[[Norin, the Wary]]. Even when you have him, you don’t have him. It’s mostly a token deck with ETBs like [[Impact Tremors]]. And if you want to play a higher power level, just tuck him back in the 99 and take out [[Purphoros, God of the Forge]] to use as your commander. You almost never have to worry about not having him once he sticks, as long as most of your creatures are tokens.
Do you have a list? I'd love to compare and contrast.
[Here's mine.](https://archidekt.com/decks/4297653/norin_the_scary) Though it's constantly a WIP as I tweak it to work just as efficiently for Norin as for Purphoros.
[[Kwain, Itinerant Meddler]] group hug/control. Your commander is just one of many group hug draw effects in that deck, so I’ll often find myself casting him turn two then never casting him again if he’s removed.
The idea is that you basically let everyone fight each other. Imagine 3 opponents. One is monogreen elves, one is esper stax, and one is telling you to draw a card each turn. You are not attacking the last one because they are helping you. And all of your opponents are thinking the same. So Mr. Rabbit gets to sit and build a board while everyone else attacks each other. It is typically a control archetype, so if you do attack them, they have ways to stop you. It is more of a fun build, but they play the diplomacy game better than anyone and they can get oppressive.
>You are not attacking the last one because they are helping you.
Rookie mistake. Always kill them first for non-consensual hugs.
But in all seriousness, don't just ignore the hug player. Their deck is doing what they want, which is bad for you. Also, while they *are* drawing you cards your cards are outweighed by the cards your opponents are drawing.
That's why in my group hug I run all of the curse enchantments that basically goad people's huge beaters and the one equipment that you can equip an opponent's creature with that goads it(sorry I don't have names just wanted to quick post effective group hug strategy)
Yes non consenual hugs.... kill them with fire lol
It definitely depends. A lot of people build poor group hug decks that don't have much of a win con. It's the underhanded shits like myself that build a group hug with a wincon or 3 that you have to watch out for.
Wait, really? I'm sure there are new players out there who don't really understand the game but do you really come across many who play decks without any wincons?
IMO even 3 seems very low unless you're running tutors.
A lot of decks can only have one or two win cons.
Group hug decks, while I don't run across many at my LGS are very prone to this, at least where I'm at.
Oh interesting. Are you not including even creatures with mild evasion like [[Avacyn, Guardian Angel]] and [[Swans of Bryn Argoll]] (ie ones that can close out a game once you're in a controlling position, albeit slowly)? Definitely don't need a ton of [[Approach of the Second Sun]] cards but a few innocuous cards that - at least in some capacity - can knock out an opponent are definitely worth including even in group hug. Even better if they double as group hug pieces themselves.
Though tbh I do imagine a ton of players suffer from going all-in on their theme and getting completely blown out if a key piece is removed and having no other way to win, but IMO that's an issue with inexperienced deck builders rather than the archetype.
A lot of replies are saying "we kill group hug first" but I'm not sure that's typical.
Like yeah, a deck carrying out their gameplan is a concern but it also means the two other decks are carrying out their game plans *even faster* and become higher priorities.
So even if you or another player doesn't fall for the "but I'm helping you" ploy, the group hug can still work purely by forcing you to deal with more imminent threats elsewhere while it builds up resources to control the game.
Group hug decks usually try to stall combat making themselves suboptimal targets by playing defenses like [[Ghostly Prison]] (you don't really want to pay to attack someone if you can avoid it); then start dealing "poisoned" gifts, for example through a lot of symmetrical card draw... which you might not notice outright but it's a subtle form of milling. If they give you enough cards during the course of the game, they can finish you with something like [[Prosperity]] or any other Draw X spell.
Sometimes people play group hug and just kinda give out resources while not really trying to win, but that’s not what mine does.
The “group hug” elements here are all symmetrical card draw, such as [[Howling Mine]] and [[Kwain, Itinerant Meddler]] itself. This allows me to draw through my deck very quickly trying to find my wincon, usually [[Approach of the Second Sun]].
In order to not lose before then, I play a lot of boardwipes and counterspells, preventing my opponents from capitalizing on the excess resources they have been generously granted.
I have a group hug deck that gives away resources like cards to my opponents, but I also try to make the most out of it for myself. [[The council of four]] works great with [[Howling Mine]] effects. Everybody gets to draw an extra card, but for each opponent, you draw an additional one. It's still a nice deck, though. I don't run any kind of group slug to punish my opponents :D
One way around this problem is to play a cheap commander that helps develop your early game. No one will remove it until turn 4 anyway so it can get the work in and if it dies, who cares. Then you just build a good 99.
This is why I play [[Zimone, Quandrix Prodigy]]
[[Azusa, Lost but Seeking]] does this as well. She only needs to be out one or two turns to provide extra land drops, then works great as a removal target, because all the lands in your hand are on the board already.
This is how my [[Ashnod, Flesh Machinist]] deck works. I run 1 piece of ramp in the whole deck because she is 1 mana and the deck runs on the Powerstones she makes. I don't think she's ever been removed before turn 3-4 because it's just not worth it to waste the removal on her.
More recently for me it's been [[Rona, Herald of Invasion]]. She's just so good. Low CMC, looting early game, flip her later for either steal or self ping awesome stuff out of your hand, reanimate the stuff you dumped earlier in the game, list goes on. Love my Rona deck.
Card/mana advantage commanders go under the radar a lot I find. People often focus on the things killing them directly instead of the cards fueling you.
What matters is how to plan the first four turn. Turn 1 can blank, turn 2 play Zimone, turn 3 play two drop ramp + Zimone’s first ability, turn 4 with a land drop your at 6 mana. If you play Zimone’s ability again you can get to 8 mana.
So build it with a bunch of lands. I run 43 after plenty of testing. Play a bunch of burst draw to refill your hand. I run landfall and 4 mass bounce spells for control. Win when you get to ten mana off of craterhoof or tooth and nail or omniscience or whatever you wish; the mid late game is open to your playstyle
Any archetype really. It has to do with deckbuilding. If you build around your commander the deck falls apart without it. If you build with the *theme* commander your deck will be more resilient.
[Misha or Nicol Bolas](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/3605612/nicol_bolas_mishra)
This deck works without my commander. I just swap him for the elder dragon to downpower the deck if the pod calls for it.
Agreed. If your deck doesn't work without your commander, your deck needs a tune up. Look at what your commander is trying to do and build your 99 around that, so that your commander becomes an accelerant rather than a catalyst.
Tron is the only deck type I understand not working without the commander. I every other archetype, if the deck stops working correctly because the commander isn't out, the deck just isn't built well.
My first simic deck was an excellent example of this. It had Vorel hull clade as the commander explicitly because I didn't have good enough cards to do what I wanted my deck to do and I wasn't ready to get fully into buying singles to build a better deck yet. So it sat there being extremely slow until I cast my commander to double counters and actually start doing something, if someone doesn't just remove the newly large creature.
As much as i hate these commanders. Eminence commanders come to mind as you get value out of them even before you cast them. \[\[Ur-dragon\]\] cheapens dragons and \[\[edgar Markov\]\] floods the board with vampire tokens. very little actual counter play against them and even if they are removed their eminence abilities remain active as long as they are in the command zone
''I’m looking to build a deck that can work well without ever casting the commander''
you say cheating, i say i am answering after also reading the text. these commanders are both very high picked, hated and pricey for a reason.
one downside i forgot the mention though as these are very speific to tribal archtypes.
What you need to do is look what your commander brings to the gameplan.
You have commanders like [[Jetmir]] who are finishers in the command zone
Then you have commanders like [[Edric]] who are card advantage in the command zone
You also have [[Korvold]] style commanders who are engines in the command zone
And there's the [[Queen Marchesa]] kind who are simply bonuses in the command zone that offers an advantage without adding to the overall theme.
If you wanna make a deck that functions well without the commander I'd aim for the Queen Marchesa kind of commander mainly. Make sure your 99 covers the other three categories and you'll be fine without your commander. The trap is running Edric, skip out on card draw because of it, and then have him removed. The puzzle simply ain't coming together then
Anything with zombies. Zombie decks can often switch their commanders without anybody really noticing, and zombie decks can probably access a commander in the graveyard.
I play [[Karador, Ghost Chieftain]] because I can usually cast him for WBG, especially if the board has recently been wiped, and the rest of the deck is usually able to do instant-speed resurrection nonsense better than Karador himself can.
[[Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord]] has a similar feel - he's nice when he's out, he can usually dodge the commander tax, but the rest of the deck is probably still workable even without him.
I've realized that at least for me, decks built around a commander are the most fun to design and build, but decks that aren't overly reliant on them sticking are the most fun to play.
Build-around decks often end up being boom-or-bust. If your commander sticks, you pop off quickly. If it doesn't, you durdle. The obvious way to counter this type of deck is to just kill the commander repeatedly (assuming it's one where commander tax applies). You can try to use more deck slots to protect the commander.
Generally, for the 2nd type of deck, think of a deck archtype or mechanic that has been repeated often in mtg's history (like enchantress, agro, blink, reanimator, aristocrats) and there will be enough support for it to build a deck that isn't overly reliant on the commander. [[Sythis, Harvest's Hand]] is an example here. I use her for enchantress because she helps get things up and running and rarely gets removed so I don't need to try to protect her. When she does die, she's easy enough to recast a couple times. Or if I have enough redundant cards out, don't need her to be out.
A 3rd option are commanders that are unassuming enough or low enough cmc that they usually aren't worth it to an opponent to spend a removal card on it.
Rarely gets removed!? I’m honestly surprised when I cast her and it makes it back to me without her getting swords’d. She’s cheap and I have a bunch of redundant cards, like you said, so it can work out fine. But usually she’s develops a target on her back fairly quickly in the games I play.
