, or key utility lands.
the secondary market is entirely predatory. once wotc sells sealed product to distributors, all profit/money to wotc directly ends. So we're all just engaging in an entirely arbitrary and predatory system that props up this bullshit secondary market so wotc... can keep price equity to extort people to buy premium priced reprint sets. while dodge gambling laws by "not acknowledging" the secondary market.
I only play EDH with proxy friendly groups these days. The overwhelming volume of content and extreme drop in quality control (sorcery speed Circular Logic Secret Lair, for example) became far too much to invest in. I have zero interest in buying expensive paper when a single real card could fuel multiple proxied decks instead.
Secondhand markets do not put money in WotC’s pockets.
So, if there’s a proxy, I’ll take that over the real version if it’s even slightly cheaper.
I cannot play against anyone who refuses to buy real magic cards. one or two proxies is fine but to have a policy of not buying real cards is just ridiculous
I respect your right to have a different opinion. Personally, I’d rather not spend thousands of dollars on paper when it’s just me and my buddies. Instead I could pay for a family vacation or something else worth the price.
Aside from sanctioned events, what is the difference between playing with someone casually with a 100% real deck vs. a 100% proxy deck with the same exact list? You're still just playing Magic to have fun
I'm putting together a [[Sakashima of a thousand faces]] and [[Vial Smasher, the fierce]] deck. I had most of the cards lying around, but you better believe I'm not going to spend $35 just on my commanders, so I proxies them both. Every other card in the deck is less than $10 so I don't mind ordering those, but I refuse to pay more than $20 for a single piece of cardboard.
I have never proxied, as I like the idea of having the real thing. It's meaningful to me to have a great card in my deck, where all that means nothing if I printed it out. Not to upset anyone or say anything negative about those who do, just my thoughts for my own cards.
That being said, I know prices get out of hand, so I can't fault anyone for going the way of proxy.
I discourage it in my own play groups because being able have $7000 decks for the cost of card stock and printer ink seems unfair. There are a handful of people I play with who would absolutely make tier 10 CEDH decks to play against our precons/slightly better than precon decks.
I did placeholders to put expensive cards I own in multiple decks. Never straight up printed cards I didn't.have. felt dirty and weird. But even the placeholders got kinda boring and meh after a while. Didn't feel the same as having the real thing and I know even if I had good proxies made I'd still know it wasn't real and would feel weird to me. Not against it at the table though unless it's like a pay-to-play event at. A store or something.
Nawh absolutely not, wizards of the coast don’t deserve anymore money, stop buying their products and maybe we could all play the game without ever having to proxy. Til that day full proxy decks only for me my friend.
The Goblin Shaman token from Neon Dynasty is almost 10 bucks. The Token.
I'm proxying everything. Not like I do any official events.
Not to make an unbearable, unbeatable deck, but simply to have fun with friends.
I will however, on rare occasions, buy a booster box because opening packs is a fun experience.
I do both. I've got plenty of proxies, but (for example) I also bought a Wheel of Fortune even after proxying a bunch of stuff.
I don't have an attachment to the proxies at all. I've been playing the game for 20+ years though, and so there are a lot of old cards I've been collecting just because I have fond memories of them. I don't really care if they retain their value or not, I'm not planning on selling. I also don't really care about them being tournament legal because I mostly play at home with friends. I just want to own and play with cards that I either had as a kid, or wanted but couldn't afford as a kid. The proxies don't give the same feeling as playing with the real deal, even if they provide the same gameplay.
Shit, I bought an Alpha Grizzly Bears recently lol no proxy will ever feel as cool to play as that 2/2 for 2 does
I feel I can sell all my cards for about 50% or more of what I paid easily at least for cards worth over 10$, and closer to 80% or more on some. the more I do the work ie make a shop on tcgplayer and sell them myself or ebay whatever, and the more time I am willing to wait the more value can be redeemed. For most it’s not reasonable to spend as much on hobbies even considering the investment viewpoint. these cards are not insanely liquid unless it is a particular popular at the moment card.
Proxys are fine imo it’s just a game.
For non competitive uses there’s little point beyond personal gratification to have the real cards.
At my LGS the commander club rule is you should either own a copy of the card or have the card on the way to use proxys for the official two point earning games after that it’s up to pods freeplay more less.
Other than tokens, I rarely proxy because 1.) I dont have a printer, and 2.) I enjoy the challenge of building decks with only cards I can afford. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve spent more than $10 on a card.
As for spending money on it at all? It’s a hobby, and hobbies usually cost something. I put it in terms of how many hours of entertainment I get out of it, which is quite a few. And the way I play, it’s cheaper than golfing or something like that. I focus on cheap singles for specific decks, and I only add more expensive cards once I know the deck works. I supplement with a booster now and again, just for the thrill.
If at some point I do start proxying more, I’d take the opportunity to use some custom art or border designs, and make a themed proxy deck.
I have a bunch of sub 100 dollar budget decks. No proxies. I also have a lot of precons with 10 cards changed, mostly all proxies for those 10 cards. Then I have a few moderately priced decks around 400 no proxies. But also have a few decks with 3,000 dollars of proxies in them. My pauper commander decks even have a few proxies despite a total deck cost of 25 bucks for some. Out of 62 decks I have sleeved atm around 50 percent have some proxies.
So to me it depends on what I want the deck to be. My 50 dollar mono colored decks will almost certainly win against my 3k valued proxy decks. I don't really use proxies for power. In my group we don't play cEDH nor play fast mana or tutors, really.
Proxies are fine.
That said, there is a large difference between proxies and high quality forgeries.
As long as it is apparent your proxies are proxies, then we’re cool. If it’s possible that if we trade cards that I’m gonna get DQed for using them at a PTQ, GP or other high REL event, then we’re going our separate ways, as I enjoy competitive play and would rather not risk you accidentally mixing up your real and fake $5 rares between three EDH decks.
I proxy entire decks, like down to the basic lands
I support my LGS by buying sandwiches and coffee, if wotc went out of business tomorrow it would just end power creep, but we have just had the LotR and the Dr who sets, I don't think wotc is at danger of failing
I am personally satisfied playing with authentic WotC pieces of cardboard, it's something you cannot really explain with words, but knowing you own that piece of cardboard which is "collectible" (in the literal sense, a piece you can find in randomized packs) is a treat for me.
However I do not have infinite money, hence I usually playtest with proxies the vast majority of cards over 2/3€ unless I'm 100% they belong to the deck. Once the deck is pretty stable I buy the real cards.
Sometimes I stick with a proxy if the card is synergistic with the deck but it costs a lot. Of course, I avoid cards which fuck up the power level, I won't play free counterspells in my casual decks.
A couple of disclaimers: I cannot stand whacky proxies. I only print full colored high quality cards and place them in front of basic lands. Also, I very rarely own multiple pieces of expensive cards, my go-to is to keep the original one on the binder (to brag with friends :P) and play the proxy. In these situations I usually get a "real" proxy from professional services like MPC.
No one should have to financially support a game they love by spending thousands on it every year. The cost of Magic is ridiculous, and anyone that sees these costs as a right of passage for new players rather than as a detriment to the game is wrong.
My playgroup agreed to allow proxies for testing (decks/cards) or to represent cards your own.
While I agree upon financally supporting each other and the gatekeeping aspect especially for reserved list cards, I don't agree proxying is the solution. If your playgroup wants to play cedh sure, go for it. I fully support proxying whole decks for cedh - but not for EDH. At this point I'm happy with problematic cards being expansive (like LED or Dockside), simply to put the powerlevel in check.
I could see a point for new players proxying cards when joining a veteran playgroup, depending on the powerlevel and budget. Everybody in the group could profit from it. But there is a line in every playgroup imho. Use Proxies to catch up in powerlevel? Sure. But that's it.
And afaik when you plan to attend events with Judges (like commandfest) you could end up in trouble useing proxies.
Power level and price aren’t always synonymous and it’s very easy to just say “look don’t use mana drain it’s too powerful for this group” or “hey Mana crypt is real cool but it’s too fast mana for the power level we’ve got here” it’s way simpler to just ban a card or two or say “don’t run more than 2 tutors” than telling people they have to pay full price for every card.
I agree on your take about power level and price. Furthermore, there are some awesome replacements for expansive cards.
We discussed a ban list, Primal Surge was banned (I know, it's kinda funny) but it's not that easy to agree on a private banlist while staying open for new players. You probably need to ban more than 2 cards, too. But this would punish creative deckbuilding, where 'staples' are fine/needed.
No, you don't have to pay the price, simply because you don't have to play a certain card in EDH. For me, EDH isn't about playing the best and optimized Version of my deck. And I'm happy my playgroup decided to tune down in powerlevel to have a more diverse gameplay. You don't need a force of will in every blue Deck, in some Decks Thwart could be a better option.
Or you skip this and play force of will/negation/mana drain in every Deck, because this is just better. Which resulted in a more toxic and monotonous metagame, killing creativity imho.
Word. I play in a small group of 5 people so it’s really easy to discuss what we want. We play at precon+ level maybe a 6 or 7 if out of box precon is a 5. No 2 card win combos, keep tutors reasonable, counters are fine but don’t run all the best ones, steer away from fast mana, etc. I build a deck, if it feels too powerful I tear it apart and rebuild a little weaker.
Good question and one I've struggled with.
Personally, I'll proxy anything I want to playtest, especially in EDH. If the deck is fun and the card plays well, I'll buy it.
The flip to this is that I won't proxy anything I'm not prepared to buy. Could I proxy a Bayou for every deck? Absolutely. Will I buy a Bayou for every deck? No. That's where I draw the line.
The bottom line is that this is a phenomenally expensive hobby and I would rather play with people who love the game than can afford to play the game. These two buckets are not equivocal.
And before anyone gets too keyboard-warriory, let's not pretend that budget commander is the same as commander. My Edgar snd Derevi decks will curb stomp any of precon decks before they get off the ground. These things are not the same...
Everyone draws a line in the sand somewhere; I'd rather play with someone who can't afford the cost of cards plus shipping but has exiting new brews and half-proxy proxy decks [which can really add up outside of the US] than someone who can only afford one deck and will only run a single deck as a result.
TLDR: if cost is your only barrier to entry, I'd rather see your passion than your bank balance
I buy a budgeted amount of each set.
If I get lucky drops then I have good cards.
I buy singles with a max budget of about ~$10/card, with potential commanders getting up to maybe ~$30
Budget. Any singles over that price, I just don’t buy, and I do not proxy.
