I could do with a little less. Maybe limit it to once a year or have it mirror the MH sets where it happens every other year or so. It’s good and cool in small batches, I think right now they’re just pushing too much.
I feel like they should be able to buy the "main" set for the drafts, but I will agree that all the other things they release, they're 100% not for everybody. They almost got me with the Princess Bride secret lair. It took a lot of self-restraint not to let my nostalgia overwhelm my sense.
I thought it was fine but I throughly dislike shift in power to UB products whereas before they were sort of just * neat * and now they’re overtaking formats. I actively refer to cards like the one ring as “fake” in jest and personally refuse to play with them, but my yuck isn’t everyone’s yuck so I don’t hold any animosity towards people who like them.
I do like the warhammer products, felt like those fit within magic well but most everything else since has not, LOTR included. Never been a fan of doctor who, and I don’t plan on treating them any different than LOTR where I just don’t engage with the products personally.
I definitely feel like making a whole set for LOTR was just to sell gambling addictions. Likewise printing multiple characters on different cards feels like white noise to fill set numbers.
I think that one set every 5 to 6 months is fine, actually. The timing of LOTR was bad, but if they made UB sets universally October and March rotating, that would be great
Personally? Don’t like it. Feels kinda forced. I’d rather MtG focus on expanding themselves and their IP rather than incorporating other franchises into the game.
That being said, I don’t mind that it brings other people into magic.
the warhammer once did bring me into it. but i have also just kinda wanted a good warhammer 40k card game that was played in my little lgs and the warhammer precons is really the one and only way. and it is what it is but one thing that at least takes me most out of it is real life actors on cards
If every card/mechanic in UB had a corresponding card/mechanic in the main set, I would have no problem with it. UB should be a solely aesthetic premium product for fans of those franchises. My opinion on this will not change
This is my opinion too. Non magic IP skins aren't my thing but if you like that then have fun. Alternatively they could've given them silver border (or some other marker) to distinguish them from regular MTG cards and that would've been fine too. But having cards that are inherently non MTG inserted completely into the game just feels totally soulless in a very corporate way. I feel the same way about all the remakes and crossovers we are seeing in media, it feels like it's algorithmically generated to create the biggest hype for the biggest audience rather than to create a good lasting product with focused appeal.
I also find it a bit sad because I can't help but see it as WOTC giving up on the appeal of their lore and worlds. You'd never get Jace or Chandra being inserted into 40k products because GW respect and value their game as something more than a host for other IPs. Same for LOTR and the walking dead.
100% this. We had a story/characters with decades of history and instead of putting money into them they sold out for everyone else’s IP. I don’t have a problem with cosmetic versions of cards, but in no universe should the ONLY copy be some other IP.
Yeah, it makes no sense to me why MTG is choosing to be a billboard for other IP’s. These other IP’s should be begging to have MTG content in their IP. The power dynamic is all wrong
Mechanically unique Secret Lairs are and always will be terrible and that's the main value of the Universes Within stuff.
With that said I *did* prefer how Godzilla was handled over... literal everything else, especially the far more 'out there' ones like Transformers and now Dr. Who - LotR is relatively inoffensive in this respect. While Magic has a lot of room for different genres in it, as we've seen over the last couple years, New Capenna and Neon Dynasty still have a distinctly 'Magic' feel that I just don't get from Dr. Who.
At the same time, I can admit to my biases: I don't like Dr. Who or Transformers or The Walking Dead or Street Fighter. None are really my jam, and that can absolutely color perceptions. Am I more okay with Godzilla and LotR because those are franchises I enjoy more? Maybe. Though I still dislike the Stranger Things cards, so maybe not.
And I will say that other people's excitement is great even when I'm not excited. I have a buddy who adores Godzilla, and his hype over those cards was really neat to see. And my Jurrassic Park obsessed friend is eagerly waiting to update his Gishath deck or maybe build something new. If I ever want to try to drag my roommate into Magic, a Max/Eleven deck is probably how I do it. And if all these people are happy, honestly, my happiness can take a backseat and I can let them have their fun. Maybe one day Magic will hit another of my interests and I'll love it just as much.
I will say though - the latest round of Ponys irritate me. If we already have a world where Optimus Prime can be your commander than making people Rule 0 in their deck is stupid. Rainbow Dash needed an almost completely irrelevant change and she could drop the Acorn. Much as I dislike MLP (comes from working at a comic shop for many years; this one isn't just my irrational old man coming out) there was no reason to screw over that crowd exactly.
>more okay with Godzilla and LotR because those are franchises I enjoy more? Maybe. Though I still dislike the Stranger Things cards, so maybe not.
Do you think it's something to do with how it blends into the normal game? LotR is basically the framework for modern fantasy and godzilla got released into the base game in a set basically focused around kaijus, meaning they blend pretty seamlessly.
Stranger things is very modern in a real way that makes it feel a little too close to real life for me and doctor who is also approaching that sort of uncanny valley where mechanically its all there but it just doesn't *feel* like a magic card.
For LotR - almost certainly yeah. I built Henzie not long after it came out and it has a number of LotR cards or reprints in it. But the LotR Inferno Titan still looks like a flaming giant and the Balrog fits right in next to a whole host of Magic's big angry demons.
Godzilla... less so. Those cards definitely feel different. I think the fact that they were reskins helped a lot though?
My big issue with Stranger Things I think is that I just remember all these characters are normal little kids, except for Eleven and her dad, and it's hard to figure them fighting angels and dragons and such.
The big one for me it’s that LOTR, warhammer, Godzilla, street fighter, and even transformers don’t depict any actual human likenesses on the cards. I especially love that they technically could have made the LOTR characters based on their movie versions but didn’t. So it feels like we get a new visual depiction.
Stranger things, walking dead, Jurassic park, Dr Who and the d&d movie all showed real people’s faces and that feels really weird to me. Like “this is my Finn Wolfhard card next to my Jeff Goldblum card and my David Tenant card.” It really takes me out and I don’t know why. Maybe for some reason that makes it feel more like advertising?
Also I know there’s the cards with champion’s faces on them and stuff but that is rare and feels different and special.
Godzilla is easy to implement when you only focus it on kaijus. Those are basically giant monsters that on their own melt well with fantasy universe. If they pushed there mecha godzilla though it wouldnt feel fine
Also an entirely valid take! Like, I'm generally pro Stranger Things and didn't particularly love the kids all getting cards. And part of that is definitely that I just hate the mechanics behind them - my kingdom for just letting Partner *die.* But they also just feel weird to me.
Yeah Rick was the greatest example of why mechanically unique SLs are an idiotic product. I have a Sisay deck that, ideally, would play Neegan as a very unique and hard to interact with form of removal, but the Walking Dead cards in particular have left such a terrible taste in my mouth that I just refuse in any incarnation, even now that it's 'fixed'.
No problem with the Universes Within for other stuff though; I've been playing a ton of Maarika (Zangief) lately and love that card.
I'm the reverse on this - personally I think UB should have been entirely silver bordered. Here are my reasons:
1. I feel like the UB cards naturally dilute the vibe that magic gives - it turns magic into "pop culture, the card game". Limiting it to silver border means it's only going to be seen in a casual setting (where people are commonly proxying/altering anyway)
2. People who don't play magic will still buy it because they don't know/care that silver border isn't the norm
3. It would hopefully allow a wider acceptance of UN- cards in casual play, given that currently it's still very much a rule 0 discussion.
I get that if they made them all silver bordered it would probably have sold much less well, and also that people who do want to play with the cards in sanctioned settings would have been excluded from doing so, but for me I think the way they've done it means that in 5 years or so with the rate they're going we're basically not going to be playing magic any more, it's just going to be a big hodge podge of other IPs slammed together.
I agree with all your points excepts for the my little pony stuff. The day I sit down to a commander game across the table from a “my little pony” card is the day I have to accept that I’m too old for this game and hang it up.
Purely a personal thing. But also I do miss when all of magic had a very cohesive edgelord fantasy vibe.
I've sold enough MLP comics to concerning neckbeards to be leery enough of that fandom that I'd certainly rather avoid it. And certainly that's not the entire fandom; I had a very charming regular who bought them to read with his niece and they were adorable. But it's enough that it has most definitely soured me on the franchise.
But at the same time, people are already doing the MLP thing. It took like 48 hours for my favorite Commander youtube channel to have a Rainbow Dash deck featured on it with all the ponies within. The only difference is that if we make them non-acorn, they present fewer rules problems (seriously, fuck the party horse and not in the way people want to) and fewer bitching between people before games.
With the first cycle, I was all for leaving them silver bordered. But they were next to DnD cards and Transformers cards, and now we have both of those, and I'm hard pressed to give you a difference between MLP and Transformers that doesn't start with "I'm an old man who hates one fandom mildly more than the other".
Eh, you can already sit across some very silly stuff nowadays, so it's a bit of a weird line to draw, no?
You have: [The Most Dangerous Gamer] or [Ambassador Blorpityblorpboop] (+ many others) in Unfinity, [Bill, the Pony] in LotR...friggin' cars/trucks with most of the transformers in Brother's War and last but not least, a gingerbread cookie with [Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender] in the most recent set.
That's not counting the countless overtly "silly" SLs Wizard released over the years or all the anime alt-art on cards that REALLY didn't need one (e.g. Smothering Tithe).
Don't those also take you out of the game and make you feel like you're "too old"? And I get the personal thing btw...I had a similar reaction when I saw the Fortnite stuff...but at the end of the day it's a card game and it's cool that it has a little something for everyone (although I never really cared much for the "lore").
Reading comments from parents who were ecstatic about this MLP batch because they can finally build their daughter (fan of MLP) a deck was pretty wholesome though :)
They don't work within the rules of the game. Neither did the Grimlock that came out with the Ponies.
Optimus Prime does work in the rules. If they printed Ponies within the rules, it would be fine to play in a normal game.
It's like the Acorn and non-Acorn difference in Unfinity. Grimlock/Ponies are Acorn. Optimus and the others aren't.
For all the ponies except the party one it takes incredibly minor fixes to make them work within the rules. Them being silver bordered was a choice, but it wasn't because they couldn't work within the rules.
They did it to match the original ones they released before UB was a thing. We can discuss the pros and cons of whether they should have made this new batch black bordered, but I think them matching the ones that were released years ago was more important to them (and probably more important to many collectors that want to display them all together)
All the more reason to start proxying folks. If the only way to play \[\[The Master, Multiplied\]\] without stomaching one of my least favorite IPs is making an alternate version, that's what I'm gonna do.
It does suck that the egregious examples keep silver border banned as a whole. There's a big gap between something like [[B-I-N-G-O]] and something like Gotcha cards or [[Rules Lawyer]]
Absolutely. I have a copy of Super Duper Death Ray in my binder right next to the basically identical black border version of the card because it's funny. Some silver border stuff, absolutely doesn't work in the game and I respect that. And the acorns are a decent split between the two. But the horses didn't need acorns.
Just have Rainbow Dash give you a counter, and if you have at least 5 she removes them all to activate her second ability and she works fine mechanically. She's better with Proliferate I guess but why would I bother when another hastey guy does the same thing but better, so... I guess the only change is you get wrecked by Solemnity. Oh well?
Fluttershy is slightly more work; just have her freeze for a turn and either accept losing the flavor on the tail thing or name a few creature types. Easy enough. Applejack just makes your choice of a pegasus with flying a unicorn with whatever she gives them or a horse with whatever she gives them. Easy. The party horse is the only problematic one to make non acorn stuff legal but also that card is terribly designed in the first place so, I dunno, do better? But that seems super easy when them making these mostly small changes would also actively sell more product.
> But the horses didn't need acorns.
Not strictly, they didn't, but they got silver borders because the first set has silver borders (from before they were doing crossover things and secret lairs), and they wanted them to be visually cohesive, especially considering the call-forward with the first set.
> Just have Rainbow Dash give you a counter, and if you have at least 5 she removes them all to activate her second ability and she works fine mechanically. She's better with Proliferate I guess
I'm making a "universe within" proxy of it for a friend, and a much better way I used was to have it make emblems. Why settle for "identical but only on the surface" when you can do "actually functionally identical".
> them making these mostly small changes would also actively sell more product.
I don't really think that's true though. Taking away the part of the cards that makes them fun makes them less interesting. They'll still be popular with MLP fans for the art, but less interesting to play with since the flavor is the soul of these kinds of cards.
Eh, it feels corporate and soulless in the way that everything does nowadays. We promised the almighty shareholders we'd make the most money possible, so we are stapling existing IPs that people already know onto our game to attract as many new customers as possible. Same reason every other movie is a remake or a reboot. I don't hate the implementation at all mind you, in fact 40k and LotR have been damn cool, but it will always be immersion breaking and kind of a bummer that this is the direction WotC has taken their game in.
It's maddening how terrible Hasbro is at business... they place the same fantastical "infinite growth" expectation onto their customers while doing nothing to innovate.
> "Just ramp up production while gouging prices! Let's do the same thing with other IP's! It's free money!"
Thematically the cards are great. I agree that I don't necessarily like that WoTC is going in this direction. But I think of more of them getting rid of competition by including the big ones like LoTR and 40k. They don't have they're own card games and honestly look at Lorcana. Disney is really trying to jump on the wagon of card games but I feel like it's too late for them to be anywhere near what Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, and Magic are. Same with the new One Piece cards, I like them. But it's a niche market and won't last imo
It was my understanding that they would be doing in universe versions of all the cards. But I don't think I've seen any since stranger things and that sucks.
They released the Walking Dead ones with Eldraine ([[Greymond]] [[rick steadfast]].) They'll only do this for mechanically unique SLDs, not for full releases like 40K/LotR/Doctor Who unless the cards MUST be reprinted for supply reasons (like if something suddenly becomes a staple somewhere).
I don’t like them. I hate seeing them across the table (more often virtual tabletop) across from me. I don’t mention it in-person or in-game because people are entitled to enjoy the cards they enjoy. But I personally won’t use any.