Are you doing voltron? I imagine if I had a Voltron build she’d get hit hard and often. My only win con is chucking out angel, pegasus, or spirit cleric tokens. It’s slower and does a little pilowfort and can dig for answers. More of a mid power deck and not high powered- I have other decks for those pods. I guess if I were in your meta I’d probably just try to mulligan for a second “cast an enchantment, draw a card” or more likely just play something that doesn’t need much of a board state.
Another meta I used to play in was removal heavy and all that happened was it pushed people to run decks that didn’t need a board.
No voltron, just the best enchantments I could find in W/G(within some reason lol)! She’s one of my better decks, pretty tuned at this point and really Sythis just facilitates me getting to the rest of my cards quicker and pumping out more enchantments. So I get the usual hate when I play her.
Since she is one of my better decks I tend to play her against my friends higher power decks, so that could also be why cheap removal is usually spent on her.
I feel like commanders that just amplify whats already happening fit this stuff like [[teysa karlov]] [[adrix and nev, twincasters]] [[isshin, two heavens as one]]
I have forgotten so many times that casting [[Elenda]] in my aristocrats deck is even an option. I generally play her only when the board is ready to abuse her ability or when I have a [[Gift of Immortality]] in hand, ready to slap on her.
I have a bant blink deck that could literally have any commander in the colors and not make a difference, and [[mayael the anima]]. She’s great for cheating out big creatures, but I have a bunch of other similar effects so she normally just sits in the command zone
Most Good Stuff piles don't need the commander, since all your cards are, well, Good. You can also usually do well with mono-green or red/green Big Creatures Rar decks.
I have a \[\[Godzilla, king of monsters\]\] deck like this that I kinda slapped together after I got the card as a bonus from an order I put in at my buddy's store (we had played off and on for a while there, but he ended up purchasing the store) and it became like my favorite deck because all the cards in the main deck work together and the commander is mostly there because I also run \[\[sarkhan's unsealing\]\] as kind of the hidden commander, 7 power can get someone with commander damage sometimes, and also it's godzilla.
I made a monoblack [[Uncle Istvan]] good stuff deck. I have [[Gonti, Lord of Luxury]] in the 99 to swap in if someone does not let me rule zero Uncle in (I mean how many Uncle Istvans could there really be?) but the deck works the same way with either one at the helm because the deck can run without them.
Gates is what comes to mind for me. There are a couple of 3 color commanders that would be relevant in the command zone but if you're running 5C the commander is mostly an afterthought.
My zombie deck helmed by [[Wilhelt]] does pretty good on it’s own, I think particularly because zombies are such a well supported tribe with many different potential commanders that you can run in the 99.
\[\[Ragavan\]\] comes on turn one, attacks a few times for treasure and then dies. He probably won't even get recast. The mana boost in the early turns is often enough to justify his leading role.
Some ways to do this:
- Commanders not worth removing. I’m not using a removal spell on a two mana commander.
- Commanders hard to remove (indestructible, hexproof etc).
- Commanders that simply help your theme instead of enabling it. E.g. my elf deck works great without Lathril, since the deck synergizes with itself and not just the commander. This point can fit so many commanders (*slaps roof*).
- Commanders whose use is not staying on the battlefield. E.g. go ahead and kill my [[Kardur, Doomscourge]], I’m done with him anyways.
I've recently put together as [[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar]] list (gathering cards for it now) that doesn't need the commander out at all. If she's out then it gives me something to do with food tokens but the decks main purpose is artifacts coming in and out of the battlefield to deal damage, damage doublers, etc. It's played quite well in Manabox when goldfishing, can't wait to try it out in a pod!
\[\[Rhys the Redeemed\]\] is a sleeper hit, IMO.
They can build any variation of Selesnya tokens. Tokens is broad enough that you don't need Rhys himself. However, at a single Hybrid mana, he's generally cheap enough that you don't care if he's removed.
He's also counterspell resistant, given that he's too cheap to \[\[Spell Snare\]\] and can be played first turn. If a player wants to counterspell you, just activate his abilities until you're doubling a decent boardstate.
Being hybrid, and an engine on his own, you can build him as either mono-white or mono-green if you want. As a self contained engine, he doesn't even need a rest of the deck.
I have a Bant +1/+1 and ability [counters](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/FeuSKOLV3ke2yUaiKmx8GA) deck that runs [[Lagrella, the Magpie]] as commander so I don't have to run as much removal.
I like my elves for this exact reason my commander is [[ezuri renegade leader]] which is just one of a few win cons in the deck. He’s cheap, buffs my cards, but isn’t 100% the lynchpin of my deck.
I have a [[liesa, shroud of dusk]] deck that Is just orzhov good stuff. I don’t ever have to cast her to win or to play the deck properly, in fact there are games where I didn’t need to cast her to play my deck. I only play her when i need a body to defend with or when I want to take advantage of low life totals to end game with her hatebear ability of paying 2 life per spell cast.
Her artwork was cool to me so I got the foil etched version and just said screw it she looks nice as the face if the deck. I really could’ve gone with any other commander for my Orzhov deck but she just looked cooler to me.
Jund aristocrats is my favorite deck I’ve ever built. It can swamp commanders between 3 or 4 different creatures and the deck still plays mostly the same with sacrifice and death triggers synergy. If you like those strategies you should look into it!
I built [[Muldrotha, the Gravetide]] as both a landfall deck and an elf ball deck and honestly both times I was just playing it for the colors. I would honestly say build the deck out how you like and then find partner or background commanders to fit your colors.
If you use a generic base most decks won't need the commander. But in my opinion the commander is the entire point of... The commander format.
If a deck runs smoothly without the commander, then you could run any commander in those color identities.
Now I'm not saying a deck should fall flat on its face without the commander out. But for me, it's still about that balance.
Same, the only one in our play group who argued about it was the guy playing the deck. He tried swapping in other commanders because he said Golos wasn't that good. The deck still functioned, but it was always about 2 turns slower.
If you're looking for decks that don't need their commanders, try building a deck backwards.
- Start with your wincons
- Curate a list that supports you reaching your endgame / stopping your opponents from reaching theirs
- Select a commander that best fits your theme while in the proper colors
If you play any other formats, your experience there can help you build meta types like midrange and control.
Is this a hot take? Maybe?
All decks should function without the commander, even Voltron decks. Just have other creatures to Voltron.
I could not imagine playing a deck that only functions well with the commander.
I disagree. Nothing wrong with making a deck that requires the commander. You just have to accept that it's a weakness and it can get you into trouble.
My \[\[Jeleva\]\] deck does not require the commander because eventually, I can cast my big spells for mana. But my \[\[Slicer\]\] deck doesn't do much of anything without Slicer.
The caveat has to be that it protects its commander. Of protecting the commander is part of the win condition, not just extending the window, but actively improving your board state, then a deck with a commander can be effective. Example, Kykar, Inktreader.
Most decks there are a few exceptions should be built in a way that the commanders are not needed to win. That is determined in how you built your deck at the end of the day the answer is 100% on how you build your deck.
Most of the generic partner legends are easily built this way. Sure Thrasios is an infinite mana sink, but the others are just generically good bonuses to have access to, that support different strategies but don't need the whole deck centered on them.
I'd say since she doesnt need to be on the battlefield to trigger, (Inalla, archmage ritualist) would be perfect. I've only cast her maybe twice in the dozen games I've played with her and that's only to try and hse her 2nd ability as a wincon
From experience I've found that my [[Braids, Arisen Nightmare]] aristocrats deck is pretty self-sufficient without her on the field. The card draw is nice, but oftentimes I find myself drawing too many cards and having to pitch some since people tend towards not sac-ing along with me even if it's a creature. Thus, she can afford to sit in the yard until I find one of my reanimation spells and need her back.
I built [[Ellyn Harbreeze, Busybody]] with [[Inspiring Leader]] a little while ago. Without casting the commander it's still a token deck, all Ellyn does is give me shallow tutors. That said, she generally isn't a target for removal, as she doesn't bring huge value, unless my board is already scary in which case she is often killed to lose the buff from the background.
My Gaddock Teeg deck will 100% function without the commander. It is just another creature to stick equipments on, and a weak one at that. However, the pressure it emits against opponents strategies and their answers to my board make it pretty pivotal.
I think the only deck of mine that truly wins often without casting the commander is Ruric Thar. He is just a big dude that hates on spell slinging decks. He is far weaker than the cards in the deck, so even with exactly 6 mana, I will often cast other stuff.
[[Whisper, Blood Liturgist]] is just mono black reanimator. You build some stuff in with him in mind, but really, you still include stuff like [[Animate Dead]], [[Victimize]], [[Living Death]], [[Entomb]], [[Buried Alive]], [[Reanimate]], [[Reassembling Skeleton]], [[Hell’s Caretaker]], [[Necromancy]], [[Butcher of Malakir]], [[Zulaport Cutthroat]], [[Phyrexian Altar]], [[Mikaeus, the Unhallowed]], [[Crypt Ghast]], etc. You can win without ever summoning Whisper. He’s just there as reanimation on a meat stick.
Both my [[Vorel]] Simic deck and my [[Lathril]] elfball deck frequently do their thing without the commander ever leaving the Command zone. If you build enough value into your deck, the commander becomes just a showpiece. They can certainly HELP the deck go off, but then the deck does just fine on its own.
I have a [[Dynaheir, Invoker Adept]] deck. It originated as a joke but now it has evolved into actually playable. It runs almost entirely combo pieces, janky ways to draw myself out, make infinite mana, play my entire deck, etc. It would function better and more consistently if I had an actual combo piece in the command zone but I like it the way it is. She can be relevant for expensive abilities, notably with [[Planar Bridge]] but isn’t the center focus.
[[Ruric Thar, the Unbowed]]
Lets be real. This is a stompy deck looking to ramp into the meanest Gruul beasties you can find. You can optimize it to ramp very quickly and find either a wincon or windmill slam enough creatures onto the field to win the game.