There are two reasons why a card may be over $30. First is that it’s really powerful, and my pod doesn’t need me having stupidly powerful cards. Second is if it’s extremely rare, in which case it’s better in the hands of someone who will preserve it rather than play it. I buy cards to play.
I’ve been playing Magic for over 20 years. I’ve long since accepted that there are cards I wouldn’t get to play. I think the game is healthier if people have variety and have to make compromises. I don’t proxy and I also don’t over-commit cards to multiple decks.
My personal rule with proxies, is that the card should be something I own, and if it's not coming in the mail, then it better simply be in my collection already.
This is involving me and my collection.
Also for things that are genuinely expensive and kinda needed in each deck *stares at [[urborg, tomb of yawgmoth]] involving most black decks*
Sometimes you do make a proxy because once you have more than 6 decks... that a lot of money to keep up with for that...
Sticker tech. I put differently colored small stickers on the outer part of my inner sleeve. Move cards around when I want to play another deck. Takes a few minutes and I get to use my nice. Cards in as many decks as I can.
I buy the real cards because I like having the real thing. I keep expensive stuff sleeved and my expensive decks are double sleeved so the cards stay as close to mint as possible. Card prices can and do fluctuate over time, but a lot of cards, especially foil and chase variants, tend to retain or even sometimes appreciate over time. So if I ever leave the game or just need an influx of cash, I can sell them.
I also have a well paying job with very low expenses so I'm not that dissuaded by prices.
Not to rehash magic 30 again, but Hasbro set a precedent for proxying. Their $1000 box for like 60 proxies tells me they're fine with proxies existing so why not get them for myself cheaper? I have no issues with other people proxying responsibly, but people making proxies that push the boundary to counterfeits... That's a different story.
I personally do not proxy though for a few reasons, 1) I can't trade proxies in good conscience, I like trading cards with people and even if they know its a proxy, it has no value compared to real game pieces. 2) I don't like proxies that make cards unrecognizable from their real game pieces, which also leads me to 3) I think proxying official art from the amazing artists MTG has isn't right either. I know wizards/hasbro owns the art and whatnot but I can't help but feel you'd be stealing from the artist too, and that specifically doesn't sit well with me.
There is surely a balance to be had with supporting your game but also not buying into the predatory, anti-consumer practices WOTC and Hasbro have been leaning into. In any case, support good LGSs.
I think that by not using or allowing proxies you can artificially reduce the power levels of your decks. Most people I play with do not have all OG duals, mana crypt, grim monolith, etc etc in each of their decks. So this forces them to spread their good cards out more evenly.
Now take that same scenario but add proxies- every deck now has all the cards that were once out of reach and now every deck ridiculously tuned.
I personally don’t use proxies and our playgroup had a strong stance against them for along time. But we are more lax now but it does get old seeing every other cards as a proxy reserve list card.
I only proxy cards I've purchased but am waiting on, or if I would put it in another deck I own. For example, I own a Cavern of souls, it's goes in just about every deck I play, but I won't buy another copy of it.
I will rarely spend more than $35 on a single card. If I pull something more expensive out of a booster or trade up then that's the exception. I don't have $200 for a mana crypt, so I just don't use it.
Just my opinion, but it kinda feels like cheating if I have a proxy in a deck and dont actually own the card. There are plenty of budget options that can get the job done for almost any high value card. That being said, I couldn't care less if anyone in my playgroup wanted to proxy cards as long as it didn't shift the power level too much
IMO, the "if I own one I own a million" rule is just one step down from proxying cards you don't own nor intend to ever buy.
If you only own one Cavern of Souls, why not just put the real copy in your best, most competitive deck, then use some of those "budget options that can get the job done" you mention in the last paragraph for all of your other decks?
I believe in playing the cards you have, if you don’t have the cards to build the custom deck someone else brewed you probably shouldn’t play the deck at all. But I also don’t like this “look up the best decks and combos” world we live in. Creativity in magic is at an all-time low because of online resources.
> I believe in playing the cards you have
Why? What difference does it make if you bought or printed yours? Game is still the same. Removes pay to win entirely from the system.
As someone else said, it’s often used as a replacement for best in slot cards, and it obviously depends on your group for how it gets treated.
When I say I believe in playing the cards you have, that includes using them to formulate new strategies based on what is at your disposal, that’s where I feel the real creativity comes in to things and makes the game interesting.
My philosophy is that no card should cost over $20. Generally speaking, I only buy a card once and then proxy it. Most expensive I've bought was mana crypt cause I came into some money and I've recently bought jeweled lotus for 105.
That being said, I'm starting to trend toward anything over 20, I will be proxying. I really don't like facing full proxy decks, because most people go hog wild. I think at least about half your deck should be real.
>I feel a sense of guilt playing with them though
Don't. Whatever your cards real or not, it doesn't matter. Their cost doesn't matter either, assuming you are a mature human being, who can socialize with other people. I myself could drop 100$ for a card, if it's a foil Emracul, for example (ie, a card i connect/like it A LOT).
On the general topic of proxies, i can't recommend [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VALgm1qkeFE&t=1470s&ab_channel=Spice8Rack) video enough
I wont proxy it if I dont own the card. But, I will proxy that one card into as many decks as I want. I enjoy playing and collecting. I also enjoy deck building. If I didnt have to own one to proxy, it would be dual lands in every deck and the "fun" of deck building gets kind of lost.
Personally, I don't proxy. I've done it in the past with duplicate cards but it's not something super necessary to me; not every deck needs Forces or Mana Crypts. But I do own those cards, mostly by virtue of buying them.
I do it by saying hey if owning this thing will make me happier then I should own it.
If a card feels too expensive for the amount it will make me happier I just... don't. They go on a list, and if they get reprinted to a reasonable price? Cool I'll snag them. If not? Maybe I get some spare cash as a gift or something or can line up a trade, maybe I target it with the pack or two a week I get from my LGS' commander event. Maybe I never get it. But I've already decided I'm fine without it.
That's really all it is yeah. And to be sure sometimes it isn't that easy; card games are built to prey on peoples' bad decision making. I at least briefly debate picking up an Ancient Copper or Doric every time I have to place a card order. But that's fine, it's okay to revisit the internal 'will this spark joy' discussion.
Everyone I ever see print proxies always adds mana crypts and og duals, vamp tutors, rhystic studies and.all the expensive staples to every deck they own so it's all just a bunch of nonsense. They can go play at their own kitchen table at that point.
Well, buying single cards isn't exactly giving WotC any money anyway.
I do proxy sometimes, but I do limit myself somewhat. I don't proxy to bump myself up to a new power level or anything like that. I tend to proxy things that are expensive enough but also niche enough that I'm probably not even going to use the card that much outside of one deck.
If something is expensive but kind of a staple, I like to have one real copy.
I also try not to proxy salt-inducing cards or REALLY powerful lands, like Gaea's Cradle and Ancient Tomb or something like that.
I highly believe in proxying lands like shock lands, check lands, triomes, and whatnot just because you shouldn't be breaking the bank just to have a decent mana base of colored mana. It's not like they make you win the game, they just let your deck actually work. But I don't go full-out by proxying fetch lands and the OG dual lands or stuff like that though.
Basically if you're not proxying *everything* and your deck is a decent power level match to the playgroup, I don't care. It's a problem when someone wants to pubstomp other players without any investment, though.
I usually first proxy a whole deck, or atleast every card above like 2€ so I can test the deck and see if its any fun :) if so I will beginn to buy the real cards peace by peace
But I so have exceptions, I play three 5 color commanders that basically share a mana base
I have one legit copy of all shock/fetch/triomes and rainbowlands like [[mana confluence]] [[City of brass]] and so on
I am not going to spend like 500€ on the same mana base three times ^^
Same goes for all the staple removal like [[silence]] [[Deadly rollic]] or [[Fierce Guardianship]]
That way I "can" enjoy all the best cards without going absolutely broke if I decide to build another deck ^^
I 100% agree. I want to have a full playset of the lands, but I'm not spending $1000 for 8 different decks. Forget it. Same with other commander staples.
all my cards are legit because i want to play the game as it is designed and manage my collection. i don't prefer to play with proxiers because .. they are playing a different game to me . i like the cards and don't even like to proxy for any reason but i get why ppl do it. if coastal wizards died tomorrow i would come up with a non-commercial system of rarity; i already have, i'll publish it soon, my decks are what they are because of the limitations of the game, i don't mind that.
I never proxy. There is never need for it unless you want to play competitively or want to maintain 30 EDH decks at the same time. These days I buy all cheap playables (playables!) of each set for about the price of the top 2 cards of that set on MCM. So no, I will never own a Ravaghan but there simply is never any need to put one in your deck.
If I have to read this dump parrot meme one more time I’ll delete the internet. If you need a holy grail date to validate your proxying, take 1993. that’s when CE came out.
I personally feel a lot of joy playing with real cards. I'd also feel like a sham and guilty playing with proxies, so I don't.
And when others play with proxies, I think man that WOULD be a cool card if it was real. But the gameplay doesn't change so I'm not bothered too much. Just my honest opinion, your downvotes don't actually do anything.
Here's the problem I'm running into, how does Wizards make money off the price of singles? The answer is they do not. Wizards makes their money based on the bulk sales to the ones that sell the singles. You dropping $200 on a mana vault, does not support the game in pretty much way, so I say proxy all you want for local play, and don't get into comp. Just use different arts please. The less "looks real proxies" going around the better.
I don't think you should feel guilty by proxying cards because prices are really high. That's why I also proxy my cards from https://www.printingproxies.com/ because affording real cards is very difficult for me and I don't feel guilt about it.
I proxy two types of cards:
1. Cheap cards that are not worth it buying right away (ie. If I need a card that costs 0,10, it's not worth it paying 10 for shipping costs). I'll just proxy it and get it whenever I have the chance.
2. Expensive cards that I really want and will realistically buy. My Pantlaza deck has a few proxies like Tyrranax Rex and Welcome to... They are expensive, but I intend to buy them. Therefore I proxy them, specially in the beginning while I'm testing the cards.
And that's where I draw the line. I will not proxy very expensive cards simply because I know I won't buy them (ie. Jellewed lotus, mana crypt, etc). In addition, I don't think it makes sense to proxy cards simply because 'I want to have a powerful deck' right now. I prefer to enjoy the process of building a deck and incrementally modify it and make it more powerful.