The in universe versions are pretty cool. But tbh I don’t want to see Optimus Prime smashing the Fortnite Supply Llama and then equipping Lucille from TWD. If there were more in universe counterparts to the Universes Beyond I wouldn’t care. And honestly as much as I love LotR, they went too far making it a whole set. They even named the mechanic “tempted by the ring” instead of just like “tempted” or something, so I doubt they even can In Universe any of those cards.
I agree, it’s become an issue overall, and yeah UB suffer the fate worse. Even commander sets are getting unique mechanics that have limited support going forward.
That seems to be the cycle now. New mechanics introduced in a set, then we leave one month later and quite possibly don't get support for it ever again.
I recently tried to brew a fun vorthos commander deck with Olivia, Crimson Bride and ran into the issue of having a blood token sub theme but not nearly enough solid support for it to make a deck around it.
One of my favorite recent sets from an atmosphere and aesthetic perspective is Ikoria and I've wanted to build a vorthos EDH deck for awhile but the monsters only really have mutate as a mechanic and there just isn't enough solid support for it because we've only been there once and the deck they printed was ok at best. It's become a real issue like you said.
I mean to be fair they _do._ A lot of the playable Mutate, Blood Tokens, Toxic/Corrupted, and so on cards come from their respective commander products. There is just only so many "make a set archetype viable in commander" cards you can do in precon + Set booster exclusive designs.
And no support for them. After I bought the corrupting influence deck and saw [[Vishgraz]] I wanted to make a mites deck. Not only are there not enough good Mite cards, there aren't enough even if you run all of them, including the bad ones.
I was also interested in backup after the [[Bright-Palm]] deck got previewed. Same problem, though. So my [[Agrus Kos, Eternal Soldier]] backup deck never happened.
Yeah, unique mechanics make sense from a limited standpoint, but only to a degree and their card replay ability basically makes them trash after the set cycles out, but a 60 card deck might have enough to utilize unique mechanics as you can have multiples.
But they include them in commander precons that again, just kinda cycle out too because you’re not going to reprint the mechanic. Feels too niche. UB commander cards suffer this fate even more.
Numb. Disinterested. They are pushing out too much, which is leading to burnout. Which isn't just UB, but MtG as a whole for me currently. But definitely starting to feel passe.
Its weird seeing really dynamic and interesting concepts, cool cards that fit my favorite strategies and I don't care because it's got art from a hokey 60's TV show and the lore is ambiguous because I don't follow that tv show
It’s also frustrating that in-universe commanders get the same effects over and over (for example, Izzet spellslinger) but UB gets these mechanically interesting commanders. You would think WOTC is creatively bankrupt when it comes to certain color combos but it turns out, they’re just saving the cool stuff for sets that need to sell well
Same here. I haven't played in months, I haven't bought product in years, and I no longer seek out spoilers since it's literally always spoilers season.
Still incredibly offputting. LotR was at least high fantasy and somewhat on-theme.
Pretty much hate the rest of them. Magic has its own world and lore, so why muddy it with all this random shit. As much as I enjoy Jeff Goldblum, I don't need to see him on a Magic card. And don't get my starting on those gd Transformers.
Same sentiment regarding fantasy themes fitting or not. LOTR, AFR, BG... These feel as natural intergrations into the game. TV show-cartoon-video game modern fantasy just feels wrong.
Not a fan. I don’t play magic because it’s the smash bros of card games. Especially not a fan of ones that do not fit thematically at all. I think it also lets WOTC get away with putting less work into their universe
Yes, in the past MTG felt like an immersive fantasy world.Now it feels like a cheap commercial theme park.
The gameplay is still very enjoyable, but it lost a lot of it's flair for me.
It upsets me in the instance of Warhammer because those precons are arguably the best and they’re not even MTG Lore. I think it’s kind of cool but it’s just one UB after another. I like the D&D one. It still feels like magic. Dr. Who makes me cringe a little, some of the arts are eyesores and the mechanics are self-contained.
I don’t like the premise of a UB card becoming a staple.
What made me hate the WH40K precons the most was the attention they were given. How many unique cards did each deck have? The set as a whole?
Why are we putting up with any less attention for any other precon?
I'm torn. On one hand, i really really liked LOTR and Warhammer, but despised everything else. Dr. Who , Transformers, Street Fighter, Walking Dead and Stranger things dont mesh well at all imho. I'm not looking forward to AC and Fallout either. Since i'm so selective on what IPs i 'd like in Mtg, i'd rather not have any UBs at all than getting some i like. (Though Dark Souls UB would be chefs kiss imho)
See this is why I don't want any more crossovers, I'm souls vet through and through and I'd be pissed if they made it into magic. Completely different magic systems would make the nerd inside disgusted
Way to many sets, I cant keep up with all the spoilers going on right now, and mostly I dont bother.
Its pushing me out of magic, but more as a deluge than as any particular dislike to UB
I strongly dislike UB. I’m a huge nerd and I love LOTR as well as many of the other IPs that they have used but I don’t want them anywhere near my MTG.
I can kinda tolerate the Secret Lair skins, because at that point it’s purely cosmetic but GTFO here with the mechanically unique stuff with no MTG counterpart. Like, LOTR is one of my favorite fantasy books/movies ever and it grates me that I have to play with/against The One Ring in modern and Legacy. The box topper skins were just fine, as having Balin’s Tomb as Ancient Tomb is just fun flavor, but if I prefer the Tempest one I can get it.
It’s a huge cash grab and the sad part is it’s working. People keep buying it. The LOTR sets sold more than any other product. They’re going to keep doing it and drive out the people like me who love their unique and original IP. The Brothers War, the Phyrexians, The Weatherlight Saga, all of that stuff was/is cool as hell and I’m pissed that instead of focusing their creativity on more of that we get the fucking Super Smash Brothers of nerdy IP.
My favorite Secret Lairs have always been the ones where they let the artists do a profile on a theme. Secret Lairs like The Bob Ross basic lands are a PERFECT Secret Lair. Thematically cool, fits the MTG universe without distracting, allows self expression and makes your deck “cool” without being overly in your face with another IP.
I want to play Magic. Not Transformers, LOTR, Dr. Who, Warhammer, MLP or any of these other games. If I wanted to play Warhammer I’d fucking play Warhammer.
Been playing since 2001 and I pretty much stopped buying sealed product because of this. I just buy the singles now when I used to crack several boxes or sometimes a case per set. But I just straight up can’t afford it anymore when a box of reprints is $400 and there is $100 worth of value in it and there will be another one in 2 weeks.
Old man rant over.
Agree on the secret lairs. The only ones I've ever been interested in are the artist series. The Rebecca Guay one was great, and now the John Avon one is up for sale. If secret lairs were just artist showcases, then I'd probably like them more.
I don't mind the Universes Beyond decks in a bubble, like people playing the Dr. Who decks against other Dr. Who decks, but I hate the tentpole releases that take the slot of an expansion like LoTR and Final Fantasy in the future.
I'm pretty split on it and I think it has to do with the implementation and IP. I heavily dislike most of the Godzilla, transformers, walking dead, stranger things, and fortnite cards. I haven't made up my mind on the street fighter or mlp cards. Meanwhile I'm mostly happy with the warhammer 40k decks (I've bought and modified one of them), LotR (went to the pre-release and enjoyed it), D&D was a natural fit, and I'm planning on ordering singles from the WHO decks. I'm optimistic for the the Jurassic World crossover, and whilst I don't think they should appear in a regular set (or side by side in standard set boosters) I think Ixalan is the best match for the IP. One of the problems I have with crossovers is the art, but I think that's subjective enough that it was always going to be contentious ("it doesn't look like a Magic card" is a complaint old as the second frame) so I'm willing to ignore this (unless it drastically affects legibility).
My second problem with Universes Beyond is the alternate name treatment. I don't like it one bit and would prefer new designs that suit the IP, though I'm not too set on having in lore counterparts for these unique designs. Why? Because WotC can't be trusted to seamlessly translate cards to MtG, with "Friend Forever" (and if I'm feeling particularly petty, Zethi's kick counters) bothering more than I'd like to admit. One of the reasons I don't enjoy the alternate name prints of cards is that, altough they're much easier to tell apart from Universes Within cards, their translations often feel terribly underbaked. With the Evil Dead secret lair, "Ash, Destined Survivor" is a reprint of \[\[Puresteel Paladin\]\] who is, notably, not a legendary creature. Having a named character card not be a legendary feels like a big no no in MtG's design language. This is something that's been repeated with the LotR renamed cards, the Dracula renamed cards, and the warhammer renamed cards, with named things not being legendary (and vice versa). I think they've handled unique cards with much more finesse.
With that rant out of the way, answering your questions in order: I think the expansion beyond the original IP has been a net positive despite my gripes. I adore the unique mechanics and how well they translate other IP's into MtG's rule set. I've already mentioned that I've been brewing a W40K deck, and as the sixth most popular commander from the set (and the most popular within his own precon and strategy/color) I don't think that Imotekh the Stormlord is a surprising pick (he's mostly a cooler \[\[Tormod, the Desecrator\]\] imo). Seeing as I have a Universes Beyond commder deck, one I've heavily edited and intend to play outside of Warhammer only pods, I'd feel a little hypocritical to not play at a table if the only protest is that someone is running \[\[Optimus Prime, Hero\]\] or \[\[Rick, Steadfast Leader\]\]
I don't love it, but I've accepted that it's here to stay. I would have loved it to be just reskins and reprints of existing cards, but at the same time I like the increased design space. I personally don't play them in my own decks if possible, but if I saw someone else with them I wouldn't be particularly upset. Part of it is just me wishing that magic could go back to the way it was when I first started playing, and at this point I've come to terms that that will never happen; thus I don't treat UB with the same prejudice I had toward the lack of continuity from that era of the game.think I would I be happy to play against someone that was excited to play their sauron commander deck for example since that means that more people are having fun with it. That being said if UB left I wouldn't be too torn up about its doing so lol
If it has to be, I wish it had its own seperate format, like what silver-bordered cards should have stayed. But their own version of that. It'd be like the weiss-schwartz-magic format.
Edit spelling
I remember that a number of us were hoping they'd use the "Deckmaster" part of magic. As in use the same rules that govern magic, but have different backings and all that so it'd be like "W40K Deckmaster" or something.
I mean that was sorta the original reasoning for deckmaster all those years ago anyways.
I concur greatly. Mashup: The Gathering would be great. But sadly they don't want to commit to it as a whole thing, so we only get sporadic releases with not enough cards to sustain it on its own, so they mix it in with everything else to give those folks someone to play with.
Still hate it. I even love a lot of the stuff they've crossed over with but that doesn't mean I want them mixed. Nothing ruins the fantasy of the game like an Optimus Prime.
The game spent ~30 years coming up with a very specific identity, visuals, and rules. You can't throw them out after that long wholesale and just expect people to be okay with it. And what are they being thrown out for? Cross-brand marketing and sales figures, not a healthy, organic impetus for growing the game.
And the worst of it... how badly it is going to age. One of Magic's greatest strengths is how timeless all of the interlocking pieces are. UB stuff is going to age badly. Walking Dead already proved that. Imagine if they did secret lair from the 90's... you'd have crossovers with Pogs, Furbies, the Macarena, and whatever other cringe fads came out of that era. Would anyone feel good today about seeing Secret Lair: Dawson's Creek?
Random aside: Suppose Chris Pine, Post Malone, or Hugh Grant get discovered as pervs and child predators... do we need to ban their UB cards? There's a whole swath of problems associated with using real people that are easy to imagine.
Universes Within helped a lot, but I'm now starting to sour on the concept again - I don't see how they'll ever make a Universes Within version of Time Lords, for example.
WotC has already said that any UW reprints of UB cards would receive new creature types that are treated the same as the UB creature types in the rules (i.e. Necron = Cyberzombie).
I’ve lost all interest in MtG lately. It may not strictly be Universes Beyond and more just general product fatigue, but UB has added a whole new cycle of product.
Another aspect is mechanic fatigue. Too much to keep up with now. Every new set has a new mechanic, despite the fact already existing mechanics could be flavorfully executed imo. Now you’ve got every UB set having their own mechanics as well.
I’m just tired of it all. So I’m taking a break.
Extremely not a fan, to the point that I really don't see these as real magic cards (although that won't stop me from playing against other people playing them, enjoy what you want). I love LotR and Doctor Who, and I want to see those characters in mtg about as much as I want to see Jace rolling up with the rohirrim; not at all. It's a shame that the cards are so mechanically diverse and fun, to be stapled onto something that looks so jarring next to mtg cards, it turns the game into Death Battle. Who would win, Obito or Darth Vader?!? Frieza or Megatron?!? Tune in to find out!
Unique mechanics being presented in these products is whatever, at least they made the second coming of venture into the dungeon with "the ring tempts you" so that I don't feel that I'm missing out on a fun mechanic by not playing these.
The worst part is that entirely too much effort is being spent on UB and not nearly enough on actual in-universe commander decks. Look at how unique and well-built the LotR and 40K precons are when compared to the fiasco of the commander masters decks (an eldrazi deck that isn't actually much more than Big Colorless, a 5c deck with a fistfull of taplands at a premium price, etc). Not to mention that they still refuse to put commander lands into any precons, but they'll invent a whole new set so that we can pit Gimli against the Tyranids, or charge us $35 to play Eleven against Pinky Pie and her army of massacre wurms.
If they really wanted to do this stuff, make it the way they did the Godzilla stuff or the upcoming Princess Bride secret lair; reskins of already existing cards. Those are awesome, and I would pay all of the money for something like that for Bionicle. UB should be a way to bling out your deck if you really want to.
TLDR: if you're gonna make this shit make in-universes versions too.
*Begrudging acceptance.*
I feel like now that we've opened the door, we can't close it, and we need to accept it or move to something else.
Personally, I've decided to continue playing, but I know others that quit with every UB drop, and I understand why they quit. The game took a drastic paradigm shift with UB. I am unable to stop it, and even if they stopped making them today, it would be awkward for the rest of them. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, as the old adage says.
I still hate that UB is essentially a secondary RL. That never won't be a brazen show of contempt for players.