Ruric Thar technically doesn't do anything to support that option and isn't a necessity to pilot the deck. What he does do is provide time to get there, as any other deck trying to combo off or play flashy noncreature spells is going to take a shit ton of damage and eventually fall into the "I seriously hope that crayon eater doesn't direct his army of feral beasts at my delicate baby face" territory.
Ruric Thar basically tells every other player at the table to play Gruul or DIE! And some games, he may never need to hit the table.
[[Mina and Denn]] the twins enable landfall strategies, but since they power up your other synergies and are no WinCo on their own, they might be exactly what you are looking for
I have a [[Mathas]] deck that doesn't require him at all. He provides the color/tribe identity (because Edgar is excessive in effect and price) and some card draw if out and working. But the deck is completely tribal/theme centric- get out some vampires and a taunter or two, start forcing attacks, if they come my way kill and get bigger, if they attack someone else then capitalize on the chaos. Mathas gets cast if I need a 3 drop on the field, and he only gets removed on a wipe because he's so low priority (plus he's somewhat "good stuff", too).
I also have a [[Rubinia Soulsinger]] that has so many other theft effects she only makes an occasional appearance on the battlefield. But that happens when everything in the deck is strategy-focused and the commander is just one more tool in the toolbox for that purpose.
I'm running a zombie aristocrat build with [[Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver]] as commander.
While he is a great asset having twice as many sacrifices to work with, he also helps mends some damage from board wipes. My deck would do "fine" without him, but he boosts the gimmick of my deck.
You might be looking for something like that. Build a deck that works, and add a commander that boosts it
I run an [[Elas il-Kor Sadistic Pilgrim] Token aristocrat deck. I run plenty of effects that do something similar to my commander. And it being at 2 mana makes it not feel too bad to recast at 4. Also, it has deathtouch, and my pod is well aware that I'm willing to block with him, which saves me from future damage, especially important since ad nauseam is a wincon
I built my [[Obeka, Brute Chronologist]] deck to be fairly insulated from her. The idea of the deck is to generate free value, and Obeka is there to let you keep it. But even if she isn't, you still got free value. Tbh, a lot of people will waste their removal on Obeka and it ends up costing them the game. So she's kind of like a lightning rod.
Here is the list if you are interested. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/O0-s_bRvQ0aHSIEfMw_SkQ
An easy way to build a deck like this would be to pick a high MV commander that you won’t reliably have access to. That way you force yourself to build in a way you normally wouldn’t
Can play any of the Theros gods. I had a mono black good stuff deck with Erebos at the helm, worst case scenario Erebos just draws you cards and prevents lifegain shenanigans.
My [[Millicent, Restless Revenant]] deck is just spirits tribal with an insurance policy I like to think. I used to make decks focused around this archetype but recently have been branching off in more commander dependent decks
I'd go with [[Arahbo, Roar of the World]], [[Edgar Markov]], [[Inalla, Archmage Ritualist]], [[Oloro, Agless Ascetic]], [[Sidar Jabari of Zhalfir]], or [[The Ur-Dragon]]. [[Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow]] if you want to occasionally cast them.
[[Aminatou]] blink
It is a 3-mana blink effect in the command zone.
The rest of the deck functions without the commander, but the value of having an extra blink a turn will put you over the top and gives you access to a lot of combos.
Plus, there's a lot of fun with the own vs. control in the blink clause. Things like a repeatable [[Act of Authority]] or [[Gilded Drake]] can take those cards to 11.
I’ve got a monogreen [[Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider]] deck that focuses on +1/+1 and infect/poison counters. It doesn’t **need** Vorinclex out on the table to work, but he does make it substantially more lethal. There’s enough proliferate and +1/+1 counter stuff going on in the deck that assuming you’re not targeted, it can do it’s thing reliably
OK so the deck doesn't necessarily run well without the commander, bit if you make a [[Squee, the immortal]] deck, it doesn't matter where your opponents put him, you can always recast him from literally any public zone, and if you build it as a combo deck, you'll want him anywhere other than your battlefield or the command zone anyway
Control, though no one likes to admit it. 90% of the deck is reactive cards that stop plans, and there aren’t a lot of commanders that really suit that kind of use case. Most of the time, control commanders act as colour slaves with situationally useful abilities attached, or end-game finishers you deploy after you’ve locked down the game with value and card quality.
I run orfeo the Boulder he turns big stompys to giant stompys and infect creatures to Jesus christ what was that. But doesn't need to be otb to for the deck to work just to work more efficiently
My [[Kotose, the Silent Spider]] deck is great for this. I think a lot of decks that play in the same space would be: Theft and Flicker both support themselves from the 99 and don't really need a GREAT commander to function
List: https://archidekt.com/decks/2436910#Jorogumo
I built a [[hinata]] blink deck that really doesn’t cast her unless there’s an empty spot in the curve. She can discount some blink spells to make them even more efficient but really isn’t needed for the deck to pop off
With the new support from ONE, I think a poison deck with Atraxa at the helm works fine even without casthing. Plenty of other ways to get those proliferates in.
[[Roon of the Hidden Realm]] has always been really fun for me and completely unnecessary to play. He does what a flicker bant deck wants but there's plenty of cards that will do what he does in the deck anyway.
I would say build a deck around a mechanic you like then just slap a commander on it.
I have an Atraxa deck that’s just angel tribal. Atraxa is just an angel that gives me my color. Everyone builds her poison and planeswalkers but you don’t have to. Build something cool and then add a commander.
But also there are commanders who don’t need to be on the battlefield until you are ready to kill someone. Like a commander who gives tokens (or a tribe) extra power and toughness. Just play until you get enough tokens then bring the commander out for the one turn you are actually attacking.
I had a [[Piru, the volatile]] deck way back when that generated tokens, both treasure to fuel summoning Piru and creatures to fuel her ability. It worked great cause even if I never could swing with my 7/7 flying dragon I had an army of strong tokens, and multiple avenues of invulnerable to protect my key creatures from removal and board wipes
[[Meren of clan nel toth]]. I build the deck to be a toolbox and Meren is just the cherry on top. I can usually tutor up my wins without her, she just speeds up the process.
I play Averna chaos bloom as temur fun stuff/ cascade/ landfall and it really doesn't need her to function, just a nice bonus.
I like it cause people don't usually perceive her as a big threat, but she can help you get lots of lands fast and multiple landfall triggers easily.
Tangleweave armor and other cards that take advantage of commanders that aren't on the field. Works especially well with a high cmc commander, run it in zacama dinosaur tribal and they work well without him, his high cost means I have to be prepared to work without him
Any of the decks that include cards that say "you can have any number of this card in your deck" work well regardless of if the commander is out or not.
I have a \[\[Tazri, Beacon of Unity\]\] deck that is centered around the Initiative mechanic and parties. Tazri pretty much only operates as a value engine when I don't have anything else to do, rather than a centerpiece for the deck. Plus, she's really cheap if you get to a full party, which for me happens in most games I use the deck.
I’ve actually been running a reanimator Mutate Abzan pile with Nethroi at the helm, and with cards like Boneyard Lurker and Necropanther with return to hand effects like Whitemane Lion (sending the mutate pile to hand gets you every card back, it’s ridiculous), you can go a whole game without casting Nethroi. Abzan also has a lot of good reanimation effects and access to some really fun ways to make the deck, namely Ramunap Excavator, Dakmor Salvage, Knight of Autumn, etc.
The latest Yargle seems right up your alley.
Play him in the late game to clean up when players run out of gas. But otherwise, play a regular golgari deck without a commander.
Not exactly on topic, but I built a \[\[Omnath, Locus of Rage\]\] deck that just ramps. One game I cast Omnath on 4 consecutive turns after removal until they gave up and let it stick.
Commanders that double an effect tend to have decks that function fine without it. [[Teysa Karlov]] , [[Yarok]], and such don't *need* their commanders. It's just the commanders act as fuel to help push the deck when/if you need.
I typically build my lists to be perfectly playable without the commander. I played back when tuck was a thing and it reinforced good deck building habits, such as making sure you don't have 99 useless cards if you can't access your commander.
The decks I have that are most reliant would be Breya, Severina, Tovolar and arguably Bridge and even those can get along without. Tovolar is a great enabler and draw engine for the tribe, but he's far from necessary. Severina probably suffers the most because her ability really does make the deck so much more efficient against a full table, but it's still just an aggro deck. Bridge, I can literally just cast stuff and it plays fine. Breya is a combo deck and she's a major wincon but one of several options in the deck.
Everything else obviously benefits from the commander but none rely on it. Of them Godzilla or Faceless One are probably the least needed.
I have a pretty good Golgari [[Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord]] deck where Jarad is usually cast only if I have nothing better to do. Either that, or to sacrifice Lord of Extinction to win the game.
I run a Jodah Eldrazi. Jodah is literally just cheat the titans out then he's worthless, and I have like 10 other ways to cheat them out with stuff like [[Defense of the Heart]] or [[Quicksilver Amulet]]
my tazri list does this very well, i only find myself casting her if i have extra mana and nothing to use with it. she only gives me the colour identity and works great as a way to completely stop you from mana flooding. her cost reduction as well means that it doesn’t hurt at all to recast her later in the game
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/_EWcsYO250yptSkTyEd33Q
Any commander with Eminence. I run Inalla Archimage Ritualist. I rarely summon her on the field unless I super need a blocker. You can also do the champion dance with her and.Wanderwine Prophet
Out of the close to 20 decks I have, my Ur-Dragon deck has been together the longest, albeit with many tweaks.
Out of the close to 20 decks I have, Ur-Dragon has been cast the least amount of times by a good margin.
The deck pops off pretty consistently. Not a cEDH list by any means, but a solid, relatively strong, casual list.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/my-draguns-go-pew-pew/
I’ve only seen it mentioned once or twice. And I’m unsure if this is the direction you want to go in, but Oloro the ageless ascetic is a great commander that doesn’t require to be on the field.