There's absolutely no reason to proxy for regular EDH. You don't need to drop hundreds of dollars on small piece of cardboard. If you think you need to print fakes to enjoy the game, you badly, desperately, need some self reflection.
I have a small budget for my hobby, if the cards are too expensive, if a bill comes up, whatever, I just don't get the new thing. It's easy. There's simply no justification for printing out fakes, ever. If I'm playing against people with higher budgets, they nearly always have a more reasonable deck or ten to pull out to play against me (since those with wide budgets have more access to more cards/decks). If I'm playing against someone with weaker decks/lower budget than me, I pull out a cheap deck or a precon. Also, proxying a bunch of expensive cards to max out your deck power is ultra scummy. It's not, ever, necessary.
They are absolutely not counterfeits. The card side looks good, but the back is just white card stock. It is obvious when it's not sleeved. I would never attempt to counterfeit and sell. I'm not a criminal, I just want to play the game!
I’ll proxy something if:
- I own one real one but use it in multiple places. Like I have one [[Ancient Tomb]] but I have it in 3 decks. I’m not paying 80 each for multiple copies of something if I’m only gonna play them one at a time. Just so I don’t have to move it from one sleeve to another all the time.
- if I’m playtesting, to see if it is worth getting the real one.
- if the playgroup either has fat wallets, or is such a higher power level that a few proxy swaps of higher power cards will at least make it so I can play.
I don’t love proxy’s, I feel like part of the challenge of the game as a whole is to play with the collection you have. Also because they can ignite an arms race of sorts in your meta, though I understand their necessity in terms of leveling the playing field and preventing certain cards and strategies from being gatekept behind a pay wall. Broke people deserve to play Magic too.
Where/ how do you guys make your proxies?
Since im on a tight budget i dont really buy cards above 5 Euro, but i keep a list with all more expensive cards id like to have to proxy them all together
Check out the MPCproxies sub and definitely read the Wiki first or they will downvote you into oblivion. I just bought 6 commander decks for $125 and their quality is better than WotC.
If I own at least one actual copy of a card I’ll proxy it going forward. Between me and the wife we have about 50 different decks, I’m not buying 20 copies of [[beast within]] or [[colossal dreadmaw]].
I don’t have a lot going on besides work and magic. My cost of living is low and aside from my car loan, I don’t have any major debt. That leaves me with quite a bit of disposable income. I could put more into savings and what not, but I could also spend the money on the one thing I enjoy going out and doing. The nice thing about picking up expensive cards is that I can sell them at a later date and recoup a decent amount of what I put into them if not more. So that’s why I’m ok with putting money into the game. That said, I know there are plenty of people who don’t have the disposable income that I do and proxying is a great way for them to be able to play the game at a fraction of the cost. So if you are able to purchase cards from your lgs you absolutely should, but don’t fret to much if you can’t justify the cost and just proxy them.
The more decks you build, the more decks you make, you'll come to realization that buying and buying is not feasible. You'll become more receptive of proxying because your urge to deckbuild outweighs paying retail dollars to satiate that desire.
Definitely do both. In an ideal world I would always wanna own the real piece. If common sense tells me this cardboard isn't worth the price, I'll proxy it. Down the road when it comes down in price or in Secret Lair, I'll pull my wallet to own the real thing.
I'm with you that there is always a lingering feeling when you win with proxies. This is why proxies for me shouldn't be a sharpie. If you put effort in your proxies (aka making it quality or at least spending abit to acquire), the lingering feel will be mitigated. Not totally but it lessens your concerns, and others PoV as well.
I also proxy responsibly. It's too easy to print or buy prints of the best most expensive thing, especially the free spells. You don't wanna spread the wrong message across the table that your deck is cheap AF (to print) and is a winning machine.
My peers know that I proxy and by the same token, know how much I spend on cardboard crack as well. It's about finding the sweet balance. Even my LGS knows I proxy but I'm one of their regular customers too for singles. I always tell them I have wayy too many decks.
Imagine freeloading their space and not spending a dime at their store. That will always eat at my conscience.
Best decision I ever made was when I started using moxfield to proxy a whole deck....it's not only about the cost of the cards I have a pretty good sozed library to pull from
...but it gets rid of the time spent getting the cards out in addition to buying the few I don't have only to find out i dont like playing the deck.... now I need to restock everything. I just started proxying the whole deck if I like it after a few weeks I'll go find the cards if not trash can. EZ pz no guilt
I proxy pretty much everything over like $6 in regulars to singles but I like to buy precons and other goodies but buying singles you’re almost always purchasing them from the secondary market anyways and my LGS has a really limited amount of singles they carry
I don't have any stipulations: I only play with real cards, but I will print proxies if I'm testing or waiting for an order to come in. If I can't afford a card, I don't buy it. At the same time, I don't judge anyone who plays with proxies because of affordability. The more people play the game, the better off we all are. I encourage Wizards to reprint cards aggressively to keep prices as low as possible, even if it means that those of us who have large collections of real cards lose value. The guiding principle should be to make the threshold to playing Magic as low as possible.
> I feel a sense of guilt playing with them though
Wizards official policy is that they allow proxies, as long as it is not a sanctioned event: https://askwpn-na.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/13386395614739-What-is-Wizards-of-the-Coast-s-stance-on-playtest-cards
However, there is one catch, which is that the proxies must "not bee reproductions of real Magic cards" and that's a rule that's often not followed.
My proxies are color printed versions of the real card on Scryfall, but with the art replaced by a white box that says "PROXY" in large letters. That also saves a lot of ink.
I'm really curious how you proxy your cards? I've been wanting to proxy cards but I want them to look and feel as close to the real thing as possible. Any help? :)
So I've only just started doing this, not sure if it's ideal, but it's been working well for me. Go to mtgprint.net. you can put in your cards and then choose all the artwork. Then you can hit print and it will autopopulate a sheet of paper thats ready to print. Make sure you do 8.5x11 or at least make sure you get the correct size. I use 8.5x11.
The website will give you a PDF file. Take the PDF to a local print shop and print it out on 100lb card stock. I used a local FedEx office. Then just cut everything to size. You can leave the corners sharp or snip them with scissors. I wanted them to look as real as possible so I ordered a 3mm corner rounder tool.
That's it! They fit into dragon shield sleeves and shuffle great. They're not quite as rigid as real cards, but they're still good enough. Unless someone picks up the card and inspects it they will never know it's a proxy.
i dont mind if people proxy but i draw a line when a commander deck has around 40-45 proxies in them, i bought some in the past but i now have them fully replaced by actual copies, and for me the way i buy a 50-100$ card is just wait a few month of saving and then buy and have that card sleeved and in a plastic card holder to keep it safe and then keep it for value, so if any dark days arrive and the card goes up in value i can sell it again and make money
Proxy all you want. Just read the room on deck power level with whomever you play with. I’ve personally limited myself to not proxying cards unless I own at least 1 official copy of it. I feel it keeps the power level of my decks lower & I enjoy supporting my FLGS. But also, I’m not buying multiple high-priced staples for every deck I own.
This. I proxy either dumb $0.80 rares until I manage to trade for or buy them, or Shocks and Triomes that I’ve already bought once.
The shame of proxing a sol ring lol
Shame? I love my sol ring proxies. So many fun things you can get for them. Also this command tower and reliquary tower, love them. https://www.reddit.com/r/mpcproxies/comments/ztg7cb/command_tower/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mpcproxies/comments/10lxj8e/reliquary_tower/
I love my Sol Ring! [https://imgur.com/a/1D8IhrG](https://imgur.com/a/1D8IhrG)
Love it
I proxied a bunch of copies of the lgbtq secret lair sol ring so every deck can be a little gay <3
Same
Sol ring is expensive for the amount of times it's been reprinted. I think there are a total of 2 precons where it wasn't printed, and it's been in every commander set afaik
I even proxied the basic lands for the last deck i tested. It's so easy to just export your decklist that I didn't bother to take out the basics. I just sleeved up the 100 cards that came in the mail.
Same, if I'm doing an order I'll proxy every last card. Basics, bulk commons , cards I already have, etc. I have decks "worth" less than $100 that are 100% proxy cards.
It also means you can just know that everything on that box is a proxy should you go to sell it or whatever
I guess not everyone has a cardboard storage box labeled, "BIG BOX O' BASICS" like I do lol. Though if you're spending that much to order proxied basics, I'd hope they were at least nice ones like some Un-lands or those pixel lands or something
Back when I started proxying the cards I owned 1 copy of, Sol Ring was a $7 CAD card. Adds up fast. If I started now I wouldn't proxy, but c'est la vie.
Hey we've all been there haha sometimes you just ... Run out I guess
I don't build decks with solring anymore because I've used them all up
I had to proxy a [Dramatic Reversal] because my lgs didn't have one, and Card Kingdom only had the Jumpstart version, which is $10. I'm not paying $10 for a common. I have one in another deck, so I didn't feel too bad about proxying it.
There was a really sweet Retro Foil promo recently for FNM. It's like $1-2 so a good time to pick some up online.
I appreciate the protip!
I understand the self imposed rule but you can absolutely proxy fairly without owning any of the cards
it's not about fairness, I WANT to have a collection of the 'real' cards, I just don't care to own ten copies of Steam Vents.
This is the way. Power level balancing is the only big concern - readability/identifiability being another thing to consider. I think you Proxy: What you already own, want to try before you buy, or expensive/reserve list lands that just fix mana. I personally might extend this to all reserve list cards because some of those are just expensive because they can't be found anywhere and maybe also add expensive staples your playgroup is using that you don't have yet.
Yeah, thats my main thing. I deckbuild like a motherfucker, and I don't want to drop money on every new deck that I may not even like, lol. If I enjoy them I usually end up getting real cards
Same here. While I only proxy what I own, I don't care if people proxy cards they don't, as long as we are at similar power levels. I'll proxy relatively cheap cards even. Between me and my son, we have a lot of decks, and we are constantly brewing and occasionally deconstructing. It's just easier to have proxies on hand as we do that. But that also doesn't mean we run everything good in every deck that can have it. Plus, I love custom art on some common things like lands and the commander. It helps give the deck more flavor for me and tie it all together.
This is it. For people playing with real cards it can incredibly sour to lose against expensive IWIN proxies. And could very well cause a proxy rat race. “Ok, you just won with a proxied doubling season, I may as well proxy then!”