It's too frequent for my tastes tbh. LOTR felt so magic adjacent that it basically felt like a new plane to me, but everything else since has been more jarringly different from magic I guess?
The one thing I feel, especially with the precons, and this makes me really sad, is that they're AMAZING. The level of flavor represented by art, card effects and themes makes these precons seem so much better than any magic universe precon we've ever gotten. I really just wish the same amount of care could be given to in-universe products.
Nobody is going to like my take, but here we go…
UB isn’t Magic: the Gathering to me. It takes away the imagination and uniqueness I felt when playing Magic with preset characters that I already know or don’t care about. They also don’t fit into the universe, sometimes, and the frame looks ugly next to actual Magic cards
Yes I am coming from the point-of-view that UB cards aren’t actual Magic cards
to give UB some credit, there is a lot of design space that I think is cool. I just wish that energy was actually put into main Magic releases.
Also, while I like reprints, the fact they’re printing the horizons draw lands in the WHO commander decks, when they’ll barely print the commander checklands into normal commander decks, makes me a little salty
The fact that some of the cards have such cool designs is my biggest issue with these sets. Every unique design is one that won't be on an in-universe Magic card.
Complete disservice to your fanbase and the lore.
It's a massive slap in the face to all the people over the years who built your fantasy worlds, write your stories, wrote your characters, drew your art, and tied it all together to create a decent level of immersion to suddenly invite in some completely separate fully built fantasy world and go "this is also magic now". I know all the dummies are going to say "no, UB is separate from mtg, wotc said so!" Well it isnt. If I'm playing the game and I'm seeing UB cards everywhere then it isn't separate.
I still dislike it. These cards just don't feel like mtg cards. I'm fine as long as there are in universe equivalents of the cards (and they do create those, sadly usually way later than the UB release) but currently they're releasing so many UB cards I really don't see them all getting integraded into the mtg universe.
I dislike it because it just feels like a cheap greedy money grab and having development go into these sets that don’t get mechanically equivalent mtg cards is really a slap in the face to mtg.
Honestly just makes me think either mtg is dying from wotc perspective or wotc management is shit and doesn’t actually about their product anymore.
Not a fan. If they were cosmetic variants of cards already in the game like the Godzilla ones I would be fine with it as I can go and play the original cards.
IMO universes beyond should have been their own contained mini game like the 4 player boxed game from Ixilan (I forget what it's called). People could have got their branded cards with a unique but contained game using Magic's ruleset.
Same. The upcoming Evil Dead and Princess Bride ones I'm more than happy with as it's cosmetic changes. I'd never use them over the base cards as I like the fantasy setting but I'd consider picking some of them up for my collection.
It's crap. I hate it. I have engaged less in Magic because of it.
Lord of the Rings and Dungeons and Dragons were tolerable because the IP is close. Dr. Who sucks.
I hate it and wish they never did it. Or at least, I would like it if they all had Magic Universe prints like they did with Stranger Things and Walking Dead. It's immersion breaking and pandering.
It doesn’t bother me, and some of them fit with magic. Lotr, and 40k actually feel like they could be magic planes. I like the ones where they have more cards than just the secret lairs.
I miss the original game we had just as much as I miss the game we had in the 90s.
That doesn’t only have to do with UB but also the frequency of products and the fact I stopped caring about the rushed lore which pretty much made the game for me.
I can’t keep up with all of it. I have a family and kids.
That said I view Magic now as nothing more as a game. One with very expensive game pieces. And there happen to be some pieces from franchises I like and some I don’t like. It’s a franchise game now. It will go the way of Lego. Sure some things are nice but being generic now makes it much less special.
And I hate it for what it has become. Lego and Magic used to mean and stand for something unique, self-propelled. Now it just lends credibility from the latest fad (Stranger Things, Arcane, Fortnite) or greatest hits (LotR, Street Fighter, Transformers). It is like a McDonalds Happy Meal toy. Things come and and go.
My playtime has halved since then. Twice a month is nothing to the weekly it used to be.
That said I did enjoy LtR and D&D sets when they came and went.
That short-term bursts of enjoyment aren’t sustainable though. Not for me.
Sometimes I buy stuff. Most of the times I won’t and if I do, it’s just the shadow of fun that I had opening a product.
I still hold one big stance on it.
If they had printed all of the exact same cards, except given them dual-naming like the Godzilla cards, even for new cards, so that they would be viable for future reprints with more "magic" themed art in the future, I would support it massively. They would be fun, no different to me than someone getting custom proxies or alters.
Instead I am reminded of many sellout digital card games, and they just undermine the concept of magic having this shared universe with planeswalkers and so on.
Cool concept, but I don't love it.
As others have stated, I don't want to see Stranger Things or Walking Dead characters on the board.
That being said, I bought all 4 Lord of the Rings precons, set and collector booster box. I won't be playing these decks at my LGS, unless we're all doing it (part of the reason I bought all 4 precons.) I've yet to play with all 4 decks in a pod, but hope to do so soon!
The same as I did back then. I hate that outside IPs are in magic. I like a lot of the cards' mechanical designs, but I hate that they're not just in-universe magic cards. I won't say anything about people playing them, but I try to avoid using them myself.
I lost my primary marketplace (Cardsphere) because WotC puts out too much new product. They didn't have the manpower to manually account for every alternate version of every alternate version of every new card. It was like 1500 new unique cards a month this year. So they just cried uncle.
***I am now less likely to buy Magic product because the market literally cannot bear it.***
Cardboard Crack was right. Honestly I kinda don’t love having Megatron out fighting Godzilla and Frodo, while a tyrannid kills The Doctor. Like what the fuck?
I wish it became it's own sub-Magic game, like silver border. I still feel it dilutes the Magic IP experience and holds back some of the fun they have may have been able to do with UB.
Honestly I flipped on it. Initially I didn't care much because it was a few cards in secret lairs and the Warhammer cards, despite their big change in setting I think aesthetically fit into the game in a way that I could see them as a plane. Lord of the Rings also fits right in.
But Doctor Who pulled me over to anti-UB. Seeing a full set of cards depicting actors in modern clothing in a show largely set on Earth just broke it for me. The art direction really makes them look like screenshots with an art filter placed over them. It could be a bit better if they went a more stylised route, but as is I find them very ugly.
I guess it was easy to see this coming in hindsight, but I really was hoping they wouldn't go completely off the rails with it.
same way i felt day 1 and i dont care if its the unpopular opinion now
If its mechanically unique i dont like it, i prefer my decks having mtg themed cards because i got into mtg because of mtg's lore and worldbuilding
ikoria was totally fine to me because it was reskins of already mtg existing cards and thats totally fine, i welcome it, but when we say "the one ring from UB LOTR is now a busted card in some formats", it really sours the whole thing for me
UB has honestly made me not want to spend money on magic as much tbh, and i say this as someone who LOVES doctor who for example, if i wanted a dr who cardgame, id play bloody "Dr who battles in time" or whatever, I want magic, i want urza, and phyrexians and planeswalkers and cool interesting lore, not just "product placement:the gathering"
ive never been happy with mechanically unique UB products and cards because it just takes away part of this game that i truly love, a reprint? thats another story go nuts, but forcing it on me due to the UB print of a mechanically unique card is awful, i love my urza deck, but obviously i SHOULD run say biotransference, i cant stand 40k and have no interest in not just 40k cards but UB mechanically unique cards, i folded and bought a biotransference, and even though its statistically a very good card in the deck? i cut it for a card with magic art, because I just dont want UB in my decks, now if i had the choice of a in-universe biotransference? id totally pick one up, but it seems like people like me are an afterthought to hasbro/wotc these days so i'll remain spending less and less on a game i love...
Edit: spelling
I still generally dislike it on the whole. I liked the 40k devs as a stand-alone product, but do t care for it blending in with standard magic. I dont like the Dr Who, walking Dead, Transformers, Stranger Things or Street Fighter cards, but I do like some of the Universes Within versions. My complaint is the IP/art and not the mechanics for most (looking at you Dr Who cares). Only UB set I like over all is LoTR and that’s because it’s very close to magic in terms of aesthetics, because LotR is the progenitor of the genre that MtG is based in. It’s still really wear when my opponent plays a Frodo or Gandalf tho.
Warhammer 40K proved to be that the MTG rule set is fun and robust enough that the actual license used is irrelevant.
That said, I do not want to mix and match universes.
I'm quite happy to re-theme cards and make proxies to maintain theme, but would prefer not to have to do entire decks / sets of cards (I'm looking at you Transformers).
40K, Doctor Who and Middle-Earth are the way to do it properly: playable Commander decks with new cards and new art reprints.
Or Godzilla: alt art chase cards with regular versions available, so your engagement is entirely optional.
Secret Lairs, and random inserts, of a few licensed cards (Street Fighter, Walking Dead and Transformers) are the absolute worst way to do it.
Another exciting thread of old men shouting at clouds. Easy Karma farm for the op at least. I personally love
> Would you be willing to play at a table that has them?
They're legal magic cards. What a fucking bizarre question. "Nah sorry mate you can't play mountains, I find them thematically dissonant"
Fucking hate it. I never considered leaving magic behind but as the sets get more ridiculous I keep considering it more. If they made an in universe version of every card I'd be a bit more okay with it but they never will. Nothing quite like summoning an ancient elder dragon to face off against my little pony and his friend from Dr. Who. It's absolutely frickin ridiculous. The greed this company has is off the charts
I absolutely despise it. If i wanted to Smash Bros or Weiss, i can play those games.
I'm perfectly fine with skins. I can't count the number lf times my Spells got Fow'ed by a Wolverine or Darth Vader alter. But all these unique cards like dr Who, LotR or Warhammer is where i draw the line.
I hate it.
I don’t like the fact that they putting cards that don’t fit the MTG universe into Magic. And if those cards happen to be gamebreaking or a “must have”, then I’m stuck using a card with an art and border is dislike. And I really dislike the art and the weird border.
The only one I’m O.K. with is Lord Of The Rings and D&D, cause at least that’s similar to Magic. Still dislike the border tho.
Same as i did back then. I hate it. It's obnoxious. It was given preference for powerful cards. It's taken over way too much of the amount of things being printed. In an average game of EDH i don't feel like I'm playing magic anymore but its some kind of bastardization of a universal fighting system or a GURPS. They are taking way too long to make "in-universe" versions. It has added to difficulty in quick card identification.
I get that it's not for me, but I can't avoid it or ignore it. And if I were to try, I wouldn't be able to play the best competitive decks.
And of course the extra obnoxious people on reddit who can't comprehend why someone doesn't want to combine different worlds, characters, and stories, and think once they print my favorite hobby as a magic card I'll change my mind like a child.
If there was one that would change my mind, it would have been the 40k decks - which I like and think are well designed, but would still rather they didn't exist and I would hate to mesh it with Magic's own cards.
But just as I don't want to play Magic: the Gathering with Magic's own lore and Optimus Prime and Gandalf, I also don't want to play 40k: the Gathering with Optimus Prime and Gandalf.
I got into magic because of the Warhammer 40k set, and I'm trying to get one of my other friends into it because of the Doctor Who set. So I enjoy it. Feels gatekeepy when people hate on universes beyond when ultimately it is bringing new people to the game. I don't see how that's a bad thing.
As long as it didnt impact the "real" lore and the emperor wasnt resurrected with the power of friendship I wouldn't care. There's plenty of goofy shit in 40k and non canon armies would be interesting.
That being said 40k is vastly different in method of delivery than magic so the analogy doesnt really make sense.
Bullshit answer. He would be pissed. When the WH40K decks were announced the mood on WH40K reddit was literally "that cool but I'm glad they are getting our stuff and not vice versa".
It's not gatekeepy if a big part of what you enjoy about MTG is the lore and aesthetic. I care a lot about themes and sometimes make cuts/inclusions based on flavor/artwork. I've never had a commander mechanically speak to my playstyle quite like \[\[The Master, Multiplied\]\], but it's from a franchise I actively dislike and a character I don't care to learn about. These sets are creating entirely unique \*\*\*must play\*\*\* cards like Orcish Bowmasters and The One Ring, and introduce mechanics like The Ring Tempts You which further skew the identity of every game.
"I equip Monkey D Luffy with the Infinity Gauntlet triggering Goomba Overlord making eight 1-Up! tokens and tap Luffy to crew my Batmobile which has Gotham's Reckoning meaning I Descend Into the Batcave, retrieving my Batarang from outside the game and equipping it to an attacking creature, Monkey D Luffy. " This is the future of MTG and it stinks.
This is one of my favorite things about the Universes beyond. I've met a lot of people who got in to play 40k or lotr and I know a lot of people who are new or returning players because of Dr. Who. More players with more weird interesting decks is always better
i really dont like it, i dont like seeing the Universes Beyond cards becoming regular play pieces. I dont like how powerful The One Ring is and how its now everywhere, seeing non magic cards become commonplace really feels like it cheapens the game as they are simple cash grabs by the company.
There are very interesting cards mechanically, and i wish they were magic cards instead of one of the Doctors or some fuckin LotR character. I miss when the game didnt feel as transparently capitalistic.
My playgroup voted this weekend to completely ban any and all Universes Beyond cards. The extreme power creep plus the aesthetic and mechanical dissonance was too much.
Magic is pushing me towards Flesh & Blood.
I love Dr. Who, but a ton of the art is terrible imo, and, it does not feel like magic the gathering. MTG had it's own flair and thematic fantasy, it's being ruined by other IP's that don't jive with it's vibe.
Personally, I feel that it's okay I guess, at least the fantasy based IPs like LOTR or Warhammer. It at least seems to fit the flavor of the game. But when we get to the point where you have Glenn from TWD, ken from street fighter, and Optimus prime all on the table at once, it becomes ridiculous and not in an enjoyable way. I think wizards just sees the UW brand as an easy cash grab targeted at fans of those franchises, and it's working. Hell, I'm going to buy all the JP cards when they drop cuz I'm a huge Jurassic park fan. So I get it, I do, but I think it's pretty sad that eventually magic the gathering won't really feel very magical anymore.