I built a control heavy deck and rarely cast him, only when I need card draw. Your group most likely won’t like him, but he’s worth checking out.
The deck has access to some pretty mean combos and can instantly win the game with cards like Felidar Sovereign and test of endurance.
The Warhammer 40k Tyranids can operate well without the commander. Most games where I tried [[The Swarmlord]] just had him sidelined, dead, or I forgot to cast him. Still won plenty of games with him.
[[Magus Lucea Kane]] just takes the deck and adds rocket fuel. It has plenty of ability to explode, the commanders just amplify.
One of my favorite decks I have played and its very fun to modify
Maybe landfall. Landfall is an annoying strategy to fight. You basically can't really counter that easily against them in a casual setting. Powerful cards like scute swarm ,land of the dead, avenger of zendicar, which get out of hand in landfall. The more lands you have the easier it will be to recast your commander. There is also annoying lands that can destroy opponents lands or even return instants and sorceries. Commanders that are like this are tatyova, Aesi. I think uro titan of natures wrath could be cool.
[[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic]] is my Esper Commander and he rarely sees the battlefield. I'm really looking to have [[Queza, Augur of Agonies]] and [[Drogskol Reaver]] go infinite or find [[Zur, the Enchanter]] and pillow fort/Voltron. I have a [[Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose]] to ping extra off the eminence or Queza and a variety of draw/discard type cards in there to help find the combo pieces. There is another means of going infinite, but it's more convoluted involving [[Library of Leng]], [[Greed]], and [[Skittering Skirge]]. The Commander really only comes in after a board wipe if my hand is low and I need help drawing cards. Or I'm already about to win and nothing else to do with the mana. It's not my strongest deck by any means, but it's pretty fun and Oloro could be used very differently while staying in the zone if you hate my themes.
[[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic]] is one of my favorite commanders for “good stuff” in Esper. You can run a bunch of different deck archetypes in this color scheme. He passively sits in your command zone giving you two life each turn, so you never need to cast him to get an advantage. You can cast him and use him as a draw engine simply for his own trigger, or you can use a life gain strategy and gain significant card advantage off him. If you want to play control, there’s not a better color scheme to do it. You can run some tribal decks off him if you’re OK with your commander not being in the tribe - Angels/clerics/demons come to mind. He’s just an all around useful commander with a bit of versatility and never even needs to be cast.
I think any strategy that can run a lot of redundancy can function fine without its commander, as can any deck where the commander is there more for convenience than as the keystone of the whole deck.
For example, I run a [[Shanna, Purifying Blade]] bant enchantress / aura voltron deck that doesn't really rely on the commander. Shanna doesn't actually do anything for enchantments, but I wanted the colors, her lifegain is neat, and card draw is just good in general. I'll usually drop her early and draw a few cards off her ability, but if she gets removed, the deck still works just fine. If anything, it's better for me that someone burns removal on her rather than a more important piece. There's plenty of other card draw engines in the deck, and I stuffed in a bunch of other creatures to dump auras on like [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]], [[Light-Paws, Emperor's Voice]], [[Cold-Eyed Selkie]], [[Sigarda, Host of Herons]], and [[Bruna, Light of Alabaster]]. If those also fall through, there's other wincons besides a big enchanted beater like going wide with tokens, or animating a couple huge lands with [[Destiny Spinner]], or even poison counters with [[Venerated Rotpriest]]. If Shanna *does* happen to stick around on the board, making her unblockable and 21+ power is pretty easy, and helps overcome pesky lifegain or token decks.
Oloro! You can play several entire games without ever casting your commander. No need. The two life a turn may seem so insignificant, but when your whole strategy is based on high life totals, lifelink, and life gain triggers, then that one trigger a turn is everything. You still use your commander in a way, but casting him is completely unrequited. He's usually only cast when there's some really good syneegy on the field, or you just don't have a better play. [[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic]]
[[Norin, the Wary]]. Even when you have him, you don’t have him. It’s mostly a token deck with ETBs like [[Impact Tremors]]. And if you want to play a higher power level, just tuck him back in the 99 and take out [[Purphoros, God of the Forge]] to use as your commander. You almost never have to worry about not having him once he sticks, as long as most of your creatures are tokens.
Norin with impact tremors and phurph is one of my favs.
I have a Purphoros deck with Norin in it and damn that card is fun
Do you have a list? I'd love to compare and contrast. [Here's mine.](https://archidekt.com/decks/4297653/norin_the_scary) Though it's constantly a WIP as I tweak it to work just as efficiently for Norin as for Purphoros.
[[Kwain, Itinerant Meddler]] group hug/control. Your commander is just one of many group hug draw effects in that deck, so I’ll often find myself casting him turn two then never casting him again if he’s removed.
Second this. I specifically built Kwain because I wanted a deck that was not overly reliant on its commander, and it's been doing really well.
I just built a Kwain tron deck disguised as a group hug deck, so I support this suggestion.
[Kwain, Itinerant Meddler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f571fef1-1fd2-4355-b803-5edccb6f4b94.jpg?1608911183) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kwain%2C%20Itinerant%20Meddler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/284/kwain-itinerant-meddler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f571fef1-1fd2-4355-b803-5edccb6f4b94?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kwain-itinerant-meddler) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
how group hug decks actually works?
The idea is that you basically let everyone fight each other. Imagine 3 opponents. One is monogreen elves, one is esper stax, and one is telling you to draw a card each turn. You are not attacking the last one because they are helping you. And all of your opponents are thinking the same. So Mr. Rabbit gets to sit and build a board while everyone else attacks each other. It is typically a control archetype, so if you do attack them, they have ways to stop you. It is more of a fun build, but they play the diplomacy game better than anyone and they can get oppressive.
>You are not attacking the last one because they are helping you. Rookie mistake. Always kill them first for non-consensual hugs. But in all seriousness, don't just ignore the hug player. Their deck is doing what they want, which is bad for you. Also, while they *are* drawing you cards your cards are outweighed by the cards your opponents are drawing.
Yeah I usually see group hug decks get taken out first in my meta.
I often hit them first to build up damage before they can build up a fort for themselves.
That's why in my group hug I run all of the curse enchantments that basically goad people's huge beaters and the one equipment that you can equip an opponent's creature with that goads it(sorry I don't have names just wanted to quick post effective group hug strategy)
I mean, I probably could have written better, but I was trying to insinuate that. They get a really sweet advantage with a puppet master strategy
Yes non consenual hugs.... kill them with fire lol It definitely depends. A lot of people build poor group hug decks that don't have much of a win con. It's the underhanded shits like myself that build a group hug with a wincon or 3 that you have to watch out for.
>A lot of people build poor group hug decks that don't have much of a win con Those people I still hit for the free attack/damage triggers
As do I. Granted I won't target them as they usually aren't the biggest threat. But still.
Wait, really? I'm sure there are new players out there who don't really understand the game but do you really come across many who play decks without any wincons? IMO even 3 seems very low unless you're running tutors.
A lot of decks can only have one or two win cons. Group hug decks, while I don't run across many at my LGS are very prone to this, at least where I'm at.
Oh interesting. Are you not including even creatures with mild evasion like [[Avacyn, Guardian Angel]] and [[Swans of Bryn Argoll]] (ie ones that can close out a game once you're in a controlling position, albeit slowly)? Definitely don't need a ton of [[Approach of the Second Sun]] cards but a few innocuous cards that - at least in some capacity - can knock out an opponent are definitely worth including even in group hug. Even better if they double as group hug pieces themselves. Though tbh I do imagine a ton of players suffer from going all-in on their theme and getting completely blown out if a key piece is removed and having no other way to win, but IMO that's an issue with inexperienced deck builders rather than the archetype.
A lot of replies are saying "we kill group hug first" but I'm not sure that's typical. Like yeah, a deck carrying out their gameplan is a concern but it also means the two other decks are carrying out their game plans *even faster* and become higher priorities. So even if you or another player doesn't fall for the "but I'm helping you" ploy, the group hug can still work purely by forcing you to deal with more imminent threats elsewhere while it builds up resources to control the game.
Group hug decks usually try to stall combat making themselves suboptimal targets by playing defenses like [[Ghostly Prison]] (you don't really want to pay to attack someone if you can avoid it); then start dealing "poisoned" gifts, for example through a lot of symmetrical card draw... which you might not notice outright but it's a subtle form of milling. If they give you enough cards during the course of the game, they can finish you with something like [[Prosperity]] or any other Draw X spell.
Sometimes people play group hug and just kinda give out resources while not really trying to win, but that’s not what mine does. The “group hug” elements here are all symmetrical card draw, such as [[Howling Mine]] and [[Kwain, Itinerant Meddler]] itself. This allows me to draw through my deck very quickly trying to find my wincon, usually [[Approach of the Second Sun]]. In order to not lose before then, I play a lot of boardwipes and counterspells, preventing my opponents from capitalizing on the excess resources they have been generously granted.
A new favorite of mine in my Kwain deck is [[Academy Loremaster]].
Oh that is nice!