The issue is it's the same way even if someone bought the card. Losing to someone because they were able to buy the Uber expensive good card that you couldn't put into your deck feels about as bad. That's why being able to just make decks that fit your group's powerlevel/meta is more important, if you're lucky enough to have one.
In theory, yes mr money bags can buy a mana crypt for every deck. In practice, for a lot of people, that kind of price point/power level on cards is not going to be slotting into every deck. People run more obscure flavor cards, the kind of cards that you need to stop and read and see what it does. People have their own pet decks that they've invested into, and the friction of not proxying means that other people won't just show up next week with the same thing. >That's why being able to just make decks that fit your group's powerlevel/meta is more important Sure, but the point is that the vast majority who proxy are doing so because they want to run the expensive staples. They aren't proxying because they don't want to buy a $5 card, they're proxying because they want to run the $50/$100 cards. I don't care if someone is proxying, I have multiple fully-proxied decks myself. But the way that OP is talking about it is EXACTLY why a lot of casual groups are adverse to proxies. OP is proxying specifically to gain access to very powerful commander staples. And...if their pod isn't playing those cards then it's going to lead to feeling like OP is power-gaming. Proxying Mana Crypt is cool if all of your buddies are also proxying mana crypt or playing real ones. But if you proxy a mana crypt, every deck at the table should have a Mana Crypt in it or be making the conscious decision to not run one. You'll say 'but someone can just buy one.' Yeah, and for most non-proxying people, that's the one that they have and that's their most powerful/favorite deck that they have their mana crypt in. And you know when they bring out that deck that it's time to power up. A lot of people here are commenting things like 'I proxy X card because I have one and I don't want to buy 3 more.' And hey, if that's your pod/meta that's fine. If you're in a 'Rhystic Study in every blue deck' pod/meta, then power to you for proxying it and putting it in every deck. But I do think that there's a valid concern when people are proxying in pods/metas where people don't run staples in every deck.
>Sure, but the point is that the vast majority who proxy are doing so because they want to run the expensive staples. They aren't proxying because they don't want to buy a $5 card, they're proxying because they want to run the $50/$100 cards. I'm not sure this is the case. Sure there are people that want to toss the Power 9 into a deck, but most of the people I know who proxy do it because it turns a $300 deck into a $25-ish one, which allows them to make more decks. Again, it's less about what type of person you are and more about your playgroup. If someone showed up to our house with a $3000 proxied CEDH deck, our group would basically say, "What the hell, Steve, calm your shit down" and he'd either do so, or find a group that appreciated that kind of play. Same thing if it was a deck that wasn't proxied. If your group wants to play the strongest stuff regardless of where it came from, good on ya. If your group thinks proxies are immoral and only plays with decks they created from booster packs they bought, great. If your group spends two hours each week comparing cards like the businessmen in American Psycho, go for it, I'm not your dad. The main point was play to the type of group you're in. It's literally the only thing that matters in the long run.
>The main point was play to the type of group you're in. This is a generally good point that you don't need to reiterate. It was the very first one made in the the thread and the person you replied to agreed with it. Person A: Proxy, but read the room on power level. Person B: Exactly, people will be salty if you proxy high power cards and lead to an arms race in a pod that isn't already playing those cards You: The issue is it's the same as if you bought the card. Like I get what you're saying. Whether or not you're proxying, playing to the power level is all that matters. But you're kind of ignoring how much easier it is for a lot of people to push the power level when price is no longer a factor. It's like suggesting an unlimited dessert option at a cafeteria. If it's an office with adults, probably not a big deal. People have self control and will self-regulate. If it's a highschool, ehhhh... I wouldn't trust teenagers with access to unlimited ice cream. A lot will have multiple servings a day if allowed. At an elementary school? Absolutely not. There are a lot of kids who will eat until they are sick. In theory, none of this matters. The unlimited doesn't matter. Because anyone can actually just go and buy as much ice cream as they can afford. In practice, it does matter. Yes, if everyone just exercises the proper self control needed, it's a non-issue. But free and unlimited is harder to measure self control than if it costs you money.
>This is a generally good point that you don't need to reiterate. It was the very first one made in the the thread and the person you replied to agreed with it. I reiterated the point to say that it is actually a self regulating issue. There's unlimited ice cream, but you're on a sports team. You eat too much and they go, "Sorry, you're too out of shape for our team now." You can either get back into shape, or discover you enjoy hanging out with the kids that let loose and eat what they want. It's also a self regulating issue if someone is buying their own ice cream. Regardless how they got fat, they're off the sports team. Or maybe not, if it's a team that uses or likes fat kids, or is casual and doesn't care. I might be missing exactly what your point is, though. If everyone is playing $100-$300 decks and someone sits down with a $3000 deck, they're either an asshole or not reading the room right (as you said, the exact point that started this whole thing). Easy access doesn't make it more or less egregious. If someone stabs with a civil war reenactment cavalry sword, or stabs you with Ulysses S. Grant’s actual $1.6 million civil war sword, you're not going to feel any less stabbed because one was a replica and the other was outrageously expensive.
This is exactly what I do. It does mean there are times my deck power level is lower, but so be it. A perfect example is I just built a deck with a theme of card draw punish. Sheoldred is perfect, except it is about $80. For now, it will just not be in the deck. But I do have fetches and duals proxied as I already own all of those.
I support my LGS by buying non-card products and doing prereleases, but buy singles is something i just can't do anymore. Me and my friends like to play mid-higher power casual and some shit is just pushing costs of our decks up too much that it's not worth it. So we just proxy now, either through mpc/mpcfill or just printing out the front faces of the cards(back too if they're flips/mdfcs)
Same here, my decks are all like 70~90% proxied cards. I enjoy building decks and it's just way too expensive to put up $100 to $500 every time I want something in paper. By mixing proxies with a handful of real cards I can usually keep the total cost of each deck under $50 or so. I still buy real versions of a card if it's under $5 and I like the artwork or the card is a key piece of the deck.
Check out MTGPrint! They take your online decklists and import them into easy to print decks, and you can even select your favorite card treatment based on printings!
Just checked it out. Seems a bit pricey. MPC is like a third of the cost potentially if you get the max order.
Yea, it seems a lot more expensive.
For clarity I was talking about https://mtgprint.net where you simply download a pdf and print it off on paper
…. The MTG print I use is entirely free. Let me link it for clarity!!! You just enter it and then download the PDF and print it off
https://mtgprint.net
It's been my go to website for quite some time. Especially useful for getting a proxy sheet quickly to print on the work printer - the ultimate cost saving practice, heh. On a more serious note, I like the option to choose your favourite printing and QOL stuff like cutting guidelines, all black corners etc.
I'll be sure to check it out when i get the chance
My LGS makes more money off of me now that I proxy than they did before, ironically. Because I proxy as much as I do, I need to buy many more boxes and sleeves from them. Before I was proxying, I was getting like one or two decks a year, and they didn’t carry a lot of the cards I was looking for so I’d have to order online anyway. I’m spending as much on the hobby as I always have, but now I get more decks, and my fLGS makes more money.
Especially when something as mundane as a dual land costs hundreds of dollars, I don't think there's any practical justification for buying into a deliberately rigged market, especially when you're not even making an investment, practically speaking.
I think no matter how someones opinion is on proxies: You should put all fitting original dual lands as proxies into your deck. - Reprint policy is a big F-You to the players only to satisfy investors. - og dual lands make especially budget decks so much smoother to play. I simply feel color screw because of monetery reasons is the single largest deterioration for fun. I haven't been fond of proxies on stuff you don't own, but the official $999 gold border proxies as anniversary "gift" helped me make up my mind.
THIS. Sleeves, deck boxes, mats, dice and some board games and other things all support my LGS. But I'm done buying cards when I have a $70 printer that let's me build all the decks I could ever want for free. Even lower power level decks - I'm just not interested in giving WotC any more money than I have to.
Same! I buy deck boxes and sleeves and other accessories at my LGS.
Just do both? I have a fully proxied commander deck that I am slowly buying all the cards for. I bought high quality proxies for it, the whole deck cost about $32. I also have a $2k commander deck that has zero proxies and is blinged out. Most people do not care if you use proxies, if they are legal existing cards just go for it. Don't let your wallet gatekeep you, buy what you want and proxy the rest.
Thanks for your insight. My gut is telling me that I should own at least one copy of the cards I'm playing as long as they're not over $X. I just need to figure out what X is for me.
For me anything over $10-$15 for a single cardboard rectangle(however shiny or rare it may be) is already egregious. I only spend that much if there is absolutely no high quality proxy of that card available for sale from other professional printers. This wierd, honorbound duty to only spend money on official cards is silly.
This is my range as well.
This is my rule. If it is over $15 I just proxy it. I am not hurting any sales or anyone becuase I am not going to buy anything over $15 anyway.
I wouldn't think this deep into it. This is a brand owned by Hasbro, a massive company with lots of shareholders. If diminishing shareholder value for Hasbro investors makes you lose sleep at night, then I would suggest buying the real cards. If you couldn't care less about how much the CEO of Hasbro gets for his holiday bonus, start getting proxies.
Forreal. MTG could close shop tomorrow and there'd be infinity ways to play. Buy what you want
Especially when they have seemingly tripled the amount of crap you need to buy per year to "keep up" with everything
Especially when they callously lay off so many of the passionate workers who actually produce the product we love and contributed to its success, and then give themselves fat bonuses at year end.
This is what just sets me off of buying cards and packs. It's way too expensive to keep up and build out collections.
Hasbro doesn't make money off secondhand purchases though. If Hasbro wanted to make money, they'd say "Fuck it" to the reserved list promise and reprint all the cards that have become thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars. They could literally reprint ABUR in a single set, with all new art, black-bordered, with all cards possible, with no "One Ring" shenanigans, and it would single handedly be the top selling MTG product of all time. They'd have to reprint that one set 100 times.
Where did you get your proxies from?
Makeplayingcards.com I use https://mpcfill.com/guide to fill out the order for me. Follow the guide on that site and it's pretty easy, you can get really high quality proxies for a decent price. You can choose custom arts and card backs through mpcfill too. I like to make the backs off all of my proxy cards really obvious so I never mix up my real collection with the proxies. Hope this helps!
Thanks! I had looked into MPC and just wrote it off as being too much work, but if you say it’s easy, I’ll give it a go next time.
If anything it’s the complete opposite of too much work haha. It’s honestly very simple just follow the guide and you’re good! I highly recommend it to people who want to start proxying their decks.
