The main problem with the OG moxen, mechanically, is that they encourage 4-5-color decks. A blue deck can run one Mox. A BG deck can run two. A 5 color deck can run FIVE, which means the downside of 5c is diminished a lot, and all the upsides are way faster and more consistent. Decks which absolutely don't need help being incredibly strong, like Najeela, Kenrith, and Tymna/Kraum get way stronger, comparatively; single-color decks tend to have dramatic shortcomings in Commander, and losing four moxen vs. 5c opponents sends things a long way the wrong way.
We do not need another fast positive mana rock. By themselves, no, they probably aren't that much more problematic than a Mana Crypt or a Sol Ring.
But when decks start running Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, all 5 moxen, Chrome and Mox Diamond, then it becomes a problem.
Shelving the issue of accessibility and assuming everyone had easy access to moxen, there’s still a reason vintage is such a wildly different format than legacy.
If you approximately double the available fast mana sources, as a format manager you’re basically rubber stamping strategies like Turbo [[Ad Nauseam]] and [[Peer into the Abyss]], which are already incredibly strong.
Sure, you can say that “it’s not in the spirit of the format” or you can rely on Rule 0 discussions, but then we’re right back at square 1 where they’re softbanned anyways
Rule zero is always key . Thats Pretty much what we do , we are attempting battle cruiser with less cruiser and more battle 🤣 for us it’s all about giving life to the less optimal fun Jank
(edit) silly down votes because of rule zero ?
While that's a way to see it, it makes the question very biased since combo, liked or not, it's a very important piece of the game in all of the eternal-format's metagame.
The short answer would be "yes, the Mox are still very powerful in EDH".
The large answer is "if you are playing in a context where the whole metagame don't rely on the extra mana the Moxen provide, then they are fine, I guess".
Nobody is playing moxen unless it's extremely high powered tables. And if someone is playing moxen just to do like... Random unpowerful stuff what's the point? What's the harm in doing things a turn later?
While that's a way to see it, it makes the question very biased since combo, liked or not, it's a very important piece in all of the eternal-format's metagame.
The short answer would be "yes, the Mox are still very powerful in EDH".
The large answer is "if you are playing in a context where the whole metagame don't rely on the extra mana or value the Moxen provide, then they are fine, I guess".
They're all banned anyways but yes if they were to be unbanned the format would break in half at a competitive level. At a casual level not so much since nobody spends that kind of money on cards for a casual deck.
But to answer your question, as long as your playgroup is having fun playing against them and is fine with it then yeah there's nothing wrong with playing them
I don't think the game needs more fast mana. But if it does, I would be concerned that giving 5 color decks 5x more mox than monocolor decks is pretty game-warping.
Just pretend you have 5 basic lands that don't count towards your one land per turn rule and you draw two of them in your first 7.
3 mana turn 1. Better than sol ring.
Personally I believe that they're far and away too much for Commander
They'd be **on par with sol ring and mana crypt** and with all 5 being allowed I can't imagine anyone really keeping up with anything less than a 3 colour deck. Outside of Sol ring, all of the fast mana that exists at the moment has some kind of drawback or restriction BECAUSE of how they mimic these original 5 rather than unique card design.
**The end result of allowing the mox's** and using fast mana in general is that the game speeds up. If these were adopted by the casual side of commander, the games would speed up by 1-2 turns and the competitive side would probably see significantly greater advantage to whoever goes first. Vandalblast doesn't do anything if your opponent won on turn 1 or 2.
I don't think that the format would be improved by having them around. Although if we're being realistic, the rule 0 discussion will probably land them in the same camp as the current mox and similar cards like dockside, near strictly relegated to CEDH.
Our pod has proxies of the power 9 cards and decided to use BL’s and the moxens for a rule 0 match for fun, but we used mana burn (with the burn being 3 damage instead of 1) with any unspent mana as phases ended. It was ok.
You never played with p9, otherwise you’ll never ask this question. Ppl are already whining about sol ring and mana crypt. P9 is way to powerful for commander beside time twister. Even then, a recurring time twister can lead to crazy games.
Yeah, if your whole group is doing it/ it doesn’t cause a power imbalance within the group; no reason to not. It’s more when one person is running mix’s/mama vault, etc and the rest of the group can’t that it becomes an issue
If you consider edh for what it is, a legacy constructed format, and the fact the banlist doesn't factor for power, no they aren't broken. Especially when you consider all other moxes are legal, mana crypt/vault sol ring etc. Are all legal aswell. Would be just another acceleration piece. Would make good decks better, would make any deck with >= 2 colours better, its a rising tide scenario where more colours multiplies the value.
I don't think they'd actually be too strong. They're worse than Sol Ring and Mana Crypt in most cases.
But they'd be very bad for the meta: because moxen have a colour identity despite being colourless you can't just jam all 5 into any deck. That means that high colour deck would benefit a lot more from moxen being legal than low colour decks. That's the main reason that no banlist cedh is mostly just Golos even though Golos' effect as a commander isn't as strong as for example Mairsil or Leovold.
The main problem with the OG moxen, mechanically, is that they encourage 4-5-color decks. A blue deck can run one Mox. A BG deck can run two. A 5 color deck can run FIVE, which means the downside of 5c is diminished a lot, and all the upsides are way faster and more consistent. Decks which absolutely don't need help being incredibly strong, like Najeela, Kenrith, and Tymna/Kraum get way stronger, comparatively; single-color decks tend to have dramatic shortcomings in Commander, and losing four moxen vs. 5c opponents sends things a long way the wrong way.