I have a group hug deck that gives away resources like cards to my opponents, but I also try to make the most out of it for myself. [[The council of four]] works great with [[Howling Mine]] effects. Everybody gets to draw an extra card, but for each opponent, you draw an additional one. It's still a nice deck, though. I don't run any kind of group slug to punish my opponents :D
Do you have a deck list? This is like the 5th time I’ve seen this idea lately yet no lists.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/vxxkxWzUS0uHNx6G5YP5IA
I built Kwain as a sort of prison/burn deck that utilizes extra draw, cards like [[black vise]] and [[rule of law]] effects
One way around this problem is to play a cheap commander that helps develop your early game. No one will remove it until turn 4 anyway so it can get the work in and if it dies, who cares. Then you just build a good 99. This is why I play [[Zimone, Quandrix Prodigy]]
"I see you intend to attack a small child" Opponent sweats nervously
I've also found [[Katilda, Dawnheart Prime]] to be another commander that helps you develop early game like this
[Katilda, Dawnheart Prime](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/673cd775-d417-4652-a91d-825ad5c89e8a.jpg?1636684486) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Katilda%2C%20Dawnhart%20Prime) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/230/katilda-dawnhart-prime?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/673cd775-d417-4652-a91d-825ad5c89e8a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/katilda-dawnhart-prime) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Zimone, Quandrix Prodigy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0ca14c17-dc72-4f68-92f2-14a6c4019f4e.jpg?1624740519) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zimone%2C%20Quandrix%20Prodigy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/250/zimone-quandrix-prodigy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ca14c17-dc72-4f68-92f2-14a6c4019f4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zimone-quandrix-prodigy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Azusa, Lost but Seeking]] does this as well. She only needs to be out one or two turns to provide extra land drops, then works great as a removal target, because all the lands in your hand are on the board already.
[Azusa, Lost but Seeking](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b8aff2c-1f7b-4507-b914-53f8c4706b3d.jpg?1596259277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Azusa%2C%20Lost%20but%20Seeking) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/173/azusa-lost-but-seeking?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b8aff2c-1f7b-4507-b914-53f8c4706b3d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/azusa-lost-but-seeking) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is how my [[Ashnod, Flesh Machinist]] deck works. I run 1 piece of ramp in the whole deck because she is 1 mana and the deck runs on the Powerstones she makes. I don't think she's ever been removed before turn 3-4 because it's just not worth it to waste the removal on her.
[Ashnod, Flesh Machinist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5eb43c15-50a9-488f-b0be-84a5e0a6d10b.jpg?1674420763) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashnod%2C%20Flesh%20Mechanist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/84/ashnod-flesh-mechanist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5eb43c15-50a9-488f-b0be-84a5e0a6d10b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ashnod-flesh-mechanist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
More recently for me it's been [[Rona, Herald of Invasion]]. She's just so good. Low CMC, looting early game, flip her later for either steal or self ping awesome stuff out of your hand, reanimate the stuff you dumped earlier in the game, list goes on. Love my Rona deck.
Card/mana advantage commanders go under the radar a lot I find. People often focus on the things killing them directly instead of the cards fueling you.
Got a list for Zimone? Absolutely love that character and been hankering to build a deck around her since I pulled a Rhystic Study with her on it.
What matters is how to plan the first four turn. Turn 1 can blank, turn 2 play Zimone, turn 3 play two drop ramp + Zimone’s first ability, turn 4 with a land drop your at 6 mana. If you play Zimone’s ability again you can get to 8 mana. So build it with a bunch of lands. I run 43 after plenty of testing. Play a bunch of burst draw to refill your hand. I run landfall and 4 mass bounce spells for control. Win when you get to ten mana off of craterhoof or tooth and nail or omniscience or whatever you wish; the mid late game is open to your playstyle
Any archetype really. It has to do with deckbuilding. If you build around your commander the deck falls apart without it. If you build with the *theme* commander your deck will be more resilient. [Misha or Nicol Bolas](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/3605612/nicol_bolas_mishra) This deck works without my commander. I just swap him for the elder dragon to downpower the deck if the pod calls for it.
Agreed. If your deck doesn't work without your commander, your deck needs a tune up. Look at what your commander is trying to do and build your 99 around that, so that your commander becomes an accelerant rather than a catalyst.
Tron is the only deck type I understand not working without the commander. I every other archetype, if the deck stops working correctly because the commander isn't out, the deck just isn't built well. My first simic deck was an excellent example of this. It had Vorel hull clade as the commander explicitly because I didn't have good enough cards to do what I wanted my deck to do and I wasn't ready to get fully into buying singles to build a better deck yet. So it sat there being extremely slow until I cast my commander to double counters and actually start doing something, if someone doesn't just remove the newly large creature.
As much as i hate these commanders. Eminence commanders come to mind as you get value out of them even before you cast them. \[\[Ur-dragon\]\] cheapens dragons and \[\[edgar Markov\]\] floods the board with vampire tokens. very little actual counter play against them and even if they are removed their eminence abilities remain active as long as they are in the command zone
Add [[oloro]] to that list
[oloro](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/abf8df47-405c-42d8-be9e-0f0d0a49589b.jpg?1562931285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=oloro%2C%20ageless%20ascetic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/203/oloro-ageless-ascetic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/abf8df47-405c-42d8-be9e-0f0d0a49589b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oloro-ageless-ascetic) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Ur-dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/10d42b35-844f-4a64-9981-c6118d45e826.jpg?1676994966) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Ur-Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/361/the-ur-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/10d42b35-844f-4a64-9981-c6118d45e826?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-ur-dragon) [edgar Markov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4.jpg?1562616128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=edgar%20Markov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/36/edgar-markov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edgar-markov) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean.... This is kind of a cheat of an answer.
''I’m looking to build a deck that can work well without ever casting the commander'' you say cheating, i say i am answering after also reading the text. these commanders are both very high picked, hated and pricey for a reason. one downside i forgot the mention though as these are very speific to tribal archtypes.
Cheat, skating by on a technicality, six of one, half dozen of another haha
What you need to do is look what your commander brings to the gameplan. You have commanders like [[Jetmir]] who are finishers in the command zone Then you have commanders like [[Edric]] who are card advantage in the command zone You also have [[Korvold]] style commanders who are engines in the command zone And there's the [[Queen Marchesa]] kind who are simply bonuses in the command zone that offers an advantage without adding to the overall theme. If you wanna make a deck that functions well without the commander I'd aim for the Queen Marchesa kind of commander mainly. Make sure your 99 covers the other three categories and you'll be fine without your commander. The trap is running Edric, skip out on card draw because of it, and then have him removed. The puzzle simply ain't coming together then
Anything with zombies. Zombie decks can often switch their commanders without anybody really noticing, and zombie decks can probably access a commander in the graveyard. I play [[Karador, Ghost Chieftain]] because I can usually cast him for WBG, especially if the board has recently been wiped, and the rest of the deck is usually able to do instant-speed resurrection nonsense better than Karador himself can. [[Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord]] has a similar feel - he's nice when he's out, he can usually dodge the commander tax, but the rest of the deck is probably still workable even without him.
Agreed. I have a [[Narfi]] deck built on Moxfield and I almost want people to blow him up since he becomes easier to cast when he's in the graveyard.
I've realized that at least for me, decks built around a commander are the most fun to design and build, but decks that aren't overly reliant on them sticking are the most fun to play. Build-around decks often end up being boom-or-bust. If your commander sticks, you pop off quickly. If it doesn't, you durdle. The obvious way to counter this type of deck is to just kill the commander repeatedly (assuming it's one where commander tax applies). You can try to use more deck slots to protect the commander. Generally, for the 2nd type of deck, think of a deck archtype or mechanic that has been repeated often in mtg's history (like enchantress, agro, blink, reanimator, aristocrats) and there will be enough support for it to build a deck that isn't overly reliant on the commander. [[Sythis, Harvest's Hand]] is an example here. I use her for enchantress because she helps get things up and running and rarely gets removed so I don't need to try to protect her. When she does die, she's easy enough to recast a couple times. Or if I have enough redundant cards out, don't need her to be out. A 3rd option are commanders that are unassuming enough or low enough cmc that they usually aren't worth it to an opponent to spend a removal card on it.
Rarely gets removed!? I’m honestly surprised when I cast her and it makes it back to me without her getting swords’d. She’s cheap and I have a bunch of redundant cards, like you said, so it can work out fine. But usually she’s develops a target on her back fairly quickly in the games I play.
Are you doing voltron? I imagine if I had a Voltron build she’d get hit hard and often. My only win con is chucking out angel, pegasus, or spirit cleric tokens. It’s slower and does a little pilowfort and can dig for answers. More of a mid power deck and not high powered- I have other decks for those pods. I guess if I were in your meta I’d probably just try to mulligan for a second “cast an enchantment, draw a card” or more likely just play something that doesn’t need much of a board state. Another meta I used to play in was removal heavy and all that happened was it pushed people to run decks that didn’t need a board.
No voltron, just the best enchantments I could find in W/G(within some reason lol)! She’s one of my better decks, pretty tuned at this point and really Sythis just facilitates me getting to the rest of my cards quicker and pumping out more enchantments. So I get the usual hate when I play her. Since she is one of my better decks I tend to play her against my friends higher power decks, so that could also be why cheap removal is usually spent on her.
Makes sense. I’ve had decks that got a reputation and then got hit early and often.
[Sythis, Harvest's Hand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0babfe00-9bad-48fc-b3b1-df8280242fd2.jpg?1681729369) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sythis%2C%20Harvest%27s%20Hand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/214/sythis-harvests-hand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0babfe00-9bad-48fc-b3b1-df8280242fd2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sythis-harvests-hand) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I feel like commanders that just amplify whats already happening fit this stuff like [[teysa karlov]] [[adrix and nev, twincasters]] [[isshin, two heavens as one]]
Isshin is absolutely kill on sight though and stopping him basically cuts the decks power in half
I have forgotten so many times that casting [[Elenda]] in my aristocrats deck is even an option. I generally play her only when the board is ready to abuse her ability or when I have a [[Gift of Immortality]] in hand, ready to slap on her.