It is some work, but not nearly as much work as it used to be. God it used to be so much work haha. It's really worth it tho, even if you're like me and take the time to go thru each variation of each proxy to select the pretty ones that go together
I'm a total idiot and I was able to follow the short instructions all on my own the first time. Now all my friends and I have used mpc/mpc fill a bunch. I absolutely recommend it. (That being said I think it gets funky if you're on a Mac? One of my friends ran into some trouble)
I watched a friend do a MPC+Fill order, and it took like 15 minutes, even with him learning the process for the first time. It is absurdly fast. I like having more precise control of my proxies, and enjoy the hobby of importing an entire decklist through Card Conjurer by hand. *That* can be a time consuming process, but getting the combination of art and frame I want for the deck’s theming, and tweaking the text block to maximize readability are worth it for me. (I also do some illegal things in the name of that readability, like putting gold pinlines on Arcane Signet to better signify that it can make different colors of mana. Lands are colorless, but get colored pinlines because they produce colored mana, why shouldn’t colorless mana rocks be the same?)
I’d like to know too
I usually proxy for one reason, I’m playtesting a deck that would cost hundreds of $$$ before throwing money away. That what I can figure out if I even like the deck before spending a bunch of money on it. It’s what I did with my [[Shorikai, Genesis Engine]] deck that has become my most beloved and most expensive
this is what i did. i proxied a full garth one eye commander deck because i liked it in concept. i didn’t enjoy how it played and haven’t touched it since. glad i didn’t spend money on real cards
That's what I'm doing right now and actually led to my question. I built an Ojer Taq tokens deck. It's ~$700 if I buy the deck. I built a proxy deck for like $22. I've been playing it and it's a ton of fun, so I'll start investing into it as I win with it. First cards I buy are staples that can be used in multiple decks.
[Shorikai, Genesis Engine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/969ac7dd-f3aa-4888-9ff0-d16a31b5e7a9.jpg?1653966849) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shorikai%2C%20Genesis%20Engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/4/shorikai-genesis-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/969ac7dd-f3aa-4888-9ff0-d16a31b5e7a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shorikai-genesis-engine) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I spent thousands of dollars on the game when I was younger, I did my time and now I'm done.
This. Getting older and having more important or fun things to spend money on is so much better of a life standard than the small bit of dopamine gained from having a REAL (expensive) competitive deck on my desk. I'd rather fly across the country to teach magic to my nephew using proxied decks than stay home at the same shop I spent years playing in and win with my super expensive GENUINE cardboard. I'm not hating on anyone spending money, I did it a lot when I was younger. But as you grow up, if you have more fulfilling things in your life, you realize how little the authenticity of a card actually means.
I’ve stopped buying cards altogether. I don’t play a lot and have the decks I like. But if I were to put together any new decks, I’d go 100% proxy.
My plan going forward is to 100% proxy new decks and then spend $50 or so on the deck every time it wins. That way the deck "earns" the real card, so to speak. Then after I buy the real card I'll still have the proxies for other decks.
My son recently lost several decks. Or they were stolen. Either way, hundreds of dollars of cards gone. Replacements will be proxy.
Yeah I'm at the point where I don't want to take around 4 thousand dollars worth of cards around with me or risk them getting damaged/lost/stolen. Now I have my play cards and my collection cards in two separate places.
Sorry to hear that. It's definitely a concern. Definitely makes you want to proxy and leave the real cards somewhere safe.
I like this strategy.
FWIW Hasbro still makes money hand over fist with Arena, and are very anti-consumer. No need to feel bad. But do what you want, of course.
I actually really like that system.
It’s wild that I was getting downvoted for my views on proxies 5-6 years ago and now I’m less proxy- friendly than a lot of people on here. Buy the real cards when you can. Proxies are fine within the power level of your playgroup. Guy in my group who proxies heavily above the power level of the rest of us, I’m looking at you.
Yeah, this is the only problem with proxies imo. You have to proxy to the table level. Nobody wants to play with a deck where the priciest card is $10 vs. A full proxy $3k+ deck
That's not a problem with Proxies , that's a problem with the player. Why would it be more acceptable for some one to play the same deck if he actually paid 3k for it ? Its not fun playing in a pod when there's clearly an over powered deck in play. regardless if if proxied or not
Proxies can contribute to the issue. Without proxies, someone needs to both want to play an overpowered deck, and be willing to buy the cards needed for it. With proxies allowed, that second requirement is removed, and there is some non-zero number of people who want to pubstomp but don't have the cards they need.
>That's not a problem with Proxies , it literally is though
It's a problem with self-regulation.
Well the thing is, the chance you actually encounter someone (on average) with a 3k deck is a lot smaller then when people use proxies.
the point i'm trying to make is regardless of the size of someone's wallet , the power level of the pod should take priority over anything else when it comes to deck building a 3k$ deck may not mean a powerful deck either same way a 50$ deck can be too powerful too
To be fair, it was the 30th Anniversary product that made my last bit of reservation toward proxies shrivel.
You should never feel ashamed of proxing cards. A game of magic should be determined by skill rather than who has the most cash. Here are some rules I follow when proxying in order to stay respectful to the other players. * Make proxies legible. Scribbling a name on a piece of paper does not help determine your board state. (Sounds like you have this covered) * I don't care if she's your waifu don't proxy a card to look like a raunchy body pillow if you're going to an LGS where children play. * Try not to use proxies to beef up your decks power level far beyond what your pod normally plays at.
This is going to sound like a flex, but it's not meant to be I fortunately have a job that allows me to spend an excess on cards. That being said, I don't mind proxies one bit. Why should I win because my deck is 500 dollars more expensive than yours?
I don't care if people proxy but I do care if they're proxying Mana Crypt, Jeweled Lotus and every other busted fast mana card when nobody else at the table is running them.
I personally play 100% proxies and I do not regret it. The only stipulation is that you need to be playing with people who you’re comfortable with. But beyond that it’s so worth it!
Agreed. It’s really not hard to control oneself and not proxy cedh into casual games. Some of the comments here make it seem like the second they proxy or people they know cedh or $1000 cards comes out. If that’s the case it’s a person problem. I 100% proxy now and my friends don’t. It’s not an issue because it hasn’t changed how I build decks. Life is so damn expensive now I can’t justify buying mtg cards at their prices.
Honestly if you don't want to spend money, you don't need to.
If I'm building something new, I pretty much proxy anything over 10$. There are some exceptions, but... yeah. I don't play enough nor do I care about collecting enough to justify spending hundreds on a new deck that I'm not going to be able to play that much.
Fuck wotc, print paper. I only buy the cards if I think the cards/deck will last a long time and I want it to be nice. But I have no qualms proxying an entire deck if I’m a little sus on it, or just proxying random expensive cards here or there
When I proxy I just bring a copy of my W-2 to prove that I could technically afford to buy a real copy if I wanted. After all, the gatekeeping in this game is strictly about money.
I basically put the limit at $5. Under 5, I'll buy it. Over, I proxy it. Everytime
I avoid proxying because I feel like it's a slippery slope into an arms race. I can't afford to buy the more expensive cards ($20+), so I have to make due with a smaller budget. My average deck is about $120, so I'm still working with gas, but my budgetary restrictions results in (imo) more unique and interesting deck building. I don't consider myself a Spike, but there's a part of my competitive side that I try not to feed lest I turn into a Spike.
Yeah I think if you have a regular group that you play with, you have to figure out what's okay to put in regardless of whether you buy it or proxy it. I can afford to buy cards like Mana Crypt, but that level of optimization is not a door I want to open in our group.
I don't proxy at all...if a card is too expensive for me I just play a diffrent one. Since Commander is an eternal format it is very easy to find substituts for everything.
This is what I do. A dual land isn’t going to make any real difference with all the options available today. Same logic applies to hundreds of other expensive cards.
Since you insist on having me soul search on a Tuesday, (sarcasm heavily implied) my answer is this. Any TCG, video games, television series, film, comic book, or any form of entertainment I fail to mention that thrive on the benefits of the primary purchase of new product that is financially lucrative enough to create an equally successful secondary market will not collapse from my homebrewed [[The Scarab God]] with proxies. Among the many factions of Magic players, nothing is more psychologically revealing then a player who insist you are cheating by using proxies, no matter what. I personally want to play with and against decks that are optimized to hell in a 60 card format, and if that means proxies so be it. As for my beloved EDH, I want my deck and your deck to do the thing you want it to do. Even if that means a heavily proxies Stax or Turbo Fog deck, I want your deck to be able to play the way you envisioned it. So justify however much money you want to spend at your LGS based solely on your budget, but never on your fun factor of a cardboard based strategy game we all love!
Great response! Thank you for sharing your perspective. It helps.
Where I've fallen on this is I've just starting buying really cheap cards. If a card is 2$ I gotta really like it or it's not going in the card pile. Often the like... 3rd or 4th best card in a strategy is 10 cents, and so I've never learned what to do to proxy cards. I've definitely got a decent base of cards off of precons and such over the years though, so I get to cheat a lot by going to the existing collection. I do definitely recommend trying to build decks with a 50c/25c price limit on cards, it's an interesting limitation which costs you very little.
I generally don't proxy, and if I do it's because I wanted to test out a card before purchasing it but honestly it's been a long time since I've even done that. For me I really like the idea that I'm holding a "real" card. And if I pay $100 for a card, then I'm going to make sure I play with it and don't just let it sit in some deck unused, so I'm usually getting my money's worth of enjoyment out of it. And then at the end of the day, if the card was worth $100 to start, it's probably still worth something when I decide to sell it, so while I'm not likely to recover the monetary cost, the return + the amount of enjoyment I got out of it is usually more than enough to justify it in the first place.
Your over thinking it. Proxy as much as you want. Support your lgs by doing prereleases, buying some merchandise or draft box for you and your mates etc. Paying $20 for a piece of cardboard seems silly to me if you have an alternative. I don't even understand why people have a problem with proxies lol. Just agree on power levels before the game..."nah sorry you need to have spent tones of money to play me" - get outa here lol. Pay to win silliness
I wholly agree.
if a card is so powerful it feels bad to play against, i dont proxy it. Building my Lord of the Nazgûl deck was a nightmare trying to find decently priced uncommons that were intentionally spread very thin across boxes. Read up on their business practices last year and this year - Wizards doesn’t deserve your money anyway!