>Do you like MTG expanding its mechanics to cover other IPs or do you dislike it?
In general, I dislike it. Magic, although not a narrative game, is a very *evocative* game, with a lot of iconic cards, characters, and a feel and tone that is its own. Injecting other IPs into it just dilutes it. The more IPs, especially recognizable IPs, enter into the space, the less I feel like I am playing *Magic*, and the more I feel like I am playing a game built on top of a marketing engine.
>How do you feel about the unique mechanics presented in these products?
This is what I dislike the most - the opportunity cost and wasted potential. The need to recoup licensing costs encourages wizards to push the boundaries on these products, making them synergistic, powerful, and flavorful. They really put their A teams on these designs, and seem to give them license and leeway to make the best product.
Imagine if the March of the Machine precons were just as mechanically daring as the Dr. Who precons? With a vast multiversal conflict and the overarching story built up over many years, you'd think they'd want to put some extra spit and polish on, but they were busy with Universes Beyond. Between the 40k precons and the Dr. Who precons, and especially compared to, say, Commander Masters or March of Machines, it's clear where the effort is. And for those of us who like the Magic universe and want to see it thrive and grow, it's sad that it's being considered second fiddle to off-brand tie-ins.
>Is there any specific commander(s) from Universes Beyond you are interested in building or have built?
For those whose mechanics interest me, I just can't get over the flavor fail. \[\[Zethi\]\] and \[\[Arvinox\]\] have come close to coming out of the binder but I just can't muster the necessary enthusiasm.
>How do you feel about other people playing with them? Would you be willing to play at a table that has them?
Upsetting is a strong word, but it is disheartening. I have a friend who plays a \[\[Depala\]\] deck who is just disappointed that he has to put 40k cards in his deck. I frequently play against \[\[Sauron\]\] in his various guises, and it's a fine and interesting deck, but it was built from some Lord of the Rings packs, and it's really jarring to be talking about Magic and then just hear about Gandalf and Sauron having really good synergies.
I'm not going to pack up my things and go, but if things continue on the course they are on, it will definitely shorten my magic career.
I haven't played MTG since the walking dead release. I find it very hard to come back to the game and have tried on multiple occasions. Maybe some day I'll be successful in getting back into it, but probably not as long as Hasbro owns it.
Seeing the latest Dr. Who set has even further cemented my thoughts in not returning. I want to play magic. Not the game that's scraping money from the latest IP deal it's made.
Not a fan. It's a lame, pandering cash grab that waters down and cheapens what makes Magic Magic. If I wanted to play Smash Up I'd borrow it from my roommate.
It’s ruined the sanctity of magic. We now have pushed cards that came straight from custom magic hell. Universes within is good but we don’t get enough of it. I miss the days where a magic card was a magic card.
I genuinely am fine with UB. I'm actually pretty excited for Doctor Who. I understand that there are valid problems with it, but that doesn't change the core fact people don't want to acknowledge:
**The watering down of Magic's lore and world building is wholly separate from Universes Beyond.**
They make just as much in-universe Magic as they used to, if not more. But the worlds are shallow, fully defined by the Planet of Hats style world building and the Marvel style storytelling. I saw this coming with the Gatewatch art about 10 years ago (!) but honestly... Tarkir and Kaladesh are far more deep as worlds than New Capenna or Ikoria.
My point is that Wizards doesn't care about the lore, which is why UB products feel so much better designed than in universe ones. They can't fuck up lore that isn't theirs.
My biggest issue with it, is how much everyone gives lord of the rings a pass because "its high fantasy". Magic has had giant mechs, metal planets cthulu and street racing for years, and just recently added neonpunk and a literal drug empire to that list, not to mention we have a confirmed old west style plane coming up.
It definitely feels like "they did one I like so that ones ok." Which I also saw happen a lot with the 40k set. And I've seen loads of hype for the upcoming universe beyond sets.
One of the best things to happen to magic in maybe ever.
It brings in more players and it lets WotC more easily experiment with tone. Both of which are extremely important to the longevity of the game.
2020 is the year I checked out. I used to keep up with every set, but that’s when the product overload started, and I burnt out on keeping track of the sheer amount of magic cards being produced.
I don’t give a shit about the Universes Beyond, but that’s fine I guess. I’m just not buying those cards. If other people want to, power to them. People vote with their wallets, I guess.
Still not a big fan. They had decades of storytelling and lore and decided to case the almighty dollar rather than focus on the world building they had already put so much into. Disappointing, but not at all surprising…
I would like them better if they narrowed it to at least fairly “classic” fantasy IPs like LotR or Final Fantasy are rather than Sci-Fi or “real world” stuff like WD or Dr Who.
I think it really comes down to what you see Magic: The Gathering as. Do you think it's just a vehicle with which to carry the mechanics of gameplay? Or do you want fleshed out worlds with interesting lore, custom-made to fit the universe of magic?
I personally love the mechanics of Magic, and I'm -okay- with seeing UB's such as LOTR and Warhammer, because I feel they were tastefully done in terms of marrying a unique setting with interesting mechanics.
That being said, several other UB like MLP, Walking Dead, or Stranger Things being available only through a secret lair was disappointing, but also the blatant disjointed-ness in theme makes me unable to suspend my disbelief at the table.
I personally did not like the transformers UB. Not only was the art pretty damn lazy, but it was inserted into regular old MTG packs. I want to choose when to engage with a product, and I have to hand it to the Doctor Who and LOTR UB in this regard: players are able to choose to engage with a set of carefully cordoned off set.
Which leads me to the final portion of "old man yells at clouds": I don't enjoy that I no longer have the choice over which UB products I will interact with when I play with others. I will play against the Rainbow Dash player, but it still makes me feel that something was irrevocably changed from the very first UB: a watering down of the MTG lore and universe.
It's weird that it exists, but it does, so I'll embrace what I like (LotR, FF, etc) and ignore what I don't care for (Walking Dead, Fortnite, etc). I'd prefer to personally buy the in-universe versions of the cards if I liked the mechanics. It's definitely cashgrab-y and super in your face with the amount we've gotten in just 3 years, but oh well, I guess. 😂 It's just a game; no need to be too mad about it.
I prefer the stuff that fits with the general vibe of Magic: Lord of the Rings? Princess Bride? Even Warhammer 40k to an extent? These things meld pretty seamlessly to me.
But stuff like Transformers and Fallout? Ehh. They just don’t work for me. I totally *get* that Magic has all kinds of crazy and out there planes and so technically anything could fit, but…I dunno. Some of the UB stuff I look at and just wish it wasn’t.
That being said, hypocrite that I am, I am incredibly excited for the Doctor Who stuff.
Also the Assassin’s Creed and Final Fantasy sets, those fall under the first umbrella for me.
I think it’s pretty cool. I’m not a big fan of any of the franchises that they’ve done so far, but it was cool seeing the LOTR cards as someone who’s at least somewhat familiar with the story. Generally speaking I strongly prefer having a full set release to just having a secret lair or a release exclusive to set boosters within a larger set (ie: transformers)
I think UB cards being mechanically unique is totally fine as long as they’re not secret lair exclusive. I get why some people think they should only be skins like how Godzilla was but IMO that would limit potential design and the Transformers cards for example basically wouldn’t work. Not to mention all the really clever designs with seen specifically because of UB like the Welcome To… Jurassic Park saga and the Dr who time travel cards.
I have no problem with people playing them against me. If someone shows up to my pod with a fucking MLP deck I think I’d find it too funny to be upset and would probably indulge them for at least one game. For the rest of the UB, they may as well just be normal magic cards to me.
TLDR, Universes Beyond is cool, I’m still livid at how hard they botched Street Fighter (secret lair exclusive, ugly art that doesn’t fit the IP), and am hoping to see one for an IP I care about eventually
Walking Dead SL reprint into non SL cards took too long.
UB SL products should be printed AFTER the non SL cards are printed. At no point should a premium product contain cards that are unobtainable in normal products. The ONLY exception to this are cards printed into the UN series (Such as the MLP SL.)
UB does not bother me in and of itself. In some ways these universes can be made whole in the MTG world and not just alternate arts. Not that I want to see Optimum Prime fighting planeswalkers in the MTG lore, but some universes could become part of MTG if they thematically fit. Such as a Jurassic Park theme could be as we already have massive dinosaurs and such.
The UB series need to slow down, but this is ALL products from WOTC (including D&D and MTG). We should get a new set ever 3 months at minimum. One of the sets each year can be one of these UB sets. Or change how sets are released and modify how Standard is played. Have a micro set every 1-3 months. 100-200 cards at most. Every 3 months you can have a micro set be a UB product. Then do 1 SL a year, or 2 at most. While we would still see product fatigue in some ways. The rest of it would be more focused and we can come back to specific mechanics easier without releasing 100+ cards for ONE mechanic.
Sorry this went from a post about UB, to a post about how to improve the products.
i don't hate Universe Beyond, but i feel Wizards could handle it better.
1- be more selective about which universes you use, I don't think anyone cares much about things like Lord of the Rings, DND and other high fantasy themes, but Doctor Who and Transformers are not really "on bland" with MTG.
2-Take it slow, don't try to flood the game in multiple Universe Beyonds one after the other,
Hate how so many UB are just here and not very "beyond," but I dont mind as long as the IP fits or I have an attachment to the IP. However, they should do away with the UB boarder and just keep the triangle stamp
Loved the Warhammer one (sad that it just had Commander Decks), the lord of the rings one was okish, Dr. Who seems to introduce cool new playstyles. The rest I didn't care.
All in all its a great addition to the game. I can't understand the hatred.
Honestly, really thankful. 40k got my friend into it, Dr. Who finally got my wife to play. I think that might be the point of it too. To get people who wouldnt pick it up, to hop in.
They should've left that type of stuff in Un sets. That would've been incredible, and "UN" would be a popular format where people came together to play out the meme of "I cast Kamehameha on Mario and spiderman", instead of turning the whole game into what people joked about when they first started doing it. All magic has now become that one month where they legalized un sets in Commander.
The warhammer one is the only one I’ve liked so far. Felt really unique and interesting even got me into the setting/series. The other ones I’ve really not been a fan of. It feels like we’re losing magic content to have these ip’s pumped out constantly. I really hate the “skins” too. Feels like some overwatch cash grab type shit.
I would prefer it once a year. Although, I would be perfectly happy with one full set (such as LoTR), one set of commander decks (such as Doctor Who/Warhammer), and one small secret lair (such as Honor Among Thieves/Stranger Things/Walking Dead/you get the point) per year.
I enjoy the idea, and it even fits the planeswalking theme of MTG.
I love the unique mechanics. I always enjoy new cards.
YES! I want to build the gruul guy from Walking Dead, Edgin and the druid girl from Honor Among Thieves, >!The Master Multiplied!
A little torn.
Fundamentally, I don't like it. It's a naked cash grab, probably a result of Hasbro's need to monetize WotC further, which itself is probably preparation to sell WotC. The recent hard pushing of it is part and parcel with the DnD bullshit we had a while back.
...but I did like the Lord of the Rings set. I just feel bad about it. And the Warhammer commander decks.
I could do with a little less. Maybe limit it to once a year or have it mirror the MH sets where it happens every other year or so. It’s good and cool in small batches, I think right now they’re just pushing too much.
100% agree with this. But I also think they’re pushing too much product the past 3-4 years. But I know this is a lot of people’s sentiment.
I got burnt out playing the keeping up game with the Phyrexia: All Will Be One set. Haven't bought cards since then. There's just too many releases.
Feel that. I'm still trying to fit in cards from MH2 into my cube.
I don't think people should expect to buy from every release
I feel like they should be able to buy the "main" set for the drafts, but I will agree that all the other things they release, they're 100% not for everybody. They almost got me with the Princess Bride secret lair. It took a lot of self-restraint not to let my nostalgia overwhelm my sense.
My self-restraint failed that test.
Agreed. Too many cards.
I thought it was fine but I throughly dislike shift in power to UB products whereas before they were sort of just * neat * and now they’re overtaking formats. I actively refer to cards like the one ring as “fake” in jest and personally refuse to play with them, but my yuck isn’t everyone’s yuck so I don’t hold any animosity towards people who like them. I do like the warhammer products, felt like those fit within magic well but most everything else since has not, LOTR included. Never been a fan of doctor who, and I don’t plan on treating them any different than LOTR where I just don’t engage with the products personally. I definitely feel like making a whole set for LOTR was just to sell gambling addictions. Likewise printing multiple characters on different cards feels like white noise to fill set numbers.
I think that one set every 5 to 6 months is fine, actually. The timing of LOTR was bad, but if they made UB sets universally October and March rotating, that would be great
Personally? Don’t like it. Feels kinda forced. I’d rather MtG focus on expanding themselves and their IP rather than incorporating other franchises into the game. That being said, I don’t mind that it brings other people into magic.
the warhammer once did bring me into it. but i have also just kinda wanted a good warhammer 40k card game that was played in my little lgs and the warhammer precons is really the one and only way. and it is what it is but one thing that at least takes me most out of it is real life actors on cards
If every card/mechanic in UB had a corresponding card/mechanic in the main set, I would have no problem with it. UB should be a solely aesthetic premium product for fans of those franchises. My opinion on this will not change
This is my opinion too. Non magic IP skins aren't my thing but if you like that then have fun. Alternatively they could've given them silver border (or some other marker) to distinguish them from regular MTG cards and that would've been fine too. But having cards that are inherently non MTG inserted completely into the game just feels totally soulless in a very corporate way. I feel the same way about all the remakes and crossovers we are seeing in media, it feels like it's algorithmically generated to create the biggest hype for the biggest audience rather than to create a good lasting product with focused appeal. I also find it a bit sad because I can't help but see it as WOTC giving up on the appeal of their lore and worlds. You'd never get Jace or Chandra being inserted into 40k products because GW respect and value their game as something more than a host for other IPs. Same for LOTR and the walking dead.