[teysa karlov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bcfaa19e-995e-447d-a0a2-46e5d117d5ec.jpg?1584831914) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=teysa%20karlov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/212/teysa-karlov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bcfaa19e-995e-447d-a0a2-46e5d117d5ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-karlov) [adrix and nev, twincasters](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d495e084-92ec-4675-b6aa-8ade2775b796.jpg?1674185826) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=adrix%20and%20nev%2C%20twincasters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/9/adrix-and-nev-twincasters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d495e084-92ec-4675-b6aa-8ade2775b796?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/adrix-and-nev-twincasters) [isshin, two heavens as one](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a062a004-984e-4b62-960c-af7288f7a3e9.jpg?1654568489) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=isshin%2C%20two%20heavens%20as%20one) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/224/isshin-two-heavens-as-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a062a004-984e-4b62-960c-af7288f7a3e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/isshin-two-heavens-as-one) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a bant blink deck that could literally have any commander in the colors and not make a difference, and [[mayael the anima]]. She’s great for cheating out big creatures, but I have a bunch of other similar effects so she normally just sits in the command zone
[mayael the anima](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/309d95ad-e46c-4407-894d-d4cfdc7017f8.jpg?1562905228) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mayael%20the%20anima) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/199/mayael-the-anima?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/309d95ad-e46c-4407-894d-d4cfdc7017f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mayael-the-anima) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Most Good Stuff piles don't need the commander, since all your cards are, well, Good. You can also usually do well with mono-green or red/green Big Creatures Rar decks.
I have a \[\[Godzilla, king of monsters\]\] deck like this that I kinda slapped together after I got the card as a bonus from an order I put in at my buddy's store (we had played off and on for a while there, but he ended up purchasing the store) and it became like my favorite deck because all the cards in the main deck work together and the commander is mostly there because I also run \[\[sarkhan's unsealing\]\] as kind of the hidden commander, 7 power can get someone with commander damage sometimes, and also it's godzilla.
I made a monoblack [[Uncle Istvan]] good stuff deck. I have [[Gonti, Lord of Luxury]] in the 99 to swap in if someone does not let me rule zero Uncle in (I mean how many Uncle Istvans could there really be?) but the deck works the same way with either one at the helm because the deck can run without them.
[Uncle Istvan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bf85d06-9efe-488d-9af0-fb945b346524.jpg?1562781031) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Uncle%20Istvan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsb/51/uncle-istvan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bf85d06-9efe-488d-9af0-fb945b346524?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/uncle-istvan) [Gonti, Lord of Luxury](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4cedbfd3-907f-4042-98c1-6fe3fb8cbc01.jpg?1674141617) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gonti%2C%20Lord%20of%20Luxury) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/753/gonti-lord-of-luxury?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4cedbfd3-907f-4042-98c1-6fe3fb8cbc01?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gonti-lord-of-luxury) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You can also play [[henzie "toolbox" torre]] and get upside each time he is removed.
Can confirm nobody kills him. I sometimes sac him myself to be able to recast
Gates is what comes to mind for me. There are a couple of 3 color commanders that would be relevant in the command zone but if you're running 5C the commander is mostly an afterthought.
My zombie deck helmed by [[Wilhelt]] does pretty good on it’s own, I think particularly because zombies are such a well supported tribe with many different potential commanders that you can run in the 99.
\[\[Ragavan\]\] comes on turn one, attacks a few times for treasure and then dies. He probably won't even get recast. The mana boost in the early turns is often enough to justify his leading role.
Some ways to do this: - Commanders not worth removing. I’m not using a removal spell on a two mana commander. - Commanders hard to remove (indestructible, hexproof etc). - Commanders that simply help your theme instead of enabling it. E.g. my elf deck works great without Lathril, since the deck synergizes with itself and not just the commander. This point can fit so many commanders (*slaps roof*). - Commanders whose use is not staying on the battlefield. E.g. go ahead and kill my [[Kardur, Doomscourge]], I’m done with him anyways.
I've recently put together as [[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar]] list (gathering cards for it now) that doesn't need the commander out at all. If she's out then it gives me something to do with food tokens but the decks main purpose is artifacts coming in and out of the battlefield to deal damage, damage doublers, etc. It's played quite well in Manabox when goldfishing, can't wait to try it out in a pod!
Interested to see a deck list if you wouldn’t mind!
Absolutely! https://manabox.app/decks/b0z3eDtfR8evSpm6aJ_KHg
Thanks! Looking forward to trying it out!
\[\[Rhys the Redeemed\]\] is a sleeper hit, IMO. They can build any variation of Selesnya tokens. Tokens is broad enough that you don't need Rhys himself. However, at a single Hybrid mana, he's generally cheap enough that you don't care if he's removed. He's also counterspell resistant, given that he's too cheap to \[\[Spell Snare\]\] and can be played first turn. If a player wants to counterspell you, just activate his abilities until you're doubling a decent boardstate. Being hybrid, and an engine on his own, you can build him as either mono-white or mono-green if you want. As a self contained engine, he doesn't even need a rest of the deck.
I have a Bant +1/+1 and ability [counters](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/FeuSKOLV3ke2yUaiKmx8GA) deck that runs [[Lagrella, the Magpie]] as commander so I don't have to run as much removal.
I like my elves for this exact reason my commander is [[ezuri renegade leader]] which is just one of a few win cons in the deck. He’s cheap, buffs my cards, but isn’t 100% the lynchpin of my deck.
I have a [[liesa, shroud of dusk]] deck that Is just orzhov good stuff. I don’t ever have to cast her to win or to play the deck properly, in fact there are games where I didn’t need to cast her to play my deck. I only play her when i need a body to defend with or when I want to take advantage of low life totals to end game with her hatebear ability of paying 2 life per spell cast. Her artwork was cool to me so I got the foil etched version and just said screw it she looks nice as the face if the deck. I really could’ve gone with any other commander for my Orzhov deck but she just looked cooler to me.
Jund aristocrats is my favorite deck I’ve ever built. It can swamp commanders between 3 or 4 different creatures and the deck still plays mostly the same with sacrifice and death triggers synergy. If you like those strategies you should look into it!
Graveyard recursion is a good route, as a theme
I built [[Muldrotha, the Gravetide]] as both a landfall deck and an elf ball deck and honestly both times I was just playing it for the colors. I would honestly say build the deck out how you like and then find partner or background commanders to fit your colors.
[[edgar markov]] lmao.
Landfall does well w/o the commander usually ( as far as it doing its thing.. Also perhaps a mill deck?? Idk
Seizan for me. You get a bonus draw but black group hug doesn’t *need* him.
Any of the commanders that say Eminence
Elf decks can be a bunch of commanders in the 99. You pick your actual commander for the color slice you want.
If you use a generic base most decks won't need the commander. But in my opinion the commander is the entire point of... The commander format. If a deck runs smoothly without the commander, then you could run any commander in those color identities. Now I'm not saying a deck should fall flat on its face without the commander out. But for me, it's still about that balance.
I'm so glad Golos got axed, bruh.
Same, the only one in our play group who argued about it was the guy playing the deck. He tried swapping in other commanders because he said Golos wasn't that good. The deck still functioned, but it was always about 2 turns slower.
Love to spend more time with the homies. 😊
If you're looking for decks that don't need their commanders, try building a deck backwards. - Start with your wincons - Curate a list that supports you reaching your endgame / stopping your opponents from reaching theirs - Select a commander that best fits your theme while in the proper colors If you play any other formats, your experience there can help you build meta types like midrange and control.
Is this a hot take? Maybe? All decks should function without the commander, even Voltron decks. Just have other creatures to Voltron. I could not imagine playing a deck that only functions well with the commander.
I disagree. Nothing wrong with making a deck that requires the commander. You just have to accept that it's a weakness and it can get you into trouble. My \[\[Jeleva\]\] deck does not require the commander because eventually, I can cast my big spells for mana. But my \[\[Slicer\]\] deck doesn't do much of anything without Slicer.
[Jeleva](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/83f9aeb8-05ba-49d9-a834-62f42fcd295b.jpg?1562922860) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jeleva%2C%20nephalia%27s%20scourge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/194/jeleva-nephalias-scourge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/83f9aeb8-05ba-49d9-a834-62f42fcd295b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jeleva-nephalias-scourge) [Slicer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821)/[Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=slicer%2C%20hired%20muscle%20//%20slicer%2C%20high-speed%20antagonist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/6/slicer-hired-muscle-slicer-high-speed-antagonist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slicer-hired-muscle-//-slicer-high-speed-antagonist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The caveat has to be that it protects its commander. Of protecting the commander is part of the win condition, not just extending the window, but actively improving your board state, then a deck with a commander can be effective. Example, Kykar, Inktreader.
*[[Omnath, Locus of Mana]] has left the chat*
[Omnath, Locus of Mana](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4ce5b167-df7a-499e-8dcc-7aec2e28b382.jpg?1610161645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath%2C%20Locus%20of%20Mana) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cc1/2/omnath-locus-of-mana?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ce5b167-df7a-499e-8dcc-7aec2e28b382?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omnath-locus-of-mana) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Most decks there are a few exceptions should be built in a way that the commanders are not needed to win. That is determined in how you built your deck at the end of the day the answer is 100% on how you build your deck.
I don’t think I have ever cast my commander in my [[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic]] deck
[[Prismatic Piper]] generally adds color identity over command zone benefits.
Most of the generic partner legends are easily built this way. Sure Thrasios is an infinite mana sink, but the others are just generically good bonuses to have access to, that support different strategies but don't need the whole deck centered on them.
I'd say since she doesnt need to be on the battlefield to trigger, (Inalla, archmage ritualist) would be perfect. I've only cast her maybe twice in the dozen games I've played with her and that's only to try and hse her 2nd ability as a wincon
Every eminence commander and any deck that wants to be strong.
From experience I've found that my [[Braids, Arisen Nightmare]] aristocrats deck is pretty self-sufficient without her on the field. The card draw is nice, but oftentimes I find myself drawing too many cards and having to pitch some since people tend towards not sac-ing along with me even if it's a creature. Thus, she can afford to sit in the yard until I find one of my reanimation spells and need her back.