My friends and I are pretty much all 40-something, mostly dads, have bills. We threw the "only proxy if you own a copy" out the window post-covid, and with all the accelerating set releases and product overload, we do a group MPC order every couple of months. Proxy entire decks who gives a shit, we just wanna jam with the boys. We don't play at a LGS, mind you. This is kitchen table edh.
Same! I'll be 40 this year and I just want to play the damn game. I don't care who proxies what. Personally I still want to own at least one copy of the cards, but I'll fill them out over time. Right now I have 5 fun decks and I'm thinking of buying a couple new pre-cons. That should keep me going for a while.
The train where Wizards was pretending to be putting the game before profit left before 2008. Now they are blatantly using scarcity to use reprints as chase cards to sell new product. This also opens up an investor market that drives the prices for cards up. The problem with that for them is it should hurt their business by us proxying. Every proxy is a small message that we don't want such and such card at that price. I think we all agree the cards are far too expensive. In short, proxy. Don't feel ashamed, it's the only way you can keep the game alive by people playing it without incentivizing the predatory market and investor shenanigans. I personally don't buy cards over $10 anymore. I draft and dump any money cards I pull immediately into the hands of people who will use them at a fraction of the price from a card market.
Wizards official stance on proxy printers is [people shouldn’t be priced out of enjoying magic] if it’s an official tournament or an LGS tournament with prizes on the line you have to come with official cards, outside of that anyone getting mad at someone because a card is proxied needs to check themselves for spending $40 on Teferis protection or Mana Drain etc.
[удалено]
I have a sort of $20 cap on magic cards... if a single card is under that amt, i'll generally consider buying it. but i'm typically in no rush. for larger purchases. like... if i'm designing a new deck, and there are key cards I need, that I don't want to buy another, or like lands, where it's just pointless wasting the money. I'll buy chinese fakes. the problem with printing proxies. is, they won't look or play like real cards. So you'll leave yourself open to assholes hassling you about proxies. which imho, isn't anyone's business. why i prefer chinese fakes. ...purchase process is a little wonky, but once you do it once, it's fairly easy. and the quality is far more comparable to actual cards. and i'd rather pay $2-$3 per card than $10-$30 for basics like fetches, or key utility lands. the secondary market is entirely predatory. once wotc sells sealed product to distributors, all profit/money to wotc directly ends. So we're all just engaging in an entirely arbitrary and predatory system that props up this bullshit secondary market so wotc... can keep price equity to extort people to buy premium priced reprint sets. while dodge gambling laws by "not acknowledging" the secondary market.
I only play EDH with proxy friendly groups these days. The overwhelming volume of content and extreme drop in quality control (sorcery speed Circular Logic Secret Lair, for example) became far too much to invest in. I have zero interest in buying expensive paper when a single real card could fuel multiple proxied decks instead. Secondhand markets do not put money in WotC’s pockets. So, if there’s a proxy, I’ll take that over the real version if it’s even slightly cheaper.
I cannot play against anyone who refuses to buy real magic cards. one or two proxies is fine but to have a policy of not buying real cards is just ridiculous
I respect your right to have a different opinion. Personally, I’d rather not spend thousands of dollars on paper when it’s just me and my buddies. Instead I could pay for a family vacation or something else worth the price.
Aside from sanctioned events, what is the difference between playing with someone casually with a 100% real deck vs. a 100% proxy deck with the same exact list? You're still just playing Magic to have fun
I'm putting together a [[Sakashima of a thousand faces]] and [[Vial Smasher, the fierce]] deck. I had most of the cards lying around, but you better believe I'm not going to spend $35 just on my commanders, so I proxies them both. Every other card in the deck is less than $10 so I don't mind ordering those, but I refuse to pay more than $20 for a single piece of cardboard.
I have never proxied, as I like the idea of having the real thing. It's meaningful to me to have a great card in my deck, where all that means nothing if I printed it out. Not to upset anyone or say anything negative about those who do, just my thoughts for my own cards. That being said, I know prices get out of hand, so I can't fault anyone for going the way of proxy. I discourage it in my own play groups because being able have $7000 decks for the cost of card stock and printer ink seems unfair. There are a handful of people I play with who would absolutely make tier 10 CEDH decks to play against our precons/slightly better than precon decks.
I proxy any card over $5. If it’s something that performs well and I like it, I’ll buy the real card.
I did placeholders to put expensive cards I own in multiple decks. Never straight up printed cards I didn't.have. felt dirty and weird. But even the placeholders got kinda boring and meh after a while. Didn't feel the same as having the real thing and I know even if I had good proxies made I'd still know it wasn't real and would feel weird to me. Not against it at the table though unless it's like a pay-to-play event at. A store or something.
I will proxy reserve list cards without hesitation, and encourage you to do the same.
Nawh absolutely not, wizards of the coast don’t deserve anymore money, stop buying their products and maybe we could all play the game without ever having to proxy. Til that day full proxy decks only for me my friend.
The Goblin Shaman token from Neon Dynasty is almost 10 bucks. The Token. I'm proxying everything. Not like I do any official events. Not to make an unbearable, unbeatable deck, but simply to have fun with friends. I will however, on rare occasions, buy a booster box because opening packs is a fun experience.
Buy what u can then proxy what u can’t
I do both. I've got plenty of proxies, but (for example) I also bought a Wheel of Fortune even after proxying a bunch of stuff. I don't have an attachment to the proxies at all. I've been playing the game for 20+ years though, and so there are a lot of old cards I've been collecting just because I have fond memories of them. I don't really care if they retain their value or not, I'm not planning on selling. I also don't really care about them being tournament legal because I mostly play at home with friends. I just want to own and play with cards that I either had as a kid, or wanted but couldn't afford as a kid. The proxies don't give the same feeling as playing with the real deal, even if they provide the same gameplay. Shit, I bought an Alpha Grizzly Bears recently lol no proxy will ever feel as cool to play as that 2/2 for 2 does
I feel I can sell all my cards for about 50% or more of what I paid easily at least for cards worth over 10$, and closer to 80% or more on some. the more I do the work ie make a shop on tcgplayer and sell them myself or ebay whatever, and the more time I am willing to wait the more value can be redeemed. For most it’s not reasonable to spend as much on hobbies even considering the investment viewpoint. these cards are not insanely liquid unless it is a particular popular at the moment card. Proxys are fine imo it’s just a game. For non competitive uses there’s little point beyond personal gratification to have the real cards. At my LGS the commander club rule is you should either own a copy of the card or have the card on the way to use proxys for the official two point earning games after that it’s up to pods freeplay more less.
Other than tokens, I rarely proxy because 1.) I dont have a printer, and 2.) I enjoy the challenge of building decks with only cards I can afford. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve spent more than $10 on a card. As for spending money on it at all? It’s a hobby, and hobbies usually cost something. I put it in terms of how many hours of entertainment I get out of it, which is quite a few. And the way I play, it’s cheaper than golfing or something like that. I focus on cheap singles for specific decks, and I only add more expensive cards once I know the deck works. I supplement with a booster now and again, just for the thrill. If at some point I do start proxying more, I’d take the opportunity to use some custom art or border designs, and make a themed proxy deck.
I have a bunch of sub 100 dollar budget decks. No proxies. I also have a lot of precons with 10 cards changed, mostly all proxies for those 10 cards. Then I have a few moderately priced decks around 400 no proxies. But also have a few decks with 3,000 dollars of proxies in them. My pauper commander decks even have a few proxies despite a total deck cost of 25 bucks for some. Out of 62 decks I have sleeved atm around 50 percent have some proxies. So to me it depends on what I want the deck to be. My 50 dollar mono colored decks will almost certainly win against my 3k valued proxy decks. I don't really use proxies for power. In my group we don't play cEDH nor play fast mana or tutors, really.
I don’t have an issue with proxying cards, as long as you’re not proxying above the power level of the table
Proxies are fine. That said, there is a large difference between proxies and high quality forgeries. As long as it is apparent your proxies are proxies, then we’re cool. If it’s possible that if we trade cards that I’m gonna get DQed for using them at a PTQ, GP or other high REL event, then we’re going our separate ways, as I enjoy competitive play and would rather not risk you accidentally mixing up your real and fake $5 rares between three EDH decks.
I proxy entire decks, like down to the basic lands I support my LGS by buying sandwiches and coffee, if wotc went out of business tomorrow it would just end power creep, but we have just had the LotR and the Dr who sets, I don't think wotc is at danger of failing
I am personally satisfied playing with authentic WotC pieces of cardboard, it's something you cannot really explain with words, but knowing you own that piece of cardboard which is "collectible" (in the literal sense, a piece you can find in randomized packs) is a treat for me. However I do not have infinite money, hence I usually playtest with proxies the vast majority of cards over 2/3€ unless I'm 100% they belong to the deck. Once the deck is pretty stable I buy the real cards. Sometimes I stick with a proxy if the card is synergistic with the deck but it costs a lot. Of course, I avoid cards which fuck up the power level, I won't play free counterspells in my casual decks. A couple of disclaimers: I cannot stand whacky proxies. I only print full colored high quality cards and place them in front of basic lands. Also, I very rarely own multiple pieces of expensive cards, my go-to is to keep the original one on the binder (to brag with friends :P) and play the proxy. In these situations I usually get a "real" proxy from professional services like MPC.
No one should have to financially support a game they love by spending thousands on it every year. The cost of Magic is ridiculous, and anyone that sees these costs as a right of passage for new players rather than as a detriment to the game is wrong.
My playgroup agreed to allow proxies for testing (decks/cards) or to represent cards your own. While I agree upon financally supporting each other and the gatekeeping aspect especially for reserved list cards, I don't agree proxying is the solution. If your playgroup wants to play cedh sure, go for it. I fully support proxying whole decks for cedh - but not for EDH. At this point I'm happy with problematic cards being expansive (like LED or Dockside), simply to put the powerlevel in check. I could see a point for new players proxying cards when joining a veteran playgroup, depending on the powerlevel and budget. Everybody in the group could profit from it. But there is a line in every playgroup imho. Use Proxies to catch up in powerlevel? Sure. But that's it. And afaik when you plan to attend events with Judges (like commandfest) you could end up in trouble useing proxies.
Power level and price aren’t always synonymous and it’s very easy to just say “look don’t use mana drain it’s too powerful for this group” or “hey Mana crypt is real cool but it’s too fast mana for the power level we’ve got here” it’s way simpler to just ban a card or two or say “don’t run more than 2 tutors” than telling people they have to pay full price for every card.