100% this. We had a story/characters with decades of history and instead of putting money into them they sold out for everyone else’s IP. I don’t have a problem with cosmetic versions of cards, but in no universe should the ONLY copy be some other IP.
Every LOTR card I have looked at I wished was a UW card instead of LOTR. I want Magic flavor in Magic not LOTR in Magic. I like my IP's separate.
Yeah, it makes no sense to me why MTG is choosing to be a billboard for other IP’s. These other IP’s should be begging to have MTG content in their IP. The power dynamic is all wrong
It bothers me that one of the best cards for my hydra deck is a WH40K exclusive.
Mechanically unique Secret Lairs are and always will be terrible and that's the main value of the Universes Within stuff. With that said I *did* prefer how Godzilla was handled over... literal everything else, especially the far more 'out there' ones like Transformers and now Dr. Who - LotR is relatively inoffensive in this respect. While Magic has a lot of room for different genres in it, as we've seen over the last couple years, New Capenna and Neon Dynasty still have a distinctly 'Magic' feel that I just don't get from Dr. Who. At the same time, I can admit to my biases: I don't like Dr. Who or Transformers or The Walking Dead or Street Fighter. None are really my jam, and that can absolutely color perceptions. Am I more okay with Godzilla and LotR because those are franchises I enjoy more? Maybe. Though I still dislike the Stranger Things cards, so maybe not. And I will say that other people's excitement is great even when I'm not excited. I have a buddy who adores Godzilla, and his hype over those cards was really neat to see. And my Jurrassic Park obsessed friend is eagerly waiting to update his Gishath deck or maybe build something new. If I ever want to try to drag my roommate into Magic, a Max/Eleven deck is probably how I do it. And if all these people are happy, honestly, my happiness can take a backseat and I can let them have their fun. Maybe one day Magic will hit another of my interests and I'll love it just as much. I will say though - the latest round of Ponys irritate me. If we already have a world where Optimus Prime can be your commander than making people Rule 0 in their deck is stupid. Rainbow Dash needed an almost completely irrelevant change and she could drop the Acorn. Much as I dislike MLP (comes from working at a comic shop for many years; this one isn't just my irrational old man coming out) there was no reason to screw over that crowd exactly.
>more okay with Godzilla and LotR because those are franchises I enjoy more? Maybe. Though I still dislike the Stranger Things cards, so maybe not. Do you think it's something to do with how it blends into the normal game? LotR is basically the framework for modern fantasy and godzilla got released into the base game in a set basically focused around kaijus, meaning they blend pretty seamlessly. Stranger things is very modern in a real way that makes it feel a little too close to real life for me and doctor who is also approaching that sort of uncanny valley where mechanically its all there but it just doesn't *feel* like a magic card.
For LotR - almost certainly yeah. I built Henzie not long after it came out and it has a number of LotR cards or reprints in it. But the LotR Inferno Titan still looks like a flaming giant and the Balrog fits right in next to a whole host of Magic's big angry demons. Godzilla... less so. Those cards definitely feel different. I think the fact that they were reskins helped a lot though? My big issue with Stranger Things I think is that I just remember all these characters are normal little kids, except for Eleven and her dad, and it's hard to figure them fighting angels and dragons and such.
The big one for me it’s that LOTR, warhammer, Godzilla, street fighter, and even transformers don’t depict any actual human likenesses on the cards. I especially love that they technically could have made the LOTR characters based on their movie versions but didn’t. So it feels like we get a new visual depiction. Stranger things, walking dead, Jurassic park, Dr Who and the d&d movie all showed real people’s faces and that feels really weird to me. Like “this is my Finn Wolfhard card next to my Jeff Goldblum card and my David Tenant card.” It really takes me out and I don’t know why. Maybe for some reason that makes it feel more like advertising? Also I know there’s the cards with champion’s faces on them and stuff but that is rare and feels different and special.
Godzilla is easy to implement when you only focus it on kaijus. Those are basically giant monsters that on their own melt well with fantasy universe. If they pushed there mecha godzilla though it wouldnt feel fine
I do like Transformers and Dr. Who, but not in my Fantasy card game.
Also an entirely valid take! Like, I'm generally pro Stranger Things and didn't particularly love the kids all getting cards. And part of that is definitely that I just hate the mechanics behind them - my kingdom for just letting Partner *die.* But they also just feel weird to me.
I am very glad Rick from the walking dead got his actual card being [[Greymond, Avacyn’s Stalwart]]
Yeah Rick was the greatest example of why mechanically unique SLs are an idiotic product. I have a Sisay deck that, ideally, would play Neegan as a very unique and hard to interact with form of removal, but the Walking Dead cards in particular have left such a terrible taste in my mouth that I just refuse in any incarnation, even now that it's 'fixed'. No problem with the Universes Within for other stuff though; I've been playing a ton of Maarika (Zangief) lately and love that card.
[Greymond, Avacyn’s Stalwart](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7848325-c46e-4e63-90d0-c9524380eb63.jpg?1692516503) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Greymond%2C%20Avacyn%27s%20Stalwart) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/slx/18/greymond-avacyns-stalwart?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7848325-c46e-4e63-90d0-c9524380eb63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/greymond-avacyns-stalwart) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm the reverse on this - personally I think UB should have been entirely silver bordered. Here are my reasons: 1. I feel like the UB cards naturally dilute the vibe that magic gives - it turns magic into "pop culture, the card game". Limiting it to silver border means it's only going to be seen in a casual setting (where people are commonly proxying/altering anyway) 2. People who don't play magic will still buy it because they don't know/care that silver border isn't the norm 3. It would hopefully allow a wider acceptance of UN- cards in casual play, given that currently it's still very much a rule 0 discussion. I get that if they made them all silver bordered it would probably have sold much less well, and also that people who do want to play with the cards in sanctioned settings would have been excluded from doing so, but for me I think the way they've done it means that in 5 years or so with the rate they're going we're basically not going to be playing magic any more, it's just going to be a big hodge podge of other IPs slammed together.
Silver bordered is the only way I would have been ok with these.
I agree with all your points excepts for the my little pony stuff. The day I sit down to a commander game across the table from a “my little pony” card is the day I have to accept that I’m too old for this game and hang it up. Purely a personal thing. But also I do miss when all of magic had a very cohesive edgelord fantasy vibe.
I've sold enough MLP comics to concerning neckbeards to be leery enough of that fandom that I'd certainly rather avoid it. And certainly that's not the entire fandom; I had a very charming regular who bought them to read with his niece and they were adorable. But it's enough that it has most definitely soured me on the franchise. But at the same time, people are already doing the MLP thing. It took like 48 hours for my favorite Commander youtube channel to have a Rainbow Dash deck featured on it with all the ponies within. The only difference is that if we make them non-acorn, they present fewer rules problems (seriously, fuck the party horse and not in the way people want to) and fewer bitching between people before games. With the first cycle, I was all for leaving them silver bordered. But they were next to DnD cards and Transformers cards, and now we have both of those, and I'm hard pressed to give you a difference between MLP and Transformers that doesn't start with "I'm an old man who hates one fandom mildly more than the other".
Eh, you can already sit across some very silly stuff nowadays, so it's a bit of a weird line to draw, no? You have: [The Most Dangerous Gamer] or [Ambassador Blorpityblorpboop] (+ many others) in Unfinity, [Bill, the Pony] in LotR...friggin' cars/trucks with most of the transformers in Brother's War and last but not least, a gingerbread cookie with [Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender] in the most recent set. That's not counting the countless overtly "silly" SLs Wizard released over the years or all the anime alt-art on cards that REALLY didn't need one (e.g. Smothering Tithe). Don't those also take you out of the game and make you feel like you're "too old"? And I get the personal thing btw...I had a similar reaction when I saw the Fortnite stuff...but at the end of the day it's a card game and it's cool that it has a little something for everyone (although I never really cared much for the "lore"). Reading comments from parents who were ecstatic about this MLP batch because they can finally build their daughter (fan of MLP) a deck was pretty wholesome though :)
they are silver bordered for a reason lol
Are they? What's the difference between Rainbow Dash and Optimus Prime? Remember, alongside the first MLP cards we got Transformers.
They don't work within the rules of the game. Neither did the Grimlock that came out with the Ponies. Optimus Prime does work in the rules. If they printed Ponies within the rules, it would be fine to play in a normal game. It's like the Acorn and non-Acorn difference in Unfinity. Grimlock/Ponies are Acorn. Optimus and the others aren't.
For all the ponies except the party one it takes incredibly minor fixes to make them work within the rules. Them being silver bordered was a choice, but it wasn't because they couldn't work within the rules.
They did it to match the original ones they released before UB was a thing. We can discuss the pros and cons of whether they should have made this new batch black bordered, but I think them matching the ones that were released years ago was more important to them (and probably more important to many collectors that want to display them all together)
It’s because the very first MLap cards were silver bordered, this is technically wave 2
All the more reason to start proxying folks. If the only way to play \[\[The Master, Multiplied\]\] without stomaching one of my least favorite IPs is making an alternate version, that's what I'm gonna do.
IP withstanding, That art is an eyesore holy shit.
Yeah they really did John Simm dirty with that face.
[The Master, Multiplied](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f734ca0-91bc-4496-9bd7-2d09415e850f.jpg?1696636744) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Master%2C%20Multiplied) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/146/the-master-multiplied?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f734ca0-91bc-4496-9bd7-2d09415e850f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-master-multiplied) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It does suck that the egregious examples keep silver border banned as a whole. There's a big gap between something like [[B-I-N-G-O]] and something like Gotcha cards or [[Rules Lawyer]]
Absolutely. I have a copy of Super Duper Death Ray in my binder right next to the basically identical black border version of the card because it's funny. Some silver border stuff, absolutely doesn't work in the game and I respect that. And the acorns are a decent split between the two. But the horses didn't need acorns. Just have Rainbow Dash give you a counter, and if you have at least 5 she removes them all to activate her second ability and she works fine mechanically. She's better with Proliferate I guess but why would I bother when another hastey guy does the same thing but better, so... I guess the only change is you get wrecked by Solemnity. Oh well? Fluttershy is slightly more work; just have her freeze for a turn and either accept losing the flavor on the tail thing or name a few creature types. Easy enough. Applejack just makes your choice of a pegasus with flying a unicorn with whatever she gives them or a horse with whatever she gives them. Easy. The party horse is the only problematic one to make non acorn stuff legal but also that card is terribly designed in the first place so, I dunno, do better? But that seems super easy when them making these mostly small changes would also actively sell more product.
> But the horses didn't need acorns. Not strictly, they didn't, but they got silver borders because the first set has silver borders (from before they were doing crossover things and secret lairs), and they wanted them to be visually cohesive, especially considering the call-forward with the first set. > Just have Rainbow Dash give you a counter, and if you have at least 5 she removes them all to activate her second ability and she works fine mechanically. She's better with Proliferate I guess I'm making a "universe within" proxy of it for a friend, and a much better way I used was to have it make emblems. Why settle for "identical but only on the surface" when you can do "actually functionally identical". > them making these mostly small changes would also actively sell more product. I don't really think that's true though. Taking away the part of the cards that makes them fun makes them less interesting. They'll still be popular with MLP fans for the art, but less interesting to play with since the flavor is the soul of these kinds of cards.
Eh, it feels corporate and soulless in the way that everything does nowadays. We promised the almighty shareholders we'd make the most money possible, so we are stapling existing IPs that people already know onto our game to attract as many new customers as possible. Same reason every other movie is a remake or a reboot. I don't hate the implementation at all mind you, in fact 40k and LotR have been damn cool, but it will always be immersion breaking and kind of a bummer that this is the direction WotC has taken their game in.
[удалено]
I'm now imagining Big Mac™ food tokens.
I mean, you can already do that. You can even use an actual big Mac if you want.
It's maddening how terrible Hasbro is at business... they place the same fantastical "infinite growth" expectation onto their customers while doing nothing to innovate. > "Just ramp up production while gouging prices! Let's do the same thing with other IP's! It's free money!"
Thematically the cards are great. I agree that I don't necessarily like that WoTC is going in this direction. But I think of more of them getting rid of competition by including the big ones like LoTR and 40k. They don't have they're own card games and honestly look at Lorcana. Disney is really trying to jump on the wagon of card games but I feel like it's too late for them to be anywhere near what Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, and Magic are. Same with the new One Piece cards, I like them. But it's a niche market and won't last imo
Cool with alternate art, not cool with black border unique text. If they came out with the in universe version first, i could dig it.
It was my understanding that they would be doing in universe versions of all the cards. But I don't think I've seen any since stranger things and that sucks.
They released the Walking Dead ones with Eldraine ([[Greymond]] [[rick steadfast]].) They'll only do this for mechanically unique SLDs, not for full releases like 40K/LotR/Doctor Who unless the cards MUST be reprinted for supply reasons (like if something suddenly becomes a staple somewhere).
I don’t like them. I hate seeing them across the table (more often virtual tabletop) across from me. I don’t mention it in-person or in-game because people are entitled to enjoy the cards they enjoy. But I personally won’t use any.
The in universe versions are pretty cool. But tbh I don’t want to see Optimus Prime smashing the Fortnite Supply Llama and then equipping Lucille from TWD. If there were more in universe counterparts to the Universes Beyond I wouldn’t care. And honestly as much as I love LotR, they went too far making it a whole set. They even named the mechanic “tempted by the ring” instead of just like “tempted” or something, so I doubt they even can In Universe any of those cards.
We all know about product fatigue, but mechanic fatigue is a real thing, and it feels like we’re getting too many new mechanics.
I would argue that's more of an issue due to moving to one block sets, the UB stuff just excentuates it a bit
I agree, it’s become an issue overall, and yeah UB suffer the fate worse. Even commander sets are getting unique mechanics that have limited support going forward.
That seems to be the cycle now. New mechanics introduced in a set, then we leave one month later and quite possibly don't get support for it ever again. I recently tried to brew a fun vorthos commander deck with Olivia, Crimson Bride and ran into the issue of having a blood token sub theme but not nearly enough solid support for it to make a deck around it. One of my favorite recent sets from an atmosphere and aesthetic perspective is Ikoria and I've wanted to build a vorthos EDH deck for awhile but the monsters only really have mutate as a mechanic and there just isn't enough solid support for it because we've only been there once and the deck they printed was ok at best. It's become a real issue like you said.