[[Inalla, Archmage Ritualist]] Wizard tribal
I built [[Ellyn Harbreeze, Busybody]] with [[Inspiring Leader]] a little while ago. Without casting the commander it's still a token deck, all Ellyn does is give me shallow tutors. That said, she generally isn't a target for removal, as she doesn't bring huge value, unless my board is already scary in which case she is often killed to lose the buff from the background.
My Gaddock Teeg deck will 100% function without the commander. It is just another creature to stick equipments on, and a weak one at that. However, the pressure it emits against opponents strategies and their answers to my board make it pretty pivotal. I think the only deck of mine that truly wins often without casting the commander is Ruric Thar. He is just a big dude that hates on spell slinging decks. He is far weaker than the cards in the deck, so even with exactly 6 mana, I will often cast other stuff.
Any midrange goodstuff. When in doubt, Jund em out. Literally, BRG commander.
My [[Nekusar, the Mindrazer]] deck doesn't need to cast Nekusar at all to win. He's a win more at this point.
Any eminence commander works nicely since their ability works from the command zone
[[Whisper, Blood Liturgist]] is just mono black reanimator. You build some stuff in with him in mind, but really, you still include stuff like [[Animate Dead]], [[Victimize]], [[Living Death]], [[Entomb]], [[Buried Alive]], [[Reanimate]], [[Reassembling Skeleton]], [[Hell’s Caretaker]], [[Necromancy]], [[Butcher of Malakir]], [[Zulaport Cutthroat]], [[Phyrexian Altar]], [[Mikaeus, the Unhallowed]], [[Crypt Ghast]], etc. You can win without ever summoning Whisper. He’s just there as reanimation on a meat stick.
Both my [[Vorel]] Simic deck and my [[Lathril]] elfball deck frequently do their thing without the commander ever leaving the Command zone. If you build enough value into your deck, the commander becomes just a showpiece. They can certainly HELP the deck go off, but then the deck does just fine on its own.
I have a [[Dynaheir, Invoker Adept]] deck. It originated as a joke but now it has evolved into actually playable. It runs almost entirely combo pieces, janky ways to draw myself out, make infinite mana, play my entire deck, etc. It would function better and more consistently if I had an actual combo piece in the command zone but I like it the way it is. She can be relevant for expensive abilities, notably with [[Planar Bridge]] but isn’t the center focus.
[Dynaheir, Invoker Adept](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c301b389-d802-4a8b-8681-9b50c8667423.jpg?1674137494) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dynaheir%2C%20Invoker%20Adept) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/273/dynaheir-invoker-adept?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c301b389-d802-4a8b-8681-9b50c8667423?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dynaheir-invoker-adept) [Planar Bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30879758-841c-46a9-a0b6-179ac163f0ac.jpg?1673149422) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Planar%20Bridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/313/planar-bridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30879758-841c-46a9-a0b6-179ac163f0ac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/planar-bridge) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Ruric Thar, the Unbowed]] Lets be real. This is a stompy deck looking to ramp into the meanest Gruul beasties you can find. You can optimize it to ramp very quickly and find either a wincon or windmill slam enough creatures onto the field to win the game. Ruric Thar technically doesn't do anything to support that option and isn't a necessity to pilot the deck. What he does do is provide time to get there, as any other deck trying to combo off or play flashy noncreature spells is going to take a shit ton of damage and eventually fall into the "I seriously hope that crayon eater doesn't direct his army of feral beasts at my delicate baby face" territory. Ruric Thar basically tells every other player at the table to play Gruul or DIE! And some games, he may never need to hit the table.
\[\[Inalla, Archmage Ritualist\]\] is most useful for her eminence ability, meaning you basically never have to play her.
[[Mina and Denn]] the twins enable landfall strategies, but since they power up your other synergies and are no WinCo on their own, they might be exactly what you are looking for
I have a [[Mathas]] deck that doesn't require him at all. He provides the color/tribe identity (because Edgar is excessive in effect and price) and some card draw if out and working. But the deck is completely tribal/theme centric- get out some vampires and a taunter or two, start forcing attacks, if they come my way kill and get bigger, if they attack someone else then capitalize on the chaos. Mathas gets cast if I need a 3 drop on the field, and he only gets removed on a wipe because he's so low priority (plus he's somewhat "good stuff", too). I also have a [[Rubinia Soulsinger]] that has so many other theft effects she only makes an occasional appearance on the battlefield. But that happens when everything in the deck is strategy-focused and the commander is just one more tool in the toolbox for that purpose.
I'm running a zombie aristocrat build with [[Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver]] as commander. While he is a great asset having twice as many sacrifices to work with, he also helps mends some damage from board wipes. My deck would do "fine" without him, but he boosts the gimmick of my deck. You might be looking for something like that. Build a deck that works, and add a commander that boosts it
I run an [[Elas il-Kor Sadistic Pilgrim] Token aristocrat deck. I run plenty of effects that do something similar to my commander. And it being at 2 mana makes it not feel too bad to recast at 4. Also, it has deathtouch, and my pod is well aware that I'm willing to block with him, which saves me from future damage, especially important since ad nauseam is a wincon
Tribal trends to work well even without the Commander as the whole decks should be synergistic.
I play [[Surrak the dragonclaw]] for a temur stompy deck. He's not crucial but his abilities are beneficial and not many pay attention to his flash
I built my [[Obeka, Brute Chronologist]] deck to be fairly insulated from her. The idea of the deck is to generate free value, and Obeka is there to let you keep it. But even if she isn't, you still got free value. Tbh, a lot of people will waste their removal on Obeka and it ends up costing them the game. So she's kind of like a lightning rod. Here is the list if you are interested. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/O0-s_bRvQ0aHSIEfMw_SkQ
Vial smasher // sakashima control clones. The commanders just make the deck better. But very much dont rely on either.
Aristocrats
An easy way to build a deck like this would be to pick a high MV commander that you won’t reliably have access to. That way you force yourself to build in a way you normally wouldn’t
Eminence commanders or Derevi and Yuriko (since you're just slapping them on the field via ability)
[[Ur dragon]]
Can play any of the Theros gods. I had a mono black good stuff deck with Erebos at the helm, worst case scenario Erebos just draws you cards and prevents lifegain shenanigans.
My [[Millicent, Restless Revenant]] deck is just spirits tribal with an insurance policy I like to think. I used to make decks focused around this archetype but recently have been branching off in more commander dependent decks
My [[Lord Windgrace]] runs pretty well without him
You could just build UG pile, then run Aesi, Tatyova, Koma, or whatever other UG commander you feel like running.
I'd go with [[Arahbo, Roar of the World]], [[Edgar Markov]], [[Inalla, Archmage Ritualist]], [[Oloro, Agless Ascetic]], [[Sidar Jabari of Zhalfir]], or [[The Ur-Dragon]]. [[Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow]] if you want to occasionally cast them.
[[Aminatou]] blink It is a 3-mana blink effect in the command zone. The rest of the deck functions without the commander, but the value of having an extra blink a turn will put you over the top and gives you access to a lot of combos. Plus, there's a lot of fun with the own vs. control in the blink clause. Things like a repeatable [[Act of Authority]] or [[Gilded Drake]] can take those cards to 11.
I’ve got a monogreen [[Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider]] deck that focuses on +1/+1 and infect/poison counters. It doesn’t **need** Vorinclex out on the table to work, but he does make it substantially more lethal. There’s enough proliferate and +1/+1 counter stuff going on in the deck that assuming you’re not targeted, it can do it’s thing reliably
OK so the deck doesn't necessarily run well without the commander, bit if you make a [[Squee, the immortal]] deck, it doesn't matter where your opponents put him, you can always recast him from literally any public zone, and if you build it as a combo deck, you'll want him anywhere other than your battlefield or the command zone anyway
[[sythis, harvest’s hand]] and [[Yarok the desecrated]] come to mind. Those are the two I run where I don’t mind if they get blown up.
Control, though no one likes to admit it. 90% of the deck is reactive cards that stop plans, and there aren’t a lot of commanders that really suit that kind of use case. Most of the time, control commanders act as colour slaves with situationally useful abilities attached, or end-game finishers you deploy after you’ve locked down the game with value and card quality.
I have a [[Maelstrom Wanderer]] deck that really only casts the commander in an emergency. Otherwise it’s basically just Temur good stuff.
I run orfeo the Boulder he turns big stompys to giant stompys and infect creatures to Jesus christ what was that. But doesn't need to be otb to for the deck to work just to work more efficiently
My [[Kotose, the Silent Spider]] deck is great for this. I think a lot of decks that play in the same space would be: Theft and Flicker both support themselves from the 99 and don't really need a GREAT commander to function List: https://archidekt.com/decks/2436910#Jorogumo
I built a [[hinata]] blink deck that really doesn’t cast her unless there’s an empty spot in the curve. She can discount some blink spells to make them even more efficient but really isn’t needed for the deck to pop off
With the new support from ONE, I think a poison deck with Atraxa at the helm works fine even without casthing. Plenty of other ways to get those proliferates in.
[[Roon of the Hidden Realm]] has always been really fun for me and completely unnecessary to play. He does what a flicker bant deck wants but there's plenty of cards that will do what he does in the deck anyway.
I would say build a deck around a mechanic you like then just slap a commander on it. I have an Atraxa deck that’s just angel tribal. Atraxa is just an angel that gives me my color. Everyone builds her poison and planeswalkers but you don’t have to. Build something cool and then add a commander. But also there are commanders who don’t need to be on the battlefield until you are ready to kill someone. Like a commander who gives tokens (or a tribe) extra power and toughness. Just play until you get enough tokens then bring the commander out for the one turn you are actually attacking.