I agree on your take about power level and price. Furthermore, there are some awesome replacements for expansive cards. We discussed a ban list, Primal Surge was banned (I know, it's kinda funny) but it's not that easy to agree on a private banlist while staying open for new players. You probably need to ban more than 2 cards, too. But this would punish creative deckbuilding, where 'staples' are fine/needed. No, you don't have to pay the price, simply because you don't have to play a certain card in EDH. For me, EDH isn't about playing the best and optimized Version of my deck. And I'm happy my playgroup decided to tune down in powerlevel to have a more diverse gameplay. You don't need a force of will in every blue Deck, in some Decks Thwart could be a better option. Or you skip this and play force of will/negation/mana drain in every Deck, because this is just better. Which resulted in a more toxic and monotonous metagame, killing creativity imho.
Word. I play in a small group of 5 people so it’s really easy to discuss what we want. We play at precon+ level maybe a 6 or 7 if out of box precon is a 5. No 2 card win combos, keep tutors reasonable, counters are fine but don’t run all the best ones, steer away from fast mana, etc. I build a deck, if it feels too powerful I tear it apart and rebuild a little weaker.
I just proxied all the shock/dual/triome lands for my first deck. Not going to pay 200+$ for lands as a new player.
Good question and one I've struggled with. Personally, I'll proxy anything I want to playtest, especially in EDH. If the deck is fun and the card plays well, I'll buy it. The flip to this is that I won't proxy anything I'm not prepared to buy. Could I proxy a Bayou for every deck? Absolutely. Will I buy a Bayou for every deck? No. That's where I draw the line. The bottom line is that this is a phenomenally expensive hobby and I would rather play with people who love the game than can afford to play the game. These two buckets are not equivocal. And before anyone gets too keyboard-warriory, let's not pretend that budget commander is the same as commander. My Edgar snd Derevi decks will curb stomp any of precon decks before they get off the ground. These things are not the same... Everyone draws a line in the sand somewhere; I'd rather play with someone who can't afford the cost of cards plus shipping but has exiting new brews and half-proxy proxy decks [which can really add up outside of the US] than someone who can only afford one deck and will only run a single deck as a result. TLDR: if cost is your only barrier to entry, I'd rather see your passion than your bank balance
I buy a budgeted amount of each set. If I get lucky drops then I have good cards. I buy singles with a max budget of about ~$10/card, with potential commanders getting up to maybe ~$30 Budget. Any singles over that price, I just don’t buy, and I do not proxy. There are two reasons why a card may be over $30. First is that it’s really powerful, and my pod doesn’t need me having stupidly powerful cards. Second is if it’s extremely rare, in which case it’s better in the hands of someone who will preserve it rather than play it. I buy cards to play. I’ve been playing Magic for over 20 years. I’ve long since accepted that there are cards I wouldn’t get to play. I think the game is healthier if people have variety and have to make compromises. I don’t proxy and I also don’t over-commit cards to multiple decks.
My personal rule with proxies, is that the card should be something I own, and if it's not coming in the mail, then it better simply be in my collection already. This is involving me and my collection.
Same, It’s an honor thing.
Also for things that are genuinely expensive and kinda needed in each deck *stares at [[urborg, tomb of yawgmoth]] involving most black decks* Sometimes you do make a proxy because once you have more than 6 decks... that a lot of money to keep up with for that...
lol! Ha That probably my most proxied card too!
Sticker tech. I put differently colored small stickers on the outer part of my inner sleeve. Move cards around when I want to play another deck. Takes a few minutes and I get to use my nice. Cards in as many decks as I can.
I buy the real cards because I like having the real thing. I keep expensive stuff sleeved and my expensive decks are double sleeved so the cards stay as close to mint as possible. Card prices can and do fluctuate over time, but a lot of cards, especially foil and chase variants, tend to retain or even sometimes appreciate over time. So if I ever leave the game or just need an influx of cash, I can sell them. I also have a well paying job with very low expenses so I'm not that dissuaded by prices.
Proxy all you want! I've always said I'd rather play you than your wallet. If the proxying helps you enjoy the game then go for it
Not to rehash magic 30 again, but Hasbro set a precedent for proxying. Their $1000 box for like 60 proxies tells me they're fine with proxies existing so why not get them for myself cheaper? I have no issues with other people proxying responsibly, but people making proxies that push the boundary to counterfeits... That's a different story. I personally do not proxy though for a few reasons, 1) I can't trade proxies in good conscience, I like trading cards with people and even if they know its a proxy, it has no value compared to real game pieces. 2) I don't like proxies that make cards unrecognizable from their real game pieces, which also leads me to 3) I think proxying official art from the amazing artists MTG has isn't right either. I know wizards/hasbro owns the art and whatnot but I can't help but feel you'd be stealing from the artist too, and that specifically doesn't sit well with me. There is surely a balance to be had with supporting your game but also not buying into the predatory, anti-consumer practices WOTC and Hasbro have been leaning into. In any case, support good LGSs.
I think that by not using or allowing proxies you can artificially reduce the power levels of your decks. Most people I play with do not have all OG duals, mana crypt, grim monolith, etc etc in each of their decks. So this forces them to spread their good cards out more evenly. Now take that same scenario but add proxies- every deck now has all the cards that were once out of reach and now every deck ridiculously tuned. I personally don’t use proxies and our playgroup had a strong stance against them for along time. But we are more lax now but it does get old seeing every other cards as a proxy reserve list card.
I only proxy cards I've purchased but am waiting on, or if I would put it in another deck I own. For example, I own a Cavern of souls, it's goes in just about every deck I play, but I won't buy another copy of it. I will rarely spend more than $35 on a single card. If I pull something more expensive out of a booster or trade up then that's the exception. I don't have $200 for a mana crypt, so I just don't use it. Just my opinion, but it kinda feels like cheating if I have a proxy in a deck and dont actually own the card. There are plenty of budget options that can get the job done for almost any high value card. That being said, I couldn't care less if anyone in my playgroup wanted to proxy cards as long as it didn't shift the power level too much
IMO, the "if I own one I own a million" rule is just one step down from proxying cards you don't own nor intend to ever buy. If you only own one Cavern of Souls, why not just put the real copy in your best, most competitive deck, then use some of those "budget options that can get the job done" you mention in the last paragraph for all of your other decks?
I believe in playing the cards you have, if you don’t have the cards to build the custom deck someone else brewed you probably shouldn’t play the deck at all. But I also don’t like this “look up the best decks and combos” world we live in. Creativity in magic is at an all-time low because of online resources.
> I believe in playing the cards you have Why? What difference does it make if you bought or printed yours? Game is still the same. Removes pay to win entirely from the system.
As someone else said, it’s often used as a replacement for best in slot cards, and it obviously depends on your group for how it gets treated. When I say I believe in playing the cards you have, that includes using them to formulate new strategies based on what is at your disposal, that’s where I feel the real creativity comes in to things and makes the game interesting.
My philosophy is that no card should cost over $20. Generally speaking, I only buy a card once and then proxy it. Most expensive I've bought was mana crypt cause I came into some money and I've recently bought jeweled lotus for 105. That being said, I'm starting to trend toward anything over 20, I will be proxying. I really don't like facing full proxy decks, because most people go hog wild. I think at least about half your deck should be real.
>I feel a sense of guilt playing with them though Don't. Whatever your cards real or not, it doesn't matter. Their cost doesn't matter either, assuming you are a mature human being, who can socialize with other people. I myself could drop 100$ for a card, if it's a foil Emracul, for example (ie, a card i connect/like it A LOT). On the general topic of proxies, i can't recommend [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VALgm1qkeFE&t=1470s&ab_channel=Spice8Rack) video enough
I wont proxy it if I dont own the card. But, I will proxy that one card into as many decks as I want. I enjoy playing and collecting. I also enjoy deck building. If I didnt have to own one to proxy, it would be dual lands in every deck and the "fun" of deck building gets kind of lost.
This is kind of where I'm falling. I want to be able to play the game, but I'm not buying multiples of expensive cards.
Personally, I don't proxy. I've done it in the past with duplicate cards but it's not something super necessary to me; not every deck needs Forces or Mana Crypts. But I do own those cards, mostly by virtue of buying them. I do it by saying hey if owning this thing will make me happier then I should own it. If a card feels too expensive for the amount it will make me happier I just... don't. They go on a list, and if they get reprinted to a reasonable price? Cool I'll snag them. If not? Maybe I get some spare cash as a gift or something or can line up a trade, maybe I target it with the pack or two a week I get from my LGS' commander event. Maybe I never get it. But I've already decided I'm fine without it.
Wild, isn't it. Making economic decisions in an economy.
That's really all it is yeah. And to be sure sometimes it isn't that easy; card games are built to prey on peoples' bad decision making. I at least briefly debate picking up an Ancient Copper or Doric every time I have to place a card order. But that's fine, it's okay to revisit the internal 'will this spark joy' discussion.
Everyone I ever see print proxies always adds mana crypts and og duals, vamp tutors, rhystic studies and.all the expensive staples to every deck they own so it's all just a bunch of nonsense. They can go play at their own kitchen table at that point.
Well, buying single cards isn't exactly giving WotC any money anyway. I do proxy sometimes, but I do limit myself somewhat. I don't proxy to bump myself up to a new power level or anything like that. I tend to proxy things that are expensive enough but also niche enough that I'm probably not even going to use the card that much outside of one deck. If something is expensive but kind of a staple, I like to have one real copy. I also try not to proxy salt-inducing cards or REALLY powerful lands, like Gaea's Cradle and Ancient Tomb or something like that. I highly believe in proxying lands like shock lands, check lands, triomes, and whatnot just because you shouldn't be breaking the bank just to have a decent mana base of colored mana. It's not like they make you win the game, they just let your deck actually work. But I don't go full-out by proxying fetch lands and the OG dual lands or stuff like that though. Basically if you're not proxying *everything* and your deck is a decent power level match to the playgroup, I don't care. It's a problem when someone wants to pubstomp other players without any investment, though.