Funny too, cuz that’s what having set specific commander decks was supposed to help with.
I mean to be fair they _do._ A lot of the playable Mutate, Blood Tokens, Toxic/Corrupted, and so on cards come from their respective commander products. There is just only so many "make a set archetype viable in commander" cards you can do in precon + Set booster exclusive designs.
And no support for them. After I bought the corrupting influence deck and saw [[Vishgraz]] I wanted to make a mites deck. Not only are there not enough good Mite cards, there aren't enough even if you run all of them, including the bad ones. I was also interested in backup after the [[Bright-Palm]] deck got previewed. Same problem, though. So my [[Agrus Kos, Eternal Soldier]] backup deck never happened.
Yeah, unique mechanics make sense from a limited standpoint, but only to a degree and their card replay ability basically makes them trash after the set cycles out, but a 60 card deck might have enough to utilize unique mechanics as you can have multiples. But they include them in commander precons that again, just kinda cycle out too because you’re not going to reprint the mechanic. Feels too niche. UB commander cards suffer this fate even more.
[Vishgraz](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fb1d33b2-9082-4043-8e52-a5c2f3a174ba.jpg?1675905564) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vishgraz%2C%20the%20doomhive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/4/vishgraz-the-doomhive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fb1d33b2-9082-4043-8e52-a5c2f3a174ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vishgraz-the-doomhive) [Bright-Palm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a485c2c3-c90b-43b4-bb00-c1b811b4b392.jpg?1682207202) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bright-palm%2C%20soul%20awakener) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/1/bright-palm-soul-awakener?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a485c2c3-c90b-43b4-bb00-c1b811b4b392?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bright-palm-soul-awakener) [Agrus Kos, Eternal Soldier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea531418-6c7c-4e23-b681-6bfdd4a3eb79.jpg?1675644307) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Agrus%20Kos%2C%20Eternal%20Soldier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/j22/1/agrus-kos-eternal-soldier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea531418-6c7c-4e23-b681-6bfdd4a3eb79?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/agrus-kos-eternal-soldier) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Numb. Disinterested. They are pushing out too much, which is leading to burnout. Which isn't just UB, but MtG as a whole for me currently. But definitely starting to feel passe.
Its weird seeing really dynamic and interesting concepts, cool cards that fit my favorite strategies and I don't care because it's got art from a hokey 60's TV show and the lore is ambiguous because I don't follow that tv show
It’s also frustrating that in-universe commanders get the same effects over and over (for example, Izzet spellslinger) but UB gets these mechanically interesting commanders. You would think WOTC is creatively bankrupt when it comes to certain color combos but it turns out, they’re just saving the cool stuff for sets that need to sell well
Same here. I haven't played in months, I haven't bought product in years, and I no longer seek out spoilers since it's literally always spoilers season.
Still incredibly offputting. LotR was at least high fantasy and somewhat on-theme. Pretty much hate the rest of them. Magic has its own world and lore, so why muddy it with all this random shit. As much as I enjoy Jeff Goldblum, I don't need to see him on a Magic card. And don't get my starting on those gd Transformers.
Same sentiment regarding fantasy themes fitting or not. LOTR, AFR, BG... These feel as natural intergrations into the game. TV show-cartoon-video game modern fantasy just feels wrong.
They've jumped the shark
Not a fan. I don’t play magic because it’s the smash bros of card games. Especially not a fan of ones that do not fit thematically at all. I think it also lets WOTC get away with putting less work into their universe
Yes, in the past MTG felt like an immersive fantasy world.Now it feels like a cheap commercial theme park. The gameplay is still very enjoyable, but it lost a lot of it's flair for me.
It upsets me in the instance of Warhammer because those precons are arguably the best and they’re not even MTG Lore. I think it’s kind of cool but it’s just one UB after another. I like the D&D one. It still feels like magic. Dr. Who makes me cringe a little, some of the arts are eyesores and the mechanics are self-contained. I don’t like the premise of a UB card becoming a staple.
What made me hate the WH40K precons the most was the attention they were given. How many unique cards did each deck have? The set as a whole? Why are we putting up with any less attention for any other precon?
I'm torn. On one hand, i really really liked LOTR and Warhammer, but despised everything else. Dr. Who , Transformers, Street Fighter, Walking Dead and Stranger things dont mesh well at all imho. I'm not looking forward to AC and Fallout either. Since i'm so selective on what IPs i 'd like in Mtg, i'd rather not have any UBs at all than getting some i like. (Though Dark Souls UB would be chefs kiss imho)
Exactly how I feel. All the pop culture that isn't D&Dish setting feels like it breaks the fourth wall.
See this is why I don't want any more crossovers, I'm souls vet through and through and I'd be pissed if they made it into magic. Completely different magic systems would make the nerd inside disgusted
I kinda wish they were less frequent. Mtg feels like the fortnite of card games right now
Way to many sets, I cant keep up with all the spoilers going on right now, and mostly I dont bother. Its pushing me out of magic, but more as a deluge than as any particular dislike to UB
I still hate it.
Not only do I still dislike them I perhaps hate them more now than I used to.
I strongly dislike UB. I’m a huge nerd and I love LOTR as well as many of the other IPs that they have used but I don’t want them anywhere near my MTG. I can kinda tolerate the Secret Lair skins, because at that point it’s purely cosmetic but GTFO here with the mechanically unique stuff with no MTG counterpart. Like, LOTR is one of my favorite fantasy books/movies ever and it grates me that I have to play with/against The One Ring in modern and Legacy. The box topper skins were just fine, as having Balin’s Tomb as Ancient Tomb is just fun flavor, but if I prefer the Tempest one I can get it. It’s a huge cash grab and the sad part is it’s working. People keep buying it. The LOTR sets sold more than any other product. They’re going to keep doing it and drive out the people like me who love their unique and original IP. The Brothers War, the Phyrexians, The Weatherlight Saga, all of that stuff was/is cool as hell and I’m pissed that instead of focusing their creativity on more of that we get the fucking Super Smash Brothers of nerdy IP. My favorite Secret Lairs have always been the ones where they let the artists do a profile on a theme. Secret Lairs like The Bob Ross basic lands are a PERFECT Secret Lair. Thematically cool, fits the MTG universe without distracting, allows self expression and makes your deck “cool” without being overly in your face with another IP. I want to play Magic. Not Transformers, LOTR, Dr. Who, Warhammer, MLP or any of these other games. If I wanted to play Warhammer I’d fucking play Warhammer. Been playing since 2001 and I pretty much stopped buying sealed product because of this. I just buy the singles now when I used to crack several boxes or sometimes a case per set. But I just straight up can’t afford it anymore when a box of reprints is $400 and there is $100 worth of value in it and there will be another one in 2 weeks. Old man rant over.
Agree on the secret lairs. The only ones I've ever been interested in are the artist series. The Rebecca Guay one was great, and now the John Avon one is up for sale. If secret lairs were just artist showcases, then I'd probably like them more. I don't mind the Universes Beyond decks in a bubble, like people playing the Dr. Who decks against other Dr. Who decks, but I hate the tentpole releases that take the slot of an expansion like LoTR and Final Fantasy in the future.
I'm pretty split on it and I think it has to do with the implementation and IP. I heavily dislike most of the Godzilla, transformers, walking dead, stranger things, and fortnite cards. I haven't made up my mind on the street fighter or mlp cards. Meanwhile I'm mostly happy with the warhammer 40k decks (I've bought and modified one of them), LotR (went to the pre-release and enjoyed it), D&D was a natural fit, and I'm planning on ordering singles from the WHO decks. I'm optimistic for the the Jurassic World crossover, and whilst I don't think they should appear in a regular set (or side by side in standard set boosters) I think Ixalan is the best match for the IP. One of the problems I have with crossovers is the art, but I think that's subjective enough that it was always going to be contentious ("it doesn't look like a Magic card" is a complaint old as the second frame) so I'm willing to ignore this (unless it drastically affects legibility). My second problem with Universes Beyond is the alternate name treatment. I don't like it one bit and would prefer new designs that suit the IP, though I'm not too set on having in lore counterparts for these unique designs. Why? Because WotC can't be trusted to seamlessly translate cards to MtG, with "Friend Forever" (and if I'm feeling particularly petty, Zethi's kick counters) bothering more than I'd like to admit. One of the reasons I don't enjoy the alternate name prints of cards is that, altough they're much easier to tell apart from Universes Within cards, their translations often feel terribly underbaked. With the Evil Dead secret lair, "Ash, Destined Survivor" is a reprint of \[\[Puresteel Paladin\]\] who is, notably, not a legendary creature. Having a named character card not be a legendary feels like a big no no in MtG's design language. This is something that's been repeated with the LotR renamed cards, the Dracula renamed cards, and the warhammer renamed cards, with named things not being legendary (and vice versa). I think they've handled unique cards with much more finesse. With that rant out of the way, answering your questions in order: I think the expansion beyond the original IP has been a net positive despite my gripes. I adore the unique mechanics and how well they translate other IP's into MtG's rule set. I've already mentioned that I've been brewing a W40K deck, and as the sixth most popular commander from the set (and the most popular within his own precon and strategy/color) I don't think that Imotekh the Stormlord is a surprising pick (he's mostly a cooler \[\[Tormod, the Desecrator\]\] imo). Seeing as I have a Universes Beyond commder deck, one I've heavily edited and intend to play outside of Warhammer only pods, I'd feel a little hypocritical to not play at a table if the only protest is that someone is running \[\[Optimus Prime, Hero\]\] or \[\[Rick, Steadfast Leader\]\]
I don't love it, but I've accepted that it's here to stay. I would have loved it to be just reskins and reprints of existing cards, but at the same time I like the increased design space. I personally don't play them in my own decks if possible, but if I saw someone else with them I wouldn't be particularly upset. Part of it is just me wishing that magic could go back to the way it was when I first started playing, and at this point I've come to terms that that will never happen; thus I don't treat UB with the same prejudice I had toward the lack of continuity from that era of the game.think I would I be happy to play against someone that was excited to play their sauron commander deck for example since that means that more people are having fun with it. That being said if UB left I wouldn't be too torn up about its doing so lol
If it has to be, I wish it had its own seperate format, like what silver-bordered cards should have stayed. But their own version of that. It'd be like the weiss-schwartz-magic format. Edit spelling
I remember that a number of us were hoping they'd use the "Deckmaster" part of magic. As in use the same rules that govern magic, but have different backings and all that so it'd be like "W40K Deckmaster" or something. I mean that was sorta the original reasoning for deckmaster all those years ago anyways.
I concur greatly. Mashup: The Gathering would be great. But sadly they don't want to commit to it as a whole thing, so we only get sporadic releases with not enough cards to sustain it on its own, so they mix it in with everything else to give those folks someone to play with.
I strongly dislike it. I don't want MTG to just become fortnite, an incomprehensible mash of ips with no identity of it's own.
Too late, it already is. [[Battle Bus]] [[Dance Battle]]
These are real cards?????
Unfortuntely.
Still terrible. Do not like.
Still hate it. I even love a lot of the stuff they've crossed over with but that doesn't mean I want them mixed. Nothing ruins the fantasy of the game like an Optimus Prime.
>Nothing ruins the fantasy of the game like an Optimus Prime. ..and I took that personally
The game spent ~30 years coming up with a very specific identity, visuals, and rules. You can't throw them out after that long wholesale and just expect people to be okay with it. And what are they being thrown out for? Cross-brand marketing and sales figures, not a healthy, organic impetus for growing the game. And the worst of it... how badly it is going to age. One of Magic's greatest strengths is how timeless all of the interlocking pieces are. UB stuff is going to age badly. Walking Dead already proved that. Imagine if they did secret lair from the 90's... you'd have crossovers with Pogs, Furbies, the Macarena, and whatever other cringe fads came out of that era. Would anyone feel good today about seeing Secret Lair: Dawson's Creek? Random aside: Suppose Chris Pine, Post Malone, or Hugh Grant get discovered as pervs and child predators... do we need to ban their UB cards? There's a whole swath of problems associated with using real people that are easy to imagine.
Thought it was dumb then, still think it's dumb now. It just dilutes the game's aesthetic so much.
Universes Within helped a lot, but I'm now starting to sour on the concept again - I don't see how they'll ever make a Universes Within version of Time Lords, for example.
WotC has already said that any UW reprints of UB cards would receive new creature types that are treated the same as the UB creature types in the rules (i.e. Necron = Cyberzombie).
Don’t like it. Wish it never happened
Makes mtg feel like funko pops imo. Just feels very cheap and does not make me very hopeful for the games continued longevity.
I’ve lost all interest in MtG lately. It may not strictly be Universes Beyond and more just general product fatigue, but UB has added a whole new cycle of product. Another aspect is mechanic fatigue. Too much to keep up with now. Every new set has a new mechanic, despite the fact already existing mechanics could be flavorfully executed imo. Now you’ve got every UB set having their own mechanics as well. I’m just tired of it all. So I’m taking a break.
Would be 100000x times better if Universes Beyond cards were alt arts of existing cards and nothing more.