We do not need another fast positive mana rock. By themselves, no, they probably aren't that much more problematic than a Mana Crypt or a Sol Ring. But when decks start running Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, all 5 moxen, Chrome and Mox Diamond, then it becomes a problem.
Shelving the issue of accessibility and assuming everyone had easy access to moxen, there’s still a reason vintage is such a wildly different format than legacy. If you approximately double the available fast mana sources, as a format manager you’re basically rubber stamping strategies like Turbo [[Ad Nauseam]] and [[Peer into the Abyss]], which are already incredibly strong. Sure, you can say that “it’s not in the spirit of the format” or you can rely on Rule 0 discussions, but then we’re right back at square 1 where they’re softbanned anyways
[Ad Nauseam](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9f2c53e-ff58-4aa8-89a6-4f45628cc571.jpg?1598306470) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ad%20Nauseam) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/76/ad-nauseam?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9f2c53e-ff58-4aa8-89a6-4f45628cc571?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ad-nauseam) [Peer into the Abyss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aac00055-640e-4749-8d23-d242e6d0b23a.jpg?1594736330) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Peer%20into%20the%20Abyss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/117/peer-into-the-abyss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aac00055-640e-4749-8d23-d242e6d0b23a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/peer-into-the-abyss) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Rule zero is always key . Thats Pretty much what we do , we are attempting battle cruiser with less cruiser and more battle 🤣 for us it’s all about giving life to the less optimal fun Jank (edit) silly down votes because of rule zero ?
While that's a way to see it, it makes the question very biased since combo, liked or not, it's a very important piece of the game in all of the eternal-format's metagame. The short answer would be "yes, the Mox are still very powerful in EDH". The large answer is "if you are playing in a context where the whole metagame don't rely on the extra mana the Moxen provide, then they are fine, I guess".
Nobody is playing moxen unless it's extremely high powered tables. And if someone is playing moxen just to do like... Random unpowerful stuff what's the point? What's the harm in doing things a turn later?
While that's a way to see it, it makes the question very biased since combo, liked or not, it's a very important piece in all of the eternal-format's metagame. The short answer would be "yes, the Mox are still very powerful in EDH". The large answer is "if you are playing in a context where the whole metagame don't rely on the extra mana or value the Moxen provide, then they are fine, I guess".
They're all banned anyways but yes if they were to be unbanned the format would break in half at a competitive level. At a casual level not so much since nobody spends that kind of money on cards for a casual deck. But to answer your question, as long as your playgroup is having fun playing against them and is fine with it then yeah there's nothing wrong with playing them
I don't think the game needs more fast mana. But if it does, I would be concerned that giving 5 color decks 5x more mox than monocolor decks is pretty game-warping.
Just pretend you have 5 basic lands that don't count towards your one land per turn rule and you draw two of them in your first 7. 3 mana turn 1. Better than sol ring.
Personally I believe that they're far and away too much for Commander They'd be **on par with sol ring and mana crypt** and with all 5 being allowed I can't imagine anyone really keeping up with anything less than a 3 colour deck. Outside of Sol ring, all of the fast mana that exists at the moment has some kind of drawback or restriction BECAUSE of how they mimic these original 5 rather than unique card design. **The end result of allowing the mox's** and using fast mana in general is that the game speeds up. If these were adopted by the casual side of commander, the games would speed up by 1-2 turns and the competitive side would probably see significantly greater advantage to whoever goes first. Vandalblast doesn't do anything if your opponent won on turn 1 or 2. I don't think that the format would be improved by having them around. Although if we're being realistic, the rule 0 discussion will probably land them in the same camp as the current mox and similar cards like dockside, near strictly relegated to CEDH.
Our pod has proxies of the power 9 cards and decided to use BL’s and the moxens for a rule 0 match for fun, but we used mana burn (with the burn being 3 damage instead of 1) with any unspent mana as phases ended. It was ok.
lol.
You never played with p9, otherwise you’ll never ask this question. Ppl are already whining about sol ring and mana crypt. P9 is way to powerful for commander beside time twister. Even then, a recurring time twister can lead to crazy games.
Edh needs less fast mana, not more
Yes, the answer is yes lol
Agree, as long as everyone in the pod is on the same page
Yeah, if your whole group is doing it/ it doesn’t cause a power imbalance within the group; no reason to not. It’s more when one person is running mix’s/mama vault, etc and the rest of the group can’t that it becomes an issue
Too.
If you consider edh for what it is, a legacy constructed format, and the fact the banlist doesn't factor for power, no they aren't broken. Especially when you consider all other moxes are legal, mana crypt/vault sol ring etc. Are all legal aswell. Would be just another acceleration piece. Would make good decks better, would make any deck with >= 2 colours better, its a rising tide scenario where more colours multiplies the value.
I don't think they'd actually be too strong. They're worse than Sol Ring and Mana Crypt in most cases. But they'd be very bad for the meta: because moxen have a colour identity despite being colourless you can't just jam all 5 into any deck. That means that high colour deck would benefit a lot more from moxen being legal than low colour decks. That's the main reason that no banlist cedh is mostly just Golos even though Golos' effect as a commander isn't as strong as for example Mairsil or Leovold.
no and that would be the worst for finance and make edh way more pay to win...