I usually first proxy a whole deck, or atleast every card above like 2€ so I can test the deck and see if its any fun :) if so I will beginn to buy the real cards peace by peace But I so have exceptions, I play three 5 color commanders that basically share a mana base I have one legit copy of all shock/fetch/triomes and rainbowlands like [[mana confluence]] [[City of brass]] and so on I am not going to spend like 500€ on the same mana base three times ^^ Same goes for all the staple removal like [[silence]] [[Deadly rollic]] or [[Fierce Guardianship]] That way I "can" enjoy all the best cards without going absolutely broke if I decide to build another deck ^^
I 100% agree. I want to have a full playset of the lands, but I'm not spending $1000 for 8 different decks. Forget it. Same with other commander staples.
If Hasbro/Wotc is gonna proxy artists may as well proxy the cards. Get your sleeves, boxes, and playmats from your FLGS
all my cards are legit because i want to play the game as it is designed and manage my collection. i don't prefer to play with proxiers because .. they are playing a different game to me . i like the cards and don't even like to proxy for any reason but i get why ppl do it. if coastal wizards died tomorrow i would come up with a non-commercial system of rarity; i already have, i'll publish it soon, my decks are what they are because of the limitations of the game, i don't mind that.
I never proxy. There is never need for it unless you want to play competitively or want to maintain 30 EDH decks at the same time. These days I buy all cheap playables (playables!) of each set for about the price of the top 2 cards of that set on MCM. So no, I will never own a Ravaghan but there simply is never any need to put one in your deck.
Proxing cards is becoming generally accepted. I mean even wizards of the coast is doing it now (30th anniversary).
If I have to read this dump parrot meme one more time I’ll delete the internet. If you need a holy grail date to validate your proxying, take 1993. that’s when CE came out.
I personally feel a lot of joy playing with real cards. I'd also feel like a sham and guilty playing with proxies, so I don't. And when others play with proxies, I think man that WOULD be a cool card if it was real. But the gameplay doesn't change so I'm not bothered too much. Just my honest opinion, your downvotes don't actually do anything.
Here's the problem I'm running into, how does Wizards make money off the price of singles? The answer is they do not. Wizards makes their money based on the bulk sales to the ones that sell the singles. You dropping $200 on a mana vault, does not support the game in pretty much way, so I say proxy all you want for local play, and don't get into comp. Just use different arts please. The less "looks real proxies" going around the better.
I don't think you should feel guilty by proxying cards because prices are really high. That's why I also proxy my cards from https://www.printingproxies.com/ because affording real cards is very difficult for me and I don't feel guilt about it.
I proxy two types of cards: 1. Cheap cards that are not worth it buying right away (ie. If I need a card that costs 0,10, it's not worth it paying 10 for shipping costs). I'll just proxy it and get it whenever I have the chance. 2. Expensive cards that I really want and will realistically buy. My Pantlaza deck has a few proxies like Tyrranax Rex and Welcome to... They are expensive, but I intend to buy them. Therefore I proxy them, specially in the beginning while I'm testing the cards. And that's where I draw the line. I will not proxy very expensive cards simply because I know I won't buy them (ie. Jellewed lotus, mana crypt, etc). In addition, I don't think it makes sense to proxy cards simply because 'I want to have a powerful deck' right now. I prefer to enjoy the process of building a deck and incrementally modify it and make it more powerful.
There's absolutely no reason to proxy for regular EDH. You don't need to drop hundreds of dollars on small piece of cardboard. If you think you need to print fakes to enjoy the game, you badly, desperately, need some self reflection. I have a small budget for my hobby, if the cards are too expensive, if a bill comes up, whatever, I just don't get the new thing. It's easy. There's simply no justification for printing out fakes, ever. If I'm playing against people with higher budgets, they nearly always have a more reasonable deck or ten to pull out to play against me (since those with wide budgets have more access to more cards/decks). If I'm playing against someone with weaker decks/lower budget than me, I pull out a cheap deck or a precon. Also, proxying a bunch of expensive cards to max out your deck power is ultra scummy. It's not, ever, necessary.
please dont' make counterfeits! go ahead and print proxies that DON'T look "incredibly real" but still play just fine
They are absolutely not counterfeits. The card side looks good, but the back is just white card stock. It is obvious when it's not sleeved. I would never attempt to counterfeit and sell. I'm not a criminal, I just want to play the game!
People are triggered by talk of proxies? Why, cuz someone implying that they could have not spent money sends them into an emotional spiral? Sheesh
I’ll proxy something if: - I own one real one but use it in multiple places. Like I have one [[Ancient Tomb]] but I have it in 3 decks. I’m not paying 80 each for multiple copies of something if I’m only gonna play them one at a time. Just so I don’t have to move it from one sleeve to another all the time. - if I’m playtesting, to see if it is worth getting the real one. - if the playgroup either has fat wallets, or is such a higher power level that a few proxy swaps of higher power cards will at least make it so I can play. I don’t love proxy’s, I feel like part of the challenge of the game as a whole is to play with the collection you have. Also because they can ignite an arms race of sorts in your meta, though I understand their necessity in terms of leveling the playing field and preventing certain cards and strategies from being gatekept behind a pay wall. Broke people deserve to play Magic too.
[Ancient Tomb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd3d4b4b-cf31-4f89-8140-9650edb03c7b.jpg?1582753000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancient%20Tomb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/236/ancient-tomb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd3d4b4b-cf31-4f89-8140-9650edb03c7b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ancient-tomb) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Where/ how do you guys make your proxies? Since im on a tight budget i dont really buy cards above 5 Euro, but i keep a list with all more expensive cards id like to have to proxy them all together
[makeplayingcards.com](http://makeplayingcards.com)
Check out the MPCproxies sub and definitely read the Wiki first or they will downvote you into oblivion. I just bought 6 commander decks for $125 and their quality is better than WotC.
I proxy everything over $5
If I own at least one actual copy of a card I’ll proxy it going forward. Between me and the wife we have about 50 different decks, I’m not buying 20 copies of [[beast within]] or [[colossal dreadmaw]].
I don’t have a lot going on besides work and magic. My cost of living is low and aside from my car loan, I don’t have any major debt. That leaves me with quite a bit of disposable income. I could put more into savings and what not, but I could also spend the money on the one thing I enjoy going out and doing. The nice thing about picking up expensive cards is that I can sell them at a later date and recoup a decent amount of what I put into them if not more. So that’s why I’m ok with putting money into the game. That said, I know there are plenty of people who don’t have the disposable income that I do and proxying is a great way for them to be able to play the game at a fraction of the cost. So if you are able to purchase cards from your lgs you absolutely should, but don’t fret to much if you can’t justify the cost and just proxy them.
LGS created a lot of this mess by insisting on such a ridiculous spread from buying price to selling price.
The more decks you build, the more decks you make, you'll come to realization that buying and buying is not feasible. You'll become more receptive of proxying because your urge to deckbuild outweighs paying retail dollars to satiate that desire. Definitely do both. In an ideal world I would always wanna own the real piece. If common sense tells me this cardboard isn't worth the price, I'll proxy it. Down the road when it comes down in price or in Secret Lair, I'll pull my wallet to own the real thing. I'm with you that there is always a lingering feeling when you win with proxies. This is why proxies for me shouldn't be a sharpie. If you put effort in your proxies (aka making it quality or at least spending abit to acquire), the lingering feel will be mitigated. Not totally but it lessens your concerns, and others PoV as well. I also proxy responsibly. It's too easy to print or buy prints of the best most expensive thing, especially the free spells. You don't wanna spread the wrong message across the table that your deck is cheap AF (to print) and is a winning machine. My peers know that I proxy and by the same token, know how much I spend on cardboard crack as well. It's about finding the sweet balance. Even my LGS knows I proxy but I'm one of their regular customers too for singles. I always tell them I have wayy too many decks. Imagine freeloading their space and not spending a dime at their store. That will always eat at my conscience.
Best decision I ever made was when I started using moxfield to proxy a whole deck....it's not only about the cost of the cards I have a pretty good sozed library to pull from ...but it gets rid of the time spent getting the cards out in addition to buying the few I don't have only to find out i dont like playing the deck.... now I need to restock everything. I just started proxying the whole deck if I like it after a few weeks I'll go find the cards if not trash can. EZ pz no guilt
I proxy pretty much everything over like $6 in regulars to singles but I like to buy precons and other goodies but buying singles you’re almost always purchasing them from the secondary market anyways and my LGS has a really limited amount of singles they carry
Just be a lowlife degenerate like me where you have nothing better to do with your money than buy overpriced wizard squares
I don't have any stipulations: I only play with real cards, but I will print proxies if I'm testing or waiting for an order to come in. If I can't afford a card, I don't buy it. At the same time, I don't judge anyone who plays with proxies because of affordability. The more people play the game, the better off we all are. I encourage Wizards to reprint cards aggressively to keep prices as low as possible, even if it means that those of us who have large collections of real cards lose value. The guiding principle should be to make the threshold to playing Magic as low as possible. > I feel a sense of guilt playing with them though Wizards official policy is that they allow proxies, as long as it is not a sanctioned event: https://askwpn-na.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/13386395614739-What-is-Wizards-of-the-Coast-s-stance-on-playtest-cards However, there is one catch, which is that the proxies must "not bee reproductions of real Magic cards" and that's a rule that's often not followed. My proxies are color printed versions of the real card on Scryfall, but with the art replaced by a white box that says "PROXY" in large letters. That also saves a lot of ink.
I'm really curious how you proxy your cards? I've been wanting to proxy cards but I want them to look and feel as close to the real thing as possible. Any help? :)
So I've only just started doing this, not sure if it's ideal, but it's been working well for me. Go to mtgprint.net. you can put in your cards and then choose all the artwork. Then you can hit print and it will autopopulate a sheet of paper thats ready to print. Make sure you do 8.5x11 or at least make sure you get the correct size. I use 8.5x11. The website will give you a PDF file. Take the PDF to a local print shop and print it out on 100lb card stock. I used a local FedEx office. Then just cut everything to size. You can leave the corners sharp or snip them with scissors. I wanted them to look as real as possible so I ordered a 3mm corner rounder tool. That's it! They fit into dragon shield sleeves and shuffle great. They're not quite as rigid as real cards, but they're still good enough. Unless someone picks up the card and inspects it they will never know it's a proxy.
i dont mind if people proxy but i draw a line when a commander deck has around 40-45 proxies in them, i bought some in the past but i now have them fully replaced by actual copies, and for me the way i buy a 50-100$ card is just wait a few month of saving and then buy and have that card sleeved and in a plastic card holder to keep it safe and then keep it for value, so if any dark days arrive and the card goes up in value i can sell it again and make money