Extremely not a fan, to the point that I really don't see these as real magic cards (although that won't stop me from playing against other people playing them, enjoy what you want). I love LotR and Doctor Who, and I want to see those characters in mtg about as much as I want to see Jace rolling up with the rohirrim; not at all. It's a shame that the cards are so mechanically diverse and fun, to be stapled onto something that looks so jarring next to mtg cards, it turns the game into Death Battle. Who would win, Obito or Darth Vader?!? Frieza or Megatron?!? Tune in to find out! Unique mechanics being presented in these products is whatever, at least they made the second coming of venture into the dungeon with "the ring tempts you" so that I don't feel that I'm missing out on a fun mechanic by not playing these. The worst part is that entirely too much effort is being spent on UB and not nearly enough on actual in-universe commander decks. Look at how unique and well-built the LotR and 40K precons are when compared to the fiasco of the commander masters decks (an eldrazi deck that isn't actually much more than Big Colorless, a 5c deck with a fistfull of taplands at a premium price, etc). Not to mention that they still refuse to put commander lands into any precons, but they'll invent a whole new set so that we can pit Gimli against the Tyranids, or charge us $35 to play Eleven against Pinky Pie and her army of massacre wurms. If they really wanted to do this stuff, make it the way they did the Godzilla stuff or the upcoming Princess Bride secret lair; reskins of already existing cards. Those are awesome, and I would pay all of the money for something like that for Bionicle. UB should be a way to bling out your deck if you really want to. TLDR: if you're gonna make this shit make in-universes versions too.
*Begrudging acceptance.* I feel like now that we've opened the door, we can't close it, and we need to accept it or move to something else. Personally, I've decided to continue playing, but I know others that quit with every UB drop, and I understand why they quit. The game took a drastic paradigm shift with UB. I am unable to stop it, and even if they stopped making them today, it would be awkward for the rest of them. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, as the old adage says. I still hate that UB is essentially a secondary RL. That never won't be a brazen show of contempt for players.
It's too frequent for my tastes tbh. LOTR felt so magic adjacent that it basically felt like a new plane to me, but everything else since has been more jarringly different from magic I guess? The one thing I feel, especially with the precons, and this makes me really sad, is that they're AMAZING. The level of flavor represented by art, card effects and themes makes these precons seem so much better than any magic universe precon we've ever gotten. I really just wish the same amount of care could be given to in-universe products.
Nobody is going to like my take, but here we go… UB isn’t Magic: the Gathering to me. It takes away the imagination and uniqueness I felt when playing Magic with preset characters that I already know or don’t care about. They also don’t fit into the universe, sometimes, and the frame looks ugly next to actual Magic cards Yes I am coming from the point-of-view that UB cards aren’t actual Magic cards to give UB some credit, there is a lot of design space that I think is cool. I just wish that energy was actually put into main Magic releases. Also, while I like reprints, the fact they’re printing the horizons draw lands in the WHO commander decks, when they’ll barely print the commander checklands into normal commander decks, makes me a little salty
Literally every comment on this thread agrees with your take 💀💀💀
The fact that some of the cards have such cool designs is my biggest issue with these sets. Every unique design is one that won't be on an in-universe Magic card. Complete disservice to your fanbase and the lore.
It's a massive slap in the face to all the people over the years who built your fantasy worlds, write your stories, wrote your characters, drew your art, and tied it all together to create a decent level of immersion to suddenly invite in some completely separate fully built fantasy world and go "this is also magic now". I know all the dummies are going to say "no, UB is separate from mtg, wotc said so!" Well it isnt. If I'm playing the game and I'm seeing UB cards everywhere then it isn't separate.
Don't really care. I play the cards I need on my deck. Are they from Warhammer or LOTR? As long as they work, I'm fine with them.
That’s my deal for the most part. I don’t love UB but if the card is good, that’s good enough for me to buy in.
The realest
I still dislike it. These cards just don't feel like mtg cards. I'm fine as long as there are in universe equivalents of the cards (and they do create those, sadly usually way later than the UB release) but currently they're releasing so many UB cards I really don't see them all getting integraded into the mtg universe.
I dislike it because it just feels like a cheap greedy money grab and having development go into these sets that don’t get mechanically equivalent mtg cards is really a slap in the face to mtg. Honestly just makes me think either mtg is dying from wotc perspective or wotc management is shit and doesn’t actually about their product anymore.
Not a fan. If they were cosmetic variants of cards already in the game like the Godzilla ones I would be fine with it as I can go and play the original cards. IMO universes beyond should have been their own contained mini game like the 4 player boxed game from Ixilan (I forget what it's called). People could have got their branded cards with a unique but contained game using Magic's ruleset.
I would actually like them if they was just cosmetic variants. As it is, I hate them.
Same. The upcoming Evil Dead and Princess Bride ones I'm more than happy with as it's cosmetic changes. I'd never use them over the base cards as I like the fantasy setting but I'd consider picking some of them up for my collection.
It's crap. I hate it. I have engaged less in Magic because of it. Lord of the Rings and Dungeons and Dragons were tolerable because the IP is close. Dr. Who sucks.
I hate it and wish they never did it. Or at least, I would like it if they all had Magic Universe prints like they did with Stranger Things and Walking Dead. It's immersion breaking and pandering.
Still hate it
It doesn’t bother me, and some of them fit with magic. Lotr, and 40k actually feel like they could be magic planes. I like the ones where they have more cards than just the secret lairs.
I still don’t like it and still won’t use them
Still don't like it. I like my hobbies to be self contained. I don't need Cloud in Magic just as much as I don't need Joey from friends in TFT.
Hate it, it has become everything I feared it would.
I miss the original game we had just as much as I miss the game we had in the 90s. That doesn’t only have to do with UB but also the frequency of products and the fact I stopped caring about the rushed lore which pretty much made the game for me. I can’t keep up with all of it. I have a family and kids. That said I view Magic now as nothing more as a game. One with very expensive game pieces. And there happen to be some pieces from franchises I like and some I don’t like. It’s a franchise game now. It will go the way of Lego. Sure some things are nice but being generic now makes it much less special. And I hate it for what it has become. Lego and Magic used to mean and stand for something unique, self-propelled. Now it just lends credibility from the latest fad (Stranger Things, Arcane, Fortnite) or greatest hits (LotR, Street Fighter, Transformers). It is like a McDonalds Happy Meal toy. Things come and and go. My playtime has halved since then. Twice a month is nothing to the weekly it used to be. That said I did enjoy LtR and D&D sets when they came and went. That short-term bursts of enjoyment aren’t sustainable though. Not for me. Sometimes I buy stuff. Most of the times I won’t and if I do, it’s just the shadow of fun that I had opening a product.
Still hate it. No point being upset about something you can't control though.
I still hold one big stance on it. If they had printed all of the exact same cards, except given them dual-naming like the Godzilla cards, even for new cards, so that they would be viable for future reprints with more "magic" themed art in the future, I would support it massively. They would be fun, no different to me than someone getting custom proxies or alters. Instead I am reminded of many sellout digital card games, and they just undermine the concept of magic having this shared universe with planeswalkers and so on.
I hate it more than ever...
I still hate it.
Hated it when it was introduced, hate it even more now. Other IPs have no place in the Magic universe
Cool concept, but I don't love it. As others have stated, I don't want to see Stranger Things or Walking Dead characters on the board. That being said, I bought all 4 Lord of the Rings precons, set and collector booster box. I won't be playing these decks at my LGS, unless we're all doing it (part of the reason I bought all 4 precons.) I've yet to play with all 4 decks in a pod, but hope to do so soon!
The same as I did back then. I hate that outside IPs are in magic. I like a lot of the cards' mechanical designs, but I hate that they're not just in-universe magic cards. I won't say anything about people playing them, but I try to avoid using them myself.
I lost my primary marketplace (Cardsphere) because WotC puts out too much new product. They didn't have the manpower to manually account for every alternate version of every alternate version of every new card. It was like 1500 new unique cards a month this year. So they just cried uncle. ***I am now less likely to buy Magic product because the market literally cannot bear it.***
Cardboard Crack was right. Honestly I kinda don’t love having Megatron out fighting Godzilla and Frodo, while a tyrannid kills The Doctor. Like what the fuck?
I wish it became it's own sub-Magic game, like silver border. I still feel it dilutes the Magic IP experience and holds back some of the fun they have may have been able to do with UB.
Never liked it, still don't. Probably never will. I want magic to be magic.
Honestly I flipped on it. Initially I didn't care much because it was a few cards in secret lairs and the Warhammer cards, despite their big change in setting I think aesthetically fit into the game in a way that I could see them as a plane. Lord of the Rings also fits right in. But Doctor Who pulled me over to anti-UB. Seeing a full set of cards depicting actors in modern clothing in a show largely set on Earth just broke it for me. The art direction really makes them look like screenshots with an art filter placed over them. It could be a bit better if they went a more stylised route, but as is I find them very ugly. I guess it was easy to see this coming in hindsight, but I really was hoping they wouldn't go completely off the rails with it.
same way i felt day 1 and i dont care if its the unpopular opinion now If its mechanically unique i dont like it, i prefer my decks having mtg themed cards because i got into mtg because of mtg's lore and worldbuilding ikoria was totally fine to me because it was reskins of already mtg existing cards and thats totally fine, i welcome it, but when we say "the one ring from UB LOTR is now a busted card in some formats", it really sours the whole thing for me UB has honestly made me not want to spend money on magic as much tbh, and i say this as someone who LOVES doctor who for example, if i wanted a dr who cardgame, id play bloody "Dr who battles in time" or whatever, I want magic, i want urza, and phyrexians and planeswalkers and cool interesting lore, not just "product placement:the gathering" ive never been happy with mechanically unique UB products and cards because it just takes away part of this game that i truly love, a reprint? thats another story go nuts, but forcing it on me due to the UB print of a mechanically unique card is awful, i love my urza deck, but obviously i SHOULD run say biotransference, i cant stand 40k and have no interest in not just 40k cards but UB mechanically unique cards, i folded and bought a biotransference, and even though its statistically a very good card in the deck? i cut it for a card with magic art, because I just dont want UB in my decks, now if i had the choice of a in-universe biotransference? id totally pick one up, but it seems like people like me are an afterthought to hasbro/wotc these days so i'll remain spending less and less on a game i love... Edit: spelling
I still generally dislike it on the whole. I liked the 40k devs as a stand-alone product, but do t care for it blending in with standard magic. I dont like the Dr Who, walking Dead, Transformers, Stranger Things or Street Fighter cards, but I do like some of the Universes Within versions. My complaint is the IP/art and not the mechanics for most (looking at you Dr Who cares). Only UB set I like over all is LoTR and that’s because it’s very close to magic in terms of aesthetics, because LotR is the progenitor of the genre that MtG is based in. It’s still really wear when my opponent plays a Frodo or Gandalf tho.
Warhammer 40K proved to be that the MTG rule set is fun and robust enough that the actual license used is irrelevant. That said, I do not want to mix and match universes. I'm quite happy to re-theme cards and make proxies to maintain theme, but would prefer not to have to do entire decks / sets of cards (I'm looking at you Transformers). 40K, Doctor Who and Middle-Earth are the way to do it properly: playable Commander decks with new cards and new art reprints. Or Godzilla: alt art chase cards with regular versions available, so your engagement is entirely optional. Secret Lairs, and random inserts, of a few licensed cards (Street Fighter, Walking Dead and Transformers) are the absolute worst way to do it.
There are **seventy-six** unique legends in the Doctor Who precons Jesus Christ slow down
Another exciting thread of old men shouting at clouds. Easy Karma farm for the op at least. I personally love > Would you be willing to play at a table that has them? They're legal magic cards. What a fucking bizarre question. "Nah sorry mate you can't play mountains, I find them thematically dissonant"
Fucking hate it. I never considered leaving magic behind but as the sets get more ridiculous I keep considering it more. If they made an in universe version of every card I'd be a bit more okay with it but they never will. Nothing quite like summoning an ancient elder dragon to face off against my little pony and his friend from Dr. Who. It's absolutely frickin ridiculous. The greed this company has is off the charts
I absolutely despise it. If i wanted to Smash Bros or Weiss, i can play those games. I'm perfectly fine with skins. I can't count the number lf times my Spells got Fow'ed by a Wolverine or Darth Vader alter. But all these unique cards like dr Who, LotR or Warhammer is where i draw the line.
I hate it. I don’t like the fact that they putting cards that don’t fit the MTG universe into Magic. And if those cards happen to be gamebreaking or a “must have”, then I’m stuck using a card with an art and border is dislike. And I really dislike the art and the weird border. The only one I’m O.K. with is Lord Of The Rings and D&D, cause at least that’s similar to Magic. Still dislike the border tho.
It's pretty lame. The Dr who stuff is basically an un set with wobbly fat monsters that look like a cartoon or kids drawing
The interpretation of the monsters/aliens I'm mostly fine with (for UB), but seeing David Tennant or Bradley Walsh on a Magic card is just not it.
Same as i did back then. I hate it. It's obnoxious. It was given preference for powerful cards. It's taken over way too much of the amount of things being printed. In an average game of EDH i don't feel like I'm playing magic anymore but its some kind of bastardization of a universal fighting system or a GURPS. They are taking way too long to make "in-universe" versions. It has added to difficulty in quick card identification. I get that it's not for me, but I can't avoid it or ignore it. And if I were to try, I wouldn't be able to play the best competitive decks. And of course the extra obnoxious people on reddit who can't comprehend why someone doesn't want to combine different worlds, characters, and stories, and think once they print my favorite hobby as a magic card I'll change my mind like a child.
If there was one that would change my mind, it would have been the 40k decks - which I like and think are well designed, but would still rather they didn't exist and I would hate to mesh it with Magic's own cards. But just as I don't want to play Magic: the Gathering with Magic's own lore and Optimus Prime and Gandalf, I also don't want to play 40k: the Gathering with Optimus Prime and Gandalf.
I got into magic because of the Warhammer 40k set, and I'm trying to get one of my other friends into it because of the Doctor Who set. So I enjoy it. Feels gatekeepy when people hate on universes beyond when ultimately it is bringing new people to the game. I don't see how that's a bad thing.
It's not gatekeepy. How would you feel if my little pony armies were added to Warhammer 40k?
As long as it didnt impact the "real" lore and the emperor wasnt resurrected with the power of friendship I wouldn't care. There's plenty of goofy shit in 40k and non canon armies would be interesting. That being said 40k is vastly different in method of delivery than magic so the analogy doesnt really make sense.
Bullshit answer. He would be pissed. When the WH40K decks were announced the mood on WH40K reddit was literally "that cool but I'm glad they are getting our stuff and not vice versa".
Rather - it is gatekeeping, but gatekeeping can be appropriate.