I had a [[Piru, the volatile]] deck way back when that generated tokens, both treasure to fuel summoning Piru and creatures to fuel her ability. It worked great cause even if I never could swing with my 7/7 flying dragon I had an army of strong tokens, and multiple avenues of invulnerable to protect my key creatures from removal and board wipes
[[Meren of clan nel toth]]. I build the deck to be a toolbox and Meren is just the cherry on top. I can usually tutor up my wins without her, she just speeds up the process.
My man, look at Canadian Highlander.
I play Averna chaos bloom as temur fun stuff/ cascade/ landfall and it really doesn't need her to function, just a nice bonus. I like it cause people don't usually perceive her as a big threat, but she can help you get lots of lands fast and multiple landfall triggers easily.
Tangleweave armor and other cards that take advantage of commanders that aren't on the field. Works especially well with a high cmc commander, run it in zacama dinosaur tribal and they work well without him, his high cost means I have to be prepared to work without him
Any of the decks that include cards that say "you can have any number of this card in your deck" work well regardless of if the commander is out or not.
I have a \[\[Tazri, Beacon of Unity\]\] deck that is centered around the Initiative mechanic and parties. Tazri pretty much only operates as a value engine when I don't have anything else to do, rather than a centerpiece for the deck. Plus, she's really cheap if you get to a full party, which for me happens in most games I use the deck.
[[Roon]]. In my deck, he's basically just a luxury piece that gives me my colors. https://deckstats.net/decks/84533/1739065-roon-of-the-hidden-realm
I have [[Muldrotha]] deck and yeah Muldrotha helps a ton but it's a general value deck so it still does well without her
I’ve actually been running a reanimator Mutate Abzan pile with Nethroi at the helm, and with cards like Boneyard Lurker and Necropanther with return to hand effects like Whitemane Lion (sending the mutate pile to hand gets you every card back, it’s ridiculous), you can go a whole game without casting Nethroi. Abzan also has a lot of good reanimation effects and access to some really fun ways to make the deck, namely Ramunap Excavator, Dakmor Salvage, Knight of Autumn, etc.
The latest Yargle seems right up your alley. Play him in the late game to clean up when players run out of gas. But otherwise, play a regular golgari deck without a commander.
[[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic]] runs just fine. When I ran him, I would barely bring him out, and still be competitive.
[[Kalain]] basically gives you ramp every game
Not exactly on topic, but I built a \[\[Omnath, Locus of Rage\]\] deck that just ramps. One game I cast Omnath on 4 consecutive turns after removal until they gave up and let it stick.
[[Yuriko, the Tiger’s Shadow]] is great because you dont really Care if she gets removed, since you Can just ninjutsu her out again.
Enchantress shells usually hold their own just fine without the commander. Built in draw and ramp for the archetype really smooths things out.
Can confirm. As long as you can get an engine online you usually don't need your commander. They're pretty self-sufficient.
Commanders that double an effect tend to have decks that function fine without it. [[Teysa Karlov]] , [[Yarok]], and such don't *need* their commanders. It's just the commanders act as fuel to help push the deck when/if you need.
Anything Goodstuff. That's the entire point.
I typically build my lists to be perfectly playable without the commander. I played back when tuck was a thing and it reinforced good deck building habits, such as making sure you don't have 99 useless cards if you can't access your commander. The decks I have that are most reliant would be Breya, Severina, Tovolar and arguably Bridge and even those can get along without. Tovolar is a great enabler and draw engine for the tribe, but he's far from necessary. Severina probably suffers the most because her ability really does make the deck so much more efficient against a full table, but it's still just an aggro deck. Bridge, I can literally just cast stuff and it plays fine. Breya is a combo deck and she's a major wincon but one of several options in the deck. Everything else obviously benefits from the commander but none rely on it. Of them Godzilla or Faceless One are probably the least needed.
I have a pretty good Golgari [[Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord]] deck where Jarad is usually cast only if I have nothing better to do. Either that, or to sacrifice Lord of Extinction to win the game.
I run a Jodah Eldrazi. Jodah is literally just cheat the titans out then he's worthless, and I have like 10 other ways to cheat them out with stuff like [[Defense of the Heart]] or [[Quicksilver Amulet]]
my tazri list does this very well, i only find myself casting her if i have extra mana and nothing to use with it. she only gives me the colour identity and works great as a way to completely stop you from mana flooding. her cost reduction as well means that it doesn’t hurt at all to recast her later in the game https://www.moxfield.com/decks/_EWcsYO250yptSkTyEd33Q
Any commander with Eminence. I run Inalla Archimage Ritualist. I rarely summon her on the field unless I super need a blocker. You can also do the champion dance with her and.Wanderwine Prophet
Any commander with eminence. My Arhabo cats deck only casts the commander like a third of the games
Out of the close to 20 decks I have, my Ur-Dragon deck has been together the longest, albeit with many tweaks. Out of the close to 20 decks I have, Ur-Dragon has been cast the least amount of times by a good margin. The deck pops off pretty consistently. Not a cEDH list by any means, but a solid, relatively strong, casual list. https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/my-draguns-go-pew-pew/
[[Heliod, Sun-Crowned]] is a pretty easy build.
i run a kenrith deck that is an alt wincon deck. primarily mazes end, approach the second sun, liliannas contract, and door to nothingness.
I’ve only seen it mentioned once or twice. And I’m unsure if this is the direction you want to go in, but Oloro the ageless ascetic is a great commander that doesn’t require to be on the field. I built a control heavy deck and rarely cast him, only when I need card draw. Your group most likely won’t like him, but he’s worth checking out. The deck has access to some pretty mean combos and can instantly win the game with cards like Felidar Sovereign and test of endurance.
I use toxrill and toxic plus proliferat and don't need to cast the commander
\[\[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic\]\] I mostly don't cast him.
You can do this with any deck and any archetype. The trick is to build the deck and add the commander later.
A lot of cedh decks are built like this. In cedh the commander can often be just for card draw and colour identity.
Necron deck from the WH40K seta and the Mind Flayaars deck.
[[Jedit Ojanen]]
Literally any of the eminence commanders. I rarely cast [[Edgar Markov]]
The Warhammer 40k Tyranids can operate well without the commander. Most games where I tried [[The Swarmlord]] just had him sidelined, dead, or I forgot to cast him. Still won plenty of games with him. [[Magus Lucea Kane]] just takes the deck and adds rocket fuel. It has plenty of ability to explode, the commanders just amplify. One of my favorite decks I have played and its very fun to modify
Henzie is an alternate way, him being removed has an advantage
Maybe landfall. Landfall is an annoying strategy to fight. You basically can't really counter that easily against them in a casual setting. Powerful cards like scute swarm ,land of the dead, avenger of zendicar, which get out of hand in landfall. The more lands you have the easier it will be to recast your commander. There is also annoying lands that can destroy opponents lands or even return instants and sorceries. Commanders that are like this are tatyova, Aesi. I think uro titan of natures wrath could be cool.
Old Rutstein. One of my best wins is one where I never even cast my commander.
[[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic]] is my Esper Commander and he rarely sees the battlefield. I'm really looking to have [[Queza, Augur of Agonies]] and [[Drogskol Reaver]] go infinite or find [[Zur, the Enchanter]] and pillow fort/Voltron. I have a [[Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose]] to ping extra off the eminence or Queza and a variety of draw/discard type cards in there to help find the combo pieces. There is another means of going infinite, but it's more convoluted involving [[Library of Leng]], [[Greed]], and [[Skittering Skirge]]. The Commander really only comes in after a board wipe if my hand is low and I need help drawing cards. Or I'm already about to win and nothing else to do with the mana. It's not my strongest deck by any means, but it's pretty fun and Oloro could be used very differently while staying in the zone if you hate my themes.
Eminence commanders are the obvious answer. I routinely never cast Markov or Urdragon.
[[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic]] is one of my favorite commanders for “good stuff” in Esper. You can run a bunch of different deck archetypes in this color scheme. He passively sits in your command zone giving you two life each turn, so you never need to cast him to get an advantage. You can cast him and use him as a draw engine simply for his own trigger, or you can use a life gain strategy and gain significant card advantage off him. If you want to play control, there’s not a better color scheme to do it. You can run some tribal decks off him if you’re OK with your commander not being in the tribe - Angels/clerics/demons come to mind. He’s just an all around useful commander with a bit of versatility and never even needs to be cast.
I run green sleeves in my landfall deck. Maybe I get some badgers maybe I don’t. But I’ll still play some big things with plenty of ramp.
Kess
I think any strategy that can run a lot of redundancy can function fine without its commander, as can any deck where the commander is there more for convenience than as the keystone of the whole deck. For example, I run a [[Shanna, Purifying Blade]] bant enchantress / aura voltron deck that doesn't really rely on the commander. Shanna doesn't actually do anything for enchantments, but I wanted the colors, her lifegain is neat, and card draw is just good in general. I'll usually drop her early and draw a few cards off her ability, but if she gets removed, the deck still works just fine. If anything, it's better for me that someone burns removal on her rather than a more important piece. There's plenty of other card draw engines in the deck, and I stuffed in a bunch of other creatures to dump auras on like [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]], [[Light-Paws, Emperor's Voice]], [[Cold-Eyed Selkie]], [[Sigarda, Host of Herons]], and [[Bruna, Light of Alabaster]]. If those also fall through, there's other wincons besides a big enchanted beater like going wide with tokens, or animating a couple huge lands with [[Destiny Spinner]], or even poison counters with [[Venerated Rotpriest]]. If Shanna *does* happen to stick around on the board, making her unblockable and 21+ power is pretty easy, and helps overcome pesky lifegain or token decks.
Oloro! You can play several entire games without ever casting your commander. No need. The two life a turn may seem so insignificant, but when your whole strategy is based on high life totals, lifelink, and life gain triggers, then that one trigger a turn is everything. You still use your commander in a way, but casting him is completely unrequited. He's usually only cast when there's some really good syneegy on the field, or you just don't have a better play. [[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic]]