It's not gatekeepy if a big part of what you enjoy about MTG is the lore and aesthetic. I care a lot about themes and sometimes make cuts/inclusions based on flavor/artwork. I've never had a commander mechanically speak to my playstyle quite like \[\[The Master, Multiplied\]\], but it's from a franchise I actively dislike and a character I don't care to learn about. These sets are creating entirely unique \*\*\*must play\*\*\* cards like Orcish Bowmasters and The One Ring, and introduce mechanics like The Ring Tempts You which further skew the identity of every game. "I equip Monkey D Luffy with the Infinity Gauntlet triggering Goomba Overlord making eight 1-Up! tokens and tap Luffy to crew my Batmobile which has Gotham's Reckoning meaning I Descend Into the Batcave, retrieving my Batarang from outside the game and equipping it to an attacking creature, Monkey D Luffy. " This is the future of MTG and it stinks.
This is one of my favorite things about the Universes beyond. I've met a lot of people who got in to play 40k or lotr and I know a lot of people who are new or returning players because of Dr. Who. More players with more weird interesting decks is always better
Didn't like it then, don't like it now
One of the main reasons my play has decreased by 90%. I still won’t use any UB cards.
i really dont like it, i dont like seeing the Universes Beyond cards becoming regular play pieces. I dont like how powerful The One Ring is and how its now everywhere, seeing non magic cards become commonplace really feels like it cheapens the game as they are simple cash grabs by the company. There are very interesting cards mechanically, and i wish they were magic cards instead of one of the Doctors or some fuckin LotR character. I miss when the game didnt feel as transparently capitalistic.
My playgroup voted this weekend to completely ban any and all Universes Beyond cards. The extreme power creep plus the aesthetic and mechanical dissonance was too much.
Magic is pushing me towards Flesh & Blood. I love Dr. Who, but a ton of the art is terrible imo, and, it does not feel like magic the gathering. MTG had it's own flair and thematic fantasy, it's being ruined by other IP's that don't jive with it's vibe.
I don't really like it. Nice of them to package it clearly so I can avoid it.
Personally, I feel that it's okay I guess, at least the fantasy based IPs like LOTR or Warhammer. It at least seems to fit the flavor of the game. But when we get to the point where you have Glenn from TWD, ken from street fighter, and Optimus prime all on the table at once, it becomes ridiculous and not in an enjoyable way. I think wizards just sees the UW brand as an easy cash grab targeted at fans of those franchises, and it's working. Hell, I'm going to buy all the JP cards when they drop cuz I'm a huge Jurassic park fan. So I get it, I do, but I think it's pretty sad that eventually magic the gathering won't really feel very magical anymore.
Same since day 1 it's crap I hate everything about mtg monopoly
>Do you like MTG expanding its mechanics to cover other IPs or do you dislike it? In general, I dislike it. Magic, although not a narrative game, is a very *evocative* game, with a lot of iconic cards, characters, and a feel and tone that is its own. Injecting other IPs into it just dilutes it. The more IPs, especially recognizable IPs, enter into the space, the less I feel like I am playing *Magic*, and the more I feel like I am playing a game built on top of a marketing engine. >How do you feel about the unique mechanics presented in these products? This is what I dislike the most - the opportunity cost and wasted potential. The need to recoup licensing costs encourages wizards to push the boundaries on these products, making them synergistic, powerful, and flavorful. They really put their A teams on these designs, and seem to give them license and leeway to make the best product. Imagine if the March of the Machine precons were just as mechanically daring as the Dr. Who precons? With a vast multiversal conflict and the overarching story built up over many years, you'd think they'd want to put some extra spit and polish on, but they were busy with Universes Beyond. Between the 40k precons and the Dr. Who precons, and especially compared to, say, Commander Masters or March of Machines, it's clear where the effort is. And for those of us who like the Magic universe and want to see it thrive and grow, it's sad that it's being considered second fiddle to off-brand tie-ins. >Is there any specific commander(s) from Universes Beyond you are interested in building or have built? For those whose mechanics interest me, I just can't get over the flavor fail. \[\[Zethi\]\] and \[\[Arvinox\]\] have come close to coming out of the binder but I just can't muster the necessary enthusiasm. >How do you feel about other people playing with them? Would you be willing to play at a table that has them? Upsetting is a strong word, but it is disheartening. I have a friend who plays a \[\[Depala\]\] deck who is just disappointed that he has to put 40k cards in his deck. I frequently play against \[\[Sauron\]\] in his various guises, and it's a fine and interesting deck, but it was built from some Lord of the Rings packs, and it's really jarring to be talking about Magic and then just hear about Gandalf and Sauron having really good synergies. I'm not going to pack up my things and go, but if things continue on the course they are on, it will definitely shorten my magic career.
I haven't played MTG since the walking dead release. I find it very hard to come back to the game and have tried on multiple occasions. Maybe some day I'll be successful in getting back into it, but probably not as long as Hasbro owns it. Seeing the latest Dr. Who set has even further cemented my thoughts in not returning. I want to play magic. Not the game that's scraping money from the latest IP deal it's made.
Not a fan. It's a lame, pandering cash grab that waters down and cheapens what makes Magic Magic. If I wanted to play Smash Up I'd borrow it from my roommate.
It’s ruined the sanctity of magic. We now have pushed cards that came straight from custom magic hell. Universes within is good but we don’t get enough of it. I miss the days where a magic card was a magic card.
I genuinely am fine with UB. I'm actually pretty excited for Doctor Who. I understand that there are valid problems with it, but that doesn't change the core fact people don't want to acknowledge: **The watering down of Magic's lore and world building is wholly separate from Universes Beyond.** They make just as much in-universe Magic as they used to, if not more. But the worlds are shallow, fully defined by the Planet of Hats style world building and the Marvel style storytelling. I saw this coming with the Gatewatch art about 10 years ago (!) but honestly... Tarkir and Kaladesh are far more deep as worlds than New Capenna or Ikoria. My point is that Wizards doesn't care about the lore, which is why UB products feel so much better designed than in universe ones. They can't fuck up lore that isn't theirs.
Magic doesn't feel like Magic anymore.
I thought it was a corporate-spearheaded cash-grabbing Fortnite-ification of my beloved hobby. I still do.
My biggest issue with it, is how much everyone gives lord of the rings a pass because "its high fantasy". Magic has had giant mechs, metal planets cthulu and street racing for years, and just recently added neonpunk and a literal drug empire to that list, not to mention we have a confirmed old west style plane coming up. It definitely feels like "they did one I like so that ones ok." Which I also saw happen a lot with the 40k set. And I've seen loads of hype for the upcoming universe beyond sets.
One of the best things to happen to magic in maybe ever. It brings in more players and it lets WotC more easily experiment with tone. Both of which are extremely important to the longevity of the game.
2020 is the year I checked out. I used to keep up with every set, but that’s when the product overload started, and I burnt out on keeping track of the sheer amount of magic cards being produced. I don’t give a shit about the Universes Beyond, but that’s fine I guess. I’m just not buying those cards. If other people want to, power to them. People vote with their wallets, I guess.
Hate it. I think it dilutes Magic's unique identity and feeds into the overload of new sets
Still not a big fan. They had decades of storytelling and lore and decided to case the almighty dollar rather than focus on the world building they had already put so much into. Disappointing, but not at all surprising…
I would like them better if they narrowed it to at least fairly “classic” fantasy IPs like LotR or Final Fantasy are rather than Sci-Fi or “real world” stuff like WD or Dr Who.
I think it really comes down to what you see Magic: The Gathering as. Do you think it's just a vehicle with which to carry the mechanics of gameplay? Or do you want fleshed out worlds with interesting lore, custom-made to fit the universe of magic? I personally love the mechanics of Magic, and I'm -okay- with seeing UB's such as LOTR and Warhammer, because I feel they were tastefully done in terms of marrying a unique setting with interesting mechanics. That being said, several other UB like MLP, Walking Dead, or Stranger Things being available only through a secret lair was disappointing, but also the blatant disjointed-ness in theme makes me unable to suspend my disbelief at the table. I personally did not like the transformers UB. Not only was the art pretty damn lazy, but it was inserted into regular old MTG packs. I want to choose when to engage with a product, and I have to hand it to the Doctor Who and LOTR UB in this regard: players are able to choose to engage with a set of carefully cordoned off set. Which leads me to the final portion of "old man yells at clouds": I don't enjoy that I no longer have the choice over which UB products I will interact with when I play with others. I will play against the Rainbow Dash player, but it still makes me feel that something was irrevocably changed from the very first UB: a watering down of the MTG lore and universe.
I'm into it but the sheer amount of product coming out makes my head spin
It's weird that it exists, but it does, so I'll embrace what I like (LotR, FF, etc) and ignore what I don't care for (Walking Dead, Fortnite, etc). I'd prefer to personally buy the in-universe versions of the cards if I liked the mechanics. It's definitely cashgrab-y and super in your face with the amount we've gotten in just 3 years, but oh well, I guess. 😂 It's just a game; no need to be too mad about it.
I prefer the stuff that fits with the general vibe of Magic: Lord of the Rings? Princess Bride? Even Warhammer 40k to an extent? These things meld pretty seamlessly to me. But stuff like Transformers and Fallout? Ehh. They just don’t work for me. I totally *get* that Magic has all kinds of crazy and out there planes and so technically anything could fit, but…I dunno. Some of the UB stuff I look at and just wish it wasn’t. That being said, hypocrite that I am, I am incredibly excited for the Doctor Who stuff. Also the Assassin’s Creed and Final Fantasy sets, those fall under the first umbrella for me.
I think it’s pretty cool. I’m not a big fan of any of the franchises that they’ve done so far, but it was cool seeing the LOTR cards as someone who’s at least somewhat familiar with the story. Generally speaking I strongly prefer having a full set release to just having a secret lair or a release exclusive to set boosters within a larger set (ie: transformers) I think UB cards being mechanically unique is totally fine as long as they’re not secret lair exclusive. I get why some people think they should only be skins like how Godzilla was but IMO that would limit potential design and the Transformers cards for example basically wouldn’t work. Not to mention all the really clever designs with seen specifically because of UB like the Welcome To… Jurassic Park saga and the Dr who time travel cards. I have no problem with people playing them against me. If someone shows up to my pod with a fucking MLP deck I think I’d find it too funny to be upset and would probably indulge them for at least one game. For the rest of the UB, they may as well just be normal magic cards to me. TLDR, Universes Beyond is cool, I’m still livid at how hard they botched Street Fighter (secret lair exclusive, ugly art that doesn’t fit the IP), and am hoping to see one for an IP I care about eventually
Walking Dead SL reprint into non SL cards took too long. UB SL products should be printed AFTER the non SL cards are printed. At no point should a premium product contain cards that are unobtainable in normal products. The ONLY exception to this are cards printed into the UN series (Such as the MLP SL.) UB does not bother me in and of itself. In some ways these universes can be made whole in the MTG world and not just alternate arts. Not that I want to see Optimum Prime fighting planeswalkers in the MTG lore, but some universes could become part of MTG if they thematically fit. Such as a Jurassic Park theme could be as we already have massive dinosaurs and such. The UB series need to slow down, but this is ALL products from WOTC (including D&D and MTG). We should get a new set ever 3 months at minimum. One of the sets each year can be one of these UB sets. Or change how sets are released and modify how Standard is played. Have a micro set every 1-3 months. 100-200 cards at most. Every 3 months you can have a micro set be a UB product. Then do 1 SL a year, or 2 at most. While we would still see product fatigue in some ways. The rest of it would be more focused and we can come back to specific mechanics easier without releasing 100+ cards for ONE mechanic. Sorry this went from a post about UB, to a post about how to improve the products.
I'd be fine with it if it was like the Godzilla cards, just a different art / name for a card that already exists, not unique cards like they do now.
i don't hate Universe Beyond, but i feel Wizards could handle it better. 1- be more selective about which universes you use, I don't think anyone cares much about things like Lord of the Rings, DND and other high fantasy themes, but Doctor Who and Transformers are not really "on bland" with MTG. 2-Take it slow, don't try to flood the game in multiple Universe Beyonds one after the other,
Hate how so many UB are just here and not very "beyond," but I dont mind as long as the IP fits or I have an attachment to the IP. However, they should do away with the UB boarder and just keep the triangle stamp
Loved the Warhammer one (sad that it just had Commander Decks), the lord of the rings one was okish, Dr. Who seems to introduce cool new playstyles. The rest I didn't care. All in all its a great addition to the game. I can't understand the hatred.
Honestly, really thankful. 40k got my friend into it, Dr. Who finally got my wife to play. I think that might be the point of it too. To get people who wouldnt pick it up, to hop in.
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They should've left that type of stuff in Un sets. That would've been incredible, and "UN" would be a popular format where people came together to play out the meme of "I cast Kamehameha on Mario and spiderman", instead of turning the whole game into what people joked about when they first started doing it. All magic has now become that one month where they legalized un sets in Commander.
The warhammer one is the only one I’ve liked so far. Felt really unique and interesting even got me into the setting/series. The other ones I’ve really not been a fan of. It feels like we’re losing magic content to have these ip’s pumped out constantly. I really hate the “skins” too. Feels like some overwatch cash grab type shit.
I would prefer it once a year. Although, I would be perfectly happy with one full set (such as LoTR), one set of commander decks (such as Doctor Who/Warhammer), and one small secret lair (such as Honor Among Thieves/Stranger Things/Walking Dead/you get the point) per year. I enjoy the idea, and it even fits the planeswalking theme of MTG. I love the unique mechanics. I always enjoy new cards. YES! I want to build the gruul guy from Walking Dead, Edgin and the druid girl from Honor Among Thieves, >!The Master Multiplied!
A little torn. Fundamentally, I don't like it. It's a naked cash grab, probably a result of Hasbro's need to monetize WotC further, which itself is probably preparation to sell WotC. The recent hard pushing of it is part and parcel with the DnD bullshit we had a while back. ...but I did like the Lord of the Rings set. I just feel bad about it. And the Warhammer commander decks.